What is right or wrong in seperation?

[blackbeard]

Hi All,
Seperated from my wife in January this year after finding out that she is having an affair (previously documented on this board). I have now moved out of the marital home. My question is what is now that I am away from the family home I want to move on in my life but what are the rights and wrongs of moving on?
I have met a couple of other women since the seperation neither of which is serious or has gone beyond a few meetings, both are in other long term relationships one of which has since ended and the other (a marriage) is in serious trouble. Am I right to be dating so soon after the seperation? should I be dating people that are in relationships? Should I end these relationships for fear of being on the rebound? How long should you be seperated before embarking on new adventures?
The problem is that I still have constant contact with my wife due to the children and go to the marital home almost daily to see them and so letting go is rather difficult. It is almost like I am leading a double life at the moment, when does all of this get any easier?

[Helen]

Blackbeard,

There are no hard and fast rules about when it is the right time to begin dating. No one is going to point fingers if you find a woman straight away - the important thing is that you feel ready to do it. The only point I would want to make here is are you talking separation as a precursor to ending your marriage or are you supposed to be taking time out to work on your marriage? If you are getting divorced, it is perhaps best to instigate this action before you start dating. Otherwise, your wife could countersue you for adultery. If you are supposed to be working on your marriage via a managed separation, then it is probably best not to date at all as, technically, you are still attached. As for dating people who are in relationships, I wouldn't. They are attached (as good as married) therefore if you get involved with them, it is tantamount to having an affair. That said, it depends on the nature of their relationships but I generally would steer clear.

If you and your wife have not discussed the terms of your separation, I would suggest you do so before you do anything re dating - otherwise you could find yourself in more hot water.

On your point about letting go, it is difficult when you see your wife on a daily basis. But to start this process (if indeed you are divorcing) I would limit your conversation to the kids and only the kids. So no enquiries after her health, no concern about how she is managing, that sort of thing and absolutely no kisses and cuddles. If you are going to be apart permanently, her welfare (beyond as the mother of your children) will no longer be your responsibility or concern and you should start to view her in that light.


Helen

[blackbeard]

Of course I think about what the women are doing to their relationships, and I talked to them about it prior to getting involved clearly stating how I felt and how their partners will feel, I don't want to put anyone through what I have been through recently.
Our seperation is based on ending the marriage, something that I want to do sooner rather than later, however financial constraints restrict my ability to do this, so should I not be able to move on anyway and get on with enjoying my life and playing the field a little?

[Helen]

Blackbeard,

If you are both clear that you are going to get divorced, there is no reason why you shouldn't date. These women who are in relationships - I am not sure why you are even asking if it is right to go there. You know it isn't. It doesn't matter what you explain to them if they are attached, they are attached and therefore unavailable. If they are deadly keen to go out with you, they will unattach themselves - otherwise they won't and you should look elsewhere. After all, it is not as though there is a woman shortage, is it?


Helen

[blackbeard]

Helen,

Thank you for your reasoning, I know you to be an honest and respectful poster on this board through reading other posts and advice that you have given. As I stated in the first post one of the people that I have been involved with since seperating has ended their relationship, the other is an ex from a long time ago thatI just so happened to bump into and this has gone no further than texting. chatting etc with just one meeting where nothing further happended. However it still somehow feels like cheating.
I do not wish to harm anyone in the way that I have been harmed in the past and for this reason I have advised her to talk to her husband about their relationship.
I don't think that there is a woman shortage, even though it seemed that way in my teens!! but I am not very outgoing and have found it difficult talking to women in the past so I am not really used to the dating game.
I also have a horrible feeling that unintentionally I am doing this all to prove a point to my wife that I don't need her and that I consider what she has done to be wrong

[greeneyes]

Hi Blackbeard (you sound like a pirate!!lol)
There are no rights or wrongs, its about doing what you feel is the right thing to do, and about thinking of YOURSELF for a change
Dont touch women who are in another relationship.
These women..if they are cheating, will probably cheat on you too and you dont want to have to go through the mill again do you?
I would say they ARE cheating if they are meeting another man, texting and chatting to him without their partner's knowing, as often these tell tale signs are the start of an affair.
You probably are doing it to show your wife you dont need her, but there is nothing wrong with that, its natural and i think in some ways it is healthy too.....look for female friends rather than a relationship and develop on that.
Have fun, just dont jump into anything just yet..

