Should I call it Quits

[istat613033]

I have been married for 4 yrs with my wife 7, we have two kids ages 6 and 10. For the last couple of years I have been very unhappy in my marriage and so has my wife. I have been putting on this happy face for the last couple of years pretending that things are not as bad as they really were. My wife is a very aggresive, stubborn, forceful woman and I cannot take her anymore. She likes to nitpick everything, the first thing out of her mouth most days is something like well how come you did not do the laundry today. She will give me a lecture like I was a child who did not clean my room. She then will ask me why I do not want to spend time with her and what is wrong with me. I try to help out around the house but I work two part time jobs and am a fulltime college student. Most of the time i do things around the house not because I want( which i used to) but because I do not want to piss her off and start an argument. I have been thinking of divorce for awhile now but thought we should try counseling first which we are currently in, but it does not seem to help much. Just the stress of thinking about divorce and what happens to the kids and the life we have both built, I recently have been having strong feelings for someone at work. I have not cheated, but I feel happy when I am around her and we share so many common intrest( which me and my wife share very few). I do not know if the feelings I have for her are mutal but I am getting that vibe, because she always wants to be around me and of the hugs we share when we leave work and the things she says to me. The feelings I have for this woman are pushing me closer to divorce and I do not want to make a "The grass is always greener on the other side" decision.

Please send any thoughts or advice

Signed
Confused

[Annie2]

Hello,
Firstly and most importantly you must shelf all the feelings you have for this other woman. They are understandable. You feel rubbish in your role in your marriage. It is therefore a fact you are going to feel a high with someone (anyone for that matter) who does not share your marital problems. You probably feel 'free' from any of the negative feelings you have when you are with this other woman. Why? Because you havent shared marriage or a long time with her. You haven't shared life, you don't know her as well as you know your wife and vice versa. Therefore you are only experiencing surface feelings and not feelings based on reality.

Pheeooow just had to get that across to you. I am sorry to hear that you are feeling the way you are, it must be hard going. In a way I identified with your wife. I too was a nitpicker. But after much soul searching I realised it was because I was unhappy not because I disliked or didn't love my husband. I felt insecure and unloved and therefore needed to know what my husband was doing for ME. Every little thing counted as we had gone past the stage of flowers and so on. Instead, his making the bed right, tidying up all the little things that I thought might show he made an effort for me. I didn't notice the actual things he was doing. I too would ask why he didn't want to spend time with me. I felt needy and so unwanted. I just wonder if for some unknown reason to you that your wife feels the same. It takes a lot of soul searching to uncover why you behave like that and maybe with more counselling this may become apparent. You are after all talking about 7 years worth.

I can almost imagine how you and your wife are working against each other without realising it. You say you do things so as not to piss her off yet she will be acutely watching for you doing things because you want to for her. It's a vicious cycle. You can't want to while she is demanding. But in a way it's a chicken and egg situation. Someone has to give first.

You didn't mention what you felt for your wife. Do you love her, can you really imagine life without her and your family. To contemplate divorce on someone you haven't even had a relationship with is perhaps, if I dare say it, a bit risky. I completely understand how unhappy you must feel. But how happy would it make you to be with your wife and children if the current problems were sorted out. Is it worth giving it a chance?

I suspect that your wife is stuck in a rut, feeling insecure and becoming the 'nagging wife' that we women are so misunderstood as.

I hope I am not sounding unsympathetic because I do feel for you. If you have read any of my postings you will see that an 'affair' is far from the answer. I read your posting and I imagined you would have sounded like my husband 8 months ago. He too, felt nothing was ever good enough, he had an affair. What he failed to see or realise was that I loved him with all my heart and wanted much more for us. Instead he saw the nitpicking wife and not the insecure woman who desperately wanted to be loved. Perhaps your wife needs time and a bit of help to open her eyes and see what you feel about her. You too may need time to realise what it is you feel without all these problems.

I promise you that letting yourself feel things that are really just an escape from the real feelings you have about your marriage (the current negative ones) will only end up creating a much bigger mess. You will hurt everyone including your children. I believe you owe to yourself and your family to stick at things at the moment because you might miss out on keeping your family and being far happier with what you have.

Hang in there, read more on affairs. keep posting and let us know how you are.
best wishes,
Annie

[istat613033]

Annie
The thing I am struggling most with right now is the fact I realized I have never been able to give myself fully to my wife. There are things I love to do that she has no idea about because I have not been able to tell her. This other woman reminds me of what kind of person I was looking for from the start and makes me realize that my wife is none of those things. I have also started thinking I may have rushed into marriage. When I started seeing my wife it was the first extended relationship I have ever had. I have been with woman before but only for a couple of weeks here and there. I starting to think it is not so much we have grown apart as the fact we have always been apart but were blinded by the lust, pounding heart feeling when we first met that we never really say the true people behind it. I do love my wife but I am not in love with her anymore and I am realizing she is not the type of person I ever imagined being with. I do owe it to my marriage and my children to make ever effort to get things better. I just wonder if it was really meant to be. Tomorrow morning we have our next counseling session and I am going to lay it all out there and let the chips fall where they may. I am hoping that will get things started in the right direction whether it is together or not I do not know. I Just need closure one way or another because this is really starting to affect my life at school and work and I cannot take the stress anymore.

[angel11]

It sounds like you're under a lot of stress with children, two jobs and school. She is probably very stressed too. Give your family a chance. Go to counseling and try your very best. Marriage has ups and downs and you are going thru a downer right now.

Get her the book "The proper care and feeding of husbands" and read it with her. It might turn her around or make her aware of your feelings. Talk to her about things. Do it for your children (and yourselves).

Good luck.

And don't give that other woman another moment of your time. Don't look outside the marriage for solutions.

