Has my wife fallen out of love with me??

[Kirk]

Hi - I'm new here. Please help me out. This may be all a bit rambley - bit of a stream of consciousness. Hope it makes sense. Bare bones, really, there's loads more bits and pieces, but its going to be wordy enough anyway. And I'll probably leave loads of really important stuff out. Here goes...


Been with my wife for 16 years (since Uni), and been married for 9 of those.

Sounds stupid, but all our/my problems really started 4 years ago when we got some cats. Bear with me here...

We were very much in love for many many years. The usual minor ups and downs but really nothing serious. The question of 'children' was always kinda swept under the rug as we were both firmly in the 'dont know' camp for many years. Then we hit our early-thirties. Our views became polarised: I'd really like children, and one day, 3 years ago my wife said she definitely did not want any children. I was naturally heartbroken, but hey. So be it. I dealt with it, came to terms with it and moved on. After all, my wife and our marriage were the most important things to me. For a while I'd get what felt like hunger pangs, almost an aching to be a father, but with time it passed and, really, it's not a problem for me any more.

Thing is, before she made this decision we got a couple of pet cats. My wife's always been cat-mad and I thought that maybe a pet might trigger some kind of dormant maternal response in her (she was still in the 'dont know' camp). Within a year she had made her decision to not have children.

These cats have really taken over. She *absolutely* dotes on them to the point of obsession. They are all she ever talks about. She gives them chilled bottled mineral water to drink. She talks to them (constantly) as if they're babies and treats them like children. She's always cuddling them and/or carrying them round, rocking them. She has photos of them in her wallet. She drives home at lunchtime to see them. There are photos of them allround the house. If one's asleep on the floor or wherever, she'll cuddle up next to it and kiss it. It might sound like I'm jealous, but its way more serious than that. They never leave the house and she hardly leaves it either. She has NOTHING in her life anymore other than the cats. No hobbies. No interests other than TV which can be done while nursing a cat. Nothing. She has no friends. She goes out to work and comes home to the cats. I could go on but I think you probably get the point.

A couple of years ago we had a discussion about how things had changed. We were starting to live almost separate lives: She spent all her spare time doting on her cats which left me twiddling my thumbs. I focussed my energies on enjoying my chosen sport which proved a great distraction from all my troubles and consumed a lot of my time. There was no alternative at home: just a wife who preferred the company of cats to anything I had to offer. She felt we had little in common any more. Sadly we agreed that it was probably for the better if we separated and it would be easier if I moved out. The next day we agreed that it was ridiculous to separate since we both loved each other still and we would work at the marriage and 'do stuff' together. Where the was no common ground we would MAKE common ground. I remember we were really quite positive.

Since then, however, things have gone from bad to worse. About a year ago if I said 'I love you', she'd reply with a 'thank you'. Which kinda stunned me. I tried to tell her I loved her several times after that in the following weks to see if it was a blip, but 'thank you' was all I got back every time. I stopped saying it because her reply hurt me so much. She hasn't told me that she loves me for over a year. She hasn't said anything romantic or even nice to me in all that time either. We used to say 'I love you' to each other about 10 times a day. And we meant it every time.

It's got to the stage where I'm feeling totally rejected. She can barely make eye contact with me. We only kiss if I kiss her (and then its a 'hello' or 'goodbye' kind of tight-lipped, arm's length kiss), we only cuddle if I cuddle her (and then she's 'limp'...). Sometimes if I cuddled her she'd accuse me of being clingy, so I backed off. Sometimes f I said her kiss was a bit tight-lipped (or something) she'd say I was criticising her...

She's never been the most sexually-driven woman but when things were 'underway' she always enjoyed it and we had a great time. But frequency has plummeted: from kinda once-a-month 6 or 7 years ago to once every few months. At present we haven't made love in a year. To be honest there's hardly any physical contact any more so I don't expect it any more. She doesn't ever cuddle me in bed which I miss terribly. And she always sleeps facing away from me which I find very hurtful. If our legs touch accidentally, she'll pull away.

If ever I raised the subject about how she'd done something to upset me (say, getting up in the morning without even looking at me) she'd just say she didn't think it was an issue.

I'm absolutley heartbroken. I still love her desperately: I think she's a wonderful, sweet, bright, intelligent, attractive beautiful woman, but I am so on the side-lines of her life that she barely notices me.

A couple of weekends ago we had another discussion. She's been blanking me for about a year now and I just had to say something. There'd been no improvement in the situation so the subject had to be broached however much I didn't want to hear the answer. I asked her why she'd been treating me so coldly for the last year or more. She eventually said her 'problem' with me is that I was going to leave her a 3 years ago and she just can't trust me enough to let me back in to her life.

?????

