Struggling To Make Sense Of It All

[OutsideCentre]

Hopefully you folks out there can help me try to make sense of what is happening to me. I've been quietly viewing the various posts on this site since my wife of 16 years advised me that she no longer "loved me in the right way" back at the end of April. The advice & comments that I've seen within the forum have been very supportive & useful & its been personally encoraging for me that despite how I feel, I now know I am far from the only one with problems. :confused:

Sorry, I'm afraid this may be a long post!

My Wife is 37 & I'm 39.

Generally, our marriage has been fantastic. We'd had very few problems or arguements for the 1st 14 or so years with most issues resulting from my wifes need to take on problems that other members of her family had and, in effect, make them her own & often, subsequently "ours".

From my perspective, our problems really began when she started to become close friends with a woman over the road who had recently moved to our village with her husband and 2 daughters. Her children are virtually identical in age to my 2 kids (a daughter, 14 & a son, just turned 11) and subsequently as they lived nearby and were in the same classes at school the kids became "best friends" as did their mums.

This woman, who I shall refer to as "M" had been married for a similar period as us but, as her "controlling" husband had worked permanent late/night shift for duration of their married life and showed little interest in their girls, did not have the "happy, loving relationship" that my Wife & I enjoyed and soon seemed to "latch" onto my wife for company and companionship at every possible opportunity. As time went on they started to spend more and more time with each other, with my Wife just "popping" over the road with the kids, at any given time sometime for several hours, often leaving me alone and excluded during weekend or evenings. Needless to say, this soon became a bone of contention with me and resulted in a number of heated arguements especially on occasions when she returned having had a few glasses of wine and was up for a scrap!

Eventually, about a year ago, having been confiding in my wife for some months previously, "M"'s marriage broke down when she told her husband that she didnt love him and wanted out. During the traumatic time that followed (which demanded even more of my wife's undivided attention!) they sold their house and "M" moved away to a nearby village (10mins drive away - Not far enough by a long way in my opinion!).

During "M"'s difficult period I noticed a big change in my wife "L". It seemed that her sympathy with "M"'s situation was such that she took on her issues as if they were her own & during odd disagreements that we had at the time she seemed to act as if I had treated her as badly as "M"'s husband had "M" and that the problems that they had in their disfunctional marriage were now somehow problems we were having! As you can imagine, the more I tried to argue my corner the more i appeared (in her mind) to back up her somewhat warped viewpoint. I think this must be when she started to feel some resentment toward me.

Following another "M" related arguement back at the end of April which resulted from her suddenly dropping everything to go to "M" who had once again sent her a text indicating that she was upset (they send around 1000 texts to each other every month even though they're together most of the time!). She dropped the bombshell out of the blue advising that she didn't think she loved me in the right way anymore and was not sure she wanted to stay married to me! What made it more hurtful was that despite an agreement that we'd always had regarding talking about issues, she had, apparently, felt this way for sometime without telling me!

She assures me that there is no one else involved & while I believe that there is nothing sexual between "M" and "L" I am convinced that she is emotionally addicted/obsessed to the extent that all of her emotions are focused on this one person forsaking virtually all others!

I personally think this suits "M" fine as now, she is hardly ever alone!

"L" & I were always best friends & talked together all the time about everything. Now she shares everything with "M" and just makes small talk with me! The Kids have no idea that there is any issue:(

I am willing to try anything to save our marriage, I have followed all the advice I can find & downloaded a couple of "self-help" ebooks, but despite my efforts to change in reaction to her comments she insists that she is also trying hard to regain her feelings. I see no evidence of this, she is not interested in counciling as she "knows how she feels" (but does not know why!)

Despite her claims she seems blinkered & totally focused on ending our 16 year marriage as soon as possible and maintains that her feelings have not changed and she cannot see the point of prolonging the agony. I, on the other hand believe that "time" preferably with her away from "M"'s influence, is our only hope!

How can someone so warm, caring & loving for 18 years change into a cold emotionless shell so quickly?

I am the sole money earner at present & have always handled absoluteley everything financial (at my wifes request) from the day we moved in together. I am really concerned about her as I cannot get my head round why this is happening, what is going through her mind and how on earth she plans to support herself & our lovely children if we seperate.

Can anyone help me make sense of this?

Yours, OutsideCentre

[Kimberley]

Hi

I have read through your post and can offer my sympathy it does seem to be that you have been pushed out by your wife's relationship albeit probably just friendship. I see that perhaps she sees in her friend a new independence since the demise in her own marriage which may be making her question her own marriage it does happen.

It is a shame she wont consider counselling but leave it for now and suggest it again later on. I think that perhaps now she has moved from over the road it may assist in time but at the present she needs a friend.

Perhaps things may have gone a bit stale in your relationship and perhaps you could work at some romance and some time together without the children to try and concentrate your wife's mind back on her marriage and that you are worth keeping hold of - it is a long relationship with children and thoughts must be given to them. Also the fact she does not work and is reliant on you and if you leave then a single mother on benefits will not have the security and piece of mind she has at the moment.

I know this friend she now see as the enemy since her arrival into your lives has caused upheaval as you see it but perhaps before that time your wife was perhaps lonely? There could have been other under lying problems prior to her arrival and that perhaps you had missed it is easy to do when you work full time and have a family. I have been guilty of it myself.

Any way I am not a Counsellor and not as experienced and wise as Helen but this is my over view and I wish you well and if you feel the need to post then you will always receive a warm welcome and helpful advice from the forum. Down take the world on, on your own.
Kimberley X

[OutsideCentre]

Kimberly,
firstly, thanks for your comments. You've raised a few points that I need to think about.

Regarding romance. My Wife's always been a bit of a tom boy and has never been especially romantic. Public affection, flowers & the such like make her feel uncomfortable.

I surprised her with a weekend in Dublin for her Birthday back in May (my parents looked afer the kids) and although we were not intimate over that weekend (and have not been since) we held hands, talked, laughed & had a great time. As soon as we got home and she met up with "M" the shutters came down again! Same thing happened during a recent 2 week family holiday. We had a brilliant time all together even though she was in touch with "M" via text the whole time she made a point of telling me how much she'd enjoyed it. A few days later however she once again told me that although she'd enjoyed the holiday there was no change regarding her feelings. She says she loves me but is not in love with me anymore, she feels no physical attraction to me whatsoever and doesn't think she wants to be married to me anymore! She agreed at this point to postpone any final decission until after our Son's birthday which passed back on the 9th.

Regarding work, the choice was & always has been hers. She has had part time jobs from time to time and has made friends which she kept in touch with until "M" came along. Now she shows no interest in working, little or no interest in our home & hardly ever sees anyone else other than "M". She's even taken to bringing her along when she takes her Mum & Sister shopping!

Although i'm following the advice from the books I've read (be happy, agree with everything, act like nothings wrong....etc) i'm at my wits end and cannot understand how something so right has gone so wrong!

All my kids ever talk about is "M"'s girls & All my Wife seems to care about is "M". as soon as she wakes up in the morning she turns on her mobile phone and starts texting!

I don't know whats happened to us!

[Kimberley]

Sorry to hear you are having such a rough time this lady and her children have certainly taken over your whole family life. Has it been this way for a long time? I only say this because I used to live in a terrace and became friendly with one of my neighbours and we were always in and out of each others houses and kids playing together, parties, bar b qs etc. but it kind of fazzled out after a while probably about 18 months because we had less and less to talk about because we saw each other all the time so perhaps this might as well - if not have you ever considered and please dont take this the wrong way - that your wife may think of sexual relations with this lady - only you state no intimacy since May and the fact she is a tom boy and uncomfortable with romantic gifts? There is something driving this decision and you need to address what it is - either your relationship, or her relationship with this lady or whether it is a mid life crisis depression any of the above.

Sometimes in each area of your life you need a certain friend for a certain time or sometimes its for a life time. It could pass but you must also start to think about you - you certainly dont sound happy rather fed up with the whole situation. Basically you need to get the communication back on track and try and talk to her. Do you have a friend you could also confide in as well. There is no use trying to repair a marriage without both parties wishing the same course of action, I know I have tried.

At least you have been trying to inject some romance and time away from the children why not give it another go. Also the lady friend in question may want a partner in crime in the single world and is influencing your wife to join her - also helping another with their marriage/relationship problems can make us question our own relationships.

I hope this helps keep posting
Kimberley X

[OutsideCentre]

Kimberly, thanks again.

To answer your first question, they've probably been friends for a couple of years but this situation seems to have gradually developed over the last 18 months or so. As things stand at present I do not pass any comment about the amount of time they spend together as this was usually the issue that fired off arguements between us and invariable ended up with me being labled as "controlling", just the same as "M's" husband "A". I guess i've been kind of hoping, like you suggested, that the more they see each other the quicker they will get bored of each others company. At present however there is no sign of this happening.

Regarding a sexual relationship....although, as you can imagine, I sometimes ask myself the same question, I really do not think there is anything physical between them but obviously cannot be 100% sure. Although my Wife is hurting me terribly at the moment I have to trust her as I always have done and believe that she will keep her promise and never cheat on me. Whether "M" is physically attrached to "L" or vice-versa is anyones guess! Maybe in my wife's mind the only way for her to keep her promise to me is to end our marriage before they move their relationship in that direction! Who knows?

Sexually our relationship has always been a bit "Hot and Cold" with her occasionally showing no interest for spells of 4-5 weeks and at other times showing lots of interest. We last made love back at the end of April and since then she will only cuddle me or hold my hand if I specifically ask her to. Its like she emotionally shut me out completely overnight! Unless I make an effort she will sit at one end of the counch & I at the other where a before she would lay on me or cuddle up next to me all the time. It's soul destroying

I am concerned that she is depressed and have often wondered is she is at the start of an early menopause. I guess either of these conditions could explain her behaviour even though she maintains that although she is tired, she is fine and does not need to see a doctor. For me, either of these would be easier to accept & help/deal with than accepting that she simply doesnt want me any more.

Communication is not an issue, we talk to each other all the time. So much so that its easy to forget that we have any problems. We may go through several weeks talking & laughing together and then, as she seems to start to relax and let herself start to enjoy our alone time (once the kids have gone to bed) as she did last Friday evening she'll wake up the following morning, bring her emotions under check, put down the shutters, and remind me that her feelings towards me have not improved and that she cannot see the point of continuing as we are when she is certain that it will make no difference.

I just dont understand what's going on...I'm convinced that if she just went with the flow, relaxed & stopped trying to force herself to love me we could get through this dreadful time and eventually both be happy together again. She insists that like me she wants this to work but her actions seem to tell a different story!

Regards, OutsideCentre.

[Kimberley]

Hi there

I think reading through your latest post and the previous initial post it may be just a phase with your wife. I think it is a bit early given her age for pre menopausal signs. Depression is a whole other issue - perhaps it may be a mid life crisis I had a bit of one a couple of years ago when I went to a Friends Reunited Reunion that kind of thing can question your current life style and relationships. I think perhaps ride with the storm and show your support and things may reach a break through point but as to whether it is a good or bad point remains to be seen but being the rock to hold on to in a relationship cannot of course be a bad thing. Obviously you love your wife very much and hopefully this will show through to her.

Perhaps her friend needing her as a shoulder to cry on has made her look at her own relationship in more detail or perhaps she wants a single friend to go out with - as I do not know the woman it is difficult to judge.

If you need to post do so - I know when I was in the depths of problems with my husband it really helped.

Regards Kimberley X

[OutsideCentre]

I hope your right about it being a phase!....that's why i've been trying so hard to get her to agree to give it time and not rush into a decission that it might be difficult to back out of.

After her "about face" during Friday evening and Saturday (during which she seemed like an emotionless shell) she sent me a text on Sunday morning after i'd taken my son to rugby training telling me that she needed time to think and, once i'd got home would be going to "M's" for the rest of the day & staying overnight. Obvioulsy despite my obvious concerns I could do nothing other than tell her to do whatever she needed to do.

She was home when I got in from work on Monday and, as usual we spent the evening talking & behaving like nothing in the world was wrong (probably down to advice that I have read stating that I should basically act like i'm happy,nothings happening & that I have a pefect life). While I was at work on Tuesday she sent me a text basically saying that while we'd both had time & space to think & have just carried on as normal she thinks we do need to "talk" about the situation. I'm sure that this is not going to be pleasent but obviously told her that I was happy to discuss the situation with her whenever she was ready (putting the ball back in her court!). As yet our "Talk" has not happened (she had plenty of opportunities to broach the subject yesterday evening but did not) and although things have once again been carrying on as normal(!?) i'm sure the situation will come to a head very shortly.

As you can imagine, although I know we need to talk about our problem, i'm dreading going home in the evenings! Im certain she is going to tell me that she has made up her mind that we should seperate.:(

Life really sucks at the minute!

[Kimberley]

Hi Outside Centre

It isnt very nice been in libo land waiting on her wim to decide yes or no and I feel for you but I guess as you say you love her that much then you can do no more than to wait. I would say though dont let this waiting for the talk to go on for ever as it will not do you or her any good and could fester and never come out. There is never a good time when you have children to have a chat because there are usually disburbances I know I have two and its usually when Im on the phone. Why dont you offer to talke her out for a meal just the two of you without other ears and turn the mobiles off and talk it through? Just a thought. Hope it gets better for you over the weekend.

Kimberley

[OutsideCentre]

Well, the "Talk" that I was dreading happened during the early hours of Saturday morning. Once again my Wife told me that her feelings for me had not returned and while she loved me it was not in the way a Wife should love her Husband. I decided to go with advice I had read both here within the forum & in various books I'd read and played it cool avising that I would much rather we'd been able to sort things out but that she was 100% right that things were not going to work out that way and that If she wanted us to part I would happily help her find work & somewhere new to live. We finally went to bed with her planning to dissappear off for day, on her own, to think things through and make her decission as to how she wanted to progress. Needless to say, I was expecting the worst & was anticpating that she'd come home adamant that we should seperate. Saturday morning came and after she'd had a long lay in (we hadn't gone to bed until 04:20!) and a further "Think" she instead suggested that rather than making a final hasty decission that we instead set up a 1 month trial seperation during which, whilst sharing time with the children, we keep contact between each other to a minimum, on the basis that life apart should focus our minds and bring any dormant feelings to the surface. As this seemed a better option to that which I was expecting, I agreed to her suggestion with the previso that she genuinely used the time to think of us & our situation and did not simply spend the extra "alone time" with "M". She agreed to this without comment, something else that surprised me. Although the situation is far from perfect I now at least feel that she is making some effort to save our marriage rather than simply throwing in the towel! Having agreed on a plan we both agreed to "forget" our issues for the remainder of the weekend and subsequently had a wonderful, relaxed afternoon & evening together. I'm now in the progress of working out how to manage this "seperation" such that we can ensure that we minimise the impact on the children (who we know we will have to tell over the next few days :( ) and still make sure that we can both still attend the leisure activities that we individually enjoy.

Although she's told me that she cannot guarentee that her feelings will return I am at least a little more optimistic although my gut reaction is to keep expecting the worst (on the basis that anything other than that is a bonus).

Think I'll start a new post asking for advice on trial seperations, how to make them effective & whether they work.

Thanks Kimberly for your support and advice, i'd be interested to know what you or the other forum members think about this latest development.

Regards,
Rob.

[Kimberley]

Hi Rob

Sorry your weekend didnt not bring about a change in your wife's feelings but at least the talk has now happened. There is a section by Kate regarding managed separation from what I recall and I wish you luck with it. You keep stating what you wife wishes but perhaps you should take the time to also consider your own feelings as it takes two to make it work. Some people do turn it around I wasnt so lucky but at least you appear to want it very much. It is very difficult to work things out with children in the background to consider because even if you are careful they do sometimes sense a problem. Good luck and if you need to post then do so.

Kimberley

[markus]

How can someone so warm, caring & loving for 18 years change into a cold emotionless shell so quickly?

I am really concerned about her as I cannot get my head round why this is happening

I think you will find that your in denial of the real issues here

Two women spend all this time together , discussing their problems
few glasses of wine and a few cuddles later they start fullfilling each others emotional needs ..... then hey presto they realise they can satisfy
sexual needs better than the men
They become obsessed with each other and start making plans to be together
M leaves first and then your wife finds ways to justify her reasons for leaving and your left behind trying to work out the obvious

Wake up man .. she's having an affair with a women
she's leaving you for a women

Enough said !

[Lawrence]

I think you've done all you can for the greater good. Sounds like she's gone off her #@**^%g rocker one way or other. Time for you to take steps to protect yourself. Keep an event diary, remain totally calm & polite, no dramatics & anything she wants to do e.g separation, move in with "M" etc then that's fine with you. At the moment she's enjoying you bearing her cross. You need to look after yourself and the kids. If everybody (especially you as Dad) keeps their heads then they'll be fine.
Separation sounds like a good idea - make sure she gets the message you think its a good idea as well. And if you do separate make sure that you enjoy it and be seen to enjoy it (dont overdo it of course). That will give her a reality check. If it doesn't then separation is probably best. My gut feel is that M & L are into each other in big way. Much of L's behaviour is very indicative of how wives behave when they are having or want to have an affair.

[1rhamps]

Hello mate i am new on here but i have read this forum for a while. I too was surprised by my wifes sudden outburst of i love u but am not in love with u.I thought we would be together for ever but looking back maybe i was complacent and took her for granted. Her problem was she didnt communicate her worries. We have 2 kids aged 10 and 7 and even though we have discussed doing all u can to save a marriage b4 this happened it didnt make a difference. she is set on a course and even though she now realises how much i love her it doesnt make a difference, she has met someone else who to no surprise tells her what she wants to hear.
We still get on and she knows how i feel however the crux of this is that even though u want to be back with her u must move on. She will never want you back if u are pining. This may sound shallow but i assure you its not ( the worst thoughts have gone through my head) but get on the internet maybe match.com i have and my confidence and depression have lifted i would still love to be back with my wife and kids but start thinking for yourself and look to the future there are lots of people in the same situation as yourself. By the way if u do be honest i have been seperated for 6 months and been told there is no chance so tell the other people on the site u are not ready for a relationship but are looking for friendship. it will help and your own confidence will then get the wife intrigued. Mine has. good luck