[istat613033]

Angel
I am under alot of stress and I need it to go away or at least ease abit. As far as the other woman is concerned we are just friends and coworkers and right now that is all we will be. She makes me happy when I am around her and I need that right now so I do not go insane. We do not discuss my marriage or see eachother outside of work unless a group of coworkers go out. I just like working with her and need the spark she is giving me right now. No affair will happen.

[Annie2]

Ista,

I hear what you are saying about not being 'in love' with your wife. But what is marriage, what is love and what is 'in love'. For me marriage is blooming hard work, it's like a business, two partners and you have to communicate and get it right. Instead it can turn into two people needing something from each other and the balance goes all wobbly. But if you re-work at it, get some guidance then you can have a very satisfying and happy marriage. Love is something that lasts, that is always there (even in hard times), it builds over time, it's reliable, committed and loyal and REAL. In love is that butterfly feeling, bubbles bursting and feeling a little crazy BUT it's not love and it doesnt last. It can come and go and it can be created but it doesnt last.

I really think you need to for your sake hang in there. You may think your wife is someone you didn't imagine being with but she is still the same person you first met. That person is in there somewhere, but squashed down by kids, work and daily life. Give her a chance and encourage her to re-surface.

Can you say what the things you love to do are that your wife doesnt know about. You sound so much like my husband. He too never fully shared himself, he hid quite a lot emotionally and so on. Your wife is more than likely feeling that, the distance and this would explain why she appears insecure.

I really hope you find some strength and focus soon.
Take care,
Annie

[istat613033]

Annie
Well we had another counseling session and I said what was on my mind and i did not hold back this time. We talked about our different personalitys and our different problems. After the session I felt better yet worse. I felt better because I got a lot off of my chest but at the same time I realize that we are in a pretty bad way right now and I do not know if it can be fixed. I am going to try my hardest and see what happens. We did both agree that we do not want to be where we are at now a year or ten years from now and if things do not start to improve we need to talk about other options. I hope we can work it out because we have both worked hard in our lives to create a life for ourselves and our children and it would not be fair to anybody to just walk away without really trying.

Thank you for your thoughts and any other advice can only help at this point

Istat

[angel11]

Please read: Not Just Friends It is very important to your marriage.

Whether you rushed into this marriage, "love" her but are not "in love" with her or whatever, YOU OWE IT TO YOUR KIDS TO TRY. The best thing you can do for your children is to love her mother. (Don't get me wrong, it MUST go both ways.) You "pretend" if you have to. Unless you want to be visiting your children every other weekend and/or watching some other man raise them.

Your marriage sounds like it got off the path, but it is not too late to rekindle things. You need to find a way to talk to her about the things that you are feeling. You both need to solve this TOGETHER.

And please please read "Not Just Friends".

[Annie2]

hello all,

I'm afraid Im not a great believer in just staying for the children. I believe it does everyone more harm than good, but that's just me. I couldn't pretend or force myself to feel something I don't simply to create a bubble around the children.

But that said, I do believe Istat that your marriage has hope. You and your wife have both said you don't want to be where you are right now and that is good because you both agree on that. It must feel pretty exhausting for you though and very overwhelming. But this is where you will start to recognise your own strength and your wife's. As each day passes you will see that you are still there ploughing on and that takes a lot of work.

I'm glad you managed to get a lot off your chest in counselling. That too can be quite stressful because in away you are reliving things and bringing a lot of feelings to the surface. I would imagine your wife too, found that very hard to hear. I hope you can find a way to appreciate that too for her sake.

You mentioned that you both have different personalities and problems. My husband used to point out how different we were and he worried that we were so different. His affair was with someone he felt was very similar to him. Yet, as our counsellor pointed out, to be so similar would make things a bit stale. To be different means that you have a spark and you can enrich your relationship by offering both different things. If you are impatient and your wife is not, you learn a little patience from her. If you have a wild sense of humour but your wife does not, she learns that from you. I hope I'm making sense here!

Whatever happens over the next few days remember that you are both bound to feel pretty raw at the moment. Everything is upfront and hitting the surface and it hurts, its confusing and it's very tiring. Just take each day as it comes. You are both currently in this together so try and remember to be kind to each other.

I wish you all the best, take care,
Annie

[angel11]

Annie,
I quite agree about remaining only for the sake of the children----not a good idea all the time. If there is physical, mental or emotional abuse, infidelity---hell, kids or no kids THAT IS DISTRUCTIVE TO THE KIDS.

But the notion that YOU (THE ADULT) is the only important thing in the world, and that if YOU (the adult) is not completely in "awe" and "happy" every minute then the hell with the kids.

Obviously these are absolute extremes, but just like the old timers took this idea to the limit, the youth also take it to the extreme.

When there is something as serious as a marriage and family, you owe it to them (& God) to try everything before they go their own way----ESPECIALLY if they have CHILDREN. That is what I am trying to say, GOD knows that is what I am trying to say.

[Anne22]

Hi ANgel

I have read your posts with interest - I do have this terrible guilt about my kids!!

I really feel that I have a duty to try and rekindle my relationship with my H for our sake and for the kids. I am also very aware I cant do this alone but I suppose lead by example!

My H was unfaithfull - lost his way and I dont know him as the person I thought! Hard when we have been together since school and your H calls you his best friend! I believe in marriage and am taking things slowly not rushing into any decisions but sometimes I feel I am the only one suffering in our house!

My H seems not to have any remorse, he is in turmoil and says he hasnt been happy like me for a long time. He says 'it was on a plate so I took it' - not really considering the full implications! He has had three one night stands and not a full blown affair - he says he felt disgusted and says he has had no emotional attachments with other women - but can I believe him!

He seems depressed now - admitted that he is in a 'black hole' but says nothing else! I decided to be patient and see how things pan out and if he will 'come back to me'

The time will come tho where I have to take stock and decide if this is the best life for me and the kids.

