not coping

[pebbles]

I posted on here a few weeks ago after my husband dropped a bombshell on me (see the thread - my husband says he doesnt love me anymore).
Well to be honest, I am not coping at all. I cry in the morning, I cry at night, I cry during the day. Most of the time I manage to hold the tears back so my kids dont see, but this breakup is tearing me apart.
I cant keep giving people chunks of my life for them to say - thanks but no thanks, thats enough for me. Its the 2nd time I've been through a breakup -the first was bad but welcome as the relationship was abusive. This relationship with my husband seemed the perfect relationship, no warning signs that his feelings were changing, no arguing etc.
He says I am a wonderful person, its not me - its him etc etc. He says its not a midlife crisis or depression.

He is still coming to the house to visit as a friend and see the kids, but he says we will never have anything more which is ripping my heart out.

I am so hurt and feel rejected, I gave him everything and it wasnt enough.
I have kept away from drowning my sorrows with alcohol because I think once I start drinking I wont stop. I have never felt this lonely and alone - its awful and I cant see how I can get through it, I know I will and it will take a very long time, but I am still hoping he will change his mind and come back.

[Kate]

Dear Pebbles


My heart goes out to you. The pain of rejection is horrendous. There is nothign wrong with you and what you have given to your husband. If he doesn't feel loving towards you that isn't any excuse to abandon you. Love is about more than that. Where would we Mum's be if we only loved our children when we felt loving?

Remember that your value is not based on how much he says he loves you. You are special. I hope he begins to realise what he's missing.

Come here any time you want to talk.

Kate

[pebbles]

I feel so lost - I want to go away and not see anyone - I dont want anyone to look at me

[Kate]

Dear Pebbles.

Do you just want to hide away and get away from it all? I feel that way sometimes when I'm feeling vulnerable. You are still special, hwoever bad you are feeling.

Are the children around, can you go and give them a hug?

Kate

[Desperate]

Hi Pebbles, I am sorry to hear of the hurt and pain you are going through. I understand fully what it feels like, my wife has left me for someone else after 14 years and it feels like my world has literally ended. But you have come to a good place to get support from others who have been, or are going through similar. There is often good advice to be had here...and if not, at least sympathetic ears to listen to what you wish to say.... I have found that talking about things helps tremendously, you soon get to realise that you are not alone, not at all. Take care Pebbles, Sean

[pebbles]

The oldest one goes to his grans at the weekend - he copes by being with his friends and not thinking about it. The youngest one (13) is in the stroppy teenage "I'm always right/stop picking on me" stage. I get & give hugs from them both regularly but it doesnt help. I know I sound a right misery guts and feeling sorry for myself, but this was my life partner - we were supposed to be together forever.
Thanks for replying - I know we dont know each other, but I feel if I dont get it out of my system I will do something to hurt myself to feel some relief, I really feel that low. I know I wont do it, but it has crossed my mind. There is only so much I can unload on my friend before she gets sick of the self pity.

[Ginger God]

Pebbles.... you may have seen my post Should I End It.

Two weeks ago after finally getting the confirmation that my ex was in fact seeing the guy that caused our breakup I felt really crap after getting through what I thought was the worst of it. At that point I thought that things would never be better but each day since then has improved slightly. I know that nothing anyone says will seem to make things better, I thought that too, but there has been a gradual improvement each day. I have had the kids for 5 days now and tonight they are quite content in their own room with TV, Playstation etc. Yesterday we went for a walk along the beach and the river and again they were quite happy. They take the pain away.
Stick in with life, yes its horrible but you will get there, and at the end of the tunnel you may come out a better and happier person.

Graham

[Desperate]

Hi Pebbles...it sounds like you are in the same emotional state I am in. Every few minutes it feels like someone has grabbed your heart and squeezed it hard and like you have a pit fork stuck in your stomache whilst someone twists it...it's simply awful. You try not to dwell on memories but they hit you out of nowhere...a simple smell, a song, a photo, something you may watch on tv...anything can trigger memories of being together and happy.

I think most spouses in our position will feel pain but, I do believe the depth of that pain varies greatly depending on the extent of your love for your partner and your own ability to handle emotional stress. We are all different. I too feel like a complete whimp and am embarrassed at not being able to handle my situation better than I have. So don't feel alone.

A few things that I have found that have helped:

1. Getting some exercise. Yes, it's difficult to even motivate yourself when you are feeling apathetic but a simple 15 minute walk can really help. I do gym every day, nothing too strenuous but doing a bit each day really has helped, even if only for a couple of hours thereafter.
2. Talk to people, particularly close friends and family. Unfortunately for me, all my family are abroad and I don't have any friends whatsoever within 1.5 hours drive of me (I'm newish to the UK)
3. Perhaps a Psychiatrist/Psychologist...I had never seen one before thinking they only dealt with nut cases. But I've been 3 times now and my Psycho really has been able to shed light on a lot of questions, everything from how my wife may be feeling to why she is handling this situation as she is (long story)....through to why I am reacting and feeling the way I am...my psycho really knows her stuff and I've found this to be very beneficial in getting my head around what the heck happened.
4. Perhaps you could try some anti-depressants, Fluoxetine (Prozac) etc. They take a while to work but should at least help reduce the depression associated with what has happened to you.
5. Relate offer one-on-one marriage counseling to help with situations such as ours, which you may prefer over the Psycho...I tried both and found the latter far better. I know from your previous thread that you say your H isn't interested in trying to "get the love back"...but would he at least consider marriage counseling to try and help you come to terms with why he has arrived at this decision...if this is really his decision, it may help with closure in the future. I am one who believes in fighting to save a marriage. I don't mean that you should try and hold your spouse as prisoner in a marriage they are not happy in but fighting to make sure that this is the case and that there is no chance of reconciliation.
6. Try and get out and about with friends and family. Yes you will want to talk about your situation at times but they will probably understand.
7. Avoid drink at all costs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I made a fatal mistake just this last week on a sales conference abroad - I hardly ever drink...thought I was okay, next thing I completely broke down and made a complete idiot of myself in front of many of my work colleagues (another long story)....I await the outcome of my actions on Tuesday but suspect they will give me the Royal boot, or a serious reprimand at best.

I've been trying to find out if there is such a thing as a support group for people like you and I, somewhere you can get together and interact with others and possibly learn from each other...or at least comfort each other with a hug or two if needed. If anyone is aware of such support groups, I'd be very grateful for some directions.

[Kate]

Hi desperate

There are some support groups. One I know is called Aquila (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/whenover/aquila/). It is run by people who have been through it themselves.

There are other organisations and resources here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/whenover/).

Best wishes

Kate

[pebbles]

I've got one of those abswings that I try and use a few times a week, and jump around like a divvy to get my metabolism moving, apart from that I'm limited with excercise as I'm waiting for an MRI for a trapped nerve/sciatica which is extremely painful at the moment.
Just finished councelling sessions 3 months before this happened and stopped taking flouxetine (prozac) in December after a bout of depression that lasted 15 months, so I dont really want to start them again.
I asked my H if it was my health problems that changed his feelings and he said no. Besides, I got him through a nervous breakdown in the first 4 months of last year, we went on holiday in August, then he didnt love me from September!
I know I will get through this, I just dont like being alone, especially at night, we used to hold hands in bed falling asleep, the bed is so cold and empty.
I just dont want to have to start the whole relationship thing all over again, just for it to go wrong. I am still youngish enough to start again sometime in the future, but my H is such a lovely person that I cant see me ever wanting to.
I have never felt pain like this, I feel as if my heart is breaking, lumps in my throat, bad thoughts, I never thought I would be a single parent agin trying to manage on benefits.
I am looking for work, but the only thing I am life skill qualified for is a carer for children with learning disabilities and there arnt any around.

[Desperate]

Thanks for the links Kate, I'll contact Aquila to find out more about their 8 week programme.

Pebbles, I wish we could give each other a big hug. Just don't feel alone... my thoughts will also be with you.

[pebbles]

How can I stop loving him so I can get over him? I am so deeply in love with him that I cant see getting through this being possible.
It has been harder these past few days knowing he is off work, wondering what he is doing etc.
He is ever going to change his mind, I know that, but I can accept it. I cut myself last night - not badly, just ran the scissors down my leg - I needed to feel some other kind of feeling.
I've got an appointment to see the GP on Thursday - I'm not going to take antidepressants again because I dont feel depressed - just hurting really badly, I dont know if I can get through this.

[Hope]

I know every day may seem as though it goes on and on with never ending thoughts of your husband constantly popping into your thoughts but they really do become less and less as time passes by. The old saying that "time is a great healer" is very true. I really didn't think I would survive the pain of my ex leaving and having to divorce him but I did.

I think you would benefit form seeking some help from a counsellor. If you have cut yourself you're obviously not dealing with this and you need some help. Its by no means a weakness by seeking some counselling because I did and it really did help me to understand it all. Don't suffer on your own, please seek some professional help. When a spouse leaves its like grieving, in fact its worse because usually a loved one dies and you know they loved you.

I can understand how you're feeling over the Easter holidays... I never used to think about my ex during the week much because I knew he was at work but I always used to think about the both of them at the weekends.... I almost began to hate weekends! I eventually turned things around and just made my weekends with the kids our time for fun so gradually I started to look forward to what the kids and I would be doing and soon thoughts of my husband began to fade away. I also read books on relationships such as "Relate" and Paul McKennas "How to mend a broken heart" - they all helped so even though you are feeling really awful reading literature on all of this does help.

I wish I could fast forward your life and prove to you that in a years time things will probably seem very different for you but its obviously far too early for you to believe me! Just remember that when you're ex says its not you its him then try to believe him and that way you won't beat yourself up by blaming yourself or torturing yourself with constant questions of "why". My ex said the same after he calmed down. When he first left he made stupid excuses about why he didn't feel our marriage worked but then he changed his mind and started to say that it was him that was problematic. If he's having a mid-life crisis then nothing you say or do will make any difference and at the end of the day he needs to sort out what he wants from life - he may just bumble along for years and not find happiness but you deserve far better than this. Eventually you will arrive at the "acceptance" stage and I can remember it took a while before I could honestly say I had really accepted the situation. Its very normal to spend month after month questioning it all and crying etc... just hang in there and keep talking, thats the important thing here.