[Hope]

Seeing as you and your W both agree that your marriage has ended and you are officially separated then its ok to date if you feel ready.

BUT..... I do believe in having some standards and I think its wrong to date others who are still in relationships! By all means date again but PLEASE choose someone that is uncomplicated and not involved with someone else. Like I say not only is it wrong its not going to do you any good.

As for the re-bound subject I think its an individual thing really. When my ex left I longed for a new man to notice me, chat me up and date me but only because I wanted to feel special and loved again. I didn't date anyone straight after my ex left and I'm actually glad that I didn't now because I know I wasn't really ready for it. My initial feelings were rebound and I'm glad I didn't act on them - I wasn't ready and I certainly wasn't over my ex. However, 20 months down the line and I'm definately ready for a new relationship and I don't have any doubts now!

Good luck

[Ginger God]

Ahoy there me hearties....


Blackbeard, shortly after separating I met a lovely girl who had been separated for 8 months. We went out a few times and got on really well but it became apparent that there was no way I was ready for a relationship so soon after separating. I thought I was but it couldnt have been further from the truth. It was the girl I met who eventually got it through to me that I wasnt ready, I am still far too raw and there are far too many emotions running around my head for me to start another relationship. But that is just me, you may be ready but you wont know until you try. It is an absolute minefield after separating some days I just want to end quickly others drag on for ever.
Yes I want to be loved and wanted again but I am nowhere near ready yet.

[Helen]

Blackbeard,

It is entirely possible that you are doing this because you want to show your wife that you are desireable to other women and it's her loss. But your mind and emotions will not let you do anything that you are not ready to do. And I have to say, for someone who isn't outgoing and finds it hard to talk to women, you seem to be doing pretty well on the woman front! I appreciate that dating is another kettle of fish. It is hard when you have been married for a long time. All I will say is if you have any tips (when you do eventually start dating again) they will be gratefully received! :)

As Hope says, it is best to try to go for women who have no attachments otherwise you are doing to their partners what your wife did to you. You say it feels like cheating. That is because it is. As you say, you know how bad you felt about finding out about your wife's affair. No way do you want to do that to another guy.

It sounds to me as though you aren't ready to date yet. There isn't any rush. If I were you I would get used to being a single father and try to develop a routine so that you can take care of your kids and do things with them without your wife's help. As AlwaysGreen says, your wife is going to make plans that do not include the kids if it is your turn to have them and that isn't unreasonable. I would also think about some individual counselling for yourself because coming to terms with an affair and the end of a marriage can be difficult. Very difficult indeed.

Take care,


Helen

[blackbeard]

I think there maybe a couple of points here that need clarification;
I am ready to file for divorce as soon as possible financially (it's not cheap!!) however she hasn't got a clue about this and thinks that it will be OK if we seperate and divoroce after two years, this way her affair doesn't get exposed and she can carry on keeping all her friends and family in the dark and lying to them.
Also I know I am not ready for a serious relationship, I am not talking about falling in love again or anything like that, for that to happen I know it will take time for my emotions etc to sort themselves out. So all I am doing at the moment is looking for people to have some fun with without all the emotional ties that it can bring.
Fact is I hate her and the OM with all the passion that I once loved her with, she is evil personified, when it came to telling the children she just stood back and said that 'Daddys got something to say' she even had a go at me afterwards for crying in front of the children while telling them, for gods sake who could look into a 7 year olds eyes and break their heart like that without breaking down? He has done this before and will do it again if something isn't done to stop him. However I digress, this is supposed to be about me rather than them.

If the women are grown consenting adults well aware of their own situation (as my wife was) and are making all the running with me just being grateful for the attention and accepting the situation, the temptation can be too great.

Helen, I don't have any tips on dating I feel almost like I am starting out as a teenanger all over again, I just want to have a laugh and a joke without the pressures of a relationship right now.

Blackbeard.

[Helen]

Hi Blackbeard,

No problem with the dating tips! I have been separated 8 months and my divorce was finalised on 13th March so I am not ready to plunge into that either. In fact, I am not ready to have fun yet either - in that way, anyway. I am content to potter around my home or go out for drinks and coffee with friends.

It sounds as though you want to divorce on the grounds of your wife's adultery. You can do this but children will complicate thing as you need to make arrangements for them too. What are your custody arrangements? I seem to recall that your wife was/is uncaring about your financial situation and, despite earning good money herself, wants you to pay for as much as possible. Have you had any legal advice? I ask these questions because the minute you file for divorce on the grounds of her adultery, you can bet that she will turn even nastier.

Incidentally, you only get 6 months from the date of discovery to file on these grounds so you haven't got much time to sort out arrangements for the kids if you intend to divorce her for cheating on you. As for hating her - be aware it can become all consuming, even if you don't intend it to. I hated my ex and his mistress for 6 months after we split and all it did was make me seriously ill. Eventually I realised I had to let it go for the sake of my health and my sanity. Just something to think about...


Helen

[Ginger God]

I think there maybe a couple of points here that need clarification;
I am ready to file for divorce as soon as possible financially (it's not cheap!!) however she hasn't got a clue about this and thinks that it will be OK if we seperate and divoroce after two years, this way her affair doesn't get exposed and she can carry on keeping all her friends and family in the dark and lying to them.
Also I know I am not ready for a serious relationship, I am not talking about falling in love again or anything like that, for that to happen I know it will take time for my emotions etc to sort themselves out. So all I am doing at the moment is looking for people to have some fun with without all the emotional ties that it can bring.
Fact is I hate her and the OM with all the passion that I once loved her with, she is evil personified, when it came to telling the children she just stood back and said that 'Daddys got something to say' she even had a go at me afterwards for crying in front of the children while telling them, for gods sake who could look into a 7 year olds eyes and break their heart like that without breaking down? He has done this before and will do it again if something isn't done to stop him. However I digress, this is supposed to be about me rather than them.

If the women are grown consenting adults well aware of their own situation (as my wife was) and are making all the running with me just being grateful for the attention and accepting the situation, the temptation can be too great.

Helen, I don't have any tips on dating I feel almost like I am starting out as a teenanger all over again, I just want to have a laugh and a joke without the pressures of a relationship right now.

Blackbeard.

Blackbeard... my wife did exactly the same with me... she couldnt utter the words and I couldnt for crying although nothing was said after our talk with the kids.
You did the hardest thing that you will ever have to do in your life and like me you did it because there was no option.
I have gone through the hate/despise bit and to be honest at this moment I dont know how I feel... empty I suppose.
However for what she has done to me I forgive her but for what she made me tell the kids I will never forgive her.
Graham

[blackbeard]

Helen, I have spoken to a solicitor, who advised that it would be better to divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour rather than adultery, that way I can put all the details of what has been done in the petition and it is less likely to be defended and so incur fewer costs. Whether that is enough for me I don't know but divorce is a financial nightmare and I just don't think I can afford to start the process at the moment.

Ginger, I can understand how you feel I know that I will never forgive her for putting me through that, I don't think I can forgive her for creating the whole situation in the first place, but to know that you have been able to do that helps.

Right now I don't know what I am going to do about that situation, but as I have been advised on here and by others I must try to remove myself from those feelings and concentrate on myself and I just want to be happy, whether that is on my own, or with someone else, life is way too short for moping around. It just so happens that these feelings creep up on you when you are not thinking about them and it kind of ruins my day when they do.

[Ginger God]

Blackbeard mate.... I am six months down the line .... you have a lot of bad days still to come unfortunately.

Apparently I am not in a black hole but in a tunnel!

[blackbeard]

A Tunnel???? Feels more like a funnel that is sucking me in preparing me to be chewed and spat out at the other end!!

[Ginger God]

Bit of advice.. go and hit something ... preferrably not a human or an animal or anything that will hurt. Guaranteed you will feel better after this. Walls arent good because they are stronger than your fists.

Pillows and duvets are good!

Yup... lifes a bitch... then you die.............

[greeneyes]

hey guys
tunnel, or black hole - please remember it does get better, you just have to kind of hang on there ok?
Friend of mine took up kick boxing when his marriage died, (after breaking 3 fingers laying into his wardrobe!) he found it a good stress release!

[Ginger God]

hey guys
tunnel, or black hole - please remember it does get better, you just have to kind of hang on there ok?
Friend of mine took up kick boxing when his marriage died, (after breaking 3 fingers laying into his wardrobe!) he found it a good stress release!

Greeneyes... I know but its at times like these that nothing anyone says can make the pain go away.

[blackbeard]

It also creeps up on you whenever you least expect it, at work, at home, in the pub with friends, it suddenly pops up in your head for no reason and when it does I just cannot seem to think about anything else.
I can't punch my colleague, or start doing kickboxing in the middle of the office, I try to get on with my work but just can't seem to concentrate on anything, hence I look at this forum and hope that some of the good advice that I have recieved in the past is forthcoming again.
It does help to know that other people are going through similar things, but it doesn't make the memory of my childrens faces when I told them go away.

[greeneyes]

I know guys
a friend said to me "if you allow him to get to you like that he is winning - dont let him win" does that ake any sense?
I had to smile at the picture of you going kick boxing in the office though !
Work does suffer, mine did and I am a CEO, thank god I was able to hang onto it - have you tried having a word with your work about your circumstances, most are very sympathetic
Even now memories of my H pops up it is like a huge spider in the corner of the room..I cope but every now and again it moves when you least expect it.
The children makes it so much more painful...I am not sure what you mean when you said
when I told them go away?

[blackbeard]

I am not sure what you mean when you said
when I told them go away?[/QUOTE]

I meant that I can't make the memory go away of when I told them that 'Daddy was going to live somewhere else'

[greeneyes]

thanks for explaining, as they are young do they know why?, while I have never been one to advocate using children as a pawn in breakdowns, they need to know that it is nothing to do with them, and you (both) still love them - is the other man living with your W?

[blackbeard]

We explained to them that Mummy and Daddy just aren't getting along anymore and that we thought it would be better if Daddy moved out, the atmosphere at home was dreadful prior to my moving out so we said that we thought it would mean that the time either of us spent with them would be better quality happier time. We always emphasise how much we love them.
No the other M is not living with my wife he is living with his own wife (which he will never leave) and teenage daughter.

[Ginger God]

I have been away for 7 weeks now and my wee one has only cried twice when leaving mum to be with dad for a few days. That just starts me off although you try very hard not to let it show.

I wish I knew what was really going on in their heads.

Having tea with my older girl tonite, need to see where the conversation goes about mum and dad.

[blackbeard]

I see my two whenever I want to, even pop over in the evenings to give them their bath and put them to bed, that's the easy bit as I then read them their story and they are asleep before I leave.

I was there the other day though and my eldest daughter (7) just burst into tears and asked why Mummy and Daddy were splitting up, I managed to keep it together then but that day when I walked out of the house I was so angry I felt like I was capable of anything.

It is the younger ones birthday next week not sure how that is going to be handled, do we buy seperate presents, or do we get a better present from Mummy and Daddy? Do I invite my family to her party? all of these things need to be sorted out but without arguing or accusing and I am not sure that it can be done as she tends to say one thing and do another every time we agree on something she goes the other way!!

[greeneyes]

I divorced my first husband ( my childrens father - for adultery) when the children were 6 and 7 yrs old (they are now 21 and 22)
both have told me they are glad myself and my first husband remained on amicable terms, and we continued to "share" events such as birthdays, together as much as possible ( and put our differences aside for the day) we shared christmas and new year (e.g one year christmas with mum and new year with dad, then the following year the other way around) oh its not easy and when i remarried my second husband made sure it was as uncomfortable as hell. for presents i would discuss with their dad what he was going to get them, and fix a price together ( makes sense inc ase you duplicate presents too!) so there was no "rivalry". We would sometimes chip in together to buy a present if it was a large one but we would both contribute the same to make it fair.
All I can say is judging from what my children have told me now as adults, try to share this birthday and involve your family..you cant go wrong by showing you are being a responsible parent?
Perhaps you can ask your wife if for this once you can do it for the childrens sake, if she is a good mother she will be bound to agree.
If she wont she isnt fit to be one!

[Ginger God]

My sons birthday was only a week after I left so he still got a card that said mum and dad as were his presents. My oldest girl is 17 in two weeks and I have yet to discuss with ex what we are to do.

[willmetts]

hey guys
tunnel, or black hole - please remember it does get better, you just have to kind of hang on there ok?
Friend of mine took up kick boxing when his marriage died, (after breaking 3 fingers laying into his wardrobe!) he found it a good stress release!


i'm starting kickboxing tomorrow night will let you know if it helps!!!