We dont argue infront of the kids - have done on a small scale twice but promised eachother not to do this to them! (well I asked him to promise me that we should keep our bad feelings private!)

The kids obviously pick up that I am sad and unhappy sometimes of course but I talk to them alot and explain that life throws lots of things at you and it is the way you cope and the choices you make which enrichen your life!

I am always trying hard to keep a happy home but because of my anxiety feel like a Jeckal & Hyde - happy on the surface but slowly dying inside!

Anne xx

[Helen]

I am always trying hard to keep a happy home but because of my anxiety feel like a Jeckal & Hyde - happy on the surface but slowly dying inside!

Anne xxAnne,

I hope you don't mind me responding. This statement resonated with me for so many reasons. I know you have put an exclamation mark here but it isn't funny. I just wanted to let you have a bit more about my story and warn you against the risk of making yourself sicker due to not doing anything more conclusive while you are waiting for life to right itself.

Sorry to say this is a bit long but I think it is important for you to have a bit of background to understand why I say what I say in my opening paragraph.

As you know, my ex had an affair with my sister in law. What I have not told you is about the period when the marriage was breaking down and the initial revelations. Like many people, I did not have a fairytale marriage. My ex was emotionally stunted, I think due to his upbringing. While, in the early days, he often called me to tell me he loved me and waited on me like a princess when I got home (he did everything but talk to me - the one thing I really wanted!), about 4 years ago (or so) he stopped. I knew something was wrong. We talked about it and he said that he did not feel needed because I was always at work. Now do not get me wrong. I often went to work for 7 or 8 in the morning but I was usually home by 6 or 7 in the evening. I only worked these hours to get one day off a week to study my MBA. I explained that at my grade and for the amount of money I was paid at the time (well in excess of £40k a year), my employers expected a lot of me and at times, this might mean I have to put in the hours. Not only that but I was working compressed hours - 36 hours over 4 days so that I could take a full day each week to study. But it did not mean I didn't love him - not at all. It just meant that I had to produce the goods and I wanted to do this in order to continue to send our child to private school, acquire my degree and do all the things we could do. But it would not last.

The truth is, I didn't really understand why my ex suddenly had a problem with the hours I was working. I always came home at around 6 or 7 in the evening, even when I was an admin officer and he hadn't minded then. Nothing had really changed. I can only assume that he knew in some way that I was giving more to my career than I had in the past.

He said he was okay but behind the scenes, he wasn't. But he did not have the sense to talk to me about his true feelings. Instead, he turned elsewhere. Over the years he had formed a friendship with my sister in law. This friendship was a source of tension between me and my brother, who often rang up complaining about the fact that my ex and my sister in law were going to yet another concert together. At this point, I was not concerned because a mutual friend (someone I had known since I was 15) was also going. Besides, I trusted my ex... Anyway, unbeknownst to me, my ex started confiding in my sister in law about his feelings about my job and found excuses to meet up with her outside the concerts. He denied it if asked about it but they were spotted all over the neighbourhood by friends of the family and information always got back to me.

Then there was an incident between us. Sorry to be graphic but we were having sex and I made a suggestion and my ex literally freaked out. He jumped out of bed and accused me of trying to take control in the bedroom. I have to admit, I was puzzled - I had made suggestions in the past and had never been met with this reaction! I told him that I thought it was for both parties to say what they wanted in bed. But no - he thought I should put up with what was on offer. Never mind the fact that I wasn't satisfied, he was. And that was all that mattered, as far as he was concerned... His reaction was so extreme that I became very upset and went to sleep in the spare room. The next day, there was no apology or acknowledgment of what had happened. But there was always tension when we made love. That was the start of things going completely pearshaped.

The next thing that happened was my ex put on loads of weight and stopped taking care of himself. I don't know if he was depressed. I suspect not. He just stopped bothering to make an effort for me. As you know, when people are very overweight, they snore. My ex developed a snore that would wake someone in a coma! I suggested that maybe he should go to the doctor to get it sorted. He ignored me. This went on for about a year. In the end, I felt homicidal - like I was honestly going to kill him for the sake of a good night's sleep! So I went off and slept on the sofa for a night because I had a demanding job and needed to sleep to be on top of my game. My ex said it killed him to see me sleeping there. The next night, without discussing it with me, he went and slept on the sofa. And that was where he stayed for the next 2 years. I could not believe it! I begged him to go to the doctor to sort it out. He refused. I asked him to come and sleep in the bed - I was willing to put up with the snoring because I knew if we did not share a room, that would be the end of us. Again, he refused. By this point he had made up his mind that a) he could not come back to the bed due to the snoring and b) he would not go to the doctor about the snoring, on principal. What or whose principal, I do not know.

Do you see how ridiculous the situation was? He couldn't.

While we were sleeping apart, I gradually became very depressed. I would cry myself to sleep at night. I put thngs on the bed just so that I didn't feel so alone. Pillows and books (to weigh down the mattress). I missed him. Then I developed insomnia. I literally laid awake all night thinking, thinking. Just thinking. And then got up in the morning to do my job. In the meantime, my ex kept saying he was lonely but still refused to come back to sleep in the bed. I honestly felt like I was losing my mind.

Things came to a head on 20 September 2004. I will never forget that date. It was the Monday after my ex's 40th. On this day, he confessed to kissing my brother's wife. He said he was only telling me because he knew it would get back to me. It turned out that my adult nephew had seen him kissing this woman passionately in Battersea Park. I asked a number of questions, including whether he had slept with this woman. He was adamant that he hadn't. He said he had just kissed her in a friendly way on the lips. I knew he was lying about this because I was told he was kissing her like he would kiss a lover he was passionately in love with. But, coward that I was, I was not ready to deal with it.

