i've cheated & lied

[jack]

this is a long & complicated story & i'm not really sure what i expect to get out of this but i would welcome any comments or advice from anyone who has the patience to read the following. The main reason I am writing this is because i had an affair for 2 years & then spent 2 years lying about the extent of it after I was caught. My wife is now considering ending our marriage (can't blame her) & it has caused us to re-examine the whole basis of our relationship which has lasted nearly 20 years.

I'll start with the affair. Abour 8 years ago we moved from a large city to a very isolated rural area - we moved because my wife had found a job she really wanted but we had been looking to move out of the city anyway but couldn't really afford to - this job paid relocation expenses & came with a council house. So there was no question of me being forced into the move - I was as keen as my wife. We had a 10 year old son & a 4 month old daughter. We agreed at the start that I would stay at home & look after the kids with a view to finding some suitable work. After a few months I found a part time job which I could easily combine with child care. Took my daughter to Parent & Toddlers & met a number of other parents - one of whom was more friendly & welcoming than the rest. As a new face in a small community I was glad of this. Over the next 4 years my wife & I had another baby - a boy & life continued fairly uneventfully - We started socialising with OW & her husband & I did some childminding for her kids. We always got on well but there was never anything more than that. In february 2002 she had a baby (her 4th) I knew she hadn't wanted any more and she had had a miserable pregnancy. I felt sympathetic towards her & I suppose that brought us closer. One day when the baby was about 4 months old we werre alone together in my house & we somehow ended up kissing - this was not planned or premeditated - it just happened - I was shocked but excited. I arranged to see her again - not difficult as we often met because of the children. I went to her house a few days later & we had sex. I take full responsibility for this but in fairness I think she was as keen as me. We carried on meeting for sex most weeks - at the start she was very cold & could not really enjoy sex - I took this as something of a challenge & soon she was able to open up. She was unhappy in her marriage & in retrospect was looking for a way out _ I on the other habd had no desire to leave my wife who i loved & still loved despite the fact that I was cheating on her. She had picked up some familiarity between me & OW & had tackled me several times on the subject - I lied & said there was nothing between us. This went on for 2 years on & off I was in total control of the relationship in terms of dictating when we would see each other & insisting we stopped during school holidays etc. I always made it clear to her that as far as I was concerned there was "no future" in our relationship & I made it clear I would not leave my wife. The sex was not particularily great & there was no romance - no presents - no time lying in bed talking after sex- no evening meetings - never ate a meal together - all things i would do with someone I loved. I have no doubt I did not love her. I think i got something out of the power that I had over this woman as opposed to my relationship with my wife where she is the stronger personality. Anyway in August 2004 we all went camping for a weekend with a couple of other families -Saturday night me & OW stayed up late & talked - we had had a lot to drink & i really don't remember much of conversation - My wife overheard some of it as she lay in her tent & confronted me next day. She had heard OW tell me she was unhappy & would leave her husband & there had been some talk of love. The rest was a bit vague. My wife said it was clear this was not a one off conversation but that something had been going on. Over the next few days which were very intense & emotional I concocted a story about us being close & having feelings for each other - but no sex. Eventually I persuaded my wife to accept this story & promised to have no more to do with OW. I did mean this when I said it but I felt some responsilbility to OW so agreed to meet her for a one off meeting to tell her face to face that i would not see her again. She was hysterical & accused me of all sorts of betrayal - she said she couldn't live without me etc. etc. I felt guilty as I felt I was responsible for the state she was in & also I was scared she might confront my wife which would have been the end of my marriage. I therefore agreed to keep in touch with her - by text - to support her while she got used to life without me. This I did - again I was in control - determining when she could & could not text me so as to minimise the chances of my wife finding out. We had text contact maybe 2 or 3 days a week - there was no sexual element to it & most of it was quite mundane gossip, news etc etc. She would sometimes get distraught & ask to see me - I never agreed to this but I did speak to her on the phone - I think 3 times - each time she wanted to increase contact - she said she loved me - each time I refused. After about a year she left her husband - again I made it clear she was leaving to be on her own - I even explained that if my marriage split up & i was on my own I would not go to her. The texting had become a habit -& she still appeard to rely on me - again there was no sexual element in the texts. All this time I was continuing to lie to my wife both about the original affair & about the continued text contact.