Erm... *WE* agreed split up. *WE* agreed it was easier if I moved out. It was the last thing I wanted to do but it would make her happy. It seemed the only answer at the time. How does that equate to me 'leaving her'??

We agreed (next day) it was ridiculous to split up and we would work at the marriage.

And it was 3 years ago!!! I'd (almost) forgotten all about it! I dealt with it, came to terms with it and moved on. I kinda hoped she could have moved on as well. But it would seem its been weighing on her mind heavily for 3 years.

Or is that an excuse, do you think? Is she looking for reasons to not love me??

During this discussion I asked her outright if she loved me and she said she didn't know. I told her I loved her and wanted to be with her, but she said she didn't know what she wanted and she needed time to think. A couple of weeks later she decided she DID want to be with me, but still no mention of love from her. And not a flicker of improvement.

All my attempts to reach her ('normal' husband/wife things) are failing. Kind words, carresses, qulity time, romantic meals, night out, days out, you know the sort of thing... I'm not making any headway. There is not a flicker of affection from my wife towards me, while all the time these cats are getting her full attention and bucketloads of love and affection.

I want my wife back. The one that used to jump up and down on the spot with excitement when I came home from work. The one that used to fling her arms round my neck and squeeze me. The one that made me late for work every day cos we'd spend too long cuddling.

My friends think she's mad, and that *I'm* mad for putting up with her.

What do I do?

[Helen]

Kirk,

I seriously doubt that what happened 3 years ago is preying on your wife's mind because the distance was already there. I suspect she is more worried about recent events. She knows she is not being a wife to you. She knows she is alienating you through being overly affectionate towards the cats and not towards you. She knows you are not happy with your sex life too. And I suspect she realises that all the things that are going wrong between you are enough to drive a permanent wedge between you. The 'issue' is you almost split over this once and she probably knows if things don't change, this is probably where you will end up. So what does she do about it? Nothing.

I want to talk about escapism and walls. Because that is what you have going on here. The two of you are stuck in 'escape habits' and she has put up a wall for some reason. Her escapism is shown through her displaying overly affectionate behaviour towards the cats - deep down she must know what she is doing isn't normal yet she does it anyway. Yours is to do with your hobbies to deal with her cat obsession. But the thing about you is you do not want to escape. You only have these hobbies because you are finding your wife's cat obsession hard to deal with. So, you are the one who raises the issues you are having with the existing arrangement and your wife feels compelled to 'defend' her position (her cats) and erect a wall - to protect herself - from what I am not sure. The really sad thing here is cats are no substitute for kids and I do think your wife is using the cats as substitute children. That said, there could be a number of reasons for her obsession. Maybe she still has mixed feelings about the kids issue but doesn't know how to deal with them - she may think if she focuses enough on the cats, the urge to have kids will go away. Perhaps she thinks the door is closed because you discussed it and both decided that this wasn't what you wanted. Or maybe she knows that you still want kids (let's face it, even though you say you came to terms with not having them, if she changed her mind tomorrow I am sure you would agree to it in a heartbeat). I suspect she knows this too and she absolutely doesn't want to have them. So maybe the distance is about keeping you at arms length over this issue in case you decide you cannot come to terms with it (because one day you may find that the urge resurfaces and you cannot quell it).

I think your wife's behaviour with the cats is very odd (very love me, love my cats, question my obsession with the cats, question our very foundations as a couple) - this might be the reason for the coldness. I am sure she would be happy if you were equally obsessed with the cats! Whatever is going on with her, you need to get to the bottom of it because I have a feeling doing so will reveal the reasons for the coldness and the distance.

You need to talk to your wife again. I would be very frank with her. The conversation you had with her 3 years ago was not about you wanting to leave her. It was about problems in your relationship. The problems are this (say what they are). Tell her how they make you feel (i.e. you feel rejected because you are playing second fiddle to a pair of cats. You have no relationship, no affection, no joint interests, etc.). Things used to be very different between you and you do not understand why or how things changed. You do not believe the conversation you had 3 years ago has anything to do with what is going on now (apart from the fact that you were talking about the same situation then as you are now) because the distance was already there before that conversation took place and the *mutual* decision was made to separate. I would also tell her that she must know, deep down, that there is a chasm between you. If she denies it, point out the differences in your relationship now and the way things used to be. Doesn't it concern her that things are so different?

If her answer to the last question is 'no', you need to decide what to do about it. Because I suspect you will be stuck in this non-marriage forever if you leave things to her to decide. You have tried leaving things to her to resolve a number of times and it has not worked. So you either take control and insist that the two of you work to get to the bottom of what happened to your marriage. Or (sorry to say it) you consider walking away. You deserve more than this. You certainly deserve to be put before her cats.

I hope you manage to work things out - let us know how the conversation goes, won't you?