After telling me, he literally smiled and skipped off, like a weight had been lifted from his shoulders. Meanwhile, my world came crashing down. Still, I did nothing. Then, about 2 weeks after telling me, he asked me if we were going to make a go of things. I said no because I honestly felt that he had not been candid with me. He insisted he had been but I KNEW he hadn't. I told him that we could not rebuild our marriage on a foundation of lies so he needed to think about whether he had been honest with me. He said okay and went off. This happened in October, just after I made the penultimate payment to my son's school for his term's fees.

Then, in spring after I made the final payment, for the summer term, my ex asked again if we would make a go of things. I said no, for the same reasons as explained earlier. I just felt my ex was looking for money. I was paying more than £12k a year for our son to attend a private school and my ex obviously saw this money being freed up and him being on easier street. Yet I could not agree to rebuild our relationship because I knew he was lying to me. And I could not bring myself to confront him about his lies...

How sad am I?

In the background to all this, I was gradually getting sicker and sicker. I was not sleeping AT ALL. I did not sleep more than an hour a night for 9 months. I was covered in eczema - I now know due to stress. I became allergic to all sorts of things. I cried every night and my brain refused to turn itself off. By July last year enough was enough. This had been going on for 10 months. I decided that I could not deal with it anymore. I needed to know once and for all what was going on because if left to my ex, we would just drift on and on...

I did some snooping and found some jewellery my ex had bought for this tramp. He had bought other jewellery - he said for his nieces (aged 20 and 15). But he also foolishly bought an ID bracelet for this woman. Initally he stuck to the friends story but eventually he caved in and admitted he had bought it for her and, under questioning, that they were having sex. And there ends my story because the rest you have already heard. The only thing to add was he said that he had slept with my sister in law for the first time a couple of days before his 40th - on our 15th wedding anniversary.

The point is, if you let it rest, despite doubts, you might be in that position forever. I became ill with automimmune disease as a direct result of the emotional stress this man had put me through. My doctor was appalled, as is my specialist. Even the work Occupational Therapist (I was referred there) was sympathetic and did what she could to lighten my load considerably. And my counsellor. They were appalled not only by the way things unfolded but by who my ex cheated with. They were disgusted. They also told me I was very brave to keep trying to find out the truth...

My advice to you is yes, try to maintain the status quo but also think about you. You are already sick. Do not risk making yourself sicker by living in an uncertain environment. If your ex is emotionally vacant and always has been, a miracle may happen. But don't count on it. This is, as Annie often says, about survival. You need to decide at what point YOU stop trying to make things work despite his apparent apathy. You need to decide what commitment YOU need. I never stopped loving my ex. He made the decision for me due to his inablity to see beyond HIS needs and wants. Do not make the mistake I made because now my life and health is on the life. My career is in a hiatus and I don't know if it will ever emerge.

Do take care,


Helen

[Annie2]

Helen,

You said 'How sad am I'.....don't you see, you were far, far from 'sad'. To have confronted him may have allowed yourself to be put in a situation which he would have lied, flattered you and so on to get out of what you felt were his reasons. You were very, very strong not to be tempted into confronting him because you probably knew deep down that there may have been a tiny little chance his lies would have unsettled your made up mind. You were right to think the way you did and you did that through trusting and knowing yourself. That is the place I want to get to whatever that will mean for me.

Take care,
Annie

[Helen]

Annie,

I have cried today, for the first time in a lot of months. Not only for the end of my marriage but also for the impact on my career that ill-health has wrought. I now realise that this man has hurt me in so many ways. So many ways. And I constantly wondered - is it me? No, it isn't. It's him. It wasn't about making up my mind! It was about knowing my husband. If you met my ex and spoke to him about this, he would still blame me. That's what hurts - the fact that he never spoke to me about his feelings. Instead, he had an affair - WITH MY BROTHER'S WIFE!!! MY BROTHER! He won't acknowledge his role in my hurt and feelings. He seems to have gotten himself to a place where how I feel and what I feel is immaterial. His wants and needs are paramount. THIS is what hurt me in the end. This is what still hurts....

Sod him. I am not going to bury the feelings again yet I know that without his input, without signs of his upset, I will struggle with the end of our marriage forever. I also realise he will never give me these signs -because he is a selfish ***** and has been throughout our relationship. So it is up to me to move on without him...as usual...


H

[Mike56]

I've tried several times not to reply to this thread (and the other broadly similar ones about taking ownership / moving on but I have to add to this.

Helen, your grief shows through - and I can only empathise. I cry too - for the lost potential of my relationship with Alice, for the pain, for the wonderful moments and the sadness and hurt of what she did and the final way she closed "us" down with a text messsage.

Annie, I know I wasn't happy for a long time - I also know I tried so many times to ahve a dialogue and was refused. I recall so many times when she would over-ride any agreements we'd made together that it became a waste of time even thinking about discussing things, as she'd just do what she wanted.

That actually produced a situation where she ended up spending a considerable amount of money because she wouldn't listen to input, and had to re-jig the building of her barn.

Her solution to her unhappiness was to take another man to our bed, while I was away on business, trying my hardest to make a success of the job she was so adamant I had, and which she then resented my doing. She even left me to find the evidence when I came back in the form of an unmade bed, and other cler evidence of what had happened. That the man is married, and with a family only adds to the harm she's causing. That he's a professional connection of hers in Scotland only suggests she lacks professionalism, quite apart from the lack of morals and principles.

Despite a happy period where I really thought we had a chance to re-connect, she enjoyed that while she made her decision, and then told me I had to leave. While she helped with that process financially, and for which I was grateful, she then showed me the new bed she'd bought which cost well over twice what she'd given me to help move. That hurt a bit.

She gave me signs which were (at best) mixed and (at worst) deliberatly confused and which suggested she'd like me back in her life. It broke my heart to realise she only wanted what she wanted all along, and wouldn't come back to me.

This is the woman who works at a senior level in a care based charity, providing care for people for people with learning difficulties and helping them become integrated into the community. I have to conclude she has the emotional maturity, the sharing and the communication skills of a 5 year old. Yet she has a degree in Human Resource Management, and is studying for an MBA.

