Will This End In Divorce? [Archive] - 2-in-2-1 Discussion Forums

Desperate

3rd April 2006, 06:41 PM

It's been just over 2 months now since I found out that my wife has been having an affair with someone she works with. She says this has been going on since about May, 2005. I was completely stunned when I found out. She didn't tell me, I asked the question and I don't even know how it came out of my mouth. I guess my subconcious had picked up all the signs and suddenly I blurted out "are you having an affair". From there on, my life has been an emotional hell.

This was all so sudden. She told me she needed time to see where she wanted to go in life, she made constant references to reaching a crossroads in her life and that we had drifted apart. She moved out within a week and warned me that I must be prepared that she may not come back. I was DEVASTATED!

She claims to have been unhappy in our marriage for some time. She felt that I was no longer a true companion to her and that I didn't spend enough time with her, that we didn't real do much at all. She says we lived in the same house and that's about it. I would agree that our marriage had seen better days. But we did have good times too. I just can't see how the things that were missing from, or were wrong with our marriage could result in such a drastic action on her part. Why didn't she talk to me about how unhappy she was?? I was also not that happy with things but I didn't stop loving her and certainly didn't want to lose my wife!!!

I have always loved my wife dearly, actually more and more each year. We've been together for 14 years and married for 9 but unfortunately never got to having children...and we did try in the latter years.

The guy she's having an affair with has 3 kids and is separated himself!!!! She tells me that she loves him, is in love with him. She says she doesn't love me the same way. He apparently ticks all her frickin boxes and he ticks all hers!!!

She promised me that she was moving out to have time to herself. I almost begged her not to go. I knew the temptation to continue the affair would be strong...after all, she works with this guy. She did just that, continued the affair. She lied.

Every single thing my wife has said and done makes me believe she is 100% in love with this guy and wants a divorce. Yet when we discuss things, she keeps saying she's confused and needs time. In the interim, my entire world has crashed about me. I am absolutely messed up, can't think straight, can't eat, sleep, work, am constantly depressed. And I am hanging on to a thread of hope whilst she takes time to casually make up her mind. Each day that goes by, my soul dies a little more. To say I'm heartbroken would be an understatment. It's almost as if she's enjoying seeing me suffer. What has happened to this woman??

The last time we met (about 2 weeks ago), she said she was still confused but again was as cold as ice. "Don't blame me if you lose your job", "Get a grip", "You're harrassing me" are the sort of things she said to me. This blew me away...these are not the kind of words my wife uses. She has always been a compasionate person, very caring. But no longer.

It's almost as if this is an "exit affair" scenario, where she decided she wanted out of the marriage a long time ago and was just waiting for the opportunity. However, she initially said this was all a mistake, that she never set out to have an affair. But she has persued and nurtured this affair since moving out?

We've tried marriage counseling but it seems to have achieved little.

I just don't know what to do. My wife is my world and the thought of losing her is too much to bare. She is usually and intelligent, rational person but nothing I say or do seems to get her to consider what she is doing. When I tell her of how devastated I am, she almost fobs me off as if I've just had a dose of flue!!

At our last meeting, she again said she needs time but she had no idea how long and made it clear she couldn't guarantee she'd tell me what I want to hear. So here I am again, heading towards 3 months of pure misery and hell, praying my wife will give our marriage a second chance. I gave 14 years of my life to her, I committed to the marriage vows ... for what??? To end up like this?

Every night, images of my wife in bed with another man consume my mind. The details are graphic and I am almost sick with pain. I don't know what to do anymore, where to turn. I've tried 1-on-1 counseling, anti-depresants, samaritans...and it's just getting worse, like being sucked into a big black hole.

Can anyone give me some advise on how I can deal with these incredible feelings of pain, hurt, rage and anger? How I can survive the coming weeks or months, whether separated or other. I really am out of answers.

Annie

3rd April 2006, 07:02 PM

I am so glad you found this site. I am not really able to help you but I know plenty of others on here will do their best for you, it has helped me tremendously and I am glad you have registered. Sometimes just knowing some one else knows exactly how you feel can help.
Ann

Desperate

3rd April 2006, 09:40 PM

Thanks you Annie.................I'm really desperate, this pain is eating me up by the minute, I can't shake it, no matter what, or how hard I try.

Kimberley

4th April 2006, 10:48 AM

Hi

Im sorry to hear of your pain and suffering I have gone through similar myself but wont bore with all the details and my thread is called Betrayal. It hurts like hell when the person you most love in the world no longer loves you and worst of all shares themselves with another. I too go up and down and it is very difficult to eat, sleep and generally function.

Her cool lack of compassion seems to be her way of dealing with it and perhaps has stopped her caring side as not to give you false hope. It also sounds like the affair was more than she is making out - my H went off with his boss' wife and continues to work there so I know what you are saying with regards to the pictures in your mind.

In addition to Counselling I would also make an appointment with a Solicitor for advice even just for half hour as you need protecting and advising.

Try to be strong there are dark days ahead but be prepared for up and down days Im still having them too some times you get by and others you just break down. I find work and my children have kept me sane and plodded on also talking to my friends and family which initially I did not want to do but now feel better for it. Also the forum helps when you just need to get something off your chest.

We are here to support each other

Take Care.

Kimberley

Desperate

4th April 2006, 11:35 AM

Thanks Kimberley. All I ever hear from people is things will get better but in my case, they seem to be getting worse. I'm awake at 4am every morning and have been for over 2 months. End up drained the entire day, can't focus...can't get to sleep till after midnight, have incredibly intense emotional dreams, wake up with a cold sweat and pain in my gut.

I think your point about my wife's lack of compassion indicating she doesn't want to give me false hope may be very true. All I want to know from her is this, "is there any hope at all?" Or am I already dead in the water? It's not knowing....all the indications are that she has no interest in coming back. But you hear of some incredible turn arounds with marriages and I'm clutching on to anything. I know I shouldn't but I can't help it. I love my wife far too much to just role over and accept defeat. I just wish she could tell me one way or the other what she has decided, the waiting is killing me.

Kimberley, how long does it take a woman to make up her mind in this type of situation? Last time we spoke she said she didn't know how long it would take and I must be prepared she may want out. Surely you don't need over 2 months to figure out if you still love your husband?

What do you think might be going through her head? Do you think she may have doubts? Or do you think she's deliberately trying to make me suffer? Or is she trying to secure her partnership with her new man before she dumps me? I'm not being chauvenistic when I say this but I simply cannot understand how women thing...my wifes thought process has got me completely gob smacked and confused.

Do you think she might be feeling any guilt or remorse over what she has done? Any sorrow or pain? I keep getting then impression she has developed her own justification for what she has done so she can sleep better at night. It's like "Well I was unhappy in my marriage so what I've done and am doing is okay"...God this is hard.

Thanks Kim...Sean

Annie

4th April 2006, 12:21 PM

I spent nearly twelve months to-ing and fro-ing with my ex, he kept saying he loved me and we would be together but because I insisted we had a fresh start in a new house and would not return to "his" house he was constantly changing his mind and letting both my children and me down. The number of estate agents we went through as he put the house up for sale then took it down again was unbelievable!
I finally had enough after Christmas, my children were once again upset and disappointed in him. He had sworn on Christmas Eve he would not change his mind again and then Jan 2nd he said he had. I was devastated but decided enough was enough. It has neen very hard but now 13 weeks on I feel much happier. I deserve better than that!!!
Please hang in there. I have also lost my job over all this but I refuse to let him destroy any more of my life. I have my fantastic kids, fantastic friends and family and my self respect and dignity. Life will get better. Ann

greeneyes

4th April 2006, 01:14 PM

First of all please do not let this destroy you - while it sounds easier said than done - you must get through this....oh these things drive you crazy, they eat at you all the time. Time heals..please believe me, thank God but it really does. You are grieving and this is the worse part of splitting up, you are grieving for someone who isnt dead..they are still there but not part of your life anymore.
How long will it take for your wife to make up her mind ? - I think she is "keeping her options open" here, and stringing you along for 2 reasons 1) in case it doesnt work out with the new bloke 2) she hasnt got the guts to tell you straight.
Men and women who leave for another partner, appear to go on some kind of auto pilot and shut themselves off from any emotion, leaving the person they were married to confused and bewildered, as they are no longer the person they knew and lived with.
It is a kind of self justification.
You must now push her on one side and reactivate your own life by going out and meeting new people, get a hobby, or find old friends..get away for a long weekend, do things you always wanted to.
By doing this you will heal quicker, and probably leave your wife gob smacked as she is possibly enjoying the thought that 2 men love her and one of them is pining for her..so show her you are not..who knows what the ramifications will be

Desperate

4th April 2006, 01:33 PM

Thank you both for your replies. What you have said make sense but applying this logic and following through on advice is easier said than done, as I'm sure you know.

I am trying what I can though to get through this. I registered with an online dating agency, purely to make friends. I have made that clear...on Saturday, I met with a lady friend for the 3rd time...we had a few drinks, I decided to use a cab, so had too many....and then broke down completely. She hasn't contacted me since.

Seems no matter what I try to help myself, it fails. Even Relate & Samaritans said there wasn't much more they could do. Can you believe this, they even suggested I book myself into a Psychiatric unit?? Great help they were!

I've started doing a lot of gym and that helps...it's the only thing that has so far, even if the pain deminished only for an hour or so. But it's a start I guess.

Kimberley

4th April 2006, 01:45 PM

Hi there

I would be careful in the dating making new friends game I met my husband two weeks after I split with my ex as we had drifted apart within six weeks he had moved in and within eight months married and now he has decided a year after marriage that its a mistake and we have nothing in common!

I too think she is stringing you along, my own husband lack of compassion is devestating the man I loved and adored has long gone and left with this cold hollow person who looks slightly like him. Perhaps as previous replies state they detach themselves to deal with it but it makes them wicked horrible people.

Try and just stop beating yourself up about every thing - take each day at a time - some days are good some are just awful. Im the same about the sleeping and the next day just end up like a zombie.

Its a lonely dark place but hopefully it will be shorter term than you think but I do think her signals to you are that it is over and you may have to deal with that if the time comes.

Hope it all works out for you.

Kimberley

vtec180

4th April 2006, 02:38 PM

I really don't get it, She is the one who left and although you love her, don't let her control you're life!!! If you love something set it free and if it returns to you it's your's to keep forever. Don't know where I heard or read that but it seems applicable, maybe I should follow my own advice and set my wife free. AHHHHHH Maybe I have no value to add but I do know this that as long as you keep on showing you're pain and letting things get to you, you look like a spineless wimp to you're wife while she has a MAN in whose arms she can feel comforted. She is stringing you along and wanting to establish her current relationship first but desperate move on let her know you love her but move on. I know it's not easy it won't be for me when the divorce starts but i will do it. I will firstly try to save my marriage but if I cannot, It will not change my feelings for my wife. You should feel proud that you shared so many years together and that you had a impact on sum 1's life.

Kate

4th April 2006, 03:15 PM

Dear Desperate,

I think we all have different ways of coping with emotional pain. If the gym helps then use it. Reading your posts I get the impression of you going round and round in circles looking for answers and relief. In one sense there may be no clear cut answers available and that takes some coming to terms with.

You say that Relate and Samaritans can offer no further help. Have you been to see your doctor? Some people in your sort of situation find themselves depressed and in need of help with that. Anti-depressants may be able to help you to feel calmer and take each day as it comes.