Take care,


Helen

[Annie2]

I could be completely wrong here but I really sense that your wife is either depressed, very unhappy and crying out for attention. You recognise the change in her. In a way I can identify with her, but for different reasons. I used to go limp when my husband hugged me, he was the one who initiated kissing and I used to show all my affection to the children. Although this was what I did when I was feeling hurt and rejected. I could never explain to my H that I felt unloved or insecure (our marriage had many problems which led me to this state). I too would deny anything was wrong with me. Yet I was very unhappy and couldn't help myself. Over the years things just got worse and worse between us and eventually I helped myself. I lost a pile of weight, grew in confidence, made lots of new friends and built a life for myself. Unfortunately this was the time my husband decided to have an affair.
I think what I am trying to say is that whatever the reasons for your wifes behaviour there is clearly an underlying negative feeling. Instead of suggesting to her that you do something (see a film together, out of the house, it also takes the pressure off of talking) together and then waiting for her to show enthusiasm, why not surprise her by taking the lead. Book the tickets and surprise her.
I also agree with Helen that you need to talk this all through. But I wonder if your wife is so low feeling it might be a bit much for her to see fairly and she may interpret everything you are saying as criticism. So to accompany your talk, take action and set an example of how you would like things to be. Take her by surprise and show her that you really want to spend time with her. But slowly does it at first. It will be a biggie for both of you to sit down and have a romantic meal out (i'm guessing you may not have done it for a while or at least the romantic part) and the pressure of having things to say could lead to disappointment.
I hope I'm not off the beaten track here, but I feel for both of you. There seems to be a complete breakdown in communication between you and imagine if that could be fixed what you would learn and what you would be able to achieve.
I really hope things work out it's very clear you love her very much.
Good luck,
Annie

[Indi]

Kirk,

Sorry i may be the one who has a very different opinion about this whole thing. My view probably is from a totally different angle.

When you said you wife did not want the kids but shows all the love to the cats, it shows she has lots of love in her. She did not want the kids coz she may not have been sure of her relationship with you. Having kids gives a reason for bonding btw a couple and it makes it hard to for anyone to move out (for kids sake). She has been delaying it coz she was not comfortable with you to that level to have them. I am 99% sure of that and am more sure because of the extreme love she is showing for the cats.

Now in due course of time she is becoming aloof to your feelings. She is with you for some reason and that could be financial (as she is sure she cannot survive on her own) or something else (which i cannot think off). I think you can try to be romantic and take the lead as everyone says. Go with a clear heart and give it your try, not once but again and again. You might also want to find out the reason for her coldness.

If you think you are not reaching anywhere, do not fight or argue. You will have to test the water. Move all you financial savings to somewhere where she has no access. Re-mortgage the house and get the equity out. If she has plans to leave you as the bed is getting cold each day be ready for the surprise. I am not saying you do not have to support your wife even if she decides to leave but if there is any such feeling she will definitely oppose you getting a re-mortgage.

If she does leave you suddenly trust me it would be a shock as according to the laws in this country you stand no where. You will be so low and would not know how to pay for your mortgage. There are chances of losing a job when in depression. I hope i am wrong in all this but you will be doing this for both of you. There was a time when one of the colleagues in my office suggested the same thing to me when my wife left but all i could say was i love her. Since i cannot harm her she will not harm me, but reality is different. Some of men and women become very cold after a relationship breaks down (due to lots of reasons) and the ones who do not speak or vent out there anger harm you the most at the end. The surprise is the biggest killer in life.

Please do not mistake my intension as from deep down my heart i would like to see you a happy person but showing emotions to the cats will get you nowhere. Chase something which is logical like being romantic to her and supporting her. Marriage cancelling is another option but before you go there sort out the financials. Sometimes the outcome of the cancelling can be a big surprise too as lots of hidden stuff comes out. If you are clear from your heart about the relationship I would suggest you to become strong and make it work.

All the best
Indi

[Indi]

Correction its counselling and not cancelling

[iklechicken]

Hi Kirk

I hope I can help a little with this one as just recently I have had a bit of the same thing.

My husband said he did not know if he loved me/wanted to be with me, etc, etc. just days ago. It is too soon to comment on my situation but I think we will get there.

I was absolutely gutted when I heard this from him - you just don't think you will ever hear words like that from your partner. It made me keep telling him that I loved him over and over, clinging and being down right deperate - it doesn't work!! The false hugs and touches and kisses that you get back just make you feel worse. Unfortunately you have to try and give them space even though all you want is to hug them. Today I just woke him up and left him to it - 30 minutes later he was giving me a hug which he really meant!! Like I said its early days but fingers crossed and all that!!

