It's all over bar the shouting...

[wysi]

I posted on here a little while ago. My H had an affair which resulted in a child - now 1 yo. He visits C and therefore sees ex. he doesn't want to live w them - but now I realise he doesn't want to stay w me & our kids either. but he doesn't want to be the one to end it - basically he doesn't have the strength/courage and he wants me to throw him out so he can be seen as blameless.

I need to be able to separate from him w/o feeling rejected and w/o hurting our children more than is strictly necessary but at the same time letting them know that I have been making every effort to save the marriage/family. Oh I can't bear this and I need help.

[Helen]

Wysi,

What makes you think he doesn't want to stay with you and the children? Has he said this? And why do you think he would be seen as blameless if you are the one to tell him to go? If that is honestly what he thinks, he is living in cloud cookoo land. The fact is, if you end up apart, regardless of who instigates it, the fault is entirely his.

I don't think you can avoid feeling rejected. I suspect you already do. This man had sex with and impregnated another woman. That was not just a sexual betrayal. (and a rejection of you as a life partner) but he didn't care enough about your health and welfare to use barrier contraception. He also did not care enough about his kids to preserve his family unit intact and keep it unsullied by the offspring of a dalliance outside the marital home. It must hurt like crazy to know that he cared more about his jollys than he did about you and the children.

If you need him to go, tell him to go but tell him to make no mistake. Regardless of the fact that you are the one who is ending things, the blame is his to shoulder. He would have to be insane to expect you to put up with this situation. The fact is, if you put up with this, what else will you endure? It can't get much worse than this, in my view.

As for your kids, do they know about the child? If they do, I would explain to them that mummy and daddy do not love each other any more and therefore cannot live together but reassure them that you both still love them (even if he isn't showing this at the moment). Explain that you will always love them and put them first but you are going to live apart from now on. Chances are they know that the child is a source of tension between you and your husband and they may well ask about this. If they do, even if you feel like gouging your cheating husband and tearing him apart in their eyes, try not to. Try to give them honest, balanced answer to all their questions but make it clear that the two of you being together isn't an option.

It is hard and I really do feel for you. But I will say, once you make the decision and get it out in the open, it will feel as though a huge weight has lifted from your shoulders. Once you are apart, you can begin grieving for his actions and for the end of your marriage because you have not had the space to do that up until now. It will be painful, yet it is overdue and necessary in order to come to terms with everything that has happened and move on.

Take care,


Helen

[shadow]

Helen is right he got a screw missing if he thinks he wont be the blame of your marriage ending.

No one will think it is your fault that it is over even if you kick him, they will think that you are brave for giving another year of your life living in pain trying at all cost to your feelings to save your marriage. That you gave and he didnt return.

Now is the time to be completely honest with your children, they do understand about mommies and daddies getting married and having babies, and that it is wrong to have babies with other women. Reassure them that you did try, and kids pick up things they know, and as they grow older especially when they fall in love they will know. Ask your hubby for one last thing, that not to put the blame on you, that you told them the simple truth, but didnt cut him down for it just what he had done and that you couldnt get over it. Ask him not to blame the affair on you, take responsibily for what he has done, to tell the kids that he made a mistake and it dosnt change how he loves them.

[wysi]

Thought I would look up this old post just to see how long ago I sent it. Well - I was right that it was over when I sent it. I kept on trying for another 3 months - then had one final try at asking him to attempt to rebuild our relationship, using another site (marriage-builders). He said he would - & then the next day (july 8th) completely trashed that again. We agrd the next day to separate & I managed to get him to actually leave the day after.

I am mourning now for the relationship we did have & the person he was. But I do fully see now that the person he is now is not some-one I want. He has become incredibly selfish & arrogant. I am trying to remain civil because of the children (they are upset of course, but I see how little their daily routine is changed with him being out of the house, & realise how little he was actually giving to all of us for such a long time), but it is difficult to resist the urge to tell him exactly what I think of him when he comes over to see them.

I know I must make a new life & that it is possible. I realise that I have been going through the pain of the end of this for 20 months now & so I hope that this will count as "time served" when it comes to recovering.

In this stage I would really appreciate any advice about just coping day to day & also widening social circles - also how to just have men as friends when @ the moment I tend to feel they are just all a complete waste of time.