Like so many others in your situation, your wife has not been able to articulate her unhappiness with you or find a way to deal with it. Instead she has been drawn to someone who apparently makes her feel special. Unfortunately for her there is no guarantee that further down the road she won't go through the same disillusionment in the new relationship adn regret what she has done. She may well be genuinely unsure about what she should do.

Have you had a look at the articles about dealing with infidelity here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/infidelity)? They give some insight into what you may both be going through.

Reinhold Niebuhr once said "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"

I hope that you will gradually be able to see life in this way.

Kate

Desperate

4th April 2006, 04:23 PM

Thanks Kate. I had previously had a look at all the articles and tips on this Site, they were very useful. I have also have a few books that have helped me understand infidelity and other reasons behind marriage breakdowns.

Believe it or not, I do have a pair and am trying to "get a grip" as my lovely wife puts it. Give me physical pain any day, no worries. Emotional pain and I'm a whimp, simple as that.

Yes, I did try my doc right at the start. He prescribed some anti-depressants (fluoxitine or something like that??)...took them for 6 days (one a day) with no change, so started taking more to get some relief. This had a very bad effect on me, it actually did the reverse of what was intended...or maybe they were just not suitable.

Whatever happens, I will never forgive this woman for what she has put me through and how she has detsroyedthe principles I held so dear... beliefs in marriage, trust etc. Vows are nothing more than empty words these days.

Broken Wings

5th April 2006, 10:52 AM

I feel for you. I know this may sound drastic but if you feel that she has no interest in continuing in the marriage, why not grab the bull by the horns and tell her you're not interested, turn the tables, take control. You have nothing to lose. If she has made up her mind, she'll agree, and you will lose what was already lost.

If she still has feelings, that may jolt her into a re-think. If she believes you are sincere, she might suddely realise all could be lost. It;'s just a thought BUT I wouldn't raise your hopes that she will reconsider. From what I have read, I honestly feel that she has made her decision and it's the not knowing that is making your situation worse. She's had more than sufficient time to know what she wants as far as I would see it.

Desperate

5th April 2006, 10:48 PM

Last night and today have been exceptionally traumatic. This pain, anxiety, dispair, anger and rage has gone way out of control. I threw all my toys out the cot this afternoon, completely lost it and broke down. Coffee cups, mirrors, chairs and tables smashed. I have now booked an appointment with a Pysco Shrink before it's too late and I end up doing something really stupid. Marital distress is extremely traumatic but somethings not right here, surely this is not normal? To feel like someone has stuck a pit fork in your gut and then twists it every 5 seconds or so? To wake up at 3 or 4am in a cold sweat feeling like you've just arrived at Hells door step? No wonder some people just throw in the towel.

vtec180

6th April 2006, 10:31 AM

Desperate thank you for your reply.Got to work today and this was in my email. Hope it helps but reaaly think about it!

A carrot, an egg and a coffee bean
A young woman went to her mother and told her about her life and how
things were so hard for her. She did not know how she was going to make
it and wanted to give up. She was tired of fighting and struggling. It seemed as one problem was solved, a new one arose.

Her mother took her to the kitchen. She filled three pots with water and
placed each on a high fire. Soon the pots came to boil. In the first she
placed carrots, in the second she placed eggs, and in the last she
placed ground coffee beans. She let them sit and boil, without saying a
word.

In about twenty minutes she turned off the burners. She fished the carrots out and placed them in a bowl. She pulled the eggs out and placed them in a bowl. Then she ladled the coffee out and placed it in a bowl.

Turning to her daughter, she asked, "Tell me what you see." "Carrots, eggs and coffee," the daughter replied.

Her mother brought her closer and asked her to feel the carrots. She did
and noted that they were soft. The mother then asked the daughter to take an egg and break it. After pulling off the shell, she observed the hard boiled egg. Finally, the mother asked the daughter to sip the coffee. The daughter
smiled as she tasted its rich aroma. The daughter then asked, "What does
it mean, mother?"

Her mother explained that each of these objects had faced the same adversity... boiling water. But each reacted differently.

The carrot went in strong, hard and unrelenting. However, after being
subjected to the boiling water, it softened and became weak.

The egg had been fragile. Its thin outer shell had protected its liquid
interior, but after sitting through the boiling water, its inside became
hardened.

The ground coffee beans were unique, however. After they were in the
boiling water, they had changed that water.

Which are you?" the woman asked her daughter. "When adversity knocks on your door, how do you respond? Are you a carrot, an egg or a coffee bean?"

Think of this: Which am I?

Am I the carrot that seems strong, but with pain and adversity do I wilt
and become soft and lose my strength?

Am I the egg that starts with a malleable heart, but changes with the
heat? Did I have a fluid spirit, but after a death, a breakup, a financial hardship or some other trial, have I become hardened and stiff? Does my shell look the same, but on the inside am I bitter and tough with a stiff spirit and hardened heart?

Or am I like the coffee bean? The bean actually changes the hot water,
the very circumstance that brings the pain. When the water gets hot, the bean releases the fragrance and flavor. If you are like the bean and things are at their worst, you get better and change the situation around you.

When the hour is the darkest and trials are at their greatest, do you
elevate yourself to another level? How do you handle adversity? Are you a carrot, an egg or a coffee bean?

May you have enough happiness to make you sweet, enough trials to make
you strong, enough sorrow to keep you human and enough hope to make you
happy.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes along their way. The brightest future will always be based on a forgotten past; you can't go forward in life until you let go of your past failures and heartaches.

When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling.
Live your life so at the end, you're the one who is smiling while everyone
around you is crying.

hoxton

6th April 2006, 01:47 PM

Desperate,

Trust me when I say you are not aloan,

I am sleeping better now still take nytol a few times a week and that just gives me 4-5 hours sleep but I used to wake at 3ish with all sorts of crap going around in my head It is a physical pain it feels like your dieing, Cant eat Cant sleep emotional wreck breaking down crying all the time the same questions going over and over in your mind why why why.

Most of us have been there and even though we cant make the pain go away it does help to know that others understand how you feel,

It is hard to beleive that someone who is soppose to love you can also shatter your whole world leave your confidence and self esteem on the floor and leave you a broken person,
Life is a b***h

Try and be strong take one day at a time,

Take care
Amanda.

Dane

6th April 2006, 03:45 PM

Desperate,

I am going though a very similar thing to you at the moment and have just past the one month stage. Everything I am feeling is exactly what you are going through, which in some respects assures me I am no different to any other man who loves his wife dearly and has been left with no answers and no closure. The only thing in my situation is that there is no-one else involved. My wife says she doesn't know what she wants but at the moment it's not me. We had been together 21 years and have a 12 year old son. He is staying with me as my wifes job means she can't.

I am hardening to things now and giving her the time she has asked for. I am taking more time for myself and going to the gym like you and generally smartening myself up and keeping the house running better than I ever did before. I hope this addresses some of our problems and makes me more like I was years ago before a happy family life caused me to get lazy and relaxed. I don't know what your wifes reasons are for seeking a bit of excitement but perhaps there are parallels with my situation.

My advice is just take hold of things and slowly build up your self esteem again. Perhaps it will help in your relationship but if not it will certainly help you get prepared for another. This is where I am just now. I sincerely hope that showing that I can turns things round in my life will help me but if not then I need to get back to where I used to be to find someone else.

The hope remains that things will get better but I'm certainly not going to let the despair take over and drag me down. Perhaps it's a bit of the "I'll show her what a mistake she's made" type situation. Whatever it is, I know it will do ME good in the long term whatever the outcome.

Take heart you are not alone and I agree with the comments above that you must take charge of the situation for YOU.

Best of luck.

zed_199

7th April 2006, 02:19 AM

Hey, don't let it get to you man, I'm going through something similar.

Make a long story short... My wife and I had a big fight.... I tossed my wife out to stay with her mom.... *SHIVER* had to fight with mother in-law too.... A while later I found a note... from him, to her... She has a plane ticket booked for this May for 3 Weeks.... Now she has all the justifacation in the world to go see this guy? (She's been pen pals with him for at least 3 months from what I've hear through mutal friends)

What Do I DO? I have apologized to her and asked that we see a councelor? I got turned down cold. She now has all the justifaction she needs.

So in the past two weeks, she has told me the same thing. "I need time to think things over." "I'm at a cross road in my life." - I asked the same questions as you? How long do you need to decide if you love him or me? All I want right now is answer so I can start dealing with this. Don't leave me hanging.

As for the sleepless nights, the over active imagination the uncertanty of the whole situation... its HARD.

So this is what I've done to pass the time, to get out of this rut, feeling guilty? What could I have done better? Where did I go wrong? Is it really all my fault...

So I picked up my hobbies again... I build computers and do repairs on the side. Play video games or go out for a walk. Better yet, if you can, buy a punching bag, or Join the gym... take Karate... its a great stress relief and it gets the mind back into shape too. You have to force yourself to do these things... Personally I like the Karate! Never was one for physical activity, but I like this one! I get home and I'm too tired to break something... besides I get beat up at karate!
I don't need to beat myself up anymore, Karate will do it for me! (At least its in a controlled and Positive enviorment.) Plus its great for the self esteem.

The biggest thing is to find something you want to do?
Keep your mind busy, and yes, your still going to think of her? Your imagination will still run wild... It just won't be as bad when you get home in the evening. You'll be too tired!

Like everyone has said, time will heal all wounds, its just up to you on how you want to spend that time? In a hole? Or would you rather someone toss you a shovel.

Take Care
Keep your Chin up...
zed

hoxton

7th April 2006, 08:52 AM

It is true,

I have joined the gym and not only am I feeling fitter I have lost nearly a stone.

It does not stop the pain but it gives you something else to focus on ad like you said zed it takes a lot of energy so helps you sleep, ( a bit )

Oh and shopping does wonders.........

Amanda.

Desperate

7th April 2006, 10:13 AM

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I went off to see the psycotherapist yesterday afternoon. She was quite good and was able to explain to me why my emotions were getting worse. She was also able to explain to me how women respond, how they think and what is probably going on with my wife.

It seems she too feels that my wife has already made he decision but she says women like to get out of these things in stages...so they string you along, sometimes without knowing it or without intention, sometimes to make sure they have truly feathered their new nests.

She also says that my sitiuation is getting worse because from day one, I have had NO CONTROL. I have allowed myself to have all the terms and conditions dictated to me, when I believe I am the victim.

She also reckons that I am hurt because I contributed significantly to the failure of our marriage by not listening to what my wife was "trying to tell me" and that I am trying to go back in time to see what I could have changed, or am trying to change the past now when it is too late. (for God sakes, why don't woman tell it as it is, we are not mind readers!!!! This communication issue has destroyed my marriage and my frickin life!)

A lot more came out that I identified with, so the session was helpful, although I am still hurting like bugger. I have scheduled again for Good Friday.

I am tempted to actually contact my wife and ask her if she has reached a decision or if she needs more time. If she says she need more time, just tell her that's it, enough, get on your bike! If she loves me and still and wants to try at our marriage, she will fight for it for a change ... but that's just not going to happen. At least I can walk away with my head high knowing I worked damn hard to save my marriage, even if it is with my heart in tatters.

