Does Life go on - should I look at her picture

[HelenT]

Hi all.
My story, 2 wks off my 20th anniversary, my hubby walked out on me and my 2 sons. We had been through the rigours, nothing felt right, he was sneaking round, txting, phone calls the usual, im sure you all heard it before. When I confronted him he denied it, when he did eventually admite it he swore he would try and save our marraige, then days later refute everything he said. He made me feel at times that I was going out of my mind.
We went to marraige counselling where he announced he never had actually loved me, and on being questioned by the counsellor, (who stated there must be some reason for your change of heart after being with your wife for 30 years) he denied there was someone else.

After 8 months he has produced this "new" girlfriend who lo and behold is the one who has been the 3rd party in my marraige for 2 years. He persuaded me that I was paranoid imagining things that he was NOT having an affair, he pursuaded his parents and family that she was new. When the fact that she has been in the picture was suggested to him he states she was just a good friend. He fails to tell his parents that her husband came to my front door looking for him having found text messages and a birthday present he had bought for her. All fatcs he now conveniently has forgotton.

My problem...I find it hard to move on...its been over a year since he moved on and despite all that he has put me through I fear im still holding out for his return. Ive had a rotten year, he moved out, i had a house fire and now im heading for major surgery.

Today is his 45 birthday and my two sons who have given him the cold shoulder all along are now willing to meet with him and his "new" girlfriend. He has invited them to dinner this evening and she will be there. Its the first time my 15 year old has met with her. He has never spoken about his dad and was quite introvert about all this but now has stated quite forcefully that "its time" to get on with life and "accept" things as they are. Hes willing to move on, and why the hell cant I???? I feel devastated all over again, im terrified of the what might be, I feel im the only one who still hates what all this has done to my family. I feel totally alone. Im afraid of being replaced !!!!! I have never seen this woman and have made a point of not knowing what she looks like as we live in a small town and feel I will never be able to get on with my life (as if I will bump into her everywhere). I know her workplace has a web site and am tempted to look as I feel now that my sons will know her I shoul "know thine enemy" so to speak. I feel Im going out of my mind.....please help me to move on. Please please let me know what you think.

[helenrw200]

HI Helen

Your sons have supported you through all of this but probably now have decided to accept the inevitable.You have far more emotional input than they do, it was your marriage, your life and so for you it is far less easy to forgive and move on. He's their dad at the end of the day, not meaning to upset you but maybe help you see that it's hard for them to " choose ".

To find out after all these years that your husband doesn't love you and in fact is saying he never did is going to take a lot of getting over. He's just negated the last 20 years of your life, I'm not surprised you're not ready to forgive and forget and move on, I'd be frankly furious as well as hurt and devastated.

Everything has happened to you at once in the past year and so it's almost impossible for you to deal with one thing before something else happens to drag you down. Have you had counselling for yourself since your H left ?

I know it's very hard but I think you have no choice but to accept that the marriage is dead and that your H has selfishly moved on. If this woman is going to be a part of his life then it's inevitable that your sons are going to spend some time with her, however she can't replace you, you're their mum. You're within your rights to want to know what sort of person she is if she's going to be a part of your sons' life but in doing this you are gong to cause more pain for yourself. If your sons are older then you really have not as much need to be involved with your H and his new partner as they can be trusted to make up their own minds about how much contact they have with her.

You haven't had enough time to get over what's happened so don't punish yourself by feeling you should have moved on, you obviously loved your H and as far as you were concerened your marriage was for life.You're still going through the grieving process and adjusting so take it day by day and try not to worry too much about things that may not happen, concentrate instead on each small thing and getting through that any way you can.

I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this position , there are many on here who are going through similar and I'm sure they can help you to come out the other side.

Take care.

Helen

[Annie2]

Hello Helen,
If you have read my post you will see that I have been stressing over the 'enemy'. I really feel for you but I also think you are doing amazingly well to be looking after and supporting emotionally 2 children throughout of all this. Their dad sounds like a complete prat though!

As for 'her' why should you worry any more over someone who deserves nothing from you. She barged into your life univited by you, helped to destroy and hurt all that you knew. Do you really wonder still what she is like? She is completely selfish and a coward because she had to sneak around too. You have nothing to hide from and you must stop worrying about bumping into her. She will be the one dreading that. If you are concerned as to how she looks and you worry that she is somehow better looking, slimmer and perfect (I had all that in my head over my husbands tart) let me clear it up for you - what kind of a woman needs attention from a married man? Certainly not a beautiful, popular and successful one. What kind of woman needs attention from a liar, cheat, someone who displays lack of respect, love and committment in a relationship. She was desperate. I eventually looked at a photo of my husband's tart and I was so shocked. She was a hound, absolutely nothing special. Even with my low self esteem of my own looks I thought she was far less attractive than me. But actually it didn't really help, it doesn't matter what they look like. It's the fact that the rest of the world can see through them for what they are but sad, selfish men can't.