I even wanted to marry her. What was I thinking?

I'm not blameless here - I recognise I gave her signs which gave rise for concern. I know I hurt her too. But I only ever wanted to resolve things, and never betrayed her trust despite opportunity.

From it all however comes the recognition that I had to also take ownership and move on, and I did. I grieve for the potential - but I have to accept it just wasn't going to happen and what did happen served (if nothing else) to make me realise how futile it would have been to continue in a relationship with someone where we just clearly weren't suited to each other. Perhaps one day she'll find someone to be happy with, I doubt there'll be much depth or emotional attachment though.

Our sitauion over the years can't have made her happy - it wasn't making me happy. And just about everyone, including close friends of hers, were telling me to move on and not hope for recovery. Not one person was able to suggest that she could compromise enough to make our relationship work, although I knew (and proved) I could and even now think she could if she wanted to.

So, where does that leave you Annie? I can only add to what Helen has said - consider what you get from the relationship - consider how much better you might be without it, and make your own decision for your own good.

I wish you strength - I miss Alice enormously, but that may be bacuase she made me needy rather than nurturing me, and the security and life-style were drivers for both of us rather than the emotional attachment, love and support I craved and also wanted to give her. Are those things lacking in your life? And if so, can you ever get them from the existing relationship? A relationship is meant to be equal, supporting and a proper cic le of love an dsupport.

I sincerely hope that you can, and with love, understanding and a shared wish for them, you probably can rebuild and grow. I wish you well - I just so wish Alice and I could have done that, and still (in my heart) want to. If nothing else though, it's also let me find out there there are loving, warm, nurturing people out there, and I've been lucky to have found some of them.

Helen - it hurts like hell when someone won't talk about theri feelings. But consider this. Perhaps they can't actually articulate them. Or perhaps by not doing so they like the power of knowing it pisses you off, while at the same time leaving them in full control of the situation and not being required to enter into a discussion becasue they fear they may not be able to support their stance if they do! Been there.

I've learned a lot. I only hope Alice has, and I hope you guys will too. And I still miss her, I'll always love her, (despite everything) and I'm trying really hard not to hold the pain while growing from the experience, and smiling becasue it happened rather than crying because it's over.

Mike.

[callow]

I am sorry that there are so many of us that are feeling this way. We deserve to have a loving warm, uplifting relationship. That is what I thought marriage was going to be and I was disappointed to find that not the case for me.

I am sure you made excuses for your husband, I know I did for mine constantly. The fact that in both my labours he was more interested in watching TV and getting himself breakfast than supporting me. It broke my heart that he did this because I am quite a strong person and rarely ask for help, but childbirth is a time when a women needs support, not to have to listen to her husband moan about lack of sleep etc.

I also strongly believe in marriage and if my husband hadn't left I know I would have kept on. I pushed him away enough that I was comfortable, (he lived and worked in London during the week) and came back at weekend. Everything I did was done to stop me hurting, for example, one time he refused to come to our daughters birthday party. He had to collect his mother from the airport but there was plenty of time to come after. He did drop by but only so his mother could say Hello, he then went again before the cake came out. I asked why he didn't want to come, he had no answer. After that all I planned all birthday parties midweek so he couldn't and wouldn't have been able to come. That stopped my hurt because he now had a good excuse to use as to why he wouldn't come in the future. There are many more examples.

I remember thinking a few hours after he asked for separation. "One day I am going to thank you for that". That was my intuition speaking and I should listen to it more. Now over 1 and half years later I am feeling more like that.

I am dedicating 2007 as a year to get to know me, to be happy with myself to follow my dreams. I feel that only after this will I be ready to find love again. I have a lot of great spiritual books.

Some I recommend are:

Spiritual Divorce by Debbie Ford
The Journey from Heartbreak to Connection: A Workshop in Abandonment Recovery by Susan Anderson
Wild Love by Gill Edwards

Sally

[Anne22]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you everyone for all your thoughts.

Helen I am sorry you are still hurting - you sound such a fantastic, together individual giving so much time to everyone with advice and guidance - I thank you for your honesty and I do worry that I will be wasting this time - while I give my H space!!! I hope you can come out from under the cloud and are able to build your life again! You like me have had a big job and know what you are capable of - dont let it worry you that you may not get back to what you did - you may find a change in something else will give you what you need to come full circle.

I have come to terms with my health issues and actually feel quite comfortable in my skin!!!!!

I do feel I am a 'giver' and my husband is a 'taker' and that is always how things have been. I sometimes wish I could meet a 'giver' like so many of my girlfriends and enjoy all that that brings but somehow I dont believe I deserve that and dont think I ever will!

Of course I believe in marriage and wouldnt consider an extra-marital affair so I know deep down the decision is there for me!

I may be flogging a dead horse, and my health may also be a reason why I have not been brave enough to move on - life is so confusing for me!

As you know my H did sleep twice over a 7 year timescale with a good friend of mine and had a one night stand with someone else but he has not fled into anothers arms emotionally (not that I know about!!!) - It would be such an easy decision to make if he had someone else that he was confiding in!!! However, he is emotionally stunted and I cant imagine him talking to anyone about emotions!!!

Shame really - because I feel that would help us so much if he could/would talk to me!!! I believe it is this that he fears most!!!

Its so nice to hear a man like you Mike talking - seems alien to me that a man can be so in command of his feeling - I suppose I find it hard as my H was my first real boyfriend from school and I dont know anything else!!

Well those are my thoughts for now - I really appreciate hearing everyones views!

Take care Anne x

[Anne22]

Sally

We must have been typing at the same time - I just want to say that is how I see it at the moment I just cant see me throwing in the towel - I believe that it will take him leaving for it all to end!!!