[Helen]

Ah wysi,

As you say, this was expected but I bet it is still hard to accept in many ways. I will be honest and say that although you have been going through this for 20 months, in many ways your grieving is just starting. When you made the decision to try and endure, you were trying to come to terms with your (strangely) changed family unit. There was another child but it wasn't yours. None the less because your husband had fathered it, the child is related to your kids and has encroached on your family unit. Hence the strangeness. No doubt there was anger there on your part but I am betting this anger was about the sexual infidelity and the resultant child. So your grieving for the 20 months may not have been about the end but about the betrayal. Now you are apart there may still be echoes of this anger but I have a feeling you are more angry about the fact that you were prepared to be selfless and forgive your husband and all you got was yet another slap in the face rejection from the man you used to consider your life partner... This knowledge will lead to a period of grieving and anger in itself but hopefully it will not feel as bad as the knowledge that your husband slept with someone else and got them pregnant - and expected you to deal with it...

I don't know if there is any pressure to make 'a new life' (not sure what that means by the way). Just accept that a way forward for you and the kids has come about as a result of you and your husband being apart and while things may not be ideal at the moment, your lot will get better one day. Day to day - not sure I have any big words of wisdom to offer but taking one day at a time (while a cliche) does help as does trying to distract yourself and your thought processes so that you are not focusing on everything that has happened over the last couple of years or so. I took up a hobby - sewing - to take my mind off my thoughts, which were driving me nuts at times. Keeping busy, preferably outside the home (it is easy to become a hermit if you do not take steps to make a life for yourself) also helps and if you are not ready for that, redecorating or shifting your nest around is also very therapeutic (my experience) as is removing any pictures/momentoes of your time with him (I would give each of your children a picture of him to keep in their rooms but get rid of the rest).

Now that the school holidays are coming up, think about taking the kids for picnics in the local park. If you have an open air pool, take them there for the odd day. Tips to the museum will be a good distraction for all of you too. Socialising doesn't have to involve having men as friends for the moment. Days out with girlfriends or having friends round for a drink, a meal and a laugh or a trip to a gallery or window shopping on your own are also good ways to get out there without exposing yourself to anything you are not ready for. Or just going for a walk in the park on your own...

My advice to you on the men thing - I can understand why you feel so hurt. I was badly hurt by my ex too (he didn't get the other woman pregnant but the other woman was my brother's wife. In terms of the betrayal, it wasn't the same but it felt awful to endure). But one day, you will accept that not all men are like your husband. There are men who communicate, who want a monogamous relationship, who will be loyal and caring and will share everything with you. It is unfortunate that a lot of us on this site found ourselves saddled with the polar opposite but when all the dust has settled, view what happened as a learning opportunity. When you are sufficiently down the road to give this some thought, think about your husband's strengths and weaknesses as a man and as a husband. I know it sounds very analytical and logical and you may not be there yet but doing this enabled me to see that while my ex had a LOT of flaws (i.e. selfish, manipulative, emotionally repressed, uncommunicative and abusive) it also enabled me to see his positive traits (i.e. to the main part, he was a good and involved father). Being able to see the positive in your husband is crucial to you getting over this feeling that all men are a waste of time. But you don't need to see it just yet because you need time to get through what is going on at the moment.

Do take care wysi. As stated, I am very sorry that things have come to this.


Helen

[wysi]

Helen - thank you for your reply which - as ever - is very pertinent. I know there are no short-cuts - I suppose I only meant that during this past 20 months there have been a number of times when I considered that it would have to end, and also realised that I was, as you say, in a very different kind of relationship than the one I had imagined, so that maybe I had already begun mourning the loss of what I thought I had had.

I am concentrating on the children (1st priority) and looking for a better job (I used to have a career! Took a break to do something completely different, which didn't really work out, 4 yrs ago. ) if I can be financially self-sufficient again, & doing something which challenges/interests me I know this will do wonders for my self-esteem as well as keeping my mind busy. From what you have said about the terrible situtaion you were in I know that your mind must have gone round & round in circles like mine does.

At the moment, when he comes round to see the girls/take them out he gets annoyed if I am not really friendly with him. He is not the sort of person I want as a friend! Of course - I am civil in front of them. But it burns me up that he thinks you can be trying & trying to make something work, sleeping with some-one, being their partner one minute - and the next just decide - oh Ok - lets just be friends. This might happen when people are dating & decide to split up - it's a bit different when you have been living together for nearly 18 years!

As you can maybe guess - he has just left after a quick visit. It must be so much easier to be the one who gets to walk away with the prospect of a child committment free week-end ahead!

Anyway - thanks again for your support.