By the way, I do keep myself active at the gym daily and try and find other things to take my mind off this...gym helps for an hour or two but nothing else has yet done te trick.

greeneyes

7th April 2006, 01:55 PM

She also reckons that I am hurt because I contributed significantly to the failure of our marriage by not listening to what my wife was "trying to tell me
I am sorry I dont swallow that - communication is an important part of a relationship and its not your fault if she didnt say anything to you, so how on earth could you have contributed? My husband tells people our marriage was failing for a long time, but its just an excuse he is using to justify his actions. While Counsellors are useful you dont need to believe everything they say, they are supposed to be something ou can bounce your emotions off, from my perspective you are hurt because of the betrayal and the fact you loved your wife dearly, so please dont beat yourself us about this.
Take control of your life now and get on with it and show your wife that you CAN and WIL live without her, and probably be happier for it - she wont like that at all. If your marriage does end you will find happiness again - I did through a dating agency and for me it worked - but I went in with my eyes open to make friends not look for a new partner
Good luck

Desperate

7th April 2006, 03:43 PM

Thanks Green Eyes. I was a little perplexed when thepsyco told me that....it's exactly what my wife told me...but when I chaleenged her and asked her to identify a single example of when she spoke to me about her unhappiness or considering leaving me, she couldn't. Because there were none. Yes, there were specific references to things that upset her, for example spending too much time either working or being on the internet, or whatever...but I never once considered these would end up with my wife having an affair and destroying our marriage. Hell, I would have juimped straight into her arms had I known - I love the woman!!! 14 yeasr, you do get a little complacent, perhaps even lazy and sometimes selfish...I think most couples who have been together for a while are guilty of this.

How are things now between you and your hubby? I've missed a lot of threads and posts so not up to speed with everyones situation just yet. Your hubby sounds like my wife, that's exactly the excuse she tells everyone to justify her infidelity. Make me the bad guy.

Thanks for your recommendation about taking control....you are right and I will do that in 2 weeks (I'm off to Tunis Monday on biz plus Easter w/end comming up so can hold till then......I think)

London

7th April 2006, 04:14 PM

Yes, there were specific references to things that upset her, for example spending too much time either working or being on the internet, or whatever...but I never once considered these would end up with my wife having an affair and destroying our marriage. ......

Your hubby sounds like my wife, that's exactly the excuse she tells everyone to justify her infidelity. Make me the bad guy.

So are you suggesting that you are blameless in the degradation of your marriage?

You said that your wife couldn't provide you with "a single example", but she had "specific references to things that upset her" - was that early on or more recently? Did you take any action to re-assure her or work with her?

You are right, we're not "mind" readers - and an upfront conversation was warranted - but did you in the past initiate any such conversation? Did you really not "feel" deep down at some point (even before the affair started) that there was something not right between the two of you?

greeneyes

7th April 2006, 04:17 PM

ENJOY ( and hold on until you are there!!)
husband left my 2004 out of the blue for another woman no warning - nothing... I didnt post my story because there were other things involved. The shock was so bad it was directly responsible for the death of 2 members of my family, I spent a long time being treated for post traumatic shock ( which is very much possible what you are going through) we were together for 10 years, however as soon as he left ...allergations were made that he had been sexually abusing a young female member of the family for 6 of those 10 years, so I realised then what human beings were capable of, and the shock was dreadful, the lies he came up with were unbelievable overnight he had gone from my beloved husband to a total monster..and it was so hard to accept..... his new woman still stands by him convinced we are all liars .......life goes on and you pick up the pieces you HAVE to and take one day at a time. The fact I adored him and really believed he adored me was all an act for 10 long years...while its different for you - it still boils down to one thing - betrayal, and your head fills with hundreds of "why's" but after a time you heal and you know you will never get the truth out of liars so why try to ask.

This has shown me one thing, you CAN go through a relationship totally UNAWARE of what may be going on, ok there may be the odd sign, but when you are happy you dont SEE these things because there is no need to!!!

The female member of the family...was my daughter

I have got through this, and there are many on this forum who have also gotten through terribly traumatic events...I firmly believe you can too, be proud of who you are, what you have done in your life remember -non of this is your fault YOU did not have an affair- ok you spent too much at work or on the internet ...thousands do, yet remain in marriage -one of the many story's my husband has woven to people is he left me because my work had taken over (but he was delighted with my salary which was more than his!!!) they are just excuses that both "they" and even "we" try to find, to justify what is happening
I was his third wife he did the dirty on all of us

have a great time and let us know how you get on!

London

7th April 2006, 04:48 PM

I firmly believe you can too, be proud of who you are, what you have done in your life remember -non of this is your fault YOU did not have an affair- ok you spent too much at work or on the internet ...thousands do, yet remain in marriage

greeneyes - that's quite a bit for anyone to get through. But you must admit that your situation is completely different than Desperate's! Was your daughter actually abused or was that one of the lies? I hope she is and you are both strong and doing well.

I still think that given what Desperate has described (and barring any major stories underneath) that *most* breakdowns in communication are a result of complacency or an unwillingness to acknowledge that there is something wrong. Its easier to bury it in the sand and pretend its not there.

greeneyes

7th April 2006, 05:05 PM

I acknowledge what you are saying
no it was my daughter who told me ...not him, he denied it of course as sadly he lives his life by lying - I have seen the clear evidence so I know it has happened.
what i am trying to point out, is..no matter what any of us go through it is just as painful to each of us and it is the betrayal that rips us apart.
Also while some people can see signs their marriage is going wrong, others are blissfully unaware, but i do agree there are some relationshipe where the partner prefers to bury their head in the sand - but sometimes they dont even realise they are doing that.
Obviously it would be wonderful if the other unhappy partner said " hey lets sit down and talk because things are going wrong"
And sometimes lack of communication is a tool that the unfaithful partner uses to justify their deed, they have decided to go because they are selfish and just cant be bothered to work on their marriage and see the grass being greener on the other side
each of us are very different.

Desperate

7th April 2006, 05:15 PM

Greeneyes, I really don't know what to say...I am terribly sorry for what you have had to endure, in particular the loss of your daughter. It makes me feel rather pathetic considering my sorrows and the magnitude of what you have had to deal with. I am glad to hear that you have made it through to some semblance of normality, although I know that you can never fully recover from such a life blow. The scars will always be there - treat them kindly and gently. I am sure you will find someone who deserves you and who will treat you with all the kindness and love you could wish for.

London, NO.... I'm not suggesting I'm blamelless?? I never have!

I actually went to the extreme and wrote my wife the most amazing emotional, heart rendering, soul searching letter any man could write to his wife, where I basically absolved her of all blame and gave her full and complete forgiveness. (took me 6 hours to write 5 pages!!!)

For the first 4 weeks after learning of her affair and her then moving out, I was kind, compassionate and understanding. I verbally communicated to her where I had gone wrong and told her that it was I that needed forgiveness, not her.

You know, she just lapped it up, never admitted her part in it...she was quite happy with her vindication, for me to take all the blame. She never once tried to make me feel better about things. She promised she would take time out during separation and would not see this other guy. She lied and admitted during the last counseling session that she was continuing her affair.

As for burying my head in the sand..........aaaarg forget it, you jumped on board this thread well after the ship set sail!

London

7th April 2006, 05:22 PM

And sometimes lack of communication is a tool that the unfaithful partner uses to justify their deed, they have decided to go because they are selfish and just cant be bothered to work on their marriage and see the grass being greener on the other side

each of us are very different.

I see what you are saying, but i don't think its always a case of selfishness - the working on the marriage is a TWO way street and being "blissfully ignorant" is not a defense of the alleged "victim" that has been wronged!

I do agree, we are all different, but there is a degree to which we can absolve ourselves of blame in a failed marriage. Granted, that degree varies considerably in case to case - but it is rarely zero....

London

7th April 2006, 05:29 PM

I actually went to the extreme and wrote my wife the most amazing emotional, heart rendering, soul searching letter any man could write to his wife, where I basically absolved her of all blame and gave her full and complete forgiveness. (took me 6 hours to write 5 pages!!!)

For the first 4 weeks after learning of her affair and her then moving out, I was kind, compassionate and understanding. I verbally communicated to her where I had gone wrong and told her that it was I that needed forgiveness, not her.

Again - you are responsible for your (re)actions. You are the one who thought you should martyr yourself in the relationship thus the need for "forgive me". The "letter" and "plea" are suggestive of a weak person who will allow anyone to walk all over him.

Amongst other reasons, your wife left you because of this weakness in you. You may not have "done" anything wrong, but your "character weakness" (if i can call it that) probably put her off. She walked all over you in the relationship and walked right out becuase there was no back bone.

As for burying my head in the sand..........aaaarg forget it, you jumped on board this thread well after the ship set sail!

I refrained from commenting early on for many reasons, but as you are keen on attempting to lob one at me.... as far as "jumping on board this thread well after the ship set sail" - well, not later than as did you in your marriage!!!

Good luck.

Desperate

7th April 2006, 05:39 PM

I married....."FOR BETTER OR WORSE"....TILL DEATH DO WE PART" ....& the rest......I wasn't blissfully ignorant. I too knew that our marriage had seen better days, I was also unhappy but this unhappiness wasn't just regarding our marriage.

The difference was that I didn't consider that our marital status was such that it would end up with my partner of 14 years leaving me for good. If I had the slightest idea she was that unhappy, I would have worked the situation. You need to understand that I was also dealing with my own life trauma....I had a major op 14 months prior where 18 inches of my colon were removed, then blow me down, in August last year, I suffered complete and permanent hearing in my right ear and found out I have 50% hearing in my left. (diving accident, Mexico)

So whilst I was stuck in Cancun hospital worried that I may end up completely deaf...no job, a useless man to my wife....there she was acting concerned but really thinking about the love she had left in Milton Keynes!!!

My point is that yes, I new that I marriage wasn't perfect. (but it wasn't that bad either, trust me....you just have to read threads on this Site to understand that!!) But I was also focused on some very serious personal concerns and perhaps didn't realise how things were slipping. There again, my wife new damn well what I have been through....little empathy on that one from her.

The problem with these forums is that, whilst people try to help, they can't be sure of their help unless they understand the full story and that would take too long and people would switch off.

So let's just say that I was responsible for my wifes unhappiness. I was NOT responsible for her having an affair and destroying the marriage. Or should I remind everyone AGAIN, of the marriage vows that we all stand in front of a priest and repeat. No wonder 50% of marriages fail these days.

London

7th April 2006, 06:15 PM

I married....."FOR BETTER OR WORSE"....TILL DEATH DO WE PART" ....& the rest......I wasn't blissfully ignorant. I too knew that our marriage had seen better days, I was also unhappy but this unhappiness wasn't just regarding our marriage.

YEs and in that is the assumption that the two of you would work at making it work. Too many people just assume that once you make those vows you are free of any work in the marriage - that if you do nothing and your partner is unhappy then it's "oh well, too bad, you made a vow now deal" - Guess what - the real world doesn't work that way.

You said yourself that *you* were unhappy (althoug you say it wasn't about the marriage - but that's a red herring of a comment) - being unhappy in one part of your life affects other parts of your life and relationships... and your wife was feeling its effects as well.

So let's just say that I was responsible for my wifes unhappiness. I was NOT responsible for her having an affair and destroying the marriage. Or should I remind everyone AGAIN, of the marriage vows that we all stand in front of a priest and repeat. No wonder 50% of marriages fail these days.

If you were responsible for your wife's unhappiness, then you drove her (mentally / emotionally) out of the marriage - she merely acted on the physical. You were at least 50% if not MORE responsible for her affair. The physical aspect can be dealt with easier than being pushed away emotionally.

You can quote all you want the vows you made in fron of a priest - but the priest is not responsible for the sabotage you (inadvertantly??) inflicted on your marriage nor is he responsible for people's desire to be happy - words or not!

Desperate

7th April 2006, 06:41 PM

London, you're seriously beginning to annoy me.