Everyday I am trying to be stronger - I just hope as time goes on I can move on from this anxious state! I do worry that I read too much into my h current behaviour and that he is behaving and I am not giving him the credit for it because of my anxiety!!

I too am looking forward to 2007 as MY YEAR!!!

Anne xxx

[Annie2]

Hello all,
Helen I am so sorry that you are still suffering. I really hope that you get something good in life soon to take away all of that hurt, whether it be the nicest man in the world (let me know if you find him) or just something that lifts you up.

I have hope for you, you are amazingly insightful and extremely helpful on this site, and you probably don't realise just how strong and fabulous you are. Don't focus too much on how he made you feel about yourself (remember that was crap on every level - you felt crap, he was talking and behaving crap). He didn't open his eyes and ears enough to find the real you. Spending so much time with him allowed you probably to forget and let go of the real you. Now is your time to come out again fully. I reckon from what we have read from your postings the world is smiling and ready for you!

Take care Helen, you are in my thoughts today.
Annie

ps. Mike, the same for you (see above), thank you for your kind response. Right now I am just being still, not decision making or stressing, just taking a back seat in life and seeing what happens! Most likely disaster but we'll see! xx

[Annie2]

hello again,
Istat, if you are out there don't be put off by us. Have a good read and realise you are in such an advantage, you could prevent all of this from happening!
Annie

[angel11]

Annie,
First let me say that I am truly sorry you find yourself here with this problem. There were so many things that popped out at me while reading your thread. I hope I can be helpful to you.
You say you have guilt because of your children and that is completely understandable. You want to try to rekindle your romance with your husband because you feel you owe it to the children----but as you said, you can't do that alone.

If you have tried and your husband refuses to have remorse and has a serial cheating attitude----it is not your fault. You sound like you have tried everything----guilt is a good thing when it cajoles you to go the extra yard. BUT IF YOU not only have gone the extra yard, but an entire mile,I don't think the word guilt is appropriate here.

"The time will come tho where I have to take stock and decide if this is the best life for me and the kids." ABSOLUTELY AND REMEMBER THAT
God allows divorce for infidelity.

You sound like you have been a good mom and have put your children before you.

Hope I've been helpful. I shall say a little prayer for you and your children.

[istat613033]

Annie2
I am still here and still unsure of what to do. Yesterday when my wife got home from work she was different, she was very cuddly and caring which is a complete turn around from the pervious days and months. I feel it has to do with the counseling session that morning in which I laid it all out there. She now knows I am seriously considering leaving and I think she is trying to calm the seas so to speak. I appreciate her sentiment but wonder if and how long will it last. Right now I just want to be alone to sit and figure out what to do and she wanted to get all snuggly in bed and I cannot just trun the switch like that. The feelings I have just do not go away all of the sudden. The other problem I am having right now is I do not know what to say and I feel very awkward around her. I am just exhausted and mentally fried right now and need to find some relief from the anxiety and stress. I wish I had all the anwsers but I don't so I will just keep plugging along and hopefully I will find the answers I am looking for.

Istat

[Annie2]

Istat,
It's good to hear you didn't get scared off from this thread:) We've just been waiting for you to get back!

I'm sorry you seem to be so confused about your feelings still. I think your wife showed amazing courage to be cuddly in the face of your rejection. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I mean it to be helpful. It clearly shows how much she wants and loves you. I wouldn't be confused about that. Why do you find it so hard that she is 'trying to calm the seas'? This is her way of showing you she doesnt want to lose you.

I know you feel confused and feel you need to get away, or have space or a bit of relief. What would happen if you found that in your wife? I just wonder if you tried to cuddle, rekindle what you first had. What do you fear would happen?

You say you fear your wife's cuddly behaviour won't last. You are right it wont when it's not returned. Your distance is more than likely hurting and confusing her. She is going to react in many, many different ways. She will be caring, distant too, angry, frustrated and hurt.

I really don't believe taking a break or finding a relief will solve anything. By doing that you are running away from the real issues infront of you. I know this is really hard for you because you don't understand how you feel and your wife doesnt' understand either (or may be getting it wrong) but you both need answers. I would think you would be far better off trying to find those together. If you push her away then it's going to be harder for her to understand what is going on. You need her understanding right now because without it the overwhelming feelings of demands and responsibility to her unmet needs are going to pile up.

I can appreciate how mentally fried you must feel (and I know I keep saying it, but I'm sure your wife is the same). Can't you both agree to set times of when to talk about your issues. To agree to be around each other but not in each others faces. That way you are not going to have to stress that you can't escape from it all. She needs to understand and so do you that you can't talk about it all the time, you will both burn out.

I'm not surprised you don't know what to say and you feel awkward around her. If you don't understand things yourself, how can you offer her any input. Your marriage is in crisis and that is bound to be awkward. You are deep down aware you are not meeting her needs and you have no idea what yours are and that too has an uneasy feeling about it.

Hang in there Istat, you really are slowly on your way to more understanding. You have come this far to identify that you are confused, you just need to get to the bit where you work out the REAL reasons for that.
Take care, best wishes
Annie

Helen, Mike, Anne and gang please advise as I wonder if I am the best person on this subject. I find myself, although very sympathetic to Istat's situation, feeling more for his wife (I've been that role). But perhaps i'm missing something....