[jools]

Hi Wysi

I could SO relate to so much of what you've said here. Him wanting to go but not having the guts to do it himself, me having fought for so long to save the marriage etc. I tried all I could for 3 years. You'd hope that recovery wise it would count as "time served". I think that initially it doesn't. The shock and the grieving are very raw. But as rime goes on (6 weeks for me since the separation) you start to see things without the rose tinted specs. It's harder for you because your children are young and so you still see him. At the moment, when he comes round to see the girls/take them out he gets annoyed if I am not really friendly with him. He is not the sort of person I want as a friend! What's helped me tremendously is that i've been able NOT to see him and have restricted communication to texts. If he gives our girls lifts or drops them off (he's become "taxi/macdonalds dad") he waits on the road outside. This is about your survival now and what will heal you the most quickly. "Friendly" conversations will hold up the process. Can't you pass the children over to him without having to "talk"? Tell him you don't want to for a while - until you feel stronger about it all.

it is difficult to resist the urge to tell him exactly what I think of him when he comes over to see them.
Another survival thing i've learnt is that the recrimination talks lead no where other than an argument. So if I have issues to get off my chest I send him a carefully worded E-mail. MUCH better! If it's a quick message regarding the kids or money I text him. The longer you can go without seeing or talking to him the easier you'll find it. I know that eventually I'll get back to talking etc. but that will be when I feel ready. I'm aiming for that wonderful state called "indifference".
lets just be friends. This might happen when people are dating & decide to split up - it's a bit different when you have been living together for nearly 18 years!
Absolutely! Friends would never treat you like that!

Everyone on here stressed the "keep busy" motto and it's SO important. if I can be financially self-sufficient again, & doing something which challenges/interests me I know this will do wonders for my self-esteem as well as keeping my mind busy. Spot on! I've gone back to work full time and am thinking "career" rather than "job". I've also joined a large health and fitness club with the aim of building a social circle. Friends have been fantastic in involving me in things --- next week (now we've broken up) we're all going camping for a few days.

It must be so much easier to be the one who gets to walk away with the prospect of a child committment free week-end ahead!
It might feel like you've drawn the short straw because your social freedom is limited by the children - but ultimately it'll be you that they appreciate as "the best mum in the world". My girls are too old to be fooled and I know it would break my H's heart if he knew how they really view him.

I see how little their daily routine is changed with him being out of the house, & realise how little he was actually giving to all of us for such a long time
Snap again! I think i'm only a short way ahead of you in this horrible process - but firmly believe that not seeing and not talking while the rawness heals a bit is the answer. I've had 5 "good" days in a row this week so i'm making progress; though the summer hols will be the challenge as i'm away from work and work friends for 6 weeks (I teach). I've actually been dreading this hol! Sorry if I've rambled a bit - but I can see so many similarities in our situations. Good luck!
Jools. XX
________
Magic Flight Launchbox (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

[wysi]

Jools - thanks for your reply - not rambling at all. I have re-read your earlier thread & yes - I agree that emotionally in terms of what we have beenthrough/are going through our situations are very similar. So it is hopeful for me to see that you are getting stronger & can find times when you don't just think about it all the time. I am so glad for you. It was great that you could shift back to F/T work just when you needed to. It is proving a bit harder for me to get back into my old field after the break - but I will keep working on it.

One difference is that my H has landed on his feet in terms of finding somewhere to stay ("house-sitting" - he has a friend who is quite well-off & has a "spare" property!), and that also my H is not depressed - on the contrary he has flung himself into his new single life & is no doubt taking every opportunity to do "whatever he wants, whenever he wants".

Anyway just wanted to say - thanks for posting - it really does help.

[wysi]

Hi again. I just needed to post an update as I am feeling completely frazzled at the moment. Accidently - by chance remarks from a couple of people - I have found out that in the last couple of months that we were together H was lying to me about where he was - making me think that not only had he re-started the affair w OW but got another one on the go as well!

Logically as we have split up I suppose this shouldn't matter, and I have not been prying at all. But emotionally it has hurt me again in a way I don't really understand - I already knew he was just pretending to try at our marriage at that time - so why does this make me hurt even more?

Anyway - I have an appt. with a solicitor tomorrow to find out what I can expect to get (the house is in my name - but as we had been married for 6 of the 18 yrs we were together he does have a stake in it). "Officially" the line we have taken is that we will agree settlement through mediation - H says he "doesn't want to fight". Well - I don't want to either - but the state of his mind at the moment seems to be that he should have whatever he wants - so a "fight" might not be possible to avoid.

I don't know if I said this before but he is quite a bit younger than me & so hadn't had any long-term relationships before we met. The age difference didn't honestly matter when we were happy, but I think what he is doing at the moment is more a delayed adolescence than mid-life crisis. I do know he was an awful lot more mature when we first met than he is now!

Thanks for letting me vent.