If you're looking to pass time by striking up an aguement, it's Friday...try going out and finding someone you can do so with face to face. You've appeared out of nowhere on this tread and basically accuse me of destroying my marriage?????> How dare you, who the hell do you think you are? You don't even know the half of my story... you say I use red herrings....what???...you have an extremely arrogant attitude!!. I didn't force my wife to live a double life for almost a year. I didn't force her to sleep with another man, to lie to me continuously from the time I found out about that affair, to deceive me and betray me. Nothing I did warranted this behaviour and you have no right trying to defend it.....are you off your rocker? Or have you been in my wifes shoes in a previous relationship?

Do me a favour, if all you can do is blame me for pretty much everything regarding my wife having an affair, for my marriage failing, then don't bother responding. I happen to be extremely upset about what has happened to my marriage and your malicious comments are unhelpful. I joined this forum to get some guidance, help and constructive criticism. All you have really done is gone out of your way to me obnoxious.

London

7th April 2006, 06:52 PM

You've appeared out of nowhere on this tread and basically accuse me of destroying my marriage?????> How dare you, who the hell do you think you are? You don't even know the half of my story... you say I use red herrings....what???...you have an extremely arrogant attitude!!. I didn't force my wife to live a double life for almost a year. I didn't force her to sleep with another man, to lie to me continuously from the time I found out about that affair, to deceive me and betray me. Nothing I did warranted this behaviour and you have no right trying to defend it.....are you off your rocker? Or have you been in my wifes shoes in a previous relationship?

Do me a favour, if all you can do is blame me for pretty much everything regarding my wife having an affair, for my marriage failing, then don't bother responding. I happen to be extremely upset about what has happened to my marriage and your malicious comments are unhelpful. I joined this forum to get some guidance, help and constructive criticism. All you have really done is gone out of your way to me obnoxious.

I am sorry that you do not see an alternative view point as constructive criticism. But you said yourself "So let's just say that I was responsible for my wifes unhappiness. I was NOT responsible for her having an affair and destroying the marriage." I did NOT suggest or say that you drove your wife to sleep with someone else - or did you ignore that part in my post. I expanded on your admission that YOU WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER UNHAPPINESS - to which i said, that made her withdraw from you and your marriage - thus making it easier for her to pursue a physical relationship. I stand by my words that YOU were at least 50% responsible for driving her away. You made the idea of her staying in the marriage UNATTRACTIVE to your wife.

Your subsequent letters and pleas to her made you even less attractive to her.

Broken Wings

7th April 2006, 07:20 PM

London

7th April 2006, 07:51 PM

Wow! From what I have read, I don't agree with all you have said London. Your wording is very strong and could be taken as antaganistic and arguementative, and I say that with due respect. It's not easy reading that type of tone when you're trying to deal with one of the most significant traumatic life changing events one can encounter.

Yes, but there is no point in pussyfooting around the issue - especially when there is an element of "its not my fault" on the part if the OP.

I'm also not sure about your 50% claim. Both parties in this case seem to have failed to communicate, it appears though that one was not aware of just how unhappy the other was.

Well, you did agree with me when you say BOTH parties were at fault - that's 50-50 or is my math wrong here? I didn't say Desperate was entirely responsible or that his wife was - I said he is ALSO responsible in this debacle and perhaps more becuase it was his doings that made her unhappy.

Having said that, I do agree that if the unhappiness was noted by "Despearte", he should have acted on it, irrespective of his health concerns. But how many of us are guilty of missing this, or even not acting on it when we see it. I guess it depends on just how unhappy each of them were, how arware they were of each others feelings and whether they felt this could end a marriage. No marriage is perfect, no Husband or Wife can claim to communicate or listen to their partner and respond accordingly all the time, even when they are aware that not all is right.

Well, that is what he said, "I was responsible for my wifes unhappiness" What more do you need? He throw out all kinds of reasons as to why he expected sympathy from her without acknowldeging that his actions were making her miserable. Nor did he offer any plausible reason as to why he didn't deal with his marital issues as he became aware of them!

You could be right about the letters, I guess that depends on her character and the contents of these letters. If they were of a pleading nature, then I would agree...this would not be attractive.

Broken - did you read what he said about the nature of the letters? He said: "I actually went to the extreme and wrote my wife the most amazing emotional, heart rendering, soul searching letter any man could write to his wife, where I basically absolved her of all blame and gave her full and complete forgiveness. (took me 6 hours to write 5 pages!!!)"

Now what do you make of that? I would think, judging by your words, then you would agree with what I said.

Not only that, but he became a pleading fool even more so over the next 4 weeks: "For the first 4 weeks after learning of her affair and her then moving out, I was kind, compassionate and understanding. I verbally communicated to her where I had gone wrong and told her that it was I that needed forgiveness, not her." Again, I think you and I agree on this point.

If Devastated was infact 100% responsible for his wife being unhappy, then I have to agree with you there too. But my own experiences and from all the research I have read up on, this is seldom the case - old story - 2 to tango and all. .

So we agree again....

I think most people on this forum are aware of this. I also highly doubt that married couples these days assume that because they've made vows, their spouses are their prisoners for life, happy in marriage or not. Your quote above is also a little condescending.

Yes they are aware of it - but only AFTER the fact. And if you read most of the posts here, all come in saying "but we vowed 'till death to us part" or "for better or for worse" - very few people acknowledge that their lack of 'hard' work or 'understanding their spouses needs' led to the demise of their marriage. It's always - but you promised ....

Broken, it seems that you and I agree on nearly all the points I raised - the only place we diverge is on the use of my "harsh" tone - I agree it is harsh - but only becuase I am sick and tired of people playing the "woe is me" game here - Desperate is not the only one guilty of it here. Many posters (not all of them - and by far the vast majority of men) come here explaining their issue and blame their spouse of their misery and affairs etc without accepting their role in it. They paint their spouses with such vile coloured paint while they assume the role of the innocent. I don't buy it!

Desperate

7th April 2006, 08:33 PM

A pleading fool?

You stink off arrogance London. When I said "So let's just say that I was responsible for my wifes unhappiness", this was an attempt at brevity...in other words, just assume the worst, London, that I was to blame for everything. (Not that I was) If you read the paragraph prior to this, perhaps you'll understand this. I was NOT eniterly to blame for my wifes unhappiness. I used that line because irrespective of whether I was 100% responsible, 70% or 50%...fact is she "chose" to have an affair and to sleep with another man, frequently. She chose to commit adultery. She chose to deceive her husband and to lie to him.

About the unhappiness - We both failed to discuss our feelings. Her feelings of unhappiness were obviously far deeper than mine. But how can I fix what I am unaware of??????? Let's put it another way...if I was so unhappy that the slightest thought of leaving my wife entered my mind, I most certainly would have discussed it with her before I got to a stage where it was too late. She never gave me that opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my 14 years, I never contemplated leaving my wife, never.

Yes, I fully understand that an unhappy spouse may be drawn toward an affair. But don't you think it would be smarter to try and raise the issues first with the husband, to COMMUNICATE your dissatisfaction with the marriage? Surely this is a better option than just working on an "Exit Affair"? And yes, I also understand that I should have communicated....I didn't realise that she was THAT unhappy..I assumed that we were going through what most, if not all marriages go through.

What you seem to be saying London is that I deserve what has happened to me. My case is not too disimilar to many...and the manner by which you try to absolve the adultering spouse of blame is unbelievable. If everyone were to be as rigid as you about their expectations of a marraige, I can't see there's much point in getting married! We're human. Man or woman. We sometimes miss things that are right in front of us. Sometimes we even see them and fail to respond. If this was continuous, everyday without exception and continued even after discussions, then in that case one could understand a life of hell forcing a spouse to move out, or have an affair. My marriage was not anywhere near that bad....nowhere close.

What you have attempted to do is blame me for 50% (and as you say, probably more) for our failed marriage. You don't even know me, or my wife or our full story. You come in guns blazing...you won't quit until you have completed your essay writing skills. For God sakes, I'm talking about my marriage here and someone I love more than life. I came here seeking some kind of advice, even criticism ... but not this assuming, arrogant, I know more than anyone else attitude.

AlwaysGreen

7th April 2006, 08:53 PM

There have been a few too many heated debates (arguements) in this forum recently, let this please not turn into another one.
Desperate, You are free to read and respond to any post, but it is not complusive. London has offered his opinion (Albeit a bit harsh) and my advice to you here would be, do not respond if it is upseting. Understanding the written word in the context with which it is meant can be difficult. There is no facial expression or gestures to back it up, and the lack of correct punctuation can also make us read things incorrectly.
I agree that I feel London read your comment about "Responsibility" wrongly. But it was a misunderstanding. I like to think.
Please don't stop feeling support from users of this forum. I Think the majority of us, London included, Hope that your life can be mended and that in time you can move forward. Please let us all take a deep breath, calm down and carry on trying to help and understand.

To London: I have alot of admiration for you. You don't ***** foot or tiptoe, But a little bit of tact doesn't go amiss. Can we possibly try to steer clear of a possible DingDang here.

Helen

7th April 2006, 09:02 PM

Desperate,

The logical and decent thing to do would be to voice dissatisfaction if you are unhappy. Certainly, I did. I knew my husband was unhappy too yet he could not bring himself to say what was on his mind. Instead, like your wife, he chose to go off and have an 'exit affair'. And it was an exit affair because he knew my views on infidelity (which were somewhat rigid in my younger days but relaxed as I grew older). By this, I mean I could have forgiven him if I hadn't known the woman and truly believed it was an act of a desperate man. My husband made sure it was an exit affair by having it with my brother's wife. There was no way back from that.

We can talk about decent and logical but when it comes to affairs, I doubt those words feature. A 20 year relationship and fidelity in the face of temptation (me) mean nothing in the face of a partner who cannot (will not) deal with issues and is determined to cheat - for whatever reason. Your wife may be saying she had the affair because she was unhappy but I think that is only part of the cause. After all, as you say, if she was unhappy, why didn't she talk to you and give you the opportunity to work with her to put things right? Unhappiness wasn't the whole story in my case and I doubt it was for your wife. And I agree - who was responsible for what doesn't matter. What matters is the actions that one individual chose to take.

I was unhappy for the longest time yet I didn't have an affair, even when I had fitness instructors at my local gym chasing me around the car park! I was sorely tempted, especially in the last couple of years of our marriage, when things were really going downhill. Unlike my ex, I did not look elsewhere to deal with any negative feelings I had. Instead, I spent years begging him to talk to me and to go for marriage counselling/go to the doctor. He refused to go and kicked shut every single door that I opened. Regardless of what he now says, I know he was determined to have an affair and that is what he did. And instead of having counselling, he confided in my brother's partner and told her many, many things about me, our relationship and our sex life (which ground to a halt because of things he did)...

Enough about me. Just my thoughts on affairs, from my point of view.

Helen

London

7th April 2006, 09:06 PM

A pleading fool?

Yes - that you are. You did write that OTT letter to your wife, you begged and pleaded to HER for forgiveness - event though as you say, she's the one that had the affair.

I was NOT eniterly to blame for my wifes unhappiness. I used that line because irrespective of whether I was 100% responsible, 70% or 50%...fact is she "chose" to have an affair and to sleep with another man, frequently. She chose to commit adultery. She chose to deceive her husband and to lie to him.

I never said you were 100% to blame did I? It seems that you are you just angry because I won't give in to your one-sided story? If you read my post you will see that I said "If you were responsible for your wife's unhappiness, then".... what does that say? It says I ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR STATEMENT. Please (re)-read what I said.

