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Bambar
27th March 2008, 12:30 AM
hidden-one

There are few situations within a relationship where the “fault” lies completely with one party. We are rarely able to consider ourselves utterly blameless for what happens to us. Everyone thinks, from time to time, “I should have seen that coming” or “If I’d only said that...”, even when we feel we are the “victims” in the situation. As Alice Alice shows, we are often complicit in a co-dependent cycle we find hard to break & your side of the problem is just as real & hard to cope with as is ours.

You seem to be genuinely regretful about your husband’s lost appeal to you & also seem to lack confidence in yourself. You clearly feel that the children would suffer more if you left than if you stay in this hollow relationship & I understand that financial constraints are also an issue.

I forget whether or not you have ever written about admitting your true feelings to your husband & don’t know if you have thought of doing this, perhaps within the bounds of some counselling or other supported situation. Unless he knows how you feel, he is as tied to you as you are to him. While you feel it “would not be fair” to separate while the children are so young, is it fair to expect your husband to live with you just as a friend if he is under the hopeful delusion that things might improve? He has a right to make an informed decision, however painful the process might be.

If you had the courage to face the problem as a whole, perhaps with the support of a counsellor you might find some useful insights into the real nature of the underlying issues. You are not the only person who has become disillusioned with a partner & fantasised that they are in bed with a different lover, & many mothers of young children lose confidence with their own bodies.

You seem like a decent person who wants to do the right thing. Your situation is every bit as difficult to deal with as ours & having read the many posts on this site, you are under no illusions about how painful it is to be involved in any aspect of this desperately complex problem. There is, unfortunately, no straight pathway to achieving your aim & no clear definition of what the “right thing” to do might be. All you can do is to be true to yourself & act in as honest & honourable way as you can towards all involved.

JulesLong

My husband withdrew his sexual favours from me while I was pregnant with our second child, who has recently had his 19th birthday. My way of coping was pretty poor, when I look back at it. Like most women, I shouldered all the responsibility myself as I thought my pregnant state repelled him. Once we had two small children, I rationalised that the pressures of being a father were too stressful for him. I tried to make myself more attractive, to lavish time & attention on him, to seduce him, but nothing worked. I was too nervous of hurting his male pride to ask him directly what was the problem, & after 10 years of enforced celibacy (can you believe it!?) & repeated rejections, I broke down & demanded an explanation. He claimed impotence & said he could not be treated for fear of blackmail (an original approach, however fantastic the notion) so he gained the sympathy vote there too.

I wavered between rage & pain for years, always incredibly cowardly & ludicrously optimistic, hiding in a fantasy world where some kind man would eventually rescue me from coming last in the pecking order behind my husband’s work & the need to put on a show of normality. I still long to be made to feel cared for, loved, important & special to someone, but have come to terms with the fact that the best I will ever have is the respect of colleagues & clients & the kindness of friends. I took trouble to hide my misery from everyone, especially our sons, & to encourage them to see their father without the prejudice of my pain & destroyed self esteem.

As you will see from my recent posts, my emotions are often controlled to the point where I can act as the cheerful celibate companion, tolerating my lot in life & counting my blessings. Then something will happen which tips me over the edge into resentful rage & it is all I can do to stop myself feeling murderous, suicidal, or at least, tempted to shout all his secrets from the rooftops. Needless to say, I deal with this in a frightfully British, stoical, stiff upper lipped way, smiling brightly in public & smouldering in private. Being able to offload my feelings on this site has been incredibly supportive.

With hindsight, I feel I coped really badly with the situation, allowing it to undermine my confidence & steal my youth & enthusiasm for life. Through my cowardly passivity I enabled my husband to live as comfortably as he could & lost the ability to see myself as anything more worthy than an unpaid servant. I feel hopeless & helpless & there is nothing positive to look forward to in life. I feel guilt at becoming the kind of person my husband needed to support him & guilt at having become so emotionally stultified that I was restrained with my children & kept them at arm’s length.

Given the knowledge & experience I now have, I think it would have been better to deal with the problem much more aggressively & at a much earlier stage, before all this corrosive damage was done. It is now too late to redeem anything good from it & the knowledge that I have done the conventionally acceptable thing of staying in an unhappy marriage does nothing for my self-respect. Involving a therapist or counsellor at an early stage might have at least brought things into the open & enabled me to deal more honestly with the situation. It would have been difficult & painful, but more productive than the status quo.

Alice Alice
27th March 2008, 12:56 AM
Dear Bambar

you are an amazing woman
i hope you can take time for your self once in a while
a trip to the Azores that's where i was born before i came to Canada when i was 5
its cheap there sooo close to the UK
people call it the Atlantic Hawaii some islands have very little tourism and the people are so simple i love going there its my paradise

take care
much love
gab

unhappy123
28th March 2008, 09:51 AM
Hi Juleslong and everyone,

I was thinking the same as you about waiting and then going. Sucks though. So I've been starting to run in the mornings again. I should lose the weight, get back into shape. Organize and focus on the business. Keep waking up to wet dreams, I don't with who. haha. It is hard to feel romantic with the kids and daily stresses.

I do love him.

I agree, I'm glad that I found this forum too. It's comforting to know that I am not alone either. I know life is too short to live like this. I was thinking about my parents and how they rarely had sex. They slept in separate bedrooms for years. My mom said it was because my dad snored. I now sleep next to my husband and find it annoying that he snores in my ear. Oh my gosh. I've become my mom. Scary. They've been married for a long time though. Happy. I don't know. They seem like it. Is happiness a choice? I would like to think so. Or maybe ignorance is bliss? Sorry just thinking out loud.

Maybe its co dependency or just the normal comfort of having someone who has become a habit. Its a scary world and a sea of losers and weirdos. I dated for 10 years after my first husband. Dating world sucks too. It's not like choosing a world between sexless marriage and lots of sex. You have to know the person you are sleeping with, get tested etc. Too many STDs to ignore this. My relationship before my husband was great sex, but the man was commitment phobic and wasn't there emotionally. I'm not perfect either, but men are not perfect creatures. And there are a lot of weirdos. I had a daughter the whole time I was a single for those 10 years. I had to be careful. I never wanted the scenario of meeting someone and bringing a string of men home to her. And I never wanted anyone to molest her. So I had to watch the men carefully and take time to get to know them. But I was always watching.

So which side is the best? Of course great sex, but with who? At what expense? Have your cake and eat it too?

unhappy123
28th March 2008, 10:05 AM
Bambar,

That was an amazing response you had written. I see your pain and I also feel your pain. All those years, and I'm only getting started on the same path. I think I'm going to make my husband talk now, so I don't end up waiting. If I get nor satisfied response, I will plan my exit faster then. Women need to speak up more.

Hidden one,

No one can judge you. Its sad you feel that way. Maybe its the daily stresses of life that makes you feel like that? I know at times, my libido isn't the same as it use to be. I still have needs and desires, but after a day of working, running, cleaning, cooking, and taking care of kids, sex is the last thing on my mind. Maybe its the missing desire of not having all our daily responsibilities. I don't know. Don't get me wrong, I do want sex at times and still more than my husband does. Because he never does. Maybe a sexy italian pool boy would solve it. ( just joking, but really have thought of it)

1aokgal
29th March 2008, 06:53 AM
Go to pharmacy and buy snore strips for husbands/men who keep you awake. It opens up the nasal passage and they sleep quiet/fine. My husband wears them for me to sleep.

At first, I reached over to feel pulse in his neck. I thought he may have died in his sleep. Then the QUIET kept me awake a night or two and I got up to sew until 4AM. I don't sleep well anyway. Hard to share a bed with someone you can't remember intimacy. We are good companions, can bike, work out at the gym, do things together but for sure not lovers..(though I do love him even all these years.)

Desire? Very little on my end as there is all that damage and anger.
When you are rejected and made to feel bad you hardly get over it. I said to him the other day when I saw his working paws..I would give you a manicure like I used to if you ever put out. Ah direct. He gave a little snort/laugh and said ..you are the funny one. Yes, aren't I? There are no mutual moments of grooming, back rubs, hair brushing or shoulder touching that "normal" people do just the workings of two who co-operate on things for the common good. I spent a full day on the taxes as I have the last 10 years. He thanks me for doing this. We have no rancor but it is as two
locked in the cage who must treat each other well.

I think to go back to my Flamenco lessons which I stopped a couple years ago. I loved the drama and passion of it..and danced with a group.
He suggested it numerous times lately as he said I loved it so much. I bought handmade shoes from Spain before and still have fabulous bought and custom made for me dresses. Maybe I "retired" the lessons as I thought it was an expenditure or a whim. I plan to go back though my group has changed faces. We danced in the local festivals and I am also a few pounds lighter.

Funny, but I think he was proud of me in this as he always came to see when we performed for some event. He told others about this. Spanish dance is not just for the young and is beautiful to perform and to watch. My instructor will like that as she called me several times to invite me to return or to some fest the group danced. In a way that is sex in action! At least life is not boring for me with painting and dancing , etc. I think I am alive even with the circumstances.

Lynn
30th March 2008, 05:30 AM
This is my first post and I can't believe I read the entire thread!


I honestly wished I had found this site earlier, maybe I would have done things differently. My husband and dated for 10 years then married. I am 49 and was married for 21 years. Sex was great until 17 years ago. It stopped overnight. One day he just couldn't. No big deal I said and left him alone, sure that it was just temporary. (shortly after the birth of our 2nd son)

It wasn't. However, everything else stopped too. No touching, no affection, nada. As the years went by, I became a basket case over it. And then he started getting nasty and controlling, very insiduous and slow. Something I have read on this thread over and over again was the lack of communication, lack of affection or intimacy (without sex). My husband closed totally down. Completely. Just clenched his teeth and stared at me when I tried to talk about it.

Cut to the chase - I left him in November of 2007. Our sons are all grown up and live on their own. He has not contacted me since. Lawyer's letters going out this week. Many times since I have left, I have thought that maybe he just didn't like me. If I had read this site earlier I would have at least given him an ultimatum to see a doctor or I leave. Maybe that would have shocked him enough - or not, as he apparently is carrying on life as usual according to my kids.

Funnily enough - when I told the lawyer that I hadn't had sex in 17 years - he nodded at me and said, it's an epidemic. I was too upset to follow that up with a question at the time, but I am going to the next appointment.

I just am glad I found this site today. I have cried buckets sitting here in my apartment all by myself with donated furniture, pretty much everything I have now, someone gave me. It is so wonderful to know that I am not alone in this........well, it's not a great thing that other people are going through it. I left because I was actually thinking of suicide over this. I knew that I couldn't go through another Christmas holiday living this huge lie and being utterly miserable and aching for some affection. At least by myself, there isn't anyone to expect affection from.


Thanks again for just letting me vent.

1aokgal
30th March 2008, 07:37 AM
Lynn....

I hope you cried buckets the day you posted. Best therapy in the world to get out the toxins all kept inside. Girl, you did the right thing sitting there with your apartment.

Listen, fat women, thin women, ugly women all fall in love and marry again one day. As a culture, we are serial marriers who try to get it right one way or another. You lost nothing with the man except the father of the kids and you still co-parent so long as kids exist. Keep it at that. Just have nothing whatever to do with this dud and swallow some sad times before better times come.

You are going to get through this just fine. Cultivate friends who can understand your situation or go search for new ones to get out and do things. Remember you will have a pile of fatigue as that depression/sadness weighs you down for awhile. That is called grieving and it is natural to be sad and scared at your choice. You did make the right choice.

God be with you and don't get weak kneed with fright over the world. Don't be a pushover for the slick talkers for being celibate so long. Get your sea legs under and learn the ropes and make good female contacts before meeting men. There a a lot of these blood suckers in wait for newbies on the block...that's you. Glad you found the site. We really do understand your situation and all have been on one end or the other of having unhappy relationships devoid of sex.

Work on your personal appearance, weight, wardrobe and self esteem. Make yourself a priority. You are not haldf of a losing team now.
Good luck and we all know you will find a better life in time.

Bambar
30th March 2008, 03:58 PM
Lynn

Welcome to the site. You must have spent hours reading all the posts & I’m glad you’ve found them informative.

Don’t waste time now in reproaching yourself for not acting sooner. Even if you had read the posts here at an earlier stage in your relationship, there is no guarantee that any ultimatum you might have made would have been successful. You will have seen just how often that tactic has worked for those of us who have been posting here for some time. One thing we all agree about is that our partners will not change unless they want to, so that the only way we can make progress is to make changes in ourselves.

You have started the process so many of us wish we had done ourselves & need to spend time taking good care of yourself, as 1AOKgal so wisely advises. The apartment full of furniture you were given is not a symbol of failure & isolation, but one of freedom & determination to take control of your own life.

The fact that this part of site has more contributions than any other may back up your lawyer’s view that enforced celibacy is an epidemic. Whether or not it is an epidemic capable of being controlled is doubtful. There are dozens of different explanations for this problem, but one thing is certain; unless both parties are willing to work together, however difficult the challenge, there is very little chance of any positive outcome.

Do not spend too much time regretting the past, but concentrate on building yourself a happier & more fulfilling future. Take care of yourself.

lonelylady
30th March 2008, 04:48 PM
Dear Lynn,

Congratulations! I have made this decision myself and I know how hard it is to give up on a marriage even though you know you must.

My H is still here until May 1………..difficult being in the same house and I work and try and be away as much as possible. Once the decision was made I just want him out.

I’m looking forward to a new life with no anger or anticipation of something that will never be. I wish you the same thing. This site helped me see the futility of wishful thinking. We are all in the same boat. We have all suffered humiliation, self doubt, even feeling that is was somehow our fault. Women are like that. Know that you are important and deserve to be loved. These men can’t, won’t, whatever their reason is, give us the intimate part of life that every human being needs. That is their problem, not ours. We did not cause the problem. It surely never changes as spoken on here so eloquently

Lynn
30th March 2008, 05:03 PM
Thanks, both of you! I feel a little like a tiny bit of weight is off my shoulders this morning. I did have a chuckle over the idea of being with a man again. I think that might take more years than I have available to me in this lifetime to wrap my head around. I am one messed up person. But I have a good job and am reconnecting with some old friends, ones I can talk to about this.

And I have been taking care of me. Eating healthy, walking a lot and have many hobbies that really keep me from getting too depressed. I even went out and bought all new makeup and some new clothes yesterday afternoon.

I told the lawyer I would have stayed in the marriage if I had gotten even some crumbs. Touches, kisses, handholding. Anything. The financially controlling behaviour was I think a way of him trying to control me so I wouldn't leave over it. Or wouldn't be able to leave.

Someone here said something about her husband being very nice and wonderful to everybody in public and she wanted to scream that he doesn't have sex with her. I could really relate. I am considered the terrible run away wife because no one knows. Lots of people aren't speaking to me anymore. My family is very supportive though.

The most interesting thing in this whole mess is how these men/women all act the same pretty much when you try and discuss it. The silence, the stonewalling. In my husband's case, his family is what you could call shallow - in the sense that no one says anything that isn't nice. Private things are pushed under a rock and never discussed. It's all small talk, like you would have with a stranger. When someone does something they don't like, they just shun you and pretend you don't exist. lol Because there are so many commonalities amongst these guys/gals that don't want or need sex anymore, I was surpirsed that it took me months to even find this site with this topic. I can only imagine the true figures as to how many people live this way. And it is very sad.

My husband and I were head over heals in love, he cried at the alter, we made love like rabbits until one day. Our lives changed forever. I guess mostly I don't understand why one would not seek out medical help or counselling when such an important aspect of one's life just stops. It is such a waste.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up, it's a waste. Except for my sons.

And it is ironic....my husband wouldn't talk to anyone about this, even me, but it is going to come out when he gets a lawyer. That's just so crazy and surreal.

I do ramble on don't I? lol I need to put a cork in it.

Thanks again!

Lynn
30th March 2008, 05:21 PM
Lonelylady: It feels so strange to hear congratulations about this. Because I feel like such a failure. I am glad that you are doing what you feel good about and you are very brave - I could not have stayed in the same house. I have gone completely no contact with him. I don't speak ill of him to the kids and he is doing the same thing. It's our marriage and not theirs.

Leaving - you go through many stages I have found. At first, the freedom was a little intoxicating. Interspersed with panic attacks at "what have I done?". Then I was fairly happy. Now I am very tired and anxious. 1aokgal gal said it right - sadness and depression weighing you down. Just be ready for it, if and when it comes. Your emotions will be very labile too. I go through the gamet in one day sometimes. Mostly I just compartmentalize it and have a huge crying fest every so often.

I wish the best for you in these weeks till May. You are very brave.

lonelylady
30th March 2008, 10:25 PM
Lynn,

Your remark about the silence and not saying anything bad about someone is exactly what my husband does. We have talked to each other as strangers would, the weather, news….etc.. It has almost always been this way, he has no depth. Also, we did the Doctor thing, meds……..did it all, with no luck. I don’t believe there is one thing physically wrong with this man. We made love all the time prior to marriage, and two weeks later it went to nearly never to never. I think it was his way to “get” me and then once he did, there was no reason to do something he didn’t wish to in the first place. He is from Canada and managed to get his Green Card etc., I was good for that.

I will be fine until May, I have to be. It isn’t at all what I want, but of course I try to be accommodating and do what is easier for him. He has to find someplace, lots of things one has to do when they move. He is a procrastinator as well, so I know he can’t just move unless I were to call the police which I can’t do because of this being a small community and I don’t like airing my dirty laundry. He doesn’t wish to move back to Canada which he should do, I’m hoping he realizes that is his best choice and just goes.

You are still a young woman and have plenty of time for a good life. You are going through the “grieving” stages, perfectly normal and expected. I don’t expect to experience much of that as I’ve done most of it already. In the past when I’ve been ready to end this “marriage” I have always let him suck me in by believing that he will change. He will never change and I know that from my gut.

We communicate through emails!!! How childish is that? He can’t talk to me because unless I have something positive to say he doesn’t want to hear it. So, this is my life for four more weeks. I rationalize this by saying to myself that basically we’ve lived like this for 5 years, what is four more weeks?

Right now he is out, probably at a bar having a “pity party”. My home is my own for the hours he’s gone and it is peaceful. When he is here there aren’t any arguments, but the silence is deadening and disturbing. I have enjoyed some of my day cleaning out closets and imagining where I will put my things once I have more closet space! I made a list of things he has started and never finished that I will have a handyman do for me. All these little irritants will be taken care of in a few weeks and I’m holding on to that.

1aokgal
1st April 2008, 07:24 AM
Dear Lonelylady.......

I hope you feel not so lonely to realize we here think about you and understand some of the the emotions you must feel. The end of a marriage and all it's expectations is very sad. Sadder still to be locked in as you were with a man who seemed to have his own agenda from the beginning.

You must feel very worried that all will work out...but it will..in time.
Don't get into any little "hissyfits" with him now about things that no longer matter as socks thrown somewhere. Just toss them and no conflict over small details. You may spar for a fight to throw all that emotion and anger you kept inside. Too late, too late. Don't get in a spin and wrap yourself in more stress. If there are words unsaid.....go see a movie. Let's not delay his leaving and don't you get angry as nothing will change but your degree of stress. Good thing to clean closets or things that remind you of wasted time.

Get out for some healing walks. Take some great bubble baths and do personal grooming on your dead time and think about you and not about him. You are doing the right thing and there is life AFTER the door closes.
Bless you and close up all the loop holes so there is little contact later.

Bambar
1st April 2008, 11:55 PM
I was thinking about the harm we do to ourselves by letting the judgements of others affect our actions. Sometimes it is just our perception of how people would react which stops us from disclosing this problem to others, despite the fact that this is not a secret about which we need to be ashamed. Often it is a real problem for those like lonelylady who live in a small community & wish to retain some privacy, or like Lynn, seen by those who know no better as nothing more than a runaway wife.

It is so tempting to shout the truth from the rooftops, especially when we seem to others to have a perfect partnership. We often collude with our partners to maintain that illusion, too ashamed to admit the truth even to ourselves, or hoping that the outer show of “normality” will eventually seep into our private lives. By “washing our dirty linen in public” we risk being labelled as “a woman scorned” by those who are too ignorant &/or shallow to try to understand. For those of us with this problem, our self-esteem can be terribly damaged & it is essential for us to retain some dignity.

Most of us find it is safest to tell only those who will understand & at least remain neutral, or even offer us some support. It is unrealistic to share this complex problem with those who see themselves as our friends only when we are half of a couple. They will almost inevitably feel they are being asked to “take sides” & back away. Our partners’ friends & relatives will see us as embittered & vengeful & may choose to turn a blind eye & a deaf ear to the truth. I also suspect that raising a topic like this might make others aware of the uncomfortable truths & deficiencies in their own relationships which they choose to ignore.

When we have decided on some method of coping with the situation, whether by making a major move out of the relationship or by reconciling ourselves to some way of accepting the status quo, it is particularly frustrating to be unable to justify our decisions in public. Perhaps that is why a site like this is so valuable to us all. Here we can let off steam without fear of alienating those we need most & know we will get an empathetic response. There’s no need to feel we are rambling on too long or boring our listeners. We all know just how necessary it is to vent our feelings for as long as we need to & in a safe environment.

Keep taking care of yourselves.

Bear~
2nd April 2008, 12:43 AM
>Keep taking care of yourselves.<

THANKYOU BAMBAR***

Just when I think I couldn't be hurt any more...after my Dad passed away last month my 2 Sisters and I found that all he left us was the grave he would have shared with my Mother~ He left the house and all he owned to his Mistress hat he married 8 months after my Mom died...they were married for 20 years...together for almost 30...

I feel like a fool (again) for honoring him and respecting their relationship~

My hubby has been in a good mood lately...playful* Dumb Me thought "ahhh maybe a chance"...then I see on-line he's checking out Hotels near his work....Spring Fever?!

Just one of those days I wish someone would shoot Me and put Me outta my misery***

Thankful for the Women here that understand the pain~

Bless Y`all***

Bear~
2nd April 2008, 12:48 AM
THIS SAYS IT ALL:
>
> Time passes.
> Life happens.
> Distance separates.
> Children grow up
> Jobs come and go.
> Love waxes and wanes..
> Men don't do what they're supposed to do.
> Hearts break.
> Parents die.
> Colleagues forget favors.
> Careers end.
> BUT... Girl Friends are there, no matter how much time and how many miles are
> between you. A girl friend is never farther away than needing her can
> reach.
>
> When you have to walk that lonesome valley and you have to walk it by
> yourself, the women in your life will be on the valley's rim, cheering you
> on, praying for you, pulling for you, intervening on your behalf, and
> waiting with open arms at the valley's end.
>
> Sometimes, they will even break the rules and walk beside you.. or come in
> and carry you out.
>
> Girlfriends, daughters, granddaughters, daughters-in-law, sisters,
> sisters-in-law, mothers, grandmothers, aunties, nieces, cousins, and
> extended family, all bless our life! The world wouldn't be the same without
> women, and neither would I. When we began this adventure called womanhood,
> we had no idea of the incredible joys or sorrows that lay ahead. Nor did we
> know how much we would need each other

Alice Alice
2nd April 2008, 08:46 PM
Dear Lynn

I also think you are at a great place in your live this sounds strange to say, but we all know its good.
You have chosen to leave the lie you were living and everything seems ruffled right now.
I also have this lie going on in my life but i voice it to my husband when i think he will listen.

I asked him yesterday why is he putting me through through this, his reply was "i'm not doing this to you"....so i guess he is doing it to himself then?

i just got connected to the web today after the move and i must say i have missed out alot, i'm happy to see all the support you got from the ladies on this thread 1okgal, Bambar, Lonelylady, Bear and anyone who reads your post can feel your pain and wants to support you because we all need support too.

i have met a lot of good people on this sight

i am getting settled in the new neighbourhood and soon will be all updated with the everyday things, my problem with my husband never seems to be updated though?
I believe to be a co-dependant and will find help for this, and i have no problem ending a marriage that seems to make me feel like there is something wrong and nothing is ever aired out. first i need the tools to redirect my caring nature in a healthier manner.

Take care

Lynn
3rd April 2008, 05:56 AM
Ha, I am back. Work is going crazy and my mom broke her leg twice. Long story but she has a cast now (she's 70) so that presents a few problems on it's own.


Everyone has posted so much stuff that I can't even begin to reply to everything. But do know that it has helped me tremendously. I hit a low spot but I have bounced back, kind of.. It was my first real low spot since I left. I will no doubt have many more but each one, I come back stronger I think, if only a little bit.

Alice: "I'm not doing this to you"....Hello? Maybe some recognition of what it is doing to you might be in order. speaks to the root of this.........no recognition that what they are NOT doing affects others. And because of the nature of the problem - no one else recognizes it. My H was never affectionate with me in public, but would act like everything was fine, even laugh at sex jokes. Huh? I used to just get sick. And really laugh, with his eyes. I never could understand it. However, on retrospect, he would look at me with his eyes right after, as if wondering if I would say something.

I would like to say that my situation is a little different from some here who are choosing to stay with their spouse. My husband has other issues. He seems to not have any concern that his problem has any contribution to how our marriage has turned out. He actually became more and more distant yet controlling and bossy. There were relatively few happy times since his inability to have sex. He almost beat up our oldest son one night. It's funny (not really funny, just an expression) that he has expressed that his best memory is of the week we spent at the lake, in separate beds (where he announced that the front bedroom was to be his and that I would have my own separate bedroom at the back) and where the farce of this marriage really hit home. It was extremely cold and just having a warm body to snuggle with would have made my year. Not to be.

I also can definately see why people stay if things can go on sort of smoothly. I have always said that the one thing that I could count on with my husband was that he wouldn't screw with our kids. If I died or we got divorced. I can't say that anymore. Since I left an education trust fund set up by his father has been changed to the point that my "baby" son has come to me in tears. I am confident that had I stayed, everything would have carried on the same. I told my son that I will pay for his university education, we will apply for a student loan and to not worry, mom will take care of it, but it hurts real bad. Over one person's inability to deal with a sexual issue. The damage to the kids (and mine are adults) breaks my heart.


I have so many regrets. Is my happiness and peace of mind more important than my son's feelings of security? It's an enormous problem that really needs to be addressed not behind closed doors and in whispers......Arrrgh. I don't want any other person to feel like me, live like me, regret like me or just plain suffer.

Alice Alice
3rd April 2008, 07:50 AM
Dear Lynn
as for regrets
my life went from a very simple strait forward kind into a whirlwind of drama and pain

i was to enter university after 3 years of collage that i worked to put myself through and still managed to save extra for my first year of uni

my brother had betrayed my father thus my parents lost our family home (my dad had been betrayed by his own parents) so long story short

My Dad in a drunken state accused me of being a whore/prostitute saying someone saw me as a hooker (i was a virgin at this point)

i decided to have sex but then changed my mind after i was half undressed but was rapped as i was being rapped i suddenly remembered being molested by my grandmothers brother (my great uncle)
Then i got pregnant that night had an abortion 2 weeks later (something that was against my beliefs)

i lent out my university money 5 thousand $ to my brother his wife kept it and refused to pay me back just as she did with my parents (my brother has no balls)

i had a rebound relationship with my first boyfriend (not the guy who rapped me) anyway he had a problem with alcohol
my 2nd boyfriend i married he was a compulsive liar had affairs on me
So i ran away from it all met my currant husband who has a porn addiction and hid it for a half a year and then lied about not doing it anymore but then the truth comes out in the wash.

this is all the bad high lights of my life i did have good times
i try to stay positive

I don't have any regrets if i could do it all over again ...you better believe i would change it ...but i can't i just have to think positive.

Lynn don't feel regret use that feeling to get yourself to where you want to be

your story about your son is so heart breaking at least he has his mom to help..your xhubby sounds very self centered
Some people who think solely of them selves are going through so much pain all they can do is take take and not care about anyone but themselves.

These type of hurting people should be spray painted bright orange so us who are trying our best to be good people can be warned.

(i still can't believe your son has to see his dad do this to him)
is there nothing sacred with these kind of people...mu hubby included

Take care Lynn

Bear~
3rd April 2008, 04:10 PM
Alice&Lynn; (((HUG))) to both of you*

It's sad to see how our History of men goes on to repeat...

The thing I'm Thankful for is the 4 Son's I have will put an end to this...they are Loving,Honest,Caring Humans.

I've been Blessed and Healed watching how Loving my 2nd Son is to his Wife and Son!

Can't change the past but thru Love we can change the Future* Stay Strong Women*

Bambar
3rd April 2008, 11:55 PM
So much pain & cruelty. It is hard to believe that there are good people out there when we hear such awful stories from Alice Alice & Lynn. It is particularly vicious & sadly common for men like Lynn’s ex & Bear’s father to take out the resentment they feel for their partners by punishing their children. How any parent can damage their own child in such a vengeful way is beyond my understanding. I like the idea of spraying the perpetrators bright orange. It sounds as if most of the men Alice Alice ever knew would glow like a pumpkin if that punishment was meted out.

Perhaps a common thread in this is the way some people are able to “compartmentalise” things, seeing no connection between what they do & how that affects those around them. Those who see their lack of sexual contact as an issue for themselves alone, utterly disconnected from intimacy, are often, as Lynn describes, the ones who become distant & controlling. Maybe they just want to gain control over whatever they can, believing erroneously that this form of dominance is admirable, or even necessary for their mental survival.

At the risk of appearing sexist, this desire to “compartmentalise” seems to be a strong feature of the male psyche. No woman I know thinks that what she does has no effect on anyone else. Maybe we use our imaginations more, or simply have more ability to remember the consequences of previous actions. I’ve tried to explain it to my husband by likening it to hundreds of dominoes, set up to create an elaborate pattern. When one falls, so do all the others, in various directions, but most of them predictable. He can’t see it & it’s obviously much more complex than that. Maybe it’s just a poor image.

Lynn epitomises the anxiety most of us suffer when we try to weigh up the need to protect our children against the need to preserve ourselves. We strive to give our children the best start we can, but inevitably they must reach a point where they see their parents for the fallible human beings we all are. Most of us here have tolerated with gritted teeth our partners’ public shows of affection, shared laughter in public at jokes & frivolous comments about sex, the general hypocrisy of our situation, but we have done our best to hide the true situation from our children. It is an inappropriate matter for them to be exposed to & we rightly guard our privacy.

There comes a time, however, when we cannot protect them from the pettiness & vengeful acts of those who punish their partners via the children. We cannot & possibly should not, disguise the fact that both parents do not invest equal amounts of care & concern in their children’s wellbeing. While I would never advocate trying to turn a child against such a selfish parent, I feel we must not let our desire to protect them turn into deceit. Part of the process of growing up depends on developing the ability to make good judgements. If we continually feed our children false information, how can they ever trust us? There is also the fact that many children, even from an early age, can be intuitively aware that all is not well between their parents, but remain secure enough in the love they themselves receive to remain unthreatened by the situation.

It is not your responsibility, Lynn, to make excuses to your son about your ex’s disgraceful conduct towards him. He is an adult & old enough to understand that you & his father have completely different characters & motivation. He may have had some illusions shattered about his father, but he will recognise you as a good & caring mother who is coping brilliantly in such difficult circumstances. A false feeling of security nurtured by a father selfish enough to act the way he has towards his child is no great gift to your son. A strong, resourceful, independent role model like you really is. You have come too far to waste your valuable time on regrets. Look to a better future instead.

Alice Alice
4th April 2008, 01:11 AM
I can't believe i wrote all that...
i have to add my father was a victim of betrayal by his parents and acted out like a victim through out his parenting years..drinking and being very violent.
No one ever knew the lie our family lived in he was a hard working man bought the family home made a vacation home (for his lovely family) so everyone thought he was such a great family man, church goer you name it did charity work...he looked and smelled like a rose.
Thanks to my moms covering his tracks when ever he got a little too drunk and of coarse we kids helped out too.

Well i asked my Dad in June 2007 (a visit to see him and my mother) anyway i asked him if he remembered that night he called me a whore...his face dropped he could not for the life of him remember...because he was drunk!!!
i felt really mad so ripped off but he did give me a heart felt apology and that was it .
i have forgiven my dad he doesnt know what he has done and because he didn't want to face his emotional injuries from his child hood he tortured his family.

My mom never stood up for her children even though she knew she we needed her to..she did give us a lot of love and affection
I love them both very much and expect nothing from them these days i call once a week to say hello a short and sweet phone call and off i go into my life.

Thats funny Bambar the pumpkin men of my life ...i have to laugh
I agree completely with you about the domino effect i have thought this too
its unbelievable how one person and their negative words can have an effect in such a great scale.

Thanks for the hugs bear (bear hugs) i like that

love you all and thank you for such good support i can't ever see myself thanking you ladies enough

1aokgal
4th April 2008, 02:50 PM
We all can have emotional scars from childhood that carry forward into our adult life. I can identify with Alice on the father. My stepfather was a drunk who damaged my life and he even spit in my face twice in life, once when I was 17 and pretty innocent. He made some scathing comments that assumed I was sexually out there. (I wasn't.)

Years later he ruined a family holiday with drinking and because he did not like the look on my face he spit again right in my face and said some nasty things.As an educated person who worked hard all my life, I was so angry I slapped his face as he shoved his face into mine. My mother and husband were there to see it. To this day I cannot stand that particular holiday of the year and won't go to festivities around the day.

I did not go to his burial, nor visit with him at the end. I called my mother. My mother was physically and emotionally abusive all my life and I suffered terrible beatings at her hands. I visit her today in a facility not too often. She has dementia and likely was bipolar those years. No body normal could do the things she did to me. I cannot be a victim all my life so don't bring this forward to my children.

My daughter really put it together from observing some interactions in past years. Now all this did not get me launched as healthy as one could be with stable loving family. I have some strict behavior codes for myself. I don't smoke, drink or tolerate a lot of garbage from others. I tend to be into my art and activities I enjoy. Really prefer to be rather isolated though I can be outgoing and work well with people. I just don't have a lot of expectations. Hence, I see some of the relationship issues come back to my own makeup. If these issues were different I would have demanded my husband get himself in a counselling/treatment mode instead of accepting the loss of intimacy.

I have no contact with a stepsister who felt I should have come to this funeral years back. My childhood was totally different than hers. My mother turned her house/belongings, money and jewelry over to this younger stepsister. She put my mother right into an institution where she is today and got all her belongings. I am sure my mother did not see that coming. They bar my taking my mother outside the place to take her to restaurant for lunch or out for a drive. I can only visit her there so I don't make the drive some 4 hour drive away very often.

Life would be grim if I thought about these events often, which I do not. Instead I have a boat and spend summer on the water and paint and do things I enjoy. I keep a curtain over the past and the people in that past. I speak about it now because these roots often lead us to expect less of others. That is what we get, right?
I am sure that this is true for most of us here who had drama in the past perhaps we are drawn to relationships which repeat some patterns from the childhood. I know my husband does very much, in his way, love me yet his actions are a rejection no matter how you cut it. My life has been hard work and education acheived but I cannot say my life is a success because of the failure in the marriage. I see it has failure or perhaps even my failure. I chew on that at times.

I wonder what draws us to our selected partners? Of course, we cannot know/see all this as the beginning is usually a real love story. If I had it to do over I think I would still have chosen him. He is a good decent man but screwed up and broken. I cannot fix him and he does not recognize the defect. This is not a man who drinks, womanizes or deprives me of anything he can give me. He is utterly generous to me in every way but one. This is a really hardworking and intelligent man. He does all the other things so thinks he is a good husband.
I do still deeply love him after all these years.

Alice Alice
5th April 2008, 07:38 AM
Dear 1okgal
its so mind baffling isn't it?
how someone who has been put through so much pain can have the strength to break the chain of abuse ,,,but why couldn't our parents do it?

i did some research on traumatized people (you can google it) compulsive disorders
i'm a bit compulsive but this is where addicts get stuck they have no control over there compulsive traits it seems they snow ball into it.

well you already know i'm latin and since you like boating i'm inviting you to come visit me in the azores (i'm planning to move back to my roots in a few years)

Hope you have a good weekend xx

1aokgal
6th April 2008, 07:13 AM
AliceAlice...

I think the key to adults with poor family and childhood is we do not have a good idea of marriage. I sure did not witness a happy marriage.

There are no addictions in my history or my husband as alcohol or porn or such. I never drank, smoked and always worked very hard and got through college as I started at 35 years old. No opportunity for education before that. I was a 17 year old mother. I had to work my way through all that tuition and school took much longer going part time. I worked my way through several professions and worked up the ladder with study and state board exams and licensing exams. I am not a dependent person and was successful in my field. Now I have a biz on the internet and that does very well. That means I work form home and on my time.

I own the house with no mortgage, autos and boat. He makes a lot of money today though when I married him 28 years ago, he did not. What he earns he puts into my account and I make the financial decisions. He is a super hard worker and so bright he is scary! He is pretty much a whiz in so many areas from music through engineering,etc. He is also the nicest person. We are good partners. The man would be a great prize but in the area of intimacy he shut down completely years ago. Who would believe that!

I do think he is a workaholic though as he was always driven to perform on a high plain and earn top dollars and he does. On the job he is very respected and well liked. The problem is he put it all in that arena. This situation has broken my heart. He has no secret lady on the side or porn networks on his computer. He treats me with utter care and respect and always tries to do things for me in other areas. He always asks me what I would like to do or where would I like to go when we go somewhere.

I almost think a day or two of reading this thread might be a wakeup call to him that he better get his act changed. Sometimes I feel the issue is just dead and then other times I want to pressure him to go to counselling. We will see.

Sure is not a place in life you and I ever thought we might be, is it?

Alice Alice
6th April 2008, 07:28 AM
that last sentence ...soo true
i never thought this was going to happen its mind boggling

some people are very afraid of art be it visual arts or musical?? i think its insecurities of being told its not good.,,,i'm referring to your Husband and mine...mine was very creative but something happened (before i met him) he shut down his outlet of music and cycling tricks he would compete around Europe.

i have learned not to ask for peoples input on my art i find half the time they don't even know what they are saying.

anyway back to how we get these men doing a little more for us ...even an intimate conversation is lacking i just want to connect in a deep level.

your a strong woman and so am i maybe we should tie ourselves up on a train track and get them to save us...hmmm maybe not that dangerously set up

Alice Alice
6th April 2008, 08:42 PM
But just to pose a question, what about me?
I want sex but just not really with my husband. I have fantasies that don't involve him.



I wanted to answer but it has taken me this long to actually calm down and understand how bitter you must be. Therefore, I am sorry for you.



your first quote got me feeling upset...this might be what my husband feels like

your second quote is very true ....we ladies who get zero love making from our husbands are very bitter when it comes to this topic...can you blame us?

i still didn't get any feedback from you when i last posted regarding your post...why can't you put your negative feelings aside when your husband wants to make love to you?



don't stop posting no one hates you

Bambar
6th April 2008, 11:53 PM
hidden-one

We all open ourselves up for criticism as well as support if we post on a site like this. We accept that there are reasons why we find ourselves in this situation & that the problem is rarely completely one-sided. Even if we only accept things without questioning, we are all in some way complicit.

It is a shame that you have only been able to react to the critical posts & seem to have discounted those who offered you the constructive advice you say you sought here. From what you say, you may feel you have exhausted all possibilities, or that you are too busy to consider the support of others here as being of any use to you.

We have nothing to offer but our own experience & insights from the “other side” of the problem, so are probably not the right people to ask for advice. You have your reasons for acting towards your husband in the way you do & we have ours for reacting to that kind of behaviour. It's sad that you see that merely as self pity on our part.

Perhaps you will find a more acceptable response from others who share your own experiences. Maybe you will find a suitable Christian site which will be more supportive for you.

Good luck & take care.

Lynn
7th April 2008, 07:44 AM
I am back again. I had a wonderful weekend visiting overnight with a long lost friend (girlfriend) that I went to school with. We are planning another one in 2 weeks. It's like finding an old sister, one that I can tell anything to....and did all mom and dad's laundry today - mom has a cast on for a month at least.



Bambar and Alice and Bear and AO.....You really hit home with your comments. thank you very much. Both my sons have been very communicative in the last week with me and my youngest has started counselling and seems to be more settled.


Hidden one - Lack of sex kills a marriage. In many ways. After 93 pages, the gut-wrenching comments (from both men and women) testify to it. I came from a very Christian background and believed that the frequent mention of sex in the bible was because it is very important in cementing a relationship. It isn't the most important thing of course. But it is crucial I believe.

I love my parents, my sister, her kids, my kids. If they call and say they need me, I think of nothing but how to meet their needs. Making them happy makes me happy. I thought that being married meant that that same love would be shared between my husband and myself. The fact that that wasn't shared has been the biggest disappointment in my life. I would walk over broken glass to help people I love to not feel sad/suicidal. I now feel I would rather walk over broken glass than be rejected again by a person that was also standing at the alter taking those vows.

No one is perfect. I sure am not.

Alice Alice
7th April 2008, 10:13 PM
This is great news Lynn...your boys are being educated of how they feel about Dad and what has happened with you. So good to hear this, i'm sure you feel so blessed to have your children ...see your husband was a good thing in some ways...that's how i feel about my baby.

I'm praying for you and for every ones dark clouds to become a silver a lining

Bambar
7th April 2008, 11:33 PM
Lynn

Glad to hear things are going better for you & your family. Children are often much more resilient than we expect, I think. People in our situation often spend so much time looking after for others, (possibly hoping we will earn the same level of care from our partners?), that we forget our children are growing & becoming more independent.

It’s also good to hear that you are renewing old friendships, often neglected by people like us, & generally taking care of yourself. Your generous nature is shown in the way you support your friends & family, but it is equally important that you see yourself as being valuable in your own right, not just because of the service you offer others.

For a long time you have devoted yourself to others, including your partner, who exploited your good nature & clearly was not willing to reciprocate. I suspect many of us posting here have had similar disappointments, believing that we would be shown as much care by our partners as we showed them. Perhaps we have over-idealistic views, thinking that “as we sow, so shall we reap”. Sadly, we often find out that this is not the case.

This is a time when you need to make sure your own needs are catered for as well as those of others. Your generosity will be rewarded by the reactions of those who appreciate your worth, but you are also vulnerable to the exploitation of those ruthless people who will try to take advantage of it.

Keep up the good work & remember to put yourself first just now.

Lynn
8th April 2008, 03:43 AM
My oldest son and I went to to run errands today, car insurance and change of addressess and he asked when him and his roommate could come over for supper. I said, this weekend would be good because every 2nd weekend for the next 2 months I have plans. Then I told him that my girlfriend and I have have plans for sightseeing and dinner every second weekend. He asked who she was and he said he never heard of her. I explained and at the end, without thinking I said....well she didn't come over because she didn't think your dad liked her. My son said without a hesitation "dad doesn't like anybody". and it wasn't even said with any type of tone, just a matter of fact. He wasn't upset, just casually said it and the conversation moved on.


The best part of this whole thing is (and it's weird, I know). I call my friend when I get on the bus and she meets me outside her apartment and everytime she gives me a huge hug. That's all I ever needed for decades, just a big hug and smile and the thought that someone else enjoys my company for a few hours.


I do want again to say how helpful this venting and relaying my silly little life's moments has been. You guys are great and you will never know really how much a boost this has given me. Also how all of you have been so positive and reinforcing to me. You are very brave and have missed your calling in counselling. I really mean that! I should send you all a cheque!

Getting a divorce is just so freaking awful. It's expensive and soul-numbing. It is easier dealing with the kids now though. I'm a lot calmer too.

________________
I suspect many of us posting here have had similar disappointments, believing that we would be shown as much care by our partners as we showed them. Perhaps we have over-idealistic views, thinking that ďas we sow, so shall we reapĒ. Sadly, we often find out that this is not the case.


that's the kicker isn't it? Why do they seem to treat others better than their own spouses? I would have been thrilled to be treated like he treated the neighbours or co-workers.
I don't believe it is over-idealistic at all.

_________________

Alice - thank you for your kind words. My kids mean the world to me. But, it is surprising to me that with moving out and dealing with everything, I have had to set limits with them. I was never allowed to make the rules or decide things. He was the decider and I was so crazy trying to be the peacemaker and putting out fires that I lost myself. My kids were shocked that I had opinions and limits and now...plans that didn't include waiting on everybody every second. It was very difficult for me and I have spent many nights not sleeping wondering if I really was this horrible person. But in just a matter of a few months, it is paying off big time. The happier and more at peace I find myself (vs lonely) the happier they are because they don't have to worry about me.