[wysi]

Hello again. Sorry to keep bumping my own thread but I would really like some help. I am having a lot of problems dealing with my H at the moment because he has such a bizzarre take on our situation. He has no conception of how I am feeling & seems to expect me to be friendly & forget everything that has happened over the past 3 years. I can see it would suit him to just down-grade our relationship to "friends" - but that is not at all how I feel of course. He behaves as though I am the one living in an alternate reality because I am furious/sad/hurting like hell. We have to have contact to deal with the children of course but I simply can't cope with him asking - in the manner of a passing aquaintance - "how are you?".

Should I try and tell him how I am? Should I just pretend to be cool and say "I'm fine."? Please advice on this difficult time when we need to sort out a divorce & assets & access etc. Please tell me I am not the person who is crazy.

[markus]

Your not crazy , its a difficult time your going through
personally i wouldn't pretend to be cool - you have nothing to lose by being honest and telling him how you feel and while your at it tell him how much of an imature ***** he is being and that the way he is living he will end up one day on his own in a bedsit with nobody

[wysi]

Thanks Markus - I think you are right that there's no point pretending. But also what Jools said earlier - no point in recriminations. He phoned today to make arrangements to take 1 of the kids to the airport - she is going on holiday for a few weeks. He asked me if I was coming! Much as I would like to see her off - I can't bear the thought of being in the car alone with him on the drive back. By his reaction when I said I wasn't coming he had obviously not considered this at all. He would like us to be "friends". Well - I can see why. It would make it soooo much easier for him, and he wouldn't have to feel quite so bad about himself. But I CAN'T just say - oh - Ok - I have been wasting my time trying to work on this - but never mind - we're the best of pals now. Nothing remotely like this has apparently crossed his mind.

He used to be quite an emotionally intelligent person. I honestly feel that aliens have taken over his mind.

Anyway - I know I need to stop thinking about this. Just finding it hard at the moment.

[wysi]

Just posting to say I appreciate the help people here are giving. I think one of the things blocking me was that I always felt that what my H & I had was "special". People used to say that we were made for each other - we used to be so solid. Our children's friends used to say they wished their mum & dad were like us. As recently as last Dec when we went on a family holiday people said we must be really good parents becos our kids were so sorted!

Well - I am trying to keep hold of that - what we did have - it was very very good for a long time. I never want to lose sight of that or forget it, even though at the moment it causes me a lot of pain. And at the same time - I know that he is not that person anymore.

I think it's hard for me to say - well - it happens to a lot of people, & I am one of those people.

Sorry - feeling sad tonight. The girls are not here (on various family visits) - on my own in the house. Started out on some of my "list" activities i.e. beginning to move some furniture around, make some changes. Need to make the place feel different.

[jools]

Hi Wysi
Thanks for your response on my thread. I sent my H a long "cross" E-mail last night. Just my way of getting things off my chest without getting upset or it becoming an argument. I know a lot of the things I said will hurt him greatly - but that wasn't the aim of it. I just want to shake him out of his cuckoo land. I pointed out that he's emotionally neglected his girls for the past 3 years too -- having spent no real meaninful family fun time with them --- the sort of times that create happy memories. Pointed out that he could never get that back. The sad thing is that he adores his girls and would do anything for them - but he was too wrapped up in his own miseries to connect with them. I also told him that I regretted marrying him. I know that is a bit of an "ouch" statement - but if you look at it logically - if someone told me before marrying him that he wouldn't be able to keep to his wedding vows then I would have said "no thanks". So I guess it's true. I also asked whether he'd wish a husband like himself on our daughters (ouch again - but true).
I feel that he's put me in a dilema. Whereas I hope to eventually meet someone else - if I do so while just separated then that's adultery - and if I divorce him then I'm breaking all my marriage vows. I know he's initiated it all - but does that release me from my vows (it does say "till death"). Didn't think I was particularly religious - but this is something that I took/take seriously. I just instinctively feel that this is all wrong. It's crazy! I crave that feeling of normality. Fed up of marking time. Doing things just to "fill" time. Good days and bad days. And not being in control of how you feel each day (which is good and which is bad).