You keep saying you are not to blame? Then why beg for forgiveness? So which is it - you beg her to forgive you for something you squarely blame her for? How does that work? You made yourself unattractive to your wife by being such a weak boy.

About the unhappiness - We both failed to discuss our feelings. Her feelings of unhappiness were obviously far deeper than mine. But how can I fix what I am unaware of??????? Let's put it another way...if I was so unhappy that the slightest thought of leaving my wife entered my mind, I most certainly would have discussed it with her before I got to a stage where it was too late. She never gave me that opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, once again, *you* are half to blame. You stated earlier on that you went through all your physical issues but again that's a red herring - you had "lost" your wife prior to that. Why don't you start looking at the events that led her away from you. Why she began to see you as no longer an "attractive" spouse (and I'm not just talking physical appearance here).

What you seem to be saying London is that I deserve what has happened to me.

Deserve? NO (even though you are extremely hostile towards me here). Partly responsible - YES.

My case is not too disimilar to many...and the manner by which you try to absolve the adultering spouse of blame is unbelievable.

I am not absolving the adultering spouse at all. Where do you see me doing that? I am just saying that YOU ARE NOT WITHOUT FAULT in this mess. There is a difference.

If everyone were to be as rigid as you about their expectations of a marraige, I can't see there's much point in getting married!

Excuse me? Where am I "rigid" - if anything I am too flexible. What I am not rigid about is the words that were uttered in front of a priest where spouses like you who cling on to in order to hold spouses hostage or worse, to play "holier than thou".

We're human. Man or woman. We sometimes miss things that are right in front of us. Sometimes we even see them and fail to respond. If this was continuous, everyday without exception and continued even after discussions, then in that case one could understand a life of hell forcing a spouse to move out, or have an affair. My marriage was not anywhere near that bad....nowhere close.

Of course, but you are kidding yourself if you think your marriage was nowhere close to being "bad" - your wife obviously thought it was. Which brings me to my next point - were you really that ignorant to the fact that your wife wasn't happy? Things like this don't just appear out of thin air like you are implying. They build up.

What you have attempted to do is blame me for 50% (and as you say, probably more) for our failed marriage. You don't even know me, or my wife or our full story.

Well whose fault is that then? You cannot have it both ways - you cannot expect people to give you advice based on a partial story then chastise me for not knowing the "full story". I will give my opinion on whatever you have said. Funny how if you don't like what I have to say, it's becuase I don't know your full story, and if you do like what other posters say its "thanks for the kind words". You really like playing victim here. You say you want criticism but you don't really. All you want to hear is kind words in your favour and criticism of your wife. Well seeing that its YOU that are posting and not your wife, I will focus my criticisms on you.

Dave

7th April 2006, 10:02 PM

London

Cool it - others have asked you, so please moderate your tone

Dave

London

7th April 2006, 10:26 PM

London

Cool it - others have asked you, so please moderate your tone

Dave

Dave

No - "others" have not ask me to "cool it" - Its usually insecure males who start off a "woe is me" thread coming to this board searching for answers that they expect their mothers to give them. But its good to see that the only contribution the moderators have made to this thread is one asking me to cool it.

If you have an issue with me, please send me a PM or email. But please stop using people's threads to "discipline" posters (or is it just me?). Its not productive. Oh wait a minute, isn't that something you said a couple of days back about not hijacking threads?

Broken Wings

8th April 2006, 12:19 AM

London

8th April 2006, 12:40 AM

London, you are way out of line now. There is absolutely no need for the tone you are using. If you wish to make your point, try be a little tactful about it. I for one am getting tired of your rantings.

Zip it.

BW - does this have to continue on this thread now? Let's fight one battle/issue at a time. As far the original thread goes, we seem to share quite a bit of the same thoughts and differ in other aspects. Let the mods take care of the rest.

And, please, don't ever tell me to "zip it" again - you have as much right to that condescending remark as i do towards you! I have never said anything or been rude to you. Respect that.

zed_199

8th April 2006, 08:01 AM

Desperate - I think I have a good idea on what your going through? (don't know if my opionion counts for much, but I'll put in my two cents).

I think we are all Guilty of missing the little 'SIGNS' (that add up to a lot of things) that our partner is un-happy. Then again we are all guilty of Playing on the interenet, (i'm a PC TECH So I know all about this one) spending a bit more time at work. Going out shopping, getting out with a buddy instead of spending time with our spouse'. Watching "America's Next Top model" or whatever show is on.

Men & Women are different. There are some things that don't register on our Radar Screens...There are some things that don't register on womans radar.... (those little things that mean something to the other person, and if not looked after, it adds up over time. Creating havoc and Caos).

How many of us have actually looked into this stuff? I know I sure didn't? I don't have an excuse... I really don't know what to say?

Except... If love is really there... the telephone works both ways... either party could have called... We shouldn't blame the other person if they didn't call and say "Hey, I have a problem, Can we talk." We are both GUILTY of not picking up that phone and voicing our concerns and worries. (maybe we did, and it just we just didn't hear the other person that "HEY We have a problem, maybe we should talk").

I think we are all guilty of this in some fasion or another.

There are no quick fix solutions, or answers. Believe it or not, we did depend on our spouse for Whatever reasons. Friendship, Confidant, companionship. SO yeah, Its hard to let that go when you still have so much feeling left?

So Yes, I understand writing a letter, putting your heart on the table and say "Sweety I love you, lets talk and work things out."(showing weakness) As opposed to "You dirty wrotten **TCH, get out of my life forever." Because if we did that, we think they will for surely leave us now, because I'm the @sshole and she nows has justification to leave. OR just being in-differnt. Sorta being cold, and it doesn't bother you... when it really does! We are only human.

No matter what we do, we still feel that its all our fault that they Cheated or left us, because we showed weakness, or because we were the @sshole... or because it looked like we didn't care.
(I could be wrong, but thats sorta how I see it)

So what does this tell us?

Its time for us to TAKE OUR LIFE BACK. MEET SOME NEW PEOPLE.

Just keep in mind, you are not responsible for her actions, just your own. How you chose to get through this now, is very important. I know its hard and fustrating. Just gotta live day by day if we have to, Hour by hour. In the end we'll both come out alive.

If I could invite you out for a beer I would, just to give us something to do, watch the hockey game or something! I'm just as confused as you are... I wish I had answer for you, but I need one too!

Have GREAT WEEKEND.
zed

hoxton

8th April 2006, 08:56 AM

Desperate,
Everyones case is different, And as much as I agree that quite often signs are there.

I know in my case I saw the signs going back over a year ago and I spoke to my H I told him I was worried And that I felt things were not right, I tried more at home I started cooking nearly everyday and trust me cooking isnt my strength I also made an effort in the bedroom which after the baby things calmed down a bit. But still all I got from him is " I am happy honey we are ok," I knew there was proberlems, But where do you go when your spouse refuses to address the proberlem and tells you that they are happy and the reason you are feeling like this is because I have had a traumatic year ( lot's of personal problems )
and are just insecure...........
He messed with my head and He made me feel I was making something out of nothing,

I beleive he did that because he was not ready to give up what he was doing and what ever way he dresses it up HE knew I would be devestated and he knew how hard I was trying to make our marraige work, and he done nothing,You can not make it work on your own they have to meet you half way or there is no point. I have spent nearly a year beating myself up maybe I wasnt a good enough wife maybe I am to boring maybe I dont do enough in the bedroom. I know he would not of intentionaly knocked my confidence but my self esteem was on the floor and I am only just building my confidence again. But the questions of What am I doing wrong ect ect ect.

And now I feel that sometimes even if you see it coming it cant allways be stopped your spouse has got to want to.

What scares me most now is that even though we are together and things are good most of the time ( untill I lose it over the smallest thing ) He told me he was happy all the time was allways nice to me. So if he can do that to me when he is happy whats to say he isnt still continuing.

I just have to try and trust him.

After all of that what I am trying to say is I am not taking no blame for him He choose to do what he done.
And like you Desperate Your wife was happy for you to blame yourself because it made her feel better about what she was doing.

On a good note I am glad I have started going out more with my H because all he keeps going on about is how many men he has heard / seen looking and talking about me.

Amanda.

Desperate

8th April 2006, 10:05 AM

Firstly, I would like to apologise to those who has been involved in this posting. My intention was not to undermine contributions from any of you. All I hoped to do was to try and explain my situation without writing a book on it, learn what I could from your experiences, consider advice and suggestions given by you and try and find a way of dealing with my situation, perhaps even figuring out a way of coming to terms with everything.

All of our cases are different, there may be some similarities but the one constant is that we have all suffered emotional pain as a result of issues within our marriages. So thank you for sharing your stories with me, as well as your suggestions and advice. This has helped me....just knowing I'm not alone in what has happened as well as the emotions I'm going through has been very helpful.

I realise now that unless I provide more detail on my marrital issues, I cannot provide you with a clearer picture of what actually happened and why I feel the way I do about who's at fault, where, why, why did it happen, etc. That would take too long and would be selfish...you all have your thoughts you wish to share. So for now, I will cease from discussing my problem and will see what further I can learn from your postings.

Thanks again for all of your replies.

AlwaysGreen

8th April 2006, 12:02 PM

Desperate.
Please don't apologise for anything. You have not underminded any of us.
I agree, that for one to put down all the details of the problem, to paint a clearer picture, would be too long, for any of us. No doubt, the majority of people posting threads would still now be on the initial thread after weeks and weeks. Where would that get anyone. We put down the relevent key issues in the hope that the advice given on those points will help to sort out other factors too.
You do not need to provided us with points or issues in your relationship that are too personal or too painful to voice. We will listen and help you on the information you have given. I admit, the more we know, the more help we might be able to be. But I also agree that despite you coming onto an internet forum, that does not mean you want to share your indepth personal life with anyone.
You keep those points to yourself, share with us what ever you need to share. Get things off your chest. Try to sort things out in you head. We will give you what ever advice we can. Even if we are only here to listen.
I think also that what Zed just posted with regards to your situtaion and his, was possibly quite apt. It is nice for every one to know that they are not alone with their problems. There is very often someone nearby (and that fortunatley means through here too) going through a similar crisis.
Take care

Broken Wings

8th April 2006, 02:47 PM

Zed, good words there and I support what you have written. The most important issue is how to get through this, for Despearte and the rest of us in similar positions. Like you say, it's often one hour at a time. Sometimes it's even minutes.

greeneyes

8th April 2006, 05:19 PM

Helen

8th April 2006, 05:37 PM

No matter what anyone says I do not and never will believe that a breakdown of marriage is 50/50, there is no such black and white issue about breakdowns.
I went shopping today and watched people...well i was thinking if NO-ONE is "unhappy" they will all be walking around smiling...that didnt happen...I saw many men being dragged along to clothes shops looking like they were sucking lemons...so will that mean they will all have affaird because their wives make them unhappy?
I am just trying to give a hypothetical example. I dont think anyone is ever 100% happy in a marriage.
What has happened is society has changed..people in general are more selfish and materalistic, divorce is an easy option to copt out of responsibility, Marriage vow are a piece of paper, our moral views have changed.
Affairs are because we have more access to different people than we did before through ddifferent means, and we often see this as an escape into a romantic rosy world, away from the partner who has got boring/not as good looking as/has a lower income than (some of the many factors)
London, I have read quite a few of your posts and you do seem to come across pretty bitter at times?? what happened in your marriage/relationship? would you mind saying or directing me to the relevant posting so I can perhaps understand your attitude a bit more.Greeneyes,

I agree, there has been a societal shift, which makes divorce more accessible for the masses. Once upon a time, only rich people could afford to get a divorce and only then, once it had been debated in Parliament. Such was the impact of one person wanting to end their union with another. My mother's generation (and generations before her) saw the ups and downs of marriage as something to be endured with stoicism. Yet the questions started, in the more liberal 60s. Should us women put up with men who behave unreasonably, cheat, beat us, etc.? The answer, unsurprisingly was no. Still, the likes of my MIL stood by her cheating husband for more than 40 years, becoming ever more bitter as the years passed. In that circumstance, I would say divorce is a good thing. My MIL has only availed herself of it of late. But she will be 60 this year and has endured a marriage littered with infidelity on her husband's part.