Do any of you find that? That your trying to deal with a taboo subject made you appear like the one that had the problem? I think that is what my kids are dealing with now. They don't know the problem or the real reason why I left, and it's very difficult to deal with, I can't talk about it with them, yet I am becoming a completely different person to them now and it bewilders them. But they also seem to like it. It's very schizoid I tell ya.

Alice Alice
8th April 2008, 05:41 AM
Lynn
your story is getting better and better as you write it, how more beautiful can your life get?
I believe you are on a wave of goodness and things will keep unfolding in your favour. What ever you are doing be aware of it and stick to it.

Your relationship with your children is where i want to be with my baby when he turns into a young man, a mom a respected friend that connection you now have was years in the making.

Yes i feel like an odd person around my Husband...and i shouldn't
i want to be in my skin with the people i love.

Your story and words have been a inspiration and i have learned not to be scared about what separation can do to my baby

Nothing better then having a friend come visit and have my husband not complain about it.

my great grandfather was one of those people who would treat everyone with smiles and do anything for them he was described as a man who would take his shirt off his back for someone in need....maybe to make up for the treatment of his family (grandmothers dad) my granny would tell me he was evil and would beat her mom (my great grandmother)so bad she wouldn't leave the home for days...my dad wouldn't hit my mom but gave us kids sever beating.

i'm so happy you are freeeeee
stay happy beautiful lady!

1aokgal
8th April 2008, 09:11 AM
I am leaving to go spend five days in a luxery hotel in Philadelphia at the Portrait Society of America yearly convention. That will be classes with some of the world's best painters and a chance to see entries in the competition paintings. This will be the third year in a row I will go there.

My husband wanted me to fly up with high gas costs but flying is more costly and I like the chance to see parts of the country on the trip. I leave a day early to spend a little more time in the city and perhaps do some shopping there. This is the vacation I never take. So I should return with a glow having a lot of fun though I admit I will miss my cats and a dog.

Hope ypu are all doing OK Lynn, Alice Alice, Lonelylady and Bambar. I appreciate the many times you gave me a little sympathy and tea for the soul right here.

Alice Alice
8th April 2008, 09:07 PM
ooooo how i wish i was going!!
have fun!!

Bambar
8th April 2008, 10:28 PM
Lynn

You really seem to be growing as a person these days. It will do your children good to see that you can be a strong, assertive woman who loves them enough to give them boundaries instead of just following your husband’s lead in everything, or trying to compensate for his behaviour. They don’t need to know the detailed reasons why you separated & in any case, it sounds as if they have a good idea of how socially dysfunctional your husband is. They are aware of his self-centredness & will find it admirable, if rather strange at first, to see you emerging as a woman doing things for herself instead of pandering to his very whim.

I recognise what you mean about becoming the one with the problem. For years I felt exactly like that, mainly because my husband seemed to be perfectly satisfied to carry on as if nothing was wrong & made me feel like a weak, cringing beggar whenever I tried to approach him sexually. With hindsight, I can see he had me doing just what he wanted – being a caring companion, an undemanding partner who would look after his practical needs (he loves good food & wine), acting like a mother rather than a lover. I made his life easier by doing all the planning & organising, the childcare etc. & generally insulating him from anything he wasn’t interested in.

He claims that by devoting all his time to work, he was caring for his family, but I believe he was choosing to do what he found most rewarding & avoiding all the difficult realities of life. The trouble was that all of us were sucked into doing things the way he wanted, so our lives were dominated entirely by his schedule. There was never any room for spontaneity, fun or a social life & I spent so much time waiting for him (to come home, to be ready to eat, to get up at weekends) that there was never any time to do anything except my paid job & housework. I neglected my friends & found myself over-emphasising the importance of work to my sons, something I greatly regret now, as I never had time to play with them & enjoy their childhoods.

My boys seem to have found a better balance than their parents have, with a strong work ethic & a real commitment to their friends & social lives, but the lack of emotional input from us has done them no favours. Because I felt emotionally repressed by my husband, it seemed as if I was excluded from all physical expressions of affection too. I was so used to being rejected that it felt as if I didn’t deserve to have physical contact with anyone. I didn’t dare to approach even my sons, for fear of being spurned again. It has been a real effort to resist that & to show affection to the boys. Luckily they are able to be warm with their friends, even if they think their mother is a cold fish.

It sounds as if you have the basis of a much healthier relationship with your children. They clearly have some insight into some of the reasons why you left your husband & are learning to respect your individuality as well as to love you as the mother they know is devoted to them. This is a difficult time for all of you, but you seem to be becoming stronger day by day.

Keep it up!

1AOKgal

Have a great time & come back refreshed & invigorated.

JulesLong
8th April 2008, 11:58 PM
Hello Everyone

I have not posted much so far - but I have been reading everyone else's postings over the last few weeks. It is so helpful to read how others are dealing with similar problems.

Its a bit daunting to realise that seemingly the best way to deal with the problems is to do what Lynn has done.

One thing that I cannot work out from recent postings (please forgive me if this has been discussed months ago) is how you feel about your husbands now? Presumably we all got married when we were young and in love but have those feelings remained? I struggle to remember the overwhelming feelings I had when we first got together,and what it was about him that I loved so much. He is still a good man but I just don't have those feelings for him anymore. The continued rejection has just made me lose interest in him over time so that now even if he decided he wanted to resume sexual relations I just don't think I could go along with it. I know its not going to happen anyway - but it makes me realise there is no hope for me.

There is so much I read in all your postings that rings true - it is of great comfort thats for sure - though its also upsetting - as 1aokgal said this isn't a place we thought we would ever be in.
Love to you all

mikefish
9th April 2008, 12:05 AM
i am at a loss married for a year and live together 6 mo for the first year and 3 months this woman was the most sexual creature i had ever known then in the span of a week she turned it off completely i mean nothing, i am a very physical creature adn i am out of my mind.
my first thought was an affair bbut i had her followed etc. nope she just doesnt want any physical contact at all, i am a very attractive man in my 40s and am all the time asked to go out per say.
i dont i believe in marriage,but i cant live celibate i guess i am asking why has this happened to me, us i know she wasnt faking or fooling this woamn had a good time with me now???????

she wont goto counseling of any kind or a doctor and i mean we have had some fights over it,
am i wrong to desire my wife physically?
i have even kissed her deeply in walmart and she liked it now only a very small peck adn her head turns away, should i just throw her into the street (we live in my house i provide all support for her adn her child) or is it my duty to take care of her and suffer the rest of my life because i believe very strongly in my marriage vows?

please give me some ideas

Alice Alice
9th April 2008, 02:20 AM
Dear Mikefish
you sound like a great catch

i will tell you my brothers story and you see if any of it rings true for you

My Mom and Dad suggested to my brother they would be a cosigner for his new home. He had the house for 5 years was renting it out as he lived with my parents in the family home.

My brother met his wife at a friends wedding his friend was marrying the sister of his future wife

ok i need names Tanya is my sister in law David and Shae is the bride and groom

Tanya and Shae's parents were going through a divorce during the plans of the wedding so much was going on the anger and hate was at the highest point.
within days After the wedding Tanya moved in with Shae and David.
David kicked her out within months she coach surfed for a couple of months.

Before i knew it she was hanging out with my brother at this time he was renovating one of the apartments in his house she was there to help him paint...before we knew it she was pregnant.
My brother was against sex before marriage 2 of his ex girlfriends told me this they were shocked he was to be a father ..these 2 girls didn't seduce him but Tanya sure did and he was lonely and hurt from the 2 heartbreaks he had, i guess.

So Tanya needed a home she found one my brother ,,,,she took over the finance and she would lie about paying the mortgage she was out to rip off my parents she took out her hate for her parents on mine.

As years went by we found out she was by-polar ....and a psycho as far as i'm concerned

stay strong man

Alice Alice
9th April 2008, 11:59 PM
Hi Lynn
i dont think your boys would ever say that ...you did the best you could and they know you were stuck in the middle of the whole thing ...your x couldn't or wouldn't communicate with his sons and expected you to do it along with every other thing...it was the same with my folks
I love them both but i have a special place for my mom.

I agree Bambar is a sweet heart!!

((hugs))

Bambar
10th April 2008, 01:02 AM
Juleslong

It’s hard to say how I how I feel about my husband now. Like most couples at first, we were both, I thought, thrilled with the delight & joy of it all, being full of fun, good companions & great lovers. I was immensely flattered at being found sexually attractive & couldn’t believe my luck. Mind you, I should have realised I was being interviewed as the new cook/housekeeper when he paused before eating the first meal I made him to ask if I was sure I’d cut all the fat off the meat!

When he first withdrew from me sexually I was baffled & became completely convinced it must be all my fault. After years of this, when I demanded an explanation, I felt sympathetic when he said he was impotent & tried to preserve his frail male ego. As time went by & I realised he showed much less care for me than I did for him I wavered between anger, resentment, indifference & resignation. Now that he says he knew from the outset that only a dominant woman could be a suitable sexual partner for him, I have swung straight back to rage.

The most lasting emotion is anger at my own stupidity in settling for so little from him & for trusting him for all these years. If what he says now is true, he may have been satisfying his own needs elsewhere, while he watched me becoming increasingly abject through his rejection & neglect. Even if he settled for a celibate existence, he was under no illusion that it satisfied me, but he just didn’t care.

Mikefish

I can’t really follow your post. You sound like a very confident person, so how did someone over 40 who doesn’t believe in marriage end up in your situation?

Have you tried asking your wife about the problem rather than just threatening to throw her out or having her followed? She might respond better to the suggestion that you both could go for counselling to help improve life for you as a couple. Most people prefer this to the “You need to see a doctor to get this thing sorted out” style of approach.

Lynn

Thanks for the compliments. I really appreciate them & could do with the support just now.

You should be proud of how well you are handling the situation with your children. I’ve contemplated giving mine some kind of explanation for our dysfunctional family, but I still have qualms about saying anything which will cause them to disrespect their father or see me as a vengeful moaner. At 20 & 19 they are adults, but I am unsure what to say, or even if I should consider it at all. They have their own lives to lead & don’t need to be burdened with my problems as well as their own, but it is sorely tempting to give them some understanding of why their parents have been estranged for so long.

Please don’t be daunted by the lawyerish business. Even the most amicable divorces go through rocky stages & surely the lawyer is there to deal with the conflict on your behalf? Also, is it really necessary for you to go over every little detail with a professional whose time you pay for? Surely you would be better advised to use sites like this or close friends to vent your spleen rather than paying someone to hear anything more than the basic essentials? Try just answering the questions which will give enough information to get you what you need. That way you retain your dignity, keep calm & do not pay for excess “listening time”.

Whatever happens, remember we are thinking about you.

mifefish
10th April 2008, 06:12 PM
lynn. / all... i havent threatened her at all i meant should i do it .(throw her out)
i am losing my mind here how can a seemingly healthy woman 44 yrs old very attractive with a wild sex drive all of a sudden QUIT and i mean quit.
nothing no kissing no hugging nothing. i have to initiate any physical contact at all she has went so far as to put a pillow between us in bed so i wont accidentially touch her in the night, she used to sleep naked, i always have even when i was a small child. now she has long jammies and a shirt
we had an amazing sex life for 14 months then 0. i am a very affectionate physical man i always have been my whole family is lke that,
she was too for a time. when we were dating she even drug me into a changing room at walmart and made love to me!!!!
now i cant even talk her into holding me or letting me hold her in our bed???
she says she just burned out? and is perfectly happy "right now" with no sex adn if i truly love her (which i do) i would just understand and take care of myself until mabey she gets her "mojo" back.
i have begged and pleaded with her to go to a doctor or counseling or anything. but she refuses. she seems ok with the fact it may cost her our marriage. her 4th my 2 . i really dont want a divorce i want a wife to love and love me in return. we have no kids together.
i just want some resolution or some help or something i am very desperate.
i do not believe in extramarital affairs but i am getting close. i have gotten several offers but i refuse, i am a christion or try to be.
she just tells me leave me alone and will not talk about the subject anymore.
i am at the end of my rope. i dont want to end up like some of these poor people on here i have read posts 5, 10, 20 yrs no sex???? why ...is there a chance she will come back to me or if i stay with her am i sentenced to a life of lonliness in my own bed if i allow her to stay?

please give me a few new ideas if there are any.
then i can be sure my analytical mind has seen all options.
thank you.

Alice Alice
10th April 2008, 08:41 PM
Dear Mifefish

do you think she might be going through menopause is so this is hopeful she can get medication and back to her self.

have you ever spoken to her ex's she might have a track record of doing this kind of thing

mifefish
10th April 2008, 09:59 PM
that is my thought also but she refuses any and all ideas to remedy this.
she will not go to the doctor even if i go with her. she goes when she is sick so she isnt afraid of doctors or anything like that.
no talking to her exs is not an option they are not available.
the last one is a truck driver adn is somewhere on the open road???
other two were abusers adn she was only married to them a very short time. we have been married longer than all the three others. 1 yr 1 month
i know sounds crazy when you write it adn read it.

mifefish
10th April 2008, 11:13 PM
bamba : how are physical creatures like us deceived by people who have no intention of living a normal healthy life with their mate.
i am scared to death if i divorce this woman and try again i will find the same thing all over again i made it very clear to her how physical adn sexual i was adn she was all about me and our sex life till..............
the day i will call it. she just said sorry i am burned out i dont want sex anymore. for now..... she always leaves the door slightly cracked ir seems.
like theres a chance mabey it could possibly....you get the drift.
i was married for 19 yr to a woman and it was great we divorced because she was influenced by a religeous cult adn etc.
then this woman i rebounded into . i had more women throwing themselves at me than i could keep track of but it was not what i wanted. i am not some dog or a whore so ot speak, i am a family man its the best thing i do.
i need a wife to come home to to take care of me adn to take care of her.
i do not need a houskeeper etc. i do it myself i am also a fabulous cook adn do all the cooking.
i had my share of rendevous when i was single for awhile but it sucked it was like eating a bol of cold gravy. casual sex is so not for me i am an animal in a good way with someone i love. so you tell me how do i find it love or at least someone to share my life with who wants to be with me.

sorry for the rambling i am about over the edge. give me some ideas or advice whatever.

Lynn
11th April 2008, 02:05 AM
I called you Mike, when it's Mife - sorry about that (old tired eyes on a crappy computer).


So, you don't want to end up like poor me? I had to laugh. It's quite sad isn't it? You did get more than me though. You got that she just doesn't want to have sex anymore. I am still waiting for the answer - 16 years later. 17 without sex and 1 year to realize it just wasn't going to happen anymore.

Is it at all possible that after 3 marriages, she married you for another reason other than love/sex? Security. That she possible faked the earlier stuff? If that's a crazy question, then just say. I am just throwing things out there, because I have no clue.

Her behaviour does go along with a lot of the rest of us....the sex ending, so does the hand holding, touching or anything else even remotely intimate. 17 years later I still don't have any answers. I sure don't like to tell anyone to leave a marriage - but if it were me 15 years ago or so and I had my life to do over, I'd walk, no.... run.

I really feel for you but at least you are talking about it now. You didn't wait half a lifetime like I did.

Have you tried going to counselling by yourself? I did. A few times. They all told me to leave. Perhaps they (depending on your situation) could offer something. Every person is different and comes with their own baggage. At least the counselling would help you deal with what is going on now and help you with whatever you decide to do about it.

My opinion - an affair would be the worse thing to do. It will complicate your life and if you do decide to leave - it could really hurt you. I took vows and leaving has made me feel very guilty and I didn't have an affair. Nope, just don't.

I hope things get better for you.

Bambar
11th April 2008, 12:24 PM
Mifefish

I think you need to make sure things don't just drift on & become set in this pattern. Getting some counselling for yourself might help you clarify the situation in your own mind, but nobody can give you a clear solution to the problem.

Presumably you have already asked your wife if there is anything you could do to help win her back & have thought about what might have triggered her decision. Without knowing why your wife no longer wants sex you are stuck & things cannot move on so it would be reasonable to ask her for an explanation. If that is not forthcoming, it might be best to get out of this relationship.

What might be best is for you to avoid being drawn into another heavy relationship & certainly to avoid another marriage in a hurry. An affair while you are still married would only cause complications just now but another hasty marriage could be disastrous.

mifefish
11th April 2008, 04:18 PM
well we had it out last nite i told her i could not live without her physical attention to my needs anymore, and i told her i was going to seek a divorce. she was very upset and said fine if thats how it is then ok.
she says i am not understanding of her feelings? if i was i would just understand and hope she was able to come back some day?
it sounds like it should be easy only together a couple years no kids. hell just kick her to the street, but i am completely in love with her. i know it everytime divorce comes up i feel like my heart will fall out of my chest.
she even went so far as to say i had her permission to seek physical "help"
outside our marriage????
i take my vows very serious and i cant do that no way.
and it did say for better or for worse? so what is the right thing to do
am i bound by my vows to do this and find a way to cope?
or move on and try another????? someday!!!! being 48 though how long can someday be??

thank you all for your support and opinions i truly felt like i was going crazy. she and i should be having the sexual time of our lives right now.
but instead we are living in constant turmoil over the lack of it???
i keep running the scripture over and over in my head "my god my god why hast thou forsaken me"

is it me have i done something so terrible in my past that god has seen fit to sentence me to this life of lonileness? possibly so.

thanks again i will try to post again monday i am going to take a break from even thinking about it if i can for a few days. i might even take her advice and call an old girlfriend and see if some "help" will do me any good.
i am tired of feeling like less than a man.

Aussie Joe
13th April 2008, 02:08 PM
Not easy mate, believe me I know. I have been married 12 years and our first child arrived 10 years ago. Since the first child, a light seemed to go out in my wife (so far as I am concerned) and all her attention is directed towards her children (we have two now), her friends, her parents and herself. I have felt very pissed off for many years. I tried talking to her - big waste of time. She just tells me I don't know the difference between sex and love. Maybe she's right but I do know, however, that it is very hard to love a woman who ****s you like she is performing community service. Our sex-life is perfunctory - she has this "get on with it" attitude - no touching, no affection, miserable as a bastard. So I have basically given up. I just live below her radar. Like a lot of truly selfish people with zero to give, she takes no real notice of anyone else until it affects her. Consequence: I get away with plenty without her ever being aware of it. Sad, though, because I do love her and I love my kids. I am not looking forward to when they leave home, I can tell you. I know I won't leave the cold, heartless cow even then. It would mess my kids up, I know. Stick with the bitch, mate but have your fun. Remember what Henry Fielding wrote in "History of Tom Jones" - that the reason why people stay together in marriage is not for love, but the joy of tormenting each other for a life-time. Laugh it off mate, and get your fun elsewhere, discreetly. Chin up now, mate! No more griping!

Alice Alice
13th April 2008, 06:35 PM
Dear ALL

I need time to read your posts but right now i'm off to church and will be back
i will pray for all on this sight a miracle has happened my Husband has found it in his heart to put aside what ever it is that is holding him back from sharing our intimate time together
We have broken the ice he and i for the first time in 3 years made love ...THANK YOU GOD
There is hope for you all no matter what stage you are in your journey of live ...what ever you are praying for at this moment i will pray to God today to help you find peace and answer your prayers.

LOVE LOVE you all

Alice Alice
14th April 2008, 03:42 AM
Aussie Joe
you sound so hurt i'm sorry you have become so down and out on your wife i understand your anger i was there...but i never went else where for sex i think i would rather leave...but i'm not judging you (just in case you think i am) i feel your pain man

Mifefish i just thought of something as i was reading your last post, what if something horrible happened to your wife and she can't tell you because she is ashamed,,,,i'm talking about RAPE ...is it possible??

anyway here is a link about different ways of love language i am going to read more on this
There is a book out called the different languages of love
http://utahmarriage.org/index.cfm?id=STRENGTH67

i had a good day at church today it is a old fashioned church looks like a school house too...i will find out the history of the building i really like that kind of stuff

mifefish
14th April 2008, 09:52 PM
well this weekend was i hope a change in the universe at my house.
we truly had a good ady hanging out saturday afternoon. just doing nothing etc. talked had a good day.
i told her after dinner i was going to have sex this evening adn i surely hoped it was going to be her. she told me not a chance, so.... i showered
changed clothes put on some cologne i do usually anyway. walked out of the bathroom and she asked me where i was going? i just looke at her and smiled adn left.
i was not going to have sex i was just going to leave awhile to calm myself. when i returned at 1 am she was still awake she had been crying and was upset. i took off my clothes and went to bed she tried to talk to me but i told her i was tired we would talk in the morning. adn went to bed. in the morning we woke up and she started talking and crying and i cried too. then we made love.it was not her idea but she did not stop me either it was not like back when. i think she was doin it just for me. but at least it was a start back mabey. then that afternoon we made love again, then that night again. still kind of one sided but none the less at least she showed me some compassion adn we were intimate with each other besides having sex.
so i hope we have made up some ground and can continue to keep getting back to where we were.
as far as being raped etc. in her past i asked her that many times to please share something like that with me if that was the problem and i would stand beside her throught any and all counseling it took to make her better. but ahe says no it is not that she just burned out?????
so we will see if things dont stay better adn keep progressing i will end up divorcing her as i will not put myself through the agony i have been through the last months its just not worth it. the truth is i do truly love her even through her shortcomings (and there are many) i can work through a lot of trouble if she doesnt allow our intimate bond to die.
thats what marriage is all about in the end boys and girls. i know that now with all my heart.

i hope to post again in a few days with continued success stories.

thank all of you for your support and opinions adn the realization that i was not alone adn i dont know why that helps but it does
goodbye for now.

mike

mifefish
14th April 2008, 09:55 PM
well this weekend was i hope a change in the universe at my house.
we truly had a good ady hanging out saturday afternoon. just doing nothing etc. talked had a good day.
i told her after dinner i was going to have sex this evening adn i surely hoped it was going to be her. she told me not a chance, so.... i showered
changed clothes put on some cologne i do usually anyway. walked out of the bathroom and she asked me where i was going? i just looke at her and smiled adn left.
i was not going to have sex i was just going to leave awhile to calm myself. when i returned at 1 am she was still awake she had been crying and was upset. i took off my clothes and went to bed she tried to talk to me but i told her i was tired we would talk in the morning. adn went to bed. in the morning we woke up and she started talking and crying and i cried too. then we made love.it was not her idea but she did not stop me either it was not like back when. i think she was doin it just for me. but at least it was a start back mabey. then that afternoon we made love again, then that night again. still kind of one sided but none the less at least she showed me some compassion adn we were intimate with each other besides having sex.
so i hope we have made up some ground and can continue to keep getting back to where we were.
as far as being raped etc. in her past i asked her that many times to please share something like that with me if that was the problem and i would stand beside her through any and all counseling it took to make her better. but ahe says no it is not that she just burned out?????
so we will see. if things dont stay better an keep progressing i will end up divorcing her as i will not put myself through the agony i have been through the last months its just not worth it. the truth is i do truly love her even through her shortcomings (and there are many) i can work through a lot of trouble if she doesnt allow our intimate bond to die.
and thats what marriage is all about in the end boys and girls. i know that now with all my heart.

i hope to post again in a few days with continued success stories.

thank all of you for your support and opinions an the realization that i was not alone an i dont know why that helps but it does
goodbye for now.

mike

p.s. she still doesnt know for sure if i went out and got laid?

1aokgal
14th April 2008, 10:17 PM
Dear All.........

I am BACK said the guy in that movie. I have a wonderful time in a most plush hotel at my convention for Portrait Painters of America. The most famous painters in todays world who do portraits did demos and shared ideas. AliceAlice, you would have loved this week as we were emerged in fabulous portraits. There were 20 paintings chosen from 1300 entries in our art competition.

I got room service on morning. Get this a sinfully fabulous waffle with strawberries and whipped cream and orange juice and coffee. It was so expensive and SOOOOO fabulous. I only did that once and it was a treat indeed both from the calorie level and cost. I went a day early and had more time to go around Philadelphia Art museums. I visited the last day of travelling exhibit of Cecilia Beaux paintings. She was the most prolific and greatest woman artist of her generation 1855-1942. The paintings on loan and it was the last day in Philadelphia. These works were exquisite and well worth the trip to see them. They so excelled most of the artists of that time except for a few top men who painted portraits. There is a book on her works and I ordered it as my big interest are large paintings of men or women and often in costume. Now I have a portrait in progress of a relative from a photo of her in 1880. While in Philadelphia I parked in the park house and walked , took cabs and tour bus to destinations as that city is a nightmare to drive.

On Sunday my group of 900 plus artists went to the new Philadelphia art school. There we toured and saw the fine work being done by dedicated young students. They study art history, theory and techniques for years to achieve this craft. Years ago, if a young person talked about being an artist that was a sure path to poverty. Few artists lived well despite fame. Today we have an era that rewards artists with a luxery life. Many portrait painters who paint famous people, and CEO portraits can earn a million dollars a year. One such artist said he has an 18 month waiting list for clients. These fine portraits take repeated personal sittings and often trips to the persons home over a period of time to get a life painting. Then there is the delivery to an individual or corporation with a ceremony.

One portrait like this can be a $100,000 commission. Today young people are not told they best get a real job. Many try to find a way to pay an $8,000 year tuition for the best art schools. When an artist is really prominent the client may travel to his studio for the original sittings. The cost of all transportation is paid by the client as well.
A good portrait painters is usually also a good painter who does landscapes and still lifes in between portrait commissions. Painting is a wonderful therapeutic craft and one can have great passion to learn and become good at it. Yes, for me this is such a niche.

I see many new posters and welocme to those who find this site and realize this problem we talk about has a traumatic damage to the partner who is forced to live celibate through the chose of another. Some don't live celibate but find other willing partners. Whatever coping mechanisms are involved this forum is a good place to find some feedback.

When the "rejecting spouse" seems concerned and will discuss the problem there remains some hope that a relationship may be salvaged. Many will remain btogether and continue to be companions/roomates but harbor deep wounds and anger toward the other one. That can eventually be like living as two elder people who share the house and little else. So there are many modes to live with this situation but the common thread is it is a lonely and isolated life for many.

My husband is a great person who encourages and supports my art interests. I came home to a slick clean area and we talked daily while I was away. He is still a darling good looking guy who could melt me from across a room. The fact is I doubt we could ever breach a 15 year lack of intimacy. I don't see that happening from many viewpoints. We don't discuss the problem because he will blow it off in a second. I think we both have sex...just not together. There are no other persons but I know my interst desire to have a normal relationship has never died though it has atrophied along with my confidence. There are many here who live the same way. We are one big universal club.

So what is the answer? There is none. Each will find a coping mode and some will leave the marriages. The rest of us will paint, work longer hours or spend time with family and friends. Is that all there is? My week away did not bring me home to a changed venue. Glad you understand me and can hear me. I refuse to stop caring about the issue because I am passionate to live completely. I won't discuss this with him now because he would pretend to care and the conversation would then go to something more interesting to him. He would be uncomfortable.
We sure don't want him to be uncomfortable, do we?











l

Alice Alice
14th April 2008, 11:09 PM
Iokgal
you have me laughing on the last line...i sure know how that is

Your art expedition sounds divine!!!oh how i would love to get a full nights sleep and have mouth watering breakfast like that.

Funny enough i was at someones house back in the days when i wasn't a mother and i had my eyes feast on the wall to wall portraits of all different kinds of people each portrait had its own style i was captured by the emotion the artist seemed to know how to render all of it on paper it was mostly charcoal in colour some oil pastels none of it was framed but he had enough portraits to frame the room wall to wall up high touching the ceiling i couldn't believe how enthralled i was,,,i have started my own portrait collection i have to add the final finishing touches of my H...with a tight lipped smile

good to hear you had a good time your very inspiring


Lynn what have you been up too?

Mike i think this is a break through!!!

love gabs

1aokgal
15th April 2008, 09:41 AM
Dear AliceAlice....

Yes, I loved the getaway to the art convention. It sure was great treat to see fine work and meet many artists who make such a lot of money on these paintings.One artist planned her flight from the convention to two other major cities to paint a study and take photos to begin portrait of her client. She will begin painting the client with a life sitting and then return to her studio to complete the work. All he expenses are paid by the client. She gets $30,000 for the size of that portrait. Rough job, right?

My husband works overnight tonight and the weekend. This gives me a lot of time to paint and do my own thing. Just cannot wait for summer and warm weather which always lifts spirits. I plan to find out about my dance lessons again. Think I will plan to get to the spa at least 3X a week prior to swim weather. The walks and more activity makes me feel better overall. The mirror tells me I am holding and look much younger so the birthday next week won't rock my world. No matter what I always stay positive and upbeat.
Bye for now.

mifefish
15th April 2008, 04:27 PM
we shall see we shall see.

the menopause thing reared it head last night apparrently she has missed her monthly 2 in a row now, she is 45 this month so that is a lot of what is going on here i hope.
is it true she can go to a doctor and with medication lessen the effects etc. and possibly regain at least some of her sex drive?

Alice Alice
15th April 2008, 06:37 PM
Mike
find a woman who she can talk to about this
you said she was very sexual ...maybe she feels she is losing her womanhood

1okgal
you are so lucky to have your art up and going i still have to dig out my easel love to hear your taking care of yourself :) our bodies are after all the temple of God xoxo

1aokgal
20th April 2008, 10:26 AM
Dear All........

Though I did not post this week I followed along. I hope you are all doing well. I enjoyed to get time away and loved my artist convention. It was exciting on the trip to visit the fabulous art school in Philadelphia, Incommunicati. It is amazing to see the young people who now have the opportunity to learn art as they did in Europe years ago. It made me think of the fact that most of us were so busy making a living we never had a chance to realize our various talents. Art was for me a later find.

A marriage can also be lived without gusto and passion. Sometimes I read the posts that seem so intellectual, but lack warm and passion to love fully. We seem so focused on daily reality we don't have time for being playful, have fantasy and magic in the relationship. Maybe we are all just being too darn adult. Whatever happened to the magic of just having fun together? I think the fun comes from getting out on the bikes, going for walks and hanging out together. Maybe life saps some energy from the fun as we are so preoccupied to make a living and meet everyones expectations.

I am glad the summer will soon be here and we can get out from behind the walls again. Have some fun this week!

1aokgal
1st May 2008, 06:49 PM
We had only a few days notice and my husband leaves tomorrow morning for several months. i don't know why I get so upset about this scenario??

It leaves me with the things to arrange as lawn care and that puts a work load as to any household with one. I care for animals and cook, shop for one. When he is home he often coks and cares for the details to take care of the house. I take cars to the shop and such but if something major occurs he is there. we do not argue or have problems as all the words have been said for 15 years. I did have a GYN doctor appointment to make and that makes me uncomfortable. I am a married woman with NO sex and in that spot that is obvious. I am embarrassed by the need to talk about this with this doctor.

What is to say? He has no physical problem......he is not gay.....he just refuses to have sex with his wife for 15 years. What is new? Now he is leaving for several months as his job requires him to do. He has been home and working a regular hours for some time while his ship had major overhaul. Now it is ready to go and sail as they do wherever he is needed. That means I live alone and won't share a king size bed with a man who snores. I usually get up and sew untill late late much of the time. Now I will still do that but the cat will be on his side.

The personal issues lay unresolved for months. Well, I live in a sexless marriage for 15 years..... as like... what WOULD get resolved?? My birthday was a few days ago. He bought me a box of candy and a dozen red roses. We went out for lunch wih our grown daughter and grandchild as time is short now he leaves. He works ever minute but tonight we will eat out when he gets home. He leaves at 5AM tomorrow morning. When he leaves I am always angry inside.

I will spend perhaps $600-$700 on a special Victorian outfit I showed him that is for sale from a lady in California who makes them. He said,"go for it." He works a lot of overtime when he is gone and there is nowhere he is having a good time on these trips. He is on a ship in the middle of a conflict zone and an unsafe place. So what is my problem??

If it were years ago we would have made love several days before he leaves to go overseas. There would be that bonding and a feeling of belonging. I never stopped wishing the time would turn back.

On my birthday he tells me he, "loves me with all of his soul and etc, etc."
Why is he such a freak? I am angry. That is sooooo unhealthy for me.

Bear~
1st May 2008, 07:11 PM
1AokGal

I just stopped to catch up and read your post! My Heart just breaks for you* (((HUG)))

If I lived near you I'd drag you out for a Girls night of Laughing and forgeting ALL of this mess*

How do these men say they Love us with their Hearts&Souls??? It Kills Me*

My hubby is trying...but I wait for the "shoe to drop"~ I'm reading A New Earth,Tolle...it helps so much*

Wishing you Something new and Exciting in your Life this summer...time to go for it Girl!!!

Bless You***

Bear~
1st May 2008, 07:15 PM
*~* Happy Birthday *~*

Ok Gal; Wishing you a Special Gift***

Bambar
1st May 2008, 11:45 PM
1AOKgal

Happy Birthday from one of your fellow veterans! I’d like to join you & Bear in a great Girls’ Night Out. Couldn’t we just paint the town red??H

How these anniversaries & significant moments become landmarks in our sad histories. We think nostalgically of all the times when we used to bond through lovemaking; on holidays, lazy afternoons, before being parted for work etc. But the memory only brings us envy of our younger selves & pain at our present circumstances.

I have bitter/sweet feelings when I see people who are able to demonstrate their love with genuine affection & I can’t stand the kind of hypocrisy which goes with the florid declarations of devotion you & I get from men who can’t bear to touch us. My anger is tempered with sadness, but it is no less destructive than yours. I really think we need to channel that into something more constructive, or it will just eat away at us.

Things here have taken some interesting turns lately. After my husband made his declaration that he had always known that only a dominant “Strict French Mistress” type of woman would be suitable sexual partner for him, I was in a state of limbo for a while. I rationalised that I was no worse off than I had been for the last 20 years & kept things going much as normal, then a close friend pointed out that things like this could drift on for another 20 years & I could find myself providing intimate personal care for a geriatric for whom I felt only contempt. That really made me think again.

I’d spent a very confused time, doing all the dutiful domestic tasks that I always had done, taking time off work to take him to hospital appointments, serving at table meals to suit his diabetic requirements etc. but feeling so dreadful about the whole thing that I could hardly bear to be in the same room as him, so I scuttled out to leave him to eat alone. I felt even more cheated than I already had, with old-fashioned terms like “wasting the best years of my life” running through my mind.

Anyway, after a couple of weeks of this I bit the bullet & forced him to discuss the future. His reaction was to say, “What do you want to do? Ditch me?” & I think he was quite surprised when I said yes. We have yet to work out the practicalities, & it all seems quite civilised so far, with him being financially generous & offering to move out (guilt?), though there is a lot to negotiate.

One of the most difficult things is that he seems to be acting as if nothing is wrong with our relationship. He has paid me more attention than he has in many years, suggested outings, offered to buy meals etc. When I explained that I was not comfortable with this, he seemed surprised that I did not want to spend any unnecessary time with him, much less go on outings or on holiday ! I tried to explain I would have enjoyed all these things when I thought he actually cared for me, but he acted as if I was being quite unreasonable.

We don’t have big dramatic shouting matches, just terse, very British scenes of repressed emotion, with him saying he doesn’t want to talk about it as we’ll never understand each other’s points of view. Well, I tried for years to understand his, but why do I still end up feeling as if I’m in the wrong? Even my elder son said he is concerned about how my husband will cope on his own, despite having seen the split coming years ago! Am I being really selfish in hoping that someone will eventually worry about me?

Maybe Bear has some bright ideas to share?

Bear~
2nd May 2008, 12:23 AM
>> concerned about how my husband will cope on his own, Am I being really selfish in hoping that someone will eventually worry about me?<<
Maybe Bear has some bright ideas to share?

*~*Bless you sweet Bambar*~*

I read your post and smiled thru tears*** These are the very Words stuck in my mind and Heart for years....it took my youngest Sister to get thru to Me....her question simply was...why do you care,or should you care how he will cope?

It's not your Job to take care of him...he can figure that out on his own~

Are you being Selfish to Hope someone will eventually worry about you? YES*

Thank GOD for that!!! It is the very Self- LESS -ness... that gets us where we are in the first place! BE SELFISH!!! LOVE yourSelf* HOPE for REAL LOVE!!! You got it*

Now;do I have bright ideas...LMAO*** No~

I merely had enough...plopped down one night on the couch and said "I need to tell you something...I don't want you to feel bad...I don't want you to fix it...I just need to express to you who I am and what I need"~

I talked for about 15 mins...the main thing I wanted to get across was that we were roommates...not Lovers...and it wasn't his fault it just happens But,I wanted more...because I was a good Wife,a good Mother,and a good Nurse~

All of those things are giving positions...I give till I'm empty....where do I go to fill Me up? Who holds Me,Loves Me,and shares my Dreams? If you are my roommate,and not my SoulMate...I get that* It happens~

You need to get that too* You can't say you're my Husband and act like a roommate* I want my Life to be Real*

He got it* Things have been different...not perfect...still shaky. We seem closer,laugh more but,after a few weeks he started working more at Home and slipping...then he caught himself...so we'll see~

It also helped that my middle sister is throwing her hubby out for the same reason...no more chances...done* Wakes a man right up*

Stay Strong*

Bambar
2nd May 2008, 08:45 AM
Thanks so much, Bear. Just now I waver between feeling I have the right to make changes & the old feelings of being responsible for everyone else's happiness, including my husband's. It takes support like yours to keep me on track.

I'm glad things are more comfortable for you just now & hope it keeps going on like that. You really seem to have got through to your husband. You are a much more forgiving & generous person than I am. I talked to my husband, as much as he would permit, but I cannot help feeling that for once, I am the innocent party in all this. I accept that I could have handled the situation better (& probably still could), but I cannot forgive him for knowing from the outset that our sexual relationship was more than likely doomed. His lame excuse that "I thought it would be OK" just doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Like you, I enjoy the "giving " aspects of my life & work. There are many intrinsic rewards in that, & we can't change our personalities, but there is also the secret longing to be shown as much care as we show others. Sadly, people like us, AOKgal & many others on this site are seen as "copers" so other people, even our close families, often assume we don't need that kind of support. How wrong they are!!

Maybe I will become more tolerant in time, but just now it seems so hypocritical to act as if there has not been a major change in our relationship. I suppose the fact is that for him, there hasn't been. He still says he is "very fond" of me & likes my company, but that is not enough for me any more. I wanted to be more important in his life than that & feel cheated that the role I was forced to play could have been undertaken by someone hired from an agency.

Maybe I'm confused because he has known the true situation for years whereas I am still adjusting to it. I just can't keep on "compromising" in the way I have done for so long. There have been positive aspects to our relationship; a shared sense of humour, some interests, the children, & I don't dislike the bloke, but I just can't cope with the added attention he's showing me now. I long to scream "Too little. Too late" at him all the time & think of the years I spent waiting for him to act the way he does now. Ironically, I feel less lonely now than I ever have. Perhaps it's to do with having made a decision at last.

Anyway, I see a counsellor next week & am making real efforts to improve my social life etc. so I hope things will look up from here. Thanks again for the support. It's invaluable.

By the way, what is LMAO?

1aokgal
2nd May 2008, 08:47 AM
Dear Bambar and Bear........

Thanks so much for your kind feedback. My poor little heart needed your sympathy. Even those of us who can tough it out much of the time have some moments that are the loneliest that could ever be.

My husband will leave Saturday morning very early. One of his crew will pick him up. That is good because I hate the drive to the ship and the fast goodby. I get this sick in the pit of the stomach feeling. It is different than it was when we loved. I liken this feeling to a feeling of pure emptiness in the gut.

Now I look forward to the hours i can work uninterrupted on a painting or a Victorian dress I make for a special occasion. I made reservations for a get together of women who belong to a group called,"Carolina Belles." We will meet in NC and it is a 3 day fun filled time. One of the days we tour a place called Old Salem in NC. We will all be in Victorian clothing with our elaborate gowns, hats and parasols. Trust me, this is not just an American passion as there are many european women who belong to such clubs.

This Sunday I have a Victorian tea luncheon dedicated to.... GUESS WHO? It is a salute to Queen Victoria! We will all be in full Victorian tea ensembles. On Memorial day I go with this group to our beautiful Elmwood Cemetary where many famous of the city of 1800's are buried including famous politicians.
I will be in full mourning dress and black silk bonnet with long face shielding veil. Then we will go to the Victorian lunch. Does that sound like pure escapism?

Sorry you ladies are not around here because we would get out and share some time together.There are now warm summer days and this is a nice area. I will get the boat detailed and ready to go by mid month and get out for a couple weekends in nearby marina areas overnight.

My plan is to spend time at the gym and in the pool and work on getting in better shape. So, I it is tough to deal with a life that is not as we planned it but the best thing for me is to improve myself and enjoy this time. I will try on being single again during these months.

Bambar I am blown away by the cruel and nasty dominant female
remarks your husband shared with you. That is so ugly to have said to you. I hope you lined up Mr. Wonderful in front a mirror and brought him to reality about his charms to such females. Unless he has a credit card with lots of open to buy it is doubtful he ever had or ever will acheive that fantasy. I would think it is repugnant to stand in the same room.

I am looking at the time here as positive. The house, luxery autos and boat are in my name alone. My house is free and clear and when he is gone I live well. I still think it would be fun to sign up again with the dance classes. Since I work from home and on my time I can do as I please. Lucky, a settlement finally paid off so I am in good shape. It just gives me some extra expendable funds to feel safe about.

I appreciate being able to share things with you. It is toxic to keep the feelings inside during these times. Him..he has not got a clue. He thinks roses and candy bought my silence and gets him peace so he can go on and pretend he is a good husband. I am totally non-confrontive so he is a happy man most of the time. I keep my mouth shut and he kisses me goodby and goes off...the happy warrior.

Bear~
2nd May 2008, 03:41 PM
Bambar; LMAO* = Laughing My Ass Off

I'm so glad to hear about the counseling...you will Love it and feel so much better after.

I have to tell you, when I think about hubby telling you about the "French Maid" thing I'd like to put my boots on and grab a whip! My Mom was French/Lakota...I'm 5' 11" in boots and after 2 husbands,4 sons,and a grandson...I can kick some butt ;)

Please find a way to Forgive him though...not doing so will keep the poison in you* See him for the weak,sad,and very lost guy he is*

I mean it took him 20 years to put it all into that one statement...most men have that Fantasy and then move on to the next~




Aok Gal,

Love the sound of your Heart when you talk about your Victorian Dress Party! Dancing,painting,and dressing Beautiful...Great ways to take care of YOU*

I'm off today to get my house and dogs taken care of...tonight I'm going out with my sisters and want to put together some little Gifts for them*


Great to hear you both taking care of your Hearts&Souls* You are both Beautiful, Sensitive,and Loving Women...take your share of Life back!

***Bless You***

1aokgal
2nd May 2008, 08:15 PM
Dear Bear.....

You got my vote anytime for Dominatrix of the month! 5'11" in boots and the rest . Oh my! Can I be your agent??

Bet we could keep you booked for months!!
Here I am at barely 5'2" (when I lie about it) and my daughter at 5'9" towers over me.

Bambar...some women buy those french maid costumes and enter into the fantasy of the man .....but unless he is packed real well..... I can sure understand why he sounds pretty pathetic. These men should all have to take lie detector tests and sexual surveys before they are allowed to marry.

I did not do well and like Bear married more than once so likely my barometer for such things is sadly out of wack.

If I knew I would go sexless all these years I would have been hell on wheels when I had all that traffic coming my way years back. Darn I by-passed a lot of good times looking for "the one." I should have read some of those great books out there for young women today. Maybe I would have detected the signs along the way.
Maybe sometime I should sit him down and let him read these posts. He sure tells me he loves me all the time but I can't figure what planet he came from. Maybe sex was by osmosis there? By the way...are we married to the same guy? It sure sounds like it.

I don't know if I would want to be 20 something girl and hunting today for a man. I saw the guys the other day at the marina in the restaurant there. Sleeveless shirts with biceps and a million tatoos. ballcap on backwards. pants hanging down and no haircut for the longest time. Not to mention pretty unshaven...YUK. Not my taste in men. I like them shorn and clean, no ballcaps when he meets me or sits with me. I been known to reach over and remove them with an "excuse me...but let's take this off." Seems we go back to neanthrathal man.

Mine is good looking, shorn, smart but won't ........ So I guess girls, we have to make our lives happy as best we can. I have some months togo dance, go boat and for all that, Bear, dosen't sound too bad, does it?

Bambar
3rd May 2008, 04:52 PM
Hi everyone

Bear

I’d love to see you in your full regalia, kicking butt.

Aolkgal & Alice

Ironically, the disclosure of what my husband had wanted didn’t revolt me. If he’d said it early enough, at the right time, I might have been happy to go along with it, at least to some extent, though I doubt I could have taken it seriously, which he would have found humiliating. I’ve never been much of an actress & would have found the whole thing hysterically funny. Anyway, it’s too late now.