About 4 weeks ago I started to be suspicious of my wife & being a master in the art of deception I was quickly able to find out that she was pursuing some sort of relationship with one of our friends. I said nothing until one night when his wife was away my wife got me to ask him over for dinner. While I was supposedely in the kitchen fixing drinks or something I popped into the garden & spied them kissing through a gap in the curtains - I confronted them - He left - She was apologetic. that night & the next morning - she told me the whole story - There was not a lot to it but she owned up to it - phoned him up the next day - arranged to meet him & ended it there & then. We had a reconciliation in bed that night & felt really really close - i lay awake most of the night comparing the way she had dealt with the discovery of her fling with my reaction when I was found out. I felt absolutely dreadful. & I knew there & then that I could no longer lie to her. Whatever the cost I owed it to her to tell her the truth. The next day I phoned the OW & told her I was ending all contact with her & i planned to tell my wife the truth - i then phoned a friend to check that I could stay with him for a day or two if need be then sat my wife down & told her the whole story. She was absolutely horrified, devastated, incandescent with rage. She wanted to talk about it though so did not send me away & so it has been for the past 3 weeks. we have talked about it for hours & hours. I accept that she has the right to know whatever details she wants & have answered all her questions honestly - I have accepted that she has the right to decide whether she stays with me or not & i will respect that right. It is very difficult for her to leave because unlike many relationships I played if anything a greater role in bringing up the children than she did & geograhically she is a long way from any family who could offer her support.

As the position stands at present we have decided to move from this area - We socialised with 3 couples mainly - I have had an affair with the wife of one couple & my wife nearly had an affair with the husband of one of the other couples. And she has said she will stay with me at least until we move. But is is really really hard for her - she is constantly tortured by images of me and OW. There are lots of details which make it worse - Me & OW had sex in our bed ( now destroyed & disposed of!) my wife got OW a job while We were having an affair. OW was still breast feeding baby when Affair started. etc etc

I have written this in a fairly dispassionate way but I can assure any one who has got this far that I am in no way dispassionate - I have never felt worse in my entire life. I am not someone who shows emotions readily ( this has always been an issue between my wife & me) but I have cried & cried & cried. I have never hated myself like I do now. I look back on what I did & i do not understand how I could have been so bad for so long. There have been lots of problems in our marriage which may or may not have contributed to my behaviour. I am making no excuses though & i am taking full responsibility for my actions. I have been to the doctor & am getting counselling but have to wait 2-3 months. I think i have issues with feelings & emotions - have some ideas why that might be but need help to explore them.

Sorry this has been so long - it could have been twice the length - any comments would be appreciated - even if its just to tell me what a bustard i've been.

cheers

jack

[Helen]

Jack,

I am sure there will be plenty of comments but I am not sure what you will get out of them. I see from your other post that your wife also had an affair, a long time ago and her discovery of your activities came on the back of her being somewhat involved with a friend and almost having an affair with another man. How did you get through that? In one way, I can understand her rage. After all, having an affair for 2 years, no matter how detached, denotes a strong element of compulsion and a degree of committment on your part. Otherwise you would have given up this other woman a long time ago. For one reason or another, you kept it going. I suspect this is what upsets her in addition to having the images of you with the other woman in her head.

On the other hand, I do not understand her rage. After all, she has cheated on you at least once, maybe twice that you know of and would have cheated a third time. She talks about her feelings of betrayal but you must have felt similar feelings when you found out about her dalliances? Again, I ask - how did you get through this?

What of the other woman? I know you said you were in control and were careful to tell her you would never leave your marriage, etc., but at some point, she fell in love anyway. Were there any signs? And what is she doing at the moment, in terms of asking you to leave your wife?

I am not going to call you a bastard (except maybe for having sex in your marital bed. A big no no). I think you are in a very unfortunate situation and it is a trap a lot of people fall into when they start affairs. Kissing her may not have been premeditated but having sex with her was. I think you need to ask yourself why this happened because at the moment, you are glossing over the reasons. Even if your wife is a strong woman that is no reason to have an affair. My ex husband did something similar to me and I will never understand why he did that. I didn't change - well, I became more educated and assertive but I was still me - but at some point, he decided he wanted a change and went for it.

I suspect your wife's strength must have been one of the things that attracted you to her in the first place. So maybe this was a revenge affair, even though your motives may not have been so transparent at the outset..? Or was it the sex (even though it was no great shakes it was better than nothing, I am sure). Was there a drought at home?

What advice are you looking for Jack? That isn't clear from your post.


Helen

[jack]

thanks for your reply helen

You are right in pretty much everything that you say. Having read my other most you will know that i do not feel i dealt with my wife's affair at all well. I have always had some difficulty handling/expressing feelings and emotions ("no surprise - you're a man!" i hear you say) and this is one of the other issues i need to address. My wife is just the opposite - open & emotional. When I found out she had been having an affair I was very angry for a few days but decided to forgive her for a number of reasons. She was much younger than me - she got pregnant shortly after we met (she was 21 I was 30) & I understood that she felt she had "lost" her freedom. somehow I was able to forgive her & consider the matter closed virtually never to be discussed. I know now this was totally the wrong way to deal with it & did nether of us any favours. I have had problems with intimacy & emotions for most of our relationship - whether the way I dealt with the affair was a sympton of this or in some part a cause - who knows? My problems with handling emotions have caused me to reject my wife from time to time not overtly but just by not being interested in sex. However I don't want to paint to bleak a picture of our relationship - both of us would agree that there have been lots of positive aspects and we both truly love each other - although she does now have some doubts about my love for her (not surprisingly)
I take your point about the reason for the affair - I am not clear about this myself. I think partly it was just about availibility at a time when I wasn't feeling great about myself - however that does not explain the tine - I did want to end it but have always been a conflict avoider & as I say it was giving me something in terms of being loved & having power/control.
despite all our problems my wife & i still did have a sex life - sometimes very good though often disappointing - since the affair stopped two years ago this has in some part improved & the best sex I have ever had has definitely been with my wife.

I have told the OW that I want no further contact with me & she has made no attempt to contact me for three weeks. She was always very "obedient" so I really hope that will be the end of it.

I don't know what advice I am looking for - being the sort of man i am i don't really have the sort of friends i can talk to this about so mayble i am just looking to share this with someone. I have been using my wife as support which as i am sure you will agree is not ideal for either of us.

Thanks

Jack

[Helen]

Jack,

I find the fact that your wife is now questioning your love for her interesting. If she had no doubt that you loved her before she found out about your affair, why was she messing around with these other men? What was she looking for with them - do you know? I also wonder if she thinks your love is unconditional? It seems it's okay for her to mess around but not you? Why is that? How do you feel about her affairs?

You are probably right. Maybe she feels robbed of her youth and this is what she is attempting to recapture when she goes with these other men and in effect, behaves like a single woman. I am sure the 4th pregnancy didn't help in this respect - just as she was getting to the point where some independence seemed feasible, she found herself pregnant again. That said, you do the bulk of the childcare so I am not convinced that this is the problem. Yes, she has 4 kids but she is pursuing the career she wants to pursue and you seem pretty supportive in this. I therefore have to ask - how much attention do you pay to her? You have indicated that sometimes you don't want sex but are there other instances where you do not pay her the attention that she perhaps craves? Could it be that she is looking elsewhere because she isn't getting that attention at home? The other question to ask is did you stop wanting sex from time to time before she had the first affair or after and, if not, what do you think was behind this?

In terms of how you dealt with your wife's first affair, maybe you didn't handle it well. But how you handled it at that time could be consigned to the category 'coulda, woulda, shoulda'. It is the past and what was and wasn't done is done. What matters now is how the two of you handle things from now on. Clearly affairs are not the way forward for either of you and you both need to be open about the reasons why you had your affairs in the first place. Only then can you begin to rebuild your relationship. I would suggest, since you have difficulty opening up, that you do this via counselling sessions.

Thanks for your candour Jack.


Helen

[jack]

hi again

I don't know if i've misled you of you've misread my post but it was the OW who had the fourth child. my wife & I have 3 children - 18, 8 & 7.
the comment about her lost youth really applied to the first affair only - which was the only serious one - it lasted for a year & interestingly was with a guy who was really open & emotional. I'm not trying to let her off the hook on this - I have discussed it recently (a bit late) but I know these things happen & I know things were tough for her then. We weren't married - she had got pregnant virtually as soon as we started going out with each other so you could argue we had not totally committed to each other. The recent thing she had happened after my much more serious affair and as I was still lying to her about that at the time I really feel a bit disempowered in terms of finding fault with her on that. I did however pick up on it pretty fast & confronted them as soon as I had enough evidence - I had learnt by my own deception that confrontation based on suspicion gives the opportunity for deception.
I agree with you about conselling - staying in a remote area I do not have a lot of options & as I have said am waiting for an appointment which may take 3-4 months.
You query my wife's doubting my love for her - i don't think she has ever done this before - but I can see her point when she says "how can you love me - You had an affair for two years - had sex in my bed & lied about it for another two years" It is a fair point. I am trying to see things from her point of view. I do know she has not been blameless but she has been consistently forgiving & loving to me over the years & is still now for all her hurt & anger prepared to offer me support & comfort when the guilt & pain get too much for me.

[Helen]

hi again

I don't know if i've misled you of you've misread my post but it was the OW who had the fourth child. my wife & I have 3 children - 18, 8 & 7.
the comment about her lost youth really applied to the first affair only - which was the only serious one - it lasted for a year & interestingly was with a guy who was really open & emotional. I'm not trying to let her off the hook on this - I have discussed it recently (a bit late) but I know these things happen & I know things were tough for her then. We weren't married - she had got pregnant virtually as soon as we started going out with each other so you could argue we had not totally committed to each other. The recent thing she had happened after my much more serious affair and as I was still lying to her about that at the time I really feel a bit disempowered in terms of finding fault with her on that. I did however pick up on it pretty fast & confronted them as soon as I had enough evidence - I had learnt by my own deception that confrontation based on suspicion gives the opportunity for deception.
I agree with you about conselling - staying in a remote area I do not have a lot of options & as I have said am waiting for an appointment which may take 3-4 months.
You query my wife's doubting my love for her - i don't think she has ever done this before - but I can see her point when she says "how can you love me - You had an affair for two years - had sex in my bed & lied about it for another two years" It is a fair point. I am trying to see things from her point of view. I do know she has not been blameless but she has been consistently forgiving & loving to me over the years & is still now for all her hurt & anger prepared to offer me support & comfort when the guilt & pain get too much for me.Hi Jack,

You didn't misprepresent anything. I misread your post - sorry.

Is there a part of you that wonders if your wife would have settled with you if she hadn't become pregnant? Does she have questions in her mind in this area? I asked because I became pregnant 10 months after getting together with the man who became my husband. Such questions did go through my mind and I know they went through his too. In my case, we ended up divorced for reasons that I will not go into here (it would take too long) but my own story is on the board too.

From where I am sitting, her question about your love for her could be turned on its head. Okay, the first affair doesn't count but what about her other dalliances? Maybe they didn't last as long as yours did but that doesn't make them any less significant. She didn't know about your affair so acted separately and for no reason so you should not allow the fact that you were cheating to remove your ability to take her to task over this in the same way as she is doing to you. I do take on board her point about having sex in her bed. That said, would she have told you the truth about her latest affair if you hadn't looked for the evidence? I suspect her upset is about the longevity, as well as the fact that you slept with the other woman in her bed. And also, perhaps, the fact that you wre able to deceive her for so long. I accept she is hurt but I think you are hurt too (you said you were not feeling good about yourself. Why was that?) and maybe this is why you did what you did? Maybe this is something that will emerge once you begin your counselling.

Your wife has never questioned your love for her before and has forgiven you for lots of things over the years. I guess another question is what sorts of things has she forgiven you for? Don't feel obliged to answer. I am only asking because I am curious.


Helen

[jack]

hi helen

thanks again for your reply - i have read your post so know your story - in fact reading it was one of the things which persuaded me to go on this site - i was impressed by the way you handled your situation & also by much of the discussion. Incidentally I hope you have now found some peace & contentment - ironically, given my position, I think you did the right thing> I just hope I am dealing with this better than your ex did.

Yes of course we have both talked about the possibility that we might not have been togther had she not got pregnant - who knows? but life is not like that. The son we conceived is now 19 at University studying english literature & history - he is a fine young man - plays guitar excellently & I know for sure that neither of us would turn the clock back on that. One thing we are both agreed on is that we have 3 fantastic children & one of the reasons they are so fantastic is because of the two of us. This of course again makes it difficult for my wife to end the marriage!

You are right I think I could question my wife's love for me in the affair she had 15 years ago but I didn't when I should have & she has shown me so many times since that she does love me that I don't really think I can do that now- Interestingly the more recent "dalliance" as you call it has hurt me more - although it amounts to not much more than a few kisses & a bit of groping around. I think this is to do with me getting more in touch with my feelings (god - how i hate all this psycho babble)

At this stage I need to tell you about other things my wife has forgiven me for - i don't find this easy but I suppose its no worse than what I have already confessed to! Part of my rejection of my wife over the years would involve me staying up deliberately after she had gone to bed & masturbating i.e. effectively choosing that in preference to sex with her - she has caught me on a few occasions & needless to say this has had an effect on her self esteem. She is outwardly a very confident & capable woman - very successful at her job. but inside is wracked with self doubt & I have been the one she has confided in - her soul mate except I rejected her & was unable to offer her the empathy & emotional support she needed.

Any way the recent dalliance was with a guy who said lots of really nice things to her, pursued her relentlessly, & generally made her feel special - something I have failed to do consistently over the years. & sadly I can see the difference he made - she is more confident & it hurts that someone else has given her this.

I am now surer than ever of my love for her & am doing stuff like this that I would never have dreamed of doing & to some extent am opening up emotionally in ways I never have before - but I am aware that there is a big part of me that is not comfortable with this process & would rather just smooth things over & carry on as if nothing had happened.

Thanks again for your time & concern


Jack

[jack]

just a short update to say that my wife and i have talked things over further at enormous length - I have had to bear her pain anger and resentment for what I have done - i know i have to do this and although it is painful I am happy to do it - it is the least I deserve. We have also experienced some of the most intense and passionate love making ever - & both of us feel we are "connected" more than we ever were before.

The problem is this closeness alternates with periods where she tells me she hates me & does not think she can carry on - my question is - what can I do to win her trust back & help her forgive me? - I am under no illusions that there is a quick fix - just some advice from anyone who has any similar experiences would be appreciated

cheers

Jack

[Helen]

just a short update to say that my wife and i have talked things over further at enormous length - I have had to bear her pain anger and resentment for what I have done - i know i have to do this and although it is painful I am happy to do it - it is the least I deserve. We have also experienced some of the most intense and passionate love making ever - & both of us feel we are "connected" more than we ever were before.

The problem is this closeness alternates with periods where she tells me she hates me & does not think she can carry on - my question is - what can I do to win her trust back & help her forgive me? - I am under no illusions that there is a quick fix - just some advice from anyone who has any similar experiences would be appreciated

cheers

JackJack,

This is difficult. Not least because you seem determined to forgive your wife every trespass yet she isn't willing to do the same for you. I also find myself wondering why she is so angry. Yes, you cheated and lied but so did she, several times. I do find myself wondering how much of her anger is due to the masturbation? Does she understand the workings of man?

I have to say she seems to employ one standard of behaviour for herself and another for you. Not only is it hypocritical, it is confusing - for you, at least. Perhaps you can both agree boundaries for the relationship to move forward that you both have to adhere to? It doesn't sound like time to throw in the towel but you need to get to the bottom of your wife's rage.


Helen

[greeneyes]

I a wondering if all this has happened because you both craved attention/confidence you were not getting in your marriage - by having affairs it seems to have made you both feel wanted and in control.
I think the root of her problem is possibly that your affair lasted two years and you lied for another two years.
Both of you seem to be having some weird tit for tat affect on each other probably without even realising.
Do you feel this is a control issue over your wife ( you mention she is sucessful in her job, and the other W was very obedient)
I think sometimes is can be slightly worse when the partner KNOWS the OW and visa versa because then you start to look for pointers of when it started and how, in an unrealistic way
Do you really hand on heart love your wife, or is this more the situation of a comfortable pair of old slippers, which you dont want to chuck away?
Many of us loose our "freedom" when we have children, but I wouldnt say its a very good excuse to use in the breakdown of a relationship as it does take two to tango where baby comes in!
Helen seems to have a lot of good advice - i wish you luck even though yes I do thing you are a rotter (but what is worse is the lying) , and odds are you will both do it again unless you are able to seriously address your problems.
sorry to sound like this, hackles go up for quite a few of us women as we tend to empathise with what has happened to us (esp cheating partners) and in your own bed.....well bed destroyed or not you are as mad as a box of frogs!

[jack]

thanks helen & greeneyes for your replies.
Helen, I think the reason i do not see the "trespasses" of my wife & me as being the same is that I think in a very real sense I have not been "there" for her throughout the marriage. She has been through some really tough times & I acknowledge that I have not been able to offer her the emotional support she needed.
The problem with the masturbation is not that she doesn't understand men or is in any way prudish - quite the reverse - but that I used to actively choose masturbation over sex with her - She has only had one "proper" affair which was 15 years ago & however I dealt with it is not an excuse for my behaviour. You say she has one set of standards for herself & another for me - but she owned up & opened up when confronted whereas I continued to lie for 2 years despite her constant questioning of me. I accept the fact that I am the major offender throughout this relationship - neither of us are naive enough however to think that I am the only one who has done any wrong - and I think we are committed to trying to work it out. Neither of us wants a relationship where we spend our lives going through each other's pockets/handbags etc. - I basically trust her - my question to you as women is: if you were in her shoes what could i do to regain your trust?
Greeneyes, I think a lot of what you say is true - i think for many years I was in danger of falling into the "old slippers" trap. We are now both sure that we are much more than that. I don't think it is a control issue over my wife as I am not that sort of guy -but I do think I got into a rut - stagnated when I wasn't working full time through my choice and I am sure this contributed to the situation. In other words the affair happened, partly, because I had lost a lot of power & control in my relationship this manifested itself in me excerting power over the OW but I do not believe I want to replicate that with my wife - I do however want a more equal (in all ways) relationship.