[Annie2]

ps, Istat your original question was 'should I call it quits'. I'm going to stick my neck on the line and say my opinion is NO. Why call it quits when you really have no idea why you are feeling like this. Call it quits when you work out a really concrete reason to and when you really see and believe that that is the right answer for you. Right now, she is all you have (the woman who wants to care and hug for you in the face of you leaving). A brilliant bit of advice on another thread was 'if in doubt do nothing'. I really think you need to hang on to that. Where will you be if you call it quits? You have no idea, or no real feeling of that because as you say right now you are confused. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Why not go the full length and find out what this is all about.
Take care of yourself and be patient with yourself too.
Annie

[istat613033]

Thanks Annie for the advice it makes alot of sense. For now I am going to take each day as it comes and see what happens. I will let you all know how things go, but right now I have to study got a HUGE Anatomy and Physiology Test tommorow

Later All

[Annie2]

Blimey you don't do things by halfs do you! Good luck with your exam, it sounds disgusting:eek: !
Annie

[MrsWood]

Ista,

Your story reflects mine at the moment - almost to the last word. However, I'm on the wife end :)

Anyway, my husband and I have been married for 10 years (coming up in few days) and have one daughter. We have got on brilliantly at the very beggining and share many interests, even now.
One problem is that my husband takes his work and his beloved PC as number one priority (it doesn't help that he's a programmer and a web designer). He's a great father, and not a BAD husband, but there are so many things missing in our marriage.
One example is our wedding - he had to go to work couple of days after the big day, and we are yet to have a honeymoon :) As I said, I'm number "god knows which" in his life. I have always voiced my unhappines and have always told him I'd like him to pay a little more attention to me, such as a kiss or a hug that's not when I ask him for one. He never really bothered (he'd do it few times after each argument, but then back to usual) - in return for his ignorance I have turned into a nagging wife, arguing over the smallest of things. Then I finally get noticed! But then obviously last thing we both want is to be close. Our sex life has been pretty much non existent, and quite boring - for the past 9 years!
Few days ago, with the anniversary coming up, and everyone admiring our "strong" relationship (oblivious to the unhappines we are in), I blew my top - I was so unhappy, I told him all I ever wanted to and all he already knows - I felt so unwanted (due to certain weight and other unfalattering comments), and so rejected, I decided to make myself feel better since he didn't bother hearing me or understanding it takes two to tango. Many arguments over the years ended with me asking him what he wanted to change in our relationship, he didn't say things like "for us to love eachother and be happy" but something along the lines of "for you to stop nagging me" not realising that a HAPPY partner doesn't need to nag and that things like forgetting to take the rubbish out are far less important if you feel happy in the relationship otherwise.
Anyway, we said quite a few hurtful things to eachother in the days of this fight, we chucked wedding rings at eachother, our daughter saw and heard majority of things we said or did, and it felt a volcano was about to erupt any moment.
I went out with my friends, got absolutely hammered and before leaving the place, plucked up the courage and pieced up all my confidence in myself (or whatever was left of it) to snog some guy there. This was never gonna go further, I needed to see whether I was THAT undesirable to men - as I was left to feel after arguments with my husband, and also to see how much I really felt for my husband. Of course, I feel completely annoyed with myself that I let this kiss happen, and I also feel I've betrayed myself (I actually have very high morals believe it or not!). But something in me just snapped. My husband couldn't have cared less for me and was quite clear about the fact he's not sure whether or not he loves me the way he should etc.
Anyway, I told him about it the very same night when I got back. He was understandibly upset, and slept downstairs. I woke up the next morning feeling stupid and with "what the hell are you doing? Go make sure he takes you back" attitude - which kind of happened - he said he was angry and found it difficult believing I'd go to such lengths but that he also had an eye opener and that we should give it a go. I thought that would really only happen if we both tried our hardest to show eachother how much we loved eachother - so I made a first move in all affection, for 3 days solid. It wasn't guilt as I actually thought it was a good thing to happen to us so we can see how strong our relationship was. All affection I showed my husband was honest - I didn't put any of it on because of the fact I snogged another guy and I felt I needed to grovel. I really meant every hug, and every bit of attention. I actually felt good about myself, and started to feel that considering he didn't leave me, I assumed he must love me too, and we were going to spend the next 10 years really happy and forget about these awful previous 10 where pretty much every day was a struggle.
Next few days we ended up talking a lot, and resolved some issues and we actually had a lot of cuddles, and sex few times - once was a bit of a "guilt" sex, next time was amazing and the next was good but not as good as night before. It didn't matter, I expected some drawbacks.
The problem now is that he says we CAN have sex and a relationship, AND that we should move on but that he can't kiss me (!?). I tried many times, he'd kind of insinuate I can kiss him but then he'd just turn away before it happens. I can put two and two together and understand why this kiss is so hard for him - but to have sex with me, even allow me to (excuse me for being graphic) perform another act with my lips, but kissing - god forbid! Am I missing something or is this totally ok? I was clearly upset by that rejection and as a friend of mine put it "expected some cash on the night stand" afterwards - he just says he's not sure whether he loves me the way he should as a husband, and that he needs few days to think about things. When I got more upset then he came out with "OK, I'll kiss you if you want, I'm sorry, I'll try harder". To be honest, it's hardly the same him doing this as a result of me being upset, and I'm kind of thinking the whole relationship now really needs to come to an end - I don't need few days to think anything through, I loved him since I met him, and still do. The night I kissed some guy was a mistake but was obvioulsy needed as we finally stopped arguing, and he finally listened - it was like a highest point of anger, it couldn't have been any worse.
I think this kiss has just given him an excuse for some of the things now - apparently, it doesn't matter how unhappy he made me for 9 or so years, as he never cheated but me kissing this guy, THAT apparently is a REAL problem. The rest weren't problems, I was just a nagging wife.
So, where do we go from here - he wants us to move on, but is not sure if he loves me anymore (for me that's an important aspect of a relationship - he doesn't think so), I also want to move on, and accept my mistake and AM absolutely POSITIVE that I love him. Well, after consistent rejections, maybe that changes soon too. Then we can both be on the same page and just split.

