Going round in flaming circles!

[jools]

Hi everyone. Here I am almost a year to the day of joining this forum and I really thought things had improved for me and my H?but now I?m not so sure. A recent emotional problem for our elder daughter has really taken its toll on him and he?s been ?numbed? (his word) by it to the point that he?s become anxious. Compounded with this, his business is in crisis. Not a good time generally. I?m pretty stressed with it all too. Anyway, I thought I?d invite old friends round for company, as a bit of a distraction.

Him and the other bloke got drunk and were talking loudly in the kitchen. My friend listened to their conversation (yes, wrong i know!) and reported back to me that they were discussing us. She was stunned as she heard her H saying he?d had enough and wanted to leave her and then generally just slagged her off. My H also expressed a desire to get away from everything and just leave. That actually didn?t surprise me bearing in mind the extreme stress he?s been under. But what did upset me is that he went on to say that he?d lost his feelings for me and ?it? just wasn?t there anymore. I heard this last part for myself as I went to the kitchen to see what was going on and could clearly hear from outside. Unfortunately, my elder daughter (on the stairs) also heard. What a horrible bloody night!

My friend?s H drove off in the car (drunk!). We all got to bed about 3.30am. I had about 2 hours sleep. The drunk H returned this morning to collect his W and daughter. My H has refused to talk about it today ? other than look upset. He says he doesn?t know what to think. He said he doesn?t want to talk yet. This whole thing keeps going round in circles (every April!). I know there?s nothing anyone on this forum can do to ?fix? us, but I just wanted to express myself. Sometimes it?s like everything?s alright?but then we seem to just be limping along. Do I let him continue feeling that he?s lost something so important from his life? What?s the answer? He seems terrified at the prospect of leaving and all that that would entail. And he gets angry when I ask whether we would both be better off with new partners. He says it?s not about that? but I said that if we separate that would be the logical next step. When he's going through a good patch he will reassure me that he is happy with me and wants to stay married. I don?t understand him. Oh God!!!

Jools.
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[hoxton]

Jools,

I am sorry to here your going through a rough time, I do know what you mean it is like two steps forward and one step back, Everytime you think things are gonna be ok there is always something else to kick you in the nuts.......... excuse the phase,
What is it that he thinks he is missing out on ?
And it looks like your friends have an even bigger problem on their hands...........

Try and be strong, I hope things work out,

Amanda. x

[Helen]

Jools,

It does sound (to me) as though your husband is blaming you for the problems in his life. Perhaps he needs help to seperate what is going on into manageable pieces? His business is in crisis. Not only that, but there are marital problems too. He seems to be bundling everything together yet they are separate problems in my view. His desire to get away is natural. He wishes he could run away and the problems would somehow disappear. He needs to understand - they will not go away because his own guilt will more than likely amplify them. It sounds as though he has tried a form of escapism in his own mind and this has made things worse.

First, he needs help to understand that yes, he has problems but they are NOT linked. Second, he needs help to deal with the problems at hand. The issues between you and him are not insurmountable. You love him, after all and you are here to help him in any way you can. I would just tell him this. Yes, he has work problems - perhaps it is time to bring in an expert in business strategy? This is a suggestion, nothing more. My other suggestion? Park your marital problems for the moment and focus on helping him with his business problems.

Other than that, counselling is the way forward for both of you when it comes to your marital difficulties. His business problems you cannot help with, other than being generally supportive and I would let him know this. You are there for him through thick and thin. You LOVE him - tell him this and tell him it doesn't matter about lifestyle, income (for the moment) anything. You want to help him.

Incidentally, running away is never the answer. It does sound to me as though your husband needs some help to get through this - perhaps tranquilisers or beta blockers - something. Your husband should see his doctor asap, in any case.

Blaming you for your marital problems and other difficulties will get him nowhere. I am guessing your husband knows this. He needs more practical help than you can offer. I suggest he takes steps to obtain this help as soon as he can.