My husband suffers from depression (loads of childhood issues, etc) but he never would admit to it. I have been of the opinion that if I just show him my love for him he will be ok. Truth is he will probs always suffer with the depression. He did not mean the words he said but I reckon they will hurt and haunt me for a very long time. When you decided to split up - the aggreement was not what you or your wife wanted. I could have split with my husband 3 days ago quite easily but it isn't what I want and I believe it's not what he wants but it hurts really deeply. I know I will now have issues of not trusting, feeling ugly, feeling unloved, etc for ages. I really think this is what your wife is suffering from. My husband truly believes that after saying those words to me and then deciding that he does actually want to be with me that I will just forget them and we will carry on as normal - it just doesn't work like that. The smallest comment can plague you even when your partner has forgotten all about it.

I do not have the answers but I do think your wife is suffering from depression. I think that those words from three years ago could be plaguing her and by being distant towards you she is trying to make you feel the same - possibly to try and make you understand how she feels.

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense - I unfortunately ramble on too and as my probs are still quite fresh it makes me ten times worse.

Hope it gets better and good luck.

Lindsey

[iklechicken]

Hi Kirk

I hope I can help a little with this one as just recently I have had a bit of the same thing.

My husband said he did not know if he loved me/wanted to be with me, etc, etc. just days ago. It is too soon to comment on my situation but I think we will get there.

I was absolutely gutted when I heard this from him - you just don't think you will ever hear words like that from your partner. It made me keep telling him that I loved him over and over, clinging and being down right deperate - it doesn't work!! The false hugs and touches and kisses that you get back just make you feel worse. Unfortunately you have to try and give them space even though all you want is to hug them. Today I just woke him up and left him to it - 30 minutes later he was giving me a hug which he really meant!! Like I said its early days but fingers crossed and all that!!

My husband suffers from depression (loads of childhood issues, etc) but he never would admit to it. I have been of the opinion that if I just show him my love for him he will be ok. Truth is he will probs always suffer with the depression. He did not mean the words he said but I reckon they will hurt and haunt me for a very long time. When you decided to split up - the aggreement was not what you or your wife wanted. I could have split with my husband 3 days ago quite easily but it isn't what I want and I believe it's not what he wants but it hurts really deeply. I know I will now have issues of not trusting, feeling ugly, feeling unloved, etc for ages. I really think this is what your wife is suffering from. My husband truly believes that after saying those words to me and then deciding that he does actually want to be with me that I will just forget them and we will carry on as normal - it just doesn't work like that. The smallest comment can plague you even when your partner has forgotten all about it.

I do not have the answers but I do think your wife is suffering from depression. I think that those words from three years ago could be plaguing her and by being distant towards you she is trying to make you feel the same - possibly to try and make you understand how she feels.

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense - I unfortunately ramble on too and as my probs are still quite fresh it makes me ten times worse.

Hope it gets better and good luck.

Lindsey

[Helen]

When I was posting my reponse I initially wondered if Kirk's wife might be depressed too. The thing that makes me think she isn't? She got the cats, started this odd lavishing of time, money and affection on them then suddenly announced she didn't want kids. And then, having observed the fact that Kirk is not as enamoured of the cats as she is, she has gradually withdrawn from him.

I am not convinced that depression is at the root of what is going on here (to tell you the truth, I have no idea what is going on here) but there is definitely something going on and I suspect it is linked to the cats and children issue.


Helen

[Kirk]

Thank you all so much for your help, advice and encouraging words. I can't tell you what a relief it is to talk to *someone* who listens and get some positive feedback. I've suggested to my wife on a couple of occasions it would be a really positive move to go to Counselling, but she really isn't keen on the idea. She shrugs and says we're intelligent enough to sort it out for ourselves. But I disagree!! I see that as another instance of her not wishing to make any effort to resolve things.

Helen - Oooh, you're very good at this! I'm glad you replied (so swiftly) and I thank you.

If she *knows* she's alienating me, and she *knows* she's making me this unhappy, WHY does she persist?? This has been ongoing for... years! As much as I'm loathed to admit it I'm beginning to suspect that she is actively trying to push me away: the coldness; the stonewalling; the rejection of every olive branch I offer... I really don't know why she's building this 'wall'. All I can think is that she doesn't want me around any more.

"...The 'issue' is you almost split over this once and she probably knows if things don't change, this is probably where you will end up. So what does she do about it? Nothing. ..." But WHY is she doing nothing to help us???? Again, all I can think is she doesn't need me.

"...she may think if she focuses enough on the cats, the urge to have kids will go away..." No, I don't think that's factor at all. When she decided once-and-for-all that she didn't want kids (after months, years probably) of thinking hard about it, it was final and irrevocable. When she'd made her decision it was like a weight had been lifted off her. And I was happy she finally made a decision, albeit not the one I necessarily wanted to hear.