Bet you're dreading Christmas already, Wysi? Me too. Only one day -- but such a build up! My mum just rang while i'm typing. She commented that I sounded "flat". It's awful that my mum gets the brunt of my fed-upness. She checks what I'm doing today and what I did yesterday etc. then sounds like she's upset too (though she's strong and hides it well). So now I'm upset. Guess this has started as a bad day. Not much help really, am I? Still, I'll come back and share a good day with you too.
Jools XXXX
________
Bondage asian (http://www.****tube.com/categories/370/asian/videos/1)

[Primrose]

Hi Jools,


I'm fairly new to the site (posting that is) but I have been reading up on peoples threads for a while and have just read your enteries for the last two days. Can I just tell you what a relief I felt when I read your post. I don't mean that in a bad way or anything its just that you just put down exactly what has been going on in my head of late. I am a year and four months separated and am currently going through a legal separation and buying out the family home. My husband told me he didn't love me when our son was four months old. Married 8 years and together 13 years. There were a few problems in the marriage but mainly in his head and what he thought marraige was really all about. I won't go into it now cause this thread is about something else. I really, really feel the exact same as you that I am just existing - minding my son, going to work, cleaning the house, filling in my time at weekends. I keep getting told that I will have a better life at the end of all of this than my ex ever will but I don't really believe that. He has a hobby that takes up all his time and he has lots of single friends that he can go out with. He has already been dating people and I haven't even had a sniff of a date. Not that I'm ready yet but it would be nice to think I could attract a nice man. Do you feel all the time that things will never improve and even when you are out with friends or colleagues that there is something missing - I do feel like that all the time. I am starting counselling in the next week or so to try and get help with building up my life again. Most of my life revolved around my husband and caring for him but I know I didn't really feature as strongly in his life so that's why he isn't having as hard a time as me. A lot of his problems are down to pure selfishness and I'm not trying to have a go about him its just the way it is. I long for the night when I'm in bed and I suddenly realise I had a great day and he didn't even come into my head at all. I know that I am lucky that I am in a position to buy my home and that's great but I loved him so much and when I go out and have fun with my son I also feel a great sadness that he isn't there with us as a family.

One of my main worries is that I don't feel that I have enough opportunity to meet somebody nice. I have nice friends in work - all married or engaged but there isn't a huge social scene. My home friends are all well settled and most on their 2nd baby and we only go out now and again. I know going out clubbing isn't the only way to meet people and I don't want to go down that road - anyhow I am minding my son who is only one and a half so this time is precious to me and I should be spending it with him.

I'm exactly like you and very impatient to have peace of mind and contentment. I've been told by many that it will come eventually and they can't all be wrong - its just that a lot of the time I feel that life is passing me by and I'm not enjoying it as much as I should be. Also I know that my husband really regrets what he did and would turn the clock back and try to get help if he could. Unfortunately things went too far for that and I couldn't trust him again and I think he would do it to me five years down the line when there may even be another child involved.

One leap I have made is that I used to go to bed praying for him to come back but now I just hope and pray that I will be sent somebody else. You're email made me feel so much better to know I wasn't alone in feeling like this.

Keep the faith Jools.

[jools]

Hi Primrose
I'm sure Wysi will excuse me replying to you on her thread (we're all in the same boat!). You've got it tough because you have such a young child. That means that you can't just go out when you please - and anyway you feel that you should be there for him. I suppose it's easier for me as my girls are old enough to be supportive and relatively independent. They also provide company for me in the evenings (when they're in!) and can raise my spirits when I feel low. But on the other hand you have the benefit of being young. And if you did meet someone else (which you probably will do) you could even have children with your new partner (if you wanted to).
Is there a good or bad time for breakups to happen? I'm in my late forties and suddenly had to take up squash again in an attempt to get a social life for myself -and I've joined the running club! It's just that we can't give up. We know logically we'll get through this and odds on we'll be happy again - it's just SO BLOODY annoying having to go through it all. And that question WHEN??? No one can tell us. And ultimately we are the only ones who can do it. It takes real effort; but one day, Primrose, the effort will become pleasure and we'll feel at peace in our own homes and our own bodies. We CAN do it. We have to believe that.
Jools. XXXXX
________
SHOWER MOVIES (http://www.****tube.com/categories/37/shower/videos/1)

[Kimberley]

Hi Jools

Excuse me invading your thread - I totally agree about having to get a social life again. Most of my friends are married or attached and there are often times when my ex has the children and Im available and my friends arent so end up on my own. I just please myself now - go to the beach, for walks, drives starting back at the gym (not sure Ill meet someone when sweaty) and swimming. I have an active social life mainly revolving round my children. Dosent mean your not lonely and is it me at the moment but every where you go there are happy couples hand in hand.

Im sure all our efforts will pay off - Ive lost weight which has cheered me up and trying to lose some more. The bed is still a lonely place but at least there is no snorring and theres always the cat to keep me warm.

Sometimes it makes me angry because I feel I did not sign up for single life again because I enjoy being married and loving and caring for someone and it was not my choice but I guess things happen for a reason.

