Is it worth the effort?

[Louise779]

Hi, I'm new here and would discuss this with a friend, except I don't have any.

Almost 4 years ago I met a man at work, and fell in love. He was married (not something I am proud of), but within 3 months of meeting he had left his wife and moved in with me. Things were initially tough, but our love got us through, and we are now settled in a lovely home and things are generally good.

The only problem is something that is really important to me. My boyfriend still hasn't got divorced from his wife and has said that he will never marry again as he doesn't believe in it. Marriage is something that is very important to me, something he is totally aware of. I am also worried that his wife is still his next of kin - that I could in theory lose my home if anything was to happen to him. My sister in law is a solicitor and when this subject has come up in conversation has told him that he should make a will and get divorced. He still refuses to do so, despite knowing how much it upsets me. He says he does't want to rock the boat with his wife, but this is hurting me so much, but he doesn't seem to care.

I am getting to the point now where I am questioning our whole future together. I see his attitude as a refusal to move on, and it seems to me that he cares more about his wifes feelings than he does mine. I have spoken to him about this in a calm manner, outlining my concerns, but he still does nothing. He is a very quite man, I have never heard him raise his voice. He rarely gets cross and just goes quiet when he is. Is his reluctance to move on just that he thinks everything is fine as it is and he doesn't indeed want to rock the boat, or is he unable to move on.

What do I do? I am so confused. I love him, but can't see a future with him. By the way, he is 11 years older than me, don't know if this an issue!

Kind regards

Louise

[Annie2]

You really need to read some of the posts on this site. They are full of men who have behaved and are behaving like this. You knew when you me him he was committed (which ever way you want to look at it) to his wife. He didn't sort that relationship out properly, and therefore hasn't moved on. Why did he leave? What were the problems? If you believe it was simply because of you you are very wrong. A married man who strays clearly has problems in his marriage. He never resolved them but has discovered he can't just ignore them even now.
Why did you fall for a married man, was he lying, cheating on his wife? Is that attractive or was it simply you concentrated on what you were getting and chose to ignore reality?
Your relationship was flawed from the start. I think you need to take stock of facts and stop listening to your 'love' feelings. Step out your box, have a good look at your life, his life, and his wifes. Where do you fit in.
I'm sorry if I sound unsympathetic but I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who maybe didn't think properly first before becoming involved in an affair. If you believe he did all the chasing does that not tell you he was running away, not actually chasing YOU. The fact he is showing more thought for his wife is because they had a real, committed relationship together in every way. Your relationship with him is secondary to that while he is still married and refusing divorce. Do you want to stay second best? It sounds as though he has made his mind up on that.

[Helen]

Louise,

I wonder what you expect? This man has already proved he has no loyalty. He dumped his wife pretty quickly after meeting you. Now he is reluctant to divorce her and marry you. Maybe he doesn't believe in marriage because he wrecked the sanctity of his so quickly? He must be accutely aware of how meaningless marital vows are to some people, most of all to him.

I am baffled by two things: your upset about him caring more about his wife's feelings than yours. If this were true, he would never have cheated on her much less left her for you. And your statement about the importance of marriage to you. Again, if that were the case you would never have wrecked another woman's marriage, taking her husband for yourself.

I probably sound unsympathetic. If I am honest, I am not sympathetic. I feel sorry for his wife ultimately. However, I think 'moving on' is important for her and from that point of view, I hope she instigates divorce proceedings herself. If not, then one has to assume there are ties there, be it kids or something else. And maybe this is the boat your partner is referring to. When people linger in a broken marriage for this long, there has to be a reason. There is more to this than your lover is admitting. I guess you will have to decide whether you are content to remain in your relationship as things are because it does sound to me as though he is not going to divorce his wife any time soon.


Helen

[Annie2]

Louise, married or not 3 months was a pretty quick time to live together. I would say it takes a lot longer to get to know someone. To share good and bad and basically to share life. He was sharing life (as they knew it) with his wife when you met him. How could he possibly fully share it with you. Four years later he still can't and doesn't want to. You are responsible for your own decisions, you chose to take on a married man, were there promises of divorce from him back then? Or did you assume that would happen. You met him when he was confused about his marriage. That confusion hasn't cleared up or been sorted because he ran away from it. If you didn't see that then maybe you are beginning to realise it now.
And I agree with Helen 100%. If marriage is so important to you why did you help break one. Why want one with someone who marriage wasn't important to them? You will never have security because you are relying on someone who didn't commit to marriage. What kind of a marriage would it be between two people who didn't have any respect for marriage in the first place?

[Annie2]

Also I wonder why you think you don't have any friends?

[Louise779]

Thanks for all your replies.

After reading them I am in the process of taking a long hard look at myself. Perhaps I have been kidding myself all along. When we met it was a 'love at first sight' thing for both of us. Within days we had told each other how we felt and tried very hard (although evidently not hard enough) to distance ourselves from each other. We did move in together after knowing each other for 3 months, but did not sleep together in this time, only doing so when he had left his wife. I know this still doesn't make it right and I am perhaps making excuses now - kidding myself again.

We had a rocky first year, but each year since has been getting better with regard to us being settled and where we want to be physically (home, town, work etc). There are children involved who I get on with really well, and who spend more time with me when they stay every weekend than they do with their dad. I am also accepted by his family.

I am just very confused at the moment - I really don't want to continue this relationship when he won't move on, but I love him and do want to be with him. When I speak to him about it he tells me he wants to spend the rest of his life with me and why rock the boat when things are calm and easy. I can see his point of view to some extent, but I can't carry on like this.

Ref: the lack of friends - my ex is in the RAF and I did have many friends and an active social life. I returned to my home town when I divorced but as I left when I was 18 don't really know anyone. I am quite shy and reserved until I get to know people, so don't make friends easily.

[Annie2]

What is 'love at first sight'? What do you think love is? For me it's loyalty, respect, committment and something that takes work and time. Sound's a bit boring maybe but I reckon it's something that lasts. Love at first sight sounds more like feeling a certain way because of how you were actually feeling at the time (lonely and then a sudden burst of flattering attention to fill the void). The first sight of some attention maybe but not love.
I'm trying not to sound as though I am giving you a hard time but I just wonder if it was actually him that you 'fell in love with' or was it the attention and all the feelings of want. flattery and belonging that you felt.
You say marriage is important to you and I wonder why. Do you see it as security, you've pointed out how financially insecure you could be. You have not had a successful marriage and I wonder if that is why you are keen to try again. Yet you know that it's not possible without the agreement of your boyfriend who is still married (that just sounds ridiculous to me, your 'boyfriend who has a wife and children but technically lives with you). He clearly doesn't feel he can achieve a successful marriage, whatever his reasons, or why else would he not want to.
I find it odd that you are the one who spends time with his children. How must they feel about that. Why is he hiding from them, what is wrong that he can't build a relationship with them other than being the title of 'dad'. So he hasn't tried to be successful at husband or dad. Is he working to be successful with his relationship with you? I don't think so or you wouldn't be questioning it. He sounds as though he is responsibility shy, he doesn't or can't offer security or reassurance to anyone. It's all very well SAYING he wants to spend the rest of his life with you, but he told that to his wife and kids too. The calm and easy life he is talking about sounds like his way of pretending that his enormous destruction and upset in not only the life he had but his family's hasn't happened or isn't happening. He has his head stuck in the sand, and I bet he feels safe and isn't willing to protect, defend anyone but himself.
I'm sorry but I can't see much hope for the happiness or security you want in life with him. He's proved he is incapable of offering that to anyone else and even himself.
I find it sad that you have a lack of trust in people until you get to know them. It often points to how unsure and insecure we are of ourselves when you feel like that. Maybe this is your time to really get to know yourself and not rely on what 'feelings' someone else gives you. Feelings change, disappear, fade or can be disguised as something else. You need to be strong for you, you have been helping, hiding him from his problems and I bet you didn't have time to understand or address your own. Only you know what you want in life, what is missing and the best way to solve that. I wish you luck.

[helenrw200]

Louise

Annie and Helen raise some valid points.What is marriage to you ? Security ? Life-long commitment ? Why do you feel the need to be married to your boyfriend ?

I know from experience that you can't help falling in love with someone, but, what you can do is resist acting on it if the person you love isn't free to love you back.

By leaving his marriage for you, your b/f has already proven that , to him, marriage vows are not sacred so what have you to gain if he marries you ? It won't stop him leaving if he wants to... I'm not saying he will, I'm not saying he doesn't love you..... but think about it, it could happen even in marriage as his value of it is low.

His unwillingness to get a divorce suggests one of two things to me he either doesn't want the hassle or he isn't being straight with you about his feelings for his wife. And of course, whilst he's still married he can't be tempted into marriage with you, it's a built in get-out clause !

As Annie says, build your own self confidence instead of relying on your relationship with this man to boost it . Is marriage more important to you than staying with him ? If it is then issue the ultimatum... marry me or I leave.. if it isn't then you may have to put up with things the way they are for a very long time, maybe forever.Theyare the only choices I can see from what you've said.

Best wishes

Helen

[Louise779]

Thanks Annie, I really do appreciate your comments.

I must admit I am beginning to think that he is a very weak and selfish man. Both his wife and his sister have told me this, and I leapt to his defence. With hindsight though, they are right. He wants anything for an easy life for himself and b*gg*r everyone else. I am going to talk to him tonight and see if it gets me anywhere - not that it has in the past!

I guess I am a little insecure and unsure of myself. I ended my marriage after 14 years because of my husbands controlling and aggressive ways. Somedays I feel strong and proud to have walked away from that, the next I feel a complete failure. It doesn't help that my boyfriend had had several affairs before he met me while he was with his wife. The likelyhood is that I am one in a long line of many. I can't get that thought out of my head either.

I'll see how our chat goes tonight.

[Louise779]

Thanks Helen

I don't think it would be so bad if he would just get divorced - that alone shows a degree of commitment, which is all I ask. He says exactly what you say - that a piece of paper will not stop him straying if that is what he wants to do as it didn't stop him before. I am positive that the reason he won't get divorced isn't because he wants to remain married to his wife, but that he can't be bothered to get divorced when everything is relatively calm. I guess this is just another example of his attitude to most things. He didn't want to stay with his wife but was too weak to say so, so had an affair. When the going got tough it was easier to beg forgiveness and stay. A few years later the same scenario was repeated.

I really do appreciate all your advice!

Louise

[helenrw200]

Sorry to say this Louise, but, your b/f is coming across as a very selfish man . To not obtain a divorce is not only unfair on you, it's also unfair on his wife who may harbour hopes that he'll come back, although why she would want him to is beyond me. To do this because he can't be bothered is ridiculous .

From everything you've said your b/f is not the most reliable of people, how can you be sure that he won't get bored with you and move on yet again ?

You should be proud that you had the strength to walk away from an abusive relationship with your ex, it takes a great deal of courage to do that. But what you've done is walk straight into another relationship where you're being controlled.

I was with my ex husband for 18 years , so I know how hard it is to walk away not just from him, but everything that you're used to and start again. You did it once, you could possible do it again, it really depends on how strongly you feel about b/f, given that his feelings for you are tempered by his desire to please himself.

Your b/f is a serial adulterer, this type of man rarely changes, and whatsmore can justify their behaviour by blaming the partner/wife. How sure are you that he won't do the same to you ?

I think you need to have a long think before you tackle him.. and be prepared for an outcome other than the one you're hoping for. Good luck !

Helen

[Annie2]

Good luck Louise!
It seems you went through hell with your marriage and you managed to find the strength to walk away. Being strong is not a happy, pain-free skill it's ruddy hard work and extremely painful. You were far from a failure at it, it takes two.
In your boyfriend's case he just takes. Good gracious I can't believe you are one of many! I wonder why his wife hasn't divorced him. I think you walked into this relationship with your head down, you were insecure and unsure of yourself. You can walk right out with your head held high Louise because you have worked it out and seen him for what he is. If I'm wrong and he produces a ring I will eat my fingers (!).
Take care and good luck and sorry if I previously sounded unsympathetic, it was brave of you to identify yourself as the dreaded 'other woman'. I don't for one minute think it was excusable what you did but your not bragging about it. And your pointing out that actually it may have been a big mistake.
I hope things get better for you. xx

[Annie2]

hello all,
Feeling much better. I had my counselling session today and discussed the impending in-laws visit. I realised that past visits from them are always stressful because I am so alone. That while husband finds it so stressful he hides at work, on his computer or any other place of hiding, I am the one in the firing line. For years I have done that, placing myself infront of my children (who suffer sometimes emotionally from visits) and my husband. Even when I left my husband (he hit me, another story for another time) still my inlaws wanted to visit the children in my place of hiding. I didn't see myself as hiding, just working through our marriage problems alone as together was too destructive. They saw it as a handy opportunity to see the children, all about their own needs and not mine or the chidlrens. Not once after husband left did my father in-law phone or visit for support or concern. Being someone who left two marriages for affairs he can't deal with the aftermath. He is a taker, he will arrive at the Christmas period because for him it's all tinsel and warmth. He will not expect, understand or appreciate that this year is different.
I explained to my counsellor that my husband had accused me of being needy and selfish. I felt that to 'insist' on his family giving visits a miss this year I would be seen as being needy if I explained I just wanted it to be us and the children, and selfish for 'not allowing' him to see his family. She explained that she felt in the circumstances I was not being needy or selfish because I was showing a willingness to work at our marriage and a want for the man who wants me to love him.
Anyway to cut a long session short, I left feeling much more positive and stronger about myself.
So thank you Helen, you spurred me into thinking.
Annie xx

[Annie2]

I'm so sorry, completely barking, I've just posted to the wrong thread. Completely ignore that (please?) and I will post on the right thread.....oh dear how embarrasing!!

[Louise779]

Well, I did it. I sat him down and told him how unhappy I was and that I wanted to be by myself. The man was absolutely devastated. He really was of the opinion that because I didn't bang on all the time about how upset I was about his not being divorced yet it didn't matter. He thought that everything was OK, that we were fine as we were, he really had no idea that anything was wrong.

We sat and talked and cried and talked some more, and he begged me to stay, said he would do anything to keep me, he didn't want to lose me.

He is going to talk to a solicitor today about getting divorced, and is going to make a will. This was another worry of mine, that everything I have worked damn hard for could possibly be lost to me if he fell under a bus tomorrow as in the eyes of the law I am nothing to him.

So, we will see how it goes. Thanks for all your help and advice guys, and for giving me the courage to confront him. It really is much appreciated.

Louise
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