My heart breaks when I read about your children meeting her. I too was devastated at the very thought when my husband suggested it. But I think you really must give them more credit. They will eventually see through any lies and false behaviour. I'm sure they too were hurt and devastated but like you they need to find a way to move on. They have chosen their way and you will eventually find the strength to support that. She will never replace you. There are countless families out there in the same boat, I'm sure you know of some. Not one child that I know of has ever shown preference towards the other woman than their mother. You are someone she can not replace in that department. She can't even replace the wife that you were, the honest and committed wife and your foolish husband will find that out.

I really agree with Helenw 200 that counselling would help. Stop giving this other woman so much of your thought and start thinking about you. It is hard to accept that your marriage is over but really Helen would you take him back now? You are not the one with the problem and you will eventually move on. He hasn't sorted out his problems he has only added to them. If he can't move on without lying and cheating then he will never face up to himself and do it again and again. You on the other hand are forced to do it the hard way and that is why it's hurting. But you will be the one who is strong and able to cope with life (something he clearly cant do very well). Keep your chin up Helen and remind yourself of how far you have come. It may not seem like it but I bet you have. I found myself realising that the other day. For the first month my children lived from McDonalds and freezer food (often fishfinger sandwiches). I couldn't function and found it exhausting just thinking about feeding them. I was making (from scratch) dinner the other night and realised just on a daily function side that I had moved on massively. Although on bad days I must confess to making fishfinger sandwiches still. Helen, I bet there are lots of differences to you now as to when it first all kicked off. Try reminding yourself of those and not of how even a year after you feel negatives.

Of course you feel negatives, its going to take lots of time, but you are going to miss the positives if you don't think of those too.

Take lots of care of yourself and keep in touch. xx

[Helen]

Helen,

Yet another Helen posting. I agree 100% with both Helen RW and Annie. And I understand completely how you feel. I was with my ex for just over 20 years. We were married for more than 17 years. And he chose to have an affair with my brother's wife. My son was almost 18 when I found out and he was absolutely livid with his father. Initially, he refused to see his dad but I made him. Sometimes I would nag him and nag him until he went, just to get a quiet life. Other times, I would dial his father's number and put the phone in our son's hand when his father answered. I just said 'regardless of what is going on between me and your dad, he is still your father and he has been good to you. He loves you very much and I am sure he misses you. So go and see him'. Today, he goes to see his dad 2 or 3 times a week - in the beginning he was only going once a fortnight (if that) and then, only after I nagged him.

But the difference between your sons and mine is my son has made it clear to his dad that he hates the other woman with a passion and he absolutely will never accept her. I think the fact that she was once his aunt is adding fuel to his feelings. The relationship is just plain wrong. To this day he has never seen his father with her and he told his dad to make sure she was never around when he visited because he knows he will abuse her verbally. He also told his dad that if they ever have a child together, that child will not be treated like his sibling because, as far as my son is concerned, this woman is a tramp. And he has said this to his dad. It sounds incredibly mean but it is how my son feels. Of course his dad was very upset about it but I am glad our son felt able to let his dad know how he feels.

So I am not exactly in the same situation but I understand why the thought of your sons meeting this woman upsets you so much. But, as Annie says, she is your husband's mistress; she may even end up your sons' stepmother one day. But you will always be their mother and, nice as pie though she may be (I suspect she isn't because she cheated with a married man and broke up a family), your sons will always know how the two of them got together and nothing she does will ever change that.

I think it is tempting to want 100% loyalty from your kids but you have to remember, this is their dad. I am not sure what their relationship is like with their father but if he was there for them and did things with them, they are bound to miss him. You should also look at what your sons are saying in another way. They are not necessarily saying they want to meet this woman. What they are saying is they want you to start living again. To find someone and be happy again. So a few questions for you: Are you going to stay stuck where you are forever? Supposing, as seems likely, your husband never comes back? Would you deny yourself the chance to love someone else for the sake of this man? As Annie says, he is not good enough for you. He isn't. The fact is, he is a liar and a cheat. He lied to you about the affair and is still lying to the rest of the family about being involved with this woman while he was married to you. This man is absolutely not good enough for you because he cannot even admit he was in the wrong. This is where your husband and my ex are identical because there are signs that my ex was involved with my brother's wife for years but he won't admit it. He has ditched friends he has known for more than 30 years because he doesn't want to hear them reprimand him for what he did to me and our son and my brother's family. Not only did he cheat on me and our son, he has thrown away valuable friendships for the sake of a slapper. And now? I am not even sure they are together anymore but my ex being my ex has too much pride to apologise to his friends for turning his back on them. So he is now all alone, aged 42, living in one room in his mother's house. And he is incredibly depressed.