I do agree, divorce is too easy these days - but then, so is marriage. Picture Britney marrying her childhood sweetheart. They were married for hours and then the marriage was annulled - and he got a payoff! She married her second husband after knowing him for 3 months. 3 months! Is it any wonder that the marriage is in trouble and divorce is in the air? I say divorce is easy but the moral fortitute of individuals in a marriage makes a difference too. I was brought up by parents who stayed married until my dad died - more than 37 years. This was despite physical beatings, alcoholism - the whole shebang. I guess that is where I got my own mindset from because I endured a LOT of crap from my ex. His affair with my SIL was the last straw. My ex, on the other hand, was brought up with a loyal and faithful mother, and a dad who was a player throughout his marriage. It is therefore unsurprising that my husband and his brother cheated on their wives - in my BIL's case twice - ...and are now, as a consequence, divorced.

As you state, blame is rarely 50-50. In my case, it was 90-10. My ex now admits it was his fault because he did lots of things that destroyed our relationship (some of which I cannot post here) before going off and having the affair. I admit, for my 10% - I should have looked for other, alternative approaches to get him to engage with me but a part of me says conversation, begging, asking for counselling/the doctor/etc left other options limited. The only other option would have been to say nothing and endure and I was not his mother...

Helen

London

8th April 2006, 06:29 PM

No matter what anyone says I do not and never will believe that a breakdown of marriage is 50/50, there is no such black and white issue about breakdowns.

You are right - there is no such thing as a black and white breakdown. No one can sit down and say THIS is what caused the breakdown and had I or she done not that it would have worked. All I am suggesting is that both parties are somehwat responsible for the breakdown. Here I am talking about a pure breakdown of a marriage - not one that is due to abuse (as you demonstrated in your example) but where people no longer seem to get on. The example by Desperate had no abuse or the like. Every case is different and that is why I find it so difficult and frustrating to read the one answer fits all that so many people like to repeat here and that posters keep saying "I did nothing wrong". Yes, you did do *something* wrong - no one is perfect.

London, I have read quite a few of your posts and you do seem to come across pretty bitter at times?? what happened in your marriage/relationship? would you mind saying or directing me to the relevant posting so I can perhaps understand your attitude a bit more.

Green Eyes, I am not bitter as much as I am frustrated here. If you are genuine in your question, then I will answer - I am in a quite a happy and fruitful relationship right now and have been for the last 8 or so years. When my first wife and I broke up it wasn't due to any abuse or unreasonable behaviour - we just drifted apart. And yes, perhaps we could have worked harder at making things work, perhaps we took each other for granted. But we woke up one day and realised that we loved each other like brother and sister and we were missing the "spark" that first got us together many years before. Obviously it wasn't "waking up one morning". Things were in a rut for a while. The tell-tale signs were beginning to show up even a little before that. Before long it accumulated and voila - Sunday morning we both felt something amiss.

We agreed that it would be best to split up and enjoy our lives not feeling "trapped". So we did. Clearly, we both contributed to the demise. MAybe it was me working too much and her partying? Or was it me partying and her working and studying or her Ph.D? You see there was a contribution by both of us to the demise. Just as there was a contribution to getting together. Were there "other" factors involved? Of course there were. But the bottom line is WE BOTH became complacent and took each other for granted. Today, its different somewhat for each of us. For months I did a lot of soul searching and self-examination as to where I thought *I* went wrong. I beat myself up over it. But that wasn't to save the marriage - it was almost done by then. But it made me a better person today. We both are involved with someone we met down the line and we have a healthy relationship with each other and our exes. Will I be in the same "rut" again? Maybe. But at least I am a little more aware that keeping a marriage working is working at it together and I am more aware of who I am.

I am frustrated by the many posters (not all) who use their vows as a "carte blanche" to hold others "hostage" in a marriage. I am frustrated by (and its especially the male posters) who come here and present half a story where they portray themselves as angels (with all their woes) and their spouses as "bit**es running around behind their backs having affairs. I am saying, there is more to the story they are presenting. Often, it is not what is written that we need to question, but that which is omitted.

I apologise for being to "harsh" and potentially abrasive. I just prefer being blunt at times.

AlwaysGreen

8th April 2006, 07:03 PM

London,
I agree with what you have said to Green Eyes. There is always more to a story especially when hearing from only one half of the equation. You are also correct in saying that often it is what is left unsaid that holds the key. But I do believe that if people have come here genuinly, seeking help, advise or just an ear, then we all try to do the best we can with the information they share. I loath to think people are coming here for their own merit and for self preening.

London

8th April 2006, 07:13 PM

I loath to think people are coming here for their own merit and for self preening

So do I, but you should have seen some of the posts a while back. And you know, I do genuinely want to help people - but also show there's more to what they think is the case.

greeneyes

10th April 2006, 01:25 PM

Hi London, thanks for sharing your story..I can see you came from one of those relationshipe that went stale - i know they do happen too, i think in some ways I strangely enough find them more acceptable than those who end in an exit affair.
With the isue of vows, many have been brought up to believe they are binding "till death do you apart", and for some this can mean far more to them than to others, also we are brought up (well not so sure these days!!!) to follow the tradition of how we should live a christian life. To have an affair is a tragedy to any relationship, some can really build and make it better, others crumble....but when a person has an affair and walks away from their partner with no explanation, no remorse and no clear "reason" or even being preared to "try" that is wicked - if they were unhappy they could have done what you did..talk about it and agree to part, at least the other one would have not felt they were a failure - it destroys all your confidence and you try to find reasons why he/she is "better" than you. If there had been no one else involved those feelings would not have been so devastating?
It appears to me that people who have an exit affair, bide their time until an opportunity to "jump ship" arises, then they do it and to hell with the person they have left behind !
Those who usually do this, unsually continue to do so again and again...but i am a great believer in the saying what goes round comes round!

Desperate

15th April 2006, 12:26 AM

It's now been over 4 weeks since my wife and I last spoke. She asked me to give her time and that is what I have done, although I know this is in vain. I have no doubt she has been continuing her affair....she certainly has not been sitting around at her temporary residence twidling her thumbs. I also now know from her behaviour that she wanted out of my marriage before I even found out she was having an affair. She said initially it was a mistake but what kind of wife ups and leaves a partnership of 14 years over a "mistake". This affair has been going on for a long, long time and I doubt she will ever tell me the real story.

Although I am still finding it impossible to let go, the reality is she has already gone. I have to deal with the pain of all of this somehow (thought this was supposed to get better with time??) but right now, my immediate concern is do I press ahead with a divorce? Or do I just bide my time? You see, I'm not rushing out into any deep relationship....not for a long time. So I'm not sure what benefits there would be for me to grant her this wish. Yeah, you could view this as being perhaps a bit vindictive but my wife has laid the ground rules from the start. She has strung me along and put me through unimaginable hell in the process, so I don't see that I owe her any favours.

That aside, we will be attending our first joint Mediation shortly. I'm fairly certain that the mediator may want to clarify if we intend to divorce and when. I believe that whilst I remain married, my wife is still legally responsible for paying half the mortgage, rates and taxes etc until such time as a divorce is final. Also, I believe that because I am living in our house, she cannot receive her split of the finances until a divorce is final. And I also believe I have 5 years to now string her along. Can anyone shed any light on my legal standing here? I have arranged an appointment with a solistor but that's over 2 weeks away. Any guidance would be apprecaited. Thanks.

c3pow

18th April 2006, 05:41 PM

I am sorry to hear of your plight. I understand the pain and shock that you feel. It seems like the end of your world and there is no reason for it. The best thing to do may seem to be to try to make sense of it all. This is not easy. Like you I one day was told it was all over, with no aparrent warning, and it took me 12 months before I could sleep past 4.30 a.m regardless of what I drunk the night before.
I tried to make sense of it, i read many books, went to therapy, joined several forums,read every site I could find.
It is only natural to look for blame, when things go wrong and trying to divide the blame is tempting. My x left me and she believed that I was 100% to blame, despite 36 years together - being faithful, sober, non-violent....etc.. and she still probably believes the same. No comment.
It takes two to tango is a common comment, and indeed a relationship is like a dance with millions of steps, where many steps taken are a reaction to your partners previous bad reaction and so it goes on and on. Attributing fault and blame is not easy when relationships are so complicated.
What I have learnt is that looking for blame and not forgiveness in a relationship is destructive, and that the best thing is to forgive and move on. Anger will only hurt the the bearer.
It is also appears to me that the people that we enter into relationships with have a different genetic predisposition to us and also a different upbringing - and their understanding of commitment is not the same as our own. In a relationship there is always one that will back out first.
My advice would be for you to improve yourself, look after yourself, exercise, make new friends and find new interests. It is more likely that your wife will then see you as a successful independent person and not someone still on the end of her 'line'. Asking for a reconciliation attempt may succeed sometimes but is more likely to be interpreted as an attempt at control, hanging on and a limitation on her freedom.
Live your life as though your marriage is over and you prepare yourself for a new life and at the same time you may make reconciliation more likely - but do not believe it will happen, it usually doesn't.
It is unlikely you can keep her hanging on for five years.All she has to do is file for divorce on the grounds of unreasobnable behaviour, she could claim that you failed to feed her pet goldfish and would be likely to succeed. 93% of all divorces are brought by women and most of these are UB. Defense would be futile, expensive and unlikely to succeed in anything useful.
With regard to finances, there are many sites on the net with good advice, and yes she is still liable for some of the costs of your home, but not all....but equally the money she spends`at the moment will also affect the final 'pot' when it comes to ancillary relief. My x went on a spending spree, including our life savings, which she spent mostly on clothes and holidays, so be careful too. 2 weeks should be soon enough, matters are not likely to change in the intervening time.
So look after yourself, look forward not back and in the end you will be ok, I nearly am and it has been 18 months. There is a good future out there, you just have to find it. Good luck.

Desperate

18th April 2006, 11:57 PM

C3pow, thanks for your thoughts. I have been making a big effort to look after myself physically. The mental part has been very hard though. I am now seeing a Psychologist and Psychiatrist....never ever would have believed my life would have ended up like this. I think I may have lost my job as well but waiting for confirmation from bosses when they return from Europe Wednesday.

My wife called this afternoon, haven't spoken with her in over 4 weeks. She's coming around tomorrow to discuss the mediation papers etc and I am 100% certain, to FINALLY tell me it's over. I know it is...but hearing it - no matter how many times I've prepared myself for it - this is going to be very hard. God, I love her so much. She is half of me.

c3pow

19th April 2006, 01:06 AM

It may well be. The best thing I would think is to co-operate.....after all it's only paperwork...if you want to save the relationship, paperwork is not the issue. Seem content, well adjusted and confident, talk about unimportant things, be a person she is comfortable to be with, not one who makes demands.... let the solicitor do that.
If no good comes of it, at least you will have your dignity,my wife spoke to me for 6 months after the separation - since then there has not been a single word
Best of luck, expect the worst and you will not be surprised.