Helen

[jools]

Thanks for the replies, folks! I am always very supportive of my H. He says i'm his best friend in the whole world BUT I hate the thought that his loss of feelings (desire for me) have caused him so much pain and sadness. In his good moments he jokes that he's going thro the male menopause. If you read my first posting on my original thread "Can you get back feelings" it sums up what's gone on. I kind of blame myself for this as I emotionally neglected him for years. He still seems angry about this. I've put off the idea of counselling. Maybe i'm too British, but I don't have much faith in them. The thought of some stranger poking their noses in! How can some counsellor give my H his desire back? Or maybe they'd just get him to accept things. Or maybe they'd tell him to leave. I don't know!

I agree with you Helen when you say that if he left he'd be miserable. His guilt would pull him down to new depths of depression - I know him. But I also hate the thought of him being trapped here because of guilt! It's like a no win situation. And how long do I put up with this? It's got to end. My health can't take much more. All my work clothes have gone too big on me - people are noticing. And I haven't even got weight to lose (not good!).

My friend rang tonight to say she's thrown her H out. Kids all in tears etc. Oh God I do NOT want that! Emotionally I'm struggling to hold this all together (struggling being the operative word!)
Thanks for your replies
Jools. XX
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[Helen]

Jools,

I have been through counselling on my own several times. What I would say to you is counsellors tend not to poke their noses in. Instead, they invite you to find answers on your own and really good counsellors offer different ways of looking at things. You have nothing to lose in trying counselling. You have hung on for far longer than most would on your own and I would suggest that maybe it is time for outside help. Whether you walk that path is, of course, up to you...but, as stated, you have nothing to lose.


Helen

[Kate]

Dear Jools,

I am sorry to hear that you are going through tough times again. It sounds as if you have both got a lot of stress at the moment and that puts pressure on any marriage.



It must be pretty hurtful to hear your husband discussing your marriage with a friend, but I suspect that the drink had a lot to do with that, and the two of them ended up egging each other on with moaning.



You said that you know none of us here can fix it and you just wanted to come here and express yourself. As I read the end of your posting you are talking about the questions you have been asking your husband, it seems to me that you are busy trying to find solutions. Perhaps he doesn’t want solutions right now, but support and understanding of where he is, as Helen has suggested. These are hard to give when you yourself are hurting and longing for some sign of affection and reassurance, but I think that one of the most powerful things we can give our husband or wife when things are tough is acceptance and understanding. Sometimes one of us ends up doing 100% of the giving for a while.



I am sure that you are the best and most precious thing that he has, even if he isn’t telling you that right now.



Kate

PS wrote this while you and Helen were posting again, so I hadn't read your last posting. Take care of yourself, perhaps you could see the doc yourself and get some support there.

[jools]

Well he spoke tonight...under gentle pressure from me. Asked how he felt...just said "sh**". Having seen him in the past, I am certain that he's depressed right now. He said that he isn't happy with me. I asked him what sort of future would make him happy. He said, "I can't see a future. I can't see further than this table top at the moment". OK, so he's depressed...but that doesn't make everything alright between us. What if he is constantly feeling unhappy with me? And if he can't come up with an alternative - what am I supposed to do about it?

Think Helen's right. As much as it goes against the grain I am considering RELATE. But would there be any point taking a depressed person along to a counsellor? I suspect not. And how can you treat the depression without addressing the perceived cause? And so it goes on!!!!! Yep! I'm about ready for the loony bin! Well, I suppose i'd better TRY and sleep as i'm back in work tomorrow.
Thanks for your time ladies...it REALLY helps! Should I just accept that i'm in an unworkable marriage cos he's lost his feelings for me and is unhappy? :( Jools. XX
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[Helen]

Jools,

I would have aksed him what is it about me that is making him unhappy... If you didn't ask, I am not blaming you... I think sometimes a counsellor can get to the bottom of a problem, even if it is depression. But I suspect your husband's problems are bigger than depression. I think depression is a factor. But so is stress and pressure...