[istat613033]

Well the test is over thank god, but now I am back to another issue. I went back to work yesterday and she was there and again we had such a great time together. The more I get to know her the more I am drawn to her. She knows about my situation and told me to do whatever is going to make me happy. She has no Idea I have feelings for her and I want it to stay that way. I need to work on my marriage but at the sametime I want to be with her. I have decided that right now I can just be her friend, heck I do not even know if she likes me the same way. I have a feeling she does but I cannot be sure. What is bothering me the most is the fact that my wife is none of the things this girl is and I want her to be. My wife is not funny she hates sports which is a huge passion of mine and we share very little with eachother. If this was a problem that just had surfaced I would say our marriage would be ok, but it is not just a problem now it has been a problem since before we were married, we just did not let it get in the way since we were young and partying and what not. I am not all that young anymore and want to have a relationship were my partner is my best friend and me and my wife have never been best friends. I want to share my passion for singing, sports and my other intrests, but when I try I can tell she is just listening to be nice. I want her to see what I love and share in that passion with me. I most of the time I like to do the things she likes and it makes me happy when she is happy. I am a person who gets pleasure from seeing my friends and family happy, but I want to be able to share all of my joys and passions with someone who can understand and enjoy them with me. My wife and I have a lunch date scheduled and I am thinking about things to talk about, and I can only come up with a few. We should be able to just talk about anything and let the conversation lead itself, but we can't because as soon as sports or music or something she does not like comes up the conversation fizzles because she is no longer intrested. For me I like hearing about her day at work and what she did even thought most of the time I have no idea what she is talking about (she works in insurance). I guess what I am trying to say is my wife is not my best friend and right now is not even a close friend. What does that mean for my marriage?

Sorry about the ramblings i just needed to get my thoughts out.

I wish I knew what to do
Later
Istat

[Annie2]

Istat,

This girl is exactly the same as when you first met your wife. She is someone who will of course listen to your every word, share your interests verbally and make you feel interesting. Your wife did that too I am sure when you first met her. But you have been together for a long time, it changes. You have not lived with this girl 24/7, you have not had children and you have not shared life with her. Therefore how can you be so sure that what you see now is always going to be that way. What happens if she has interests that you simply don't enjoy or understand. What if she doesn't share the same views and opinions as you in everything. You don't know until you have been with her for a long time (like your wife). Therefore everything is surface right now. Especially so as you are comparing her to the woman that you are confused about. You are very unfairly forgetting the good things about your wife. She has been loyal to you, married you and shared your life with you. Ok she might find sport dull, she might not be interested in your music. Has she ever tried to stop you from being interested. Can you imagine how hurt she would feel to know she was being unfairly placed on the scales against someone you barely know? Why do you think she would be hurt? She loves you. If she loves you, then there is great hope that she will want to meet your needs. Not because she has to but because she wants to and loves you.

You are fooling yourself by saying that this girl is just a friend. If you are comparing your wife to her, sharing your marital issues and having feelings for her then you are already cheating on your wife. I feel so despairing at this because it is exactly what my husband did to me. He fooled himself into thinking a woman he had known for a few weeks was a friend. Yet he too found her all the things you have listed. He compared me, he felt we had nothing in common (he forgot a lifetime of experiences shared and children and marriage). He had an affair and when his bubble burst and he realised just what he was giving up and for someone he realised he didn't even know he was horrified. I strongly advise that you deal with this as soon as possible. You must stop seeing her, spending time with her and thinking about her. The whole time you are doing that you are finding faults in your marriage instead of concentrating on fixing them. Everything will become so so so much worse for you Istat if you don't nip this in the bud. Have a good read just how destructive affairs are and read how easily they start and finish. Is your wife so bad, do you have that little respect or loyalty to her that you would hurt her so much in this way? Wake up Istat you are kidding yourself!

To say your wife is not even a close friend is understandable. But again you don't spend your whole daily life with a close friend so once again you have put an impossible label on her again. Yes, things should and could be better between you but are you not even going to give her a chance to try. You need to explain as clearly as you can to her what your needs and hopes are. Try also telling her what you do like not just what you don't. It's going to be hard and hurtful for her and she is not going to change overnight.

Istat I really feel that you are not giving your marriage much of a chance. You did say you were going to hang in there and I thought that was such a good idea. But if you are already comparing your wife with, and on the scale of things she is, a stranger then that is really not haning in there. It's your choice Istat but I really would like you to be aware just how wrong you could go. Pretending someone is a friend and unfairly comparing them to your wife is not helpful. In a way, and I don't mean to be horrible, you sound like a child throwing his toys out the cot because they no longer work. You are clearly an intelligent man and you know how to work. Your wife needs your help on this, she probably has no idea what is going on inside your head. How can she change without that?

If this girl is just a friend, does your wife know anything about her? Do you share that with your wife?

Istat, please think very carefully, you are sending out huge danger signs.
Take care, post again soon and please understand that I am not trying to be insulting I'm just still in pain over my husband doing and feeling everything you are right now. If he were talking to you right now I think he'd wake you up in a flash.

Best wishes,
Annie

[Annie2]

ps.
Istat,
Think, when did your unhappiness really start getting huge? Was it when you took notice of this girl? When you started comparing her with your wife?

If this girl was a true friend would she not be advising you on talking to your wife, trying to get you sort things out there? Instead she says you should do what make YOU happy. Not your children or your wife. She has no loyalty or feeling about them and she is helping you to have none either. Is that the friend you want?

You are without knowing it making decisions and moves towards huge changes for not just you but your wife and your children. Who should you be talking to about that, I really don't think her. Frankly, it's none of her business, she has no real understanding about that. But she will be enjoying your attention and she won't be blind to your feelings. Therefore, as nice as she may be, she is taking all that for herself. She gives to get back. Does your wife do that? Your wife is not getting much of the flattering feelings you are giving this girl yet she cuddled you and wants to make your marriage work. Why? She is getting nothing at the moment in return. That is love. It's not the bubbly, butterflies and fun (the 'in-love') it's the committment, loyalty and lasting love. Really Istat what do you want? Because only one will last by working at it. The other will frazzle out.