In my experience, once someone cheats, they will always cheat and lie. It becomes second nature. This is why you should think about drawing a line under your marriage. The divorce was hard for me. Even though I filed all the papers, I still bombarded my ex with emails asking how he could have done this to me; I still phoned up in tears (he couldn't deal with it so we always ended up fighting). Yet today I am happier without him. I no longer care what he is doing and who he is doing it with. I even feel sympathy because he has been unwell of late. But I don't lie awake at night thinking about what he did to me any more. There is no point. I have no doubt I would not have got to this place if I hadn't taken the decision to divorce him 4 months after we separated. We separated in July 2005, spent a month kidding ourselves that he wanted to work things out (because he refused to stop contacting the other woman) and I told him I was divorcing him at the end of August. Then I sat on the papers until November 2005 (I wanted to be sure I was making the right decision) and then I filed with the courts. And I have no regrets. Not a one.

As has been recommended, think about having some counselling. Even though I was a basket case in the early days, 4 counselling sessions later I knew that divorce was the only way forward for me. It really does help. And remember - you have coped so far - the two of you have been apart for a while and you have survived. And you will continue to survive AND get over this. Trust me.

Take care,


Helen

[Annie2]

Helens (!)

I have an aunt who is in a very similar situation to Helen T. Her husband (now ex) did exactly the same. Unhappy about marriage, no concrete reason, he left they eventually divorced and bang out of the blue another woman. The evidence that she was involved with him while he was married to my aunt is so clear yet he denies it. My aunt has two children (his too) and she had to go through what you are going through. Her children at first didn't want to meet the other woman, resented her and so on. Eventually they did but with no enthusiasm. She is nothing to them but just a part of the dad's, they feel sorry for and still a lot of resentment, messy life. He married the other woman and despite saying he had never wanted children really and wouldn't have any more they had another two kids. He is in his 50's with a new born baby and is far from coping. But the biggest laugh of all is through feedback from his first two children knowing that my aunt is living her life to the full. She has moved on because she has been through the mill and waded her way through. He chose a quick fix to sort out his problems yet never sorted them out, added massively to them though. His now wife (the cheating, selfish cow who helped him to split up his family and helped him not to realise what his problems actually were) is miserable. She is stuck with parenthood with a man who has been there and done that. He can't be just there for her, he has two children from his first marriage, her children have to share too. Does that sound like a perfect relationship. It was flawed from the start, do you see? The children involved certainly see it. He is bang in the centre of responsibility and blame yet is still grabbing all he can and rejecting all he can. So much so he has no idea what he ever had now has. His life is now out of his control.

I had another aunt whose husband cheated on her, she suspected and followed him one night and discovered him with his tart. My aunt then went home to their children, took an overdose. The children found her the next morning dead. My uncle married his tart (how they managed to live with themselves I will never understand). To cut a very long story short, it was another flawed relationship. Again another man who didn't sort himself out, they went on had more children, he went on had more affairs, divorce and even more affairs. Twenty years after his first wife killed herself because of what he did he is still at it.

I think what I am trying to say through all of that is that you really need to concentrate on you. I completely understand how difficult that is when it's not what you have been doing since marriage and children. But now this is your time. Your children will reap the benefits. You've got a whole life ahead of you still, and as you know you just don't know what is coming next. Take things slowly, set yourself tiny targets everyday (ie I'm not going to think of him or her for 30minutes I'm going to do something else). You married your husband because you knew and loved him, he changed not you. He changed for the worse. There is nothing wrong with change but it needs to be an uphill progression, he has sunk to the bottom. You don't have to and you won't. You are acutely aware of how you feel and why, he wasn't and more than likely never will be. You are not in denial, he is. You are honest and with that honesty you will make the right choices for you, he won't ever be able to do that for you.

annie xxx

[Annie2]

Just had another thought. You say that you have never looked at her picture since this has happened. Ask yourself why. I bet you think it's because you didn't think you could bear to. I think it's because deep down you know she has no place in your life, she doesn't belong there. You didn't invite her in and you don't need to make her so important by having to sneakily look at a picture of her. I think you have had amazing strength so far to not do this. Try thinking more about why you haven't and you may find your answer as to whether you should or not. I don't mean think about her, I mean think about you and what is best for you.
Off to cook tea now xx

[HelenT]

Ladies, Thank you, all of you, it is such a comfort reading your replies. When I wrote my mail this morning at 3am I felt without hope. Throughout the day Ive logged on and each and every one of you have stopped me dead in my tracks and made me think. Most especially today, when my solicitor rang to say it all not over, he is still taking court proceeding to make sure I don get my hands on his pension,. I emailed my ex who apparently has no idea why its still going on. I received his reply today, where he is asking me my arrangements for going into hospital for sugery. I will be in there for 3 weeks and have a 3 months recovery period where I need to learn to walk unaided again. He wanted specific "recovery times" as he is going away the first week of December and will need to leave my sons alone (19 and 15) ok they are fine on their own but not for a week. Ive looked after them single handedly for the past 15 months, they "call" to him occasionally, he has never made proper arrangements to see them regurlary but then they are not that interested. I cant believe he is going away irregardless that he is need at this time to mind his sons and know Im dependant on him. This day has been a rollercoaster of emotions. I cant believe the man I loved since I was 16 has turned into such a selfish person. Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to write to me, Its scary to see so many in the same boat. I read the Mid Life Crisis mail and felt like it had been written about me.

[Annie2]

I'm so pleased to hear you sounding a bit more positive. Your ex is such a loser! Sorry but I do feel strongly about that. The reason you are shocked about him changing and turning into a selfish git is because you throughout lifes changes have remained true to not only yourself but those around you. You are worthy!!!
I wish you the best of luck with your surgery. Keep in touch!
Annie xx
ps. the mid life crisis thing is VERY scarey but I still can't help but feel it's such a sad excuse.

[Helen]

Hon,

I would say privately to your solicitor that you do not give a rat's behind about his pension UNLESS it is worth more than the equity in the marital home! BUT make sure he gives you the home, uncontested, in return for you going along wiith the divorce (find out how much equity is in both areas before you do because with 2 kids, you are entitled to more than half of everything.). If necessary ask for some bucks to back off. You have had and raised kids and cleaned house after this man. I am sure you can put a price tag on this devotion with your solicitor/lawyers....

As for him being happy, ultimately, he won't be. Eventually. I know 98% of the time this is true! At first he will be too in love with the other woman. But women are women. She is a heartless, selfish cow but she is also a woman and, in that respect, she is no different to you. Okay, the sex might be blinding but I am sure it was with you...at first. He will soon get bored with her and then what? She will soon start making a nuisance of herself, with demands that he stay home with her and do stuff with her. She may want kids. Then, 5, 10 years from now he will find himself in the same relationship with her as he was in with you. And then he might become a serial dumper, much like the man Annie describes.

He has chosen to abandon you and his kids for this slapper. Do not give anything away because of fond sentimentality. Do not worry about the other woman or yearn to punish her but accept his and her eventual misery as the price of his betrayal and abandoning you and his kids for her. Because if they have kids, she will begin to feel ever more crippling guilt, knowing she broke up a home for her own selfish ends... I doubt he will feel anything because he sounds like a right selfish so and so!

In the meantime, make HIM pay whatever you are entitled to legally for raising his kids, giving up dreams of a potential career and keeping house for him to run around with someone else.

I hope things go well. Post here and keep us updated, won't you?...


Helen

PS: eyes blurry and a bit confused due to Graves Disease so I am stuggling a bit, hence not posting as much as I normally do of late...

[troubled]

Hi,
I hope you don’t mind a male perspective on this. The reason I am writing this is that I too have gone through a similar thing. At the moment I am desperately trying to see my son, and basically jumping through hoops on her whim. She breaks contact for no good reason constantly, and for weeks/months at a time. Our relationship is dead (the Decree Nisi is issued tomorrow). However, the relationship between myself and my son will never ever die. We miss each other very much.
The parallel with you story is that the other man, sneaking around, and a he is “just good friends” stuff was very similar to your situation (no counselling though…..she refused). I recently found out he is constantly around our family home and with my son. It’s pretty hard to take. I know what its like to fear being replaced.
I just want to say that to “move on” is the wrong phrase to use. Moving on implies an abdication of memories of the past, to deny they ever occurred. Many people who cheat do this. It is almost impossible to “move on” when, despite what may have happened in the adults’ relationship, children bind parents together. So don’t be hard on yourself to move on. But know this - you are worth 100 times more than your husband or the other woman- precisely because you didn’t move on. You hung on in there and dared to hope. That is to be admired in our society where everything, including relationships, is “disposable”. I have got to admit that like you I have constantly questioned myself. What did I do wrong? What has he got that I have not? Are they just better suited? In the end though it sounds that like me you loved your family and partner and would have done anything to avoid this-including any self improvement or changes to your lifestyle-no matter how difficult.
Often it is easy for the other man/woman because they have nothing to loose, no responsibilities and no commitment….and that is their attraction. If your partner can’t recognise that, and just wants to bail out and “move on” then who is the weak one in the relationship and who is the strong one? Is not facing your relationship “problems” by emotionally leaving your partner behind (and often blaming them!) more important to them than somebody who loves them and proves it by not emotionally moving on and hanging on in there?
Sorry for this “stream of consciousness”, but I do feel that commitment and loyalty are no longer recognised as having much worth anymore. Just because you find it difficult to move on should be admired, it is not some type of character flaw! Your Ex is an idiot. It will end in disaster (hopefully).
PS. I bought a sports car and took up kite-surfing when I had my mid life crisis. I did not break up my family!

[Helen]

Troubled,

I don't think anyone is suggesting that HelenT abdicates memories of the past. From personal experience, this is impossible. Despite what my ex did to me, I still remember the many good times we had...and the bad. I also remember everything that led to the breakdown of the marriage. What we are saying is it is time to let go emotionally of the place his actions left her in. It is also time to let this man go. For the sake of Helen's sanity, for the sake of living a LIFE, She cannot stay there forever. She cannot stay with him either. It literally is time to move away from the negative feelings, the hope that he will come back (because everything is suggesting he never will) and start to heal and, (eventually) find someone new. Otherwise in 10, 20, 30 years, Helen could still be stuck where she is, still hurting and there will be no sign of the man she thought loved her. This is why her sons are urging her to do something. This is why we are all adding our voices to her sons.

Like you, we have all been there. Although I filed for divorce only 4 months after parting from my ex, our marriage was in its death throes for 3 years and during that time I fought and fought to save it. He didn't. I agree - many people walk away far too quickly these days. But I also think people need to know when they are flogging a dead horse and it is time to walk away.


Helen

[helenrw200]

Troubled

I agree with Helen, there comes a time for everyone when a relationship has ended that there is no point holding on any more, this is what is meant by moving on. It doesn't mean , of course that you have to forget the love you felt for this person, but more that you have to come to realise that this person no longer loves you, and by not moving on yourself you are condemning yourself to many years of heartache.

HelenT HAS shown her commitment and loyalty to her ex, he chose not to want it, should she now wait and see if one day he will ?

Until HelenT can move on emotionally she will never find happiness or peace of mind and after all she's been through it's the least she deserves.

Helen ( rw )

[troubled]

I agree with you guys. I probably didnt phrase it very well.
I think HelenT is completely in the right and has tried her best to hold it together.
She has shown loyalty and commitment. And above all doesn't deserve this and should not "hang on in there". He certainly didn't (neither did my ex)!

Its just the phrase moving on I have a thing about. Especially when its used as an excuse by the exiting spouse. As in "its time you moved on" when in fact they mean "I have emotionally distanced myself and dont want to try". Sorry-its a phrase that was used by my ex. (a bit sensitive).

And I agree sometimes you have to let go to have a chance at grasping happiness.

I know I find it difficult.

I think most loyal people do.

[troubled]

BTW I totally agree with Annie2 about the midlife crisis stuff being an excuse.
Ok, sometimes you dont like the way your life is heading. But you shoudl appreciate what you have. And having somebody that loves you-even if things get in a bit of a rut-is a wonderful thing.

[Helen]

Troubled,

I am not surprised that you have issues with that phrase if this is the way your partner used it. I don't know how long the two of you were apart but frankly, I am stunned that someone would be this insensitive to a partner who thinks there might be a chance of repairing their relationship. 'It's time you moved on' - according to who? It isn't for her to tell you it's time to do anything! No wonder you have issues with this! My ex's family said similar things to me. We had only been apart a couple of days and his mum kept saying 'you need to move on'. It made me so angry - like she thought her son was justified in chucking me to one side and I should just get over it. I was with him for more than 20 years and she always used to say I was her daughter. Yet the minute my marriage broke down, she made it clear that she had no loyalty towards me whatsoever. I was barely out the door when she was making tea and serving cake to my ex's tart who she knew to be my brother's wife. So there you go. I gave her a piece of my mind and haven't spoken to her for more than a year and I have no intention of speaking to her again.

Still, you are better off out of it if what you have said is any indication of the character of your soon to be ex - my view.


Helen

[troubled]

Thanks Helen,
She used that phrase just before we split!

It scary sometimes how people repeat the same behavoiurs. Exactly the same thing happened with my mother-in-law. She absolutely thought I was wonderful for her daughter....until the split then I couldn't do anything right. She just blindly justfied her daughters actions to everyone. When even her friends questioned her daughters behavoiur (they liked me too) she freaked at them. My ex really is a control freak. I think toward the end she surounded herself with sycophant friends. Those who questioned her behaviour where dismissed. Not a very balanced environment! She is a very aggressive person. I think people are a bit scared of her. Certainly her mother and some of her friends made the situation worse by their unquestioning support.....always a bad move for a egomaniac!


My friends agree with you that I am better off out of it.
But we had many brilliant years that where forgotten about because of a "bad" 2005/6.

Anyway sorry for highjacking this thread!

I really really hope HelenT finds somebody worthy of her loyalty when she is ready.

[HelenT]

Hello again Ladies & Troubled. Thank you all again for your input. I understant fully what you all mean about that dreaded phrase "moving on". I know exactly what it means, buck up, stick a smile on your face, the world is now your oyster, plenty more fish in the sea etc etc. Your world has been destroyed by the one person you loved, cared for, adored relied on, my best friend from my teens. And hey, Mother in law, father in law, family friends, say ok now time to move on. When all that strikes you is you have been picked up, stomped on and thrown away. I know I know....time is a healer, I know eventually this too will pass. But I guess I willhave to learn to believe in myself, I know Ive come through a lot.....the seperation, the house fire, learning to cope on my own, a new influential job......and I need to allow myself to say hey girl you did it, and you didnt need a controlling self centred bully to keep this boat afloat. It is sould destroying to be left to cope but as you all say...who will be the loser in the end. I know I resent that he is now living the life I was supposed to have, flying off to the US, spending money that should have been my nest egg for my old age, but hey the young years are passed, she willhave the aging decrip grumpy old man, they are welcome to each other. Again, thank you all for your time and energies and making me feel as if im not alone in all this. The kindness of strangers never ceases to amaze me. Thank you again. And I hope you all will find happiness you so wished for me.

[Annie2]

Hello all,

I think what I mean by mid-life crisis being an excuse is that throughout life everyone has one crisis or another. Death of someone we love, unemployment, debt. One crisis can lead into another. A 'mid-life' crisis hints that it's some sort of medical condition, expected or reached by a certain age. But what is the crisis? We may get to a certain age and start reviewing our achievements, unachievements or just our life in general. Because of our age we get a sudden urge to change, to do something different or to regain something we had, (sadly some folicly challenged men try and regain hair - big mistake!). All of this could be described as mid-life behaviour. We don't describe teenagers as having a crisis, simply their behaviour. We have certain expectations of them but put the rest down to their behaviour. Despite whatever that may entail they can show responsibility at that age. The crisis in mid-life, for example an affair, is self-inflicted by whoever is having the affair. They made choices, they chose and therefore their own created crisis. Compared with other examples of a crisis you can see how a 'mid-life' crisis is such a weak excuse.
I of course may be talking complete fishcakes here as I'm 33 (am I mid-life yet? I blooming hope not, I've still so much I want to do).

[Annie2]

So sorry Helens and Troubled,
I completely missed reading the above as i didnt realise there was a second page. I hope I don't sound as though I just ignored everything you said (technically I did).
Wishing you all the best
Annie2 xx

[helenrw200]

Hi Annie

Well I'm 43 and I don't feel I've reached the " mid age " as yet. My partner is 38 and is already far less energetic than I am, and fast turning into a grumpy old man to boot. My ex husband turns 48 in December and has just bought a Ford convertible ( he couldn't afford the Mercedes model lol ), has started going to rock concerts again and is trying to grow his ( thinning ) hair, so I have a partner who is young but acts older and an ex who thinks he's 17 again ! Mind you ex's new g/f is 12 years older than him and still thinks she can look like a barbie doll, my son remarked the other day that he thinks she must use crack filler on her face as she looks as if she would crack it if she smiled, and that from a 17 yr old autistic who normally doesn't even notice if he's wearing odd socks ! She's an ex topless model who thinks she's still in demand and that all men should be awed by her great beauty. Well ex obviously fell for it, but then he always has needed glasses.

Conversely ( to the rock concerts ) ex has also taken to going to the ballet and opera, this from a beer swilling ex rugby player who's idea of refinement was using a plate to put his butty on, new g/f's influence I'm sure. But you know what ? I'm happy for them, for him... he's doing what he wants ( or what she wants maybe ? ) and despite having a sly chuckle now and then I say good luck to them. MLC or not, he's not going to grow old without a fight, maybe it's just relief on my part that I don't have to go through his MLC with him, but can watch from afar !

Helen

[Helen]

Helen RW/Annie,

I am laughing my head off at your posts!


Helen

[helenrw200]

troubled

Telling someone to move on before they even left is a bit rich so not surprised you dislike the term ! It's a shame that the last year has eclipsed all the good memories you had of your marriage, but it does happen that way to begin with.

My dad was bereft when my mum ran off with his best friend, he went into a deep depression that lasted most of my childhood, interestingly he told me the other day that he thinks he had a lucky escape , and he pities my step dad because he has to live with my mum ! Dad is now very happily married to a good woman who is everything my mum was not . Mum on the other hand has run up so much debt she's having to sell her house and move into rented and has managed to convince her husband that it's all his fault ! She really is a piece of work sometimes.

Eventually you'll be able to remember the good times without bitterness and then you will really know ( sorry have to say it ) you've " moved on " !

Helen

[Annie2]

hello again Helens and Troubled,
Just laughing and reading your posts. And then.....realised I am the only one who hasn't moved on. I'm still trying to work things out with husband who had an affair. It was 8mths ago when he announced he was happily in love with someone he had 'liased' with for 6 weeks, no longer wanted children and wife because poor old him didn't think he could make us happy!
Anyway to cut out all the other rubbish he spilled, I am now faced with his family planning on spending xmas and New Year with us. They live in Scotland, we in England so we don't see them often. Part of his new realisations as to his 'reasons' for having an affair and the 'reason' he is 'the way he is' are blamed on his family. Dad ran off with secretary only to dump her 20yrs later for new model. Mum married a loser who mentally abused him. All previous visits from them involve husband hiding either at work or on his computer. I do all the entertaining with the odd appearence and non-committed input from him.
I can't put in to words how I feel about them visiting. I am barely surviving at working at our marriage without having to work at outside relationships connected to our marriage. Despite him saying that he will take his precious time off work (time he could show us that is for me and children only) I feel overwhelmed by the prospect. It will be coming up to a year since his big announcement and a year since he first 'got to know' his tart. I am struggling to deal with that and the thought of having to deal with anything else is just too much.
I hope you will take this lightly and not as an insult but in a weird way I wonder if I would be coping better alone, without him and family, this year. Clearly and relistically if we weren't together he would have child access (although over my dead body would he have my children at xmas) and I haven't had to face that. Am I being ridiculous and selfish? I don't know why I feel it's all too much, I know I am going through some sort of weird up and down feeling all the time - depression - but I can't even work out why their visits just make me want to sit and cry.
I know I have switched the subject but I was hoping due to your own experiences you could help me shed light.
Annie xxxx

[helenrw200]

Hi Annie

In your situation it isn't possible to move on in the true sense. You're still living in the situation created by your H . Has he shown remorse ? Has he cut off all contact with the o/w ? Has he shown he is commited to working on the marriage ?
If he's done all that and continues to do so then he deserves a second chance and in that case you need to forgive ( not forget , that won't happen ) If he hasn't done this.. and more.. then it's not surprising you still feel the way you do.

My first husband was a serial cheater, I was very young when I married him ( 16 ) and was so totally in love with him that I kept forgiving him, couldn't imagine life without him. By the time I was 19 we had an 8 month old son, this was when ex then decided he didn't want the responsibility of wife and son and basically disappeared. He was in the RAF at the time and went abroad, I saw him maybe 3 times from then to now and my son has seen him once !Took me a while to get over him, but I got there.

Second husband was a fairly good man, emotionally a bit cold, but faithful to my knowledge, but I couldn't love him, he knew this from the start, but I tried... for 18 years, in the end I had to leave, wasn't fair to either of us and as I said in my previous post he's with a new g/f now and very happy, so it was the right thing to do.

Present relationship is a disaster, goes from one crisis to another, partner's parents were very cold toward him when he was growing up, father abusive , mother controlling, he hasn't seen them now for 15 years, but the effects of his upbringing are still around. He hates being checked up on ( as he sees it ) because he wasn't allowed privacy as a child, can't show his feelings , doesn't know how. Finds it difficult to share anything, even himself because as a child they were never allowed to own anything, it belonged to all of them ( there were six children ) and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Your H's parents sound like a nightmare, so I'm not surprised you don't want to have them visit, one question, why are they coming ? If your H doesn't want them to, and you don't , why agree to it ? Xmas is a fraught enough time especially in your circumstances so why let them stay ? OK so they live a distance away and want to see the children, but I wouldn't agree to a visit of this length, and I'd make H tell them, he has put you in the situation of being depressed because of his affair, only right he should be the one to put them off.

Annie, the one thing that comes through in all of your posts is your sense of humour, despite the horrendous things that have happened and the strain you are under you still manage to find humour, that's your strong point . I don't think you're being selfish at all, it's sensible not to want to add to the strain you're already under, I'd seriously consider putting the in-laws off for this year and if they don't know what's happened then maybe they should.

Take care.

Helen

[Annie2]

Thank you Helen. You are right it is probably the added strain that seems to much. Don't know about the sense of humour though, I think I might simply just have gone barking mad!
Annie xx

[helenrw200]

It could be that of course , but I think you're smiling in the face of adversity, and that will be enough to keep you sane I'm sure !

Helen

[Annie2]

hello all,
Feeling much better. I had my counselling session today and discussed the impending in-laws visit. I realised that past visits from them are always stressful because I am so alone. That while husband finds it so stressful he hides at work, on his computer or any other place of hiding, I am the one in the firing line. For years I have done that, placing myself infront of my children (who suffer sometimes emotionally from visits) and my husband. Even when I left my husband (he hit me, another story for another time) still my inlaws wanted to visit the children in my place of hiding. I didn't see myself as hiding, just working through our marriage problems alone as together was too destructive. They saw it as a handy opportunity to see the children, all about their own needs and not mine or the chidlrens. Not once after husband left did my father in-law phone or visit for support or concern. Being someone who left two marriages for affairs he can't deal with the aftermath. He is a taker, he will arrive at the Christmas period because for him it's all tinsel and warmth. He will not expect, understand or appreciate that this year is different.
I explained to my counsellor that my husband had accused me of being needy and selfish. I felt that to 'insist' on his family giving visits a miss this year I would be seen as being needy if I explained I just wanted it to be us and the children, and selfish for 'not allowing' him to see his family. She explained that she felt in the circumstances I was not being needy or selfish because I was showing a willingness to work at our marriage and a want for the man who wants me to love him.
Anyway to cut a long session short, I left feeling much more positive and stronger about myself.
So thank you Helen, you spurred me into thinking.
Annie xx

ps. most awful moment of the day was posting all the above on a completely unrelated thread.....there are too many Helens and I got a bit confused..oops

[Helen]

Annie,

I think your husband has some brass neck calling you selfish and needy. This is his family yet you are the one who has to deal with them. He hides away, either at work, with his computer or elsewhere. He also hid away from your marriage when he sought refuge in the hound's arms and refuses to deal with your angst as a result of this. Instead, you are 'causing problems', I have no doubt. In his mind, anyway...

He sounds as selfish as Louise's partner. Sorry to say it. Everything is someone else's fault. His upbringing, his mother, his father, his life, his wife, his kids, the responsiblities you 'forced' on him...the list goes on and on. Everyone else is to blame but him. Yet he is the one who is choosing to hide. He chose to marry you and he chose to have kids with you too. And he also chose to have an affair... You didn't make him do anything.

Go figure. What is he - 12? Tell him to get an effin grip if he starts again! He is a man and should be beyond the hurts of childhood. Yes, I know childhood grief can run deep but he has choices. He either deals with them or he shuts up and starts behaving like the husband and father he is - and this includes taking ownership of his actions AND responsibilities instead of shunting them on to you all the time.

Next time he tries running these lines at you, run them straight back at him and confront him with the facts. If he gets angry, tell him to go eff himself! At the end of the day, the facts cannot be denied and the facts are he is ALLOWING his past to influence his actions as a man yet he isn't man enough to admit this is what is happening. None of what happened is your fault - not at all.

And to answer your original question, the question heading this topic, no, I do not think you should look at this woman's picture. To do so would be to put a face to an anonymous woman. To make her human and more real. Don't do it unless you are ready to take more definitive action with your husband and his selfish, self-absorbed behaviour.


Helen

PS: Sorry to be one of a 'herd' but you will get used to our very different posting styles - and issues!