I would try it. It is an an unknown and, as stated, you have absolutely nothing to lose...

Helen

[jools]

I would have aksed him what is it about me that is making him unhappy I have asked - many times. He just says he's not happy with the way things are between us. i.e.) Due to my years of rejection he just "shut off". By the time I got my wake-up call it seemed like he was unable to get back those feelings (hence the title of my first thread). There was a lot of anger and mistrust of me - initially. Like, how did he know I wasn't only doing this to get him back then things would get back to normal? But that was three years ago. He knows by now that I really do love him but he feels that it's just gone for him - well certain feelings anyhow.
Part of me is scared that a counselor might just strengthen his feeling that this is unresolvable. But I can't go on like this. Why can't we all live our lives in retrospect? Better get ready for work now. Check in later.
Love Jools. X
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[hoxton]

Hi Jools,
Just been reading the posts.

It sounds (to me) like you have been working really hard at your marraige and your H has still not got back those feelings, He may well be depressed and I am sure you are the best thing that has ever happened in his life, But I think counciling could be a really good thing now even if they reinforce his feelings of him not being happy with you maybe in the long run it will still be for the better. And it will also give you time to work on yourself because as much as you can love your H and maybe for a while you have to put in the extra mile or so, but it is really hard doing all the work especially when you are getting very little back, I really feel for you.
It is soul destroying being in a relationship day after day week after week with someone who does not love you in the way you feel you need, It is all great being his best friend but you deserve more than that,

Dont get me wrong I am not saying sod him but he need to know this relationship is not just about how he feels what does he think this is all doing to you ?

We all have the right to be happy and we should all try to give our all to our marraige and if there is any chance of saving it then we should try, I just feel like you said in your earlier post " you cant go on like this " you have to know when you are beating a dead horse, ( I think that's the saying )

I really do hope you and your H can work through this as it is clear that you love him very much and he obviously thinks the world of you he has just somehow got lost on the way,
But you need to look after yourself as well, you said your clothes are falling off you and you dont have the weight to lose, See you need to start looking after yourself, he is obviously deppressed has he taken any antidepressants if not maybe he should think of it or he should go and see a councilor even on his own if he feels that's what he needs to do, But with the way things are going he is not only gonna destroy himself he will destroy his marraige and proberly the best person in his life,

Take care and good luck,

Amanda. x

[Helen]

Jools,

I agree with Hoxton. Maybe counselling will reinforce his feelings. But you have been struggling on your own for so long that maybe it would be a good thing. Perhaps knowing that the two of you are on the brink of a precipice will make him realise what he stands to lose. You have been fighting on for a long time and I suspect his knowledge that you are willing to fight so hard for him is, perhaps, something he is taking for granted? Maybe you should consider stopping the fight? As stated, maybe then he will come to his senses and realise himself how much he loves you.

I would look at counselling as something that will help you rather than your marriage. For the moment, anyway...


Helen

[jools]

Yes, thanks all. I've got lots to consider.Today was hard. Nearly didn't go to work, but forced myself. I rang my doctor to get an appointment but she's booked for the next 2 weeks. I didn't want anyone else as i've discussed this with her before so i'll wait. I've also decided that I should wait till he's less stressed before getting him to counselling, or it might just be perceived as yet another pressure. Ideally I need to emotionally detatch, for my own sanity...but it's hard! Oh for a boring predictable bloody life! Do you know i've even started thinking about what I should join to heighten my chances of meeting desirable men; cos I know that if the worst happens i'll need a replacement quickly to save my sanity. Though I know that in reality it wont be that easy. Truth is, I don't want to start again. I've got the one I want...just not sure whether he wants me. Thanks for being there, folks, and listening.
Jools. XXX
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[helenrw200]

Jools

I'm sad to hear that things have taken a downturn,after all the effort you put in this time last year I hoped that things had gotten better for you.

Trouble with alcohol and depression when put together is they have a horrible way of distorting things and bringing to the forfront thoughts that may have been passing irritations and turning them into major issues.