"...maybe the distance is about keeping you at arms length over this issue in case you decide you cannot come to terms with it..." No, I don't think that's it either. As I said, I was crushed at the time, but she knows I am the sort of person who can 'deal with it and move on'. It really isn't an issue any more cos it aint gonna happen.

"...question my obsession with the cats, question our very foundations as a couple..." Nail-head squarely hit, there, Helen. If I so much as raise an eyebrow to her behaviour she becomes very defensive, gets cross and mollycoddles the cats even more by way of a punishment(?). So I don't say anything about how wierd she's being - it only rocks the boat.

"...Whatever is going on with her, you need to get to the bottom of it because I have a feeling doing so will reveal the reasons for the coldness and the distance. ..." *sigh* I think you're probably right... I also think I'm probably too scared to find out. She thinks her behaviour is normal. And I've been living with it for so long it has become the norm.

Helen, I *WILL* talk to her again. I can't go on feeling this sad, scared and rejected. This is no kind of marriage and definitely not what I signed up for...

"...Doesn't it concern her that things are so different?..." The last time we talked she didn't seem bothered which seriously worried me. She was very dismissive and reluctant to talk which is unlike her during one of our (very infrequent) 'You And Me'-type discussions.

Right now we're back to square one: I feel like her house-mate. I want to be so much more than that like we once were. What confuses me the most is she seems content to ignore all our problems and carry on as house-mates. Certainly, she is never the one to initiate our 'You And Me'-type discussions. If I don't speak-up (again) I'm worried it will stay this way forever. I really don't want us to split.


Annie2 - I thank you for your thoughts, too.

"... I really sense that your wife is either depressed, very unhappy and crying out for attention. ..." Not sure that's the case. From where I'm standing she's got everything she's ever wanted: nice house, nice job, two cats, and a loving husband. (Children don't enter the equation). I give her all the attention I can, but there's only so many times I can take the rejection before I give up.

"...she may interpret everything you are saying as criticism..." Yes, that happens a lot. That's kinda suggesting she's insecure, isn't it? If so, I can't imagine why. But she does suffer terribly from being very self-deprocating. I heap compliments upon her... and she'd always dismiss it with a curled lip or accept it grudgingly. Very odd for soomeone who is so nice. And looks so good!

"...why not surprise her by taking the lead. Book the tickets and surprise her...." Oooh, I do that a quite a lot. Occasionally it back-fires: I once whisked her off to London for a long weekend. Arranged everything. Top hotel, two west-end shows and a full itinerary of everything I thought she'd enjoy. Problem was she took the wrong shoes and spent the whole time complaining about how much her feet hurt...! I can laugh about it now... :O(

"... There seems to be a complete breakdown in communication between you...", Oh, but we *ARE* talking. It just seems that she can't reach any conclusions and/or act upon them. I reached my conclusion and am trying to act upon it: to stay together and re-build our relationship. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. It's all so one-way.

Indi - "...She did not want the kids coz she may not have been sure of her relationship with you...." "...She has been delaying it coz she was not comfortable with you to that level to have them...." Interesting thought. I hadn't considered that. But at that time there were no indications that there was anything wrong with the relationship. We were very much in love. If that's how she *really* felt, I think we were open and honest enough for her to be able to say that. Which she didn't.

"...If she does leave you suddenly..." She won't. She loves this house and being here with her two cats.

[Kirk]

Oh, and hey, icklechicken, thank you too! Just seen your post.

"...The false hugs and touches and kisses that you get back just make you feel worse. Unfortunately you have to try and give them space even though all you want is to hug them..." Blimey, that's so true.

"...I know I will now have issues of not trusting, feeling ugly, feeling unloved, etc for ages. I really think this is what your wife is suffering from..." This is probably how women 'work'. You have "Emotional Soup" where everything is mixed up together. Men tend to compartmenalise and see more in black-and-white: one problem (which has been 'dealt with' in their eyes) bears no relation to another unconnected issue. I've moved-on from that conversation 3 years ago, but my wife is still stiring her minestrone :O)

Depression? Hmmmm... I'm really not sure. If anyone's depressed around here its me :O(

Thanks, Lindsey. Hope you and your hubby patch things up.



Helen - "...(to tell you the truth, I have no idea what is going on here) but there is definitely something going on and I suspect it is linked to the cats and children issue..." Yep, the more I think about it the more I think you're right. But it's all so delicate talking about this to my wife - I really don't want to uspet her.

[helenrw200]

Kirk

Having read through your messages and all the replies, the one thing that strikes me is that your wife seems very scared to trust. Often when we transfer the affection we'd normally give to a person onto an animal it's because we fear being rejected by people and know animals won't do this. I agree that your wife doesn't sound depressed in the true sense of the word, what she sounds is insecure both in her feelings and yours, this may sound odd as you seem to be doing everything you can to show her you love her, but this one incidence of you agreeing to separate seems to have taken a hold on her mind and shaken her trust in the relationship.If she has even slightly obsessive tendencies then she may have a very hard time getting past this no matter what you say.. or do.