Hope x

[Helen]

Pebbles,

Sorry to hear that you cut yourself. I hope you will get help for that because, you know, it isn't the answer. We can cope with more than we realise. The feelings are painful - I think we all know that. But cutting yourself will leave different scars and ultimately will not make any difference. You will still feel the pain and he, more than likely, will not want to come back. And the scars will serve as nothing more than a reminder of the pain, especially when you reach the point where you can move on. I would urge you to come on here and let it all out instead of cutting yourself. This is a safe forum. No one is going to judge you. No one is going to dismiss your feelings, whatever they are.

I am not going to bs you. You will never stop loving this man. But I think it is important to separate your feelings for him from what is going on. They are two different things, although at the moment they probably feel inextricably intertwined. They are not. Your husband, for one reason or another, no longer wants to be married to you. That hurts. And I suspect there is a whole well of feelings attached to his rejection, not least your feelings of worthlessness. You are probably sitting there wondering why he doesn't want me? The answer is it sometimes isn't clear cut. Sometimes the answer just 'is'. It may not be about you at all; it more than likely is about something else within him. BUT it doesn't have to mean the end of you. You existed before him and you will exist after him. Yes, feel the pain but know that for whatever reason, your husband no longer wants to be married. As he says, it isn't your fault. It isn't anything you have done. Nothing you do will change his mind, including cutting yourself. The only person you will hurt in that situation is yourself.

Pebbles, read my posts when I first came to this forum. When I first separated and for many months afterwards, I was suicidal. I honestly could not see any way forward without my ex. But I got through it, as did many of us here and at the end of it, I actually realised that I would be better off without him because he was selfish in all sorts of ways. And now, I am happier. Just accept that some days you will feel like crap. Accepting your feelings will go a long way towards you being able to deal with them without cutting yourself. Go with the feelings, even if you feel like they are going to overwealm you. What is the worst that could happen? Honestly? If you feel like you will break down, see the doctor. But I will tell you now - I have been there and the worst that has happened is I have cried and cried. And then I have got over it.

Even though you probably don't feel like it at the moment, take up a hobby. Needlework is good. I did yards of cross stitch when getting over my break up simply because it took my mind off thinking about how I felt all the time. Meet up with girlfriends and have a drink and a laugh. Try to, anyway.

The early days of my break up were tough, I will not lie. Those suicidal thoughts were there for months, not weeks. But eventually, as I realised that my ex wasn't going to budge, I had no choice other than to move on. It was either that or implode and Pebbles, as you have kids, imploding is not an option for you. You have to battle on and accept that some days you will feel terrible. And others you will feel better. But get a hobby. Please. Because focusing on how you feel isn't going to help you. Trust me.


Helen

[pebbles]

Thanks for the replies, it is helping and its nice to know I'm not alone.


I now have another emotion to add to my collection - anger and indignation!
H told me he was going out on Saturday night with his ex work colleagues which had thoughts racing through my mind of him meeting someone else/already living the single life/being able to go out and spend what he wants with no resposibilities etc etc.
He was supposed to come over yesterday (Monday) to see us, but me & my daughter received a text saying he was ill (being sick) and didnt know if he would be over - if he wasnt over then he would call in today. As he has recently gotten over a sickness and other end bug I told him to look after himself and get better etc.
I spoke to H today to ask him for a lend of the car and he says he doesnt think he will be over after work today either as he is still being sick. I jokingly ask if it could be alcohol related and he said it could be as he was out with the lads on Sunday as well! So he misses a visit with us cos he's throwing up because of alcohol!
I havent told him how P'd off this has made me as he will probably shrug it off.
I know it was the easter weekend and he is entitled to do what he wants - but one of the reasons he wouldnt have stayed in is because he is living with his parents and his dad would have bugged him to take him out for the day in the car with the rest of the family. All he does is work and sleep since he left. He says he doesnt miss us - we were just routine - but what is his life now?

[willmetts]

[/QUOTE]I am so hurt and feel rejected, I gave him everything and it wasnt enough.
I have kept away from drowning my sorrows with alcohol because I think once I start drinking I wont stop. I have never felt this lonely and alone - its awful and I cant see how I can get through it, I know I will and it will take a very long time, but I am still hoping he will change his mind and come back.[/QUOTE]

i know exactly what you are going through, i have had to stop drinking thankfully because of my medication, but i'm the same if i started i wouldn't stop! one thing i thought would make me feel positive is i have given up smoking!!! something i've wanted to do for years, but my wife said she didn't want to get fat. i too am hoping my wife will give our marriage the chance that most marriages need to get back on track. she has told me, she misses me, misses our laughs, chats and playfights. she also told me she feels guilty about the O/M, and she looks at my photo and asks why did i mess it all up, but still she doesn't think she loves me or can trust me, i can't just hang around waiting for her to make her mind up even though i desperatley want her back, i must carry on for the sake of our son.

[Helen]

Pebbles,

I scowled when I read your post. Clearly your husband wants to be a feckless teen again. Going out on the lash and getting so plastered that he is sick is pretty juvenile behaviour. But he is old enough to know better. Hopefully he will come to his senses before his liver gives up in protest...

If I were you I would tell your husband that it is one thing to walk away from you but you are damned if he is going to walk away from his responsibilities. You expect him to be a father to his children and you expect him to provide whatever support is needed, without you having to go through a load of crap to get it.

At the end of the day you realise now that you can't do anything if he wants to walk away. But you expect him to do the decent thing by you and the kids you created together and, in addition to financial support, that includes making time for them.


Helen

[Hope]

Pebbles,
If I were you I would tell your husband that it is one thing to walk away from you but you are damned if he is going to walk away from his responsibilities. You expect him to be a father to his children and you expect him to provide whatever support is needed, without you having to go through a load of crap to get it.

At the end of the day you realise now that you can't do anything if he wants to walk away. But you expect him to do the decent thing by you and the kids you created together and, in addition to financial support, that includes making time for them.Helen
I absolutely agree with what you've said here Helen!!!

I'm over the emotions of my ex leaving and I'm comfortable with my new life BUT I'm still having to deal with my ex's attitude. I asked if he would come over one day this week and take my sons bike to the shop to get it fixed and he replies with "I'm busy this week"...... he then says "I'll have a look at the bike when I pick the kids up on Friday". An answer like that usually means he'll do just that "look at it" and then set off with the kids back to the flat. All I tried to do was get him to commit to sparing us a couple of hours after work, other than the day he picks up the kids, to sort out the bike, for his son. We had a heated discussion about this and yet it could have been so easily resolved if he'd just shown more interest in helping. I pointed out how much I do on a daily basis for our children and was then critisised for making myself out to be a "Saint"... I wouldn't call myself a saint, I'd call myself a devoted mother! Anyway after having to go through all this unpleasantness he finally agreed to pop over today but why did it have to be this difficult to come to an arrangment just to do something for our children?

When he left me he promised that despite living a fair distance away he'd ALWAYS be there for the kids. He said he'd always come straight over if they needed something and that he'd always find time for them if I phoned and asked him to help in anyway, even at short notice.

The thing is Helen many of these walk a way spouses do walk away from the responsibilities because they don't want to deal with them anymore. My ex's behaviour at times is living proof of this. They may well pay us maintenance and perhaps they see this as a means of "paying us off" but being a good father, even if you don't live with the kids, takes more than just money.

Pebbles, its not an easy journey to travel but when you feel emotionally stronger you will cope much better with dealing with your H. I'm over the worst and so its much easier to deal with the everyday battles when communicating with an ex.... its still hard work but at least there are minimal emotions flying around.

[Helen]

The thing is Helen many of these walk a way spouses do walk away from the responsibilities because they don't want to deal with them anymore. My ex's behaviour at times is living proof of this. They may well pay us maintenance and perhaps they see this as a means of "paying us off" but being a good father, even if you don't live with the kids, takes more than just money.I agree. A pity then that my ex didn't even pay maintenance. I do have to give him credit though. If I needed anything for our son, he was there like a shot with his wallet out. And he always has plenty of time for him too - too much, in fact. But I would rather that than him doing what your ex is doing...


Helen

[Hope]

I only get maintenance because the kids are in full time education. Is your son at University? If so then I would have expected your ex to pay something towards the household. I suppose you just find yourself being grateful for any support, if its to the benefit of your son.

I just wish my ex would start to invest more time in his children and begin to build a closer relationship with them, perhaps he will as they get older.

Hope x

[Helen]

Hi Hope,

The situation with my son is complicated. He is currently in Hamburg working as an au pair in return for room and board. He teaches English at the local Gymnasium (upper school?) and also studies German and French at uni there. Although he is at uni, he hasn't started his degree yet - this is his gap year. He studies as a means of keeping up his knowledge while he decides whether he is going to go to uni when he returns to the UK.

My ex doesn't want our son to go to uni and didn't want him to go to Germany either. He wanted him to get a job. He has been bitching about supporting our son since he was 16. He used to say things like 'I am not paying for such and such any more, he will have to get a job'. This is despite the fact that our son went to a school where having a job was discouraged because it interfered with study time. My ex didn't care.

He does support our son while he is in Germany. He sends €150 every month to him, as do I. But that is all. And when my son returns to England, his dad gives him pocket money and that is all. As stated, his father is actively discouraging him from going to uni. He wasn't supportive when our son was at school either. All the encouraging words came from me. His dad is an ambitionless, mean putz and wanted to make our son in his image. He failed. Now he is trying to manipulate him into not going to uni so that he has more money available to spend on his woman. My son hasn't made up his mind what he is doing yet but I am praying he says he is going to uni, just so my ex has to fork out for his tuition fees...


Helen

[Kimberley]

Hi Hope and Helen


I have problems with maintenance with my ex husband one daughter is his and the other isnt. Because I did not go through with formal adoption for my eldest daughter the CSA could not enforce any maintenance for her so he pays the minimum for my youngest and thats that. The Solicitor advised me to go for a fixed figure which he would not agree to and when I went to the CSA it was higher and they enforced it so it served him right. They also took straight out of his Bank account the arrears. It wasnt much but just deserts when I ask for extra help I am told his flat costs too much on his own but subsequently admitted to the fact his girlfriend has moved in and shares it. You cant win.

It is best if you have school age children to go to the CSA as a back up because if you dont they can wiggle out of any informal agreement the CSA can enforce it with a formal legal agreement.

Hope it helps - good luck

Kimberley

[Hope]

Helen, Kimberly

All of our ex's have the same qualities... they're just selfish and only want to think about themselves. They don't want any responsibility because it takes up their precious time, effort and money. The one thing I will always do for my children is to "encourage" them to do well for themselves in the hope that they can provide better lives for themselves one day. Of course the other selfish parent doesn't think about the future of the kids in the same way because they're too busy thinking about there own wants and needs for the new life. It makes you wonder why our spouses even wanted any children.

I feel its my job as a parent to help and guide my kids into adulthood not just opt for the easy choice and just to wash my hands of them. Well Helen I also hope that your son continues his education mainly because it will help him to carve out a good career. I suppose your ex could stop giving money to your son at any point, seeing as there is no legal documents making him pay but lets just hope that he continues to offer some financial support, albeit small because he does care for your son. I think my ex is getting bitter about what he has to pay the kids and I but thats the price he had to pay for opting out of being a full time father and husband.

Kimberly... its shocking the amount of lies that our ex's continue to tell even after they've left us! Its funny how your H moaned about money and then you find out he's living with his girlfriend, who's now contributing towards the bills! Well I'm glad you found out the truth in the end! Have you noticed that the majority of the problems after separation revolve around money? If we had more of it there wouldn't be half as many arguments!

Hope x

[Kimberley]

Hi Hope


Yes money is the root of all evil - my ex is very civil to me on the phone until it is mentioned then he turns very strange and cagey. He never left the house while I was with him prefering to play games on his computer until all hours and never really getting involved with the children. My mother says he never bothered then why do you expect him to bother now. He has his new girlfriend who seems nice according to my children and I wish him all the luck in the world he now goes out with friends and her but prefers to sit in his flat when the children come over at the weekend. There mood improves when they meet some one and are happy it stops being spiteful unless of course they pick some one that is.

My understanding is that if the children are in full time education up to 19 they have to pay so having the CSA back you is always a fall back. I find any extras like trips, clubs etc all come to me and they have no idea what kids cost because it is usually the woman who pays it all out school meals, trips etc. He seems the amount I get I squander well he should try it kids are expensive and they dont mention that in the Bounty Book do they.

That being said my children are my strength and my life and I love them to bits and would give them anything to make them safe and happy.

I hope you find a way to meet half way - dont worry about how you are feeling at the moment it is natural Im still up and down constantly - had a good week - then yesterday couldnt stop crying on the way home from work.

I find the forum helps.

Kimberley X

[blackbeard]

I find this thread about financial responsibility quite interesting because the boot is on the other foot with me. It was my wife that had the affair, yet I have had to leave the family home, pay rent, pay towards the mortgage (because I want my children to grow up in that house), pay Child maintenance etc.. She carries on living the high life when I am left to foot the bill and it would all be backed up in court says my solicitor!! Even with me paying the correct amount to subsidise the family my wife still says it is not enough, so while she eats steak and drinks wine every night I am lving on a budget and yet she still wants more saying I don't know how much children cost!!! Now pardon me for misunderstanding but I thought you were supposed to love children and not buy them, not that I am saying that this applies to anyone here it is purely directed at my own situation.

[greeneyes]

Blackbeard
I agree with what you say, it seems unfair when the guilty one is left with all the "perks".
My husband left me with joint debts of 45,000 which he refused to contribute to (my solicitor was so laid back saying he couldnt force my H to pay while his fees were building up!! so in the end i couldnt afford him either )
Because i was honest enough to get help the creditors jumped on me like a pack of hounds, (I was an easy target)and i ended up even paying for my H's car which his new W is now driving around in!!! after paying off a huge amount ( more than my half share i must say) the creditors are now persuing my H for what is left (who doesnt give a damn as he is living in his new W house rent free courtesy of HER ex H!)
However beware with your solicitor - sometimes they are looking to finish the divorce quickly to get onto another quick little earner, and deliberately miss out "options" you may have (which would prolong the case).
From what i understand if you are paying the CSA there is no need for you to pay the mortage as well if you are finding it financially impossible to cope and when they " assess" you they take into account the rent you are paying (she could get income support for the motgage unless the house is over their "limit" and in most circumstances where children are involved its seen as their best interest to stay in the family home)- unless of course you are hoping to hold onto your half share of the house?
The CSA is payable up until the day before the child's 19th birthday.
Its a huge pity the courts do not penalise the person who caused the breakdown of the marriage/partnership - if they did i think it would make a lot of people think twice!

[Hope]

Hi Blackbeard

I do understand what it must be like from your side of the fence, really!

I've always thought its unfair when a woman has an affair and then expects to have the family home, the kids and maintenance. I can completely understand how you feel. I do think that the courts need to have a little more compassion towards men in your situation. The trouble is women are still seen as the natural choice of parent to raise the kids regardless of whether they've been unfaithful and broken up the family. Its a shame she couldn't have just shacked up with her new lover and left you the family and home but it doesn't work that way. The courts just look at the children and their needs and its usually decided that the kids will live with the mother.

This must be a very distressing situation for you because you are very torn... on one hand you feel cheated that your wife has broken up the family and you feel angry that you have to pay her anything! On the other hand you're thinking about the wellfare of the kids and so you're doing the right thing for them. I know its really hard to take your wife out of the equation but you have to really. Try to forget about her and just remember that the money you pay is for raising the kids and housing them. My ex gets bitter and moans about how much he pays me infront of the children sometimes, that makes me so annoyed. Rather than him seeing the maintenance as money to raise a "family" he sees it money thats all for me - if only he knew how much goes into bills, food, thats a massive bill each week, and clothes etc.... the list of outgoings is horendous. There's birthday presents, christmas, school trips, school uniform... I could bore you for years with my list!!! Everything I spend outside of the bills goes on the house and the kids with a bit left over for me. Like I say try to focus on the money you pay as paying for the family not money for the ex. Lets face it if she spent the money on steak and wine all the time then the kids would be walking round in rags and I think it would be pretty obvious that the money wasn't being spent on them. I know its not easy to view things this way but I feel that the children often get forgotten during divorce and personal feelings towards each other have to be set aside, inorder to try to give the children a normal life again.

I think that when your wife said you don't know how much children "cost" she was referring to the cost of living and the material things that have to brought for them!!! Despite everything she's done I'm sure she does love the children.

Is your wife still with the man she had the affair with?

Are you in the middle of negotiating the divorce and maintenance etc.? If so then the courts do take into consideration how much you need for your new life so don't give up yet! It may be an idea to go to "mediation" because they sit down with couples and work out how much you both need to fund the new life and it makes things a little more balanced. The idea is that you don't argue and neither spouse bullies the other. Anyway its just a thought.....

[Kimberley]

The whole maintenance thing is an issue I too had the Mortgage Company and debtors on my back when my ex husband went Bankrupt he washed his hands of everything and started again. He didnt pay anything towards the mortgage ever and paid the minimum child support via the CSA five months later and only when I applied to them I still would not have a bean without them.


I agree you should not be funding her life with her new partner and should pay the maintenance for the children and make her and her partner pay the mortgage. Be aware though that if it is a joint mortgage then you are jointly responsible. I can only reiterate that you need strong financial advice from a Solicitors CAB is a bit of a waste of space and also ensure the Decree Absolute is not applied for until everything financial is dealt with as this is the final document and can finish negoiations (sorry about spelling).

I paid everything went to Debt Management - rented the house out still had to top up mortgage (could not afford to live there) paid all bills and it nearly destroyed me I could not afford to contribute towards the house I lived in with my Partner I had no money to go out, give to the children etc. It was very very hard. In the end the only way I got out was to give the house back to the mortgage company and go Bankrupt myself.

Now I cant get credit and have to live on my wages alone which isnt always easy at times of emergency.

Dont get taken for a ride financially by this woman.

Regards Kimberley X

[pebbles]

Its been 5 weeks since my H moved out to live at his parents house. He has been to visit, but usually if we have sent him a text to come over. We seem to be making all the arrangements for visits so I have purposly not texted him so far (since Sunday) to ask when he will be over next.

We have even been out with friends for drinks for his birthday and he stayed over - but left as 8.30 the next morning. No physical contact at all was made between us. He did say he was sorry for what has happened but still cant give me a reason for falling out of love with me.
My feelings arnt going away, I am still so totally in love with him and I am not coping very well at all. I am an emotional wreckage and still cutting myself.
I have tried to get myself out of the house but I just want to hide away. I am coming to terms with the fact that this seperation is permanent, but its like winning the lottery for me - you know you are never going to win it - but at least you can hope.

[Helen]

Pebbles,

I think you need to see a counsellor or a psychotherapist as soon as possible. Cutting yourself is not the answer, although I know you feel it helps you at the moment. One day you will be past this crisis point and, at that point, the scars that you bear will do nothing more than serve as a reminder of a time more wretched. I honestly know how you feel. For weeks after my ex left (I chucked him out) I was suicidal. I went through so much emotional turmoil that I ended up ill with an autoimmune disease that is brought on by extreme emotional stress. I am getting better now and of late, I have felt much better about my decision to let my ex go.

I realise your situation is different. You didn't tell your spouse to leave. But one day, you will see what has happened as happening for the best. You two had no future if one of you was unhappy and disinterested in fixing things. This is hard to bear - knowng that your partner isn't willing to fight for you. But one day you will accept that this person did not deserve you. If he did, he would have recognised your worth and would never have hurt you in this way. Hope is a good thing but not something to be held onto blindly. Otherwise you risk a whole heap of more devastating hurt. You need to start coming to terms with what has happened here. Your partner has left and is expressing no interest in coming back to you. If he sees you it is because he feels guilty about the hurt he is causing you. He is not coming back because he wants you back. And of course, there are the children. He is coming back for them too. You need to find a way to deal with this.

I know it is hard but do persevere in trying to get out of the house. If necessary, think up hobbies to help you do this. If you have girlfriends, ask them to help you during this period of transition. Whatever you do, do not sit at home and mope about your situation. This will make things harder for you, without a doubt. And find a professional who can help you through this. Please.

Take care Pebbles


Helen

[pebbles]

Hi Helen

Thanks for taking time to reply, a lot of what you said has struck a chord and given me something to think about.
I am trying to keep myself uplifted but it is hard - I got over a bout of depression last year and really dont want to go there again.
I had a hospital appointment today and had to focus really hard to stop myself from crying in the waiting room. Its getting where I feel my emotions surfacing anywhere at anytime - all the time.
It is hard to think that my H doesnt deserve me as he is a really nice person, no one has anything bad to say about him as he is honest and genuine. He has told me that I did nothing wrong, I am a nice person - he just doesnt love me, doesnt want to try and get it back either.
He texted the kids tonight to make arrangements to see them on Saturday, which I am pleased about. Both of my children are from a previous relationship and he said that he wants to come and see them - not because he has to, he wants to.
He has said he will help out financially when he can, but only if I ask for help.
Thanks once again Helen - its nice to know someone is listening.

[Helen]

Pebbles,

I am sure your husband is as nice as pie. But this doesn't mean he deserves you. I understand that things are hard for you but keep telling yourself that you deserve a man who understands YOU. There is such a man out there. Someone who will make allowances. Who is ready to settle down and is ready to take on a ready made family. I don't know anything about the background between you and your husband but it sounds to me as though he was preoccupied with himself. And the kids. You received little, if any, input.

But, like me, it sounds like you were willing to put up with a lot for him. More time will dictate if that is true in the long term. I am sure you know that irritating things become major issues over time!

I just want you to stop cutting yourself and to seek some other output. Whether that is another, more experienced counsellor or something else is up to you. I KNOW what you are doing will not work in the short term. Cutting yourself is a form of escapism. Yes, it works in the short term but in the long-term it won't. Just as alcoholsim doesn't remove demons cutting yourself won't either. FIND ANOTHER PATH. Please. And let us know how you are getting on...

Helen

[RichG]

Hi Pebbles

So sorry to read about all your troubles - I empathise on so many counts.

I have also had so many dark moments recently where I really couldn't care less if I lived or died. Still have them...

Have recently seperated from my wife and miss her so much. I have issues regarding a 3rd party and the anger is driving me nuts. Am trying to get my life back together. Got a new job which is good but feel so down that I commented to a friend that work is simply something to keep me occupied until I die.

But I have been in a similar place before and ended up doing some stupid things. Things that caused so many other people around me immense upset and pain.

And I will not going down that path again because I know it will get better. It's damned hard, it takes a long time but it will happen. But (and here is the hardest part) you have to fight with everything you have not to let yourself give up. Not to go down the seemingly easy paths that would ultimately lead to more pain and despair, to you as well as others.

Please seriously consider the previous advice given and seek help regarding your self-harm. Even as a stranger I recognise your turmoil and hate to think of you cutting yourself. Remember that you always have friends here who will listen as long as you want us to.

Take care Pebbles, keep us posted of how you're doing.

[pebbles]

It is really comforting to know that I am not alone and these feelings are not permanent, but its the here and now that I need to get through. I wake every morning missing him, waiting for him to say he will come home even though I know it isnt ever going to happen. Everywhere I look there are reminders of him all around the house. There is no room at his parent for all of his belongings so they are still here. I long for texts & telephone calls just to know he was thinking of me at that moment. I am so deeply in love with him and cant see it ever going away.

He doesnt talk to anyone and never has, he keeps thoughts and feelings to himself all the time. He makes small talk with his new work colleagues, but when he goes to his parents after work he has a meal then goes to his room where he stays for the rest of the night. His mother has said he tells her nothing - not when he comes to visit, what has happened at work, if he is ill etc and he is like that with everyone else. He doesnt have close friends.
He talks to me when I do see him, but its just bits and bobs now. He is unhappy this week with his new job with overtime issues and said that his old job is looking better at the moment. He doesnt look depressed or unhappy, just tired.
Certain things point to him being very unhappy with his life and could perhaps be a midlife crisis.
I know I am still trying to look at how I can "fix" him so he will love me again, is it my weight, am I unatractive, was I lazy, did I let him down in some way?
I had a very bad childhood and have no confidence or self worth - he was the only person I let through my barriers and I gave him unconditional love at all times and even though he knew I was insecure about myself, I never suffocated him with affection, we had what I thought was a well balanced relationship
. I think I need to "fix" myself now and move on - but I either dont want to or cant - I want him to come home.

[jools]

Hi Pebbles
I fully understand your urge to"fix" him and the relationship. I've been trying to do the same for 3 years! You mentioned midlife crisis. It might be of help to you to access these sites on that topic. There are forums full of women going through similar things. Also there's a lot of self-help articles on how to help yourself to survive this time. The main one is how to "detach". Sounds great in theory...but i'm really struggling with it!
www.midlifeclub.com (http://www.midlifeclub.com) and www.fortysixty.org (http://www.fortysixty.org). Scroll down to find the link for the forums.
The first one is the busiest and seems to provide the quickest replies. Look at the articles for the "newbies". Good luck, Pebbles.
Jools.XX
________
Medical Marijuana Dispensaries In Lancaster California (http://dispensaries.org)

[pebbles]

I really am getting worse, the thoughts are in my head all the time. How did he fall out of love with me, why doesnt he want to try and get back what we had if I am such a nice person....
I think I need professional help, its getting that bad I think I am heading for a breakdown. I was taking my son to hospital for a check up after he had an accident a few days ago and I burst into tears while driving. H hasnt even sent me a text asking how my sons appointment went.
I am going to phone relate tomorrow and see if they can help.

[pebbles]

H came over on Friday for a few hours and stayed for tea. He sat and watched television and as the programmes he watched wernt of any interest to the kids, they went upstairs and did their own thing. He never spent any time with them at all. He has been taking my daughter out for a few hours on a Saturday but that is the only contact.

I asked him why he hadnt been over during the week (he said that we would stay friends when we first split up and would still come over). H said that he felt uncomfortable being here as he felt I wanted more than he can give. I told him that I know our marriage is over but the feelings I have for him havent gone away and I wasnt going to lie to him as he wouldnt have believed me anway. I havent shown any emotional burden, I have been friendly and made my conversation light so I dont push him away with emotional guilt.

H doesnt want to take the kids out with me - doesnt want to do the "family" things together, he wants to do them alone.
I am so confused - he says I didnt do anything wrong for him to fall out of love and said I am a nice person, so I asked why he now has a problem spending time with us when he was comfortable with it a few weeks ago. He offered friendship and now feels uncomfortable with it. He wants parental resposibilites but thinks that 3 hours a week is enough to spend with the kids.
I said that he needs to realise that thing are all going the way he wanted it to, the seperation, the contact with the kids, us staying friends etc but he also needs to see the things that got left behind that I have to sort out:
the kids emotional state, finances, my emotional state, my need of friendship. I pointed out that I have spent a lot of time travelling to hospital and back with my son and he hasnt even texted me to see how he was, or even thought about coming over and giving me a few hours break from the kids - he said it had never even crossed his mind.

How can a 6 and a half years relationship just be forgotten as if none of it had been important? I think he would find it easier if we never saw each other again (like his past relationships) but I have always remained on friendly terms with my past relationships.
He had no problems contacting me when he needed to borrow my car when his broke down (and I got the bus to a job interview) but he is being so cold and distant. I know this is his problem, but he is the type of person who would rather walk away from a problem than sort it out. His belongings are all still here as he has no where to put them so I have constant reminders of him all over the house and he still has a house key - should I ask for it back?

[Helen]

Pebbles,

Should you ask for the house key back? Yes. You should also ask your husband to get some large cardboard boxes from somewhere ('where' is not your problem) and pack up ALL his gear in preparation for total separation. Then you should ask him to store these things away out of your sight. He may argue but tell him this is what he wanted and ask him what he is arguing for? Incidentally, while you appreciate that he hasn't got anywhere to put his things at the moment, make it clear that this stuff cannot sit in the house forever. You want it out by a certain date and give him a deadline. It isn't fair for him to expect you to store these things indefinitely. If he has to pay to put this stuff into storage, so be it.

I think you are having a hard time dealing with him going because he keeps giving you mixed messages. If he has so little interest in the kids, why on earth did he stay to watch tv when they left the room? The decent thing to do would have been to leave. I honestly do not understand men who say that 3 hours a week contact with their kids is enough. My son is 19 and if his dad could see him all day, every day, he would. The only reason he doesn't is because he recognises that I too need time with our son and our son has to make time for his friends and his own life. If you do divorce, I would make it part of the arrangements for the kids for your husband to see them more frequently, if necessary for shorter periods of time and specify in the arrangements that you actually expect him to do stuff with them. In addition, I would put it in the arrangements that your husband has to take your son for 50% of the hospital appointments. These kids are not 100% your responsibility so I don't see why your husband should behave as though they are.

It does sound to me as though your husband is having a hard time with this separation. I don't think he appreciated just how hard it would be nor what it would mean in reality. I say this because he comes to your home and sits around as though the two of you are still together. He also borrows your car when it suits. He is right when he says this isn't about you. He wants out because he is tired of all the responsibility. If he could come and go to your home as he pleases and take your car without worrying about you and the kids, he would. Wait, this is exactly what he is doing - isn't he? Do you see what I mean? Don't ask me why or how some men can shirk their responsibilities and behave as though relationships never happened but there seems to be a lot of it about these days. But you do have a choice over what you put up with.

Pebbles, I realise you have remained friendly with all the men you have had relationships with but this patently isn't going to work in this case. I am not suggesting that your husband become public enemy number one. But you need to try to sever your emotional ties to him - for your sake and for your kids' sakes. You do not need him in your life to survive and actually, the sooner you reduce contact with him, the sooner you will be able to accept once and for all that it is over. Once you accept that, you will be less upset and as a side benefit, the kids will be less upset too. Kids often take their cues from their mother and if you are a wreck every day, they will be too. Yes, you do need his support in certain areas permanently - with the raising of the children and financially. But the rest of it, he will not help you with. From what you have said, I don't think he is particularly interested in how you or the kids are faring emotionally so I would try to find support elsewhere because it sounds as though he isn't willing to be there for you.

As for him borrowing your car from now on - tell him to forget it. If his car breaks down, he can hire one. Again, if he argues, make it clear that your car is your car and you need it to ferry the kids around and get on with your life. This was what he wanted. So why on earth does he keep coming back to you as though the two of you are together? If he can't draw a line under this, you are going to have to do it for him and too bad if he doesn't like it.


Helen

[Hope]

Hi Pebbles,

My ex had a house key to the marital home, after he left, which I know wasn't the right thing to do. When I moved house he thought he should have a key to my new house incase the kids ever needed anything, during his weekends with them! When I said no he didn't take too kindly to this and then I had to explain that my new life is private and its now my house, not his. I hate saying this but even now I don't trust him. He lied so much to me during his affair and there's no way I'd leave him alone in my house.

My ex husband still has some of his stuff in boxes in my loft. When he left the marital home I boxed his stuff up immediately so there wasn't anything hanging around to remind me of him. When I moved house I continued to store his boxes in my loft but I only agreed to do this as an interim arrangement, until he brought a house with o/w. I don't like this arrangement but I suppose I agreed to it because of his promise to take it all when he has a house of his own. His woman has her flat up for sale at the moment to fingers crossed I won't have his stuff for much longer! Mind you Helen is right in that we shouldn't do these favours really, especially after the way we've been treated. Seeing as they're the ones that chose to leave us they should really take the responsibility of their own belongings and make alternative storage arrangments.

My ex also wanted to walk away from the whole responsibility of the children. He now does his duty "every other weekend" bit but thats about it. He's also purposely living further afield so that he can use the distance as an excuse for not being more actively involved with the kids. Personally I don't know how they sleep at night with the way they behave but then selfish people often don't care. I also think that you need to push your H into doing more hospital visits. These children aren't your sole responsibility but all the time you just get on with things and remain nice and impartial he'll continue to walk all over you. Sometimes I don't think it pays to be nice all the time... this is something I'm beginning to realise now! I know you want to remain friends with your H but I don't think its that easy. There will always be times when you have to be firm and your H will disagree with you so its better to keep your relationship to a business like arrangement so that he knows you're not a soft touch.

Anyway keep plodding on. You're doing everso well and I know you may not think you're a strong woman but you are! You may have your difficult days but at least you didn't bail out and leave like he did. My thoughts are with you and I do hope your H changes his attitude because he's getting off lightly at the moment!

Take care

Hope x

[pebbles]

The children are not biologically his - but he was their step parent and had parental responsibilities for the 6 and a half years we were together.
H came over last night for a few hours. i had already packed up some more of his clothes and he took a few of his belongings with him too.
I asked him what he was going to do with his wedding ring (he said jokingly he would probably sell it!) so I found my wedding ring box and said we put our rings on together so we should take them off together - they are now in the same box in my possession.
I dont know wether I did this because I was ready to take off my rings, or if I am just hoping that someday we might get to wear them again.
He is talking of finding a place to live now and wants me to find someone else so he can see I am moving on.

[Helen]

Pebbles,

More like he wants you to find someone else so that you can alleviate his guilt. The man drops a bomb on you a few short weeks ago and he expects you to be ready to move on already? What is he, heartless? You don't have to do anything unless you are ready to and that includes taking off your rings. I don't understand how he can be so cold towards you. To joke about selling his wedding ring? That said, I threw every single ring my ex bought me into the River Thames, along with his but it didn't hurt because I didn't wear mine for the last 2 years of my marriage. My husband was there in person only (and it turned out he was having an affair all along, hence his 'absence', so throwing them away didn't hurt as much as it otherwise would have. I would tell your husband that not everyone is as heartless as he is nor do they shirk their marital obligations by walking away because things no longer suit them. You will find someone else when you are good and ready and not just so he feels less guilty about abandoning you.

Re the kids - marriage does, to some extent, mean that you are taking on your partner and any children they have. I am not sure how he will feel about continued responsibility for the kids though. His view may well be they are not his so why should he be responsible for them. It certainly sheds light on why he doesn't feel the need to spend any time with them. The only thing I will say about this is he should think about how much his absence will hurt them. He played 'daddy' for a significant chunk of their lives and to just withdraw that is cruel. Unfortunately, you will have to rely on his innate sense of decency (if he has any) and hope he wants to do the decent thing by those kids because you have no fallback (as far as the law is concerned) unless he adopted them when you got married.

I think you took off your rings because you were ready to remove them. I know your heart is breaking and you want, more than anything, for him to change his mind. But deep down you know he won't and taking off your rings is the first step (and a significant one) in accepting this. I am not going to pretend you won't lapse again into recriminations and wanting to know why he wants out - you will. But subconsciously, you are accepting the situation and, in your own way, doing whatever you can to be able to move on.

You definitely sound stronger. Rest assured, it doesn't sound to me as though you are missing out because this man doesn't sound like the man you married at all. Just focus on getting through each minute, then each hour, then each day without this selfish person. You will do it. Look around this site for testimonials from hundreds of people who have stood in your shoes and survived. You will too.

Take care


Helen

[helenrw200]

My ex husband assumed responsibility for my 2 sons for 18 yrs ( in the case of eldest from my first marriage, even legally adopting him ) and 13 years... the whole of his life, in the case of youngest. When we first split up, he sent me on a real guilt trip about missing the kids/would never get to see them/felt left out of their lives... etc. This lasted for exactly a year, until he moved in with his new g/f and her son and daughter.

Now they are lucky to see him for half an hour once a month, eldest couldn't care less, he's 23 and had grown away from his dad in the years preceding the marriage breakup, but youngest has taken it hard, Especially as my ex now takes his new family out all the time and youngest rarely gets invited, he took new g/f on a 2 day trip on the Orient Express last year, but is now saying he can't afford a football season ticket next season for himself and son, which was the only quality time they spent together. Youngest also thinks his dad has married on the quiet and is really upset ( his dad's started wearing a wedding ring ) but he's autistic, he won't ask him directly, just worries about it all the time.

I hate my ex for what he's doing, I've always tried to keep out of his life as I felt it wasn't my business any more, but I feel like giving him a good kick up the a*** ! He's so arrogant now and I'm annoyed that he managed to make me feel guilty for leaving, took all the sympathy as the "wronged husband " and now he's acting like this !

Pebbles, biological father or not, your H was dad to the kids for a long time, he can't then suddenly choose not to be, because it doesn't suit anymore, that's not fair to the children and you should maybe tell him that ?


Helen

[pebbles]

I dont think its that it doesnt suit - its just he doesnt want to sit in the house with them but has no where else to take them so he see's them for 3 hours once a week. He didnt have much to do with the kids when we were together -we did family things like going bowling, pictures etc, but he didnt spend any 1 on 1 time with them so he probably finds it a bit difficult to do it now.

He sent me a text saying he couldnt babysit on Saturday night for me to go to work, but his mam would do it instead. Apparantly he is going out on the drink with his new factory workmates. Pay day tomorrow for him....

He has contacted my daughter asking her if she wants to go out for a few hours with him Sunday, the last time she saw him was Sunday last week for 2 hours.

Just when I think I am taking a step forward to moving on, I seem to take another right back. I know he is going to move on and have a social life, but he doesnt seem to give a t*ss about anthing that goes on in this house.

On the plus side, I did feel a bit better this morning. I went with his aunt to a garage to see about getting her car repaired. The mechanic was "checkin me out" and we exchanged a few flirty words! It was just a bit of fun - but boy was it a confidence booster as he was quite nice!!
Then I found out he is married to her friend and he is a bit of a flirt.... MEN!!!!!

[philpinners]

Hey pebbles, stop worrying about what he's doing, and worry about yourself! life goes on! dont rush into another relationship tho! ive always been told, life is like a journey, and your going to go different places and meet different people and see and experiance things you might have experiance before, and all you got to remember is, treat everyone like a friend to start with, and if anything comes out of it, then thats great!! and they will be part of the journey with you, but dont get derailed because of one incident. how did you get this far in life if you couldnt cope with anything? it takes a strong person to take a step forward, and you have always got to remember that you are speical no matter what anyone says!

[tiamaria]

hello me too am not coping my husband left me after 17 years with a 5 year old son he said he still loved us but has found someone who is fun . was i supposed to dump my son on a baby sitter my husband never mentioned that he wanted to go out we visited our club once a week he went to hockey on a saturday all day drank with the lads afterwards,darts on a mondaynight & cricket on a tuesday&any other excuse to go out for a drink was i stupid to put up with this?
he hasnt contacted us since he left not even to ask if his son was ok.

[Helen]

hello me too am not coping my husband left me after 17 years with a 5 year old son he said he still loved us but has found someone who is fun . was i supposed to dump my son on a baby sitter my husband never mentioned that he wanted to go out we visited our club once a week he went to hockey on a saturday all day drank with the lads afterwards,darts on a mondaynight & cricket on a tuesday&any other excuse to go out for a drink was i stupid to put up with this?
he hasnt contacted us since he left not even to ask if his son was ok.Hi Tiamaria,

After being with him for 17 years, I am guessing you guys are aged between 35-45. There is a theory that says when men (and women) do things like this, they are having a mid life crisis (MLC). Crisis is a bit of a misnomer because often spouses who behave in this way seem to be having anything but a crisis. It is amazing how cold they become. They blame you for the fact that that they involve themselves with other people. They say they love you and the kids yet they walk away without a backward glance, often without seeing their kids for weeks on end. I am willing to bet if you pointed out the discrepancy in your husband's statements about love and his behavior (avoidance), he would flare up at you in a rage. Men and women in MLC do not want to hear about their erratic, contradictory behaviour. Indeed, they do not want to hear anything that threatens to tear down the fantasy world they have erected to justify going off with someone else. As for your son, your husband is seeing as little of him as possible because he feels guilty about what he is doing to his child - and, subsequently, to you. You know that phrase 'out of sight, out of mind'? It is very relevant here. If he doesn't see his child, he can put his responsibilities and guilt out of his mind.

To me, one of the most difficult things to accept is the fact that they go off and form relationships elsewhere without hinting that they are having issues. And they are unwilling to discuss anything or go to marriage counselling. As for the other woman/man, of course they are fun. Most of the time, they are free and single with no responsibilities to worry about. Think back to when you first got together with your husband. I am betting you were a lot of fun too. You probably still are, but in different ways. That said, if your husband was free to go off and play cricket and drink with the lads, how much more fun was he looking for? This is why we end up driving ourselves nuts trying to figure out what we did to cause this to happen.

At the moment, I have no doubt you have lots of confused thoughts. In addition, you are probably very upset and traumatised and feel rejected and worthless. These are all feelings most of us on this board are familiar with. I know it is little consolation at the moment but trust me - this WILL get easier to deal with. I think you do need to take some action yourself to try to clarify your own thoughts and regain some control over what is happening. For example, find out where you and your child stand once and for all and, if necessary, think about instigating formal separation from your husband. Ask him some tough questions too. He says he loves you so why is he with someone else? How could he do this? Why did he go to her in the first place without giving you a chance to put things right? He says he 'found someone else'. If he found her, that indicates he was looking for her. WHY? What about his legal and emotional obligations to you? Does he think he was entitled to look for someone else? I have to admit, this was the thing I found hardest to deal with.

The pain and the difficulty coping are made so much worse if you are in limbo. If he is away and you have no idea if he is ever going to come back. This is why I recommend that you take action to find out where you stand. If he DOES decide to come back, you should insist on marriage counselling to get to the bottom of why he was looking for fun elsewhere. Whatever he decides to do, I recommend you get some support for yourself. Find a marriage counsellor or a counsellor for yourself. Talking to someone else about what is going on is helpful. In my case, it helped me to make the decision to end my marriage and I don't regret it (that said, my son was fully grown so it did make things easier).

I am sorry to hear you are going through this. Do come back and post on this board regularly. You will find lots of people here have been in the same boat as you and you will get some really good advice to help you through the coming weeks and months.

Take care


Helen

PS: I know you haven't seen him for a while but I hope he is at least supporting his son financially. If he isn't, and you don't know where he is, apply for maintenance via the Child Support Agency as soon as possible. This will serve as a reminder to him that despite his assnine behaviour, he has obligations elsewhere and you for one expect him to fulfill them.

[tiamaria]

thankyou Helen for that i feel a bit better he has only left me in the last week and i did tell him to keep away from us for two weeks.i thought he cared more for his son and would have tried to make contact.
as for money we have a joint account that both our wage go into so at the moment he still is providing for us although i have noticed he has been taking money out like there is no tomorrow probably to source his fun.
do i report his card lost so that he cannot use it or is this just putting another spanner i the works.
thankyou again
maria

[Helen]

thankyou Helen for that i feel a bit better he has only left me in the last week and i did tell him to keep away from us for two weeks.i thought he cared more for his son and would have tried to make contact.
as for money we have a joint account that both our wage go into so at the moment he still is providing for us although i have noticed he has been taking money out like there is no tomorrow probably to source his fun.
do i report his card lost so that he cannot use it or is this just putting another spanner i the works.
thankyou again
mariaTiamaria,

I would not report his card lost but I would get a separate bank account for yourself and get your money paid into that account. I would also make it clear to him that you expect him to transfer sufficient money into your new account to support his child and if he doesn't, I would go off to Family Court and ask them to garnish his salary so that your child maintenance is taken out before his salary is paid into the joint account. Finally, I would speak to the bank where the joint account is held and get your name removed from the joint account. That way, when he is overdrawn (as he will be if he is spending money like water), you will not be liable too.

Do you know who this other woman is? Does she know he is married and has a child? Doesn't she care?

Take care,


Helen

[pebbles]

I have been reading on another thread about putting the other person first in a marriage and unconditional love. Do you think it is too late for me to try and get H to go to relate with me? He has never changed his mind about why he left - he doesnt love me because his feelings changed, there is no one else, I am a nice person, I didnt do anything wrong etc. I believed in my marriage so much I just cant move on, so would relate help me either come to terms with the end of my marriage or help him "come to his senses" or is it a bit too late now?
I think I could persude H to come to relate with me for my sake, but he wouldnt go if he thought I was doing it with the specific goal of getting back together, I just think it would give me answers one way or another. I know the answer I am hoping for, but at least I would have heard it from a professional that he isnt coming back and that it want my fault. I think what hurts the most is knowing how much he used to love me and him not wanting to try and get it back.

[pebbles]

A very big thank you to everyone who has replied to my posts.
Its been 9 weeks since he left and its getting harder and harder. I simply cant go on feeling like this, it is hurting way too much for me to cope. I actually thought about running my car off the road yesterday and the only thing that stopped me was thinking of my children. I know I need help, I dont know what to do, i just dont want to wake up on a morning anymore. I fell so alone and dont want to let my friends know how bad I am feeling as I think they have had supported me enough already.

[Kate]

Dear Pebbles

I am sorry that I didn't see your post on the 29th. Yes it is worth trying to get your husband to Relate. Having another party there can help you both share what happened and what you want for the future. The Counsellor cannot help you get back together, they are there to help you understand what has happened. Understanding goes some way to bringing healing of the pain if not the relationship.

In the end the only way you two will get back together and make a go of things is if you both decide that is what you want. Sadly your continuing love and commitment to your husband is not enough to guarantee he will respond, but at least you will have the peace of knowing you stayed true to yourself and to him and did all that you could.

You are going through the pain of rejection and bereavement. You have said in earlier posts that you keep asking questions about what went wrong, would it have been different if I had done something different, why doesn’t he love me anymore, am I loveable? You don’t want to be alone. There is no easy way through those to an acceptance of what has happened. Somehow I think it is easier to face these questions when you can believe in your own value and worth, and find hope that there is a future and it will be bearable and happiness will return one day.

You talked a while ago about the fact that you had some counselling at the end of last year. Could you go back and see your counsellor and get them to help you work through what is going on inside you. It sounds as though you do need some help – there is nothing wrong with that, you’ve got your family to look after, so you need some help looking after yourself.

Hang on in there, you will come though all this. Keep in touch.

Kate

[monalone]

Hi pebbles,

Sorry to hear you are feeling so bad, but you have to be strong and you will come through this. I have been going through pretty much the same emotions you have for nearly 3 months now, and have only started feeling better over the last two weeks. So just stay strong.

I still love my wife dearly and do still want her back, but I have learnt to back off and concentrate more on myself. This has made it much easier for me to cope with what's going on.

Keep yourself busy, meet up with friends, spend some fund days out with your children, get some exercise (this has helped me the most) Try to not be needy and desperate for his affection and don't ask him to come along on days out (If he wants to come, let him ask) He may begin to notice you are getting on with your life and realise what he is missing out on.

Unfortunately sometimes us men (Me included!) only realise what we may be missing out on when you show that you are capable of moving on and enjoying yourself with or without our presence. Obviously try your best to be pleasant with him, but don't chase.

Over all other things, take care of yourself

[jools]

Hi Pebbles
So sorry you're feeling like this. Mine hasn't actually left yet but I can sympathise with how you're feeling. I think my feelings are less intense cos I've been going thro this for 3 years - but I still have days when I feel i'm going nuts with it all. Like monalone said it is a matter of TIME - bloody annoying that we don't have a fast forward button and have to endure the pain of that time! 9 weeks is not very long when you think what you've been through. Take comfort from people like Jeannie. She's been through hell and come through it quite successfully. She'll tell you that there IS light at the end of the tunnel; you're just too far down to see it yet.

Don't worry about pouring it out to your friends - I know that that's sometimes the only thing that keeps my sanity. And if you're afraid of becoming a burden to them then just try socialising with them without talking about it all the time. Just the distraction of the company will help. Got any clubs you could join? Just tell yourself "This is as bad as it gets and I WILL get through it". Be strong, Pebbles and keep posting.
Jools. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
________
Vaporizerinfo.com (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[Helen]

Pebbles,

I too missed your post on the 29th. I am sorry to hear you are in so much pain. When I saw your latest post the question I wanted to ask is are you getting any support from anywhere with this? For example, have you seen your doctor or have you arranged to see a counsellor for yourself? If you haven't seen your doctor, I think it would be a good idea if you did. He can give you medication to help you through the worst of this process of grieving. I am not suggesting that this should be a long term solution but when someone is in as much pain as you are, I would say it is essential you get additional help. Especially as you are now having suicidal thoughts. Okay, you did not follow through and you say you never would because of your kids but once that thought enters your head, sometimes it can be difficult to shake.

I know you are probably torturing yourself every day asking the same question - why? How could he? But you know, I went through a really dark time myself and towards the end of it I realised there was no point searching for answers, particularly from my husband. I wasn't going to get anything beyond 'it just happened'. Even when he had the opportunity to be completely honest, he said he couldn't because he didn't want to hurt me. As though he could have hurt me more. I spent a long time - a long time - asking why, begging for answers before the realisation dawned that there really was no point asking. Once I reached that point, I started to recover.

I am not suggesting it's 'that easy'. It isn't. But I would like to suggest to you that instead of focusing on what your husband has done and how you feel about it and instead of questioning yourself and him and going around in circles of grief, anger and helplessness (because you are not getting any answers and he isn't responding to your requests for reconcilliation) that you instead try to employ some strategies to help you break away from doing this. You know that expression 'can't see the wood for the trees'? That is what the cycle you are in is like right now. When you get wrapped up in your grief, sometimes it is hard to see a way forward that isn't filled with despair. Don't get me wrong - it is important to grieve for your marriage and for what could have been. But at the same time, be aware of behaviours you engage in to amplify that grief because those behaviours can be pretty destructive.

The main thing that helped me was to try to step outside my emotions and think about things - what happened, what there might have been about me that made it happen, was there anything I would change with hindsight - that sort of thing. The most important thing was I tried to do it without the tears and I was able to do this by suspending all thoughts of reconcilliation - for the moment - and concentrating on myself. Healing me. Easier said than done I know but with practice it does become easier. Counselling would help you to do this - I learned this technique as part of my own therapy and have practised it over the years to the point where it has become second nature.

Having done this thinking, the other thing I did was to make a promise to myself to say 'this isn't helpful' when I started to slide towards another cycle of questions. Again, it wasn't easy and I did lapse - more than once. But when I emerged from each period of darkness, I made a new promise to myself. I found ways to distract myself. I focused on making my home my nest. I redecorated and installed a new kitchen. Not something that everyone can do but I had some money from dividing the assets when I separated from my ex and I thought I might as well put it to use. I also rediscovered some old hobbies that I had allowed to fall by the wayside after getting married. I started singing again (for example) and invited my girlfriends around for a girly evening. I know you feel guilty about leaning on your friends. Think about doing something small and informal for your closest friends. Even if you order in take out, you can have a girly gossip and maybe thank them for being there for you. I actively looked for ways to get some enjoyment into my life - some pleasure, for me.

I am not dismissing your feelings, not at all. But I think you need to do something to break out of your current cycle. Help YOU to help yourself. Start small. Think about the things you used to do on your own that gave you pleasure and make a list. That list can become a beacon of hope when the clouds threaten to fall. Mine did.

Do take care. Go to see your doctor and post on this board more frequently because you do need the support,


Helen

[tiamaria]

iI would not report his card lost but I would get a separate bank account for yourself and get your money paid into that account. I would also make it clear to him that you expect him to transfer sufficient money into your new account to support his child and if he doesn't, I would go off to Family Court and ask them to garnish his salary so that your child maintenance is taken out before his salary is paid into the joint account. Finally, I would speak to the bank where the joint account is held and get your name removed from the joint account. That way, when he is overdrawn (as he will be if he is spending money like water), you will not be liable too.

Do you know who this other woman is? Does she know he is married and has a child? Doesn't she care?

Take care,


hello helen

yes i do know who she is, she is thirty no ties and still living at home i have text her and she replied that it wasnt down to her that he left he would have left me anyway,which i find very difficult to understand we have so many plans for the comming year holidays and such like,we never argued very much and if we did we would have always made up by the morning.
it has been a week since i told him to leave we have had an email from him saying he needed time to think seriously and that he would pop in to see Conor it feels like forever i do miss him i hate being alone.
i have read on the internet that to save a marriage you shouldnt let him know that you are missing him or show any upset i have tried this now for 2 days and i am finding it very hard i dont want him to think i have stopped caring for him i still love him very much

[pebbles]

Thanks again everyone.

I think the reason I havent been for professional help yet is because once I go down that path, I am accepting what has happened and I dont want to accept it.
His mam and dad both say its too early for us to find someone else (which I agree with) as they are both hoping we will get back together, saying once he has had time to think about things he will be back. How can I get my head sorted when even his parents are thinking like this? I have tried to put them straight but they think H just needs time.
H is not a big talker about his feelings, he is very strong minded and wont change his mind (both because he says its the right decision and he never changes his mind/stubborn). He doesnt open up to anyone and I cant have a conversation with him as all the answers I get are "shoulder shrugs".
A few of my friends have seen him in a different light, but he is still the man I love with all of my heart. He has given up on us and doesnt want to try again and I cant let go.
I just cant believe that you can fall out of love with someone for no reason.
Thats what is messing with my mind the most - not having a reason, and the fact that he has very little to do with us now.

[Helen]

Pebbles,

Accepting professional help does not necessarily mean that you are accepting what has happened. It is a separate thing. I am talking about medical help to deal with your depression and counselling to talk about how you feel. You need an outlet. This board is great but I suspect you need more than that.

All of this said, there may come a time when you have no choice other than to accept what has happened. Denial prolongs the agony. The longer you deny, the more painful your recovery will be. I am not suggesting you accept what has happened just yet. What I am saying is there will come a point where you will have no choice other than to accept it - particularly if your husband remains adamant that it's over.

Maybe his parents are right. Maybe he just needs time. Or maybe not. Whatever he needs, I would focus more on you for the moment. Begging him to come back and pleading him to tell you why he fell out of love with you is not going to help him make up his mind any sooner. Indeed, it may well push him further away and make him feel angry with you. You need to give him time and space to think about what he really wants. In the meantime, you need to focus on YOU.


Helen

[Helen]

yes i do know who she is, she is thirty no ties and still living at home i have text her and she replied that it wasnt down to her that he left he would have left me anyway,which i find very difficult to understand we have so many plans for the comming year holidays and such like,we never argued very much and if we did we would have always made up by the morning.
it has been a week since i told him to leave we have had an email from him saying he needed time to think seriously and that he would pop in to see Conor it feels like forever i do miss him i hate being alone.
i have read on the internet that to save a marriage you shouldnt let him know that you are missing him or show any upset i have tried this now for 2 days and i am finding it very hard i dont want him to think i have stopped caring for him i still love him very muchTiamaria,

It may not have been down to her that he left (somehow I find that difficult to believe) but she does have a choice over whether she continues her involvement with him. At the end of the day, the man is married and has a child and, like it or not, the reason he has given for going is her. She should put the shoe on the other foot - supposing she was you and he had left her for you - how would she feel? If she responds with equanimity, clearly she is not grown up enough to understand the implications for her in the longer term, particularly if she takes up with him as a life partner.

There is no doubt that the loneliness is the hardest thing to take when you separate. Yes, you child or children are there but it isn't the same. I sometimes fantasised about taking my ex back and trying to make things work (he wanted to come back) but I think it was a case of convincing myself that a bad husband was better than no husband at all. I talked myself out of that one pretty quickly.

The fact that he is now saying he needs time to think is a promising sign. Before he was saying that he was off to be with someone who was more fun. It sounds like he has almost had his fill of 'fun' and is having a few second thoughts.

Your point about not letting him know you are missing him is a salient one. There is an article on this site called '7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From the Affair and Stop it NOW! (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/articles/7tactics/)' which I refer people to. It outlines strategies to make yourself more appealing to the spouse who has walked away. You may find it helpful. It is the first article in the articles area (on the left, under 'Contents').

Take care,


Helen

[tiamaria]

i have given in today and emailed him i have only told him that i was off tomorrow and that if he wanted to see conor he could have i done right

[Helen]

i have given in today and emailed him i have only told him that i was off tomorrow and that if he wanted to see conor he could have i done rightTiamaria,

Are you asking me if allowing your husband to come and see his child today is the right thing to do, I would have to say yes, it is. Ultimately, it is not your son's fault that your husband is behaving like an ass. He should not be punished by being deprived of his father's attention/affection.

Many women use their children as weapons when they are in the situation that you are in (by denying access or making it difficult for a father to see his kids) so I am glad that you are not resorting to these tactics. It isn't fair on the child and it isn't fair on your husband either. Women who behave in this way may feel better for doing it (because they are hurting their estranged husband) but they risk damaging their child's relationship with their father permanently and causing a range of other problems later on in a child's life. Good for you for not giving in and behaving in this way.

Take care Tiamaria,


Helen

[tiamaria]

what sort of thing do i talk about i am getting so nervous do i ask him to come back home or is this pushing him into a corner,do i act as though we dont need him would that be pushing him away god i wish this was all over and he would just come back home

[Helen]

what sort of thing do i talk about i am getting so nervous do i ask him to come back home or is this pushing him into a corner,do i act as though we dont need him would that be pushing him away god i wish this was all over and he would just come back homeTiamaria,

Whether you ask him to come home is up to you but if it were me, I wouldn't because yes, that would be pushing him into a corner. In terms of how you act, I would be neutral but firm rather than uncaring. The sorts of things I would talk about are your child's welfare and ongoing child support - how much is he going to pay for his child and towards your home running costs; how often is he going to pay it, and how frequently he is going to visit his son. The other thing I would discuss is how long the two of you will remain separated. The only point I would make is you realise he needs time to think but you are not going to wait indefinitely. That isn't fair to you and it isn't fair to your son either. So I would suggest you try to agree a deadline by which he will have made up his mind whether he is coming home to you or staying with the other woman and you decide at that point what happens next.

In addition, I would tell him if he comes back to you, he must come back to YOU. Because he wants to be with YOU. Not because of your child, not because he feels a certain amount of pressure and not because he is unsure about his future with the other woman. He has to be sure he is doing the right thing because if he isn't, chances are he will stray again. I would also make it clear that you want to go to marriage counselling with him and that would be a condition of his return. This is important because you need to understand why he left in the first place - he needs to understand this too. On the back of this you BOTH must be prepared to do the work on your relationship to heal things - if one of you isn't, there is no point in him coming back.

I am, of course, speaking from my point of view. How you handle this is up to you.


Helen

[pebbles]

H came down tonight to watch the kids while I went to work.
When I came back I asked him if he would come with me on the initial visit to a councellor as I needed to see someone to sort myself out.
I said that I wasnt coping very well and all I wanted was for him to accept a bit of responsibilty for the way I am feeling because of our seperation. He point blank refused, he wont do it.
He said that I told him I was getting over it (which I didnt, I told him that I accepted he wasnt coming back) and he looked really p*d off that I had asked him for support.
I feel so rejected - what did I do so wrong that he can be so cold towards me.
I now know how other people felt when he was so "point blank unemotional" with them. I think by asking him to come with me to councelling that I have made things even worse between us - I dread to think how he will be next time I see him.

[Helen]

H came down tonight to watch the kids while I went to work.
When I came back I asked him if he would come with me on the initial visit to a councellor as I needed to see someone to sort myself out.
I said that I wasnt coping very well and all I wanted was for him to accept a bit of responsibilty for the way I am feeling because of our seperation. He point blank refused, he wont do it.
He said that I told him I was getting over it (which I didnt, I told him that I accepted he wasnt coming back) and he looked really p*d off that I had asked him for support.
I feel so rejected - what did I do so wrong that he can be so cold towards me.
I now know how other people felt when he was so "point blank unemotional" with them. I think by asking him to come with me to councelling that I have made things even worse between us - I dread to think how he will be next time I see him.Pebbles,

Why was he so angry and why is he being so cold towards you? Because you ambushed him with your request. And you did. What is the point of asking him to take responsibility for the way you are feeling? How would that help? What would change and what would the next step be? You KNOW he is responsible for the way you are feeling at the moment, so asking him to step into a meeting with a third party to admit this responsiblity isn't really going to achieve anything. And, at the end of the day, why should he? Do this I mean. As far as he is concerned, the marriage is over.

Sorry if this sounds brutal.

The fact is, your husband does not want to accept any responsibility. Period. He also doesn't want to support you. As far as he is concerned, this is your problem, not his, and his mind is made up.

I would also ask you - why do you feel you need him to go to counselling with you? You can go on your own. You do not need him to go with you. I would suggest that you question your underlying motives. This isn't about getting him to accept responsibility. Recognise that. From what you have said before, I am guessing you would have tried to find some way to reconcile with him through these sessions - whether he wants to or not. It is one thing telling him you need him there to accept responsibility. It is another thing entirely understanding what your underlying motivations really are. You want to manipulate him into getting what you want, one way or another. I am guessing your husband does understand and this is what he is angry about.

You need to do some thinking about what you were really trying to do here. As to worrying about how he will be towards you next time - I would not worry about it. For the moment, anyway.


Helen

[pebbles]

Hi Helen
I didnt ambush him and he wasnt angry - just emotionless.
I dont see why I should have to get myself and my kids through this alone.
He was the one that walked out, we didnt want him to go, so I feel that if councelling can help me move on, then he could at least do his part.
I havent been able to fight for my marriage, I havent been able to ask any questions, I have had no answers, and a councellor could have helped me get the answers I was looking for, thats it, not a reconcilliation.
I am not a manipulator and my reasons where not selfish. I cant see him being able to move on in the future if he doesnt come to terms with why he left because he has no answers for himself either.
He isnt someone who talks to family or friends, so this was my attempt to get reasons and answers - or part way there. A councellor could have been the impartial mediator that we needed to communicate with each other.
I need him to take responsibility for what has happened - it was his choice to leave and he nievely thinks that just because we look ok when he come to see my daughter that we are all coping just fine. He thinks that I can fall out of love with him just like that. He is being cold because thats the type of person he is, just shuts down when he wants to ignore things. They say love is blind, well my eyes are starting to open.

[jools]

Hi Pebbles
I fully understand your need to get your head around why and how everything has happened. You need to talk it through over and over. That's how us women are.
He isnt someone who talks to family or friends, so this was my attempt to get reasons and answers - or part way there. A councellor could have been the impartial mediator that we needed to communicate with each other.

Now that's where you're going wrong. Men (well most) do not WANT to discuss their problems or feelings with anyone. They just want to get on with things. They don't see the benefit in going over things. Unlike us women. They would much rather AVOID any sort of discussion. Yes, he needs you to appear to be coping because otherwise he feels guilty.

he looked really p*d off that I had asked him for support.


He was cross because you put pressure on him and made him feel guilty. Men just don't "do" talking! My H is a case in point! Helen's right. You need to go to C for yourself. Leave him out of it.
Jools. X
________
Political risk insurance advice (http://www.insurance-forums.org/political-risk-insurance/)

[Helen]

Hi Helen
I didnt ambush him and he wasnt angry - just emotionless.

Pebbles, you said he looked really P*d off. That implies to me that he was angry. And yes - if the request came out of the blue with no warning, he probably does feel like he was ambushed or was being backed into a corner.

I dont see why I should have to get myself and my kids through this alone.
He was the one that walked out, we didnt want him to go, so I feel that if councelling can help me move on, then he could at least do his part.

I agree with this statement - but only in relation to the kids. He should do his part to help them. But, horrible though it sounds, he is under no obligation to help you through this. You therefore have to help yourself.

I havent been able to fight for my marriage, I havent been able to ask any questions, I have had no answers, and a councellor could have helped me get the answers I was looking for, thats it, not a reconcilliation.

Again, it sounds horrible, but after going through my own period of limbo, believe me - he is under no obligation to tell you anything. Some men will, but like Jools says, that is a rare man. Most won't explain. You yourself have admitted your husband is not a man of words. I would imagine he would be even less forthcoming in front of an audience. I don't know why you are surprised that he is refusing to help with this.

I cant see him being able to move on in the future if he doesnt come to terms with why he left because he has no answers for himself either.

Why do you care about his ability to move on? This man left you and the kids. Maybe he has all the answers he needs already and is not interested in looking for any more. I am not saying your aim isn't noble here just trying to get you to understand that just because you think a certain course of action is right, he might not necessarily agree with you.

I need him to take responsibility for what has happened - it was his choice to leave and he nievely thinks that just because we look ok when he come to see my daughter that we are all coping just fine.

I still don't understand how his taking responsibility would help you. He knows he has left, you know he was the one to leave. I don't know what the kids know. I suspect he also knows that you, in particular are finding this hard. But my point is - you know he is responsible for how you feel and so does he. So how is his admitting this in front of a counsellor going to help you? How is digging for 'the truth' with a third party going to help? Think about it - you go to a counsellor. Let's say (hyperthetically) that he acknowledges the hurt he has caused you. Let's say he also tells you why he fell out of love with you and why he is walking away (unlikely, but let's imagine he does). a) don't you think that would bring you even more pain? b) okay, he admits all this stuff - then what? This is my point. There is no reason for him to go to counselling with you for YOU. He doesn't want to talk about you and him. It may be worth going for the kids. But in his eyes, you and he are over.

I will also ask you again - why do you think he is going to care? This man has walked away. He has convinced himself that this is the right course of action for him. He is not open or receptive to any conversation with you about it. You have indicated that he is not a man of words. I suspect you will never get the answers you are looking for, especially not in front of a third party. This is not a man to confide in people and I cannot see him ever agreeing to do it in public if at all. You therefore have to ask yourself what happens next.

He thinks that I can fall out of love with him just like that. He is being cold because thats the type of person he is, just shuts down when he wants to ignore things. They say love is blind, well my eyes are starting to open.

Again, I don't think he cares whether you are still in love with him. All he cares about is the fact that HE is no longer in love with you. He is being cold because you keep asking for answers. It is possible he doesn't know the answer. Maybe he can't pin it down. I am not suggesting he is right to be cold towards you or do what he has done. Just explaining that sometimes this is what happens.

I have said it once but I really think you ought to go to counselling for you and the kids because your husband is not going to help you with this. I realise you didn't get the chance to fight for your marriage and that must be frustrating. But you can't make someone do something that they don't want to do. He doesn't want to go to counselling with you. You just have to accept that. And find another way.


Helen

[pebbles]

Can anyone tell me when this gets better? My head is an absolute mess. He is sending me mixed signals which I am trying to ignore as I know he doesnt mean them. He is friendly one day,then hardly talking to me the next time I see him.
I am trying very hard to get through this, but the rejection is eating me up.
He still has a lot of stuff here and isnt making any attempt to move it, he also still has a key.
I try to keep myself busy so I dont think about things, but then I dream about him at night! grrr

[Helen]

Pebbles,

I don't think there is a straightfoward answer to your question. When does it get better? When it does. That is about as much as I can tell you. What I do know though is being surrounded by your husband's possessions and having him come and go (and allowing him to keep his key) will make things a lot harder for you. You have already experienced some of this, through the mixed messages he is sending. In fairness to you, he needs to stop.

I honestly think you need to speak to him. Tell him by no means are you calling time on your marriage. The door is still open, in many respects. But to help yourself come to terms with everything, you need to push it partially shut. This means you don't want to see as much of him from now on. By all means, he can come to see the kids. But you would rather he took them somewhere than come to your home and sit there as though the two of you are still together. I would also ask him for his key. Tell him he can have it back once he makes up his mind whether he is coming back. If he says he is not coming back, tell him he doesn't need a key then. I would also tell him to pack up his stuff and make arrangements to get them into storage if he has nowhere to put them at the moment. All those reminders of him in your family home are not helping you. Therefore he needs to do his bit to complete separation, because at the moment, you feel as though you are in limbo.

I think the feelings of rejection are the hardest thing to deal with. You still want him so why can't he still want you? But you know, you cannot force someone else to respond to you. You cannot make them want you either. This is hard to deal with when you still love someone as much as ever. I am not sure I would talk about things getting better. But you definitely start focusing on different things and you move through different emotional states. The timing for this differs with everyone. But until then, just hang on for grim death and do your best each day. In the meantime too, take more control. It will make you feel like less of a victim. Ask him to pack his things away and ask for the key. And ask him to come round only for the kids (until he decides what he wants to do) and keep any ambivalent behaviour towards you under control. At the end of the day, he is the one who wants out. If he wants out, he should go properly and not keep the two of you in this agonising arrangement he currently has in place indefinitely.

Do take care Pebbles,


Helen

[Hope]

Hi Pebbles,
Can anyone tell me when this gets better? My head is an absolute mess. He is sending me mixed signals which I am trying to ignore as I know he doesnt mean them. He is friendly one day,then hardly talking to me the next time I see him.
My ex husband used to change from warm and caring to cold and nasty at times. Things have settled down for me now... I think! Its been nearly two years for me though so as you can see the relationship between you and your H may take time to sort itself out. I wonder if your H's moods are a reflection of his own happiness/unhappiness and you just happen to be on the receiving end of it all. I think that when people are happy and content they will behave respectfully and nice towards others and vice versa.

I am trying very hard to get through this, but the rejection is eating me up.
He still has a lot of stuff here and isnt making any attempt to move it, he also still has a key.
I try to keep myself busy so I dont think about things, but then I dream about him at night! grrr
The rejection was also one of the most difficult emotions for me to come to terms with. After a while I started to value myself again and my self esteem returned etc. It does feel as though these feelings are taking over your life at times and toally consuming your thoughts but over time you'll stop focusing on your ex. I'm afraid the recovery period can't be rushed.

My ex also didn't make any attempt to take his things. I ended up just getting on with boxing my ex's things up and then telling him that he needed to take things when he visited each time! I still have some of his things but I'm expecting to give it ALL to him when him and his woman buy their home together. My ex tends to bury his head in the sand a little and he's not very good at making the first move. I'm sure his woman had to keep pushing him to get him enthusiastic about buying the new house .... thats just the way some people are. If you want to start making some progress then I would just get on with things yourself rather than wait around for your H to pull his finger out!

As for the dreams.... I used to dream about my ex and often felt washed out in the morning. I used to find myself crying during a dream of him and then woke up feeling disorientated and panicky. I still have the odd dream about him but and we appear to be just friends so as you can see everything does eventually improve! Keep plodding on. Just remember that time is a healer and things WILL slowly improve.

Hope x