As you know I've suffered major clinical depression for years and at times everything is a big deal and some days I just want to run away and hide, rid myself of all responsibilities ( kids, partner, even the dogs ! ) and get some peace. If your H is stressed through work as well he may be lumping all this together and feeling trapped, not fair on you I know, but you're an easy target to strike out at.

It seems that your H is going in yearly cycles, did something happen in April , in his past ,that triggers this ?

Counselling is a good idea, and if your H won't go, try it for yourself, it's at least someone impartial to talk to, and can bolster your own self confidence, making everything else a little easier to cope with.

It must have been awful for you to overhear your H saying those things to his friend, but alcohol can loosen tongues and distort truths , if he is still saying the same things now however it may be time to fight back a little. You've been an understanding and supportive wife, and I know that apart from loving him, you felt you owed him that for your " withdrawal " in the past , but it really is time to start thinking of yourself a bit, you no doubt have your own problems for which you sometimes need the support of a loving partner, or at least someone willing to listen.

I hope things get better for you.

Helen ( RW ) x

[jools]

Thanks Helen
Yes something did happen 3 years ago in April. He had his prostate removed (due to prostate cancer). That left him impotent for a while and extremely low. Leading up to the op. was when the sh** hit the fan and he really blasted me for all the years I didn't want to know. I deserved it too! He said then that he didn't want to bother anymore anyway and the shutters went up. We've made small progress. Some sex has resumed (good too) but not really intimate...eye contact kisses etc. He's not really feeling it and it's this that's tearing him up and making him so unhappy. Trouble is it might be too deep rooted now to change. I sometimes wonder if he's hanging on waiting for me to accept that it's hopeless and set him free. When he's less depressed he seems more positive about us...but I don't know the extent of all of this. I reckon that for a man to lose sexual desire seems to be a much bigger deal than for a woman (generally speaking). Anyway...I dunno is all I can say! :o
Jools. X
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[helenrw200]

Yeah it does doesn't it ? Men see their sexual desire as proof of their masculinity, when it ebbs ( which isn't unusual after prostate cancer ) their whole world becomes distorted. Women sometimes suffer the same sort of feelings after a hysterectomy or mastectomy ( loss of femininity, sexual desire etc ) but from the people I know who've been in that situation, not to the same extent.

I still think your H's depression is the root of all these negative feelings he's having, but if as you say he won't admit it, or seek help, it's hard to know what to suggest.

Waiting for you to "set him free " is an admission that he doen't feel in a position to take responsibility for his actions, which probably means he doesn't feel capable of trusting his own instincts right now. Again, depression can have that effect.

I think if I were you, i'd maybe start to pay more attention to your own needs for now, you've tried and there isn't a great deal more you can do ( you sure as hell can't keep going through the same old thing every April ! )

Deep rooted fears and problems are treatable, but he has to want the help, and until he admits it there is really nothing you can do. You can't make someone value you either, they either do or not and it sounds as if your h simply doesn't.

If you can't get him to go to counselling ( and they do see patients with depression )at least try it yourself, it's somwhere you can get your own feelings out in the open, and it does help you cope.

Take care Jools

Helen xx

[jools]

Thanks for replying, Helen. It means so much to me?.especially as you always give me such good insight into this depression thing. I think we?re on the same wavelength today, cos I?ve decided to start concentrating on ME and stop trying to ?fix? him. I?m gonna take more responsibility for my own activities without waiting to see what he wants to do. I?m gonna stop checking how he feels. But above all I really have to STOP feeling so bloody guilty about his sadness. Now this is my new resolve (as of this afternoon). I?m not stupid; I know that by tomorrow I might be an insecure gibbering heap again?but I shall persevere. When I weaken I shall just focus on all the things about him that really annoy me ? just so I can feel cross instead of sad.

I still think your H's depression is the root of all these negative feelings he's having,

Now that's the 64 thousand dollar question. If you're right then it's really hopeful. But if the depression has been caused by the lack of feeling then I could be stuffed. Ah well, we'll see. All the best, Helen. You're a good cyber buddy to have!
Jools. XXXX
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[helenrw200]

Hi Jools, and thanks.

If you look at the way your H is behaving from a purely objective point ( not easy when you have an emotional involvement ) then you can take a look at the facts. He had prostate cancer , lost his libido,was probably scared for his life and then scared for his masculinity and all that at a time when you say yourself your interest in sex etc was at a low ebb, then things become clearer.

I don't know which came first , the depression or his subsequent problems, but it seems ( at least for now ) safe to assume that the physical side of things caused the negative feelings he's having now. Now this would be fairly easy to address, but, and it's a big but, as you say he won't look for treatment ( he may see depression as a weakness , many men do ), so I think you're doing the right thing by looking after yourself a bit for now, let him know the offer of support is there and you're not willing to throw everything away, also that you're in no way willing to make a decision regarding your marriage for him. I think the rest has to come from him.

You have no reason to feel guilty ( not that that will stop you I know ! ),you went through a rough patch yourself and let things in the marriage coast, but you've more than made up to him for that, look at all the trouble you went to to try to find a remedy to help his depression when he wasn't willing to do anything about it himself. You woke up and realised that your marriage was in danger of slipping away and that you loved him, and then did everything in your power to resolve things and make them right again. I can't see how much more you could have done.

His lack of intimacy towards you ( kissing, eye contact etc ) is hurtful, I know, going through a similar thing with my partner right now, but I reckon it's a way of holding back on their part, sex is easy to give but intimacy is so much harder if you're feeling unsure of yourself. It's horrible but once you start holding that part of you back, it's incredibly diffcult to get back to where it becomes natural again.

Anyway, I'm glad that you've decided to try to put yourself first, I think for now it's pretty much all you can do.

Hang on in there and take care.

Helen xxx

[jools]

Well I did well yesterday. Drove to work feeling very positive and strong. Had a good laugh with colleagues and came home feeling fine. Anyway H had an important business meeting yesterday with another company and said they were having a drink after. Knowing how negative alcohol can be I prepared for the worst when he came in. Home at 10 looking like the world had just ended. I just asked how the meeting had gone (despite expression...not too bad!). He fell asleep where he was so I just put a blanket over him + went to bed. He still looked totally depressed this morning. Unfortunately i've had a day off today (used to love them!). Too much time in my own head THEN it becomes impossible to detatch. Briefly got upset. Found myself thinking of ways to "fix" this again. Trying to resist the urge to "talk" about this to him as I don't think he's thinking straight at the moment.

You're right Helen when you say he's not willing or able to do anything about this himself...but he is more than willing for me to shove possible fixes in his direction. If I said "antidepressants" he'd take them, and if I said "therapy" he'd go. As long as I organised it. When you get really down, is it best that people leave you alone...or is it better that they try to help you?

I mentioned an upsetting incident with our elder daughter (in the last couple of weeks) that sparked this off in him again. I don't want to discuss it here but it hit the two of us for six. For once I actually looked to him for emotional strength - but realised that he wasn't coping either so tried to keep my upset to myself as it was making him worse. He admitted he'd cried about it when he was alone. That's been the real catalyst of this bout though when we discuss it he only sees "us" as the problem.

I've managed to get an appointment with my doctor for the end of May (whether i go with him or alone I don't know) - a long wait, but maybe that's not a bad thing as it'll give his rawness time to settle (hopefully). Sorry if I'm boring people with this - but it helps typing here. I'm going for a long run this afternoon to blow some of the darkness out of my head.
Love Jools. XX
Edit: 3.22pm I've failed miserably. Should have gone for that run. Rang him and blurted out all my woes. Crying. Asked if he was just with me cos of the kids. Long silence on phone, then "Don't know". OK so what did I expect? Still, it hurts. I then told him I'd had enough. Told him to make his mind up whether he wants to leave or not. Long silence...continuing. Oh God! So much for my resolve! I've just made him worse! Asked what he wants. He replied.."I don't know. All I know is that I was happy and I'm not now." I am going f****** mad! (Rant over)
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[helenrw200]

Jools

You're doing really well believe me !I wish my partner had been as supportive of me , he thinks the depression is my problem and has hurt me more than once with his cavalier attitude toward me.

I would say if he's willing to try therapy then go for it , arrange it for him,things can't be much worse can they ?

It is impossible not to say anything when you're living in such doubt, I'm surprised you haven't lost it before,I think you've been immensly patient.

The fact that he cried in private over what happpened with your daughter shows he is having feelings, he's just not willing to share them, sadly that's his right and pushing him on that probably won't help, but I think strange as it may seem, it's a positive sign that he hasn't switched off completely. He seems rather fixated by what's happening ( in his mind ) with you two, have you asked him exactly what it is he feels is so wrong between you ?

His depression is now dragging you down with it and that's not good, you really do need to take a step back and do something for you, however minor and give him some time alone, before you lose it big time. He's being incredibly selfish and self -centered,and yes depression can make you that way, but it doesn't mean you have to take it , remove yourself from the situation when you start to feel wound up,tell him you're there if he needs to talk, but you're not going to keep asking, it's down to him.

When I reached rock bottom I took an overdose of amti depressants and when the psych asked me at the hospital if I meant to die, I answered yes, he asked why so I told him. I'm agoraphobic, I had to escape, dying was the only way I had the courage to leave. Don't let yourself reach rock bottom before you do something about it .

If his answers are going to hurt, stop asking the questions, right now he may not be able to feel or respond positively to anything, so don't beat yourself up. You made progress this year as a couple, if he really wanted to leave, he would, nobody would stop him, I think the bigger question you need to think about is... are you prepared for him to stay, if it means continuing the relationship the way things are ?

Feel free to rant anytime, and if I can help I will, and if you want to e-mail privately the address is helenrw2002@yahoo.co.uk.

Take care Jools.

Love Helen xxx

[jools]

Thanks Helen
And thanks for the E-mail ad. I went for my run. Met him by the park before I started. Asked him how we were to progress in this. Actually I asked what our game plan was to be. He said "At the moment I haven't got one". So I said "A day at a time is it?" to which he replied "For now, yes". He seems at breaking point with it all...but so am I! As I set off for my run I then focused on all the things that really annoy me about him, and concentrated on not liking him. It's the only way I can stop getting upset. One of the fastest runs i've done in ages!

As for "he'd leave me if he wanted to"...i'm not so sure. Not with the kids and his elderly parents etc. to consider. (Everyone says what a really "nice" bloke he is). Or do they NOT consider when they really want to? Jools. X
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[helenrw200]

Question is , if the reasons you've just given are the only things you really think he's staying for.......do you want him to ? Plenty of people up and leave, regardless of responsibilities, and I have to say that I don't think they are the only reasons he's still there .

I don't want to sound blunt, and tell me off if you think I'm being unfair, but while he has you not only sorting his life for him, but also as a whipping boy, sorry girl...why would he not be content to stay ?

As for being a really nice bloke, he may very well be, but he's behaving badly and you're having to live with it, and he isn't prepared to do sod all about it.

Living day by day is fine... if that's what you both want, but you don't,I know you're scared that if you force him into a decision, he'll leave, been there done that, but at the moment the relationship is a one way street, you give , he takes... how long can you live that way ? Indefinitely ?

Glad you had a good run tho', helps clear your head and gives you some time out . It's virtually impossible for you to take all this on alone, they're joint problems and need talking about, but I know only too well how difficult it is to get someone who really does NOT want to talk, to open up , feels like you're in limbo.. waiting for the hammer to fall. Wish I could be more help.

Helen xx

[jools]

No, you're not being blunt, Helen. Pretty much spot on i'd say! :)
Jools. XX
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[jools]

Hi everyone
Just wanted to "speak" to someone. Feeling low, preoccupied and floating in limbo today (and yesterday!). I used to think it was great working part time, i'd be lapping up weather and days like the last two. Now I look forwards to the distraction of work. H gone off this morning to his office to bury himself in his work. Stuff's going pear shaped there too.

I've booked myself a session with a relate man on Thurs. I picked a man cos I want a man's perspective on it all. Also, if my H wanted to come along at a later date I thought it would be better for him.

I think I've worked out the problem. I just don't know if there's an answer. Pre "relationship meltdown"...3 yrs ago (probs with us and his cancer op etc) he was a 24/7 passionate man. I know now (thanks to this site) that that was his "language of love". His way of communication. I just thought he was sex obsessed and withdrew. My lack of interest didn't seem to bother him or put him off till 3 yrs ago (RMD day). Since then the shutters have gone up and he's "lost" that feeling. As that was his prime method of communication I think he is unable to feel love as he needs to.

It's all very deep and psychological and I'll be honest I don't really hold my breath for what the counsellor can do about it. (If he can, it'll be the best 30 quid i've ever spent!) Hence me feeling so bloody hopeless today. He's suffering. I'm suffering. What's the bloody answer? I don't want to hold him if he doesn't want to be here. But i'm not convinced that breaking up the family will bring the happiness he needs. I know he's not looking for anyone else. I think that the only thing that might restore happiness would be for him to rediscover that feeling. Oh God what an impossible situation!
Jools :(
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[Kate]

Hi there Jools

Sometimes life just looks hopeless, doesn't it, but actually you've made some important discoveries about what's going on and taken steps to get some help, so you're doing really well. That's an objective view and you probably won't see that at the moment. I can't usually be objective when I'm feeling down.

Someone once said to me that when things are tough between a married couple, the first place they need to start is to begin to comfort each other. Somehow that can break down the barriers and give a seed of hope. Since your husband isn't reading this, I guess, I am suggesting you might start the ball rolling. If his love language is physical affection, why not start there. The odd touch, hug to greet him, nothing major might just begin to thaw things.

I know my husband really struggles when work isn't going well and I know at those times he needs more comfort and signs of caring than usual. There's so much of their self worth and identity tied up in what they do.

I know all this is dragging you down and Helen is right that you have to look after yourself and not get dragged down with your husband. Being with someone who's depressed is pretty awful. But withdrawing from someone who is depressed or telling them to pull themselves together doesn't make things any better.

I wish I could find a way to comfort you and encourage you and help you to be strong until your man sorts his head out. All I can do is send a hug and encourage you to keep in touch.

Kate

[jools]

Thanks for that Kate
The problem is he doesn't appreciate my hugs and kisses any more because, as I overheard him saying, "it's gone". I think he'd see my physical advances at the moment as desparation. Which I am! But it's probably best not to appear that way. I'm scared that this is more than depression - it's the end of our marriage. Before (a year ago) i'd seize onto the hope that it was depression, effects of prostate surgery and so on. I'm starting to believe him now (rightly or wrongly) that it's just "us" that's wrong.

I know I can't force him to love me or make him stay by playing the guilt card (could play that one...but I won't). The only chance I have is by being positive, a good friend and good company. Basically let him see what a mug he'd be to leave me. But that's so hard when I feel so wretched. The least little obstacle at the moment (like the kitchen door going over my toe!) can drive me to tears. I am an emotional wreck and struggling to keep it all from my daughters and my parents. HELP!!!!!
Jools:eek:
PS) I should also say thanks for this site. It makes such a difference when you can get things off your chest. Just to feel you've been heard. And to get objective opinions. THANKS!
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[helenrw200]

Hi Jools

Sorry, but I disagree with Kate to a certain extent, at least about the hugs and kisses etc. I think from experience that if your H is feeling confused about his feelings, and you suddenly start acting in a way that makes him feel uncomfortable, he may just panic and withdraw even more.

Affection should be a natural and reciprocated thing and if it's forced ( by either person ) it just feels false and widens the gulf even further.Plus if he rebuffs your affection, you're going to feel even worse.

I think time and space are probably going to help more and take the pressure off both of you and my gut reaction tells me you're right, I don't think he would be any happier without you and the family, because right now ( for whatever reason ) it's himself he's not happy with, and that's the one person he can't get away from.

It's damn near impossible not to show emotion in a situation like this when you can feel everything slipping away and haven't got a clue how ( or even if it's possible ) to stop it.

Is there anyone else, apart from family, that you can talk to ? Has anyone else in the family noticed he's acting differently ?

Try to hold on in there. Big hugs.

Love

Helen xx

[hoxton]

Hi Jools,

I have been reading all the posts and I dont really have any advice but I must say that Helenrw200 has been spot on with what she says, Space will do you both good, I really feel for you and wish I had something usefull to say but Helen is doing a good job.

Thinking of you,

Hugs

Amanda x

[jools]

Hi Helen and Amanda
Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that a bit of space would be the best thing at the moment; especially as it really is crunch time in work at the moment for him (literally trying to save the business). But you're right Helen, it almost bloody kills me trying not to show my emotions and pin him down to discuss things. Don't know if i'll last much longer though as I reallly am in a state of high anxiety. The kids in school have asked me why i'm "stressy" - which I NEVER usually am. Heaven help them if they play up at the moment!

Trying not to bring it up till I see the Relate man on Thurs. I do have a friend that I go to to talk when things get bad. She's been through tough times herself and has the knack of calming me. My parents are worried about me cos they've noticed that i'm unhappy...but I just tell them that it's because my H is depressed. Thank God for red wine!
Jools. XXXXX
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[helenrw200]

Jools

I'm glad you have someone " in real life " to talk to, and believe me I know EXACTLY how you're feeling, sometimes you just want to scream, shake them, anything to get them to react .

You're doing all the right things for now, but do put a time limit on them.... for your own sanity. Sooner or later your H has to realise you can't live in limbo forever. Talk to the counsellor, he won't have any magic answers, but he may be able to advise you on different ways you can go/do and maybe even some different ways of looking at things.

Once you've spoken to him, is there anywhere or anyway you can go and have some time to think alone ? I think it's impossible to have clear thought while you're living in the middle of things, trying to work, look after family, H, and stay sane.

What would happen if you confided in your parents ? I'm guessing you don't want to worry them ? You'll probably find they're worried anyway. How old are your daughters ? Do you think they are picking up that things are not right between you and H ? If you're worrying about all these things on top of problems with H, you're going to end up having a nervous breakdown.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this, especially now when things had started to seem more positive between you.Just remember that this isn't your fault, youre doing all you can and it can't last forever..... because you won't let it.

Hugs

Helen xx

[jools]

Just needed to come here as i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment and I don't know how to stop this pain. I pushed the issue the other night and heard my H say that he no longer loves me. Oh God - this is killing me. I think he'd carry on to avoid emotional fallout but how can I live with someone feeling like this? Basically, i'm scared. If I say "go" i'll be even more desperate (if possible). I'm scared of being alone, i'm scared of my girls being devastated. I'm scared of all the things that happen when people separate. I've read on here how the hurt just seems to go on.

I saw the relate man. Interesting. Seems that me being on a pedastal for 24 years left only one place to end up when he decided to push me off - the floor. There are no degrees of love for my H; only 100% unwavering passion or nothing. I wondered how he could maintain that level of passion for so many years - well now it's gone. He said he'd be amazed if the cancer (affecting his potency for so long) was not a factor. He also said that they never try to persuade people to stay in a marriage - only allow them to express feelings. If I take my H he said it might help - but it might also speed up the separation if he doesn't want to stay.

I wish I could sleep and feel happy again. This is a no win situation. Misery if he stays, even more misery (and for more people) if he goes. I'm going to tell my mum tomorrow although it'll upset her - but I just need her to know.
Jools. X
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