When you took her away for the weekend, instead of relaxing and enjoying it, she found something to complain about, does she often do this ? If so then it would suggest to me that she has already determined a mind set that is going to be very difficult to shake without some sort of proffesional help. Incidentally being intelligent is no indication of being able to sort out emotional problems , in fact it can make it harder as you can become bogged down in technicalities and not see the wood for the trees !

Being attractive, intelligent and nice doesn't necessarily mean having self confidence and your wife seems to me to be doubting herself as much as she is doubting you, again her obsession with her cats would suggest this.

At this stage you and she having " a talk " won't give much progress , it may make her even less likely to respond to you. It's very difficult to undo 3 years of doubt in one or even a series of conversations, she is unlikely to really " listen " to you at the moment , and by listen I mean with her heart as well as ears.

The solution seems to be for you to look to the time prior to the intended separation and try to work out why the distance between you resulted in these feelings, and I don't think that's something either of you can do alone.You really are in a no-win situation right now, if you leave you're proving to your wife that she was right all along, in her mind you never really loved her at all and her cats ARE the only safe thing to love. If you stay then you are accepting that this is the way both of you are going to live.

Incidentally, just because you know in your own mind that you've accepted not having children and are ok with it, doesn't mean your wife believes this.Maybe she's waiting for the pressure to start ? Maybe she feels a sense of guilt that she doesn't want to have children whilst knowing deep down that you do ? Has she ever told you why she feels so strongly about not having them ? Does she doubt her ability to love them ? Care for them ? Or is it simply that she has no maternal instincts ? She obviously is capable of feeling love and caring for something, but pets are much less demanding in their needs and you don't have to worry about them *loving * you back, providing you feed them and fuss them they are affectionate towards you. Is she perhaps concerened that children wouldn't love her ?

It's a very deep and complicated situation and one which every person on here will have a different explanation and advice for ( as I'm sure you can see by the replies ! ) None or all of which may be partly the right one. Hopefully we've all given you some food for thought, but ultimately your situation is unique and as we don't know your wife only you can decide which route to take.

I wish you luck and I really hope you can reslove this as I have to say both you and your wife sound extremely unhappy.

Take care

Helen ( rw )

[Helen]

Being attractive, intelligent and nice doesn't necessarily mean having self confidence and your wife seems to me to be doubting herself as much as she is doubting you, again her obsession with her cats would suggest this...

...The solution seems to be for you to look to the time prior to the intended separation and try to work out why the distance between you resulted in these feelings, and I don't think that's something either of you can do alone.You really are in a no-win situation right now, if you leave you're proving to your wife that she was right all along, in her mind you never really loved her at all and her cats ARE the only safe thing to love. If you stay then you are accepting that this is the way both of you are going to live.Helen,

I agree (to the main part) with you on the first point. The only thing is I am not picking up any self-doubt on her part, apart from her statement about not trusting Kirk on the back of their mutual decision to separate. She seems content with her life as things stand and seems to view Kirk as an interloper almost. On the second point, I am more divided. On the one hand, I do agree that Kirk and his wife are going to need professional help to sort this out because it's a very difficult situation to be in and determining what happened to bring them to this point (and therefore clues how to fix it) is going to be a challenge without outside help. On the other hand, I am not sure that trust is at the root of what is going on here. It's the chronology of events that I am struggling with. Up until the cats arrived, Kirk describes a reasonably happy marriage. They were close - okay, there were the usual ups and downs but nothing earth shattering. His wife would literally jump up and down with joy and excitement when she saw him. Then the cats came and things started going wrong between them.

If trust really is the problem, the unanswered question has to be what happened just before the cats came to change the way Kirk's wife related to him? Did something happen or did this come out of the blue? I just find it odd that Kirk's wife would suddenly start rejecting the one person who, up until that point, she knew was there for her and who she could trust implicitly. The one person who she actually seemed overjoyed to see one day became persona non grata the next. Something must have happened to shift her from her husband to the cats. But what? As stated, the temporary split came later on, after the rejection had been going on for a while so Kirk's wife using this as a reason not to let him back into her life is a bit of a red herring to me. She wasn't letting him into her life before the split. So any professional help needs to focus on the period leading up to the cats' arrival and it should explore everything that was going on in Kirk's wife's life and head, and between them at that time.