Take Care
Love Kimberley X

[Primrose]

Hi Jools,

What thread do you normally post on so we can keep in touch and give each other a shoulder to cry on when we feel bad. I am 33 and even at that I still would feel will I ever have another baby. I am very much a homemaker and a family person. I get on really well with my family but I am the youngest and they all live away so we don't see each other very often and I really wanted nothing more than a little family of my own. Funny thing is that my ex felt that he was a real family man and he wanted the same things but he walked out as soon as his son came along. He was a planned and much wanted child too by the way. He will deny to his grave that his walking out had anything to do with the baby but I know deep down it was. Not just the baby but the whole responsibility thing. Looking back he lead very much a single man's life during our marriage and I do blame myself for letting him do that but to be honest he would have been gone a long time ago if I had been having a go at him over all the partying and going out socialising. He sees his son and I know he does love him but I feel really disappointed that he did not grow up and become a mature person and stay for him and me too. We didn't argue much but to be honest anytime I let him know I was upset about something he did he would always act as if our marriage was really bad and it was far from it. He only ever complained and said the marraige was bad when he wasn't getting away with things. I know I could not spend the rest of my life thinking he was going to leave everytime we had a row. Its draining emotionally. He is only happy when things are brilliant and there is no problems but unfortunately life is not like that. I wonder will he find somebody that is perfect for him down the line. I will find it really upsetting and I hate to think he might change and learn from the mess he made with me and become a great husband to somebody else. I really question his true feelings for me as he had a girlfriend a couple of months ago. A girl from work and its over now, seemingly, due to the fact that her parents didn't approve of the fact that she was seeing a separated man that had a young child. Sounds a bit weird to me cause I think she is around the 30 age mark. I feel really weird thinking of him with somebody else but I know of course its going to happen.

[jools]

Hi Kimberley and Primrose

Kimberley: Sometimes it makes me angry because I feel I did not sign up for single life again because I enjoy being married and loving and caring for someone and it was not my choice Absolutely!!! My sentiments exactly.

Primrose: I will find it really upsetting and I hate to think he might change and learn from the mess he made with me and become a great husband to somebody else. Now that would be bloody annoying --- but it is also be highly unlikely!


I am 33 and even at that I still would feel will I ever have another baby. I am very much a homemaker and a family person.
Don't worry you're still very young and bags of time for more babies! I know women who've had them in their forties. That's the trouble; we worry about life's uncertainties. Many women of your age haven't even met love number one. You did it once and you'll do it again (though a bit more reliable next time!). It's just that life's so easy when you're in a relationship and now we have to make that extra effort to meet people and get out there - and it's not something we've chosen.
Jools XXXXX
PS) Start a thread of your own if you want to Primrose and i'll reply on that --- though we all tend to jump on and off each other's!
________
HOW TO ROLL A BLUNT (http://howtorollablunt.net/)

[wysi]

I don't think it matters which thread we all respond to each other on - the thing is to keep the converstaions going because we all get a lot of help from it.

I am having an "OKish" day today - but I know that I will still have a lot of really bad days. It is much better when I don't have to have any contact with H - I do feel some emotional distance from him now as I have begun to accept that as he is now he is not a person I like. I still tend to start having convos with him in my head - but nothing like as often as when he was pretending to try & save our marriage - I was always then thinking that I would be able to say something that would suddenly make the scales fall from his eyes & he would realise what he was doing and what he was at risk of losing. Of course that never happened.

Primrose - it is terribly sad when M ends whatever age you are - and I know you feel just as bad as I do (I am around the same age as Jools from what she has said). However I think it is true that there is more chance of eventually finding another partner - if that is what has to happen - in your 30's.

Jools - you mentioned somewhere about "Christmas". I am trying v hard not to think ahead to things like that - or birthdays etc. Also you have posted about emailing your H & phoning him - I get that desire as well but I so far have resisted it. That is mainly I think because of what I wrote above - I KNOW now that he cannot hear me. He has not heard my pain ever since he told me about the A, and I even have to contemplate that he will never have the slightest clue about it. I try to tell myself that that makes him a much shallower and less complete person than myself. I'm not saying this works (!) but it is a mechanism I am trying. Also - maybe people who can feel such lows are also capable of experiencing greater joys as well?

I see I am writing in a more positive way although I still actually feel completely bereft but I am trying hard not to dwell on the negative. It is better to be alone than to be with some-one who lies/cheats and treats you with contempt.

[Primrose]

Good afternoon all,

Thanks for all the responses to my posts. Its great to talk about the whole thing with people in the same boat. A really wise lady how I admire and value the opinion of told me that I need to speak to people in the same boat because as good as my friends are to me they have no idea what I'm going through really.

WYSI I sometimes think I'm going mad having imaginary conversations in my head and glad to hear I'm not the only one. I know I will never have a conversation again with my ex cause any time he hears something he doesn't like he acts really sensitive and walks away. He can't take any type of criticism at all. So Jools you don't think he'll change - I'm not sure but if he goes on and meets a girl that he falls madly in love with and sets up home with again he won't want to lose it all - he has said to me in the past he has lost so much but its daft really cause he walked out - I didn't want him to go but he said he was so unhappy. Plus he spoke to a work colleague about all the problems not to any of our mutual friends and I think that's because his friends and family knew me and would have told him he was mad but this other person didn't know me at all and he is quite popular in work so they would probably have thought that he must be married to an awful old cow as he had to leave his lovely home and lovely new baby.

I so want in my head for him to have a string of broken relationships so I can say to myself "it wasn't just me". Do any of you believe in fate and if I am meant to meet somebody it will just happen. I'm afraid I'm starting to lose a bit of faith I think. I went to a fortune teller and he told me I would meet somebody next year - don't really believe in all of this I just went cause I was having a bad day and needed a bit of hope. I'd love to think of my ex getting upset if I met another man but the trouble is I honestly don't think he would cause I'm sure by that time he'll be in a relationship. He has told me that he feels guilty for leaving us and won't be happy until I am truly happy. He also said that he doesn't know if he will ever be happy no matter what he does in life cause he has issues that can't be helped. How can somebody who had alot - a home, car, wife, baby, money to go out, didn't get hassled over his hobby that took up lots of time, never had to do housework, cooking, never had to do the finances of the house, could go out with his mates whenever - be so unhappy with his lot in life. He told me that he felt I wasn't affectionate enough with him and that I hardly ever initiated things which was proabably true to a certain extent but he never addressed this problem properly. He ran from it. I'm killed over the last year trying to think what he was doing to try and spoil me or make me feel loved and I can't think of anything. The amount of times he went out and didn't come home till about 4.30 am in the morning drinking and spending all his money on drink even when I was pregnant. I know in my heart and soul he was doing this cause he wanted to but he has since told me that he was only doing that to escape cause he was so unhappy. I have talked to friends of mine about this cause it upset me and they feel he is lying cause he was always in good form the next day provided I didn't have a go at him and also when he would be getting ready to go out he would be doing himself up and singing along to background music and asking me if he looked okay. He would go out with lad friends - I could have gone along but knew I wasn't really wanted and wasn't the place for me.

I now know that I shouldn't have put up with that sort of behaviour but did cause I wanted him to be happy. He never brought me flowers (once when I passed my driving test), chocolates, any type of pressies, we always paid our own way when out, never booked a meal unexpectedly, never bought me any nice underwear and never brought me away for a weekend or on holiday - I was always the one to arrange everything. I'm not materialistic and could do without any of the above but just wondering why he never did it and think that his life was so bad and that we were just like brother and sister - I got that line as well.

Any thoughts/opinions please?

[jools]

Hi Primrose
My only thoughts on all of this is that I can totally relate to everything you've said. But I do think that it's only us females that seem to run scenarios and possibilities through our heads over and over and over... It's our way of trying to rationalise everything that's happened. Men don't seem to analyse to the same extent (well most don't anyway). And that's why I don't think your H will change his behaviour with another woman -- because he wouldn't be arsed to really examine how he's behaved with a view to improving things! Whereas it's our way of processing the hurt. But there has to come a time when you just give up and realise that it's hopeless. Funnily enough it was something Graham said in his thread last night about "giving up" that made me realise that that's EXACTLY what I have to do. Not that i'll achieve it immediately - but that's my aim. We have to move on. There's nothing we can do to affect the way that they think or their perceptions. Just because we see something a certain way we assume that they must also --- but i've realised that my H's perceptions are TOTALLY different to mine.

The bit about the fortune teller rang true too. I've had friends asking if I'm tempted - and while dismissing it I found myself picking up a pack of playing cards and going onto google to find out how to read them! It's just a reaction to our burning desire to know that there IS a way out of this --- back to happiness. Nothing's certain in life, but I do believe that we create our own opportunities. And I've noticed that when I'm feeling positive, positive things happen. So yes, it's highly likely that you'll meet someone else --- but you have to get through the sh**ty part first! Move past obsessing towards indifference, THEN you'll be ready. Unfortunately it is true that time will sort what reason cannot. It's just SO bloody annoying having to waste so much precious time while the healing takes place. But we'll all hang in there and keep each other posted.
Love Jools. XXXXX
________
ZOLOFT DEATH (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

[wysi]

Bad time this evening. H is to collect one of our Ds tomorrow to take her to airport on Sunday. Last time we spoke we agrd I would let him know what time she wanted to be collected. So - sent him a txt abt the arrangements at 6pm this evening. Have had nothing back. Bit miserable knowing that's becos he is out and about enjoying his "freedom" while I am stuck here packing. However much I know I don't want the lying bastard back I am still ANGRY that he is just having fun while I am basically still in pieces. I know - no-one ever said that life was fair. But Still.

[tiamaria]

dear primrose,
did we marry the same man everything you have mentioned about your husband happened to me he did everything he wanted too i loved being with my husband & son, i did enjoy going out but much perferred a family night in.
i think the more you give the more they take. i too would have my husband back tomorrow i think i walk around with blinkers on i can see that what he has done to me is wrong but i am willing to forgive & forget i have been with him almost half my life i dont realy know any other life apart from being with him, i miss him so much i cant imagine not being with him this time next year.
he is going to visit his parents next week the first time since our seperation i just hope they can knock some sence into him but at the moment i dont know where i stand with them when he first left me they said that i would always be their daughter in law and that what he has done was wrong but i have not received a phone call from them in weeks, i dont want to phone them as i feel i was the bearer of bad news all the time, i know he is their son but i did nothing wrong and you would have thought they would want to know how their grandchild was doing i dont know what he has said i have done.
anyway i think our situation is rather similar and i hope we can chat more often

[Primrose]

Hi folks,

Haven't had a chance to reply until now. I had no internet access over the weekend and was then out with a bug. Thanks for all the replies. It really helps to talk here and it cheers me up no end. I'm not fishing for compliments or anything but its just reassuring to hear others telling me I deserve better than I got. My ex is not a bad person, I get so upset thinking about all the laughs we had but he is just selfish to the extreme. In fact I was only talking to my sister about it at the weekend and found myself saying that I have never experienced anything like the selfishness that is in him to do what he did. I have never been asked one in a year and a half am I coping financially. He just assumes that I am cause I work and am in the family home. He promised when he has spare cash to buy the baby something nice or give me money for his account and I only ever got this once - I think it was the weekend he was dumped by his new love interest. Her excuse was seemingly that her parents found out that he was separated and had a child and did not approve of her seeing him so she ended it. I find that really strange because as far as I know she would be 30ish - a bit strange to be listening to your parents about love interests unless things were really bad.

Tiamaria our situations seem to be pretty similar except for one major difference. I do NOT want my husband back. He wanted to come back to me earlier on in the year and he gave me a big speech which I listened to. I told him that he would have to change his ways such as - all his ignoring me for days on end if there was a row and basically treating me like a dog on the street and also about all the boozing and clubing. He said he was going to get counselling and sort himself out and prove to me that he could change and that he had hit rock bottom and realised all he had lost. Then over the weekend he thought about what I had said about changing and having to face my family who basically hate him and he changed his mind and said he couldn't face things - isn't that just unreal and shows how insincere he really is.

I could never try again with him because as I told him "whatever about my heart being broken I will not let you break my sons". My baby doesn't know any different at the moment and will never know what its like to have a Dad living with him which isn't ideal but I have no doubt that my ex would leave again at some stage and my son would be devastated and torn between us. Also I don't trust him or have any respect for him as a person or a father. He hasn't shown any great interest in his son. He does see him every week but he won't put himself out at all. I know deep down I still love him but I can't live my life every time I'm annoyed with him not saying anything cause I'm afraid he'll leave me. Also I do think I deserve a lot better than I got from him. As I said he is not a bad person, he can be quite sensitive but I really do not think I was ever no. 1 in his life. He thought about himself first all the time. I think its the companionship that I miss more than him. I also felt at the time that it would be me doing all the work to repair the marraige. It was like he wanted to come back on his terms and if he wanted to walk again he would and he would be able to tell people that he tried really hard and it didn't work. I'm sure my ex had feelings for me but I don't believe that he loved me in the way that a husband should love a wife. I used to get so jealous of my friends when they'd show me nice clothes or underwear or jewellery that their husbands/partners had bought for them - it was so thoughtful. Or if their husbands would take them away just to acknowledge how much they meant to them. I never got anything like that and to be honest I think if I do meet another man before I got serious I would be very honest about what type of commitment I expect. In other words - spending quality time with me and wanting to be with me not watching the door of the pub to see if any other couples come in that we could sit with and spending a little time in my family's company and to actually enjoy it not carrying on like its a chore and looking bored. Is that too much to ask - I think I am pretty low maintenance compared to other girls I know.