Martha

19th April 2006, 01:48 PM

I second what you say. When its gone, its gone and I think you will find it difficult to let go and move on with your life if you are hold on to bitterness. Its understable to feel this way but you really need to look after no.1 now, so whatever you decide to do Desperate, make sure it actually benefits you. I wish you well with your meeting and if she says it's over, try and be strong. Martha.

Martha

20th April 2006, 08:21 PM

Well, my wife finally confirmed last night that our marriage is over. We spent about 3 hours together and I was able to get answers to some of my questions but not all. Some questions she didn't even understand the answers to herself. But it is clear my wife left my marriage before I found out about this affair. It was good to get some kind of closure but, I was crying inside throughout our discussions. What hurt the msot was knowing that she had introduced her new lover to her mother 2 weekends after moving out the house, when she separated saying she needed time. I wasn't even cold and buried. That hurt very much because it shows how much she felt and cared about me. It also proved there was no need for me to go through 3 months of absolute trauma, she had made her decision at the start of 2006, probably earlier.

Despite what has happened, I know I will love my wife for a long time to come. But I somehow now need to move on with my life. I guess this will take a long time but hopefully I will get there in the end.

Broken Wings

20th April 2006, 08:45 PM

Time is a great healer I guess. It's taken me 18 months to feel relatively okay about things but I still have moments when I get those old pains especially when I bump into my ex. I've met someone else very recently so am feeling much happier and positive about things.

Desperate

22nd April 2006, 10:42 PM

Kate

22nd April 2006, 11:28 PM

Dear Desperate

Just read your post and wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you as you face this clear decision by your wife. The deep rejection of our beloved partner choosing someone else is agony. I don't suppose she will ever realise what she has done unless it happens to her at some point in the future.

There will probably never be any real answers to all the questions that you have, but keep in touch as you work your way throuhg this difficult time.

Kate

daffodils

22nd April 2006, 11:28 PM

It's over. My wife has said she wants a divorce and is 100% certain of her decision. She admitted that she knew this before she even left me. I still don't understand what really happened and she seems very reluctant to explain it all to me. I still can't believe she has gone forever. I just wonder if she will ever realise how much hurt and damage she has inflicted. This is one I will carry with me to my grave.

Dear Desperate,

We are in a very same situation. My husband cheated on me and he is the one wanted the divorce... I will never understand this... My H knows how much pain he cause me and he see me suffering as we still living in the same house eventhough his decission for divorce is 100% final... I have received lots of encouraging mails from Helen, Shadow & others... I think the best thing for us to focus now to our own self.... (Daffodils)

Daff

AlwaysGreen

23rd April 2006, 12:34 AM

Desperate & Daffodils
I can offer you no words of solace at this time other than "My thoughts are with you".
You are correct Daffodils, it is time now to focus on yourselves. Please believe that in time, you will both mend. Things have been very hard and painful for you, and will continue to be so, but one day you will be smiling and laughing and will have no pain. You will probably never have understanding, but there will come a day, when you stop looking for it.
I am sorry for the anguish you are no doubt suffering now, but remember and tell yourselves that you are worthy of a great life and are determined to still have one.
Take it one step at a time. Allow yourselves to follow the flow of your emotions with the now and what follows. The road ahead of you will be an emotionally bumpy one but so long as you are prepared for the assortment of emotions, then you will get through it. I don't know how long your roads are going to be, but I bet your cotton socks, you will be "Striding" by the end of it.
If there is anything for you too gain from your visits here, it is the knowledge that people do care.
x

Desperate

2nd May 2006, 02:23 PM

Just an update on things...I finally managed to get a few answers out of my wife, although she has told so many lies I simply don't know what to believe. But I do know that she has been sleeping with this guy for about a year before I found out. That betrayal is very hard to come to terms with. I feel like my integrity has been hijacked and thinking that this woman had been with another man when we made love over that year is sickening.

I am also fairly convinced now that the guy she is with wasn't separated at the time they started their affair but that their affair led to the break-up of his marriage too. So it seems my wife may have left two people broken. I will find out for sure though, I intend to contact the OPs wife and find out the full story.

I am also meeting with my wife this evening and will be telling her I want absolutely nothing do do with her, no contact, no emails, no phone calls. I want that woman out of my life forever. I have done much soul searching over the months, in particular the last 3 weeks and have realised that my wife never loved me...I guess she may have been infatuated with me when we got married but the first person to show her interest, she has an affair. She never once tried to mend things, talk to me or other. She simply wasn't interested in me, or our marriage and am certain now she never was...I was just a companion until something better came along. It's hard to finally realise these things but a reflection on her behaviour has made this clear to me. Such is life.

RichG

2nd May 2006, 05:29 PM

Just registered here and the first thread I saw was this one. It's like looking at a profile of my current situation. My wife told me on Saturday that she no longer wants to be together. Things have been rough since she began paramedic training last year and became "friends" with a male colleague. After we decided that we would re-locate back to our old home time and I came down to get things going, things went downhill very rapidly. I got paranoid and drunk and checked her texts - not nice I know but who's fair and rational in these situations? Found one from him telling her that he was lying in bed thinking of all the things he wishes he was doing to her. My blood froze. She denied any wrongdoing and said it was just a joke. A week later and I'm beginning life as a single man.

All the feelings of hurt, pain and betrayal that you're feeling I totally empathise with. I've been worried about this "friend" for a while and have spent many nights awake trying not to picture them together. Not easy when we haven't shared a bed since she started training and every night she was away training she spent with him. Am lucky to have some good friends that have taken me in as she has left me with next to nothing. The next task of finding a job now seems so daunting as I can not think of anything else apart from her and what she's done. I want to erase the entire 8 years we've been together from my mind and feel it's all been a huge waste.

Sorry - wanted to try and give you some words of encouragement rather than getting that off my chest. I have been through similar before and I reckon that the hurt never goes but it does diminish. Stick with it mate, look after yourself as that is the most important thing right now. Please don't let it destroy you, as much as it feels like it could. I know it hurts - spent the last few days in bits, crying & shouting and plotting revenge. But to hell with her, it's her choice. The bloke my ex is seeing has 3 other women on the go so if that's her level, she's welcome to it. Chin up fella...

Desperate

2nd May 2006, 08:41 PM

Thanks for your reply Rich. It's taken me 3 months to get to this stage, where my emotional hurt has now turned to clear realisation and anger. Sounds like your story is very similar to mine and I do truly empathise...I guess what goes around comes around, and whilst that's scant comfort, at least you have your integrity intact, which is more than I can say for both our wives.

RichG

2nd May 2006, 09:21 PM

Hey mate - just wanted to check how it went this evening.Was thinking about you as I have to do the same in this weekend. Hope that you managed to keep it together, say what needed to be said and then walked away with a bit of pride. If not, no worries - it's much harder to do then say. Not sure I'll manage it myself. More likely is that I'll get progressively more angry as I probe into the murky depths of her private life even though I know it will hurt me. Part of the process I think!

Kinda wierd as my Mum is off to see her tomorrow for a previously booked lunch date. No problem really, just don't wanna hear about it. Also got her birthday soon, part of me wants to send flowers and part of me would prefer to ignore it. Guess which one I'll go for??!!

Anyway, if you read this tonight, hope you're OK. Chances are that if you're staring at the ceiling at 4am, I and many others out there will be doing the same. I try to sleep, reverting to inane thoughts such as how to spend that elusive lottery jackpot (got it down to the last penny as I've lay awake many nights!) or just anything to keep my mind off things. Only way to cope - Dark room and dark thoughts are not a good combination. But we'll get through it!

Take it easy mate - let us know how you're doing.

Desperate

3rd May 2006, 01:03 AM

Stupid me, decided to watch a movie on one of the Sky channels...I ended up watching something called The Bridges Of Madison County....bad move, if you've seen it, you'll know why...didn't know what it was about 'till half way through.

I saw my wife. I wrote down a few bullet point notes so as not to lose track of my thoughts. I told her everything in about 2 minutes then got up and walked away. (We met at a lakeside restuarant) She came after me saying "wait, you can't just walk off, what about... etc"...I just couldn't take anymore. I was hurting like I've never hurt before but I couldn't turn back and hear anymore. I told her I don't want anything to do with her. I swear my heart was bleeding. My integrity was intact but that's about all.

It's going to take me a long time to get over this, she was part of my very being and I no longer feel complete. I doubt I ever will but I have to try and make the best of my life. I owe that to my family and friends...and myself.

I wish you the best of luck when you speak to your wife. You're right about keeping away from dark rooms and places, I try and get out now whenever I can or I'm sure I'll not make the morrow. Good luck M8 & keep me posted, Sean.

RichG

3rd May 2006, 01:47 AM

Hi Sean

Good on yer mate - did what needed to be done. Did the same on Sunday at the train station after a very tense 4 hr drive from the North East (she'd decided to end it on a weekend away to see friends - nice!). I was driving her car and at times I looked at the odd motorway bridge and thought how easy it would be to just swerve.......

But like you say you owe to all the family & friends you have around, who have supported you as best they can through this. Most of all you owe it to you. Cliche I know but it's true. I did try some stupid things a few years ago after a similar situation and the anxiety it caused those around me was too much to EVER go down that route again. Besides, got a brand new godson to watch growing up - that little bloke could make anyone smile!

So I resolved to do what you did and just walk away - got out, got my case, said I'd call her and walked away. So, so difficult to do. Felt proud though as normally I'd be an emotional wreck hanging on to every last second with her. So I reckon that's progress of sorts. I too got something along the lines of "Doesn't 8 years mean anything to you?" - I swear to god I couldn't actually think of any expletive foul enough to express my anger / frustration at this.

Anyway, well done. Hope I manage as well - unfortunately I will be moving loads of my stuff so I won't manage a 2 minute getaway, which was btw a very impressive time! And yeah, TBOMC is not a good movie choice!!!

Will keep you posted - take it easy..

RichG

4th May 2006, 01:20 PM

Hey fella - just checking that you're OK? Post a reply and let us know please...

Desperate

6th May 2006, 03:31 AM

Hi Rich...I'm okay but have had a very bad week, yet again. Had my wife call me whilst I was at a business venue Wednesday and I totally lost it. I told her what I truly believed and thought of her. Although probably in quite a savage manner, it was the truth and my anger was uncrontrolable. Long story short, I managed to find out her lovers address and home phone number (already have his mobile). Guess what? He lives down the road from where my wife took up residence, i.e., my wife intentionally moved to be VERY close to him. So yet again, the "I need space/separation" thing was just another bag of lies.

She admitted that they had sex when she told me she was going away on business trips. Of course, she wasn't on business but booked into hotels in and around Milton Keynes where they did their thing. Man, some people have no morals or conscience. My wife really has sold her soul to the devil. I learnt more too, that her lover was married when they had the affair but I got some lame excuse about the OP & his wife agreeing to go their separate ways prior to my wife getting involved. What a load of crock...

I also found out the OPs wifes address and phone number (Voters Registar and Marriage Registar) but have decided to leave things now. I could call her, or her kids and really blow things up (Her kids are unaware that my wife has been ^&%*& their father for a year or so). Frankly, it wouldn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things and I would only end up hurting her children, which is not what I wish to do.