The real issue is that I can’t get past his failure to tell me about it in the first place, then letting me humiliate myself & be desperately unhappy for so long, thinking it was my fault things went wrong. I don’t know whether it was cowardice on his part or just that he didn’t trust me, but it seems so terrible to me to embark on a serious relationship without real trust between the couple. It also doesn’t make any kind of sense to me that someone who purports to care about me so much could watch me suffer for so long & keep me trapped in such a miserable situation. I really don’t think I can forgive that.

I do feel sorry for him, in a way. It seems so sad that we might have had a happy relationship together, or that we each might have been happier alone or with others, instead of being stuck in this awful charade. I doubt that he has been much happier than I have. Perhaps I was more ambitious than him. He was willing to settle for the tedium of a mundane life where the most exciting thing to consider is what to have for dinner. I wanted to feel special to someone for something more than my ability to put a decent meal on the table.

Being competent at the practicalities of life which he chose to ignore was all he wanted from me. I am the one who mends things, puts things right, plans & organises to make life easier for him. He can’t even work the central heating controls in the house. This “studied incompetence” was once charming & outweighed by his intellect & work ethic. Now it makes me feel as if I had been interviewed for the post of cook/housekeeper/handyman rather than offered an equal partnership with all the ups & downs that entails.

Today he has asked again if I want to go out for a meal or to go on some other outing to buy plants for the garden. He seems to forget, conveniently, that just a day ago we discussed where he would look for a new home & how to fund it. Why is he planning things for the garden here? Maybe he thinks I’ll change my mind, or that if he turns a blind eye to what he dislikes, then it isn’t happening.

Well, tonight I’m going out with two friends I was at school with. I can’t decide whether or not to tell them my news. Probably not, as I don’t want to sour the evening or stop the conversation. We should have a good time anyway.

Bear~
3rd May 2008, 06:31 PM
Bambar; my True full regalia...is fluffy slippers! ; )


I hear you about hubby telling you too late to actually do what he wanted! I've been there/tried that with my hubby~ I too would giggle...sometimes he'd join in...

Men are so afraid of failure...and not being accepted* After raising all of my boys I so understand they are much more sensitive then females to be seen as "less then" what ever the World says a man should be~ My own hubby has sat on things for months before blurting them out...each time I would tell him waiting so long makes Me feel untrusted and I get resentful.

He just did it Thursday...plopped down and stated "I'll be gone most of Saturday with my Friend Rowdy we're taking the boys out"...I looked at him and said "oh good,I'm going out all Friday night with my sisters"~ His mouth dropped to the floor BUT,he got it...and couldn't say anything*

We will always have Trust issues...and we're trying to deal with that...he used to tell Me just hours before he had plans...like I would do something to ruin it or be upset about it. I too took it personally...but it was his past that made him that way...not Me being bad~

Believe Me men can sit there for years watching you upset and not do what you need...first off they are clueless unless you can get thru to them that we think different* Mine would buy Me flowers...which I don't really like...he thought that made things okay*

Inside I wanted him to just be with Me...not always rushing by Me to the laptop, or TV and then falling asleep on the couch~ So the flowers he saw as a wonderful Gift ... I saw as a slap in the face* To Me they said "I did this nice thing now shut up and get out of the way...I don't have time for you leave me alone"~

I too am the one cooking,organizing,paying bills,and making sure everything runs on time~ These things are known by him but,not noticed unless NOT done~ Somehow, we do become the cook and maid...I actually started hating the words "What's for supper" ARHHHHHH! They are afraid to say that now* They say "is there anything to eat"? LOL!

His asking you to go out for a meal,or to start the garden...it's his way of trying to fix things...mine does that too* It's almost like they think everything will be okay if we just start doing things* My hubby says when he doesn't know what to do... he just does nothing...not even realizing that's the very thing a female takes as not caring*


Maybe you could talk to him while you do the garden...men seem to hear better if they're doing things while they talk...and not face on...if you notice men speak with each other while doing things like sports,fixing cars,watching TV...side by side...but,not face on~

I think men feel threatened and already at a loss when they have to sit down for "the Talk" and that's why it never works...they are already in "Protection Mode"~ They see it as an attack*

Hope you enjoyed your night out! I sure enjoyed mine...and now time to do my 12 hour shifts*


Ok Gal,

Dominatrix of the month! I'm 5' 9" and as my patients pointed out 6' in clogs LOL! Maybe you could set up a retirement job for Me* HaH*

My Best Friend is 5' 1/4",she lies and says 5' 1"...it's just too cute! We've been together 41 years with 5 hubbys between us* I don't have the Heart to tell her at our age she's probly slipped below 5' ;)

You do have a wonderful Life...just Wish for you that one thing you need to come this year*

Alice Alice,

Bear....Sweet and dangerous beauty of a forest princess.> I like that...all of my Names have to do with being a Huntress and a Healer* My Daughter in-law called Me Princess when we first met~ Now she calls Me "MaMa"*


Love&Hugs to ALL***

Alice Alice
3rd May 2008, 10:49 PM
We all understand don't we, even if its not the same it seems to ring true in other levels of this kind of man.
Their profile: they work hard and come home to complete relaxation they unwind in our presence but we feel left out.
They are wonderful gift buyers and seem to remember to fill the vase with fresh flowers.
I think its a communication problem mixed in with a superior complex. We don't need reassurance of who we are because we are strong willed type of women. It seems my husband needs to prove me wrong or just doesn't have the social skills that takes to carry a conversation to the next level without it ending like a power struggle.
He was attracted to me for my qualities and i for his but it ended there we just haven't grown together as individuals.

Bamber i feel like you when i address an issue he feels the need to ignore me then later clam he didn't know...its childish tactics
You are at the end of your rope with his on going neediness.
i hope he will listen to you while you 2 are gardening. my heart goes to you on this time xoxo

I wish i had a wonderful mother in law...Bear your words are healing that's for sure Bear Hugs are the best xoxo

((((HUG))))

1aokgal
5th May 2008, 08:40 AM
Bear.....

You are the funny one and have such a sweet nature and you go with the flow. I think you may have hit on something with men and how they communicate side by side and not head-on. That seems true as I think about it. The "talks" that women have with men over these issues are usually confrontive and accusing and the men are already insulated not to hear it.

Bambar

You, the intellectual who cuts to the core and can sum up the complex outpourings of the hurt and sad here. There is so much buried emotions in the outpourings as it falls freely. Most are in so much pain they cannot make sense of it all.

The last night he was home in bed I came in later as usual...and cold..as always. He said,"Here , let me hold you awhile." I have the cat who comes under the covers next to me and warms me with his body. Warmth and dedication, as he has for the years he has been with me.

I said "Just let me roll over." Here is that sweet cat replaced him as far as I am concerned. This one was nursed by me since the two cats were two days old with a doll bottle every 2 hours . They were found by kids who carried them away and the mother could not get back to them. The mother of the kids brought them to me and these kittens were only two days old. I fed them expensive formula every 2 hours round the clock with a doll bottle until they were going to survive and I kept them.

Hope. I named him for his precarious hold on life, thinks I am his mother. He often sleeps next to my body under the covers until he goes to the foot of the bed. He replaced the husband who forgot I was there. The truth is, when I said this, I hoped it hurt his feelings when I turned away. Since he spent all these months at home as all the years before there has been no sex. Why would I want to be close to him? He is a total enigma to me.

He emailed me as soon as he left and reached the ship. He left at 4AM and he had kissed me goodbye. He said I just slept but touched his face. Why does all that matter to him? I said to him when you get back I want you to see a counselor. He said nothing and did not respond at all. It was as neat a by-pass as always. He won't and I won't push it as it is a lost issue.

The truth is I would do better to just enjoy my life as best I can. If there would ever be sex again in my life I am pretty sure it won't be with him. I don't think it is yet a dead issue for me. I think I am just tired of his issues and not willing to give up on my being a woman. There is even that part of me that is so angry that any man would treat me with such complete assurance I will accept that. If he chose to live celibate, I did not.

Since he will be gone again for months I found someone to do the lawn. I am sure I will find whatever I need. When I am often at the boat marina where I am one of perhaps three women boat owners out there. There are men all over the place who are hardy and outdoors usually 50 plus and many retired to enjoy a luxery boat. I have found they are fascinated that a woman handles a boat as well as I can. I spent 7.5 years as a Coast Guard Auxiliary officer so I am more than capable in handling my boat on local waters.

I bought this fine SeaRay boat new in 1999 new and it sparkles with a wash and wax. The boat has two small cabins, bathroom with shower and vanity, stove, microwave and frig and powers like a dream. It is wonderful to set to sea. I will need to find a new lady friend who is functional since the other left the area.

You would laugh to see me today all Victorian dressed 1890 with huge hat and parasol. So women can be chameleons in our lives. The problem is the men we chose bound us emotionally and we put up with all this. When I was 35 I would have taken a lover and kicked him to the curb. Maybe I feel I get some of my life back when he walks through the door. I feel free again.

mifefish
7th May 2008, 11:58 PM
hello everyone back again sorry to say. it was a very short lived reprieve from the living hell this woman has me living in. she now says it makes her sick at her stomach to touch me or have me touch her???
someone please tell me why i cant break free from this woman?
i am a decent hard working guy who loves his kids adn mother.
and wants to love his wife mentally , spiritiually, and yes physically.
am i so wrong to think it should be this way?
she is literally killing any resemblence of pride i have left a little at a time.
one rejection at a time. she screams but i love you if i mention divorce.
i am not a person to threaten or use it to get what i want.
i think i am doomed. i dont really believe in divorce, but it is looking like suicide is the other answer. adn my kids need me pretty bad so thatis out of the question. i am in dire need of some support someone. why has this happened to me. why am i allowing her to suck the life force from my body and spirit. my mother calls me everyday asking if i have filed the papers yet. but i say no every day. i keep hoping for a miracle, but it never comes. are there any miracles left over i could use just part of one? if you know of any please e-mail me one or mail or any way

lost in the desert again.

mike:(

Bambar
8th May 2008, 08:40 AM
Mifefish

Sadly, we all know there are no miracles & that we are the only ones who can take control of the situation. You & your wife both seem to be in turmoil, clinging to the shreds of your relationship & hoping that things will improve but not daring to take the steps which might set you on a better path.

Even if your wife is unwilling to consider counselling or some other kind of therapy, you would find it helpful for yourself. You cannot use the threat of divorce to blackmail her into going, but you could make it clear to her how unhappy the situation is making both of you & suggest that this might help clarify things for you both.

Do this without having an argument, in a way which shows how anxious & concerned you are for the survival & improved health of your marriage. Be open to the real possibility that things might be revealed which you would each rather ignore & acknowledge that apportioning blame is not a productive exercise. In any relationship there is a blend & balance to be made between the strengths & weaknesses of both parties & none of us are entirely blameless for whatever goes wrong.

Having the courage to face this problem squarely & accept the support of an impartial counsellor will help to raise your self esteem & pull you out of the depths of introspection which threaten to swallow us all on this site. It is so easy to waste time & end up going round in circles for years instead of doing something which, however painful, might well safeguard the future for us & our children.

Take a deep breath, regain your composure & act rationally. Do not let the heightened emotion of the moment blind you to the need to approach this problem in a practical way.
Take care of yourself.

mifefish
8th May 2008, 11:13 PM
i have tried on many occasions to have a non confronting talk and it goes nowhere. she says she has lost her drive due to perimenopause. ok , go to the doc adn they have things for it. i haev done extensive research. she says she is glad its gone. for awhile??? how long is awhile? 6 months seems like a long time to me. i am a totally physical man i always have been i made this epically clear to her when we dated before marriage. adn she expects me to put my needs on hold and just hang on till hopefully some day she finds it again. does this sound as crazy to you as it does to me? i have women throwing themselves at me on a daily basis but i wont indulge as badly as i want to. i feel like a hungry person in a nice restaurant with a pocket full of money adn they wont serve me.
i just hate to be a 2 time loser i guess? i jumped into this marriage too soon after my first divorce looking for peace adn a home life (its what i do best) but she apparrently was a liar. now i feel like its my duty to put up with it for better or worse thing you know. is it my duty????

after only 1 yr of marriage when we should be rocking and rolling making memories to talk about in our old age we are fighting everyday about why she wont make love to me? my heart is absolutely aching 24 hrs a day.
i even passed out the other day in my bedroom. it was from the stress. i know it. we had fought adn i stood up and the lights just went out.

1aokgal
9th May 2008, 02:59 AM
Dear Mifefish.......

I am sincerely sorry to read of the misfortune of the day to day you experience in the sexless marriage. Welcome here to discuss, vent and regain composure as Bambar put it.

Only those who live with this anomaly can understand the pain, hurt and anger that comes like a rollercoaster ride with the day to day living with a rejecting spouse. Reaon? She thinks hormonal changes, some of us think other personality problems or deep seated problems with our mates cause this. We are in a wasteland where the sex is controlled by the other person and we are left to hang out.... sick, rejected, sad, and wondering what we did wrong or if we got the luck of the "draw" with the one we chose as partner.

I had a doctors exam today and spoke of the problem. I also talked about all the nice things about my partner, the 97% good person. The doctor said that was a good ratio in this life but the 3% is SOOO important to some of us. What to do? Well, there is about NOTHING we can do except to make OUR lives as good as we can because nothing is going to alter the problem if the other person won't or can't address it. Either by choice or lack of intent to get answers medical, personal and whatever tools are out there the other person has to WANT to acknowledge the fault and want to change it.

Our only choice is to STAY or GO. Some us will stay because it is too late in the game to do anything else so options then are to be happy or not. Tough, isn't it? Watch out for the stress you talked about with passing out of excess anger. That is a breeding place for violence in the marriage or real health crisis for yourself.

Get out more..go have a guys night out as play poker, play sports, go to the gym and make that your time. I am doing more of the gym time and that helps a lot to burn off some energy and get out of the isolation of bitter thinking. We don't need a health crisis as a result of angry thinking. Good luck.

Bambar
9th May 2008, 02:24 PM
Mifefish

The way your frustration leads to anger is not only detrimental to your health, but might have some bearing on your marital problems. You write about your wife in a way that implies she is not a beloved partner with whom you wish to rekindle a loving sexual relationship, but a dishonest person who has short-changed you in a contract.

If you approach this problem in the same way as you write, appearing aggressive & demanding of your "rights", your wife is unlikely to find this an attractive prospect. She may even fear that your anger will lead to violence. She is also unlikely to find your flippant attitude towards her medical problems supportive or constructive.

You use the term "making love" but apply it only to the idea of her giving you what you want. Lovemaking is not a form of currency in a commercial transaction where your wife pays a debt she owes you. Instead it should be something creative & generous, for your mutual benefit & pleasure. Fighting over your frustration is unlikely to be an appealing prelude to lovemaking for your wife. Perhaps the women who "throw themselves" at you find your aggression attractive, but they do not have to live with it every day.

mifefish
9th May 2008, 05:07 PM
thanks for all you rideas and thoughts everyone.
i did not realize how angry i sounded or i guess i am inside. thanks for the wake up call. i dont have a violent bone in my body i would never act out in violence. however i do sometimes want to say ugly things to her (like she says to me)but i dont most of the time.i dont feel lke she owes me sex its not like that, i guess i feel like her lost attraction for me is an indication of her love or lack of it i feel she has for me. i tried to tell her last night its not the act of sex that i truly miss its the intimace the close body on body contact the feeling of oneness, the knowlwdge that there is someone in the world who i know thinks i am the 'one" the pain of her rejection has made me doubt the man i am. my confidence level is at an all time low. i know it sounds terribly shallow to think the loss of your sex life could do this to a person, but it has i doubt everything i do now. i never doubted myself in anything. i did it and if it was wrong i would fix it.
now i just dont know.

i have tried everything to get her to go to the doctor but she will not acknowledge she has a problem. she says its the normal life cycle and i should understand and just put my desires adn needs on hold.
i have truly tried to do this but i just cant do it any further. i am beginning to believe the only answer is try again someday i am going to the attorney monday
i want her out of my life. there has to be a better way to live.

i was married for 19 years to a woman whom i loved with all my heart and a religeous cult took her away from me and our children. i thought i knew what true love felt like and when i married this woman i thought it was the same I WAS WRONG. i hate to admit defeat but it appears i have lost at the game of marriage again.

good bye all for now and thank you for all your thoughts, ideas and support.
there just is no way to repair the damage that has been done to
our young marriage. i am a 48 yr old good man. who knows how to love someone if they will allow me to. there will be someone who wants to retire to the lake with me someday.



mike

1aokgal
10th May 2008, 07:11 PM
Mifefish.......

I am in no place to diagnose your marriage. I do suspect, however, there are relationship issues that may cause the cooling of the sheets. When a husband presses for his rights and believes that he will leave the marriage for the lack of sex......that seems emotional blackmail to me.

I think if you leave this one year old marriage to go look elsewhere for a more receptive female, you are like a turtle who will carry his problems on his back into the next relationship. I think you are a tight angry man. That can be a real turnoff in the bedroom. If you put some of that dominance and testosterone into doing loving and helping things your relationship might turn around. Love is 97% other things and 3% sexual. Seems harsh to leave the rest for the one bad issue. Maybe it is a fixable.

Is she working? Are there children and she comes home from work and gets dinner and cleans up while you read the newspaper? Examine the day to day and see if you are a helpful partner who carries part of the load. Sounds as if your wife has retreated into a shell of being tired and depressed. Do you have a date night? Just the two of you go out to movie or dinner and get away and go dancing or socialize? Maybe it will take a little work to be a sport who does the dishes and cooks sometimes but that might bring some great bedroom action.

Moody, slamming doors men can cause a real hardening of the heart and your side of the bed will grow colder. Women are like puppies who crave affection and praise and perform well with rewards and good humor.
I am sure the ladies here will not be offended by that analogy but a water fight or walks and hand holding sure helps overcome the inertia of too busy schedules and relationship issues. The more you push for sex the less you might understand how women have a lot of emotional issues and see it from a different angle.

Do you think it is easier to be a two time loser or one who loves enough to help get to the root of the problem? I think you may be more responsible than you realize. Yours sounds like a workable if you laugh more and scowl less. There must have been a lot you loved about this lady and you seem real bent to throw that away. Here is where the "For better or worse" comes in to the scene. How often are you moody and angry.... which kills any desire in an instant. Maybe your personality needs a makeover?

You don't keep trying on shoes until you find the right one. You may already have the right one and just need to be a loving and understanding, helpful guy. Think carefully before fattening the pockets of another lawyer that you may not be the victim here but part of the problem. It would also be helpful to sit down and read a faith based book as to the "rightness" of how you percieve the situation. Good luck.

mifefish
12th May 2008, 08:14 PM
i do all the house work she is an absolute messy person.
her 18 yr old daughter is an absolute pig who disrespects my home
i do most of the cooking. hers is not very good but i dont tell her its bad when she does cook

she does work which she puts nothing into the household i pat for everything and dont mind. her daughter blows through her paychek every week asap.

no kids together SHE WILL NOT GO TO COUNSELONG, DOCTOR, OUR PASTOR , FAMILY COUNSELER AT OUR CHURCH( WHERE SHE WONT ATTEND ANYMORE)

i tell you i have tried it all and still she says its my problem to deal with?
sorry.

how can the fact she completely changed the way she treats me with no motive i can find. i have done nothing except almost stop drinking almost stop all my hobbies. try to do anything she needs me to do. and still she is cold.

i have read my bible and books etc. and yes it is her DUTY to take care of my feelings adn desires. according to the bible adn the books i have read.

so that being said now give me any last ideas>

Alice Alice
13th May 2008, 07:17 PM
i agree with Bear 100%

mifefish
14th May 2008, 12:00 AM
any others??

i have learned so much through reading and really listening to this board.
its amazing what you can learn about yourself when strangers listen to and comment on your deepest thought and fears with no preconceived notions of you.
i am not a quitter of anything i have never failed to finisg anything in my life, except my first marriage. which was not ended by me. my ex was not the sharpest tool in the shed to say it kindly and was easily influenced by people, even me adn i didnt even know i was doin it.
i am a fixer adn a giving soul by nature, i have learned this about myself through this process. and i have also found out there are people out there who are parasites and takers. and they are very good at doing it without you realiuzing they are doing it.
i have unfoutunetly found one of those. adn even worse i fell desperately in love with one. my heart is big but not very tough, she has i am afraid killed it. and still i dont blame her i blame me for letting it happen.
i know i need to chuck her to the curb but the hurt i will hve to endure to accomplish this?? i dont know??
please say a prayer for me and my two kids we are going to need it as i know the process i am going to begin very shortly will probably be our undoing.

thanks again for your thoughts and ideas you all can see i am done barring a miracle. and i dont think there are any of those left.

mike

Bear~
14th May 2008, 04:02 AM
Mifefish~

Don't be so hard on your self* Every painful thing I've gone thru in Life has been worth it~ Put all your Love into your children...it will Heal you*

Bless you***

1aokgal
14th May 2008, 04:10 AM
Dear Mifefish...

Where do you live? I am in US. I think we, from different countries do have a different slant on the expectations in the marriage. It is sad you invested the second time marriage and find you play house alone. I hate the aspect of the partner being the gatekeeper with the rejection and leaving us to hang out and dry, as you will. This woman would be the first one to scream if you go outside the marriage to find what is lacking.

Pity is when you care about the person deeply and find many qualities there but have no inkling of why they shut down the intimacy. That is the case in my marriage. He would do anything for me and assures me daily I am loved. It is hard to feel loved when there is no one to comfort you on a sad day or be happy with you for a bright sunny day. It is all monotone and there has been no passion and won't ever be again. His issues have become my issues. What ever is wrong with the one who rejects finally passes on the rejected spouse like a case of chicken pox. My sexuality is ripped to shreads by this rejection. It is hard to feel pretty when the partner tells you that you are ....but there is never going to be any sex.

When I go into the world for anything men flirt with me because I am a attractive and lively. Twice today men paid heed to me. The guy in the next bank lane in fact, complimented me on my car and how I looked in my car. DUH! That says I am no frog. It makes me angry as my husband leaves for many months to work on a ship overseas and I am left just the way it has been for years. That makes me angry. Who wants to be treated as having no value?

I am picking up my Flamenco dancing again this week with a lesson after some years. SO glad I did not sell my gorgeous outfits or hand made shoes from Spain. Most husbands would think that was a pretty sexy thing, wouldn't they? Mine told me often to go back and dance again as he likes to talk to others about it when I dance somewhere.... Most would NEVER believe we are not some hot couple. Too bad I enable him to be less a man by keeping his secret and not OUTING him as a liar who comes into the marriage and plays a role. To tell it.....he thinks he has a great marriage. He is a happy man so long as I don't bring it up to him "the talk."

He is what he is. If it would be different he would have changed years ago. I should not have stopped dancing. SO now I have a few pounds to lose to get me back in shape again so I can dance without collapsing! It is true I have passion in the things I do for myself...the painting, the dancing and the enjoyment I bring from my own activities.

I can hardly wait to dress in my Flamenco skirts and put my hair up and dance again in a class or at an event here localy. One need not be 25 to do these dances or to have a partner. One instructor who is wonderful and vibrant is 82 years old.Do you beleive that? She is amazing! For me this is for very good health and it certainly is a workout.
I know I am troubles because I post here and when I went to this new doctor we talked about this scene for about 15 minutes. She said this was causing me great stress. We can all identify with that. It hurts to almost have a good life and be denied that from the one we chose. We can give love but that is denied. These partners are empty shells with no passion.


Mifefish...
I think it is too soon for you to run for cover in this young marriage. There are children as well in your life and family. Sit down and without anger make an ultimatum that she get counselling, talk to her doctor or set a date night for adult company with you. Tell her honestly you feel pressed to the wall to perhaps separate.

You sound like a very nice man. Go fishing or go do something you enjoy on a regular basis. Something that brings you passion.

mifefish
14th May 2008, 05:48 PM
i live in okla where else would someone have a screen name with the word fish in it? hahahahah

seriously i was and am in love with her but i dont think she knows the meaning of the word. and i can guarantee you i do.
she has her kids and i have mine with none together (thank god).
i was up most of the night (again) last night. trying to figure any way to keep this marriage alive. i just dont see it?? the no physical issue is a mountain i just cant climb. also my teenage son loathes her adn part of it is her fault. i know this she is pretty unfair to him at times. i of course come to his rescue but it is always too little too late. her kids are a simmering pile of you know what just waiting to erupt in another drama filled episode at any time. so all of these combined spells FINISHED i think.
people who know me well spoke frequently of the word REBOUND!!!!!
when i allowed her to move in with me. and i of course knew better.

i will probably never trust again from this experience but i have only myself to blame.
i will not wallow in the same mud for 2 or 3 yrs with this woman i am 48 and not at all ready to be celibate. i am an extremely physical creature i always have been. the last 6 months has been the most frustrating of my life. i read a book the other day the 5 language of love. i am the one who loves and receives love by physical intimacy adn without it i feel like i am starving to death. thanks again here i go back to my atty.

Bambar
14th May 2008, 11:20 PM
no name

Welcome to the site. If you have read many of the posts made here you will be aware of how damaging & corrosive a relationship like this can be. Unless both parties can willingly agree that there will be no sexual element to the relationship, resentment & pain will inevitably develop. You describe your husband as a kind & caring man, but few of us have endless reserves of patience & tolerance.

You are both unhappy with this situation & will have to work together to overcome it. You have the advantage of still caring for one another, so it is important to take action now, while the mutual goodwill is still in place. Your fear of sex may have physical as well as psychological grounds & your best way to tackle it would be to start by finding a doctor you trust. Without having the courage to disclose your concerns to a professional person like that, there is no hope that things will improve. Family doctors will not be shocked or embarrassed at such information & will be able to refer you for further therapy, should you need it.

It is important that you deal with this major issue within your relationship before you even contemplate having children. A child is not a remedy for an unstable relationship or a distraction from your problems & should not be conceived just because one of the couple thinks it would be a good idea, or to fulfil the hopes of potential grandparents. Spend your time looking after yourselves just now & there will be plenty of time later to consider starting a family.

Take care & good luck.

1aokgal
15th May 2008, 09:05 AM
Dear Miefish...

Well, I live in a resort city where the ocean is about 15 minutes away and though I have a boat, I do NOT fish. When one has wall to wall carpeting one does not pull in nasty fish aboard. One can always go to a great seafood restaurant as there are thousands of them here and order all that on a plate. I do walk o the piers and see some fine great fish being hauled in though.

You talk about staying up late or not sleeping. This has been going on for years with me. I work on the PC, sew, watch TV or go for late walks with the dog but the problems of this situation so has me baffled I never can sleep well. It seems I sleep more in shorter time but i the late afternoon often will fall asleep in the chair.

There are times I realize I fell asleep over this keyboard. When he is here I don't like to sleep in the king size bed. In my mind I paint pictures or review a project or just generally plot out things I am working on at the time. That makes me a rather nocturnal animal. When life was pretty normal that was never a problem. When I review in my mind to go way back I realize that there were always sexual problems with him even at the beginning. I was willing to overlook things and thought it was a situational and would pass. He likes life perfectly fine with the absence of sex all together. The beginning years were just tokens to bind me into the marriage. The truth was I was grateful to have the relationship and thought he was such a decent man I did not ask for a lot. One could say I was pretty low mainteneance. I am always so self sufficient and made excuses for poor lack lustre performance. When you are really taken with someone you don't examine things so close.

I am glad he has gone for awhile. The empty house does not bother me and I have the pets for companions. The last couple days have been occupied by getting things repaired or done. I have a man to install a new hot water heater tomorrow and a pool company will be here to replace the sand in the pool filter. The kid came and mowed the lawn.

Then I worked on the garage to clear out some clutter. I got a man at the marina to look at the boat and do a small fibreglass repair. I realized that I seem to have found an increase in energy to get all these things done as I feel better about the next few months and the pleasant summer to come.

I unpacked my dance shoes ready for my class upcoming. There will be a performance here of this Flamenco company and the dancer who teaches is extremely well known for her appearances. I know I will enjoy to get back into this. I do find it rough to cut way back on my eating to get off a few pounds. Celery sticks are tasty but sure not very filling. I don't smoke or drink so eating has been a drug of choice in anxiety times. Now that I plan to dance again that is not an option. I am sure when I get back to going to the gym I will feel less anxious about things. Usually when I paint I find that also is calming.

I think, Miefish, you have already made the decision to cut there. It is sad to hear you have feelings but won't work through some issues. Of course, I am at the opposite end of the spectrum because I realize I won't seek what is not there to find. I might be willing to have an affair if conditions were acceptable but I would not leave the marriage after all these years to begin again. It is what it is here. I also think his issues are now my issues so I doubt if intimacy could ever again be an option here or elsewhere. While I think passionately, the walls around me are monumental. I have become trapped with the negativity of rejection and doubt I could work back through any normal intimacy with a real human being. I don't feel dead behind these walls just incapable of being warm to another. That is like the chicken Pox I mentioned in a previous post. We end up with the same issues as the rejecting partner.
I wish you the wisdom to make a good decision. I reread some old letters between my husband and I and years ago I did file a separation over this issue and decided to stay as I did and do care deeply for him. Mainly I did not want to begin again. Sometimes one has to admit that happiness can be in other things and not in another person. The women in my family for five generations never found good marriages.

Alice Alice
16th May 2008, 03:22 AM
Hi 1aokgal
You are such a lovely lady don't spoil yourself with an affair. It will leave you feeling lonely.
Have a great weekend, we are having lots of sunshine.:)

1aokgal
16th May 2008, 04:48 AM
Dear Alice Alice.........

Thanks for your input on these issues. As I said in my post, I have so many issues I don't think I could have a relationship...sexual or other with another human being. It is like I caught his many issues. The walls are SO high around me. I also have been around the pike a few times and recognize predators when I see them.

I am too self sufficient to be needy and I have too many activities to stand still long enough to become interested in another. I actually have life pretty good with everything. Right now I can be prefectly selfish and do exactly what I want and have the means to live well. That is really not all bad.

I hope things are better for you now. You got relocated OK?

My husband leaves messages on my cell phone that he hopes I am getting out and enjoy myself. Truly, he is a nice man. I pity him for throwing happiness away with both hands.

Alice Alice
16th May 2008, 09:24 AM
1aokgal
Good to hear, i am very impressed with your abilities and successes.
We don't need men as much as men need us (please guys its just us girls right now talking). You have become very dear to me i want to send you my prayers that you continue to stay focused on your needs that only bring you closer to your true happiness.
Men can take women for granted, we don't know to see it until they are too comfortable with the set up.

Love Gab

1aokgal
16th May 2008, 10:33 AM
Alice Alice.......

I followed some of your history as well in your postings here. It seems you are a person of many gifts who thinks to share a lot of help for others even as you go through your own problems.

There is a richness of character in you. I think you will find all you have walked through with a lot of sorrow about some misteps, will in time lead you to a more secure place in life. I can remember when I was younger and I had a horrible time. Just to keep the lights paid and get from one point to another was difficult. I went to school for years while I worked and there were times I had to keep two jobs to pay for that education and a decent lifestyle. That was real stress.

My life today is secure and and focused a lot on things I enjoy. Who ever said everything would be perfect? I appreciate your kindness and good wishes. It means a lot to me to vent a bit here and share others view of all this. It gets sticky when we try to understand this problem. There are no answers.
Love to you.....Claudette

Bambar
16th May 2008, 05:55 PM
AOKgal

Sorry to hear you are going through such a bad time just now. It is so difficult to cope with the daily reminders of the rejection & pain we feel about this problem. You are dealing with it well by keeping busy & distracting yourself, but I know it does not make things any easier

I wonder if men like ours choose women who are independent & low maintenance because they are basically idle & passive in their emotional lives? The counsellor I spoke to about my own situation talked about that & suggested that my own husband had looked for a mother rather than a wife. Once our separation is complete I wonder how long it will be until he finds someone to replace the housekeeping services I have provided for him for so long. He may have to pay for them this time, though.

Since we agreed to separate we have a really strange relationship. He seems to find it hard to accept that I actually do not want to live with him any more & was surprised that I did not want to continue going on holiday with him! This is interspersed with quite “normal” conversations about the practical aspects of things, like financial arrangements. Generally he now pays me more attention than ever before, & almost acts as if it isn’t happening. It’s as if he thinks that by ignoring the situation it doesn’t exist. I don’t know why I am surprised at that. It’s how he has behaved for the whole time we have been together.

Anyway, keep yourself busy & enjoy the flamenco classes. I’ll think of you dressed in full fig, dancing out a flamboyant expression of your emotions & stamping your way to increased fitness.

mifefish
16th May 2008, 06:26 PM
agreed on the affair thing a-ok
i almost gave in a few times but somehow have resisted.
i know it wont fix anything. you are an awsome person. i can tell just by your words. i wish i knew how these people do the things they do.
i was completely shocked when i found this site by the fact there were women in the same boat as me?? i guess i am just naive.
i am pretty sure i am going to end up divorced pretty shortly. the crime is i love her i truly do. but to live with no intimacy is not an option to me
i know if i dont get that back as part of my life i will die.
i know you cant die from lack of sex??? bulls**t yes you can and i am not going to test the theory. i am a good man with normal desires with a lot to offer someone. i have 2 yr invested in this woman adn i wont put another in with the current effort from her. if she would try something , counseling anyhting i would hang. but with the same answer everytime,
NO BUT HELL NO. i will not do it right now i am just looking for the strength to walk into my atty office. adn move on.

hang in there adn thank you for your wonderful words.

mike

1aokgal
17th May 2008, 08:58 AM
Dear All.....

I see Miefish stays up too late. I have been getting my dance things together for my class tomorrow and looking forward to that so much. I notice the dance studio has a fitness class with dance and floor mat exercises. HMMMM..sounds interesting and fun. I may look into that one.

It seems that three of you have the marriages are not working and want to separate. I am most surprised at Bambar with such a long term marriage who finally has become very remote when she speaks of her husband. I think, Bambar, all the years of neglect never changed your positive feelings for your husband until this admission he made about his fantasy and where that leaves you. That was such a hurtful thing to say and you have completely shut down to any thought of him. You are right in your observation. I think he is stunned you have finally withdrawn from him completely. You always retained some belief in that marriage. In one way I feel very sorry that happened and in another I think it may have opened a door and made you free to some better life.

I admire your courage and spirit and hope your health has improved and you will be alright. So long as you have those children you will always co-parent together even if the marriage is really over. I think he regrets
this result and he depends on you more than he knows.

Miefish, I don't know what someone does in Oklahoma. You are intent to give up on that marriage and the truth is I hate to see that. I think the problem is outside the bedroom and many women will withhold sex when they have little power to make changes and fear direct confrontation. They always say the bedroom becomes the battleground.
Then there are women who feel they are being forced to do things they feel uncomfortable doing and that is a difference in likes and dislikes. How one was brought up and their feelings about sex is very important in a good relationship.

That is one I never understood about my husband as his parents were so devoted to each other in 50 years together until his father died in december. I always wondered how he could be around them and be the cold fish who denied sex in his marriage all these years. Go figure!

Too much analysis is my problem. It is worthless to waste emotional energy to try to understand that which makes no sense.
Goodnight.

Alice Alice
17th May 2008, 10:09 AM
I agree communication is key..the question is how do we make them talk. Seems like all of us here, men and women are married to the China Wall

Alice Alice
17th May 2008, 10:24 AM
Thank you Claudette (georgious name)
(((HUGS))) Gab

Bambar
17th May 2008, 06:43 PM
1AOKgal

Unlike you, I have not had the feelings of love & admiration for my husband that you describe about yours, for many years. I think I have not had many positive feelings about him for ages, but have just made the best of a bad situation. His revelation of the fantasy itself did not matter so much in itself. The real trouble was that he had withheld something so important to him & excluded me from sexual contact, something I thought was an essential part of a loving relationship. That led to a complete breakdown of intimacy & utter imbalance in our marriage.

He has always been remote from me & our sons, choosing to be physically absent most of the time & showing little emotion when he was present. I rationalised about this, using his own justifications to explain his behaviour to friends, but was hurt at his neglect of us all & felt isolated & lonely most of the time. Few allowances were made for my needs, even when I needed & then returned home from major surgery.

I was always made to feel that he was doing me & our sons a great favour when he disrupted the life he chose in order to spend time with us & I came to resent the knowledge that I was ultimately responsible for everything which happened outside his office. The neglect he showed me when I was ill was much more hurtful than I admitted to others & even to myself. Only now can I accept that he never cared for me the way I cared for him, or in the way I had hoped to be cared for.

He is shocked that I no longer tolerate the situation, but you are right that I feel liberated by the thought of a new start. The main problem is actually dealing with the practicalities. I am keen to make a break as soon as it is feasible but he has nothing to gain by it, so is dragging his feet, I think. He has put in an offer on one house but I have registered his details with a few local estate agents so hope that will nudge him into more action.

My feelings have stabilised since the time when I realised he had never cared for me as I’d thought he once did. I now feel less bitter than I did but still resent the years I wasted on someone who never had my interests in mind. There are aspects of his personality I can still respect, like his financial generosity, though I remember him dealing with the split from his first wife in the same way, taking much less than his entitlement as a deliberate mark of how little he cared about her, saying he would not give her the satisfaction of descending to an undignified fight about something so sordid as money! Things were different in their case, as she’d left him for someone else. I suspect I now know why. Anyway, I can cope with a similar “insult” after everything else which has gone on between us.

On the whole, I do not hate this man, just feel indifferent towards him. We will still have contact because of our sons & I am sure we will remain civilised about things, if for no other reason that he avoids anything so passionate as a real argument. Once we are separated & I can break the habit of being a dutiful wife, maybe we might even be able to be more comfortable in one another’s company. Who knows?

Bear~
17th May 2008, 11:17 PM
Bambar,

My first husband said more than once how shocked he was that I would even think of leaving him~

I had been with him since high school... 15 yrs old~ He never thought I'd grow into a woman,have my own ideas and feelings* Only his were important to him.

The last month we were together he tried every trick to make Me stay...then he finally yelled "I've been trying everything and nothing works to change your mind"~ After 18 yrs together he thought I could be controlled in a month!

Every morning when I wake I remember I am Free of him and Thank GOD*

You are a Strong Woman and a Beautiful Spirit* I wish the Best for you...Forgive yourSelf the loss of years passed,and go Forward into your Future to Live your Dream*

(((HUG)))

Bambar
18th May 2008, 12:24 AM
Bear,

Thank you so much for your support & affection. It really helps so much, knowing that someone like you can understand that there is no shame in letting go of this parody of a marriage.

For some people, there are enough positive points in a celibate marriage to make it worthwhile hanging on to it. It seemed like that even to me until I was shown that the relationship was not only sexless, but also loveless. Now I realise I am worth more than I was made to feel for all those years & I'm determined not to waste any more time & effort on someone who appreciates me only for my domestic skills.

It has taken a long time for you & I to get to this stage, hasn't it? We understand that our solution isn't the only one & won't suit everyone's individual circumstances, but it certainly is right for us.

Take care & thnks again for your kindness.

1aokgal
18th May 2008, 11:55 PM
Bambar....

I admire you for the courage to make the break and to acknowledge all the detals that have gone on for so many years. That is the sad part when women believe so much in the sanctity of the marriage they will be the peacemakers and hold things together even when objective common sense dictates otherwise.

When there are children and so many familial tentacles it is impssible to unravel the layers and find what is the right thing to do. There is that apathy too that enables these men as we tend to wait to see if things will improve and there is the hope one clings to that all will be alright. It is true I have this admiration for my husband for his many fine personal traits and especially during my illness he was so devoted in his care of me. The special cooking of things I like and brought dinner on a tray, all pretty and special. He worries I will forget the night pills so he brings them and really asks me what I would like to do or where I would like to go.

He is a loving and helpful man as he can be, it seems. Yet, I know he sees and must be aware of the hurt and emotional sadness of a wife deprived of any intimacy. That is shameful neglect. I could see another confrontation for us when he returns but I also feel it is unlikely to develop into more than a hissyfit, on my part, and an annoyance on his part. I do think he is in need of real counselling to search out the causes of the problem. I will push for that objective. There is also a point when there is so much anger and hurt there can never be any hope. I may be at that point as I think about what makes me happy and realize I am fine with his not being here.

For those who make a decision to divorce here I believe that in todays society most who leave unsatisfactory marriages go on and transition into other relationships pretty fast. The trend is we marry until we get it right. Late romance and remarriages are common. Todays 50 is yesterdays 35 as they say.

Bambar, I think you have made the emotional break after these years and with your intelligence and fine character you will find a happier life. I also think that will include love and relationship. So I urge you to work on your personal issues as weight, fitness and wellness and make good friends and find a good social network. Be ready to be the butterfly who emerges soon.

bowen
19th May 2008, 01:26 AM
I am 26, and have been married 2 years. We have had sex ~5 times since our honey moon. We otherwise have a great relationship, no fighting, and we have alot of fun together. We dated for 7 yrs before getting married, and the 3 years before getting engaged I was repeatedly unfaithful b/c the sex had not been as often. I thought if we get married, and have that commitment I could control my urges to seek sex elsewhere. I have so far, but I don't know how much longer I can hold out. We have talked alot about the issue, and he always makes promises but nothing ever happens. I think he may have a form of ED, it takes a long time for him to get an erection, but he does get one. However, I have not had an orgasm since we've been married from sex with him. He stops before ejaculating. He refuses to talk to a doctor, and swears it is mental, but thinks he can cure himself. He is 10 years older than I am, and I feel like my sex drive is through the roof, and he could care less if ever has sex. I don't know what else to do, did I doom myself from the get go? I knew we wouldn't have the sex life I wanted, but I married him anyway. We do show affection alot, but this is not enough for me. I have recently had dreams of being with another man, and do let my mind wander throughout the day of fantasies w/ other men. I need some help, anyone have a similar situation?

Alice Alice
19th May 2008, 08:01 AM
Hello Ladies
Bambar your time is now ...you are ready for change. I feel this is the way i will deal with my marriage ...timing is key.
Its very good to have this support i always am grateful for all of you ladies :)

bowen...
i feel for you and also for your husband it seems both of you need to come together and be VERY honest with each other in regards to what you need from each other and come to a compromise...as for messing around my advice is don't have an affair

Bambar
19th May 2008, 09:17 AM
AOKgal & Alice

Thanks so much for your support. You are right about timing being the key point & I hope that by my leaving things so late I haven't missed the chance of happiness elsewhere.Whatever happens, I feel relieved that I've come to a decision & look forward to a time when I don't have to put my husband in the forefront of my thoughts. Things are way past the stage where I really would be able to accept any physical contact with him so there's no point in pursuing that any more.

bowen

Welcome to the site.

You seem to have been influenced by the old myth that marriage would make things change & cure what is already wrong in a relationship. At least you knew what to expect from your husband, but whatever made you think he could satisfy you after the wedding when he clearly had not been able to do that before? Was he aware that you had already slept with other just because of his inadequacy, or were there other reasons why you did this?

In the discussions you have, is your husband aware of how deeply this problem affects you & that you are so seriously tempted to look elsewhere for sexual satisfaction? He may be surprised, given that you knew the situation before you married. Threatening that you might again be unfaithful will do nothing to improve his confidence & performance, especially as it does sound as if there are mental as well as physical elements to the problem, but he needs to know how seriously you feel about things.

It sounds as if you both care for each other so you have a head start for improving the situation, but it will require serious commitment from you both & willingness from you both to examine just what is the underlying cause. If your husband feels the problem is all mental, maybe he would accept the idea of some therapy rather than a medical intervention?

Whatever happens, please tackle the problem somehow. Your marriage is doomed if you go outside it for sex or while he is under the impression that you are happy with him & equally, you will both be miserable if you live together as roommates for years without the honesty to face the issue squarely.

Take care of yourself.

1aokgal
19th May 2008, 09:29 AM
Dear Bowen..

Welcome to the site and you should feel better to vent problems here because it is a forum where we can talk about some very personal issues and find many who have been there in that same spot. It has always been helpful for me to realize that I am not alone in what I experience in my marriage.

One thing I wonder about as I read your post. You said your husband stopped short of ejaculation. That is definitely withholding but it also may be significant in another respect. You did not mention if you used birth control? If what he is doing is a form of birth control (he thinks...it does not work that well.) It may also be he has a concern about a pregnancy or that you have not discussed the matter? Certainly, you SHOULD be using birth control. There is nothing more toxic than to have a child brought into an already troubled marriage.

You asked if you doomed yourself.... since you knew the sex was not good before the marriage. I would give that one a resounding YES, it was a real dumb move to marry a man when you knew you had to cheat to meet your sexual needs. You can move over for company as many here had an inclination prior to marriage there was SOME kind of sexual problem but we proceeded anyway. Many were so happy to get the object of their affections as a lifetime partner that we disregarded signs a smart person would have seen easily. Maybe we thought we could FIX a broken person or repair him with our love as you might have done.

Now, your problem will never be resolved if you bed hop somewhere else. It also may put you in danger of a sticky situation, violence, pregnancy or a damned awful disease. Just STOP IT. You owe it to yourself and to this man if you care about him, to search out the answers. Now in many cases with these sexual problems that man has no real need for sex either emotionally or physically .....and that is another niche in a big puzzle. He also may be getting his sex from porn or MB, allby himself and needs no person there. That is an ADDICTION and is one tought thing to ever work out. If that is the case, I would pack now and leave before too many years go by.

First, you need to talk about it.....have some confrontation and try to get him for a medical evaluation. Many men will do none of those. If that is the case, get yourself a good lawyer and don't waste years having sex with others because you can't get it at home. This also makes YOU feel pretty smarmy, dosen't it? I don't know where you live but such side activity is bound to be noticed and found out and then the word goes around. That is not very nice either.

I hope you can work on some of this. It is a HUGE problem..we here all know that. Sorry for you..and hope you keep us posted.

mifefish
19th May 2008, 07:53 PM
thats it the china wall!!!!!!!!

i cant get her to realize or possibly she doesnt care how it is destroying me inside this lack of intimacy between us.
is it possible for a woman to fake being a wild lover for 18 minths straight????? then turn to frigid in the span of 2 weeks??

i am asking is it??? i was married to a woman at first who was the most incredible lover a man could ever have. and i dont just mean the act of sex i am talking she was very attentive to all things between us.
now, my needs neve rcome up. if they do she says that i have the problem. mabey someday her libido may come back. but if it doesnt i need to seek counsel to help me with her lack of desire for me???

i informed her this weekend i wanted her to move out of my house and she went into a complete fit screaming crying, calling me terrible names. i have never called anyone names it is counterproductive. and i have shared this with her numerous times. it just doesnt work.
one of you said i wanted to cut and run from this marriage , i think was the word. not true nothing but the contrary however i cant continue on the course i am now. constantly trying to make her understand but she says too bad i dont want you or anyone else either.

and of course it spills over into everything we do or dont do. it is on my mind when i get upo adn when i go to bed. i dream about it adn i fret about it all day. this is i think unhealthy. i need to break away before its too late adn i cant muster the courage to do it. i can hardley do it now.

its just amazing we are here writing these things adn pouring our hearts out over a thing like this. the most amazing thing god gave us to enjoy. adn there are people who refuse to aknowledge it.

mike

Alice Alice
19th May 2008, 11:25 PM
Mike i hope you find the happiness you deserve.
Have we been conditioned to think we no longer are deserving of a healthy normal relationship?, have we been groomed to think this way?
Our husbands or wives seem to need to control themselves or us?
Its an endless list of questions we may never understand.
If you feel its over then its over if you feel you might get through to her then hang in there and see if it can be resolved.

cath2008
19th May 2008, 11:45 PM
Hello to all of you, I am new to the board as I am researching a feature I am writing for a women's magazine. It's about women who don't have sex - because the MAN in the relationship doesn't want to. This problem seems to be incrediably common. And one that I think a lot of women will benefit to read about.
As part of this feature I am looking for a couple who are willing to be interviewed about this. Whatever the reason is that HE doesn't want to have sex, I would love to hear from you. Please contact me in confidence on cath_mcdonnell@hotmail.com with your name and a contact telephone number.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Catherine

1aokgal
20th May 2008, 01:13 AM
Cath2008,

The purpose of this forum is for people to feel free to discuss their marital problems in the, "No sex in the marriage" area. You are in error to skim here to get contact information from individuals who post here.

Why don't you do the usual thing and place an ad in the personal section of the newspaper or as college students does...do a blind survey? No names should be included in such a questionaire. Most here SURE do NOT want their contact information to be given out to strangers.

That is what you are here. Most would feel an invasion of privacy, as I do, by you being here to ask for such personal information. What are your credentials and why would you think people who post here would be interested in any article? Most already feel vulnerable to talk about the issue here.

I will ask the administrator here about this inquiry. Personally, I think your "survey" is baloney. Just as Alcoholics and Overeaters anonymous have anonymity, so do those who post here feel comfortable to post personal information to be read by others. Why do you think we create screen names? Do you think we want to have our information on a national news show or "tell all" article?

No one knows who you are here and most of us do NOT care to be part of any article about this subject. We also do NOT give our names and contact information or home address here. I call it invasive and trashy to post such a notice here for your curiousity. This no zoo.
Shame on You!

1aokgal
20th May 2008, 01:19 AM
Mifefish........

Maybe the big scene before the marriage was to get you because you are such a prize package? Some women are also scamming for financial stability and a hard working man is a good find. Who knows what baggage this woman had but she now has roof overhead...yours!

Do think carefully of the children involved......hers, as I understand yours are grown, right?

I do not feel comfortable posting here at this time.

Alice Alice
20th May 2008, 01:34 AM
Cath2008,
I agree with 1aokgal this is a sight for people who need privacy...i don't like airing out my laundry like a Springer show...you shouldn't expect respectful people to handout our personal info.

mifefish
20th May 2008, 09:36 PM
nope my kids are 6 and 16 her are 18 and 23
the 18 girl lives with us.

i have thought about the scam thing but it doest add up at least to me.
others have given me the same idea.
is it my duty to stay no matter what>?
i have been reading my bible adn the only reason for divorce is really infidelity. that i can find. i truly want to do whats right. so do i have to go and have an affair then tell her its over because i have had an affair?
i dont think i can get her to have one (obviously)
thats almost humorous you know it?:)

good i found a little bit of me just then i used to be damn funny

i think i just might have found a loophole? whatch think?


i also am objecting to this lady reporter go away please adn look elsewhere.

am i wrong to expect her to love me physically? i dont think i am. but we always think were right.

i have begged her to go to any outlet for help doc , counsel , preacher and i would go with her.
i did go to a counselor by myself a few times it turned out to be a woman counselor. she hit on me for the last two sessions then i decided to go no more. she also advised me to divorce her sooner than later. but i wasnt sure if she had ulterior motives.

mike.......... out again need to work airplanes need to fly adn parts need to be fixed

1aokgal
20th May 2008, 10:44 PM
The thing about posting one's personal life on an internet site is that anyone has access to your information. NOw, some talk about finding a lover and some talk about being lousy unhappy in a marriage. Bet you would NOT post that information on the bulletin board at your church or let that out where you work.
Why not? It is CONFIDENTIAl. I trust you here because you tell me similar things happen in your life. I know you empathize with my sadness. Want to post with your own name and identity so everyone can pick that up?

Do you want to be like Britney Spears person in the news that someone knows you flirt at the grocery store? Well, I do not flirt there, actually I do that at the car wash. I sure don't want my neighbor to know about it though. It is OK if you know it because you know me as 1aokgal and that is OK.

I don't feel comfortable with solicitation to be included in a survey or any article by what's-her-name. Who knows what slant on that story line! Is this a problem that I caused? Do we label one person in a relationship as the Rejector and the other, the Rejectee? Does the person who refuses sex with a mate even know why they do it?

Is avoiding sex in a marriage a mental abhorration or a control devise that we make the other person miserable to get our way? Who knows? Every story here is a bit different but we all have one thing in common. We feel comfortable with all of you...the collective group here..who comes here to try to understand what is going on. We are not psychiarists or counsellors..though some might be...we are not doing a research paper. We are here to dull the pain of the hurt this causes.

We also may seek acceptance and humor from another and a way to cope with living to make it full and vibrant. Some of us can't leave and some of us prefer to go and try again and file for divorce. It takes months, years for some to have the courage to give up a less than vital relationship.

As for me...I love my husband since the beginning when we married on the 25th day. It has been 28 years together and we like the same music, foods, and have the same core values about things. He is a good man and better than many. I trust he wants to do the right thing for me in most everything. He is the core to my heart and if I close my eyes for the last time I hope I will see him.

He works out of the country..so he is gone now. I get an email most days that tells me a few lines he is OK. No question about it he encourages my pursuits. That is 97% great. He is a smart man and I admire him for his intellect and talents. He loves my paintings and the sewing and things I produce. There is always encouragement to me about things I consider to do. We have everything but one element and that is so heart wrenching I could die frm it.


Yes, Mifefish, you can die from this problem as it can burden the heart. If someone said YOU could never again eat gumdrops and you like them a little, not a lot. Guess what ? Denied it becomes more and more important. When you see others and realize you cannot reach out to your partner in love as you will be rejected..for whatever reason, it is devastating. Yet, I see couples who argue over the stupidest thing and they know NOTHING of love. My husband is ILL...somewhere in his psyche something has short wired. He is as disabled as a man who cannot walk for he has lost the ability to give and receive love. He will say daily he LOVES me and does all those other things but is a Eunach for all intents and purposes here.

Do I have a right to look elsewhere? Yes, absolutely, I do as he has broken the marital contract and the biblical admonition for man to cleave to his spouse. There is nothing I can do to force another to be what he will not. Do not get the picture of me as Ms. Quasimoto either. I have never been out and about that someone does not look at me in appreciation. I am educated, well dressed and a class act, say friends.
I am also without a husband except in name only. It should not be that way.

I am sure YOU understand and feel sorry for me. We have not a CLUE as to WHY this happens to our partner but we have this in common.....we do understand each other. We are all pretty vulnerable here. Though we meet the world head on with courage ..it hurts to be in this position.
Tell the voyeurs here that we do not welcome questions.

1aokgal
20th May 2008, 11:18 PM
Dear Mifefish...

I would like to think your wife may have a chemical imbalance as hormone level as in estrogen needed. If she will not even talk with you about it maybe it is because you get too angry and she feels badgered.

It is hard to stay calm when you feel cheated by someone you care about. I would really ask her to get a checkup and see if this is not the problem. Also if birth control may have something to do with the rejection. You are not using any perhaps she wants no more children?

I put the burden back on her. It is a woman's responsibility to take care of the procreation or not department. She can use pill, barrier and etc. There is no excuse to avoid sex with fear of pregnancy reason.

Then there is the X, the unknown factor. You need buffing, shaving, scenting, teeth repair or some factor that is a turn-off. Men need a shower when they get home. We need to be sweet smelling creatures to get it on with another. Nothing is more of a turnoff than stale tobacco smell or sweat. We all have to use common sense to be attractive and available. Nobody likes potty guts or hair where it shouldn't be. I say this we have to take inventory of our personal habits. I hate men who leave seats up and don't take care for nice haircut and grooming. I have no desire to bed with a goat.

If we all take inventory and yes, ask, is this a problem for you? Maybe we get smarter about what is wrong. My husband has REALLY bad teeth. He is the rejector, but that is a turn off for me. When he gets back I will see he goes for some long needed dental work. He just avoided it and it was costly. So it needs to be done. I have great teeth and spent a lot of money to keep them nice. Sometimes we can find some of the problem with asking.

Don't give up there. Think about what was important to you and at the the beginning. Make time for the two of you. Do a DATE night.
A HUG for you.

mifefish
20th May 2008, 11:57 PM
you know a-ok thats where my quandry exists here.
we want to believe they are ILL thats why they reject us. how else could they not want the physical affection of somebody they are supposed to love more than anyone (save our kids) in the world. if they had cancer or some other terrible disease we would stay beside them through thick and thin never considering being with another person.
we as physical creatures love and receive love mostly through touch and yes sex. i haev been reading of this adn it is real not something we made up so it would be our excuse to have a lot of sex. it is our way and we have no control of it. without it we feel as if part of our soul is missing.
i know in my heart i love this woman who has absolutely changed the man i was. i allowed her into my inner being like i have never done before.
and i know now why and how it happened. she was like me i thought??
she expressed her love albeit probably false in the same way i did.
she would make sure we always touched if we walked past in the house or if i was in the shower she would always jump in and wash my back and if i was there and she was i would do the same. we slept touching somewhere. some of the time after we made love she would fall asleep with my genitals in her hand like a little doll or something.
i know it sounds stupid probably. but i knew in these things i had been given the gift of my ultimate soulmate. and now these memories only make the hurt and sting of her rejection all that much greater.
when i mention it to her in this manner she says quit living in the past. all things change and if you really love me you will be celibate for me.

i cannot , i cannot , i cannot ........................
i feel like i won the lottery bought new cars a new house all the things in the world i always wanted . then they came out and told me sorry it was a mistake. you have to live under a bridge cause your job is gone adn everyone who loves you is mad because all the things you gave them is gone too. and your house is gone adn you will never have another.

does this sound like something i can do without? i think not
i will get the courage soon to end this marriage. my only regret will be i think i will never trust myself again much less someone else.

mike

mifefish
21st May 2008, 12:44 AM
none of the fowl things you just suggested apply here i am very well groomed so to speak. i am an engineer who works in an office with a bunch of women who would tell me if i was having those problems hahahh
i have tried everything to get her to go to the doctor or anywhere we have great insurance. she will not go, she told me verbatum. i am glad i dont have a sex drive anymore. so now where do we go?
i guess i trusted another human with my heart and soul adn she decided it wasnt worth keeping safe i guess oh well
it should be easy in this time of easy divorce just chunk it and run tell her to move the hell out i want my home back
but when i try i end up somewhere else crying like my friend has died again.

i believe more every day she only acted this way to get the hooks in deep and now that she feels somewhat secure its over and out
i want to feel better but i just canrt seem to make it happen i fear part of me has died adn there is no way to resurrect it?

goodbye again and pray for me to have strength.
i am leaving now to meet a woman who has been offering herself to me
everyday, i am going to give myself a chance at feeling again if only for a moment.

thanks again A-OK i truly thank you for your words of understanding
i am quite sure that no person no matter how smart could ever know the sheer agony of a rejection spouse unless you have lived it and you abviopusly have, i am sorry we met like this i would have preffered to met you at the car wash or the grocery store.

mike

1aokgal
21st May 2008, 05:34 AM
Dear Mike...

You have a gentle soul in your engineer mathematical head and it is touching. I am so deeply sad as you are a fine man who is decent and loving. When your mate slams the door in your face it hurts the heart so much and it angers to the core. You say..."Damn you, how dare you treat me as if I don't matter and have no value."

When you are in the world you feel strong and confident and when you come in the door there is a tight feeling between the shoulder blades. Do you stand in front of the birthday or occasion cards to honor your mate with a card and gift for occasions you wish would go away? Do you read the words that lie," To my darling wife (or husband) " when you know this anniversary is something you just get through. The smile gets so thin with me to give him something when I have always loved special occasions because I love to give but cannot find it in my heart to feel good on a special occasion. It is terrible to feel angry (and unhealthy.)

There are no cards I can pick (and this few minutes gives me sadness inside as I stand there) to select something appropriate. Thanks for being a good friend? Friends don't hurt another. It is another moment in the many moments in such a marriage. When he comes in with a card and roses for me and I gush over the flowers..because that is kind...he kisses me on the mouth. A kiss not of passion, but friendly. How I miss the passion of looking into anothers eyes and getting lost there. When did it end , and why? I don't know why.

I really am sorry you go to meet someone you know. I think you will open a can of worms....but I envy you any small touch that is warm and makes the breath come faster. I thought I would be loved and in my husband's way....he does love me. He tells me he admires my qualities and the facets of me. On face value, that is a type of love.
Mike, it is not enough, is it?

Some men will search elsewhere because it is in their nature. It seems this is not your habit but before you go outside the marriage you should resolve it and do all you can to force some conclusion. Either she goes for help or counselling or you draw the line and say...for me this is everything. If you ever cared for me I expect you to want to make this better.

Yes, we should have met at the car wash. It would be nice to talk about things in every subject but not about this problem. We would have enjoyed the time and go home perhaps with new hope and a lighter heart. I wish you a happy day and love. (To our friends here we all understand that we are alone in this world except we can vent here.)
Claudette

mifefish
21st May 2008, 03:57 PM
thats it i know now the kiss!!! i remember the day it started she kissed me like her brother, or friend she hadnt seen in a while. i was very surprised by it. adn she knew it too. i said nothing but it was like a switch had been turned off. we made love a few times after that but each time it was with no passion on her part and i was really trying hard to make her feel. she had always gotten warm all over if i even touched her. when we kissed it was with no reserves or rules. whatever kiss it was to be it was. even if we had been mad at each other. i am an extreme kisser i truly am good at it an di appreciate someone who is also. she was the best (next to me ) we would sometimes kiss for a minute at a time just to have our lips together adn we would always kiss with an open mouth even at walmart. now its the friend kind of kiss or a gesture of your aunt but not too personal.
it is not enough that she gets up every morning and gets my coffee, or she asks me if i need a shirt ironed. that stuff doesnt matter 1 iota to me.

i know what you mean about the cards etc. i am a giver also i love to give gifts and make someone smile. i cant tell you how many times i have sent her flowers at work just to remind her of who is at home when she gets there. she is the absolute envy of all the women she works with. they think we have an absolute perfect marriage.
shw has a husband who obviously loves her.
but the last few times i sent them her birthday and mothers day. i was at a loss as to the words to write???? do i seem like a man who has trouble expressing his love for HIS WIFE???? no i do not. but when the words dont apply to the person you want to write too. they just wont come out. writing is absolutely an affair of the heart it truly is.
if the heart is not involved they are just a bunch of words.
so i signed them MIKE nothing else.
i tried to think of more words which might make her realize the situation is as desperate as it is but i think i have come to the end and i have no more words to give her. the old saying i have used many times about many subjects i believe indeed apply here" if you understand no explanation is necessary if you dont understand no explanation is possible".

mine is a marriage gone like a good friend you counted on for any and all things, has died with no reason but dead all the same with no good explanation for it.

i went to meet my friend last evening we sat and talked. i am not a cheater by nature or by habit. i took those vows for a reason. but the feeling of lonliness and emptiness has become more than i can live with.
it felt good to have the company of a woman who had no rules of engagement on her mind. just friends sitting having a drink because it was a better place to be than home. i did not do anything to violate my vows last night. i did kiss her and she i but only 2 times. it felt so good i almost began to cry. i was so torn with the emotion to ask her to stay adn get a room and you know........... but i went to meet my wife at her nieces softball game. with the normal husbands and wives. i feel like part of a dirty secret little society that cant be talked obout or shown to the light of day. as if we had a sex offender or something in our home.
my friend is married too adn in somewhat the same situation as me but different. they have sex just not much and it is a favor to her when they do adn he expects payment for his services for days after he has performed. they have 3 kids together so she will stay

i dont have any feelings for her in the sense of a girlfriend or anything but she is very attractive adn i am a man. so i dont know????
my wife says she loves me also, but if i dont recognize the language she has spoken it to me, how could i feel loved? i know that i will not do this much longer i will find the strength to change my life yet once again.
i guess it is the nature of the day for those of us who need a mate to feel complete. adn its not a bad thing by the way i have heard some people say that same thing like it is a sin or something I DONT NEED A MAN,/ WOMAN TO FEEL COMPLETE" well i do adn i am not ashamed to admit it.
i like, love, everything about being married when its good or even fair as far as that is concerned.
i guess i will continue to pray for strength adn the courage to send her on her way. she doesnt deserve the life i provide her at this point.
my daughter graduated kindergarten yesterday and their class quote was "you cant have a friend unless you learn to be one" rings completely true even for 48 yr old man in collinsville, ok. i dont have a friend in my wife anymore. she has forgotten how and who i am.

thanks again claudette (i love that name by the way) i love old fashioned names for women. for your perspective and directions. i would have definetly blown a gasket by now if i had no one to lay all of this guilt( yes guilt i feel guilty for what i dont know but i dO) and hurt on. i think we must have known each other in another life mabey.

hope your day is well i can only live a day at a time now. adn sometimes only an hour at a time.

see you later

mike

1aokgal
22nd May 2008, 09:26 AM
Dear Oklahoma boy.......

Hope your day was good and not so pre-occupied with problems but with coming of summer. It still is quite cool here many days and rained the last few. I keep trying to clear the green from the pool and it irritates me that for some reason it has not worked. I took the water to be tested several times last week and dumped in $$ of chemicals and the acidity I guess just burns it up.

I sure cannot yet swim but I love the clear blue water and how pretty that can be out there. That robo washer is getting a lot of the green up from algae killer I added twice last week. That is what happens with the neighbors' tree branch overhanging the fence. While I love the shade from the tree on that side of the pool on blistering hot days, the hazard of pine needles to clear is there.

The weekend promises good weather so that is my task to keep working on it until it glows in the sunlight. Now it looks like the slime monster lives there. This is the first time I found the alga color to be so stubborn to fix. I want to get over to the marina and check out what needs to be done on the boat as here we usually get a real heat wave by June 6. Normally, I have the boat washed/waxed and sitting ready to go on a moments notice by this date. As part of the CG here we would be busy with monitor of the coastal area and especailly military shipping here. I normally have gotten all clean and go out in May on patrols and safety checkups.

I spent almost 7 years as a staff officer in the Coast Guard auxiliary so boat handling is a natural for me. It was with regret I resigned a year and half ago so I could paint and do my costumes. That was the first time in my life I wore my hair short as well. Now I pull it back and force it under the cap when I am on the water or drive in the open car. Just really miss the friends I had during that time. Then there was always a few who would go out on the boat in our spare time and enjoy plesant days on the water. Now I try to fill in the gap for a friend who enjoys and realizes also there is work involvedr an pitches in to help.

Thanks for compliment on the name. I heard it only a few times and my mother ran out of originality on the names on her second marriage and kids. The names all start with a "J." Glad I was not part of that bunch. Cute about your daughter graduated from kindergarten. All those impressive grand moments go fast like a flash.

I have worked too late and need to go to bed. Keep in good spirits. I plan to go see the new Indiana Jones movie tomorrow night. That is the kid in me..just love adventures.

mifefish
22nd May 2008, 05:55 PM
thanks Claudette for the encouraging words yet again.
and the rejection just keeps on coming. i went home last evening in a [articular good mood why i dont know. but i went into my bathroom / closet to change fromn my work clothes. she was in the closet also changing. we had on several occasions made love in that closet on a spur of the moment so it hit me this is it i will try again. posibly the sensual surroundings etc. it might be just the medicine. she smiled at me and covered her breasts (as usual) i tried to kiss her and she kissed me the brother kiss yest again i tried to make it a kiss with passion but she of course turned her head away and tried to leave the closet. i was extremely hurt again of course> but i said nothing. she just left as if nothing bad had happened. i changed and went to the garage to do a little fix on my boat. she walked out adn said to me what do you want for dinner HONEY? how can she call me honey adn say leave me alone in the same breath? i said nothing just silence. so she huffed adn went back in and we had chicken i had prepared the night before in my smoker for a later date while smoking something else.
all kids were there for dinner so we acted like all was well or she did actually i could not. i was silent as i have been till now.
this morning we awoke and she began to talk to me. i said nothing. she got uo took her shower and got ready for work. i didi the same i said nothing. she brought me my coffee i said nothing. she said you are taking this way too personal?????????????? i said nothing.
since gas prices being what they are we have been carpooling to work very tough on my part. i drove her to work and said not a word ro her or about anything. i just dont have any more to say. she got out of my truck when she got to work and said arent you going to say goodbye?
i finally said to her dont take my indifference to personal. then drove away.
when i got to work she had e-mailed me telling to have a good day adn she loved me. i dont believe it for a minute.

how can anyone think this is not personal? i asked on the way home yesterday why we dont kiss anymore? she said when we were dating adn first married that was the first thing she loved about me how i kissed with no abandon????? she said i just dont want to/????

will i ever make her understand? i am dying inside from the hurt adn rejection, i just cant believe it, i allowed her to do this to me.
i will give her the ultimatum tommorrow she seeks help or something??
by next week or i file for divorce. there has to be a better woman out there for me. someone who will be kind and gentle and yes sensual and sexual and need the physical love of the man in her life as i do the woman in mine.

what do you think claudette? will it change anything if she sees the papers?

1aokgal
22nd May 2008, 10:58 PM
Dear Mike....

it seems you had a rejection yesterday after work and before dinner when she wanted to hurry and get the day complete. Sorry, I think the timing was a little off for a woman who just got in from work and needs to feed the kids and clean up after. While men can release and go, women like the relaxing sense that it is not rushed and one can shower and cat nap afterwards. Kids waiting for dinner is an urgent appearance and a mom needs to be on time.

I see a family with a lot of issues with kids and kids and a woman who works does a lot of extras. Am I taking her side because I am female? Perhaps a tiny bit as no one wants to go to the dinner late with a feeling of needing a shower or female cleanse. Perhaps at the end of the day might have been a better choice? I understand this thing of timing but there is also a need for consideration of what else is urgent in that household.

What you miss is the spontinaity when it is two of you and time. You really need a DATE night and not necessarily a SEX night to get to know each other again AND the talk is not about confrontations over the lack of sex. Mike, she is no happier than you and sounds bewildered and worn out. I bet she misses those great kisses of yours and misses that you are not angry with her. Can't you roll back the anger a little and give her a reprieve for a time when the two of you get OUT of the house and go for a walk together or go get and ice cream without kids along. When you do get out for this time, don't shoot for touchdown in the car but enjoy some time and talk about lighter things. I think you both have lost the joy in the humdum of this world we live in.

Guess what? I don't think she is not sad like you are sad. I think one can become so tired of routine, bills, errands to run and kids to listen to they lose some of the girliness. When is the last time she put on some stiletto heels and dangle earings and you went out for dinner, dancing, or just being two of you holding hands. That is the problem. It is a BIG problem because around that space between two people comes moody, sullen, angry and get back at you thoughts.

You don't want a divorce, Mike, you want your lover back..your friend and companion. Visions of divorce papers slapped in the face are the get back at you thoughts of a wounded heart. Do you ever write her a letter and say how much you miss your friend? It might be worth the effort and when you say it as you do here it melts a stone. It is not that she does not love you but you both are victims of this century. How about a NO TV night and you play scrabble or card game or something so the two of you interact without media. Truth is we let TV babysit our kids and it is the big eye to watch others lives when we can't manage our own.

I promise not to give up on YOU and believe in YOU if you won't give up on HER and your family. Oh, you would regret it so much. Who can kiss like she can? Bet not me. She is worth everything and all the effort it takes to find her again. Don't waste effort to go feel sitting with another woman Which you hope would hurt her..if she knew. It would, it really would hurt her.

You must get some time in being pals and there has to be a little time devoted to it. It is like money in the bank and grows interest with investing. Closet hops are wonderful but not good to nourish the soul so you know that love exists still. Don't make her prove it when that would make her feel bad. It is too much like feelings are not involved. You are so angry with her don't hurt her with pure sex when what you both need is some trust again. This is like..I trust you with my heart and you trust me.....let's not hurt each other. Do I sound rational or too sappy?

When you talk don't use the you word as in, "You always do this or that." You say the feeling words," I feel hurt because", " I miss you most when we don't have , etc." Work on communication and don't slam doors. how much is it worth to do this? If you do it 1000 times, try 1001.
You are a very smart man who takes pride in his kisses and love style. Look what she is missing. Don't you think she regrets every day you can't work through these problems? How sad for both of you.

I am going to see Indiana Jones movie. Poor guy will only get about 30 million for my going there but fun escapist movie. I do not make light of your hurt and anger or your need to find what is missing in your life. Please, try and try again. Do pray that God will help you not be angry but to follow her anywhere through the darkness of your separation from her. Will you think of those little children who huddle under the umbrella you see in pictures? The world wants to RIP you apart and she is your only true friend. What is that worth?
EVERYTHING...try harder.
Claudette

mifefish
22nd May 2008, 11:52 PM
no........... its not like the kid thing her kids are 18 and 23 mine are 6 and 16
the 6 yr old was at her moms this week so we had plenty of time to closet hop as you put it.
i have done the me and her only thing i took her on a 3 day weekend of sightseeing nice dinners etc. just to relax. i tried nothing the first evening or afternoon the next day.
i thought perhaps the next eve i would try to at least cuddle in the king size bed
she said you know nothng is going to happen right so dont expect it???
i was devastated she could say this to me.
of course i want my lover and wife back i love her i dont just lust her,
but i think she has gone from this earth.
i have written 5 page letters to her via internet 2 and 3 page hand written letters hand delivered.. i send her flowers at least once a month sometimes more.
she doesnt clean house at least not often i do most of it so she cant be tired all the time?
i have bought her many sexy undergarments when we first were together. she said she loved them. i thought she was unbelievable in them.
i have not seen one in 7 months. i asked her about them the other evening, she said i would never wear something like that again. adn i am going to throw throw them away.

i dont want a divorce you are right but i know i have went as far as i can go with her rejection. she can go back to her lousy little 1 br apartment and live paychek to paychek again if that will make her happy.
cause when we met she seemed very happy and now in my big house with a new car and always spending money she is unhappy.
i do miss her kisses terrible adn she was awesome but what if she doesnt come around Claudette? i am48 yrs old i dont want to look upo and be 50
still hurt and mad all the time.
she made the promise to me when we were first married 'I WILL NEVER ALLOW YOU TO HAVE FEELINGS OF DESIRE FOR ANOTHER BECAUSE I WILL LOVE YOU (SHE MEANT PHYSICALLY) TILL WE ARE TOO OLD TO DO IT.

AND IT STARTED OUT JUST LIKE SHE PROMISED now 14 months later
here i am pouring out my guts and crying everyday on the internet because i have no where else to WHY? my wife wont make love to me. it makes no sense.
i have tried 1000 times adn 2000 times it feels like but i am still lonely and awake at 2 or 3 every morning/ night in bed adb she sleeps soundly.

i truly didnt believe in divorce i came from a broken home adn i swore i would never allow it in my home but now it appears it is here once again

thanks again enjoy your movie claudette.

mike

1aokgal
23rd May 2008, 05:10 AM
Dear Oklahoma boy...

You are far from old at 48 and remember people of 80 today get married. Age is more a state of mind than chronological with most. It sounds as if there is a lot of anger and hurt she is directing your way and that is not a sex issue. That is a relationship problem. So has she got the idea you have been unfaithful during this marriage? I don't know why else there seems to be such nastiness in what has been said.

I see your heart is deeply wounded and you are as dumbfounded as they come why when things should be going really well the bottom has dropped out of your world. She defintely pulled out the stops to get you latched into a pair and successfully sold you a bill of goods.

Hard to believe the desire ffor security and a better roof overhead would have made that difference in behavior. Do you know her history before you? One thing about history most people will stay true to form somewhat. I don't hear any faith issues in your story. Do you belong to a church/share the same religion? It helps many because it gives a baseline of behavior as to what is the norm.

Are her parents still together? Do you have close family as your family? If so have you talked with your mom or brother or someone you trust and gotten some feedback from them? WHo else have you shared this problem with that does not have an agenda...as the female you spent time and talked with about this. I think if you have done all those things then you have done the right things in the right way.

Just my advice, but I would not spend time with another woman for intimacy sake until you have put this marriage in the ashcan or found what lies behind the problems. You will get in over your head and be th ebad guy AND you are too vulnerable to use good sense. Don't jump from one mess into another I'd say.

I would look into pastoral counselling and most churches offer it FREE and you don't neccessarily need to be a member of the flock but a time or two together sure would not hurt. Some women have serious estrogen problems and that is SO simple to repair with intake of estrogen and some warming up on the homefront with a partner who is patient. If she is unwilling to talk, get counselling or confront some ruth here..then I would say don't waste yourself with someone who cares so little.

The world is a big place and there are many in it. YOu are indeed an endangered species ..a good guy who can express himself and knows how to cook. There are women coming out of the rafters looking for you or someone like you. She loses, you win because you do not stay in an emotional vacuum when you have tried it all. Don't do an ending in anger. Do it with intelligent cold and methodical calculation of what is needed to do. Her name comes off all charge and accounts and you post you are NOT responsible for her debts ASAP. Then you split what you must and take your lumps. It has been a short time together and your financial hole is not so great, is it?

Your name on the house, right? All states are NOT community property states and what is yours, remains yours. I would question and find out how good you come out of it by talking to an attorney. Some women cannot be independent and NEED a partner to survive. I don't think you were so easily led that you were pulled in for that purpose!!. Sit down and have the talk and say this is what I expect from you. You get a checkup and see if there lies the problem as this is a HUGE loss for me as I have loved you. The ball is in her court.

Remember this, before you use the word divorce to her make sure you have ALL bases covered financially. You don't want her out with charge cards she maxes because you used the D word, do you?

Go see the Indiana Jones movie. The writeups were wrong. It was fun and pure escapism. Who dosen't love Indie? See, he is 65 and adorable. OK, maybe he had a facelift or eyes done...who cares! He is still a nice looking trim guy.

I hope you at least get some answers as to why your dream girl has turned into the Witch of the West. I hope the spell can be undone. Of course, you are sad nd angry all the time. Who would not be sad because this is about trust. The person you most trusted has been dishonest and does not even say..this is the problem OR I think I feel this or that. A reason is easier to figure a solution.
Your friend here
Claudette

Alice Alice
23rd May 2008, 08:31 AM
1okgal said:
"YOu are indeed an endangered species ..a good guy who can express himself and knows how to cook. There are women coming out of the rafters looking for you or someone like you."

I agree you never know a jealous woman might of said something to your wife to stunt her openness to you.

be very careful Mike women can be very cruel to each other and know how ruin relationships through saying something to your wife, after all you have female friends and a ex wife.

since we are talking about movies go rent Wicker Park

mifefish
23rd May 2008, 06:21 PM
well ok thank you for the words of wisdom adn encouragement i dont feel old yet...but i dont want to look up a few years from now and be like that i guess ia ma saying.
we had an interesting evening to say the least. we went out for dinner with all the kids again. my stepdaughter passed her cna test adn so we took her out to celibrate.
i have been very silent top my wife the last few days because i just didnt have any words left. so i guess it made her do some thinking adn when we get home last night she came to bed in a thin gown for the first time in months???? i was shocked but didnt let on.
she got in bed and actually moved over to me adn put her hands on me???
again i was shocked.?/ i was very pleased but was so shocked i didnt react. she started speaking to me saying she knew we had problems and it was mostly her. uh yes !!! anyway she is having the female time right now so we didnt, but she said we were going to try and begin again soon!!!!!!!! possibly there is a chance but i really dont want to get my hopes up my psychy is pretty damaged right now. until it comes to pass i will reserve judgement.

apparrently she either has woke up to the truth she was about to lose her husband, or perhaps she read a text message on my phone from my friend,
nothing suggestive or anything but a woman text me none the less,
i dont know/ i dont want her to make love to me again out of fear of losing us, but i suppose if it will at least get her restarted??? mabee i should be greatful for this chance at least. i obviously do love her adn want to be with her but only with all of her not just the part that acts like my wife only in public.
has god answered my prayers?
of course the problem i hav enow is one of trust will i ever trust her again?
i have never in my life hurt like the hurt i have experienced.

as far as financial matters i have all of them taken care of. all of my assets are protected. if it were to come to an end she would be back to where she came from financially.
i really hope thats not the deal but if it is it will come out again an di can tell you if this is a momentary reversal of our marriage. if i am not completely convinced of her willingness to at least try fix. or work on our issues at least. and i do not expect her to fallinto the lap of wild lovemaking every night like we did, but i expect her to have at least some of my needs on her radar screen.

this weekend will be a telling tale of the drama that has been mike and donna so staytuned i will have more details come tuesday. as i dont access this site from home only from work.
please dont forget us in your prayers!!!!!
the world does not need another divorce adn lord knows i dont either,
i wonder if she really knows how close it was/ is ??? probably not.
she just called me to tell me i love you its going to be ok?????
i pray i can gain some level of trust again.

i know i dont know you guys on here really/ but i have truly grown to care about you claudette. you have so much helped me with a terrible time in my life. and i know its not over but at this point a little bitty light is better than darkness, so we shall see. some advice from me probably bad but...
have a wonderful weekend do all you can to find happiness and if i were you with you rhusband gone for so long i would not let myself be without the physical touch of another. there is someone who could be there for you. if only in a human physical way. the touch of another human in only the way a man and woman can touch each other is absolutely part of our being when we physical creatures are the way we are.
you will feel better i promise you. our god will understand. this is to cruel a thing for anyone to bear.

love and care

mike

1aokgal
23rd May 2008, 08:27 PM
Dear Mike.....

I am glad to hear some parting of the troubled waters there. As I said, couples can become so bogged down in the "have-tos and gottas" in the tasks we all have to do that there is no time for two. That is how you got into a family unit. It would be such a pity for your family, hers and yours if you cannot work through issues.

Try not to hold grudges on what has happened. Yes, I know your trust has been injured and ego. What does it matter that she is afraid to lose you and now reaches out? Don't question the "why" be assurred it does matter that she is not happy nor are you. Just don't posture in a dominating, expecting way. Sorry to say this from female viewpoint, but when a woman goes inside herself it is hard to go back to feeling confident and sexy.

Perhaps you were too quick to seek another outside the marriage for friendship and understanding when the one you love is probably as unhappy as you. This is from a woman now..not necessarily judgmental but a 13 month marriage needs more input than some months. It needs real soul searching effort to salvage. When it is all done then one has to not live in the past of love unshared but go on. I believe in divorce when all else fails.

Your wife may not know all the reasons behind her own loss of libido. My husband when confronted would put his arm over his eyes lying on the bed and say," I don't know..I don't know." He does not have ED but is emotionally cut off. His desire for sex just did not include a real person but fantasy and MB was a habit for a solitary man gone for long periods of time. Believe me, I went through all the scenarios in my mind. When his married male friend would stop by occasionally I wondered if they had a thing going. How am I to know? It is for sure he would never tell me. I had fantasy in my mind. I wished for one of those programs where they offer a lie detector result. Then I could find out. Why? I don't think he knows why either.

While I never doubt his love for me..he has no desire for sex probably with any woman, I think. I do not think there is a strange thing. I think he meets his own needs. It is 15 years. I have never stopped to love him. I do think my health has been fantastically damaged by the stress of these events. Since I own all here....I fantasied to leave him standing with nothing when I am gone. I think to leave my paid for house to my older daughter because of her closeness to me. Yet, he brings in a fabulous salary and works 55 hours and through his vacations he works and gets double time. It is 90% placed in my account automatically. Surely that is a most unselfish love? I know few other women who have such income or lifesyle by his absence than I. He encouraged my work at home and says don't push it..you have all I can give you. I know of men who keep a wife on a budget and the woman never knows his salary. I make all financial decisions here as I have best background for money making.

My post has taken a sideline, sorry. About your situation we were speaking, I hope the pregnancy issue is taken care of in your bedroom. There needs to be no scare of more children to defer sex at your ages that is a must. It is easier for the man to have it done but for women there are implants cheap and easy and good for some years. Personally, I think a woman should have tubes tied after a few children. Just get rid of the worry of that factor. Yes, I know some have religious prohibitions against birth control. I don't see the church pay for college eds or feeding the kids.

I am glad Donna reached out to you. There are no guarantees in this life that we do not have misunderstanding with a partner. The central issues are that we committed to the relationship and work hard to salvage it. Love is giving of your whole self entirely with nothing to the side. It is holy and deeply blessed for a man a woman to find each other. My husband is a kind man and gentle but he can be darn mean in my defense as with my crazy family. No history here now. Let us say that his was safe and stable family and mine was rejecting, punitive and full of abuse and sadness. The good years together we had were golden and then one day BLIP..it was gone and never do I have a reason. I told him long ago he can hit the road if he can do better. He said,"Are you crazy?" He is fine with life as it stands. I think one day he will regret when he looks back. I do wish him a lot of contrition in future.

I deeply appreciate your kind thoughts and friendship here. Right now I am a little bogged with things I must do. My honey do list is all mine so it is extensive. Still trying to clear the deep green of the pool and need to pursue my lawn guy to get here. My dog, Lucky, was diagnosed with cancer over a year ago and a surgery was not indicated then. It would have been too extensive and not a success. I am amazed she has made it so long and she had a lot of quality time for her and it has gone well.

I now feed her 3 small meals a day as she is losing weight and I feed her 1/2 baby aspirin in a peice of cheese. I f she seems restless I assume she may feel bad so time is taking the toll. She has a growth in her throat and it is large and for sure now in system. I hoped she would make it until my husband returns as she loves him so much. He took her for the industrial walks. My walks are 4/5 blocks and nothing to write home about. When there is no doubt that she is real uncomfortable then I must play God. I love my animals and suffer when I lose one.

In my own health it is apparent a medical condition is precarious at best. l really do a lot of things but have a risk factor that means I won't get the long life the women in my family always had. This made my relationship all the more important to me because when you have that fear you want to reach out to your partner. Just in the last few days more tests confirm the damage. I am so delighted to get to a new released movie I enjoyed as a runaway from reality. Mine is the result of a drug used for weight loss years back that proved toxic to 1/3 of the users. Yes, I got a paltry payout which was not worth a shorter life.

What is real funny is I have been under doctors care and a drug used by me two years. It was recalled in April. Now a class action suit forms. I shall be the first in line. Maybe my destiny was as queen of personal injury litigation! My sense of humor is still intact. Don't at all feel bad for me because I am OK with whatever my God decides for me.

Have a great weekend. My daughter goes to lunch with me tomorrow
amid her busy schedule. I also needed friends and did not discuss this with anyone. As I said, my family is remote and my mother in a dementia ward many hours from here. I may go see her midweek which is a long hard trip in all ways.
Have a great weekend
Claudette

mifefish
23rd May 2008, 10:29 PM
claudette i do not feel sorry for you at all. i feel sorry for your husband really. you know how to feel adn he apparrently does not. that is a fate i would wish on no man.
i guess the crime in this is you are an amazing woman to be able to weather the demons of our mates rejection. especially as long as you have.
i would never make it that far i would definetly give in.
there is no other feeling in the world like the touch of another human
of the opposite gender. we were created by god to crave and cherish this feeling. whoever does not has a malnormity. (is that a word?) it just came to me hahhaah . yes my sense of humor is still in there it shows itseld occasionally, though not as often as i like him to.
i love to laugh and enjoy life. but as you know well it has eluded me as of recent. how could i let it get to me that bad i dont know.
i am so sure you are a gift of life to someone who needs the love adn touch of a woman. i am sure you know how only the touch of the other sex can bring the feelings from inside us. i know these as well.
it is the pure physical creature feelings which our god put inside all of us.
why some either hide it or lose it i dont have the answer for(obviously)
some good man some good physical man is missing the pure physical emotion only a person like us (woman for me) can bring out of someone.
and it has nothing truly to do with just the act of sex. although it is part of it. its the sense of no other person in the world exists when our minds are consumed other that ourself and the person we are physically joined with.
you shouild figure a way to allow yourself to let that woman out again.
i know you want to be faithful that is obvious, you have served your sentence claudette. take care of you please.
you have helped me find some of the old me i was scared to death had died. adn i am sure only someone who was suffering the same pain could have the perspective you have shared with me.
you can stay busy all you want to but it will not make up the void which is
gone from your life. only the physical touch of another.

have an awsome weekend and have as much fun as i am missing:)

i hope i still feel good tuesday? only time will tell.

your friend and student mike

1aokgal
24th May 2008, 09:52 AM
Hi Oklahoma Boy...

The weekend promises to be with nice weather and there are lots of activities going on all over. I have the battle of the green slime yet to conquer and after I get out some more pine needles from the pool I will drop in the right chemicals. It is cold but refreshing as I found from sitting on the steps with feet dangling. I am dying to see it clear and go for a swim. I am surprised the days are still so cool. This is a beach resort area famous for our hot days and outdoor activities.

Part of the weekend will be to direct the boy who does the lawn so that chore is done. Here it is big house and big lawn to keep after. I must get a couple guys to detail the boat and have it ready for outings very soon. I always got someone to come work on it with me but since I resigned from the Coast Guard group find most unwilling to put some labor to upkeep a boat even for money and exchange of some sailing days. My daughter will be coming over on saturday and we will go for lunch as she must work later in the day. No, she is no boater and has never been interested. In some areas of the US there is an organization of women boaters but not in my area. I miss the getting out with company and must find some like minded people. The circumstances around my marriage makes for isolation. My husband is gone for long periods of time and we have that other problem so there are no friends. My friends were in my boating flotilla.

I read about this place where they have dancing on Sunday evening. There is a ballroom free dance lesson and nice group of peple who get together. Sounds like fun so I think I will go. The lessons are salsa or tango, cha cha. I used to be a good dancer. I also went shopping the other day with that in mind.

My husband is in Spain and heads through the Suez canal soon. He sends me an email every few days and that is better communication than years before he was in the military. Then it was 3/4 weeks to get a letter.

When we lived in Europe I visited 5 countries but did not get to Spain. When in Calif. in my 20's I would sometimes go over the border into Mexico to dance. I had a couple friends who had families there. Now when I look back on that I must have been nuts to think a pretty young blonde in an old clunker car would be going alone to such a place. It was lucky I did not end up in a white slavery den. Ahhhh....when we are young we risk all without thinking of those things. When I look back I realize I was a probably operating without a full attic to do such things!

Must get to bed...goodbye to all here. Bambar, you follow the posts here ..hope you are doing OK.
Claudette

jbl22222
25th May 2008, 03:21 PM
Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum but since I've been reading all of your posts, I feel like I know you all and can relate to your situations all too well. However, even though I feel horrible that other people have to live in the same situation I do, it does make me feel a little better to know I'm not alone.

I'm 30 years old and my husband and I will have been married six years this summer. We have been having a lot of issues in our marriage and both of us have things we need to work on...however, I believe that the lack of sex is the underlying issue of all of our problems. When we first got together we had mind blowing sex all the time. When we moved in together it did slow down but it was still pretty frequent. After we got married it was about once a week(maybe) but now if it happens one time a month I consider myself lucky.

I have cried and complained and we have talked about it many times. He saw the dr. and all hormone levels are fine. We are very busy people with demanding jobs and a very busy 4 yr old....but I think that sex is so vital to a healthy marriage that you should find time....he is just always "too tired." When it does happen, it is AMAZING...the best I've ever had. He is affectionate and with tell me he loves me, hug and kiss me and snuggle with me...but no sex. I am so lonely and recently met a man on a business trip and I slept with him. Although it was nice, it has not filled the void that is there.

All of our issues came to head this weekend after I had been away at a business function all week. I am in a great job and when I am there I feel beautiful, smart, successful and important. I have many men that flirt with me and tell me how sexy I am...this is such a nice thing to hear because I don't really get this at home. The funny thing is, my husband tells OTHER people these things about me, but doesn't tell them to my face (weird?). Anyway, we got into an arguement when I got home and he told me that I nag him and I'm crabby all the time (well duh!!)...I told him that I can't deal with the lack of sex and I don't understand the the issue is...he said that it's because I nag him and crab at him that he is not emotionally attracked to me...that's why no sex. Plus, he told me that things are "different" since I had our daughter(that was 4 1/2 yrs ago)...he's just tell me this now? I am so frustrated and sad...hurt and angry. When I bring up the fact that sex is one of the most important parts of a marriage and the glue that holds it all together, he tells me that I'm crazy and that if I think that, I have a problem. DO I HAVE THE PROBLEM??

This makes me sad because I feel like this is such a no-brainer. It's not like I'm asking him to commit murder or do something that is not pleasurable.....What he doesn't get is that if the sex was there, all the little nagging things wouldn't be so bothersome and irritate me so much.

Anyone have any advice?? Sorry for the long post...

Sad in Chicago

jbl22222
25th May 2008, 03:21 PM
Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum but since I've been reading all of your posts, I feel like I know you all and can relate to your situations all too well. However, even though I feel horrible that other people have to live in the same situation I do, it does make me feel a little better to know I'm not alone.

I'm 30 years old and my husband and I will have been married six years this summer. We have been having a lot of issues in our marriage and both of us have things we need to work on...however, I believe that the lack of sex is the underlying issue of all of our problems. When we first got together we had mind blowing sex all the time. When we moved in together it did slow down but it was still pretty frequent. After we got married it was about once a week(maybe) but now if it happens one time a month I consider myself lucky.

I have cried and complained and we have talked about it many times. He saw the dr. and all hormone levels are fine. We are very busy people with demanding jobs and a very busy 4 yr old....but I think that sex is so vital to a healthy marriage that you should find time....he is just always "too tired." When it does happen, it is AMAZING...the best I've ever had. He is affectionate and with tell me he loves me, hug and kiss me and snuggle with me...but no sex. I am so lonely and recently met a man on a business trip and I slept with him. Although it was nice, it has not filled the void that is there.

All of our issues came to head this weekend after I had been away at a business function all week. I am in a great job and when I am there I feel beautiful, smart, successful and important. I have many men that flirt with me and tell me how sexy I am...this is such a nice thing to hear because I don't really get this at home. The funny thing is, my husband tells OTHER people these things about me, but doesn't tell them to my face (weird?). Anyway, we got into an arguement when I got home and he told me that I nag him and I'm crabby all the time (well duh!!)...I told him that I can't deal with the lack of sex and I don't understand the the issue is...he said that it's because I nag him and crab at him that he is not emotionally attracked to me...that's why no sex. Plus, he told me that things are "different" since I had our daughter(that was 4 1/2 yrs ago)...he's just tell me this now? I am so frustrated and sad...hurt and angry. When I bring up the fact that sex is one of the most important parts of a marriage and the glue that holds it all together, he tells me that I'm crazy and that if I think that, I have a problem. DO I HAVE THE PROBLEM??

This makes me sad because I feel like this is such a no-brainer. It's not like I'm asking him to commit murder or do something that is not pleasurable.....What he doesn't get is that if the sex was there, all the little nagging things wouldn't be so bothersome and irritate me so much.

Anyone have any advice?? Sorry for the long post...

Sad in Chicago

Bambar
25th May 2008, 06:27 PM
jb22222

Welcome to the site.

Clearly you both have a problem with your marriage, one which will not be solved in the ways you have tried up to now. Complaining about the lack of sex is not the best way to improve its frequency & presumably you did not tell your husband about your infidelity during your most recent row?

If you are dealing with other issues, might the lack of sex stem from the problems within the relationship rather than being their main cause?

To play Devil's Advocate, maybe the scenario you describe was not very attractive to your husband. Imagine how you would have felt if he had come home from a conference, bristling with confidence & success, then demanded sex from you, making you feel inadequate for failing to reach the standards he set?

It sounds as if it took a savage argument to get him to tell you things were not the same after the birth of your child, but they could hardly be expected to be like that, could they? Some men are unprepared for the physical changes brought on by childbirth, while others find witnessing a birth puts them off sex for ages. Most decent men would feel ashamed of their reaction & find that very hard to discuss.

From the way you describe things, your husband is doing more than his "marital duty" when you make love once a month. Do you let him know how much this means to you in a positive way? He might find that much more emotionally attractive than just hearing you complain when he "fails to perform" for you.

It sounds as if you have both been distracted from what brought you together at the start & need to spend some time & effort in rediscovering what is really important to you as a couple. The pressures of work, children & just the mundane things of life can so easily come to dominate & make us forget the positive side of being a couple.

Sex is only one element in the complexity of a marriage. Certainly, it is one of the crucial elements, but you are not likely to achieve a happy outcome by nagging your husband & seeking satisfaction elsewhere. Accepting that there is real work for you both to do & agreeing to be candid with one another would be a start. That is, if you want a healthy marriage rather than just a healthy sex life.

Take care & good luck.

1aokgal
26th May 2008, 08:37 AM
JBL22222......

Welcome to this site. There is No great advice we can give except that nagging, crabbing and putting pressure on for sex will NOT work. You will drive the desire for sex so underground you may never see it.

He sounds like a nice man who does try to please you when you are together. Shame on you for being so angry/insecure you had sex to prove a point. Bet it made you feel bad and did not at all make you happy. You got even and tried to feel sexy and all because your ego has been hurt. Here is best advice you will ever get.

NEVER>>>EVER>>> tell/confess this interlude to your husband. Women forgive husbands who stray but statisitics support the fact it is never the other way around. Don't unburden yourself to feel better by putting the cross on him to bear. You did it.....you carry it. Hopefully, you took all the precautions in todays nasty world and will have no tangible problem. Advice #2...Don't go for stranger interludes. Dangerous and makes more problems.

Now, let us talk about about having children. When men say things are "different" which is non-specific, this could be what he means. It is true in many cases women pick up weight, stretch marks and another UH, somewhat embarrassing problem for some ..not all is they don't have as good a fit...THERE.

Things stretch and mean old mister gravity can move in there. Most childbirths a few stitches are taken and all is OK, but some not. To the men here. You can tune this out.

This is where we want to be just the best little old fit ever..just like it used to be. Will it go back? Not always. Here is where you learn KEGELS. What is a KEGEL? Kegels are done in any position but the best way to start to learn is to cut on and off your uringe stream. YOu hold it..1,2,3 count and let go and do it again. You stop and start the stream. Then you learn more kegels sitting in the chair to flex and unflex that area. You will even like the fact you can be "fixing" yourself while driving, talking, resting or even sitting in the room with hubby.

You get more comfortable with this you might say,"Honey, I am making your favorite part so snug you will just be amazed." Bet that guy perks right up, if you know what I mean. When you have sex together you can grip and ungrip. Trust me, this works. This exercise will help you turn back the clock. Women over 40, this is a must to assure you are an absolute prize in the bedroom. You will not become loose or incontinent in the senior years.

This muscle exercise your husband WILL appreciate and it will enhance your activity. If you still might feel there could be problem, then you go see your gynecologist and talk about how the problem can be addressed. Sometimes men don't know how to say this and do not want to hurt a lovers feelings.

I once heard two rather raunchy (I thought) men discuss a woman that one had dated. He described her parts in such bad terms because she had this problem OR it could also be he was not up to par, right? I could hardly beleive I heard this discussed as most women don't even talk that intimate! There is cream for stretch marks (tanning salons help), weight loss and just because one has had a baby does not mean we let down in the grooming area as perfume and a youthful look.

Don't flaunt the job and worldliness in the husband's face. Roll back the clock to see in him why you married him. I think sometimes women who have power jobs get full of themselves. I remember years ago when I was in a corporate job, wore beautiful clothes in my plush office and worked with sexy good looking successful men . My husband and I had problems too during that time. My attitude just stunk and I was so full of myself I don't know how he could stand me for awhile.

My husband confronted me several times. Then I did a self mirror look. True, I was not a very nice person to him then. That is because I had power which women lack. Sometimes women don't seem to handle power well when we get it. SO beleive me, don't let this ruin your marriage. Get over yourself.
Good luck.

mifefish
27th May 2008, 08:11 PM
well..........where to begin hahahah had a decent weekend. we still have not had sex..... but i think i may have begun the process to begin again, mabee. we shall see we spent some more time together and i tried really hard to make her realize how much i loved her , but even though i do we have no marriage (to me ) without sex involved. it is the missing link in our marriage i am completely convinced of it now.
Claudette i hope you had a great weekend got the pool finished etc. i know you have said you live by the ocean but i dont think you ever specified a city? just curious. it has rained here in okla so much this spring it has hampered us fisherman immensly. my wife fished with me a lot this weekend adn had a great time. and we have sceduled a golf and fish weekend in june. please pray she finds the physical woman in side herself soon though. i know i dont want to be without her, but i also know i cant be celibate. i will stray soon probably if that part doesnt show soon.
but enough of that. claudette did you tak ea look around for some friendship? i think you should but what do i know obviously.?

i see there is a new poster from chicago? welcome i am sorry you are here.
it gets pretty tough in here sometimes. however it has helped me greatly to know i am not alone in this ugly secret society. adn NO there is not a thing wrong with you. you are the normal one to want your mate to want to be your sexual outlet and the person who you come ot for reassurence you and only you are the one who he cant wait to get his hands on.
to say its "different" since your child is amazing to me? I DONT UNDERSTAND, but i will say this again it applies to our plight more than anything i have ever seen or heard."IF A PERSON UNDERSTANDS NO EXPLANATION IS NECCESSARRY, IF A PERSON DOESNT UNDERSTAND NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE" these people be it man or woman who reject their spouse physically over a lenghth of time amaze me. i never dreamed it could be. being a man i guess i figured most men (unless health issues are involved) wanted sex all the time. i know i do and always have. not that i am a sex addict or something. i am not but when you love someone and if you are a physical person who expresses threir love mostly through physical touch and making love. when you are not allowed to express that it is a spirit killer, as well as an ego destroyer. i know bwlieve me.
i will take the mans side here i guess JB and say no you are not wrong to want your husband and he is in the wrong to withold fromn you.
i cant imagine having a wife who wanted me all the time again. i had that for awhile, but now i suffer the same pain you do. i guess it makes it hurt even more knowing what i am missing. if i had never had it perhaps it would not be as bad? i dont know. but you have a child together and i dont care what anyone says they need their mommy and daddy in the same house together so ask him to get counsel or whatever will rev his engine up again. you deserve to be fulfilled in that way. all married people who are physical creatures like us do make him realize this is not a subject which will be open for negotiotion it will only work all or none. mabee he is not sure he wants to be you rmate???? dont know.
anyway i ramble too much sorry. just my two cents what ever its worth.

thanks again claudette an chin up JB.

1aokgal
28th May 2008, 01:21 AM
Dear Mifefish and all.......

Gee, I thought when people love each other than was the most natual thing that sex is part of the package. There is loving sex, companion sex, fun/play sex and fantasy sex and all of it should be part of the package.

Mike. sorry no sex on the weekend. That is why weekends are a bit of a strain for me. That is when you catch up on chores and then the Lord said a day of rest I always figure that intimacy is part of that too. During the week you find some time to be together. In my life that is all a thing of the past as if I was married to a paraplegic or brain damaged person incapable of performing or even to desire intimacy. Oh, have I suffered the pain of rejection, anger and hurt and no amount of anything made a difference. It has often been like a walk through Dante's Inferno.

My husband is not out there to see another and seems really devoted to me just frozen into a wax man all these years. My feelings run from extreme anger, disgust to the deep mortal wounds to the psyche. He will be back in 2 months and I plan to confront him again. This time he better take the push to get some counselling or we are going to get down and dirty about this. In some ways, I have nothing to lose as I already lost it. Just feel I don't want to spend whatever time I have in my rather poor health now with no intimacy at all.

I am just as serious as I can be that he owes me satisfaction to know where all this came from. I have covered up for him for years except my daughter knows. Her viewpoint of men and relationships are very colored by what she knows here. I see the cynicism in her about my marriage in some things she said to me aand in how she lives her own life. We are real close and that has been my great joy. She is 32 and calls me "mummy" when she talks to me like a three year old would say it. She is strong and successful but guarded in relationships. We all strive to love and be loved and to make a happy well adjusted life. Sad when some of us do the work and have a partner who has no thought to nurture the bond. He is like a man from another planet and cares nothing for sex...at least not with a real person. I pity him. I pity me. I pity those who are here and are lonely and sad.
Goodnight.

Take care all here and make your day a good one. That is the one thing we can do is ignore them and live the best way we can.

Bambar
28th May 2008, 09:11 AM
1AOKgal

Sorry to hear things are getting to you just now. I know it's always difficult when your husband is away. Maybe it's the thought of the joyous celebration you'd like when he comes home & the disappointment you anticipate when he actually arrives.

It's good that you are able to confide in your daughter. I think it is really self-destructive to keep this problem to ourselves as if it is a guilty secret. We have nothing to be ashamed of & should not be burdened by feeling we need to act as if everything is fine when we feel so hurt.

If you do get your husband to see a counsellor, you may get an explanation for his behaviour, even if a solution is not available. The counsellor I saw suggested my husband's "strict French Mistress" desires might be a complete fantasy on his part & merely a cover for some other cause of the problem, but of course, she had only heard the story from my side. Things are too far down the line for us to consider joint counselling as part of a healing process, but I found the counsellor's insights very useful for myself.

From the way you describe your feelings towards your husband & his behaviour towards you, there is scope for things to improve, with a great deal of goodwill & hard work from both of you. I really hope things work out.

Take care.

mifefish
29th May 2008, 05:50 PM
hello all
i have purchased a book by michelle davis titled sex starved marriage
its suposed to have all the things to restart the missing link so to speak.
i will read it when it gets here and apply some of the tips and see if i can get my wife to read it also. i dont think she will but we will see.
a friend of mine called me this morning adn she asked me if things were better? of course they arent only seemingly because i have shut up and am tolerating. i thought we were on the course of restarting our physical love affair but i was wrong of course. she informed me i was assuming she wanted to restart? she doesnt. apparrently.
so if none of the stuff from the book works i will file for divorce.
this life is too short to spend it much longer like i am now. with no children together and only my devotion to the vows i took. i may just have to make a fundamental change in my beliefs based on current knowledge. i need to figure out if i just chose mrs wrong instead of the other.

mike

1aokgal
30th May 2008, 06:03 PM
Dear Mike...

Do give us a rundown on the book the "sex starved Marriage." I think most of us here could contribute many chapters to that one. Some us us as Bambar and myself have been on a sexless diet for many years which was imposed upon us, and not one of choice. Who would think marriage would be the end of a person't sex life?

If I were you, in a marriage where the responses were so clear cut that the partner was indifferent and uncaring, then I would take the option to say,"Now it is enough." Do not invest more time in a loser. Do not let affection blind you to the fact your partner has no intention or desire to change course. Life is too short to be a beggar for begrudged loving gestures.

Knowing what I know today, I would have ended my marriage years ago before time robbed me of the years I could have had with another who wanted to be with me in a normal conjugal relationship. As it is today, these were all lost years. There can never be more than friendly affection in this marriage where passion can't exist. There are days I dislike him intensely for the fraud of being a man. While it is too late to change the dynamics here....it is not too late for you.

I can only rejoice in the fact I have time alone. This is a good time to enjoy my hobbies and home and work on improving myself. Think I will go sign up for some tanning sessions and get a jump on the summer. The weekend promises to be very warm and beautiful. I finally got the pool open and took a crisp swim the other day.

Lynn
30th May 2008, 07:43 PM
It is nice to know I am not the only one going through this. I have been married to my husband for 18 years and I haven't had sex in 3 1/2 years and it is really getting to me. He told me awhile back that he loved me and would always love me but wasn't attracted to me. It hit me so hard that I have been thinking about divorce. I am 36 years old and can not spend the rest of my life like this. He says he cannot get a erection and has ask the doctor for viagra but never got it filled and that was two years ago. Does anyone have any suggestions?

mifefish
30th May 2008, 09:20 PM
this (below) is a letter i am delivering to my wife i want you guys to critique if i am too harsh please tell me or if i need other things tell me please.

Is your physical rejection of me a way to show me you are in control of yourself? Or is it your way of asking me for a divorce? Youíre just not happy and you made a mistake agreeing to be my wife?
Our lack of sexual intimacy in our marriage has taken a much bigger toll on me than I think you know.
If you ever truly cared for me you would want to fix or make this better between us. I know now all of this is beyond my control.
Nothing I can do will ever change your mind concerning me feeling like your husband again.
It is your mind and body if you donít want to be my wife in all ways its ok. just tell me this is going to be it so I can feel a little better about what I must do.
If you cant find a way to be at least a portion of the physical woman I met, fell in love with, and married. Please donít be cruel, tell me. Because the one I go to bed with every night right now is not her.
Please understand I want nothing but all we had in the beginning nothing more or less.
You know I love you, and I believe you love me, it has changed on your part, I donít know why or how but it has.

If I ask you for intimacy tonight please find in yourself the person I knew and let her out to be with me again.
We can have a good rest of our life but it must contain all things including sexual love between us. Its my only way.

mike


i want our marriage to work but i am in a living nightmare now it must change or i cant make it.

1aokgal
30th May 2008, 11:37 PM
Dear Mifefish...

I see that there has been little progress in your marriage to resolve some issues and picked up that there is a lot of drama around the differences the two of you have in sexual attitudes.

As one in a long time marriage, mostly my husband and I have no drama as I long since counted it as a lost cause. We don't get into a tug of war about the issue. It just remains to me to deal with it as best I can. that is when you compromise, sublimate or substitute other interests. His stance remains unchanged all these years .....he fails to achknowledge except once in a blue moon if we ever discuss the taboo subject. He just has no desire for sex. That is, sex with me. He meets his own needs I am sure of that. There is the unwritten code in such a marriage that the rejector sets the tone when he/she withdraws and the other person is supposed to live celibate. We can either accept that or not depending on conscience.

Mike, in your marriage you get real pushy/shovey and get dressed up to go out. You let her know you are going out on the town. I think in one post you stated you were going to have sex.... and too bad it could not be with her. All that is PUFFING, bombast, and means little. It is actually a form of advertising. On your end you feel too miserable to set the actions into real use but you want to see if you can hurt her feelings and make yourself feel better about your desirability to her or to someone else.

I can identify with this tactic a little. I did some of that perhaps 10 years ago. Basically, it is just noise and does not resolve or make the situation better. I think you did blackmail sex with her once about a month ago if I read correct. Actually, that just makes her feel bad towards you that you bully her into doing that which is good for both of you..She was in no mood to have sex with you and you pushed the point. Though she went along I feel sure she was angry with you about the lack of sensitivity on your part. When one is not in the mood it feels bad to be bullied to comply.

I see a chasm of problems opening up for you with these tactics.

I reread and noticed something I missed before. You are husband number #four/4 for this lady. So she has been in three marriages and still cannot get it right? You also mentioned there was abuse involved in them..one or all? Where was your red flag of danger that maybe she was NOT the victim but one who shared blame for marriages that did not work?

I bet your ego got a boost and you came along and quickly "rescued" this damsel in distress. There was that ride off on the white charger. All that drama makes for great short term sex. The problem is you may not share viewpoints on other parts of living as perhaps you did not get to know her. Your needs were pretty simple ..you needed as much sex and intimacy as you could get to make up for a dry spell. Now you are together longer the real problems in her makeup are coming to the forefront. She needed help to survive that bad world out there. On the short term she gave it all she had.

Mike, in my opinion both of you need some work. You have to stop being a bully in the bedroom. You both need to talk to a counselor OR you realize that whatever ended three marriages before you probably had a lot to do with your lady there. I bet she was raised in a nightmare home and has too many skeletons in the past to work out all this easily.

She sounds as if she is really angry with tactics you have used to force compliance. She sees you now as someone she does not feel trust toward. She may have problems she does not even know why she feels so remote and shut in. I have a feeling she was a damaged child and wife who got pushed around a lot. You just opened the door of all of that victimization and stepped inside to think it would all be wonderful.

Your letter expresses your feelings and that is good to vent this out but you cannot bully your way into intimacy. I don't think this marriage is going to woek for you now or in future. She is too damaged and you are too impatient to do the work needed to put her back together. Please use care as this lady sounds really damaged and may be thinking self destructive thoughts. Four marriages and a strike out? Sounds sad and so dysfunctional maybe she decides she cannot cope.

Sorry, I think you bet on the wrong horse.

mifefish
31st May 2008, 12:07 AM
wow!!! i didnt realize i was coming off as a bully? i just thought i was letting her know how important it was.
you are probably right. she is probably the wrong one. but my stubbornness wont let me just give up yet.
she was beat up in her first marriage but the other two were just bad i guess?
yes i did enjoy rescuing her i guess. why i dont know.
why wont she go to counseling?
the book wont work either i guess.
the bad part for me is i do love her. i cant just turn it off. my heart doesnt work that way.
but i cant live celibate with a woman who is supposed to be my wife.
it will surely kill my spirit, it feels damaged already. am i shallow?
i dont know. she always ends her speech of no not tonight with not right now. like somehow it will come back and we will start all over again this torrid sexual life again.
i guess i am just fooling myself again.
i am putting off the inevutable probably.
back to the drawing board. there are so many women to choose from how in the hell are we supposed to figure out what or who is right.
i know she didnt fool me on purpose she loved my touch in every way.
but now she almost seems to get nauseous if i touch her in a asexual way.
the wrong horse hmmmmm probably.

thnak you again for reality check 101

when i was married in 1988 i thought that was it. all done and done.
i will end up divorced again. and back out there in the wild world of sex.
its amazing how many women in my age group are looking for someone decent. i was scared to death thats why i quit and took donna home to love and take care of adn likewise i thought.

mike

1aokgal
31st May 2008, 07:34 AM
Dear Lynn....

your story is so familiar to many of us here. He got the RX and bought the viagara and there it is in the cabinet? Yes, been there on that one. That was as far as my husband went to address the problem as well. It was perhaps 5 years ago and I think the pills are still there. I should just throw them out. They are so old if he ever did take one they would likely grow hair on his tongue.


I pictured several times in my fantasy that I would secretly drop one in his coffee and then he would be walking around with a Willy for maybe 4 hours like they say in the commercial. One could always hang a towel or some other utilitarian function. Anything else has long been forgotten by both or us, don't you think?

The very fact I could think the above proves my personality has taken a nose dive into abnormal imaginings!

1aokgal
31st May 2008, 07:56 AM
Dear Mike......

It was proabably no help to you my pat take on your marriage. I see the fact she may have been responsible for some of that victimization in some abusive marriage.....one or more than one......by what she brings to the table. When one had a violent childhood they have a way of bringing in "trigger behavior" to the relationship that replicates the drama in the childhood.

We all know there are certain "triggers' that can antagonize another to become angry and bring in physical behavior. I think your wife is the duty victim who gets rescued and after awhile she is back in similar dynamics. She withdraws... which causes the man to go berserk and try to force some answers as to why she rejects them. She said to you..... she could barely stand for you to touch her or her to touch you. That is pretty heavy stuff that would make a man crazy angry. I bet the thought occurred to you to knock her through a wall? Women know what strings to pull and how to make a man really mad. I could see some man punching a woman through a wall who would bait them with that kind of remark. Still, no excuse for violence to a woman ..though I have to say some of these darlings are not so innocent but enjoy the drama in life.

Mike, I urge you to go get a plain black daily thoughts book and start to write a paragraph or two at end of the day. I think you would be surprised at how you bully and she antagonizes these confrontations. Funny thing about reading your thoughts a week or two later. You get clarity about the anger and helpless feelings you have been living.

I think she is too damaged to have insight on her actions and for sure probably now feels asif she is reliving other relationships. her behavior pushes a man into angry and sad thoughts and actions. The dynamics of the marriage is probably what she lived as a child in a chaotic household.
I do not think she can manage to hold herself up independently without the income of another. I also think for some reason she struggles with some illness. Is she diabetic by any chance? I think there is an underlying problem and she is overwhelmed.

Personally, I think her great love is her children and she is a better mother than what she experienced in her childhood. I think you would make a very great mistake to free yourself from this marriage and rush out to find another until you figure out why you want to rescue someone instead of finding a life partner? Maybe capable women freak you out and you may be attracted to the high drama, high maintenance female?

I hope you can seek within yourself for some answers. Do not force another to respond to threats and coercion. You might win the battle and lose the war. No one wants to be forced to perform like a trained seal. If the feeling is not genuine, it is no complement.

There are no neat tidy answers to the sad dynamics in these relationships. You think a lot about your need for sex but you will never be happy if there is not soul and heart into the act. It really is repugnant to have mercy sex with someone you care about. Don't go there. It just makes one feel very bad. It is not ego enhancing to get it by pushing and making
ultimatums. Yes, we all know about this and I am sure most of us at some time did the same...not good.
Bye for now
Claudette

Dakereb
1st June 2008, 12:35 PM
Hi everyone! It's been a while since I posted. Sorry to see we've gathered a few more new members to our little club of broken hearts. I'm not the new guy anymore. I wonder how many more read but never post? Anyway, it looks like you all have gotten some good feedback here from Claudette, Bambar,

Mike, as a fellow male sufferer of spouse-imposed celibacy, I feel for you, man. It sounds like your wife has real issues. Only she can sort them out. She knows she is hurting you, and I suspect that makes her feel even worse about herself. All I would know to do in your situation is to let her know you love her, sex or no sex, and that she is accepted either way. Take the pressure off of her. That does not mean you have to stay married to her, but that if it comes to divorce, there would be no hard feelings. Sometimes just knowing that the relationship is about much more than sex is enough to regain the sexual component. Give her breathing room and see if she comes around. But she has to know that no sex is an option. It may end the marriage, but not the friendship. It's kinda difficult to explain it, but it's all about acceptance. You'd be saying; I accept you as you are, even if that means accepting you as just a friend. Hope that makes some sense.

JBL2222 in Chicago, you seem to be a high-achiever! Frankly, I would love that in a spouse. But there are lots of potential problems when two married people have very different self-images. If one has insecurities, those insecurities are magnified when their spouse has tons of self-assurance. Even men who appear very successful to outsiders, even to their spouses, sometimes are insecure. Perhaps he feels he is no match for you? If so, men find expressing this almost impossible. You say his job is very demanding, too. Is his job going well? Does he like it? When he says things are now different since you had you baby, does he mean that now he sees you more as a mother and less as a lover? Or does he mean that now he sees himself as now tied-down as a family man, and he is no longer the more care-free bachelor he once was? Having a child puts a very heavy sense of responsibility on a man, and some guys end up grieving the loss of their youth, as it were. It's a major passage from one phase of life to another, and if it just sort of happened and he had not really emotionally prepared himself for it, it can come as a shock. A guy wakes up one day and says, wow, my life is so different now, so restricting, and now I am so much like my own dad. It takes some real soul-searching for some. Maybe he's just not comfortable with the need to be responsible and mature! Anyway, you have a 4 year-old. Kids need a mom and a dad. Everything you do now that could damage your marriage will also damage you daughter. She is now number one in your life. I have lived in a sexless marriage for YEARS, and I mean NO sex at all, and I would do it all again if I had to, because I was morally obligated to be here for my kids. I don't regret it. I am not saying that is your fate, but just be aware that you must consider what's best for your daughter above all else. I can't blame you really for having sex outside your marriage, but wow, be super careful! I would consider that an absolute last-resort! Your priority should be to mend the marriage while there is hope, not damage it further. I hope you can find a resolution. Communicate with your husband in an uncritical, accepting way. He needs to be able to tell you anything without feeling judged.

Lynn, you have been married for 18 years, and now, 3-1/2 years ago, he tells you he is no longer physically attracted to you? What else has changed? Has your relationship with him changed over the years? This lack of attraction is sometimes a symptom of other issues. What might they be?

My kids are older, and in a few years we will be empty-nesters. I've put up with all this pain and physical rejection, as I've said, for the sake of my kids. My wife, while no longer my lover, is my friend, and is my kids mother. We have talked about this problem many times, and basically she just doesn't want sex, period. Too much water under the bridge to change that. The real prospect of physically separating is approaching. My wife pretty much expects that I will leave. Amazingly, I find myself worrying about it! What will my parents think? What will her parents think? The whole extended family thinks we are a model couple. We go to church together, and our friends from church will be just shocked. And my kids, even after they've moved out, will be hurt. I guess no matter how old the kids are it will hurt them. That REALLY bothers me. My plan was to stay in the marriage until the kids were mature enough to take care of themselves, but I had not really considered the fact that it will hurt them anyway. I just hope they understand that I need to take care of myself.

I can see why some men just take on mistresses! :)

1aokgal
3rd June 2008, 09:31 AM
Dear Dakereb...

You have my sympathy in your story and I too have been in a long term marriage that appears to be happy and successful from an observer. While we do things often together and he still holds my hand and enjoys my activities or hobbies and encourages me....it is all window dressing.

When I go to bed it is on the far side of a desert plain. Life is as sterile as his 15 years of refusal to have sex in this marriage can be. Who would believe a guy at 39 would just decide he did not want to be a husband? He appears to be completely self sufficient to himself. I have loved him in the way that one fans the embers of a fireplace that once warmed the room. I have been kind except for the few years where there were arguments, tears, anger, insults and enough stress to break an elephant in half from me, nothing ever bothered him at all. It was like a barrier had been erected between us. He just weathered it all stoic and sure that he was done and I should be too. It caused me to question myself in every way yet the mirror told me this should not be happening. I would say my self confidence as a woman is about two inches high.

I filed papers, I put personal ads in hopes he would not want to lose me. He left to work overseas and continued to support and write and be with me when he was here as if nothing occurred. Nothing ever did occur. He went a few times to counselling with no interest and made sure his work times outside the country were longer so there would be breaks for both of us. There is a 28 year long marriage now that has not been a marriage all these last years.

Eventually, the stress added up to a significant health problem for me. So there is no option to leave or do more than I do which is to explore my painting, sewing, boating, biking and we exchange emails on his many months away as he works overseas.

Yes, I understand that time passes and one becomes comfortable with pain without a reason. There remains no more options. This comfort/sameness enables the refuser to be in the comfort zone of having denied what is right, normal and God given in a marriage..to give and receive love.
I still love him. I just do not like him anymore. Is that reasonable to you?

1aokgal
3rd June 2008, 07:52 PM
Dear Moth x,

I could not bring myself to respond to your very sad letter for several days. Welcome to a place where you are understood and can vent. We are here because your problem is our problem.

I could be you only years ago. This is the dynamics of this kind of marriage. None of us can solve the puzzle about these men and in some cases, women. You had an inkling prior to the marriage. I have to tell you many of us did as well but love concquers and for awhile perhaps it did. Then one day it is a battleground and you never win.

It is pretty simple as I see it. This is your problem and not his. He has disowned rsponsibility for the status quo. How you live or how you feel no longer bothers him and sexless is fine. That makes YOU the problem. How much will you argue, nag, whine and try to get him to go for meds, counselling or help before you realize it is not going to change?

That is where it is different for all of us and many will end such a marriage and some will stay or still hope something will change. I will stay with my husband because I owe him everything I can do for him. He is a good man...just broken. We cannot make a decision for another. Here is what you need to do for you.

Work on your personal issues. If this rejection has caused you to gain weight, lessen your appearance, or do something else not healthy for you...do change that. Get some counselling somewhere for how you deal with this. If you have someone you care about you can confide...do it. If you have a strong faith that does help. Sad to say, but we protect these men by not telling the secret with which we live. Others say," Aren't they a nice couple?"

All that window dressing means we are behind a sad wall and deal with this problem mostly alone. The one who said he would always love you...probably does love you. Just not in the biblical sense to know his wife. If you can work it out...don't waste your life waiting for what may never happen. Whether he is gay, has other women or just is a broken person does not matter. It is his problem. Fix your life as best you can to be happy.

You are probably a really sweet and pretty woman and none of this is about you or that you failed in some way. It is about him. Count your blessings and see the positives in your life. If you decide you don't want to sepnd your life in a sexless marriage than work toward a better future. There is no magic formula. Sorry. We all hoped there might be one.
Many of us love the man we married. Try not to blame him too much as most men don't understand what is wrong either.

You get really close to your family and do things you enjoy to do.
Good luck.

mifefish
3rd June 2008, 10:58 PM
thanks Dake AND CLAUDETTE

man you really hit me between the eyes brother. its true i have done nothing but try and try with no results. except me feeling like some kind of freak or failure. adn blaming her for being mean to me basically. she isnt
she is lost too. but she wont try to find her way out. oh well.
if i decide to divorce her i would hate to see her in walmart and she throw a can of beans at me.
i promised to take care of her for life and that is hard for me to not think like that. but i guess i need to decide to take care of m ylife again first.
i am a provider, thats what i do. i am good at it and i love doing it.
however taking care of me .........not so good. its been 6 months of a 14 month marriage sexless. can she turn back to my wife? or as a good friend of mine says she played the role as long as she could. this is her she wont change.

give me some advice please

mike?

1aokgal
4th June 2008, 01:50 AM
Dear Mike....

On the scale of things no one but you can measure your pain or feel your disappointment. The fact is you have invested 14 months into the marriage. There is no clarity to understand why your wife has withdrawn from you.

You need a third party to negotiate some communication between you here. You are into ultimatums and confrontation with a few of the dress-up and go out scenes. Someone who has shut down emotionally may just see that as war declared and go deeper into themselves. If you don't go to a marriage counselor see if you can sign up for marriage enrichment perhaps through a church which brings out the faith and understanding about the sacrament of marriage.

If she just refuses to open up about this and see where lies the problem then I see it as a bank where you put your funds for a short time. You must then get out of this and invest that emotional energy elsewhere. I think that marriage is of very short duration and the investment is such you may not even know who that person really is that you married. Maybe you did the rescue and she still has feelings for another she never got over?

You are still a young and vital man and you will love again. Don't play games on Friday night to hurt her or get even. Do not be a player who has the ladies on a text basis or play footsies under a table. That is just nasty. If you want to be single..get single... but don't play at life.
You are a better man than that. If you ever cared for her at all she deserves respect until you legally separate.

Maybe you jumped too soon from your marriage and she looks hot and available and that was the hook? See if you can get some straight answers. Don't bully or dominate. Sit and listen after you tell her how much you care about her. You are owed some answers. This is not about sex but what is behind the withdrawal of affection.It is bad for you to feel so upset and angry all the time. It does not help you concentrate at work or live life and dangerous for your safety if your mind is elsewhere. You must get some peace in how this is going. I know ...it makes you crazy. Most of us here have felt really agitated and upset on some days. That is so stressful for your health. You still owe her to listen and not argue and see if things can be changed. Keep calm and see if you can have any discussion about the subject. Please believe me when I say from experience, I could go ballistic at times if I did not plan how to approach and keep very calm. I think you need help to get into that area. Don't give up until you can say you really gave it some work.

I wish you every thing to find your friend again.
Claudette

mifefish
4th June 2008, 06:43 PM
claudette

the part that drives me the craziest she will not seek any counsel or medical treatment i have offered to set it up go with her be her friend whatever anything, she says its menopause and if i relly love her i will wait for a change>???????????
i point blank asked her last night do you really expect to wake up one morning ,and i will look awsome to her again and she wont be able to stand me not touching her? and she would be the woman i knew when we married?
she had no response.
i got up this morning adn walked into the shower with her. we used to do this all the time. when i got in she was imediately very uncomfy.
and when i touched her on her back (i was going to wash her back)
it felt like her skin almast crawled?????
i am tired of trying. so /..............i guess its done.
i have not fooled around adn i guess i wont. i just dont feel right
you know if i am having these kind of feelings seriously about cheating on my marriage, there is something so wrong with this!!!!

i have never had these thoughts before.
there is a lot of things to think about and speculate why and how come etc.
bottom line can i do this long term? NOPE !!!!!!!!!! NOT GOING TOO.
so i will see if i can get her to move out. she will put up a terrible fight i am sure.

thank sfor all your support and ideas again claudette.

mike

Dakereb
4th June 2008, 08:37 PM
Mike,

Following her into the shower is too pushy. Just let her be whoever she decides to be. She cannot conform to what you want, it must be what she wants. If she decides to be someone you want to be with, then be with her. If she decides to be someone you do not want to be with, then do not be with her. But, if you do not back off, she will never be able to determine for herself if she is doing things for YOU or for herself. She sounds like a very mixed-up person right now, and your imposing yourself on her likely makes it worse. I speak from years of experience and lessons learned from mistakes.

Sorry, it's not your fault, but it is yours to deal with.

Bear~
4th June 2008, 09:07 PM
Mike; it's very confusing to a man...this may help*



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_dysphoric_disorder

UnregistereBear~
4th June 2008, 09:15 PM
These same symptoms can come on during early menopause...it did for me*

1aokgal
4th June 2008, 11:57 PM
Mike...

I agree ..the getting in the shower was too pushy in view of the dynamics going on in the relationship. The only ultimatum I would make is that she go with you to counselling or be willing to work toward answers.

Is it possible this woman was sexually attacked during some point? The article sent by Bear is interesting and a person could suffer terrible mood swings and emotional problems. We also know that Alzheimers can strike a younger person and cause real personality changes.

Like you, I would be fed up with being kept on the other side of the wall. Has Donna had a history of depression? I wonder that you never said,"HM--mmm-mm, this woman has had 3 previous husbands and hard to think that was all the fault was on someone else. Do you have any relationship with her family? Did you ever hear of background info from her mother, for instance?

I would say this could be depression but she was real clear when she told you #1. that she could not stand you touch her or #2. She can't stand to touch you.

Is that a kick in the crotch or what? Now, if your love style is creepy AND she has valid fact there.... I would still say for everyone is someone else. If you cannot find your match for WHATEVER reason and you have made every honest effort to be a good man and all has failed. She refuses to go to counselling or see a family doctor and talk privately...then you did it all. If I heard those two statements that would do it for me. We all have the straw that breaks the camels back...and that would do it for most. Maybe you are just a free lunch at this point?

Hey, if that would be said to me I would call an attorney the next day and say.....Ok, how will a divorce effect property and goods?
You were told how she feels. You were NOT told WHY she feels this way. Maybe you never get that.

Mike, before you hang your guts out anymore.... get it straight. This is a losing deal there. If you had a 20 year marriage then you have a big investment. Your investment here in this woman is some months AND she is not who she said she was. You bought the package without close scrutiny?

I would call it a day. I would give her the news after taking steps to get her name off all accounts and that for you it is done. Sorry, that is what I would do in your place. Let us talk about investment. What do you put into the marriage and what do you have by return?

In my marriage, I have a 28 year long investment and we have gone through better and worse. I don't think I would rather have great sex and a guy who kills a fifth of whiskey a day. I know that while we have problems he makes efforts to see our marriage survives for the long term.

What is your investment return? Donna could not make a marriage with three other men. Why? I don't think you know who you married. Is that your fault? Perhaps a little that you wanted so much to love someone. If she refuses to sit down with another I doubt you can get any facts of what is going on with her. Maybe you are the biggest patsy of all time and she needed a husband? Hope you don't mind my direct talk here. I know you seek feedback.

Whatever. Only ONE of you is willing to work on the marriage. That won't cut it.
Don't get ugly...get out of that hell.

mifefish
5th June 2008, 09:58 PM
well........... her mother is a nut her dad divorced her 35 yrs ago.
i love her dad he seems very normal.
so family history no nit much.
she never tells me why all this is like it is jus that she doesnt want to.RIGHT NOW.?
so when i ask. just not now. is the answer.
nope no creepy love style just a lot of kissing ,loving hugging, adn anything my lover wants me to do, that doesnt hurt. so........

she just will not go to a doctor. nothing i say makes any difference.
so i guess we wont ever know if it is something physical. which i dont think it is i think its between her ears where the problem lies.
but i dont have the key to see in.

i guess its my dilemma to figure out claudette do i stay or do i throw her out. and her daughter.
nope not offended by tough talk thanks for your insight.

wish we lived close we could have lunch.

mike

1aokgal
6th June 2008, 11:24 AM
Dear Mike...

Or you could meet me at the marina and work half day on the boat to get it clean/waxed. I got several teens I paid last year or a friend and I supplied the lunch and some bucks. My friend of some years left the area and no one else I know seem interested or hardy enough to come along. Since you are a boat guy you are functional, right? Tomorrow I go early and do some work. I may decide to get it pro detailed since it has not been done for several years.

This is the big Harborfest weekend here where the foreign tall ships are here the weekend and several million people come to see all the events on our harbor. when I was in the CG auxiliary my boat with CG crew patrolled the harbor and micro-managed the boat traffic. I lost my network of friends when I resigned and have found no one since. Yes, I have gone out a few times just the dog and I but that is better/safer with a crew person to throw lines and such when needed. Not a lot of fun to go alone. Sad, but my daughter never cared for the boat or outdoor activities.

I am so sorry that things hang in Limbo for you. You need to wake up one morning and say.." This is a day the Lord has made and I know I have done all I can to be a good man. This woman has no interest to work with me to make a decent life." She has already told you in so many words.."You just chew on it because I will do nothing." The "If you love me you would wait" is ridiculous and unworthy of anyone over 12. That means you have ZILCH, ZERO.

If you want a life you self manipulate and go feel guilty when you prowl and check over other women. She will not meet any of her duty to you. There is no affection and pretty harsh speech..as the she can't stand you, etc. That makes the hair stand up on back of my neck! To be told that someone finds you LOATHESOME. EEEGADS. If she put across 6X a day after that speech and I were in your shoes she would give me the creeps to think about having any contact.

When is it enough, Mike?
Listen, you get counselling set up...for YOU. You go talk to somebody about the events. I pretty much think you are screwed to get her out. I don't know whether you said you rented or own and if yours is a community property state or if her name is on the deed. My state is NOT community property state. Usually with such a short term marriage if the property was yours prior it remains so, as it was not accumulated in the marriage. Here is where you find out.

Whatever you had is GONE. the magic, the trust, the feeling you could depend on her is gone. Whatever happened between you both sounds as if it is irrevocable.

In some cases, a man could raise his hand in anger and then it is all over for most women. If her mother was Bi-polar than she may be so and since she refuses to do anything you asked you are left to wonder. Do not sit in the night and pound a keyboard in hurt and anger. Get it over and move on to a healthier relationship.
Cut your losses.

Search inside yourself and you will find the right answer. She may get the academy award for selling you the Brooklyn bridge as it sounds like you got a lot of hype and nothing now.
Good luck.

1aokgal
11th June 2008, 04:03 AM
Dear Mike...

Believe me, when I say this..she does not give a damn how you squiggle around and chew on the aloneness of a celibate marriage.You can read books until the cow comes home. If it is for YOU and helps you one iota bear the indignity of a
celibate marriage, do it.

My husband can give me a pursed lip cherubic peck and roll off to sleep in a blink. I get up and watch TV, sew, work on the PC until exhausted and then go to bed slightly before his alarm rings. I suffer from constant lack of sleep which catches up with me hours later. Being a nocturnal person is alright since I work from home. Gone now, he writes me fresh words of his admiration for my character and tells me he is eternally in love.

I guess one can wax poetic when I, the object of his adoration, can hardly remember the sex act..let alone...with him. There has been times when I thought some friend of his dropped by too often or seemed too friendly and thought he is a closet homosexual. I know he is pathological about that subject and hates the idea of dirt, germs. It is unlikely and he just turned the corner at 39 and said....it is over.

There were times I utterly debased myself to beg, plead, cry, shout, call names, slammed doors and became so hysterical a few times I could have gutted him. I threw him out of the bedroom years ago and he was in another room for two years. Finally, when I became ill he came back into the bed as stress did take it toll. Now I live with a serious health threat. He admonishes me all the time..be careful, don't do too much, etc. He is so generous to me in every way. He cooks for me, he waits on me, he sees my little whims are satisfied.

I won't say I am healed of the destruction this has wreaked upon me as a woman or human being. There is no waking day I do not think within a short period of time that I lost the ability to love and be loved. I have NO doubt he loves me. Why should he not as I have unique talents and abilities and those who admire them.
It does not change that it is a frozen celibate life and not of my choosing.


If there can be a person rolling around on a spit this is it. A reason would help. "I find you a vulgar ignorant slut. " Oh, now I got it....See ya! I would be over it in a flash and taken on one or more of men who would have loved to console me. Beleive me, I had great opportunity through the years. I won't give a run down here. Let us say I found I was now broken and could not go on in another direction.

My affection and respect for him is still intact though I can curl my lip to say that to me the mark of a man is good physical prowess and some expertise. It amazes me that he does not look at a mirror reflection and know he is terribly wrong here. He also tells me daily how much he loves me. Go figure?

There has been times he came out of the shower without his towel . Perhaps he is surprised when I just turn away. I said "kindly have the decency to cover." Does he think to play with my mind or does he think It is still of interest? That would have to follow some full consults for me because I have now got some real low self esteem. Guess why?

So, Mike, I just work on my personal issues to make me in better shape and do things I like to do. He is months away from home on the job. No women there on the ocean. Again, is he gay? If so, he would never be honest. Wish I had a lie detector test set for him. Sometimes I wish I could hurt him as much as he has hurt me. He really thinks he is a good husband.

It is always the lack of emotion they have, the disinterest to the hurt caused and the head in fog which I detest. Your wife refuses to do anything and you have no long term investment. I say go..get out. it will never get better and you have been had.
Well......we wish you had been had, right?
Try to squash the caring for someone you said. Hmm-mmm
I wonder if we are not just self indulgent masochists who love to have our guts in a knot?
Claudette

mifefish
11th June 2008, 09:40 PM
claudette thats it uncaring head in a fog. its all about them, we dont matter.ITS JUST SEX?????
I pulled the plug on her last night i told her i wanted her to find a place to move it is over. she freaked adn has been sending me crazy e-mail all day.
how can she possibly be surprised?
when i was 20 adn had multiple girlfriends ok it was just sex. "i know the difference"
she does not obviously.she said if we were to have sex it would damage her mental well being. so i asked is mine worth anything???? her reply

I DO VALUE YOUR MENTAL WELL BEING.

AND, I KNOW THAT YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE GOING CRAZY, AND I KNOW THAT YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE.

BUT I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING CRAZY. YOU ARE GOING THRU WITHDRAWLS FROM SEX.

YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO GET A HANDLE ON IT. I KNOW YOU ARE TIRED OF HEARING THAT, BUT THAT IS THE ONLY
THING I CAN TELL YOU.

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TELL YOUR MIND TO SLOW DOWN, RELAX, IT WILL BE OK. AND YOU NEED TO TRY AND DO OTHER THINGS TO TAKE YOUR MIND OFF OF IT. I KNOW THIS WILL NEVER MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU, BUT YOU ASKED. AND I TOLD

is this the craziest thing you uever heard?

mike
sorry for the font i cut and paste adn dont know how to fix it

1aokgal
11th June 2008, 10:43 PM
Mike...

That woman is a FRUITCAKE! I am AMAZED that you ever had a relationship with her! She sure sold you a bill of goods and this must be her her real agenda. Do you know there are countless women would trade their eye teeth to find so good a man AND his engine runs!

Believe me, you are a national treasure. You can express yourself well and hold a job and actually you have fine character with real feeling. Now do not become a cynical ass who makes the next woman pay for your hard lessons with this babe. It will take awhile for you to get your confidence back in working order.

I BET THIS IS NOT OVER! She is not going to go gentle into the night. She must have put a lot of thought/effort to rope you into the pasture and for sure does not want to see her way of life decline. Likely, there will be the famous dying scenes as in top notch operas of her remorse. Do not buy it. You have seen that she is cold, calculating and does not give a SNOT.

I read the enclosed and she is trying to psycho babble YOU that this is normal behavior. That is so sad this has happened but I think she was a CON artist all the way. You don't love somebody with all your heart and then the next year slam the door and tell them THEY are the one with the problem. What hurts worse..to think she is a schemer who set a trap and never meant a word? Or to imagine she has has had a lobotomy and is not the same person..as a clone or body double? Either is so terribly painful. This is not your fault.

I am so sorry that your love has turned into a soap opera. Try to get through to the other side. I would never waste anymore of feeling/time for that person. Dear, there are many fine attractive and decent women who wish to find one just like you. You do not need to spend your life ripped apart or roll over and feel you must be a loathesome thing else why would your beloved have turned away.

Shame on her for the deception. I would get her out so fast her head would spin. Regret? Yes, you will have that but when one makes a promise it is to mold your life to the other. She is too weird for words. Watch she does not strip your house or give you pay backs for ending the charade. No, if she suggests NOW she goes to counselling I would not buy into it. Do you know she had already bad history and you overlooked it all.

I percieved some history with my husband as an X girlfriend who confronted him about no sex. DUUUH! Why did I not see the red flags?
I thought It was her...she was the problem. I never perceived that this was a pattern.

Life is very hard and you may need some work to let loose here. I admire that you can love so faithfully. It is a sign of great character to love so deeply another. That makes you a finer person. I hope you will take the risk to love again.
PS Do not go pick up with loose women..give it some time, OK?

A hug for Mike
Claudette

mifefish
11th June 2008, 11:24 PM
thank you so much claudette for all you are and have been to me, my self esteem is at an all time low right now,but i do have hope for better days i am truly guilty of being a complete romantic when i love i love completely with no rules or regulations, the same way i kiss. with abandon .i do feel better today even through the onslaught of e-mail from her denouncing my character adn the obvious lack of love i ever had for her.?
i think she has deep rooted problems which i would gladly help her through if she had let me. she would not. it is a done deal i completely expect her to try and have sex with me tonight, i will politely refuse. sex out of guilt or from fear of losing your easier way of life is nothing i want any of.
i want the whole enchilada or i will re enter the world of dating adn there is plenty of just sex out there if that appeals to a person. i grew very tired of it very quickly when i was single, that is part of why i ended up with donna. she was so great adn we seemed the perfect pair, like god himself had put us together, exactly the opposite. satan is alive and well i believe. i will immerse myself in my work nad my kids there is a pretty girl here at work who has her cap set for me in some manner i think. i will probably in a few months see if her intentions are for real or just tease. either will be ok.
enough of that,
when i decided to look for a mate i put down a list of qualitys and swore to adhere to them. i did and it got me into the trouble i am in now. i believe my only list from here on will be time, and background checks.
i suck at being alone. not the housecleaning or cooking as i do most of it anyway, donna is a pig. i found out later.
its the closeness of another human i cant live without.

thank you so so much for the words of encouragment
adn the advice i know i am doin the right thing 6 months of a 15 month marriage is a long time with no intimacy from your wife.
i wrote to a friend this morning i felt a little guilty asking her to leave
with no place to go adn he said apparently you havent been without long enough if you had there would be no guilt. his wife left him wanting for 10 years after the first 3 he always had a lover on the side he divorced her this year.. i will not bear that shame in the interest of marriage vows, i am ending it.

what a terrible awful shame you and i live so far apart.
who knows what could have been.

on another issue all your boat talk got me to thinking ocean again adn i planned a fishing trip to galveston the end of this month for my son and i
look out red snapper here we come.

goodbye for now claudette

your friend mike

Dakereb
12th June 2008, 04:40 AM
Galveston, eh? I live in the Houston area. If you want to get away, take a trip to South Padre Island. Awesome beach.

Mike, I gotta say, it sounds like you've done the right thing. I wish I could have gotten out of my marriage when the sex-drought started, but we already had two kids. I stuck with it so that I could be there for the kids, and I don't regret that, but wow, do I miss intimacy. And how!

For us, we fought for a while, but then we settled into a sustainable pattern. Kind of like roommates. During the most stressful times we did have fights, but we never got physically violent. My situation is different from yours in that my wife's loss of sex-drive was precipitated in part by a loss of respect for me. I did not do anything to deserve the loss of respect, but there was something about my mannerisms that resonated with something about her past, and she read all kinds of negative, hostile meanings into the simplest things. I got to where I was afraid to say ANYTHING. I walked on eggshells, and even then, she'd go off on me without warning. One day I just absolutely lost it, shouting out to her that "I AM NOT EVIL" over and over again until she finally woke the hell up to what she'd been doing to me for years. She is so very much nicer to me now, accommodating in many ways, except the obvious way. To her, it's too late, too much water under the bridge, too many negative feelings from our past. Friends we are, and friends is all we will ever be.

So, that's my advice to you; after the emotions calm and you two can actually talk to one another without it becoming a fight, you may end up as simply friends. Once she knows that you expect nothing whatsoever from her, she will change her attitude towards you. That is what I meant in previous posts when I'd say just give her space to be who she is, and you can decide what you want to do from there. If she shows herself to still be egocentric, then you know that is how she is, and you can just choose to not be with her. No drama, at least in your own head, no stress. Just decide what you need to do, and do it. And so you have. Her reaction is her problem.

I am really feeling alone lately. It comes and goes, and lately, it's been a bit rough. Work is not rewarding for me anymore, and my kids are largely self-sufficient, so I am not needed, except for the money I bring home. One day, I am going to have to do something about it. I have a female friend that I have considered opening up to, but I really value her friendship and don't want to wreck it with this. I've directed our conversations towards this type of issue before, and she politely directs it back to safer territory, so I take the hint and keep it non-controversial. She's married, and I don't think she's too happy in her marriage, but she has a 2 year old and my guess is that she wants to keep it together. I respect that. I guess talking to her is not really an option. I don't want to do something that might wreck someone else's life. But, man, I could use a good female ear! I don't really have any guy friends to discuss this with because they all know me AND my wife, and I don't want to put that out there and mess up the friendships. You all know exactly what I mean.

I want a female to talk to because I think I need some validation. I need to hear from a woman that I am a good, decent, desirable man. I think many women have no idea that men need that sort of emotional support. Men and women are taught to think men are emotionally self-sufficient and tough. Well, I am here to tell you, we aren't.

I've rambled on enough, thanks for reading this.

1aokgal
12th June 2008, 07:05 AM
Dear Friend Mike...

Thanks so much for your post. It is easy to be kind to you when I see how sad it is to be walking in your shoes. That aloneness inside can be such a burden. There are times when I recognize in myself I talk to someone in a grocery line and mention of the weather and then the personal..Well, I plan to do this or that today... Wonder if they think I am nuts?

It is a society where we move among many and are close to nobody, isn't it? That is why you were so needy you dove in Bucky Beaver with a woman who already had a history of failed relationships. What were you thinking? You say you hate being alone but dear Mike, I urge you to spend some time getting to know yourself. Do not jump in foolhardy next time and not examine why you ask not much and got so little.

I guess you already noted the woman was a slob in her housekeeping, right? You said this bothers you. Then there were other red flags you sailed right past. You cannot do this again. Do take a fishing trip with the guys and get away from women a bit so you are not so needy. You could have a sign on your forehead that says you will jump in with no questions asked. There are some predatory females out there. Now I have given you that talk...I am glad you feel better.

Hey, if she throws some sex into the pot...enjoy..then walk away. Let HER ego hang out!

I go out tomorrow and look at the boat. They did the small fiberglass repair and replaced a chrome part on the rail. The waves threw me against a pier post last season. There was a small spiderweb crack in the surface glass. I had it detailed so it should sparkle. This one is an $850 deal. Boats are like a hole in the water they say. Then I need to buy a new cover and get new snaps put on the boat area. The boat is now 7 years old. I negotiated a good deal on the work. It was pretty pricey, even so.

A talent to bargain is part of the men/women thing. It is about sales and what one perceives about the other person. Few really show the real person up front that is window dressing. Your wife seems a master of the quick catch. The trick is to see this as a longer process where you like the person before you love them. Sometimes we want to be in love so badly we compel ourselves to overlook a lot.

I hope you belong to a gym. Go workout and make great ABS and better mental health. I have the pool but plan to go to the tanning booth this month. I don't do baking outside.This is good meditation stuff and better for the confidence. I know you will be alright. Be prepared for a COMMANDO raid on your mind. She will tell you how wrong you are and how you are making a big mistake. Don't buy that one!

Just a personal question, Mike. When we talk about sex.... you were not a 3X a day man, are you? We mean normal regular relations not marathon stuff, right? Marathon is good but a tough on the long term. Long term averages are when the spirit moves BOTH. Problem is that ZILCH< NOTHING< ZERO. THAT is not normal.

Hope you keep yourself busy and avoid getting into heated discussion at this date. If it is too much leave and get away for a few hours. Don't get baited to make war.
Bye for now
A hug to Mike
Claudette

1aokgal
12th June 2008, 07:41 AM
Dear Dakereb......

Are those women in Texas on some kind of drug they have no interest in sex? You sound like a real gentleman and a responsible good man. Pity your marriage has no fire and the days of your life pass one into the other. Maybe marriages should be renewable every 5 years like car registration?

When you stay for so long here is what I think...you take on the characteristics of the low sex partner and you find that your own battery goes into deep sleep mode. Sex has ONE truth..if you do not use it, you lose it. Relations can be so strained between partners where the sex is a too seldom an act until there is no spontaneity and no "fun" sex like water fights and such. The fun becomes a thing of the past. When sex is always a formal act it is a burden and people put it off. They have a work week and the whole production gets a bit much.

I firmly believe television has murdered libido for all concerned. Listen, one can spend hours in vicarious living and put off our own lives while we escape into fantasy. Maybe a good idea would be a NO TV night and you play scrabble, cards, monopoly..anything to talk and a bubble bath at the end of the evening for two. You owe yourself a triple banger with this woman! I guarantee these plans work.


Well....I used to anyway.... until my mate went into a many years deep freeze. Only a hand grenade would work to wake him at this point. He also is many months gone. I have come to like that very much. Life at it's finest to have ones' own space and listen to no one who snores and does not know you exist. Yes, I love this part.

Dakereb, You have the familiar contact with a woman you like but no intimacy. That is two people inside the wall. Did you know that sexual organs unused. atrophy? That is the sraight truth. Women can set themselves up for old age maladies as incontinence and bladder problems and men have more prostrate problems. Sex is also GOOD for the heart. Are you aware that BOTH of you are setting yourselves up for a shorter life because you won't make room for sex?

Now you really need to take time to discuss this subject because the longer it is neglected the less chance you will ever see a change. This is about good health. YOu also should BOTH have bicycles or join a gym together. That is two time past time and NOT TV absorbed.
If you allow the time to pass without making changes you will live in fantasy and never get it together again.

You mentioned a female friend..is a friend..married..and she does not welcome your inner thoughts. Do not read the friendship as an invite ..you are an ear to hear and she is troubled. You would be a bad guy to invade a friends' space in this case. You will also open a Pandora's box which may cost you half of all you have ifit is a community property state. Don't go there.

It is obvious you are in need, Dakereb, and the wife can put herself together pretty good as you still seem very loyal to her in spite of the drought there, right? Seek her out again. you need to set a 1X weekly DATE night.
Buy yourself some sexy briefs and bring home a bottle of white wine for steak on the barb-b-que. She will be interested if you put for forth effort. Showers for two saves water, and saves marriages. Go for it!

I have not a soul to go out on the boat with me. I lost all boat friends when I left the Coast Guard Auxiliary a couple years ago. No one to go out to sea but me and the dog. She is no Lab but likes the boat. Pity my daughter who is grown does not like boats. It is beautiful here on the coastline of Virginia Beach, Va.

I lived in Texas years ago...Waco..when she was young. I have to live only by the sea..it is part of my soul. Hope you Texas men get your acts together and don't get short changed in life by those idiot women there.

Dakereb...give her a no nonsense talk about the facts of life. You say," Fact one..I miss and love you. How about it?"
Good night to lonely hearts in Texas
Claudette

mifefish
12th June 2008, 07:37 PM
hahhaa 3x???? well i have, but no it is definetly at the tender age of 48 not my preference. i would say if i had my druthers 2-3 times in a 7 day week would do quite nicely. it all about quality as far as i am concerned.
i would rather have earth shattering 2-3 times a week than everyday kinda ok.
i will not be sucked into a fight it is not an option.
she is still my wife though and i do still care what happens to her.
just the man my mother raised.
i have offered to help her in any way to move but it will prob be an injunction by the court i bet.

no there will be no more short courtships at my house. it will be longterm friendship with absolute certainty we are compatible behind the bedroom door, or in the bathroom, or in the living room, or in the washroom. you get the picture. we will definetly be alike in that way.

i feel as if someone has opened the window and i can see the sun again?
does that make any sense at all? i have no idea where this stuff comes from inside my head


mike

1aokgal
12th June 2008, 08:43 PM
Dear Funny Guy, Mike...

HAHAHA...3X week? The ladies are taking numbers even as we speak.
Yes, it is right and good you help her to get relocated and maybe move her stuff. Whistle while you work like the little dwarfs in Snow White, remember that movie!

Don't do any cliff hanging regret scenes with her and get it worked right in your head. One ALWAYS has regrets about the What-ifs. You truly gave it a shot long enough to know she was not for real. Maybe she is a head-case, Mike? You were a butterfly she captured pretty fast with sexual athletics. Don't let that happen again!

You get yourself moving as jogging for natural anti-depressant and stay clear of turmoil and shouting matches. You keep your hands to your sides or leave the house because this chick may try to bait you to fight so you then feel bad. It is a game NOT ladies play. She is NOT a lady so I take it she may pull out a bag of tricks at this ending. You do the right thing all the way. Be a gentleman and say goodbye and walk away. I am sure that is your mindset, but do be careful.

Yes, you must feel like weight is lifted because you turned the corner and know that it would NEVER have worked out. That woman is NOT wired tight and re-read her note anytime you get faint of heart!

I must run to the boat and will go tomorrow and spend some time as it is all waxed and nice. I think about buying a good metal detector and combing the beaches here for valuables. It is for fun, not to get rich. One guy I read about here found $1,200 worth of valuables, coins and jewelry in one. I plan to compare the detectors here as the hobbystore as a wide selection and brands for sale. I also researched online. We have the world's tourists here from Canada and all over who come burn away on our beaches. They pack in like sardines on blankets so go swim in our Chesapeake bay.

It was a thought I had some time back for fun. After I saw this article and there is local store that carries them...well, I must go look. Sounds like a hoot.

Tomorrow I go to the new creepy movie, The Happening by M. Night Shylaman. Love the weird one!

Yes, about metal detector....I have too many toys.
I should paint. I have neglected my paintings lately. I sell some of my paintings placed on an international site carried by a man in Greece.
I do think you sound so much better. Be a love and take care of yourself and think no negative thoughts. Improve the product for tomorrow by working on you and your better mental state.

Think Karate class, gym. long walks. get a dog. go fishing...write to us here.

A Hug for Mike
Claudette

Elli
13th June 2008, 10:19 PM
Hi
I have just found this forum. I am also living in a sexless marriage and have been ever since my youngest son was born 26 years ago. My husband has since told me that he has never loved me and that no-one could love a person like me. He is emotionally and verbally abusive but he has never hit me, though he has pushed me or grabbed me on a few occasions. I no longer have any feelings for him whatsoever, I live in fear of him walking through the door in the evening. I have tried going down the divorce road, but I could not even buy a one bed flat with my half of the what we would get for the house. My husband is due to retire next year and I know I have to do something before then. I dont have any qualifications (well I was trained as a typist on a typewriter!!) and he has destroyed most of my confidence and self worth and I am quite scared of trying to get a job, I just dont know where to start on such questions as what I could bring to the job etc. I know he has broken his marriage vows but do you think God still views this as a marriage?
He has refused to go to counselling, we went on an initial session with Relate but he refused to go back, I went to counselling for months with my pastor and his wife, but he refused to go, saying I was the problem not him

1aokgal
13th June 2008, 11:02 PM
Dear Elli.....

Welcome to this forum. I am sorry you are here for the reason we are all here but we understand your pain. Many of us make accomadation to live in a marriage devoid of intimacy because of the financial or emotional issues, age or other reasons. It sounds as if you have done that for many years.
When your husband retires and shares the space fulltime that may escalate the problems. Is that your main concern? Is alcohol or drugs a factor in some of the aggressive incidents? Do you think he will choose to work at something else? Few can live comfortably on retirement income. Though there are problems in your marriage it seems he is still concerned enough to provide a home and income to meet your needs. If he had no concern for you then it would seem he would not care for your comfort.

Do your children live in the area? Is is possible you can work from home and start to put some money aside?
Bye for now

Bambar
14th June 2008, 12:18 AM
Elli,

It is so sad to read your story, familiar as it is to most of us here. You have made a good start by looking at a site like this where we try to support one another from a basis of shared experience.

We can all understand how undermined & diminished you feel in this situation but you have had the confidence to go to counselling on your own, no mean feat in itself, & must understand now that your husband's cruel words are entirely untrue. They come from a weak man whose only form of defence is attack, a bully who relies on intimidation to keep a woman because he has no positive qualities of his own.

If you were trained as a typist you have a headstart over many other people who use a keyboard today. Do not undervalue the abilities you have developed as a homemaker, either. The organisational skills required to run a household are many & varied & you will be surprised at how these can be applied to the world of work. There are courses available to help women get back into work & you might make a start by doing something on a voluntary basis at first. Being valued as a colleague will be good for your ego & you will gain a great sense of achievement & independence from doing something outside the home.

The question about how God views your relationship is one best answered by your religious guide. The important point at the moment is that you need to take care of yourself & get to a point where your husband does not entirely dominate your existence.

It is easy to be cowed into a downward spiral of introspection & self-examination in this situation. Try, instead, to channel the emotional energy you formerly used like this, into something more positive & uplifting for yourself. It feels impossible at first, but it really can happen if you take just one step at a time.

Take care of yourself.

1aokgal
19th June 2008, 01:37 AM
Dear Bambar......

How are you? The days of summer are great here and I enjoy the warmer days and activities in the area as art shows and festivals. My husband is gone for another month so I try to get work done on the house and end up doing things myself. The siding needs a sparkle so I bought this wash you connect to the hose and spray it. We have a power washer which my husband would do if he were here. I thought to pay to have it done but generally figure out the easiest way to do it without that.

He emails and calls me every few days. It seems they are stuck off the coast of Kuwait for three days in a terrible sandstorm. The conditions are very bad, he says, so that delays the return. It appears it may be mid July before he returns. After so many years with his kind of job there are few days when I really notice he is gone. The animals, the chores, the many things I get invested in doing, keeps me busy.

I hope things are going OK for you. You probably have recovered most of your mobility, right? I have to admit I was surprised that you planned to separate after many years of tolerance to the status quo. I wish there was a twin of yours here to go to the movies, lunch or out on the boat. It has been a problem for me to find a capable and hardy woman who wants to get out and bike ride or out on the boat. I lost my network of people when I resigned from the Coast Guard group here.

My daughter has no love for boating. So there are times I am "grounded" to be sensible and not put to sea with just the dog. Lonely, not. Frustrated to need another hand, yes.

I keep my Grandchild here overnight some days of the month as my daughter works her night shifts. Now that school is out I don't have to rush her early mornings on the long drive to the school which is in the next city. I will enjoy her to come over and get in the pool with me here.

Well, just wanted to wish you well as you go about your days there. I so wished I had been able to spend more than 3 days in London years ago. My mother-in-law called me from Germany the other day. She is now widowed and I feel bad for her. Perhaps I will think to help her with costs to come here for a couple of weeks. I have cats, a sick dog and a biz to keep going and the dollar down is not a good time to go that direction.

Take care of yourself.
Claudette

1aokgal
20th June 2008, 07:43 AM
Dear Lynn.....

You come to this site as the many other lonely hearts before you have done. We are the ones who live in a sexless marriage and feel the sadness of rejection and do not know how we got to this point. Welome.

I am so sorry you are here for the reason you are here but hope in the reading of the posts from the men and women here you may find some
feeling that you are not alone and some support. We have darn few suggestions or advice to give you , Lynn, because most of us have not got a clue why our partners/spouses shut the door. If they were out womanizing, drinking or other behavior it might be easier to lump it into the category that he is a loser.

That seems not to be the case for most who both love and have comfortable (though tense) relationships. Many of the marriages are long term and have gone through many years with no answer and no intimacy. A few here have decided to separate but that may not be the option for many with children, family loyalty and financial concerns . There comes a time when the options are no longer there for one to leave it and go.

I hope you will find some answers and it gets easier to sort it out to know that either we ARE there or HAVE been there.

1aokgal
20th June 2008, 10:50 AM
Dear Bambar....

I am SO glad to hear from you. You are always the breath of fresh air in your logical analysis of God and the world. Thanks for asking about my daughter. She is all the things you mentioned a really intelligent loving hard working girl who just as it happens admires this really neat Amazon sports crack woman friend. I tell you she is quite a package.

My daughter was motivated to lose 34 pounds and go buy a mountain bike. I see she pulled her treadmill into the bedroom and gets on it an hour a day. The friend runs marathons and if you saw her you would say "Wow, is she in shape" . So a healthy friend to have for all the positive elements. I think the operable word for me is, "Don't ask, don't tell."

Would you beleive it but my mother and my stepfather had great sex into their 80's but fought like hounds. They shared the house at opposite ends for years and met in the bedroom and each returned to their space. When he died I think she missed him. I asked how she could have sex when she fought with him. She said it was healthy for heart, body, etc. She expected him to deliver...and he did. She is still doing well at 92 but in a facility with dementia.

Yes, I do understand about the loneliness because my husband slept and never missed me at 3AM when I posted emails. It was the loneliness and anger I felt to lie there and he was always so comfortable and snored so bad. Not a care...and I had that pit in my stomach feeling that the years were wasted. while we shopped together, did things we were separate more than my mother lived.

I never thought I would have such a problem. I thought I got a catch for half the marriage EXCEPT he had all these hangups and sex so infrequent. Who would imagine the creek would go dry forever? Five generations of women in my family and none made a happy marriage. I would give him a 90% on the rest of things we do together but the sexual aspect is the love that brings two together. He is so kind to me but is it kind to withhold the basis of the marriage? There is no way to remove that element without gross damage to the psyche and a lot of anger.

The sad part is I have always loved him. If I could dislike him or have no feelings it would have been better. We liked the same music, foods and think alike about issues. He is comfortable to never talk, or discuss sex in any way. It is a dead issue as far as he is concerned. He would be horrified to think I might have a lover yet he set the stage all the years of neglect. It hurt me worse because to him I seemed to have no value except when my level head is needed. I do the taxes, the bills manage the home. He could always be so sincere in how he said he loved me. The outcome was always the same..ZILCH>>ZERO. Something is missing in these men!

I am so sorry to hear there is now a further health issue. When will you have a resolution or tests done on this? Hard to believe He was not there to assist or give some emotional help and drive you home and see if there were things he could do for you. That really does not say much for the loyalty of many years together or concern for your welfare. That would have hurt and made me crazy angry. (Just what you don't want to be is upset.)


It is hard to be ill now for us both and to chalk off the years there was waste and one was treated as having no value except for the services and companionship. I do not think my husband could live alone. Whereas I am fine with my animals and activities though I miss the tasks shared as washing the house exterior and "men's work." I hire it or if not too strenuous I do it...slowly. it seems your husband continues to get the services he needs as cooking and companionship and still can operate on his schedule as he always did. Your sons were aware of this and will help when you need them.

My daughter and I go to the movie tomorrow as she has a day or two off. I don't see much of her with overtime work hours and the friendship. I will invite them over to use the pool and put something on the bar-b-que.

I think you are courageous to stand independent. I admire your decision. Not one way would I not respect your choice. If I were you I would have done the same. I just hope you have weighed all the options of survival so you can thrive and not put your health in jeopardy. That is too late for me by some years and a serious heart dysfunction. Work from home is when I choose and frankly, he is so generous for my welfare. As you say his guilt/need to make up for what is lacking means he supplies a lot of income direct to my account. That amount is sure an indication of his caring for me and unselfish committment to my care. I hear some women who don't even know what their husband earns.

Perhaps if I had confronted him 10 years ago there would have been a change or I might get some truthful admission. No, he has no porn sites. I could understand that one! It sounds as if you spend a good deal of time to caretake for him and the problems there can be significant.

My health and new chest X-ray the heart dysfunction test shows a greater enlargement of the heart. That baby sounds like a broken steam engine. Even my doctor jokes about it with me that it sounds like the team in there works on mixed signals. No, it gets no better. So I use the pool and enjoy ..walk the dog every few evenings and don't bake in the sun but use sunless cream.

Would you bellieve I bought a fancy metal detector today and got treasure books off ebay. Yes, I will be an urban treasure hunter. Coins and such and jewelry at the beach. There is a club here I plan to join. I thought about this for some time.

I had to say goodbye to my dancing and to realize that part is over. That little heart won't take rattling around. I plan to sell my costumes and fancy shoes on ebay. I know a guy who got a MD a couple years ago... not as pro as this one..... and found a whole lot of good jewelry and was bringing in quite a catch.

Best places to hunt are the beach, ball parks , historical house yards in old neighborhoods. One man sold a coin to a dealer for $45,000 and the dealer plans to sell for double that. One single rare gold coin. I was interested for years and just got some magazines and books and decided to do it. What shall I be when I grow up? I think I will NOT grow up.

I asked my daughter if she wants to go hunt treasure/coins with me sometime.. ...Picture: me in earphones, with the detector prowling over a park lawn. She said ,"NO!" then she cracked up laughing, as I did as well. Her mother has quietly slid over to ...THE DARK SIDE!

One just has to use care where you hunt or some gang type hunts the hunter!
Bye for now..
PS. I hope everything goes OK for you on the health. I would miss to hear from you.
Claudette

Lynn
21st June 2008, 12:02 AM
thank you so much okgal and mike! Are you both from oklahoma? If so maybe it has to do with the state. I am from oklahoma also. I am so glad i found this room, it is nice to know i am not the only one going through this! I mean I hate that other people are going through it but now i know i am not alone.

Bambar
21st June 2008, 12:50 AM
Hi Claudette,

I'm so sorry to hear that your flamenco plans have been scuppered by the heart problem, but love the idea of you digging for buried treasure in the neighbourhood, hotly pursued by shady characters. Maybe I should try it here, as there's a Roman site close to my garden, but there are all kinds of problems with people using metal detectors here then selling ancient artefacts that the archaeologists would have liked to get to first.

Your mother sounds like a real tough woman in her time. I can't imagine a relationship like the one she had with your stepfather as I've always associated sex with positive emotions rather than just sheer physical exercise. She seems to have been able to separate the physical from the emotional, rather as people say most men do.

I wonder about the men, who like yours, & until recently, mine, profess to love, care for & respect us but draw the line at a point where it suits them. They appreciate our practicality & may even admire some of our qualities in a fairly abstract way, but they seem to have no real emotional connection with us. They manage to give just enough of themselves to make us feel churlish for complaining & to send us into a downward spiral of introspection & resentment.

At least your husband does seem genuine in his willingness to care for you when you are ill & to do what he can, within his self-imposed limits, to offer you care & support. The fact that mine feels no such obligation when I have always done more than my duty towards him was one of the deciding factors for me. It was not an act of cruel, intentional neglect on his part, more my realisation that this behaviour was symptomatic of his whole approach to our relationship.

Anyway, I get the results of my test in a couple of weeks, though I am confident all will be OK. I'll keep you posted. Whatever happens, I know he could not have been relied upon to give me the support I would need but I am lucky to have others who will do that for me. I am past the stage when I would have been angry about this, & in fact, anticipated it, which is one of the reasons why I deferred my hip replacements for so long. If anything, I feel my health will be improved by no longer carrying the stress of dealing with this destructive relationship, so feel no anxiety about living alone.

I will think of you in full detector outfit, cutting a swathe through the neighbourhood. Perhaps you could consider it a modern day version of Sherlock Holmes's investigations & create a suitable period outfit to put other detectors off the scent?

Happy Hunting!

1aokgal
21st June 2008, 04:20 AM
Dear Mike...

When you were absent for a few days I steeled myself that you might send a post that goes like this....

"Well, all is well. We had an argument but it seemed productive. In fact, she was so upset that she might lose me that we holed up in a cheap hotel that rents sheets by the hour to have the best sex we ever had. All is well and I won't be posting anymore."

Mike, I would dutifully say...Oh, wonderful, glad it worked out and in my mind I would be rehearsing and taking numbers how many days that would hold. Then I would sell sex lottery tickets here on the forum. So glad I don't have to print these OR lie and say all is well. Oh, you know how much I wish you well!

The realistic view is that this would delay getting on with the next half of your life. The statistics of breakups is it usually takes about 3 years to admit one has bought a pig in a poke or UH-OH....no cigar on this one.

I am sure you will both have regrets when it is really over. You might have those moments when you wonder if you do the right thing. Only you can know the capacity of the pain that you can have before you start to heal and move on. I think you sound like a SUPER guy..... interesting and fun.... and for sure there is a woman out there dying to drag you into some corner on a regular basis AND keep marital vows. Just don't you throw yourself away too fast and look over the field a bit as I told you before.

Yes, now Lynn comes to the river here to eat of the tree of wisdom. We can only hope that she finds what she seeks and can get tougher and more demanding of her partner or decides whether it is worth it to put up with the daily status quo to have a peaceful life.

Personally, I think that love should come with enough passion to fill a vase. Where is the problem with two healthy people to find they have a good lover in the mate. These cool types all reserved and such...spare us from them.

Did you read I am now an Urban Treasure Hunter? Yes, my daughter thinks I finally ate jujube beans and got a brain disease. I always knew I was unconventional and well, even strange. While others planned ladies meetings and lunches I took Flamenco classes and danced with a group. I joined the Coast Guard auxilary and was captain of the boat for 6.5 years. I took a Flamenco lesson last week after 3 year absence and had to admit that I would need to be an observer now. So on with the next plan.

I had thougt seveal years about treasure hunting. So I researched the metal detectors and found a great one with a turn key operation for a dummy. The icon pictures tell you if it is a flip top, a ring, or coin. So you know what it is before you dig. I will spend a couple days prowling my own yard then move to a square in the olde town where houses go to 1800.
Those brits who have all the good stuff really old places to hunt will laugh at me who tries to search out coins older than 30 years! Anyway I knew a guy who had one and he had great luck. It is the adventure and the fun to research and Yes, hitting a good strike will be OK as well.

When I exhaust some places here I will go to Richmond, Va. which is an hour away and the town centers and parks would be fertile for coin hunting. Now I shall wear jeans and ball cap with my earphones under and scour with my handy metal detector. Bye the way I will also carry a can of MACE. Some gang types might think I found the Hope Diamond. I have a little digging trowel and things to use for pin point. When next you read from me I may have hit the big cache!

The friend I knew that had a cheap one found a gorgeous diamond solitaire ring and a lot of gold jewelry and thousands of coins both rare and recent. I know it was enough to keep him in pot money so said his girlfriend. I sure don't want to uncover a fertile field of flip tops!


Glad to hear you are getting past things and yes, it will take some time.
Bye for now
Claudette

1aokgal
21st June 2008, 02:51 PM
Lynn.....

In answer to your question I am from Virginia Beach, Va. and Mike is from OKlahoma.
This site gets them from all over.

1aokgal
22nd June 2008, 04:53 AM
To all....
I got my first different thing being an Urban Treasure Hunter with my metal detector.
POISON IVY.
Sigh...scratch, scratch.
Well it is a little on both hands, my ankle, a little o my rib, and a small place near my chin. So far I have not left my own backyard where I found some poptops, a couple of coins while I learn to read the machine.

I have always gotten poison ivy when it is around. I once had a neighbor who burned brush from his yard. I lived across a pond from him. I got almost TERMINAL poison ivy. My doctor said there is an oil in it that burned went out in the air.
Lucky I am not into any contact sports here. HAHA. Thank gosh for Calamine lotion. I shall keep you informed!

1aokgal
22nd June 2008, 06:08 AM
Bambar....

Here it is another weekend. It seems I have so many things that need to be done.
I need to get reliable yard care as mine is fitted between two neighborhood teens who seem to need the money less than to get out and socialize. It might be time to get a bi-weekly yard firm. I bet my husband does not miss that chore.

Yes, the Flamenco was a lot of fun. I sell everything on ebay so the costumes with the extravagant ruffled skirts should do well. I will sell all but one pair of lovely red suede shoes with laces from Spain. It is possible to have the staccoto nails removed from the heels to wear out in the evening. One of my instructors was a petite woman ,83, who had danced at the Kennedy center and all over the world. She still dances beautifully. I'm accept the health concern ends it for me. Still I will attend when there are performances here.

I hope you get your test results and that shadow off the table. Then you just get your checkups as we should on a regular basis.

You have fabulous opportunity in your part of the world to uncover great things.
A good metal detector will pay for itself just on the regualr coins one finds. There is always the chance of finding lost valuables. Here at the beach we have a long coastline and people here from all over. You would not believe how many lost rings, gold necklaces and various coins can be easily found. I think the club here for metal detector devotees would be fun. They go on little excursions and share info.

It would be a good idea to borrow a coin ID book from the library. The idea is to find silver coins and the detector tells you what is there in an icon before you dig. It also tells how deep it is. Some coins sell for huge prices. Read post above..one of my first adventures.

Take care. Keep in touch.

mifefish
23rd June 2008, 10:32 PM
nope fraid not claudette. however she wants to try to save us somehow???? there is only one way and now i dont think its possible
i have poured the water out of the glass so to speak.
she did try to "perform" on me over the weekend (i wont get into details)
but i refused, not mean or angry just politely said no thanks.
she is very upset. adn i wish it had not gotten there. but it was not of my choosing that it did.
i am following through with the divorce.

lynn whats the liklihood two of us in okla? hahah
i am from collinsville. where are you from?

as you can probably tell claudette i have a calm feel around me now i guess i know what to do instead of trying to fix and patch and whatever
i am going to take care of myself and my kids for once.
and hope for the best.

hope to hear from all soon claudette good luck with the "buried treasure"
remember the price of scrap aluminum is higher everyday!!!!

have to work see you later all


mike

1aokgal
24th June 2008, 02:01 AM
Mike.......

Remember a few posts back I told you that you likely would get an academy award performance on her regret and "let's go ahead and have great sex! " I call that too little, too late. She followed true to form as she sees her way of life will be altered considerably. It gets slim pickings when one has to pull the boat alone.

She got you pretty fast and then figured it was a done deal and failed to put forth even minimal effort so you can see now she is a phony. Too bad...because there are so many right women who wish they found a nice guy and would spend time in the kitchen making muffins ands showing you muffins in the bedroom. Just don't be hard on the next one and give her a chance by taking a longer time to bring home the prize.

A reading of our posts shows you there are so many women stuck with cool partners who have the opposite of your scenario. However it plays out...... it stinks for one mate to withhold sex and force the other partner to live celibate. I'm glad you have gone through the door and can weigh out the truth...you have a very bad marriage. The longer you would stay, the less enabled you would be to start over.

Time goes by for me and it always surprises me how my husband in the one hand can be so concerned for me and is so generous. On the other hand he can look me in the face when he returns and carry on the charade of a marriage. He is such a good roomate and I enjoy his company. Then there are the days I am sad and angry. He is such a nice man I feel pity that he cheated both of us out of a fine marriage. Ah well, enough said on that one. That horse already died!
The truth is, I admire his fine intelligence and see the good in him.

You are doing the right thing. She may have just got the message. You have years and years ahead and deserve a great love. Don't you agree you might find just the right one! To fix up and make do...no, I don't see that from you, Mike. You have too much good stuff to throw it away. My grandmother would say," Do not throw pearls in front of swine." In other words don't waste the effort on one not worthy of the dirt under your fingernail.


Who ever heard of Collinwood? Isn't that the vampire city mentioned in the TV soap opera with Jacob Collins? Brrr...r...r , you are not partial to neckbiting, are you?

Talk to you soon.

mifefish
24th June 2008, 05:39 PM
COLLINSVILLE, OK A LITTLE PIECE OF HEAVAN :) MY dear Claudette

neck nibbling yes biting no. unless i am asked.
i aim to please whatever the requirements?
i so wanted to spend my life with this woman, but it will not be
she showed her cards too soon i guess?
i have to kiss and be kissed i have to love and be loved PHYSICALLY!!!!!
its who god made me. i will find another and will do my best to assure all is well before i allow her inside my heart.

I AM A GOOD MAN adn i deserve the same in a woman.
have to go will be by later


mike

Bambar
24th June 2008, 10:00 PM
Hi Lynn,

I intended to reply to you sooner & hope you don't mind this late response.

You must have wondered what drew you to re-marry your husband after all the pain of your first divorce. Was it, perhaps, that it was easier to find solace in the familiarity of one another than to take the risk of managing alone or seeking a new partner? Many of us return to or simply tolerate the situation you describe so well just because of those reasons.

At 37 you have a long time ahead of you in which to feel unloved by maintaining this hollow relationship, or you can take control of your own destiny by having the courage to make a new beginning.

I never believed in staying together "for the sake of the children" but found it hard to resist the convention for the same reasons you give. I tried not to show how miserable I was & worked hard to maintain the children's respect for their father, despite the pain his treatment caused me. It wasn't until both my children were adults that I really considered separation from their father. When I finally had the courage to explain the situation to them, their response was "Why didn't you do it years ago? We always knew you were unhappy together"

Your children cannot be sheltered forever from the realities of life, but you & your husband can make it clear to them that they will always be cared for by both of you. You are a young woman who has the possibility of a much happier future if you take action now. Please do not leave it so late that you will have only bitter memories to look back upon.

Take care of yourself.

mifefish
24th June 2008, 11:43 PM
i will be away for the rest of week i go to galveston to catch fish from the ocean

i hope hahahaha

se all of you when i get back.
where are you from in ok lynn?

bye mike

1aokgal
25th June 2008, 07:26 PM
Your trip to Galveston sounds great!

I don't dirty my wall to wall carpet on the boat with fish when I can order fish at a good restaurant. Yes, I got it that is a restful thing to do...fish. I like to power boat to see the sights and to anchor somewhere and hang out. Guess with cost of gas now it seems most of us will hang out more than prowling around on the water!

Love to tie up at the dockside reastaurants and the boat people here are great. This is a seaside/coastal resort area so all about life at it's finest. There are a lot of activities here and festivals, art galleries.

To bad you were not in this area. You would love the community all around life on the water! Hope you have a great time and forget some problems. don't forget about your friends here when you get back.

A hug for Mike
Claudette

WilliamH
30th June 2008, 12:12 PM
Hi all,

This is my first post here. I think it's too late for me now. I didn't talk to my wife about the problems and changes I've been going through over the last couple of years. So many of the posts on here remind me of my situation. Staying up late to avoid having to discuss the problem, also to avoid yet another round of making excuses for something I have no control over. I've always found talking about anything emotional so hard and now I've destroyed any chance of trying to make it right.

Well, I left it too late. Please, if there is one thing on here that matters. It's talk about it. By bottling it all up inside, I just made her think that I had stopped loving her. That is so far from the truth.

Anyway, I hope someone reads this and it makes them take that first step. Before it is too late.

I am so sorry my love.

X.

val100
30th June 2008, 02:18 PM
WILLIAM TELL HER NOW!!!!!!

Sometimes it is never too late please try. stand infront of that door and shout out what you haev to say.

You love her so time to say it and if it is too late then take care of her and let her find what she needs and remain respectful.

Best of luck

Lynn
1st July 2008, 05:52 AM
Thanks for the advice! At this point I need all I can get. And the thing about it is that we really don't fight or argue much but it is like I am living with a roommate instead of my husband and I am tired of living like this and am ready to move on! Mike I am from a small town between Durant and Ardmore.

mifefish
1st July 2008, 09:24 PM
i was just there friday afternoon i guess you live in madill?
too bad for him and you. its unbelievable isnt it the person who is supposed to be the one who will chase you around the bedroom even when we get old and wrinkled doesnt desire us now???? that is the dilemma i was so torn up over. i was so naive i thought all men unless medically unable were of course enthralled with the thought of being sexual with their wife?till i found thid website. it makes no sense. these folks have lost the thing which makes us different from the animals. i dont need a roomate i need a wife and lover.
i dont have an explanation just the desire to move on too and find a person who completes me and me them. i need a woman who thinks i am the one. the man she cant stand to be without too long. the one who knows exactly where and how she wants to be touched. and likewise.
sounds pretty simple huh? thats how god intended it.
we need a mate. i need a mate make no mistake about it men and women like us do not function well with lonliness. its too hard.
this life can be so easy, or so hard i want easy again. i want to come home and have my mate give me that look only she can. that i know i am her man. and no one elses. please know you are not alone Lynn. there is a way out. not easy but it is possible.

hello claudette:) how are you i am much better. my head is clearer adn i know the way. i wish you well cant wait to see your post again.
use some of your wisdom on Lynn she is a good lady and a fellow okie in need of your wonderful eloquent words. adn the love of a good man. and there are a few of us left.

mike

1aokgal
2nd July 2008, 01:20 AM
Dear Mike....

Well, fish or not? I love fish when it is cooked and prepared and not on the pole wiggling. My animal loving heart can't take that.

Yes, I have followed the posts between the Okies. Is there an anti-sex virus moving in Okla. like in the movie, The happening? That was about the breeze carrying some weird thing that affected people. Well, it got here in Va. long ago. You had only a few months to put up with that behavior! Some on this forum have seen 15-20 years of celibate life.

I told my husband by email we could go away a few days on a short getaway when he gets back. I had a friend who spent $8,000 on an Alaskan cruise. I mean to save the $7,800 and go up a few hours away to a private land area where for $100 year you can lease the land to camp as much time as you want. It is about 2 hours away. This place is know for active gold prospecting so the fun part is one can go gold prospecting and work the streams there.It would be fun to go up for 2 days.

Now...he sent me a really cute email about my far out ideas. One would read it and say he loves me and enjoys such outings. No sex for YEARS AND YEARS .....nada, zilch, nothing. He is 53. What happened? I do not have a clue. I wear size 10 so am not exactly hard to look at either.

Your post this time says it all....... the sadness, the confusion, the rejection and anger of what it is like to live in an imbalanced relationship or marriage. One has no desire and the other is left to deal with it, however. What gets me is these people would go berserk if they thought the rejected spouse had a lover to supply what they do not.

Yes, if Lynn does not feel threatened let her have YOUR email or you can get a neutral email box at yahoo until you decide it is an OK thing to exchange more personal info. That is, if she feels comfortable.

You both must realize there are a lot of baggage problems that come with the leftovers of such a marriage that the person who has left must deal with in future. I think there is so much damage done that you darn near need a shrink before you can move forward. Mike, I almost picture a guy not able to function in the next relationship at first with all that has occurred.

For myself, my confidence is shattered. If my husband were at all changed I could NOT have sex with him. He would first have to pay the bill for the hurt he has caused in some manner. Does that make sense? The next woman for you may have to pay the bill unless you have worked out some of the issues.

That is a good point for conversation AND you read the book. What do you think?

mifefish
2nd July 2008, 05:32 PM
the process has aready begun claudette i have seen a counselor 2 times and as it turns out i am a normal person? it is right that a man should need his spouse sexually. not just want byt NEED!!!!! amazing huh?
she has made me realize already it was never me. as i asssumed it had to be in some way.
claudette why wont you find a man to love you corrently?
you deserve it!!
we all do.
Lynn i would like to trade e-mail with you as claudette has sugggested if you want.
might be nice to trade okie stories etc. and we do have at least one thing in common (unfortunetly) i dont know if you read back in my posts but i am an engineer for an aerospace firm. what do you do? i would guess from the part of the state either healthcare or oil and gas?? i just like to guess.
any way i need to engineer something see you late all.


thanks again claudette.

mike

1aokgal
2nd July 2008, 06:54 PM
Dear Okie Guy,

Ah, there is that engineer brain at work. You are SO much smarter than the average bear. So glad the typical male pride did not stop you from seeking counselling to cope with the damage all this garbage causes. I call it the disintegration of ones' personality by the cruelty of another.

I know I could never live in Oklahoma or any state landbound. Part of my joy in living is my attachment to the sea. It is one of the perks to indulge my passion in living life fully as one can to swim in the pool here and go on the boat often. My condition of life is pretty well set because though my husband is not sexual he provides so well for me. If I have a cage......let us say it is a golden one. My income is assurred by direct deposits in my account of over $150,000 a year AFTER tax income by a man who cares for my welfare. He is unselfish to a fault. I have seen he has a rude temper which has only a few times in many years ever been directed towards me. So there is only two elements missing...the truth, if he knows it..Why? The other.... is sex not there for 15 years.

I say as men go, that he puts forth a lot of effort in my behalf and he enjoys my ability or talents and praises me to others. To others he seems to be a happy man. I know women who don't even know how much money their husband earns or even where it is located. There is the bond we share in same likes/dislikes. If he were willing to sit down and talk and enter into discussion and disclosure I would feel less bitter over the loss of years here.

I saw a TV program the other day and after 10 years of such behavior a woman tracked her husband to gay porn and such and he admitted he could no longer have sex with her. She would have had 10 years less grief to get that out before. This is all a loss for us who have gone through these hurtful issues. We need truth.

I may or may not have adjusted to life not at it's finest. There are times I feel real anger about it all. Then there are the other times when I have a warm loving feeling for the man and worry about the tough job he does and his safety. I think I am a fine woman and he cheated us both and time has been wasted we could have had it all. The truth would help a lot.
Must go.
Claudette

mifefish
2nd July 2008, 06:54 PM
something just occurred to me claudette. your last post you say you are a size 10 etc. i am posative you are a gorgeous woman in every sense of the word size doesnt matte reither my wife is a 20 adn it is of no matter to me she is to me a physically beautiful woman lets face it none of us are 20 anymore?
i weighed 400 at one time now 260 6'4' i am a big man and always will be.
adn i even when i was at my biggest i never had trouble atttracting women because i am a true gentleman and i treat all women with the samr respect i ask of them for me.
how we look ad long as we have not allowed ourself to be dirty or non hygenically correct. (I DONT KNOW WHERE I COME UP WITH THESE WORDS) HAHAHAHA we are all gorgeous to someone.
if i was i VA. i would hunt you down like a mad dog and beg you to have dinner with me just to have the opportunuity to listen to yo adn your perspective on things you hav ea way of explaining things that truly get to me.
claudette you need to make a change in your life happiness is only a chance away. i bet you have men all the time notice you at the grocery store etc. take a chance adn listen to yourself its not too late my dear.

lynn listen to claudette she has been through this and still lives it. she knows the long term effects of this suffering DONT DO IT. the only way he will change is if he wants too not because you want him too because if he would e alredy would have.
lets strike up a line of communication whatcha think?

boy i feel better amazing what you can think of when you are not lying the ditch with a great weight on top of you:) (metaphorically of course)

mike

katsey
3rd July 2008, 01:22 AM
Hi
This is the first time i write... its been one and half year since i got married, first 6 mths of marraige he rejected me completely and whenever i tried 2 come close, he wud say he is tired ,or stressed it continued and i bcame frustrated, i wanted 2 find ans we went saw doc but he always made me feel like he is doing favour on me by coming close,the doc did tell him 2 try viagara,but till today he is never bn motivated to try it,i used to get angry at him,for being unfair,but now i have a strong urge but i have started disliking him, i dont want 2 get close to him,and i try 2 avoid if he wants to hug,but then i dont want 2 hurt him so i go along,but if i initiate he will turn his face and say hes tired,he also initiates and when i try 2 respond just pretends 2 sleep, i find it very humiliating,or he says he is very shy,but i have cn him talk 2 all very freely. i am losing all feelings, i want to be on my own...but i am scared to take the steps. looking for answers........He does seek attention from other gals which leaves me confused and insecure, i dont know what to do?

Lynn
3rd July 2008, 03:54 AM
Claudette how have you done it for so long? I thought it had been a long time for me but geeez you are one amazing woman. I am 6'0 and wear a size 12 and know that I am not the size I was when we married 18 years ago but he has gained over 80 lbs and is losing his hair so I just don't understand! I think my self esteem is shot to hell!! But I guess what topped it off is when he told me that he loved me and would always love me because we had been together to long for him not to love me but that he wasn't attracted to me anymore! That hurt!! It is so hard when you have children and am afraid that I can't make it on my own finacially. But and working on getting some bills paid off because I cannot go on like this much longer. Mike you weren't far off about where I live. I just hate to put it here because I am a school teacher and its such a small world, I don't want anyone to figure out who I am if you know what I mean. If you want to give me your email address I will email you. It is so sad that so many people are going through the same thing and here for years I thought it was just me. I hope everyone has a great 4th! Sorry everything is running together but my enter key isn't working on my laptop. LOL

1aokgal
3rd July 2008, 04:12 AM
Mike....

I think you are too adorable for words. My goodness, you are a cuddle bear. I adore tall guys with snuggle appeal. You cracked me up for a full 10 minutes good giggles worth!

Hunt me down like a mad dog??? Yup, a woman can appreciate that for sure. Bet we would have a hundred laughs about all this if we shared lunch. Let's admit it..it would be kind of funny if you imagine we are like a hot dog getting roated over the spit. That is life that is unfulfilled. The desire to love and be loved ..well that is how our species survived as we lal or almost all...NOT THEM...have the spark that our Creator built in to the unit.

One of the things I miss is just being naughty and having that giggle feeling one feels when there is passion in living. I saw a program on Alaska and a camp area near Mt. Mckinley. Now that strikes me as a place to go for passion in a cabin looking out on that panorama. That has to be one exciting place to go with someone you love. It was wonderful just to see the program ..one can amost smell the outdoors ans imagine going nto the privy with the little half moon on the door in such a place. That must be heaven to see all that. It is to live a passionate life!

You see when I mentioned my size.....it is because I, like other women, believe or felt that the problem was we/me...as perhaps we are not female enough, thin enough, sexy enough or whatever it might be that caused our mate to turn from us. I once got much thinner and it cost me constant days at the gym and I transformed my figure into quite a production. My husband then told me.....get this, "I don't feel comfortable having sex with you...you are too thin." That one almost did me in. Then I said Oh, now I understand. It is not about me at all. It is about him, whatever it is is in him. That helped me to finally know it wasn't my fault. Men have always followed me through stores and I mean men years younger. No silly stories here but I had a few tales that were pretty funny.

Now this sounds like I diss him about everything. That is not true. I do feel I will never have the truth of all this aand may be glad I don't know it if I ever heard the truth. Sometimes I feel I am just window dressing for others so a man can hide the fact he is not interested in women.

See, there is the damage that all this scenario can work on a person. Then we fear how other people think of us that WE have this problem. Again, we internalize there is something wrong with us. Years ago I confided in my mother..... which I came to regret. She said SHE never had a problem having a man want to have sex with her. Oh, that one got me. My mother was always a killer of confidence but that was a wound..... until I figured out that comes from HER. What is true as my mother and stepfather had a crazy full sexlife into their 80's. Imagine that! I never knew her to say kind things. So I only confided in one other person all these years. I kept his secret as so many of the women do for these men.


Once about 8 years ago my husband and I took a evening cruise on an Anniversary dinner cruise. I can't tell you how sad that was for me and I have a photo to prove it with some dog sick misery in my eyes. Imagine a boat full of party people and the ladies got flowers to take home. The dinner was great, the cruise was lovely and I looked at him smiling at me. I wondered ..."What is in this man's head?"

Imagine this ...he had a great time. I think we went home and sat a bit by the pool or watched TV and he slept soundly. No, I would never go in for that punishment again.

To talk happy times....What's going on this weekend? Well, I am going to the boat tomorrow and just buff up around it. It will be fun to go where there are human beings. I dropped a money order for $200 in my daughters screen door last night. She works the night shift. The girl works a lot of over time. She said when she called me this afternoon I "didn't have to do that." I said of course I did..you are my daughter and a lttle extra is nice. That was a feeling of passion for me to enjoy knowing she lifted off in how she can enjoy her weekend.

I bought a couple new dresses and a pair of THOSE kind of shoes that can kill my feet. I look forward to going out perhaps Saturday night.
Yes, Mike, I have a couple appreciative males who notice me.

None of them are as vital and boyish as you though! I can't believe that all that PIZZAZ is wasted in Oklahoma. Do exchange info with Lynn where she has the lead. Stranger things happen. I know several women email pals ...who paired from internet exchanges that developed into marriages.

One lady is in UK and she is to marry a guy on this one site I visit for SASS activities. Do they have that in OKla? He went to UK last month and they are now engaged. Just hope they ask the questions and try the machinery to make sure everythng is in working order!

It is possible my daughter may come by on sunday for pool and lunch here. She has friends though so it is no big deal if she has not got the time. I just need to get out more. I promised myself to look into the latin dance lessons which sounds like fun.

I hope you have a great steak and feed that tall frame well this weekend. I am 5'2" so love my 3 inch heels . I shall swim a lot this weekend and plan to go out and hunt treasure with the metal detector. Maybe I will find a 2 carat ring or some great find? Well ..maybe a few coins, at least.

HAHA. Great dreamer, me.

1aokgal
3rd July 2008, 04:14 AM
Mike...

One can always find a match no matter what size, shape there is somebody for somebody. The problem is when the inner glow goes out then you move like a shadow in the world. We must work hard to keep the vibrant feeling and not allow another to take that passion/glow away. Without that we might as well lie down and give up.

There is passion in every day if we seek it.

1aokgal
3rd July 2008, 04:47 AM
Lynn......

Wow....men love the tall gals. No, no..do NOT put your email here. Mike go register at yahoo and put that here so Lynn can contact YOU. That way she feels more comfortable, right? We do not want our Ms. Nice school teacher with the idiot husband... to be pursued by lurkers, stalkers, right?


Lynn, I really think you should find a dance place or place in the next town and perhaps a friend with similar problems or go sign up with a dance lesson place and they have social nights. He..the other...sounds like no bargain and yes, I identify with the financial concerns. I own the home here not community property.....and the vehicles but with that much income and no mortgage I live well. He is gone for months at a time. I live however I please. Another marriage is out of the question for me. I would have to be an idiot to feel I need to leave someone who is never here anyway.


You asked me how I survived the years? I think I barely survived and had weight issues and had to keep such a careful moniter on that issue. My fire went out for a long time. I probably was in depression some of that time. I don't believe in meds for that. I think I just keep gtting high on life..not another person. Lucky I don't smoke, drink, do drugs or have compulsions.

I do think I withdrew very much into myself and my painting. I was in a Coast Guard group so stayed busy doing exciting things. I wacked off my hair then. It sure was not a great look for me but with a uniform I needed trim. I am more girly and dress not fussy but very nice. I am a bit heftier in the hips than I should be for my frame. That being down some cost me a lot of working out or walking I would have done if i had the PIZZAZZ that is normally me.
We just need to work on the SPARK again. That is interor, not exterior.

I think for me I just need to get myself to circulate and enjoy myself more and rebuild some girl power. That is where the spark has gotten dimmed in these situations. I need to analyze less.... and just live more. Sometimes I mess it up for myself. Sign up for a gym and go get out of the house so you have a destination to go to..then don't go there all the time. Find a friend and get out more.

School teachers just need to have no dirty laundry to hang out where you live. No reason why you can not regain some better feelings about yourself. i will take some of my own advise.

I met a man yesterday. I wanted to go meet this man who did something really courageous and I read about him. He was so complimented I came to meet him and tell him he did the right thing. He needed to hear it. I thought he is very special because he risked his life and saved several people with his actions. I plan to bring him a bouquet of flowers with a 4th of July ribbon on it and bring it to his business where this happened.

He sat down with me a few minutes and talked about what occurred. He gave me a hug and was so pleased I talked to him about the fact he did a heroic thing. When I was ready to go he invited me to a special 4th of July luncheon he is giving at his restaurant on saturday. I think I will go.

I hope you have a great weekend. Lynn, go buy a killer pair of shoes or dangle pair of earrings just for you. Then GO somewhere..without him ...and wear them.

Claudette

1aokgal
3rd July 2008, 05:59 AM
Dear Katsey,

welcome to you on the forum. I am so sorry you are here for the reasons stated in your post. That sounds just rotten for you. It also could be written by many who have posted here. Now, I feel you have been married too short a time to tolerate this treatment. One thing I suggest real strongly...not that you ever have sex..but if you do...make sure you use birth control. Right now, you are exit prepared but a child brought into a troubled and strange marriage would be terrible. I don't know how long you knew him beforehand but many have red flag warnings and ignore them early on.

You need to not ignore the situation and even if it is uncomfortable ask him what he could be thinking or if he likes to live as if you are not there. I could bet some money on the possibility he haunts porn websites or porn mags and when one has a fantasy life..they do not need a real person. Do some sleuthing around and try to find out what is going on. Hey. I have no problem looking in a wallet, or pockets to see if I get an answer. It is highly unlikely he will tell you point plank he likes girlie mags better than you but that can be the case. It is an obsession..like gambling only more destructive to a relationship than one can know.

I would say to you from a lot of experience..it has nothing to do with you. It is not about you at all. It is what is wrong with HIM. Read the posts here and see your story repeats many times with others. It is a sad thing to live with this problem. If the relationship cannot be repaired you need to get out before you waste years.
Know that at least we understand where you are coming from and it is pretty awful.

1aokgal
3rd July 2008, 07:05 PM
Mike...

You have a profoundly romantic and wonderful soul. You sound like one HUNKA-HUNKA guy. Your place there in Oklahoma that you like with the cabins... sounds like paradise. I would look through the half moon on the little door to see the sights out there with a song in my heart. I would even bring my own Sears catalog without complaint. There ought to be someone for someone like US, right?

I feed and care for the cat/plants of my neighbor across the street for a few more days until they are back from a cruise. I don't have it for cruises unless it is off the deck of my own boat right here in this harbor. There the boat sits in drydock. I don't have a soul I know to go. I think I need to call around my X-auxilairy group and try to find another water lover like myself for some day cruises. I will get in the pool today as always..it is fabulous and what I waited the cold winter through to these days.

The weather here is great but rain forecast on the weekend, I have to do on my list in or outside. I can keep so busy. I have some baseboard painting to do and clean out the pool cabana and caulk on windows on it. That is busy work. This weekend I will work on a couple paintings in the studio. I have paintings on an international web site with a man who owns a gallery in Greece. No, I have no shortage of things to do. I live a stones throw or two away from Mount Trashmore..yes, like the name it was built over trash..a rec park right here where they have fest and fireworks display. I can swim in the pool and see the FW over the roof tops. My daughter has to work so it will be just me again this year.

Saturday afternoon I will go to the restaurant of the man I mentioned on here who I went to see when I read about him. They are a nice group that work with him and were so friendly to me. He is giving a luncheon on saturday and invited me to come. I shall wear the new dress and dress to impress and go have fun. It is nice to get out around people. Since I paint and work from home I can get too isolated.

I hope you will be with family and that you accept the best course is for you to move forward. You are such an endearing person that I know you will find your great love. Don't give up or have a faint heart. Don't be afraid everything will change for you and one day you wil wake up and see the sunrise and cooka fabulous breakfast for a woman capable to give and receive love. Let us embrace the full gift of life to live each day with joy.

katsey
8th July 2008, 09:09 PM
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Raymond
8th July 2008, 09:39 PM
Katsey if he is into porn it is like mental adultery and it will rob you of the sexual sanctity that marriage implies. It looks like he came in with this problem. Does he even see it as a problem? The funny thing is it reduces the sexual drive for one's wife and replaces it with a kind of fantasy sexual world. So far from enriching one's sex life it does the opposite. A kind of deception if you like. It won't get any better if he doesn't come to his senses and deal with it. It can and often is addictive. Marriage thrives on faithfulness and this stuff is like pouring your sexual drive into the street. A lot of men say everyone does it but they don't. That is just a weak excuse. There are millions of men who stay pure for their wives and share the close intimacy which is marriage.

Sorry to track through your thread Guys and Gals. Just passing through. I'm having a do nothing evening and have just noticed that the visits to the threads are far higher than the posters. Did you know for instance that there are 137,619 visits to this thread alone. This means your advice is reaching a massive audience and some of you are famous. (Good job it's anonymous)

Katsey there are lots of threads on the subject of pornography in it's relationship to marriage if you track back.

Raymond

Dakereb
9th July 2008, 03:19 AM
Raymond is right, porn is a detractor at best. At worst it is a destroyer. If he prefers porn to a real, living breathing woman, he has issues. His concept of sex has become that it is detached from emotion. Perhaps he does not deal well with his emotions, or the emotions of others, so he withdraws. In that world, porn is a "safe" place for him, where he can relieve his sexual urges without having to deal with his and your emotions. There is a lack of self-confidence element to this. He needs professional help, not just for your relationship, but for his own mental health.

Best of luck to you. Don't judge yourself harshly because of this, it is not yours to own, it is his.

Dakereb
9th July 2008, 04:08 AM
Dear Dakereb......

Are those women in Texas on some kind of drug they have no interest in sex? You sound like a real gentleman and a responsible good man. Pity your marriage has no fire and the days of your life pass one into the other. Maybe marriages should be renewable every 5 years like car registration?

When you stay for so long here is what I think...you take on the characteristics of the low sex partner and you find that your own battery goes into deep sleep mode. Sex has ONE truth..if you do not use it, you lose it. Relations can be so strained between partners where the sex is a too seldom an act until there is no spontaneity and no "fun" sex like water fights and such. The fun becomes a thing of the past. When sex is always a formal act it is a burden and people put it off. They have a work week and the whole production gets a bit much.

I firmly believe television has murdered libido for all concerned. Listen, one can spend hours in vicarious living and put off our own lives while we escape into fantasy. Maybe a good idea would be a NO TV night and you play scrabble, cards, monopoly..anything to talk and a bubble bath at the end of the evening for two. You owe yourself a triple banger with this woman! I guarantee these plans work.


Well....I used to anyway.... until my mate went into a many years deep freeze. Only a hand grenade would work to wake him at this point. He also is many months gone. I have come to like that very much. Life at it's finest to have ones' own space and listen to no one who snores and does not know you exist. Yes, I love this part.

Dakereb, You have the familiar contact with a woman you like but no intimacy. That is two people inside the wall. Did you know that sexual organs unused. atrophy? That is the sraight truth. Women can set themselves up for old age maladies as incontinence and bladder problems and men have more prostrate problems. Sex is also GOOD for the heart. Are you aware that BOTH of you are setting yourselves up for a shorter life because you won't make room for sex?

Now you really need to take time to discuss this subject because the longer it is neglected the less chance you will ever see a change. This is about good health. YOu also should BOTH have bicycles or join a gym together. That is two time past time and NOT TV absorbed.
If you allow the time to pass without making changes you will live in fantasy and never get it together again.

You mentioned a female friend..is a friend..married..and she does not welcome your inner thoughts. Do not read the friendship as an invite ..you are an ear to hear and she is troubled. You would be a bad guy to invade a friends' space in this case. You will also open a Pandora's box which may cost you half of all you have ifit is a community property state. Don't go there.

It is obvious you are in need, Dakereb, and the wife can put herself together pretty good as you still seem very loyal to her in spite of the drought there, right? Seek her out again. you need to set a 1X weekly DATE night.
Buy yourself some sexy briefs and bring home a bottle of white wine for steak on the barb-b-que. She will be interested if you put for forth effort. Showers for two saves water, and saves marriages. Go for it!

I have not a soul to go out on the boat with me. I lost all boat friends when I left the Coast Guard Auxiliary a couple years ago. No one to go out to sea but me and the dog. She is no Lab but likes the boat. Pity my daughter who is grown does not like boats. It is beautiful here on the coastline of Virginia Beach, Va.

I lived in Texas years ago...Waco..when she was young. I have to live only by the sea..it is part of my soul. Hope you Texas men get your acts together and don't get short changed in life by those idiot women there.

Dakereb...give her a no nonsense talk about the facts of life. You say," Fact one..I miss and love you. How about it?"
Good night to lonely hearts in Texas
Claudette

Atrophy?!!!??!! NOOOOOO!! The mental picture here is not good! I need to stop here and make an assessment: yep, it's still there! :)

Claudette, I have done all those things you suggest, and more. I've gone through so many stages; worry, self-doubt, despair, anger, depression, distraction. Everything but full acceptance. We've talked, I've pleaded, she's apologized. But still no sex. She does not like it, and I won't force it on her. I stay with her because I respect her as a human being (albeit imperfect one, with one really really big imperfection!) and I love my kids so much. I used to love her, and somewhere inside I still do. But she knows what she's done to me. She would understand fully if I left. And now that the kids are growing up, I am beginning to let myself fantasize about leaving.

Right now she has taken ill and will need surgery. She should be fine, but she'll need me to be here for her. And I will be. Simple as that. I will continue to sacrifice for her, for she is my friend. But she is not my lover. And I will take care of my own needs eventually.

But as I let myself dream a bit, I begin to realize just how much I miss the emotional closeness, the trust, the mental, unspoken connection that is so much a part of really good sex. I miss the sense of self-worth I derived from knowing that she trusts me and willingly removes all her inhibitions in my presence. I miss being welcomed into her inner world. I feel the need for that validation. Maybe I'm selfish, but that's how I feel now.

It's been about 14 years since we've had mutually enjoyable sex. It's been maybe 6 years since we've had any sex AT ALL. In the intervening 8 years, we only had sex if I initiated and she felt sorry for me, and that was maybe once a year. That did not exactly stroke the ol' male ego! I hated the feeling that I was basically forcing her to have sex with me. One of the absolutely WORST things you can say to a man during sex is an impatient "are you done yet?" I heard that almost every time. No thanks.

Oh well, as with so many others here, there is no immediate solution. If I could find a woman who shares my desire for a return to a care-free life, at least where relationships are concerned, a life where exploring simple things are fun again, where the wonders of nature are enough to captivate, no need artificial excitement, where just being alive is fun, and physical closeness is simple, natural, and spontaneous, I'd be happy once again.

1aokgal
9th July 2008, 05:57 AM
Dear Katsey,

I have read your post and you snooped around as I suggested and now you found the things we hoped you would not find. Your husband is not having an affair with another woman...he is having affairs with all the women is the porn mags and chatline websites he visits in his spare time.

This is a sexual addiction and it means bluntly that he prefers to masturbate to meet his own needs which means there is no sexual energy or interest to spend with his wife. Ugh! That is an UGLY statement but one you need to internalize and understand. It has nothing to do with you. You are not too fat, too unattractive , too uninteresting or any of the many things you imagine might turn him off.

He is not OFF, he is ON....but he frequents easy to find, available and no challenge sexual release that does not include a woman...YOU. The longer this behavior prevails, the more set it becomes.

There are no performance anxieties or erectile problems because this is a simple solution every time! The problem is men can do it BETTER and easier for themselves and real intercourse with a real woman has it's little hangups. It requires time, patience, the right moments and this way is a portable high. There is just no sexual desire left for two person sex with this scene. Men who use this mode of self satisfaction do not desire a high for the eroticism to add to the sexuality between the two of you. This is strictly a ONE PERSON SHOW.

You are early into this marriage. Right now the PIZZAZ should be all about you and not all about HIM. The man needs some serious intervention. If I were in YOUR place every magazine of a porn nature.....notice how expensive they are.....gets dumped PRONTO. Just do it.

I believe there are ways to block porn sites on the PC even if there is a password block. I would call a war and go for the crotch (so to speak) and make a famous last stand ...like Custer...only with better results...right now about this issue.

Your husband and you should be in counselling but if you make a terrible HISSYFIT maybe the shock value will prevail. This is just how I would do it in your place. If you were married for years .....well, it would be a waste of time. The behavior becomes so set over time. If the man you love and married such a short time ago, prefers to have sex with faceless women in fantasy then don't wait. You start looking for an exit.

Note, please, in the tabloids now the beautiful model, Christie Brinkley, claims her husband had all these porn sites he frequented. She proved he spent over $3,000 a month on his sexual addiction to porn sites. This is ZIPLESS sex. So easy and convenient. This is an emotional connection to women outside of the marriage. What does that tell us?

This sexual addiction is more common than we can imagine. The sex industry is making millions and destroying so many homes. It often leads to the actual behavior when a man feels entitled to look for another woman than yourself. There is so much Narcissism when a man makes self love here.

Your needs are not considered. This sex he has with porn sites is as KINKY as it gets. There is nothing normal about this behavior. It is a PERVERTED sexual pattern.

I am so deeply sorry for your pain and yes, we here understand your pain. I can imagine your bewilderment that a man can be so insensitive to leave a good woman asking herself what she did wrong. You did nothing wrong. This is an adultery of the soul that has cost you your self esteem and robbed you of belief. It has corrupted your home and hurt your dreams of life with the man you love.

Please, Katsey, go shopping for a new dress and some lovely earrings. Get a tanning booth program and get to the gym. Reward yourself with good treatment. Then put on your warpaint and confront this behavior. You deserve better than this and it will not get better unless you confront.

1aokgal
9th July 2008, 06:23 AM
Dear Raymond......

You are always a welcome presence and have just the best observations.
I realize in my postings as I have been told by a number of posters.... that I am ruthless, brutal and direct to the point and somewhat intolerant of the ones who post who seem to lack honesty about their own reponsibility in some problems. Perhaps my idealism is still so great that I believe a great love can often overcome the nuts and bolts of everyday stress and problems.

Most of us here are so fortunate. We don't struggle with terrible illness or the loss of of our family in an accident. We all strive to be happy and to contribute the best we can to the overall success and well being of a significant other. We aren't posting on a Cancer site. Thank God, for this.

I guess I dont understand people who live together for years without marriage and have children in some pretty unhealthy situations. We see some of the letters here and I wonder where are the moral barometers or the social responsibility that many should have? No wonder these relationships hit the skids as there seems so little value placed on the responsibility we have to parent our children with integrity and keep the marital vows we made.

Okay, we live in a world that is serially monogomous. We have one mate at a time. Or at least most of us here. Just by virtue of the fact we live longer, most of us will not live happily ever after. I wish we could all board a time machine and return to a world that is kinder. I wish we all might know our neighbors and mind their cat when they go away. I wish I could bring over fresh cookies and get invited for a glass of punch at Xmas time.

Most of us no longer live on that kind of street and most of us live far from family. Did you like the old films where 25 relatives sat at a holiday table? Oh, I wish you and I were there together all of us at the long table and had a full and enriched life.

Dear All....
Don't give up. I won't give up. I still think most of you can achieve a happier life with more effort and more faith.

Raymond, you told us some of the sad things that happened in your life and how hard you work at keeping your committments. Let's all commit to making one positive change in ourselves and see if something gets better overall. Call it a challenge. This is plain old cause and effect.

Bye for now

1aokgal
9th July 2008, 07:03 AM
Dear Dakereb.....

Oh, you did pick one of my real jewel intolerant, brutal and to-the-point, opinionated epistle, didn't you?

I am SO guilty of all the advise in my post that you repeated here.

Dakereb, I am so glad you checked the "Nether" area and it is not only THERE but still INTACT.

WHEW!! you had me worried about the ATROPHY part of the admonition. I told you that it is medically true that good sex will extend one's life. The problem are these

1. To get it
2. To get it often enough to remain healthy
3. To be able to feel the contentment and peace that intimacy and loving can bring to each man and woman visiting this forum.

You will never get the TRIPLE BANGER I spoke about if you have not solved these three problems. So let's talk about
1. to get it.

You sound like an intelligent sweet smelling and kind man who has a real admiration for the woman you has cut you off. Your long range loyalty is you want to see her through ill health and a surgery that is due.

Now, I do not know what surgery this might be but perhaps there is a link to the overall problem in how she feels about her femininity. Part of the intimacy in marriage is the loyalty that one feels when one partner is facing a crisis. That is love without equal to give as a gift, your loyalty and presence, to see another through a health challenge. You are a fine man to stand beside her through this stressful time.

Would you do me a favor? Would you consider to write her a letter or two? Would you roll back the years in your mind and imagine you both as you were in the best of times? Would you put your fear and hopes for her in writing and let her know that you have a great love that has not been dimmed by time? Could you say when you close your eyes prior to sleep, it is her face you see and remember.....what moments you remember, that were funny back then? When did you laugh and throw snowballs at each other? When did you creep around and do adult things where you should not have done them? Include this in your letter.

You will enjoy to relive these precious moments and it will bring you closer than you have been for a long time. Most of us have little occasion to write to the one we love, yet the greatest lovers in history were those who sculpted moments on paper that live forever. These things you write are things we seldom say and especially when there is distance between and one has become cool and distant. That is when we can no longer find a way to say what the heart remembers saying.

Perhaps yours is a love that will last forever? It is worth whatever it costs you to reconnect with the half you still miss and the one you still mourn as lost. She is not lost..she is right there beside you. Yes, older than the girl but with the laugh lines near the eyes... she still has the look of the girl, dosen't she?

This could be the day you are not afraid of pride that is too binding and hurt that has been too much... to reach across and say..you are my heart.....you are my everything. The most horrible thing I can imagine is if I cannot be with you for the rest of my life. I don't mind to grow old if it is beside you.

Live your love by giving it away. You will never regret to put it out there. Take the risk that pride seldom allows to be the one who says it all. When one is touched to hear how they are loved the ice cracks and the tears wash away the bad memories of two who drifted apart.

I let myself dream along with you that such a selfless love as you show here will open a door to healing for you both. Go for an ice cream cone together and hang out somewhere as you used to do. Walk on the beach or see a sunset together. What if this was the last day? What if you never could have another day and you had to say it all today?
Could you say it on paper and relive the best times?
I have enough faith to think you can find each other again.

Yes, sex is GOOD for your heart. Yes, you will both live longer. Sex is a veritable FOUNTAIN of YOUTH. Guaranteed.
You just have to meet the three challenges outlined above and the world is yours! PS. Did you buy the sexy briefs?
Your friend
Claudette

1aokgal
9th July 2008, 07:41 AM
Just an after thought.
It almost seems a good idea for those who would like to.....with someone who would like to .....could play musical chairs. Then maybe at the end of the music we all could end up with somebody who feels the same about life. Well, just a thought.

Raymond
10th July 2008, 10:00 AM
Katsey have prayed for you. All true prayer will draw you to the solutions which are in the son. In a spiritual sense I know where this stuff is coming from and it's not from God although He is the one who invented sex.

Dakerab You mentioned something which stayed with me when you said I may be being selfish. I have to say with a resounding no that no you are not being selfish. Having sexual relations in the normal expectation of every healthy human. It's how God arranged it. Forgive me but I am a christian and think like a christian. In the bible, with regard to sex, it says do not defraud one another. Also that the body of the husband belongs to the wife and the body of the wife belongs to the husband. That's pretty strong language and means in everyday language that if your spouse wants to go to the bedroom you have to comply with it even though you may not feel like it at the time. Not to say you cannot take care of any business you are involved in first etc. but a time should be made and the partner not rejected. Most christians know this but I do know of two women who are christians who were refusers for years and years. Their husbands were very patient like you and as christians also prayed. One of them said God actually told her to submit to her husband in this and she was obedient. She describes it as a gradual sexual awakening. She has actually changed round completely the other way. Almost a crusader for lots of sex in marriage. I wonder if their husbands can keep up with them both. They post regularly on a website I know with hundreds of others and it's not for the squeamish. The one thing that is held up is that sex should only be within marriage with one partner, which agrees with the bible which is God's word.

Raymond

1aokgal
11th July 2008, 04:14 AM
Dear Joe Bones...

You should have an emancipation evening out with a couple of friends. First thing, get your head on right before you go out in those shark fields. Dating has changed and not for the better. You are an endangered species..a man who knows what he wants. Be careful out in that big bad world for awhile and work on personal issues first.

Those are career, fitness level, weight, attitudes, make a couple friends. DO something you ALWAYS wanted to do and never did. GO sky diving, snorkeling, long bike trip, vacation/trip somewhere, buy a car you always thought about but couldn't, and enjoy your life.

The best is yet to come. BRAVO.

1aokgal
12th July 2008, 01:14 AM
Dear ReturnVisit...

I don't know if you want a "Congratulations" on your sexual hook-up or you post because you have a conscience and don't feel exactly right? This is infidelity outside of your marriage.

Most of us on this site can understand your frustration and anger that your mate tuned you out. It seems he loves his porn images and self love which takes over the intimacy in your marriage. This is so NOT right.

While what goes on in a bed with the other guy who is meeting your needs might be pretty good, do you have a thought for the future? It seems this is some moments in time but one day you will have motel memories, but little else.

We, here, can sure understand how it feels to be shut out in your marriage. This affair might feel like a real "Payback" in a way. You might even be thinking..."If only my husband knew!" The problem is this affair is not hurting your husband because he is in "Masturbation Heaven." You sure hurt YOU by this behavior.

It is wrong. Adultery is wrong. There is also the possibility somebody from your town might see you slipping out of a motel one day. There goes your good name. It is SLEAZY behavior.

Perhaps the best thing would be a SUPER confrontation so the husband's ears ring off. See if he is willing to go to marital counselling together or pastoral counselling at your church. I don't know if you are employed or have skills to support yourself? You may be spending the afternon in a motel room on your husbands' work time while he is out bringing home the money to keep the overhead paid. So......like... you are on his dollar.

When you make a confrontation with your husband, be prepared to get single again, as it may cost you the marriage (which is not much anyway). There is a child in the home so whatever you do, forms his future. Isn't the best thing to do is to see if the marriage can be changed and if not, call it quits? You think that old guy (the lover) will pick up the slack if you suddenly need to pay your own rent?

Your sideline action does NOT make a bad situation better. Since you say you have been around a bit sexually you rate this man pretty high as a lover. Most lovers won't buy the groceries when your meal ticket husband hits the road when he finds out you get yours elsewhere. So you risk losing your paycheck.

Rethink the game, it may have a higher price tag than you think.

1aokgal
12th July 2008, 03:37 AM
Dear Dakereb...

Are you done yet? I hope the time away from this site means things have picked up in the old homestead. We miss your observations and wry humor.

If you are close to Stephenville, Texas....WATCHOUT!......... I heard the UFO's are overhead looking for men to breed little Martians for future colonization to Earth. Dakereb, why are you putting on those waterwings? The UFO is flying overhead not in the water there.
Yes, they may be taking sign-ups for their next landing. OK, have a good trip!

Claudette

Dakereb
12th July 2008, 05:07 AM
Raymond, thanks for the slap; I needed to hear someone tell me I am not being selfish. My wife and I attend mass every Sunday (we are both Catholic). She is well aware that her attitude toward sex is not as God intended. I believe in the power of prayer, but I also recognize that God may give an answer that I don't like. I think that is what has happened here. Back when things were at their worst, and her attitude toward me it's most negative, I prayed almost constantly about it. Some of the answer was that I was a jerk, and my condescending attitude was poisonous. It played right into insecurities she had because of a poor self-image that was fostered by her mother (her mother STILL sometimes talks down to her, some things just can't be changed). Once all that was on the table, I thought we'd make some real progress. That was several years ago, and, alas, it was not to be. My wife simply said that she just does not love me. She won't ever love me. She thinks I am a great guy, a very close friend, and a good father and provider, but there is just nothing in her heart for me. Come to find out, before we got married she had reservations about ever getting married, doubt that she'd ever be happy in a marriage, and thought she'd be happiest alone. But her old-world Italian mother and father had made it abundantly clear to her that marriage and children were mandatory. She got married for them, and I was the one courting her at the time. For a long while she thought she did love me, and we did have really great sexual relations, but the little nagging doubt she had buried so well came back out after the second child. Something changed in her that made it such that every little thing I did or said, to failed to do or say, just hit her as an insult. It was incredible how sensitive she was to the slightest thing. I was not perfect, but we now both know that my imperfections were heavily magnified in her mind. Instead of loving latitude, I got critical anger from her.

So, yes, she knows she is wrong to withhold sex. But she also feels no love for me, and feels like sex without love is also wrong. And she has no desire for sex anyway. I mean NONE. I have prayed, and the answer to my prayer was a better understanding of why things are as they are. I understand well enough now to know that it will never change. I have tried MIGHTILY to change it. I have done so many of the things Claudette suggests: bubble baths, dates, flowers, lots of housework, volunteering to do her mundane day-to-day tasks whenever I can. She loves that, as anyone would. But she said it won't make any difference. She actually hates sex. She actually told me that I should find someone else to satisfy that need. What a mess. I just cover my emotions so that I can live day to day. But I am just a hollow shell right now.

ReturnVisit committed adultery. I know that is wrong. It sets a bad example for the kids, and her kids are too young to have to deal with that. It is against God's law. It separates the act of sex from procreation and from committed love. But I can't say I wouldn't be tempted right now.

Dakereb
12th July 2008, 05:33 AM
Dear Dakereb...

Are you done yet? I hope the time away from this site means things have picked up in the old homestead. We miss your observations and wry humor.

If you are close to Stephenville, Texas....WATCHOUT!......... I heard the UFO's are overhead looking for men to breed little Martians for future colonization to Earth. Dakereb, why are you putting on those waterwings? The UFO is flying overhead not in the water there.
Yes, they may be taking sign-ups for their next landing. OK, have a good trip!

Claudette

Bring on the UFO's! Get me outta here! How do I sign up?

If you have read my post to Raymond, perhaps you know by now that I did try much of what you said way back when all these problems with sex were unfolding. But instead of sparking renewed interest, it lead to an understanding that the interest was never really there, not for the right reasons. I'd been trying to patch up a marriage that perhaps never really was. Wow, that's really hard to admit after 23 years of "marriage," with 2 kids for good measure. I am so weary from indulging in false hope, I can't hope anymore.

You know, real life can be so very complex. It does not always fit into the ideals we construct. I had the ideal marriage all arranged in my mind. So did she. We both fashioned our ideals on our common religious upbringing. Our goal was to live up to that shared ideal. But it didn't quite work out that way. The complexities of psychology, of the frailty of the human condition, got in the way. We both know that we both contributed to this unfortunate outcome, and she does acknowledge that she is responsible for the larger share of the burden. But I don't really blame her. She's just human, like me, not capable of the ideal. She was subjected to parental demands that were unjust, but her parents knew no better, either. So it has evolved to be as it now is. The roots of the problem go so very deep. They are entwined into her very psyche. She has no desire to tease these roots out, and perhaps it is because she knows that to do so would damage something within her that she references for her own sense of self-identity. She is who she is. And a sexual being she is simply not. She has worked hard to become one, for me, but she never truly desired it for herself. So she simply could not sustain it. Fitting this into the ideal of marriage simply cannot happen.

I heartily agree that sex with a loving partner is essential to good health. Exactly how I can address that right now I am not sure. There are substitutes, so to speak, but it's not the same. I try not to think about it, most of the time.

Maybe I should write a book, but I am not quite sure what the moral of the story would be.

Much love, to you, Claudette, for being here to listen to me.

Dakereb
12th July 2008, 07:00 AM
My wife has been telling me lately that I should take a solitary vacation this September. She's been feeling guilty because we did not get any vacation this summer due to her illness and our daughter's summer schedule. I feel odd about it, but I think I'll take her up on that offer. I know not yet where my travels may take me, but I'll think of something!

1aokgal
12th July 2008, 07:55 AM
Dear Dakereb,

Of course, I am here for you. I tried to sign up with the UFO group but was clearly told Earth women were dull and unimaginative sex partners so I have regrettabley withdrawn my application.

You see, there it is validated again that something is wrong with me. I sometimes felt that because I was a nice woman and knew how to love with my whole heart that I would have a great marriage. I also thought no one needed to shake the sheets to find I am hiding because I am a sensual woman. Well, I do have a great marriage but missing on one HUGE component. It is like the TV set without sound. It is hard to enjoy all the rest when you are sure that something can be fixed. There are so many years of effort to repair the unit but it is not in my power to fix another person with issues. There is no doubt he loves me it is just he is not going to have sex in the marriage..for YEARS. What is wrong? Tell me and we will both know. Sometimes I can really laugh at life and the complexities as you say.

There are so many things that are joyful to me as my artwork, and activities, animals and such. It just is very painful to realize that life will never be fulfilled and no one can repair another person. I am married to a very nice man but he is a bad husband. The years have been bitter for me. I am just glad his work means he is gone for many months at a time. I have my freedom to live and enjoy my activities. I don't think so often of this and find life works for me. No, there are no women where he works. He actually is a very caring person and tells me all the time i am loved. Go figure that one!

Like your wife, Dakereb, there is such cruelty in these people because they defraud a partner (us) of a fulfilled life. You don't stop caring for them but there are times when the anger and bitterness overwhelms. The thought is there at times to gut him. It passes because it is so unhealthy to dwell on the hurt. One has to find a comfortable way to live despite this empty area of life. It is a conundrum never to be solved. When one has reached a certain point it would be sheer stupidity to think that green fields of amorous lovers await.

When one has many years invested in a relationship the reality is there is little hope that partner is capable of change. Some will decide to find a lover. I think we have all explored that thought. It seems most of us will compensate with some other outlet and let time pass. I paint and find creative outlets wonderful. I will not cut off an ear out of self pity and just keep tooteling on doing the best I can.

If I indulge in fantasy for a lovely weekend it would be that you and I in spirit meet and go up in the space ship that propels us to the alternate world. There we will walk into our homes and it will all be as we desire. We are allowed to return at will from time to time for other weekends. It is as we dream it to be.

For myself, I will continue to live with passion and fire to go about my life as a woman.
I feel sorry for him but I don't want to sympathize to the point I become LIKE him. I will always strike out to do many interesting things. Yes, I often put out to sea in the boat, the dog and I. There is no limit to what I can do or not do.

Don't let your wick be dampened by the disinterest of another. Continue a passion for living. If you fish.....go get the big ones. If you long to fly.....go take the lessons. My husband and I once had an argument because I arranged with a friend to go take a sky dive. He just arrived in town with no call.

He was unhappy because I did not invite him to go with us. I told him I planned it and already set it up. I told him I would return later and fix a nice dinner for him. What was the problem? He was really upset. So I was supposed to cancel plans premade for his convenience. He also thought it was "dangerous." Well, the discussion got heated and when I backed up because he was so in my face pushy on the porch outside, I actually slipped and broke my toe.

Right! I never did get to go sky dive. My friend called as she was on the way and I was on the way to the hospital and 6 weeks "cripping" around. The guy was a bully in that situation. Since he fails to put out I am pretty independent. Well, I keep in my mind.... no one will ever stop me from enjoying my life whether it is a walk up a mountain or trip to somewhere interesting for the day. Life is too short.

Plese do not say you are an empty shell. You have an infinite capacity to find joy in things you can do. You must find a PASSION and follow it. Do not give that much power to any human being to extinguish your joy in living.
Dear, they are the shells.

Much love to you, Dakereb, please do not get so down. I hear it in your tone.
A hug for you.

Claudette
PS
Dakereb, what lights your fire?

1aokgal
12th July 2008, 08:52 AM
Dakereb...

Do me a favor, will you? Stop being so blasted understanding about your wifes' dysfunctions! You just got a pile of grief loaded on as "she has no interest.....she never had interest......she never loved you...." You are a good friend and breadwinner, etc. I THROW up!

Stop trying to understand that which makes no sense. Let's worry about you. Who cares why she feels this way? Her parents? Her life? Her sore toe! Good Gosh...what a pile of hog wash she has put on you! Don't buy her copouts. What a selfish, self indulgent woman. Just get mad. Then start planning how you will enjoy your separate life. Yes, you are still a parent and can be there for breakfast but you don't have to enter a monastery. You have a right to a life that is full.

Yes, you DO take a vacation. You start thinking of what would be wonderful for you. Don't you have a guy pal who might go somewhere fabulous like a famous trout stream or something?

I am going up for a day to a place called Dillwyn, VA. and prospect for gold. Should I buy some chewing tobacco to go with my scroungy jeams and outfit and bug spray for that one? HAHA. No, I wouldn"t do the tobacco bit. I have never smoked. No kidding, this one seems like fun. The land is owned by the Central Va. Gold Prospectors and there are 1600 acres and gold found in the streams and old mine there back in 1840. One can pan for gold. There is also a park up that way and one can pan for $7 a day. Sound like fun!

You see I bought a metal detector last month and I am nosing around for the big hit. Well, coins anyway. I might pay for my detector in time. I can go camp on the land for a cheap yearly entry. No cruises, Sheraton, Las Vegas or glitz for me. I love big trees and beautiful spaces. I also love the sea. That's why I live here.

Dakereb, have you ever wanted to do something really special or go somewhere special? Then you plan it and put it into reality. It belongs just to you. Please do share the plans here though. I wait with baited breath to hear a good idea in motion for you. Send away for some vacation area brochures.

Her? Bet she has some dishes to do.

Who knows how to live...you or her?

A hug for Dakereb
from Claudette

PS Your mission, if you choose to accept it......is to find a free spirit guy pal who wants to go do something great. Go to Alaska, if that is your passion. My mother went white water rafting at 70 up there. This is a fabulous country with many great and beautiful places to see. Like Colorado. That place is incredible.....though it is for landlovers.

Raymond
12th July 2008, 09:26 AM
Why would God give you an answer you don't like Dakerab? You are a man in need. God is not a sadist but a loving compassionate God. Hasn't He said He is an ever present help in time of need. God doesn't kick you when you are down. He lifts you up. I may need to hear things I may not always like but not when I need something else more important. Didn't Jesus say I have many things to tell you but you cannot take them now. God is interested in your need right now.

Your wife is truly a complex creature conditioned with some negative traits put there by her mother. I too had a negative upbringing with parents divorcing at my birth and being brought up in four different orphanages, two of them convents. However I did not hear once in the convent that I could have a relationship with God through christ through the forgiveness he purchased. It was all good works which cannot save us. When I actually found out that or rather when it was conveyed to me, the healing came in bucket loads. Granted a lot of the healing was gradual as well and still goes on. We all need it. God is a compassionate God and full of love. In fact the scripture says He is love. When we love we are being like God.

I don't really have the answers on your marriage. What would I do in your situation? Obviously I would pray. After all you have tried I would probably rape her in desperation. There must be some key somewhere. The fact is that she is married and must accept that. It is no good looking back. Marriage is her state and God will give her the grace if she tries. She must know that deep down. Do you want to talk to these two women who were sexually awakened after many years?

Raymond

1aokgal
12th July 2008, 08:07 PM
Dear Dakereb...

All respect to Raymond but I heard you did it all. You are being pulled around by the nose by an uncaring, selfish spouse. Stop dealing with HER issues and deal with your issues. Do things with your kids and plan on things you can do for yourself.

If you ever considered wood working or stuff you enjoy, buy the tools and set to work on a project. I say buy a membership to a gym and make sure you get there several nights a week and work out and swim. Buff up your body. Buy a great bike and join a biking club ..they are in most cities. If you work out and jog..think about getting in shape for some marathon runs. There is great companionship and fun. It is yours and your life to make whole. That is great for you.

Let her knit or whatever she does that is more important than her marriage. When someone says they do NOT love you and probably never did they drop off my Xmas card list.....got the picture? Do not humiliate yourself or expect that cold creature to act like a real woman. It is not going to happen. If all her craziness was important for her to unravel she would get herself in counselling. The truth is she enjoys the fruits of YOUR labor and steals life to do what she pleases.

Faith is a good thing but the answer God might have for you would be to make yours a life as separate as you can. I hope to hear you get out and do your own things. If she is not working and watches the soap operas, let her know the FREE ride is now over and she best get herself a job because you have some other uses for your take home. Maybe you want to buy a boat or something you always wanted. I drive a smart red Mercedes sports car so that is one of my personal passions.

I don't expect or ask someone to love me if they cannot. I love myself enough to do things I enjoy. Many people stay married and live separately. You might consider moving into your own room so the presence of a frigid, unyielding wife is not such an offense to the senses.
That is how I see it.

You be happy and don't accept the bottom of the barrel from another.
Your friend
Claudette

1aokgal
12th July 2008, 08:18 PM
Raymond...

Spousal rape is an act of aggression...not sex. Just a note. I know no serious thought there but that is sure no sex or loving coming together. Not a substitute for the missing component.
It is also not good to get mercy sex or reluctant sex or let's get it over sex. When one has a partner who is a jerk..we need to find our own answers and happiness. You cannot change another person to be what we want them to be. So forget about them. It is their problem and they will pay for the empty space that you would occupy if you were home. You go be somewhere else. You make a busy life and let them stew in their own juice. Get my meaning?

Yes, it takes effort if you care about someone to realize you chose the wrong horse.
Finish the race on your own!

Dakereb
12th July 2008, 11:21 PM
Raymond, I did not mean to imply that God would intentionally torture me, just that sometimes what I need is not something I want to do, or is something I am afraid to do. I can pray she will change, but the next step there is she has to listen to God and understand Him. I cannot make that happen. I have tried. I am so exhausted of trying, and hoping. I dare not hope anymore, the disappointment is just too much. I don't really want to talk to the ladies you refer to. My wife would have to talk to them because she is the one that needs to make a change. I assure you, she will not.

Dakereb
12th July 2008, 11:24 PM
Claudette, I need to reply to you but am very short on time. I will return!

1aokgal
13th July 2008, 12:47 AM
Dear Raymond/Dakereb,

I won't enter in the discussion much about God wishes for us. If I were Dakereb, when I attend church I woud do it at a different mass time. The rejected spouses usually cloaks the lies/shams projected by these cold frigid people and others have no idea of the truth.

It must be hard to sit in God's house when the spittle/foam drips off one side of the lip at gritting the teeth? There is that concept again ..to live a separate life. This spouse benfits from the hard work and diligence of her partner and somehow thinks it is her right to take what has been offered as part of the "marital bargain." Her tree would be very shook up to realize she needs to rethink her position. Personally I think, Dakereb, "You can not turn a sow's ear into a silk purse," as they say.

The Catholic church does not condone this treatment of the spouse to refuse to have marital intercourse. Perhaps she would be embarrassed if her priest were to confront on this issue? The sad truth is that she has said it clearly..she has no love. To chew on that one is heartbreaking for the spouse.

Dakereb
13th July 2008, 07:28 PM
Claudette, I understand your advice very well, and did go through a "who does she think she is" phase of anger. But I'm over it. I have forgiven her. I could not hang on to the anger and at the same time stay around for my kids. So I forgave her in my heart, let go of the anger, and set about living as best I could. But I do know that I must also address my needs, and I am hoping to do that fairly soon.

She does have some good qualities; she is always there for the kids, she is no longer prone to misinterpret my words so is now much easier to live with, and she has held jobs from time to time. She is planning on getting permanent work after she goes through the surgery and gets back on her feet. She knows she has lived off of my largesse and she does want to change that. And I think she knows deep down inside that I may not always be here, so she'd better be self-sufficient.

What would light my fire? Right now I desire to buy photo equipment (a digital SLR is high on my wants, to replace my old Nikon 35mm gear) and take an extended solitary vacation to travel the country and take pictures. I have never been out west, except one business trip to Los Angeles, and want to drive about and experience the natural beauty all over this country. Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Yellowstone, the ancient redwoods and sequoias, the Rockies. Coastal cities from San Francisco to Boston. I used to love photography, but that, along with other hobbies, fell to the wayside as life became overwhelmingly busy. Landscapes and nature photography are what I'd pursue now. I am not much for man-made attractions such as Disneyworld, but I really would like to spend time at Florida beaches and watch one of the last launches of the space shuttle. I bought a used BMW 3 Series about a year ago and absolutely love drivng it. I love working on cars, too, and I did most of the work needed to get it into mint condition myself. Now it's like a brand new car, and I have my own sweat-equity invested in it, so I really love driving it that much more.

I'd also like to work more to stay in shape. I'm in okay shape now; 5'9", 165lbs, but I need better cardio fitness. Been working on the treadmill pretty regularly and I always have a better frame of mind afterwards. I enjoy a little resistance training, too, but a fractured rib and tendonitis has sidelined me for now.

Woodworking is something I've always wanted to do. I did it in high school and was actually very very good at it. I took on the most complicated projects in the class, and executed them well. But now I have no space for the equipment, and not enough money to buy it even if I did have a place for it. I did build a custom, from scratch, built-in cabinet in our house using mostly hand tools and it came out great. Fun, but time consuming.

I don't have any "guy pals" to vacation with. It seems all of my friends are "our" friends, and all are married. There aren't any of them with which I'd like to share the real truth about our marriage. I am afraid that doing so would change the relationships with them too much. Maybe when I am ready to make a move I'll let people know. Right now, readers here are the only people to whom I have disclosed this.

In case you haven't figured it out (somehow people always do), my career involves mechanical engineering.

1aokgal
13th July 2008, 09:13 PM
Dear Friend Dakereb...

The complexities of our lives, here on this forum, defies logic. The belief that we can ever "fix" our mate takes some years in illumination, we cannot. The personal trip to that point is painful. We seek behavior that speaks we matter to them. I wonder if this is a type of Autism to shut oneself from contact? It defies description, dosen't it?

What fine fiction for a Stephen King or other science fiction writer. No articles on the Stepford Syndrome yet? You, Dakereb, have a civilized union where each goes about tasks and work toward mutual goals. She stays safely behind her screen and you respectfully, avoid her space. The civility must sometimes be maddening? This is a parallel to life here. We like each other and enjoy doing things together. There is just no intimacy.

You, with your mathematical problem solving head! I bet you spent a long time to analyze this problem. The only conclusion we reach is that we, the mate, have glaring shortcomings so we understand why another would withdraw affection. HAHA. Bet we all travelled that thought path?

Most wooden people have no desire to leave a perfectly acceptable union.That would be like parachuting from a good plane. They have no concern to see how limited is the structure, how painful is the mode. That is left to the feeling partner. The problem for us to be so civil, Dakereb, is that we, who don't rant or rail, are enablers to this behavior. In our quiet non-confrontive passivity, we allow these cheaters to rob the marriage of vitality and love.

Most men won't admit to a sexless marriage. The thought is that somehow it is unmasculine to share that you are not the captain of your household who are relegated to errand boy and breadwinner. Yes, I understand most men here would never share that. You guys don't ask for directions when you get lost so it is unlikely you tell this to ones' personal physician. Women spit it out in the first 5 minutes of patient time. I recently got a female doctor and she was very kind and discussed it with me at length. That was a good vent.

Sunday, and it is a super hot day. The lawn needs a mow but I once knew a woman who mowed hers to help her husband who was older. She was 53 and out of shape. She dropped dead right there. That thought inhibits my attitude that if something needs to be done I will do it. The boy will come on Tuesday.

I like your travel itinerary with camera. I have yet to see the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, or the Sequoias, apart from beautiful photos or travelogues. Those would be my choices as well. I have no lust for crystal palaces or glitzy tourist meccas. The only place I might differ on that is a desire to see the Taj Mahal. Maybe I am just a romantic and wish to see a temple built for love. I am a cheap date who often waits for free days to visit museums. I did live in San Francisco and California long ago.

These wonderful new cameras are stunning and affordable. I love the fact we can send the digital images to others so easily. The small printers are cheap and the prints in few minutes. My new office printer prints photos on the special paper. What a fun thing to do.

The cameras now are not complex and self adjust. We live in an amazing time! I would love to go to Disneyworld in Florida just to see the new attractions. My brother lives an hour away there. My daughter was a child and now she is 32, since I was there. Time passes when you are having fun! The guy across the street has a woodwork shop in his garage and he does beautiful projects.

My house has hand painted porcelains from my porcelain period. I lived in Europe and spent hours daily doing intricate pieces. The oil painting perhaps was an offshoot of that. I have yet to get the kiln wired in the garage here since I moved 5 years ago. The porcelain work was a passion. I might still enjoy to do a vase or two. I can imagine one day strangers will scramble for my hand painted vases that are real artwork of excellent quality. They were displayed here in two gallerys. Hand painted Ruby roses on a tea pot or a vase are difficult to achieve and costly to make since they are painted with gold containing colors. The trim is all 14K gold trim. One has to pay the gold price for a tiny vial.

There is a nice studio room here in the house and I need to paint more often. My portraits could keep me in a high income bracket if I had interest in painting more for money. The other paintings are on a website from a guy in Greece who has a gallery there. Painting will always be a passion. I do a lot of work hours with the Victorian reproduction ensembles which I shipped to 6 countries. I also wear them to many events and get a lot of comments on outfits. Maybe the marriage status was the mother of my creativity?

If you pursue the photographic bent, lovely travel photos are easy to sell to painters who need a subject to paint.

Your BMW sounds interesting. I will look in Auto trader mag. and see that one. Love the new BMW sportscars in the last 5 years. Great stuff. Love those kit cars I have seen people make. One guy here had one that was like an old Bugatti. He spent years putting it together and adding features. I have also got an older Mercedes SL300 metallic grey, big body style 1993. It is a beautiful well maintained car but last year a rebuilt transmission and work around that was $8,000. I ordered the part from a warehouse to ship it to the garage with return money on the core to me. It would have been more without that discount. OUCH!
These luxery cars don't miss a gas station either. Hi-test means expensive fillups. Still, it is a joy to polish and see them sparkle.

Now I must get in the pool before I miss the best sun. Later I will grill out there. Just myself and the animals and a great day. Go see Brendan Fraser movie,"Journey to Center of the Earth." Great action movie and not a single cuss word throughout! Loved it.

Bye to readers here and hope you have a great weekend.

Dakereb
14th July 2008, 04:57 AM
I would love to see your artwork. The porcelain sounds particularly interesting. Fired into the piece, it will last for hundreds of years. It's awesome to think of the legacy you're leaving.

Back in my college days I used to sell 35mm cameras at a local store. I was already into photography before that, and had already learned the ins and outs of apeture, depth of field, shutter speed, and how these interplayed with one another. My favorite lens was a 24mm wide angle. Next favorite was the 100mm macro for close up work. Sold most of it years ago, and now only have a body and one zoom lens.

That Benz SL is quite a machine. I've always liked German cars. Something about the ride-handling equation that just appeals to me. And they have great paint. But, as you just found out, they are mechanically complex. You know that old saying, why spend a dollar when a dime will do? Well, the Germans turned it upside down and asked themselves at every step of the design, why spend a dime when a dollar will do? Mine is a 2000 323i, white. Drives like nothing else. I look forward to my drive to and from work every day. It's not too bad on fuel, either, but it does take premium.

Well, so much for our "autistic" spouses, or whatever affliction ails them. Perhaps there is a great piece of fictionalized tragedy in there that would make quite a story. I love to write, but if I can only seem to piece things together if they are a retelling of actual events. I am not creative enough to invent a story. Perhaps I could work in there the fact that we guys just won't admit to anyone that we are not the sexual kings of our castles, our ego is too frail! In my case, however, I would have loved to go to therapy, it was my wife who refused. She said she just will not ever discuss her sex life (or lack thereof!) with anybody, period, end of story. It is just not to be discussed with strangers, not even professionals. Sheesh, I give up!

If there is a way, send me the link to the website on which our oil paintings are displayed. I'd enjoy seeing them! Not sure how to do that, as there is no "private message" option here that I can see.

Sorry for taking over this forum like this. I hope others reading get something out of it, but I am not sure what!

1aokgal
14th July 2008, 08:36 AM
Dear Dakereb...

You have evolved more than I have in your relationship with your wife. While I respect him and care deepely for him I also look out for Number One concerning everything I do or handle. He is a good man and deserves my love for his care for me and my welfare but because I have trust issues I will make sure my needs are always secured financially.

When he is here I cook special things he likes. I see he enjoys the time but still feel uncomfortable at times around him. I don't want my space invaded. I have issues for long years of this pattern set by him. I am not sure I will ever say I forgive him as I do not. So there are some ambivelent emotions there.

When he is here we get out on the boat which I bought in 1999. A boat was never a thought in his head. He is usually gone all summer anf gets here in early fall so has only sailed a few times. He cooks often and we get along with no conversation with meaning. I just heard he will be not get back in August which would be the fourth month gone.

You are an interesting man and I think you would do more with your varied interests if you found your own niche outside the family activities. Your children are older now so you can plan things without that worry. About the big Benz...the doors make a quiet click. Incredible to drive...these cars!

There are many readers to these threads from what I understand. I think it is easy to see there is comaraderie here and and honest sharing of ideas and experiences. Who else could understand ones' heart except another who has walked the same path? Perhaps our lives are similar and another gains from what is shared here. I read through many posts before I added my own.

I will check if the email site for painitngs is in my past posts.
Bye for now

katsey
14th July 2008, 10:26 AM
Hi the shock treatement did work and he tried meds and came close to me, but unfortunately he is not able to sustain erection for long even then....but he has promised that v will try regularly and if it still doesnt happen the best thing for both of us is to split. smehow in the conversation he said he is angry with his mom, who is responsible....i dont understand y? He always says that his parents were very conservative. i didnt bring it up with him coz he was already vulnerable and depressed that he cudnt sustain the erection after the meds. U also rightly said that there is an issue of lack of self confidence here. I am trying to pick myself up for us, coz even if one of us is strong v will b able to overcome it. I dont know what to do next, pls help.....

Raymond
14th July 2008, 01:58 PM
I hope he has come off the porn as well Katsey. Isn't that a crucial part of the treatment? Even so it will take months to get it out of his head, but it will be well worth it in the end. Blaming his parents won't help now. They made mistakes but it now up to him to take responsibility for himself otherwise he might get stuck in the past.

Raymond

1aokgal
14th July 2008, 06:04 PM
Katsey.......

Good for you that you are confronting head on before the pattern is so set. Make sure you call a raid on porn mags and get them dumped from the house. Yes, his problem is still in his head from these deviant sources.

It seems he is a willing camper to want to make the changes. Don't let the issue go by day after day but work toward some romantic settings and it will get better. There are ways to block porn sites from PC and I think you can ask a PC geek shop and they can tell you. There may be blocking software. Is it worth it to try,? Yes. You are young and there may still be hope he confronts this habit before it is so ingrained it destroys your lives.

PS...DO USE BIRTH CONTROL. Yes, I know that is a pushy statement for me to make but 10 years from now when you have 2 kids and no sex life I do not want to read your sad letter! Take control of your life today to change this with him or get out.

Best to you.
Your friend here.

katsey
15th July 2008, 11:32 AM
Hi i have also noticed that when he speaks of sme1elses gf or his ex girl or generally gets attention from other gals,he gets really excited and he seems more in the mood and then suddenly wants to come close to me,is it normal for guys to generally feel that??? coz i get really hurt that the closeness towards me is the thought of sme1else,i dont know if i am unnecessarily thinking too much or what?? he recently spoke to his ex gf, shes married now and has moved to a diff place, and he just seemed more turned on and in a diff mood, sadly i almost feel that he is making love to the thought of being with the other woman and not his wife... and at that point all i can feel is hatred towards him and even though he tries to come close i feel totally repelled. I have also noticed that when i am crying or vulnerable ... he suddenly feels very close to me and then wants to come close. but i am not sure if this is my perception or what, i generally want a person to come close to me for me....i feel like a total idiot and absolutely insecure in this relation. I am quite attractive and slim, but this marriage makes me feel bad. Also this time round we went to stay with his parents and realised that he is totally under his parents thumb, to the extent that he will ask his mom what to wear even when his wife is around....he always looked at his mom for approval and he couldnt talk to me once without giving her a glance and getting her approval. I felt sooooooooooo hurt....i did realize that he is a mama's boy, pls suggest how do i tackle these issues.

Raymond
15th July 2008, 02:19 PM
Katsey I am glad you brought this up because this was what exactly what was going through my mind but I didn't want to be blunt if you were not ready to hear it..

When you spoke of his ED problem I thought to myself I reckon theres no problem when it's porn or when it's an adulterous thought. I don't think he has a sexual problem organ wise. I think he has a porn problem or mental adultery problem. He has learned to be switched on by this outside of the marriage relationship and has been robbed of the legitimate intimate sexual relationship in marriage. Obviously this affects you in a deep way as well. Read the threads on it on this site. The marriage relationship cannot be mixed with porn. It will cut through and ruin your deepest intimacy. Those images will be in his head and it will be like having sex with lots of others. I know you feel that in the bedroom. I reckon he has an ED problem with you because he is still bound by porn. This is what has been switching him on. It is a mental adultery. Jesus said that anyone who looks on a women to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart already. How many women does one lust after in porn? Many times it is not only looking but entering into sexual functions in fantasy land. People think they haven't been unfaithful because they are only watching porn but they have. This is the deception of it. Until this is dealt with Katsey as mentioned in my last post the problem will not be cured. He has to fight as well. You cannot do it on your own.

He also seems to have a control problem coming from his mother (and maybe his father). This is because she never cut the apron strings nor released him to be a man. It is up to him to resist this. It can be quite strong as well. I have mentioned this a little on this site. You gave a classic example of it. Somehow the two problems may be linked. I can imagine him not taking full responsibility for himself and you. His mother will not like it when he breaks that control. I warn you now. He is going to need the tenacity to do it.

Which problem he tackles first I am not sure. First he has to be willing otherwise things will stay at stalemate or even get worse. There is hope if he is desperate. Desperate needs call for desperate measures. There is a lot that can happen if he is desperate. What do you think? Is he desperate to be free or not?

Raymond

1aokgal
16th July 2008, 04:32 AM
Katsey.....

Everything you have told us about the relationship with this man gives me a "Creep" factor. This factor from a 1 to 10, and this at a 10, being the highest. I don't know why you would care if he got an erection or not! I think I would buy him a blow-up doll and just stay away a lot.
Just kidding. I see nothing there to endear him in a short term marriage.

You sound very young and it is a shame your idealism and affection is wasted on a Tweeb of a guy. This is one you would avoid in a crowd. You must have not had your antenna fine tuned when you got into this one. I say start working on your employability skills and return home to mom if you can. I bet she is not crazy about this one either. He sounds like he needs to see a shrink for all his weird issues.

Does he have a lot of body piercing or some other fetishes? He just sounds weird to me. Sorry to be blunt but there is something really not right about this guy.

You know that already. I don't have to give you my impression you feel it as well. I am not sure I see the merit in this relationship at all.

Sounds to me he has made you feel insecure and not right and seems to get a charge out of talking about his XGF and other escapades. He is getting a high out of your discomfort as well.

Dakereb
16th July 2008, 05:56 AM
He's still emotionally tied to his mother, and he is into porn. Katesy, this fellow has major issues.

I believe the two problems are related. Because of his "unusual" relationship with his mother, he has never really learned to relate to women in a mature way. But he is physically mature, and therefore has sexual urges, so he relieves them using porn because it requires no emotional investment or effort.

He needs a major event in his life to wake him up to the fact that this is unhealthy behavior. You leaving may be that event. But whether that would work to wake him up or not, I recommend you leave. You can't change him. Only he can change himself, and only if he wants to.

Maybe he'll eventually turn out to be a fine fellow. But I wouldn't bet my precious time to find out.

Dakereb
16th July 2008, 06:02 AM
Claudette, did you find a link to pics of your work? Maybe you could put them on a site like Photobucket where you can post pics without revealing your identity. I think that's possible, but I am not sure.

Anyway, my wife's surgery is in just over one week. Her mother is coming over to "help." She's more nervous about that than the surgery! Remember what I wrote about how her mother is constantly talking down to her and saying things that come across as critical? Yes, we're in for a wonderful time! I can't wait for all this to be over, in soo many ways.

1aokgal
16th July 2008, 07:09 AM
Dear Dakereb...

I hope everything with the surgery goes well. So your mother-in-law will be around? That should be stimulating for you to keep all cool. Yes, i will look into photobucket and iI do have some photos posted there.

The website has some of my pictures. Then I have a website for the dresses as I share a space on anothers website as well. I do miss the porcelain painting sometimes. I used oil of cloves painting media and the house would have a sweet smell. It is also a lost art few follow and takes years to learn and perfect. I had a PASSION for it. It was very relaxing for me. The times I loaded the pieces in the kiln in the evening was exciting. The firing took hours and by early morning it was cool enough to go in the garage and open the top to see the result. The colors don't show until fired into the porcelain.

That is a lot like people when we go through the trials and problems we don't know the good inside until we get on the other end.
Warm Regards
Claudette

Katsey
17th July 2008, 10:03 PM
Hi thanks for your responses, yes raymond he is desperate to be free,he always talks about freedom and being able to do his own things, yet he wants to be in this relation, which makes me think that i provide him something and can help him grow. he did try meds and it worked for him and we managed to come close mayb first time properly in the 1 and half years of our marriage. What you'll said is absolutely true and i agree that he has not left the apron of his mom and nor does she allow him to do so and is therefore not able to communicate in a mature way with woman. I dont want to give up on this relation yet, and leaving him might be a big jolt for him but neither do i have the strength yet and at the same time i am not sure what effects it will have on him. I came into this marriage with lot of expectations, and almost each and every one of it is broken, i find your advices effective, i surely understand that there is a co relation between his upbringing and his behaviour towards woman. Please suggest how can i emotionally come close to him and provide him the security of being in a relationship without hurting my self esteem.

Raymond
18th July 2008, 01:44 PM
What does he want to be free of Katsey the control from his mother or the porn? What is his first priority just now?

Raymond

Berengaria
21st July 2008, 01:18 AM
I have lived in a sexless relationship for the past 14 years (we've been together 23 years). At first I was angry, then, because of my hostility at being rejected, I became cold/uninterested and finally I happened upon a lover 2 years ago. I wasn't looking, but when the situation presented itself I made the decision to bring sex back into my life. Was it the "right" thing to do? The moralists reading my posting would say no, but for me the answer is yes. It was right because it makes me happier than I've been for many, many years. And I decided that in this situation that I needed to put myself first.

Will I leave my "partner/roommate" of 23 years? Probably, since he refuses to go to counselling, refuses to acknowledge that our lack of sexual intimacy is a problem and has actually told me to seek sex outside of the relationship. And even though I thought I was only missing sex I discovered that I what I was really looking for was intimacy and affection. With the new man in my life I found that -- and love too --and I won't give that up for anything on the planet.

Leave when you can. No one should live without physical intimacy. It's an important part of adult love. Without it, you're a good friend. With it you're a loving partner.

1aokgal
21st July 2008, 03:53 AM
Berengaria...

No one can know what destruction of one's personality takes place until they have lived in a cold, indifferent and sexless life. It erodes ones' confidence and you find yourself taking the blame for what is not your fault. Maybe if you were this or that you say...my partner will want to be with me.The truth is the problem is not about you at all.

I have you beat by a year..15 years... and the future will be the same. You found a lover who cares for you and it may develop...good for you!
No one can know until they walk the same path how it hurts to live such a lonely life. I hope that it goes well for you.

Bambar
21st July 2008, 11:24 PM
Berengaria

Nobody has the right to judge what you do as being immoral. Your "infidelity" towards your husband is certainly no worse than his neglect of your need for intimacy & affection & you make no mention of your lover having commitments to anyone apart from you.
Most of us who use this site will be green with envy at your happy release from the prison we share.

You have already served a long sentence of indifference & damage to your ego & self esteem. Now is the time to revel in your freedom. Good luck to you.

Bambar
21st July 2008, 11:43 PM
Confused.com

If you have read even a tiny portion of the posts on this site you will know that we have all joined a huge club of unwilling members. Unlike many of us, you have had the courage to decide to move on from your sterile & destructive relationship despite the emotional damage it has caused you. Stories like Berengaria's give us all hope that we have the ability to overcome the feelings of loneliness, resentment at the way we were treated & guilt that we accepted it for so long. Well done for having the nerve to start the process & good luck for a happier future.

confused.com
22nd July 2008, 12:24 AM
Hi Bambar

Thanks for the wishes. It took a while to come to this conclusion and I must say the support from the people here is amazing.

There are so many of us out there who are going through and hats off to their courage!!!...I think is harder to stay on like this.

I made the decision for both me and my H. I beleived none of us deserve this. He is very hurt now but will see the bigger picture later!

I also strongly believe that i tried my 100% to make this work and have no regrets.

I am confident i will find a new meaning in life and take this turn in my life as a challenge and face it...

I wish and will pray for everyone out there with the same pain as me that god gives us the courage to go through this.

Confused

justmeagain
22nd July 2008, 04:38 PM
Please can you help.
we've been together 20 years and sex was good until about 18 months He then said he didn't love me or find me attractive and was leaving. He started taking me out to erotic shows etc. Purchased toys (unused), clothing for me (which he says is extremely attractive and sexy). Then said not leaving. We get on well. Socialise together. No touch. No kiss. He remains in bed despite having spare rooms. Doesn't change in bedroom any more. No erection ever - not even on waking. Says he wants marriage to last. Won't go to counselling. Suggested I find another man for my needs and when I suggested dating then cried and did not want it to happen (I have not cheated at all). Now saying lets stay together as friends and be faithfull. Just says he is too stressed. Won't talk. I'm desperate and want some love and intimacy back. The sex is not the real issue - affection alone would be great for now. Getting to the point where I just need a simple touch.

Raymond
22nd July 2008, 07:12 PM
Something seems to have got in jma. Suddenly going to erotic shows and putting things on you. I reckon he has had input from another quarter, most likely porn, and now feels his life is tame. He is showing all the classic symptoms of it anyhow, including the bedroom behaviour. Nothing wrong in spicing up the bedroom but he seems to have bitten off more than he can chew.

I'd really look into that aspect because that is what the behaviour says to to me. Seems he might want to live a life of mental adultery and just have you as a friend.

I might be wrong but that is what I get.

Raymond





.

justmeagain
22nd July 2008, 07:28 PM
Thanks Raymond

He did spend a period of time when he (I believe) surfed porn when I went to bed. He has stopped this and comes to bed with me to read. I have an open mind, gorgeous lingerie, a willingness to try new ventures, but he will not even touch me.

When I took him up on his suggestions for enhancing our sex life by erotica events, he backed off as if bitten.

What the hell is going on? If he doesn't want me, then just go and leave me free. I love him so.

Bambar
23rd July 2008, 01:04 AM
Justmeagain

It sounds as if your man is going through some kind of crisis & that you, as a loving partner, have tried to do everything in your power to help him to cope with the problems he has, but who is looking after your needs? He is so preoccupied with himself that he expects you to offer him the support he requires but imposes impossible conditions on your relationship.

A man who has insulted you by saying he no longer loves you or finds you attractive does not deserve to be given the friendship & faithfulness he asks of you while he refuses to consider any strategy which might have a faint hope of resolving the situation for you both. Certainly, his behaviour is that of someone under stress, anxious & confused, but whatever the cause or explanation, he is causing you great pain & distress.

Your motives in wishing to help him are admirable, but this is not the time to indulge his fantasies. He wants you to change from being his lover with equal rights in the partnership into being, at best, a caring companion, taking full responsibility for his health & welfare while he is absolved from caring for you.

As someone who played that role in my marrriage for 20 years, I am well qualified to tell you that it is a thankless & destructive task. Your generosity of spirit is more likely to result in increasingly selfish behaviour on his part than in him recognising your sacrifice & becoming sensitive to your needs. The lack of intimacy & consideration can irreperably damage your own self-esteem & undermine your confidence. If you leave it too long, it can be almost impossible for you to trust anyone enough to form a positive relationship in the future.

Sadly, there is no easy solution to this problem. Your partner cannot be made to seek help but you can seek support for yourself. I would urge you to tell your doctor, counsellor or a trusted friend about this situation & not to keep it to yourself as a shameful secret. Do not co-operate with him in order to keep the peace & reduce his stress levels. Remember that he has responsibilities towards you too. His feeble attempts to make you into the kind of woman he sees in pornography is symbolised by the erotic shows, toys & clothes he imposes on you. As part of a couple's healthy sex life those things may be fine, but using them just because he wants it then being rejected anyway is too much to tolerate. To me, it shows he cannot deal with the reality of the situation where a woman is comprised of flesh & blood, with real needs & emotions, rather than being a silicone-filled fantasy of his imagination.

This is the time when you must consider your own needs & look towards your own future. By all means suggest ways in which he might seek help, but do not devote yourself to his salvation. He has moved into a position where he either cannot or will not consider your needs. That you must do for yourself.

I wish you well.

Berengaria
23rd July 2008, 03:20 AM
Thank you for your messages of support, I am very touched. Fortunately my lover is unattached, which is a blessing.

The other day a good "friend" of mine told me that what I was doing was immoral and unfair to my partner. It hurt me very much and I did begin to question my actions. However, I'm back on course again. And with the kind comments I have received in this forum I feel accepted and understood. Those who have an intimate relationship can't understand the sadness and alienation that people like us have experienced.

All I can say is find what you need. We only go through this life once and even though we all try to be "good" people, there are times when you have to think of yourself first. When I asked my lover what I would say to my partner if I were to leave, he simply said, "Tell him that he doesn't love you the way you need to be loved." I think that is a wonderful summation of how we all feel.

justmeagain
25th July 2008, 04:02 PM
Bamber

Thanks for the advice and your perspective on things. You're right. Whilst I know that I am a very attractive woman, I don't actually believe it any more. All I keep thinking is that if men (purportedly) will often have sex with anything, then why am I so repulsive that he won't even let me touch him. I rolled over in the night and accidentally touched his shoulder - him moving away at the speed of light woke me up. It's almost as though he is afraid I will instigate something, but I clearly won't cos it's not easy to instigate something when you have been told you are unattractive.

It is not in me to seek affection outside the marriage. I have asked him to leave now but he refuses and says he wants the marriage to remain for the sake of the child. He cannot see that this is a fantastic reason, but is not enough on its own and unless both parties actually work at making the marriage work. Perhaps I just expect too much. It is a comfort (in a sad sort of way) to find others in the same situation.

Raymond
25th July 2008, 06:57 PM
You have your head screwed on right jma. If he is finished with porn it is hard to understand his behaviour. A word of advice. Don't go to these erotic shows. Things will get even more confusing. Sex is between just the husband and wife or should be. Going to erotic shows may be just opening him up to other peoples bodies. Nothing wrong in spicing up the bedroom but not by watching other people.

He is obviously getting fixes somehow through fantasy somewhere. The affect of porn etc. is to switch off to your own wife funnily enough. It does the opposite of what you would expect. It sounds to me like he has got thoroughly sexually confused through this mental adultery.

You are right about your instincts regarding seperating. Staying together for the child is a bit of a lie. A child will feel the atmosphere and will know what is going on in their spirit if not in their mind. This stuff does damage marriage. I see it all the time on here. Some wives have nearly been driven to suicide about it, so it is no joke.

Raymond

Bambar
26th July 2008, 01:52 AM
justmeagain

It is imperative that you recognise that the problem lies with your partner & not with you. This kind of repeated rejection can wear us down into assuming responsibility for everything which goes wrong in a relationship, something I suspect is more likely to be felt by women. You know you are not unattractive or repulsive but are gradually being convinced by his behaviour that somehow you "deserve" this kind of treatment. Like most of us, you make the mistake of trying to find a rational explanation for your partner's selfishness & cruelty, probably hoping that this will give you some way of returning life to the way it once was.

The truth is that even if you were to be given some magic insight into the reason for your partner’s changed attitude towards you, there is no remedy for this without his full co-operation. Clearly, he is trying to cling to the aspects of your relationship which he finds comforting, painting a picture of himself as a good companion & loving father. At the same time he is unwilling to do anything which requires real emotional commitment from him to you. He wants the public image of himself to be admirable & unblemished but takes advantage of your kindness & tolerance by permitting you only to participate in those aspects of the relationship which support him. By allowing the situation to sustain, you are in danger of becoming sucked into a cycle of co-dependency which is almost impossible to break.

It is now time to stop being so reasonable, to tell him to leave instead of asking him to go. If necessary, take legal action to make him leave. Standing up to him & making it clear you will not tolerate the situation will be more effective than keeping his secret for him. He is clearly confused about his own motives & is unwilling to face the reality of the situation. The longer you comply with him, the more you encourage him to think that what he is doing can be justified. You must make it clear that you will have to disclose the truth to someone in order to explain why you need help to make him leave. That should motivate him into action. If necessary, remove yourself & your child from the household, though this should be a last resort. He is the one whose life deserves to be disrupted now, not you, but anything which affords you the means to escape the situation will ultimately be worthwhile.

Be strong & take care of yourself.

wendyw
26th July 2008, 12:29 PM
Hi, thank God i found this blog, i can,t believe that there are so many of us out there. This seems to be such a taboo subject. Women who want to have sex must be nyphomaniacs is what i was always cooerced into believing. Anyway, i have been with my husband for 5 years, married for 3. At first we couldn't keep our hands off each other but now there is very little intimacy between us. I feel so frustrated, unloved, unattractive,angry, hurt ( i could go on for ever) and have no clue what to do or why this has happened. I have considered leaving him but i do love him and he says he loves me. He refuses to discuss the matter and everytime i try to initiate sex i end up feeling stupid and rejected.I have tried everything i can think of to get him interested in me, dressed up, losing weight, make up, hair, naughty text messages, nothing works. But now i have discovered that he has been on internet dating sites looking for sex! So it has to be me that is the problem

Bambar
26th July 2008, 07:50 PM
wendyw

If you have time to read many of the posts on this site you will come to understand that you are NOT the problem. You are being made to feel like that because you are attached to a man who refuses to discuss the matter & leaves you to flounder in a sea of despair & confusion. Like many women, you assume responsibility for something which is out of your control, taking the initiative in making changes which you think might win him over. He, on the other hand, keeps you at his beck & call by saying he loves you while treating you with contempt.

He may have become bored with the responsibilities & routines of being half of a couple & hanker after the single life. He may be going through some kind of personal crisis & want to make a new start, but he is not prepared to forgo the home comforts you provide. You know that this is not the behaviour of someone who loves you, & we all understand how difficult it is to accept that the man who once could not bear to be parted from you is now utterly indifferent to your needs.

Please do not allow yourself to be conned into staying in such a sterile & destructive relationship. If your partner is willing to seek professional help for your relationship then there is some hope for its survival. A vague agreement to do that when he feels the time is right is not good enough. You need swift & concerted action, not an empty promise which merely puts off his need to face the reality of the situation & keeps you hanging on with false hopes.

Many of the veterans on this site have tolerated a situation like yours until it is too late to seek happiness elsewhere. They are left with the legacy of shattered self-esteem, playing the role of servant to a partner they have grown to despise. Please do not join that unhappy band. You are worth more than that.

Lok after yourself. He won't.

ashyah
27th July 2008, 10:05 PM
I lived in a sexless marriage for 21 years with the last 2 1/2 separated. Without counting the years that we lived in same house but, him sleeping in a different bedroom.

Unlike some of you that had a honeymoon I never did. I should have seen the signs when this man didn't call me during the week.

We had intimacy every 6 months in the beginning. And no show of affection verbally or physically from him in between those times. Then it went to once a year then every 4 years. I always initiated. He would finish his act once then turn over and go to sleep. Many times he came to bed after I fell asleep.Or he would just come and turn the other way. I cried quietly on my side of the bed.

This affected every aspect of my life. Towards the end I tried my best. Cooking his favorite meals and finding new ways to please him sexually. I even became a hygiene freak making sure that I didn't smell bad.

He responded to a certain point. But, when he did it was more for his own satisfaction.

I left him one day in the middle of the afternoon. This happened after he told me that he wasn't sure if he loved me or not. When I confronted him about it he said he loved me with the love of the Lord.It has been 2 1/2 years since our separation and he has not called me once about it. I have called him in the past he just wasn't responsive.

I don't know what is wrong with him. He was always very private with his thoughts when it came to me.What baffles me is that he is just not interested in anything except a friend that he has and his people at his church. He has never held down a real job.

I took on all the responsibilites of the home. I felt that he wasn't capable. I felt that maybe he was sick. I just couldn't see this man just being so uncaring for me. I have been left with no money, no self esteem. I stayed for too long. Mostly for our daughter. Now, she says that it probably would have been better for her if we had not lived together.