Kirk, you have said you are nervous about speaking to your wife. Perhaps you could suggest to her that you get some external help to work on your marriage? The worrying thing, of course, is her complete lack of feeling one way or the other about the current situation. This woman used to jump up and down with joy when she saw you at one point! I find it hard to believe that someone would prefer to be tucked up with a pair of cats than the husband who gave them so much joy at one point. Given her current feelings, if I were you I would be prepared for her to say no to this suggestion. If she does, there is nothing to stop you trying to get answers and tips to try to repair things for yourself so I would think about going on your own for at least a couple of sessions and see what emerges. My only concern is this situation is going to be almost impossible to unravel and resolve without your wife's input and as stated, given that she is content with the current status quo, you may find she rejects this suggestion too.

I really hope that she agrees to work with you on this though.

Take care,


Helen

[heartbrokensusie]

hi there kirk.
Here's hoping this will help!
I too had an obsession, but it wasn't cats it was work!!
My husband tried for years, but with little response from me, until eventually he stopped trying! We became so distant that, I never thought that our marriage would survive, consequently I left.
We are now back together and are both making an effort to revive our marriage.
I DO wonder if your wife is suffering from a depression. Has there been any trauma in her life that she has not come to terms with? You say that you are able to discuss things then move on.......maybe there is something in her past that she needs to explore and feels unable to do so with you if you feel a need to bury past? I wonder if her troubles may be due to a life experience/event that has not been dealt with (just a thought).
I am saddened by the fact that despite your efforts, that your wife is not responding. Sometimes it can take something as dramatic as moving out/a trial separation to jolt someone into realising just what they have got and what they are missing out on. From what you have said, it would seem that you have tried your best but have failed so far. Your wife has got you over a barrel, you are prepared to give, give,give yet appear to have little if nothing in return.I personally think it is time for action. Lay your cards on the table. You both need help if this marriage is to survive.I am concerned that your wife states that you are both intelligent enough to sort this out without counselling. A third party/stranger can be extremely beneficial in times of crisis and this clearly is one!!!! Both my husband and me are professional, intelligent people who thought we could manage without counselling, however it has proven to be "life changing".
You are not happy with the situation you are in and believe me, if you are meant to be together this CAN be sorted out. If not then it is time to move on my friend. Don't delay anymore. Get the wheels in motion. All the very best to you both, my heart goes out to you.

Susiex

[helenrw200]

Helen

I agree that the problem seems to have started before the arrival of the cats, Kirk does say that some distance had begun between them at that point. I think, from what he's said that something had happened to make his wife question either herself .. and her feelings toward him.. or indeed him. For some reason she had a crisis of confidence . I'm a similar sort of person myself in some respects and sometimes one thing that is said - or done - can play on my mind, sometimes for years.It may be something that on the surface appears unimportant, but thinking about it turns into something much bigger and therefore more important than it was originally. That's what I meant by obsessive behaviour.I know when these behaviours occur in me I show a very different attitude to the world at large and even to my partner, making a good show of not caring , withdrawing or becoming argumentative. As a child my feelings were always invalidated and it developed into self preservation not to show weakness.It's taken many years of therapy to learn to overcome these behaviours and be honest with myself about my feelings and emotions.I'm wondering if Kirk's wife is doing the same ?

The only reason I mention self doubt as a possible cause is because she is displaying loving behaviours to an animal that would normally be reserved for a loved one, overly so, which would suggest to me that she feels more comfortable giving love to something that demands little in return, or that she doesn't trust ( either herself or Kirk ) enough to show affection toward him instead of the cats.

I don't know what has triggered this reaction in Kirk's wife, and without meeting or knowing her it's impossible to tell, I think Kirk himself is going to have difficulty getting to the bottom of things as for some reason she seems to have cast him in the role of the *enemy * which is why I suggested counselling may be the only way forward, however this is obviously a personal decision on her part and I can only wish him luck and hope that she values the relationship with him enough to try to sort things out.

Kirk

As I said there will be differing opinions on your problem, as people speak from their own experiences and as none of us know you or your wife personally ,the suggestion for seeking outside help is a good one. You are living in the situation and are struggling to understand what's happening, if you could persuade your wife to talk to someone you may finally know what the problem is, and then will you have a chance, as a couple, to fix things.

Helen (rw )

[Kirk.]

Right. Update.

We had our 'chat' in October during which she said she needed time to think about what she wanted to do. After a couple of days contemplation she emerged saying that we DID have a future together. I took that to mean that there would be an 'improvement' in her behaviour towards me.

Since then I have been the exemplary husband. I haven't put a foot wrong. Been walking on eggshells. I've done nothing to upset her, and I've said all the right things. I have to strike a very careful balance between showing HER affection and becoming too clingy. We've been getting on really well since then but she still finds it EXTREMELY hard to show any kind of affection to me. She actually finds it hard to look me in the eye which I'm finding hard to deal with.

Early December saw our 9th Wedding Anniversary, and if I hadn't have reminded her a few days before, she would have forgotten it. I found that quite upsetting. On the morning of our Anniversary we woke up and I waited to see if there would be any show of affection from her on our special morning. She pecked my forehead and patted my shoulder. I so wanted a cuddle from her - it would have meant the world to me. Am I too demanding?

Meanwhile there has been no let-up in the amount of attention the cats receive. The more I think about it, the more I think you were right: she is lavishing all this affection on the cats as she believes they are the one things that won't leave/betray her (remember our short-lived decision to split was mutual and was simply easier if I was the one who moved out). She hasn't been able to move on from our 'glitch' 3 or 4 years ago - she can't trust me no matter what I say or do. The reason we didn't separate back then was because we both loved each other. I think it's a bit different now.

So, since October when she agreed that we did have a future we've been getting on very well... but there's STILL no improvement in her behaviour. No affection from her. No cuddles, no kisses, no nothing. But then over the Xmas holidays there were 'flickers' of improvement (like she'd actually sit NEXT to me on the sofa and not a foot away).

I felt we needed another chat about how I was feeling totally rejected, her lack of affection towards me and how there'd been no improvement since the last time we had a chat. Long story short, I think the conclusion was that she just doesn't love me any more. I was poring my heart out to her and she said she felt 'nothing'. I was so upset. I want my wifey back. I DO still love her and I desperately don't want to lose her but she's not prepared to give an inch. After that last discussion in Xmas week - during which I felt I was banging my head against her brick wall - she wasn't remotely tearful (unlike me) and she couldn't offer any solutions or suggestions for how to improve our situation. She was citing examples of things I'd done/said which upset her from 10 or 15 years ago which I'd completely forgotten. I'm sure she was just looking for excuses. Adding fuel to the fire, as it were. And how I'd been criticising her etc...

In short, She can't move on and she can't improve. And she doesn't love me. I'm now resigned to the fact that we can't live together anymore. Only one of us is in love, so one of us has to move out. It's pointless living in this non-marriage watching the woman I love throw all HER love, attention and affection at two cats. It's logistically easier if I'm the one who moves out so... it looks like that's what's going to happen. I can't spend the rest of my life pretending to be siblings or house-mates with her. I secretly think this is what she has wanted for quite some time: me out of her way and a nice house with two cats to dote on. I'm going to stay with a friend after the weekend for a month or so to give her some more space and see if there's any change in the way she feels about me.

On the positive side, I have - after great deal of persuasion - talked her into us getting some Conselling and I have already made an appointment for us both. Though I'm not sure if it can help at this late stage.

[markus]

The world revolves around her


she'll never change

you need to pack your bags and find someone more suitable


Dont stay and sacrifice your chance of having children for a women that would rather stroke a cat than give you affection
?

[Annie2]

Hello Kirk,
I'm so sorry to hear things haven't improved a lot. I know it's hard but I think you are making the right decision. You have been the one trying to talk to her and improve your marriage and she hasn't by the sounds of things even tried. I may be wrong but I find it hard to believe that she has simply switched off her love for you. It was there once, she just seems to have given up at some point for some reason.
I think counselling whatever the outcome is a good thing. It doesn't matter what stage you are at. If you were to go full hammer for a divorce right now, it's clearly not what you ever wanted and therefore would be hard. Counselling will hopefully help for you (at least) to find answers and to understand what is going on and has been going on in her head. Right now all you have is what she says and acts like. What is the reason for that, when did it start, do you understand it? If you can find this out in counselling it will help you come to your final decision. I understand that even those who are in the final stages of divorce can still harbour hope for reconciliation. Therefore it doesn't hurt to keep trying for an understanding which may be one that helps you to divorce or get back together.
I don't know how you have coped but I find her behaviour odd. It's not possible to not have emotion and her lack of it is clearly a practiced skill that she has put into place for a reason. She may not even know what that is. At the end of the day you have tried, are clearly still trying and it will cruelly be you that has to call it a day. It doesn't seem as though, despite her behaviour and so on, that she will be the one to 'actually' do that. Instead she is letting her behaviour dictate it. I feel very sad for both of you and sense your frustration.
You must believe in yourself as from what I have read you really have been strong and put everything into what you believed in (in essence that is you and it is was your belief in what you wanted and needed that you did that for). Be kind to yourself, I hope the space you get will help you even if it's not what you really wanted. It's bound to be stressful and a bit alien at first but you can learn to use it to your advantage. Allow it to build you up rather than knock you down.
Good luck Kirk, for what it's worth I don't believe you deserved this.
Annie

[Annie2]

Aaaaaargh, Markus got in before me!!! I spent last night reading previous posts by Markus and cried and cried laughing. Markus, I urge you to never stop you are quite simply the sparkle on this site!!!! I can just about visualise your cheeky smirk as you post replies and I have a feeling you haven't vented out whatever it is yet, so here is hoping for more of 'the world by Markus' posts.
Annie xx