I have extremely mixed feelings right now. Absolute disgust is certainly one of them. Shock & horror that I was actually married to this woman. Deep feelings of betrayal, abuse etc, etc.

Anyway, enough of me - how is your situiation developing? Have you met with your wife yet, or spoken with her since your last post? How are you coping with things at the moment? Strange, I have also had thoughts about doing something stupid (many times) as you mentioned in your previous post , like swerving into a bridge. But my wife would almost certainly celebrate that and breathe a sigh of relief... and my family and friends would be left to deal with that whilst she enjoys life.

I hope your move is going smoothly, it can't be easy with the wife around....good luck though and do keep me posted on how you're doing. Cheers M8.

RichG

10th May 2006, 12:06 AM

Hi Sean

Glad that you're still kicking!

Been a strange week. Sent my wife some flowers on her birthday last week and got a really nice call from her later that night. Left it by agreeing to meet up this week. Still love her more than anything and miss her so much, tonight being especially hard.

Started to question if anything has gone on and perhaps it hasn't - don't know, just so confused. Just got used to being angry and resolute but now all over the place as I don't know what to think about it all. Just can't get past the text he sent her. Can't dismiss is it as "having a laugh". This bloke has spent more quality time with my wife in the last 8 months than I have.

I dunno - not articulating this very well at all. So much going on in my head...

Starting a new job next week and need to be 100% on the ball but the way my head is at the moment I'll be about as on the ball as Rooney will be in Germany! Sorry, terrible pun...

Hope she well call tomorrow and we can meet up, though it will probably end up like it always does - going round in circles until we're thoroughly peed off and me stomping off in a mood.

Anyway, sorry to hear you've had a bad week mate. Have to say that calling you at work after you have already stated that you want no contact is wrong in my book. Not right that she should be messing with your head - the armchair psychologist in me would she suggest that you telling her where to go when you met up has perhaps unsettled her, that she has begun to realise that she is losing control over you and your life. Could be wrong of course. But if she is continuing to see this excuse for a man why try to keep you dangling? Totally understand you wanting to speak to his wife but also glad you've resisted - as you say, kids are involved. They (and his wife) will ultimately suffer enough as these things tend to blow up eventually. Feel like letting this other bloke's partner know what he's up to but don't know her full name. Not sure that I would anyway but reckon he deserves some sort of comeback.

Keep me posted on how you're doing - will let you know how things go if we meet up..

Desperate

10th May 2006, 03:15 AM

Hi Rich....seems we're both up late tonight. I really understand how you are feeling....it's a hell of a position to be in. When you love someone as much as you love your wife, your mind can run riot with all kinds of things....what is she doing now, is she in bed with him, did she tell me the truth the other day, how much of the truth has she told me, how many lies, is there any hope, am I clutching on to straws.....

Then there is the pain that eventually turns to realisation and anger....and when she calls and says some kind words, the anger goes, only to be replaced by the hurt again...and so your mental state goes back to the position it was in when you first leaned about the affair....sleepless nights, pain in the heart and stomache, no sleep, can't focus on the simplest of tasks, let alone a job....

Can I ask, have you tried marriage counseling, or is she prepared to try? The fact that your wife is seeing a man who has 3 other women on the go ... does she know this? If so, I can't see how she would wish to sacrifice her marriage when it is clear the OP is not interested in any seroius relationship, with her or any of the other 3 women involved.

I understand your toughts on payback...I nearly contacted the OPs wife. In your case, if there are no kids involved, it may be something worth doing. This guy obviously has no morals, having 3 women plus your wife??? I'd stitch him good and proper....he deserves it. Get a P.I. to do some work for you...if too expensive, try doing a bit of P.I. work youself. You need some answers mate and not knowing will only make things worse. I know you love her but if she won't come clean and tell it as it is, you either have to grab the bull by the horns, take control and tell her to move on ... and shift a gear whilst she's at it, or fight to try and save your marriage. But you need to know if she is still seeing this guy, what her intentions are etc.

Please keep us posted. If she has a mobile phone, why not track it? That way, you can get a good idea of where she is at any time just by looking at the internet (a map shows location of mobile to within 200 meters) Good luck, Sean

RichG

10th May 2006, 07:07 PM

Hi Sean

You've hit the nail on the head with much of what you said.

Spent today alternating between anger and longing to be with her.

Now waiting to see if she will call tomorrow. . .

My wife originally balked at the idea of counselling but mentioned it the other day. Will look into to it but my gut feeling is that she will go through the motions if only to be able to walk away thinking that at least she tried...

This mobile tracker seems intersting but the only ones I can find either cost a fortune or require permission from the mobile owner to be tracked. Do you know of any sites that get around this?

Due to go Spain in a couple of weeks with some friends - she was supposed to be going but obviously not now. Will spend the entire time thinking about what she will be up to with me 1000 miles away. Suppose it makes no difference whether it is 100 or 1000 but that's the way the mind works.

Gonna go now, not really up to saying much today. Take it easy mate - will post again soon.

Helen

10th May 2006, 09:24 PM

RichG,

If your wife is talking about counselling, it sounds to me as though she is willing to give it a go. So do not dismiss it as something she will go through the motions with just yet. I would also say if you are going to track her doings via the mobile, this indicates a lack of trust. In this circumstance, counselling is a waste of time since you are not giving her any room to come back to you of her own free will. Plus rebuilding trust is an important part of rebuilding a relationship...

Maybe, once you have been through the counselling and given your relationship a chance to bear fruit, if you feel that things still aren't working, THAT would be the time to keep tabs on her doings? Not before.

Just a thought...

Helen

Desperate

10th May 2006, 11:18 PM

Helen has a point but, in my case, it didn't work. My wife also attended couselling, but purely to say that she tried.....she had no intention of coming back and admitted as much last week. Everything she said from the day I found out was nothing more than a bunch of lies. Had I tracked her phone at the start, I would have known the extent of the affair, instead of being dragged through sheer hell for 3 months, hanging onto a wing and a prayer, only to find out the true horror story. Had I known then what I know now, I would have kicked her out of my life for good and placed a restraining order on her if she tried contacting me. Trust is a big ask when it comes to extra-marital affairs.

However, each person is different and your wife is different to mine. Perhaps what Helen is saying makes good sense. I just know I could never trust again under the same circumstances, and would track mobiles or do what I had to to make sure I knew the full story. Let's face it, people having affairs either lie, or only tell you part of the story. They are not going to boast of their conquests.

Definately give the counseling a go and try to be objective about it. Try not to let too much anger come through. It's hard but good counsel can really get to the roots of a problem and it's amazing what to partners can learn about each other that they never knew. And what they can learn about themselves too!

Desperate

20th August 2006, 05:03 PM

Hi. Welll, almost 7 months on now since my wife left for another man, a man she works with. It has been hard for me to move on without getting amswers, so I have spent the past 2 months doing just that. Since my wife was unwilling to provide these answers, or lied and deceived me when she did, I had to find out for myself, sleuthing the hard way.

She moved in with the OP in July. I managed to track down his address and phone number. Their answer machine said "hi you've reached Mike & ______ Amazing, hearing that hurt so much. We aren't even divorced yet and my partner of 14 years is now living in his house.

I also decided to contact his wife. Long story short, I now know for certain that my wife is directly responsible for destroying their marriage and their family. They have 3 children. The eldest is aware of what has happened and is devastated. I know, I met her and although I didn't tell her who I was, her eyes and voice said everything. The OPs wife is devastated too. This entire affair has been a terrible tragedy. My wife has destroyed so many lives.

For 7 months, I was aware that there were other people involved in this that have been badly hurt. But I was so consumed with my own hurt and anger that I never really considered their circumstances. After hearing what his wife had to say, and seeing her eldest daughter, I was almost in tears. This poor woman gave her husband 20 years of the best part of her life and 3 beautiful chidren to boot. In return, she is betrayed, humiliated and traded in for a woman almost 10 years her junior....my wife. What a piece of work my wife turned out to be. I feel so ashamed for what she has done.

There is one positive that has come out of this. I now have full closure and am so glad I no longer have that monster in my life. It is strange because born of the tragedy his wife and children now have to endure, I have release from my pain. Life is very strange indeed.

Desperate

24th September 2007, 03:02 PM

My divorce came through today. I was hoping that this end point would make me feel more at peace but, it has had the opposite effect. I feel crushed.

I learnt a lot more about the affair since my last posting on this topic, over a year ago. I won't go into the details. Suffice to say that my ex-wife betrayed me in a manner I never believed possible.

I also learnt that I have been right about almost all of the hunches I had regarding her affair - and her opinion of me and our marriage. It seems clear that my marriage was a huge mistake on my part. I will now live to pay the price and suffer the consequences for this.

Desperate

24th September 2007, 03:50 PM

Morty, there is a lot, some too personal and mind blowing to digest, let alone discuss. I am still numb at it all.

The affair had been ongoing for over 2 years. She told her mother about the affair months before I ever found out. Her mother advised her on what to do in order that she got 50% of everything we have (stupid, laws in the UK would have ensured that anyway?) I was also told 2 months ago that she had been sleeping with a friend of mine before we even moved to the UK 9 years back...that news nearly tore me apart. I never, ever suspected a thing! Even now, despite all she has done, I can't bring myself to believe it, it is just awful.

It seems from the communications I have had from our circle of friends that her marriage to me was one of convenience. She was simply hitching a ride until something more attractive came along. We were one month away from paying off our mortgage when she moved out...we arrived in the UK with NOTHING and after a hard slog, she pounced and I am now left with a massive mortgage.

In a nutshell Morty, my wife never loved me...that is the clear message I am getting from everyone who knew us together....and the clear message she has given me. She used me and I let her get away with it because I was blind and stupid.

confused10

24th September 2007, 04:07 PM

I really feel your pain Desperate. I also believe you cant forcefully make ur wife love you . The more you go after her , she will make you suffer. My wife too left me a week ago telling me she needed space. Initially i begged her not to go. But when i stopped contacting her except mentioning about counselling appointments , her tone changed.

callow

24th September 2007, 09:29 PM

Hi Desperate

I am so sorry to hear of your divorce. I read many stories where new divorcees are popping open the champagne. If and when I am divorced, it will not be like that for me. It will be a very sad day.

Your self esteem and confidence is at rock bottom at the moment. Be gentle with yourself, slowly build up your self esteem. It will take a while, but one day you will feel great again.

All the best

Sally

Desperate

24th September 2007, 11:01 PM

Funny you should mention Champagne Sally. I ordered her a bottle via the internet this morning for delivery at her work tomorrow. No note, just a boxed bottle. I sent a 2 line email to her saying thanks for everything she has done to me and that the champagne was for her to celebrate her momentous victory. I hope she chokes on it.

MichelleWA

26th September 2007, 11:18 AM

I probably shouldn't even be posting, but I've read your whole thread and I am truely sorry to hear about your ordeal. I could feel the pain through the posts. Anyway, I understand about divorce and the feeling it gives you. My first divorce, although i thought it would be a breathe of relief, it felt more like a failure. I was depressed the whole day in court and what made it horrible was that my husband offered to drive me back to work after our court appearance. Now it looks like we are going to go through that awful thing all over again, except I don't think I'll feel as bad as before.

Keep your chin up, love. You come first. I think the only thing that is good is that you both didn't have children and although there are children involved in this situation, you don't have to deal with her everyday because of a shared child.

Michelle

P.S. I liked the Champagne thing also. I know it's mean, but you deserve a bit of spite, huh? Say the devil made you do it. :grin: