Can't get past my anger - help pse

[Murray]

Hi,

I've posted on here before so I'd ask you out there who have tried to offer advice and help before to pse bear with me.

To cut a long story short, I left my GF after 8yrs for another woman. We had been having heavy problems for some time but make no mistake, rather than keep trying to resolve them I left her for another.

After about 2 months I tried to get back together with her but she had started seeing and sleeping with another guy. They broke up and we have been trying to fix things but I can't move forward and am angry and resentful all the time.

During the time I was away my GF slept with the other guy in our (my) house and of course in my bed. This hurts me more than I can explain and it fills me full of anger toward her as I now feel really bad about sleeping in our house with her. Also during the time we were trying to get back together I found two emails to him asking to get back together with him, telling him how much she loves him, really fell for him, and if she got back with me it would be for the wrong reasons. She dismisses the content of the emails as lies just to keep a tie with him, kind of 'keep her options open 'as she was unsure about me coming back for good.

He'd written back to her that he didn't want to go as fast as she did in their relationship and that's why they broke up. That says to me that he walked away from it, not her breaking up with him to get back together with me as she's told me.

We've now been living together for about 2 months and I am so full of resentment and anger becuase I think she only came back becuase he didn't want to know. Our sex life has now hit a complete standstill, it's my fault, I just can't bring myself to be affectionate or aroused even becuase I constantly have this doubt about him and them in my mind. It's getting worse over time, not better, and I just don't know what to do.

If I walk away and she is telling me the truth ie it was a rebound thing she deeply regrests, and she did finish it to get back with me, then I may regret it for the rest of my life. If the emails were true ie pledging love and pleading with him to go back to her, then whenever he decides to come back she'll go back with him.

Let me say again, I was the one who walked in the 1st place, I take responsibility for that. It still doesn't help me though to get my feelings back for her or lose the anger and resentment I feel.

As I said, apologies to the posters who have heard this before, I'm sorry to burden this on you again, I've simply nobody to talk to about it and I don't know what to do. I work abroad Mon - Fri so can't even go and see a councillor but I am considering the Samaritans as it's starting to really affect me.

tks all,
Murray

[shadow]

I am really sorry for my post I dont think it is what you are looking for to hear :-(

As a BS I do understand the pain and anger you are going thru, why else you think I am up at this time of night. I have forgiven my husband that is the easiest part it is the forgetting that is hard, and sometimes I have trigger moments and it bring back all the pain, anger etc..... this is the third night in row I cant sleep cause I cant get images out of my head. So I do understand how you do feel.

I can understand, but I cant feel sorry for you..... :-(

It was WRONG what she did, I can understand tho, when I found out that my husband had a one night stand, I did have moments that I wanted to go and do it with some one else so he knew how it fel eye for eye kind of thing, from what I understand it is a normal reaction. Cause when a loved one cheats on you they do more then break the trust they make that person feel low, you bring their self esteem down to the lowest point, and they wrongfully blame themselves that they are ugly or whatever, and they want reassurance that they are still wanted and attractive, so where going out to find someone comes in place. This so very normal, but how to react to the feelings is important, I fought the impluse cause I didnt want to lower my self to the standard that my H did when he had the affair. I wanted to be a bigger person.

So yes it could of been a rebound thing, you destroyed her self confidence and she gave into the impluses of something that is normal when you find out your spouses cheated on you. But I am not defending her, cause 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Dont you think she is feeling the same way??? Everything that is running thru your mind, every emotion you feel she is feeling too. You basically got a taste of your own medicine.

But it can still work out for both of you. You started it by being the first to break the trust. I am glad to hear that you do admit to that. So you should be the first to trying to make the realationship work. Tell her your sorry and ask for forgivness, Be prepared to doing anything to show her your sorry and want to gain her trust back. Be very honest, even a little white lie on anything is a very big no no right now. She needs to do the same thing for her actions too. You both need to put the other in front of youselves for now.

There is nothing that you can do with the roller coaster of emotions that you are going thru, it is all part of the painful grieving that you have to go thru to heal. They say it takes 2 years after a affair to get the realation back to somewhat a good state again.

If a image pops into your head, what I do is try to replace it with a good memory, and if my husband is at home he seems to pick up on it and we will quietly talk about good times, or future plans, or just go for a walk holding hands. With time they will get farther and farther apart, but still there will be trigger moments that will all bring it back rushing in.

Commincation is very very important right now, talk and talk and talk, about what had happened and everything else under the moon.

And keep in mind whatever feeling you are going thru she is too.

Sex dont worry about that right now, communication will get things bottled up in you out and that will really help, and doing little things to show you love each other, bonding times, like walks, bubble baths, holding hands while watching movies, it will come back, especially when the communication starts, to me it sounds like you both have to much bottled up and it is putting a wall behind you.

Know I wasnt much help but hope something I said helped a little

[Murray]

Hi Shadow,

many, many tks for your note. It has helped me try to understand. I have forgiven her, I know it must have been even tougher for her to forgive me as I was the one who started it all, but you're right its the forgetting that I can't seem to handle. I have this thought that I'm second best to this other guy (the original theme of my first post) and feel that he's haunting me wherever I go.

Our bedroom is a miserable place for me, the memories or more rightly visions of him and her making love in that bed just totally dampen any desire I feel, and the memory of seeing him in my house one evening that I'd gone over just won't leave me.

I really don't think I can go on with it much longer, I just can't see anyway that I'll ever forget that she made love with somebody in our house and our bed.

It kills me every day. I know that I have to take this 'punishment'on the chin, it just screws me up totally.

best wishes,
Murray

[jools]

Maybe you need a fresh start in a new bed (easily done) and if that doesn't work a new home (not so easily done). Just a thought!
Jools.
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Murray]

Hi Jools, we'd thought about both options. In fact she turned the bedroom completely around, re-arranged everything, brought new bedding etc etc so I know she's trying. Sadly it still didn't work. We've thought about buying a new house and making a real fresh start but I don't know if I have the same feelings anymore and therefore simply changing house would mean a load of upheavel and expense only for it to fail straight away.

As I've said I work away from home and she comes over to stay at weekends i'm not home but it still doesn't change anything. It's the feeling of being 2nd best after she was dumped by him that haunts me + the visions of them together.

It's my fault, I can't simply believe that what they did was 'sterile and unemotional ' as she puts it and that she finished with him to come back to me. The emails are a complete contradiction to this and I have the same re-occuring doubts about her and him all the time.

I'm sorry for harping on and on about this, selfishly, it's a comfort to be able to 'talk' to somebody about this, at least it allows me to vent what I feel inside.

tks again,
Murray

[jools]

We've thought about buying a new house and making a real fresh start but I don't know if I have the same feelings anymore and therefore simply changing house would mean a load of upheavel and expense only for it to fail straight away. Oh dear. That doesn't sound too promising. You seem to be thinking of this relationship as a bit of a non-starter. Maybe you just need a fresh start with someone else.
Jools
________
TOYS BONDAGE (http://www.****tube.com/categories/1088/bondage/videos/1)

[Helen]

Murray,

You have been struggling with this for a while and you do not seem to have moved any further forward. Your options are pretty clear. You either buy a new bed - but I suspect then the fixation would be 'they did it in my house'. Or you buy a new house. But I suspect the real issue is she slept with this guy and your suspicion (which is possibly unfounded) that she would prefer to be with him. I think the bed/bedroom/house is a red herring.

If she wanted to be with him (and was presumably prepared to take things at a slower pace, which is what he asked for), she would be with him. She is with you. Can't you accept that?

If not, as Jools states, perhaps it is time to think about parting permanently. No point telling us how much you love her. If you love her, RESOLVE to put this behind you. Have counselling if necessary - either alone or together. But what you cannot do is continue in a non-relationship. It is not the way forward for either of you.


Helen

[Murray]

Hi Helen, nice to hear from you again.

I know you're 100% right, it's not really about the bed/house/bedroom, it's about him. I know that, the bed etc is simply a trigger that reminds of it.

I also understand your point, and it's a bloody good one, that if she wanted to be with him then she would have gone at a slower pace but chose not to. My problem is that I believe he finished it with her and she's come back to me for the wrong reasons which is what the emails said.

I think she did and does want to be with him but he's not interested, I think from what she's told me about how he behaved with her and the lack of any type of commitment he gave her that he saw her as a lonely 'new girl' behind the bar and (crudely) 'thought he'll have some'.

When he got fed up with her and/or she wanted more than occasional sex when he wanted it, he dumped her. This is exactly what she said in the em's to him.

I know what you mean about if I love her resolve it, but I feel she only loves me as a substitute for him and that's why I'm hung up about it.

You're absolutely right about it being a non relationship as well, I know it's true, I'm just waiting for something to change but I don't know what or how it will.

I'm scared Helen. If I walk away and have got it wrong I'll regret it forever, if I stay and have got it wrong I'll (seemingly) have this to deal with for a very, very, long time.

I know what I should do - walk away and re-build my life elsewhere, I'm just scared. That's all. I'm not asking for, nor expect any sympathy, I'm just trying to 'talk'it out with somebody and don't know how else to do it.

best wishes,
Murray

[Helen]

Murray,

I have touched on this before. I suspect she clung to this man because he was, literally, a knight in shining armor. At least, she thought he was at first. He 'rescued' her from her misery. After you left I have no doubt she felt like s**t. Ugly, unworthy, all of those things. And along came this guy and swept her off her feet. I also said previously that many of us women on here did similar things. We met new guys, either by going out or via online dating. And they seemed like our saviours because they made us feel desireable and worthy again. It sounds to me like the scales have fallen from her eyes and she now realises that this man was using her for sex. Bottom line. She thought she needed him because he made her feel better after she was abandoned. But the reality, retrospect, tells her he was using her. And she was using him, although she probably didn't feel that way at the time. She was using him because she needed to feel wanted and needed and he did all of those things for her and enabled her to forget about the pain of your abandonment.

Perhaps it was not adviseable for her to sleep with him in your home/your bed but you have already admitted that this isn't the issue. Not really. The real issue was she found him so quickly. She seemed to be 'in love' with him (although I think infatuated would be more accurate). And you think she would be with him if he hadn't rejected her. I think the reality is somewhat different. I have no doubt the scales would have fallen from her eyes eventually. It sounds to me as though they already were. She wanted something more than sex. And he was not willing to give it. She would not have put up with that situation indefinitely.

I think you are beating yourself up for nothing. You can talk about seeing them together in your head but what pictures do you think she has of you and your former girlfriend in her head? It goes both ways. Yes, there might be outrage that she lined up your 'replacement' so quickly. I would say you lined up her 'replacement' quicker! I don't mean to be flippant but I think you are focusing on the fact that she had this shortlived affair a bit too much. It didn't matter. She knows that now and this is what she is telling you. Yes, it probably mattered to her at the time but only because she saw this man as her beacon. He no longer is in her eyes.

Would you be making a mistake to walk away? I think you would but the situation you are both in is untenable. Her eyes and fidelity are now yours for the taking. But you are letting the past consume you. Put this relationship firmly where it belongs - in the past. It is over. It doesn't matter what she said in the emails. What matters is what she is saying now. If you are seriously worried, ask her what she would do if he tried to get back with her tomorrow. I think you would be surprised. Sometimes too much water passes under a bridge as a result of inactivity for any kind of future. She has no future with this man. In the back of her mind would always be - does he want me back for me or for sex? If she has any sense, she will know it is the latter. The situation is a non-starter.

It is up to you what happens from hereonin. It sounds to me as though she wants to be with you, she is taking all the right action and is saying all the right things. You are having a problem believing her. You need to ask yourself why this is, and why it matters so much, in the face of compelling evidence to the contrary.


Helen

[London]

Murray - I see you are back again and still "struggling" with the issue. Why are you starting a new thread - did you not go over our responses from the last time? Nothing has changed.

You're better off leaving her alone if you can't accept the fact that her subsequent actions were due to you abandoning her and telling it's over. Now that you come crawling back, you have the audacity to tell her that you can't get over the fact that another man "was there". She should tell you the same. Sorry for the harsh words, but you are a hypocritical person.

In case you need reminding YOUR ORIGINAL POST (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2719&page=1&pp=15)

Look Murray, your choices are very simple -

- get professional help
- get a new bed (although you'll still say things "aren't" the same
- get a new house (but you will say you're not sure if you still love her enuff for that)
- leave her alone (preferred option for all)

You are still being a hypocrite about things. REMEMBER THAT!!! You left her for another girl then came crawling back to her - and now you have issues about her being with someone else in the house you ABANDONED?

Not only that, but your GF is doing all she can to accomodate you and help you get through this. You are just looking for an excuse not to be with her but still blame her for things. Incredible.

Dude, your issues stem deep down inside you. Get help or get out.

[Annie]

Hi, have just read this and the previous earlier post.
I cannot help comparing you to my ex....I wont go into details here as they are available elsewhere on the site if you're interested.
To me it sounds like you only want her cos you realised somebody else "had" her.
I think you should leave her alone to sort her head out.After twelve months of misery I am, hopefully, getting over what my ex put me through. He constantly changed his mind over where our relationship was going. He was just like you....once he had me back right where he wanted me he wasn't interested. Now I am happier without him.
Leave her alone to make her own mind up.
Ann

[shadow]

Annie you made a good point there I didnt think of

To me it sounds like you only want her cos you realised somebody else "had" her

That is probably what did make him come back.

I can understand why she did what she did, it is still not right, but it is understandable and you need to find whatever way to get over this, without putting the blame all on her.

Works make it hard for you to see a couslor, then take some time off. Me and my hubby only went to a few, but those few he said that impacted us and made us think then from there we continued on our own to pratice what he said.

[Murray]

Thanks all, London, as candid as ever but I still appreciate it. Helen, again, tks for putting so much effort in. Shadow, Jools and Annie, tks also.

Ih has helped me focus the mind on what the real problem is, the real problem I have is insecurity. I agree with the reasons she went with the other guy, can also forgive her for it as I cast the 1st stone and left her for another so I take full responsibility. The problem then is my lack of belief that she wanted tro come back to me for me and not becuase he didn't measure up to her expectations or desires. I think she did find him very good for her but he wanted something other than a relationship ie just a few rolls in the hay etc. When she wanted more commitment from him he left as it wasn't what he wanted and I was the next best thing.

We are in a terrible state right now and it's not getting any better at all. I fear for the future, I just can't see how we can resolve this. She now wants to throw bullets at me about what I did to make her do what she did etc and seemingly doesn't care about my opinion or feelings about him, in fact she told me exactly that.

I'm home this weekend so I guess we'll try and communicate but it's awful at the moment.

tks all,

Murray

[jools]

OK, no marriage, no kids and not much of a relationship to talk about. I reckon, stop torturing the two of you and get out now. I honestly can't see any other way forward...short of a lobotomy. Don't mean to be mean, but I reckon that's about the size of it.
Jools. (Good luck!)
________
MOTORCYCLE TIRES (http://www.motorcycle-tech.com/tires/motorcycle-tires)

[Helen]

She now wants to throw bullets at me about what I did to make her do what she did etc and seemingly doesn't care about my opinion or feelings about him, in fact she told me exactly that.Being honest, I am with her on this. Your opinion is irrelevant. You could not possibly have the gall to comment on what she did when you were apart - could you? She only did what she did because you left. She is probably tired of listening to you bleat on about it as well. You say 'we are in a terrible state'. No, YOU are in a terrible state and you are inflicting it on her.

I agree with Jools. It's time to throw in the towel.

Edit: I wanted to add that when you came to this forum you outlined this issue and asked for an objective view. The objective views are all saying more or less the same thing. Yet you keep coming back to ask the same question! Do you think any of us are going to say something different? Or perhaps you feel if you ask the same question often enough, someone will agree with your point of view? Murray, it isn't going to happen and I am not surprised your partner isn't interested in your feelings or opinions when it comes to this particular matter. Ultimately, what she did when you were apart is none of your business.

As far as I am concerned, you are going round in circles with this. You keep asking the same question/making the same statements and you seem unable to accept the advice you are asking for. And you keep getting the same advice. Over and over. I do feel sorry for your partner because you seem to think she did something wrong. She didn't. What it boils down to is your rage at the fact that she had the nerve to sleep with, and have feelings for, someone else. Well, so did you - and you did it first. Do not dare try to apply a double standard to your partner. Try to have your cake and eat it. You are behaving as though she cheated on you and she didn't. Get over it or ship out. My gut feeling though is it really is time to move on.



Helen

[London]

Thanks all, London, as candid as ever but I still appreciate it. Helen, again, tks for putting so much effort in. Shadow, Jools and Annie, tks also.

you do realise we are all saying the same thing to you - IN THE INTEREST OF YOUR PARTNER, PLEASE LEAVE HER ALONE. YOU RUINED THINGS FOR HER AND ARE MAKING HER MISERABLE.

[Helen]

When he got fed up with her and/or she wanted more than occasional sex when he wanted it, he dumped her. This is exactly what she said in the em's to him....

I'm scared Helen. If I walk away and have got it wrong I'll regret it forever, if I stay and have got it wrong I'll (seemingly) have this to deal with for a very, very, long time. I have come back to this thread because I feel sure, Murray, that you are still lurking to see how our dealings with your partner work out. I picked out these 2 paragraphs for a reason.

On the first - your partner isn't with him (and isn't even yearning for him) precisely because he could not (would not) give her what she wanted. In other words, he was not suitable. She is not with you by default. She is with you because he could not give her what she wanted and regardless of who called time, time was called. She has gone along with that, despite any emails that were sent, because deep down, she knows it would never work. She isn't willing to be a roll in the hay for anyone. She could have carried on pursuing this man. She chose not to because he was not what she wanted, ultimately.

On the second - you have a choice over how long you both have to deal with this. Don't you know that? Every time you ask your partner a question, if the answer isn't what YOU EXPECT to hear, it is the wrong answer. So you continue to ask questions until you get the answer you expect to hear - then you go nuts! Why are you doing this to yourself - and her? Why can't you just accept that she wants to be with you? This is what she is telling us and she has no reason to lie to us (even if you think she is lying to you). I have read everything Molly has posted and she comes across as honest and decent (if guilt ridden - for NO REASON, might I add!). But she is saying she only wants you and she loves you.

Murray, do yourself (and all of us) a favour and accept what she is saying. She is even apologising! If you look at the situation dispassionately, you have to know that she owes no one any apologies whatsoever. But she is willing to do whatever it takes to reassure you. I wish I could say we (on the board were willing to do the same...actually, no I am not, because we do not owe you a thing!). All we want to do, however, is try to get through to you that this is as good as it is going to get. It really is up to you to determine how long this period of angst is drawn out. None of us here (including Molly) have any control. That said, draw this out at your peril. Your fear is about knowing this. If you continue to give her a hard time, one day she will turn around and tell you she has had enough. There is only so much a person can take...


Helen

[Murray]

Hi Helen,

firstly let me assure I am not lurking. Molly and I have been speaking at length at the weekend to try and resolve what we're going thru. I'd previously said to her that talking on this forum had helped me no end. Perhaps the advice I was seeking was not always useful, perhaps I was looking for somebody to tell me what I wanted to hear, but nonetheless all the replies at least gave me somebody to talk to about the problem and it helped to talk.

I am in Korea today, flew down from Amsterdam yesterday. Molly and I had discussed about her putting some posts on this site as I'd already said it had helped me, hence her posts.

We have been speaking on the phone about the outcome so far and we both feel it is helping a little which is something we haven't been able to achieve for some time.

I'll say again, I was to blame for this mess, I recognise it and take responsibility for it. I am also not manipulating molly with this, I/we thought it may help us both.

Helen - your quote above polarises the whole thing for me -

" your partner isn't with him (and isn't even yearning for him) precisely because he could not (would not) give her what she wanted. In other words, he was not suitable. "

This is my absolute problem in a nutshell and frankly I'm beyond caring if this seems to others like this is the same old stuff being put out again becuase this is the root cause of my problem.

Yes I do care about molly sleeping with somebody else but I understand it and have got passed it / forgiven it (even if as many of you say she did nothing wrong), the sleeping with him in our bed still hurts but that's simply my pride being dented and if that's too grand for some people to relate to, then thats too bad. Nonetheless I'm ok with it and have moved on from it.

My problem is insecurity for exactly the reason you qouted. I've spoken at length with Molly about it and although she understands she knows it's huge for me and us right now.

I trully, honestly want to believe her, but I just can't and that's my problem. It's not Molly's fault, I desperately want to believe in her, I just can't and it's killing me and us. My read on it is exactly as you've put it, if he had come up to shape I wouldn't be in her life now and becuase he didn't she's with me. I can't help the way I feel, I know I need help with this, I don't know how to achieve it.

If this note back to you sounds harsh in some areas I apologise, I'm frustrated with myself, feel very insecure, very guilty for what I did and what it caused but still feel 2nd best nonetheless.

One thing is for certain though. I won't give up on it. If, as you say, Molly gets tired of it and walks then there's nothing I can do, but I won't quit becuase I hope to get past this or at the very least find something I can latch onto to make me believe that I'm still her first choice.

I love her, I screwed up, I'm now taking my punishment for it but I won't quit. I'm just trying to seek help from out there somewhere.

Best wishes, a very jet lagged Murray.

[Helen]

Murray,

You could turn it on it's head. Don't you think the fact that he couldn't be what she wanted him to be makes HIM 2nd best? She chose YOU because, as far as she was concerned, YOU were the better option...

Edit: Incidentally, talking about what might have happened IF he had been able to give her what she wanted is a red herring and is, I think, the cause of this upset. He didn't. Hypotheticising the situation isn't helping things. The 'what ifs' never came to pass. This is why we are having difficulty understanding why this bothers you so much.


Helen

[Helen]

Murray,

I have to bow out of this now. I reflected on it for a while this morning and have concluded that I have said everything that can possibly be said about your situation. I don't see the point of carrying on because I am saying the same thing - I feel like I am repeating myself all the time. Others may decide to carry on with this but chances are they won't. You talk about your frustration, I am frustrated too. Well, fed up.

Good luck to you and Molly with this.


Helen

[Murray]

Hi Helen,

I've posted on Molly's thread but in essence I'm saying tks, a big tks for bearing with me on this whole horid issue. I have a different perspective on it now and this weekend has helped one hell of a lot.

You in particular have been a regular leaning post and I owe you a debt of gratitude even if you may think I'm a bit of a low life, so be it, perhaps I deserve it.

Best wishes for the future to you and all posters who have helped me and most recently molly. We have a better chance now than we had a few days ago and that is certainly worth celebrating.

best wishes,
Murray

[London]

To all, even London. Tks for your time, effort and support. It has been vital for us to have different people to discuss this thing with and I thank you very much.
Even London??? I brought this back to your thread becuase I didn't want to taint Molly's with my anger towards you. Whether you like what I had to say or not, the fact remains that everyone on this board has been in agreement with what said to you and Molly. At the end of it all, you are a big F**K*NG loser who deserves no one's love! Really, you don't. You are a self-obsessed, lying, hypocritical jerk who makes my blood boil whenever I see your name (and unfortunately has scarred me to the name Murray for the rest of my life). I hope you are sterile becuase even the mere thought of you ever pro-creating should scare the hell out of everyone.

Can you tell we are ALL fed up with you and your sorry saga?

I hope for Molly's sake that she dumps your sorry arse out the door for garbage collection day sooner rather than later.

[Murray]

London, I'm shocked. Rarely have I read such foul language on the internet from a grown up.

You are a grown up aren't you ?

But at least you're consistent my friend. Consistently loud mouthed and abusive. Yes, everybody has been in agreement with the fact that I have had it wrong, however everybody but you at least tries to put their view and advice across without a bullying and abusive manner.

I can only assume that somewhere in the past, recent or otherwise, you have been treated poorly by somebody and you wish to vent some anger toward anybody who either seems or in my case actually does the same to another.

Either that or you are just a retard who uses foul language when attempting to make a point in order to substitute for their limited intellect and vocabulary.

I make your blood boil ? You hope that I'm sterile ? As I mentioned earlier - are you really a grown up..?

I guess if I could take you seriously and stop myself from chuckling at your bullish, gutless behaviour I may become irritated with you too, but I don't. It's a source of amusement to lighten the current issues that I've created and am facing.

Perhaps there's a hint of jeolousy in your rants as clearly molly and I have a good chance at fixing this. I'll take a guess that if indeed somebody has walked out on you, they very, very quickly realised that absolutely nothing would influence them to come back and try to persevere with somebody such as yourself. I'm very lucky, Molly has and is doing so.

Are you just plain unlucky then ? Food for thought I guess..

Or is it you're simply a fool and a loudmouth.

I'm suprised that one of the administrators has not been in touch with you regarding your behaviour on a site where people are asking for support and encouragement.

Perhaps you should post a list of areas that you feel are not allowed to be asked or discussed as they are ' too close to home '.

Again, I suspect that this list would be an extremely long one.

However, best of luck to you, somehow I feel you will be very lonely for quite some time.

Murray

ps - if you post an address I'll send the childrens swear box over to you, I'm sure you'll quickly fill it for them.

[London]

Actually Murray - I am in a very happy relationship with someone and while all of us on this board have all had our breakups, never have i seen one as self centered as yours.

As far as you and Molly having a chance to fix things - I strongly doubt that. You don't have the ability to let go of your issue and Molly, as lovely as she is in giving you a second chance, will tire of your tirade.

Anyways Murray - I (like all of us here) am tired of you and your saga. Good bye.

[Murray]

So your tone has changed when somebody stands up to you. A stereotype bully as well then.

I couldn't care less what status you're relationship is. My relationship with Molly is indeed very self centred, I don't deny that, but I am trying to fix the problem that I caused. I say again, that I caused, becuase you clearly have difficulty in understanding that statement.

I came onto this forum to seek help - good / bad / indifferent and have certainly received it.

Don't presume however to know whether or not I have the ability to let go of this problem, instead consider 1st to really understand before being understood. Unfortunately though your smart mouth antics and arrogance prevent you from doing this.

There are many factors over time prior to last Sept that led up to the breakup between Molly and I, I have chosen to keep these off this forum and I can see from Molly's posts that she has too.

Yes she is lovely, very lovely indeed, but it takes two to break up, not one. People don't leave perfectly happy, contented relationships for no reason whatsoever.

Anyway, enough said. Molly and I have a much much better chance of becoming a couple again than we did last week and this is great. I do love her and know she loves me, we have got to rebuild and I think we have a good chance to do so now.

I can see from reading Mollys posts that she has a high opinion of you and I'm pleased for her. I don't.

I know you are a bully, a very arrogant one at that, and from reading many of your smart mouthed remarks to many other posters over the months, you seem to place yourself as a self appointed leader on this site but don't like it when somebody stands up to you do you ? Again, a stereotype bully.

It's been a long time coming that you were told just how much of a loudmouth you really are.

I'm glad you are 'tired' of my saga. Don't post on anything I put together again.

[London]

So your tone has changed when somebody stands up to you. A stereotype bully as well then.

I know you are a bully, a very arrogant one at that, and from reading many of your smart mouthed remarks to many other posters over the months, you seem to place yourself as a self appointed leader on this site but don't like it when somebody stands up to you do you ? Again, a stereotype bully.

It's been a long time coming that you were told just how much of a loudmouth you really are.

I'm glad you are 'tired' of my saga. Don't post on anything I put together again.

Look jerk, my stance towards you hasn't changed - and if you think what you are saying here is :standing up" then so be it. I am sure you feel better deep down now that you "came after" someone online and tried to defend yourself. Clap, clap, clap.

Did it make you feel better to call me a loudmouth, yet again? Did it really? Did you get that rush of adrenaline that real men get in real life? Clap, clap, clap.

As to what you "know about me" - well, you do realise that you know nothing. And that holds true for all facets in your life.

So, good riddance to you Murray... although somehow, i suspect that neither this board nor Molly will have heard the last of your dramas.....

[jools]

Well I STILL think that Molly and Murray are one and the same. Dusty attic...woman's curly wig...rocking chair...loud screechy music...ring any bells yet......................NORMAN BATES?
________
Aircraft Company (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Aircraft_Company)

[shadow]

Jools....

Got a little voice whispering in my ears that it might be too. Because her posts are all about Murray feelings, how she feels bad about what she did to Murray.

No mention of the pain SHE is going thru from Murrays affair!! Havnt seen any of the normal stuff that you hear from someone that has been cheated on.

So yes the thought has entered my mind too.

[London]

Jools....

Got a little voice whispering in my ears that it might be too. Because her posts are all about Murray feelings, how she feels bad about what she did to Murray.

No mention of the pain SHE is going thru from Murrays affair!! Havnt seen any of the normal stuff that you hear from someone that has been cheated on.

So yes the thought has entered my mind too.

wrong thread ladies - this entire thead is actually from the loser himself

[jools]

Like the threads...the protagonists are one and the same (or is that ...like the protagonist the threads are one and the same?). So it doesn't matter which one we post on! Like Shadow says, Molly's (beginning and ending consonants the same as Murray) comments are ALL from Murray's perspective. Think about it. If our partners ever posted their experiences the accounts would read like totally different stories. TOTALLY! You would probably never even match the stories to the other partner. Molly's accounts are how Murray THINKS she sees it.
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Murray]

This is fun is'nt it !

To Jools, Shadow and Loudmouth,

Molly and I posted on this forum in order to try and fix our relationship which is in crisis because of my mistake. I’ve compounded this by allowing my insecurities to come through and quiz her too much on something that whilst it really hurts me, was effectively nothing to do with me as I’d moved out. I think this has been well and truly established and jammed down my throat, quite rightly, by one and all.

I can assure you that Molly and I are individuals, we live together in Norfolk, UK and had lived together for 8 yrs prior to my leaving and we’ve been trying to fix it since around Xmas. In fact Molly tried to contact Helen and ask for her em address so she could speak to her one on one but the em was not available. We would be more than happy to provide our contact details if you wish in order to show we are different people.

This weekend, Molly and I had talked at length about how to keep trying to fix it and she asked me to show her how to use the forum as I’d previously said that it had really helped me. Not because I was told what I wanted to hear, quite the opposite, but that it had allowed me to ‘talk’ to people whereas I hadn’t been able to do that before because family have recently passed away, I work away, etc.

I showed her how to log on and set up on Sunday before I left for Korea and we read together quite a lot of the posts I had placed up to Sunday.

Of course, loudmouth would state that this is manipulation. I knew that Molly was likely to get posts / replies from people advising her to leave me for good etc etc which of course is exactly what she has received.

So I chose to manipulate Molly into most likely being told to leave me ? Loudmouth, you’re quite simply a prat.

One of the biggest mistakes leveled at me, again by loudmouth, is posting M’s em’s on this site. I accept that, although I’d previously gone to a councilor for sessions to help and she had asked to have the em’s explained to her so as to better understand the problem I was having.

Now, she is trained in therapy and I’m assuming that most posters on here aren’t. Who’s right / wrong ? Is there a definitive right or wrong ? No, it’s about discussion and opinions which can ultimately help the person/s who’ve come on here seeking it.

So Molly has posted and is now being ridiculed by Loudmouth, which is to be expected, and now Jools. Norman Bates ? Please. But Jools, I guess if you choose to have fun at Molly’s expense and it makes you happy – feel free. It doesn’t need me to tell you how stupid you seem in front of others does it.

Shadow, I think you’re a little misguided. Molly has clearly shown her anger and pain at what I put her through, I think that perhaps you haven’t read her posts that closely.

And Jools, why, if ever, would your ex partners experiences read like totally different stories ? If there are two totally different stories wouldn’t it reflect that perhaps one of them is fooling themselves into believing they are the innocent party ?

You also mention about consonants in both Molly’s and my threads. Are you really Carol Vorderman ?

Finally the quote by loudmouth - 'wrong thread ladies - this entire thread is actually from the loser himself '.

Are you rallying the troops loudmouth ? I’d hazard a guess that you have been left at one time or another by other 'loser’s' who’d found other partners and left you feeling quite screwed up by it.

Does it annoy you that two people on this forum are sharing a problem and clearly trying to fix it ? If you had an ex leave you, or maybe there was more than one, did he ever go onto a forum such as this admitting he was wrong, couldn’t understand why, had personal problems, and try to get back together with you ? No of course they didn’t did they.

Maybe it pains you a little that Molly and I are trying to re-build whereas your ex’s ran and never stopped running.

Just a thought.

Murray

[Helen]

I think it is time to put this particular topic to bed. The fact that fun is being made is perhaps a sign that people think this thread has become a joke. It started off with you, Murray but now Molly is at it. No one really understands what the problem is and seeing it rehashed over and over isn't helping.

Murray - I will say it again. It really is within your power to resolve this. Stop questioning Molly. You tell her the questions help you when, quite clearly, the answers don't. They just add fuel to the fire (a fire that is burning from a hypothetical situation). The reason for your rage didn't even happen. You say you feel second best because *IF* this guy had been what Molly wanted, she would be with him. Er...maybe, maybe not. That is hypothetical - surely you see that? It didn't happen so you can only guess at what Molly would have done. I admit, this is the bit I really don't get. Just be grateful she agreed to take you back and isn't giving you as hard a time about the fact that you left her.

Molly - in giving in to Murray's questioning, you are not helping him. He has told you the questions help him but then he gets angry when you answer them. So clearly, they are not helping him! Do both of you a favour and be the one to break this cycle. One of you has to.

Now I am off to bed!


Helen

[London]

Finally the quote by loudmouth - 'wrong thread ladies - this entire thread is actually from the loser himself '.

Are you rallying the troops loudmouth ? I’d hazard a guess that you have been left at one time or another by other 'loser’s' who’d found other partners and left you feeling quite screwed up by it.

Does it annoy you that two people on this forum are sharing a problem and clearly trying to fix it ? If you had an ex leave you, or maybe there was more than one, did he ever go onto a forum such as this admitting he was wrong, couldn’t understand why, had personal problems, and try to get back together with you ? No of course they didn’t did they.

Maybe it pains you a little that Molly and I are trying to re-build whereas your ex’s ran and never stopped running.




Make up your mind - on the one hand you are so interested in commenting about my relationships and then on the other you state you don't care. How about you leave my relationship out of this. If only because I'm in a great relationship actually - unlike yours and unlike you I don't do things that break my partners trust like you did by posting private emails or constantly harrassing her for hypothetical nonsense. But i digress - this is about you.

Rallying the troops? Have *YOU* not read a single word Helen, Jools, shadow, hoxton, Kate or anyone else have posted - they have all said the same thing to you. Get over it. Either you grow up and accept Molly and all she's said and wrote here and done while you abandoned her (and that includes accepting the fact that she slept with another man in YOUR house and in YOUR bed) or you lose her.

Do i have to repeat that for you - accept the fact that Molly slept with another man in YOUR house and in YOUR bed - or you lose her. Your choice.

Oh and btw, seeing that reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths, let me lay out for you - I had never ridiculed Molly for posting here. You are the only person of ridicule by the entire community here ........

[shadow]

Nope I am not misguided. I just went back and re-read the posts.

The first time I read it, right away I thought man this story is fimilar, can it be two different people posting the very same story. But my gut told me no it was the other half of the one that posted orginally. Not the only one that believed that cause after some prompting she finally admitted it. As I continued reading I even thought that it not the other half but the orginal poster himself. Cause the story was so close together same probs. It entered my head at the beginning, and tho it nagged me that it might be the same person I wasnt 100% sure just a little nagging feeling. So answered to what she asked.

Why did it keep nagging at me??? Cause like I said the post was all about her reaction to what you did with getting involved with another man, what lead up to it, what does she need to do to make you feel better about it, the bed... the emails.... her posts were all about reassuring you, to make you believe..... it was about her affair, her action, things that bothered you. There was NOT another about her feelings, except for not knowing how to make you understand. There was none of the normal things I hear from a women that has been cheated on.

Trust me they was not there, I can see her talking about her fling and what it did and wanting to prove to you that she loved you, but there is still alot of other things missing that she would of shared. So that little nagging voice in me saying who is posting. But also got to thinking that it could be that she is not really posting all that she needs to get out because you are watching the posts and if she brought out "her" pain it would UPSET You! She is hiding her own pain and only worring about your feelings, which is not right and maybe why I am not seeing the things I see in almost every post of a betrayed spouse. I am sorry I am not being mean by saying this, I told you right from the beginning I cant feel sorry for you because I am a betrayed spouse, but boy did I understnad what you was feeling. but you have gave us the impression of being a little self centered, and to me that is all molly is worried about, and not herself. That could be what I need to hush that little voice.

Helen is right this needs post needs to be put to rest..... but I did get a giggle out of Jools post LOL cause the thought did enter my mind. But we keep saying over and over what needs to be done. We cant get any clearer, and now you have to stop asking for advice and doing what has been advised. I keep telling myself that I am going to quit clicking on this post cause it is the same thing over and over but still find myself clicking on it.

Molly is wanting some one on one??? Tell her to look at my profile, my yahoo is on my profile, I will be gladly talk to her privately. And please let her have that privacy. We wont be talking about bad things about you, we will talk about feelings that we both understand. And I would like to see you guys work it out, but until start putting more effort into it the chances in it are looking slim, or molly is going to be miserable for the rest of her life. I do believe that you love her, but it is time to stop saying it and doing everything in your power by showing it.

[Murray]

Helen and Shadow. Thanks, many, many tks. Helen, as usual you are candid and straight to the point. I'm glad and grateful you haven't given up on this help. Believe it or not it really has helped me and I think Molly and I will work this thru.

I know it was my fault, I know that she wouldn't have gone with another guy if I hadn't deserted her, and I know that I put myslef in a situation where she has a comparison to make. I do have an insecurity problem, and I'm trying hard to resolve it.

Shadow - you're post was lovely and I appreciate it veery much. I'm not looking to win friends here, not in the least, but you have taken the time to help again and I'm grateful.

One thing of all the things you said is that Molly almost certainly has some issues that she's bottled up (my way of explaining it) and not saying becuase she doesn't want to upset me. I think you're 100% right about this and have often said to her 'let it out' so we can deal with it. By her own admission she bottles things up until they reach breaking point, perhaps this forum has shown her that by talking a bit more it can certainly help. I really do hope so.

I'll also go on to admit that it is very likely my manner toward her that could be a problem ie she may not think that some areas are approachable with me. This has made me think a bit more about it and something I can discuss with her too in order to help us both.

I don't want to appear like I'm trying to win friends on here becuase as harsh as it sounds I'm not, but that doesn't mean I'm not grateful becuase I am, very much, very much indeed.

I'm just trying to make sense of it all becuase I want the relationship to work again.

I can't say there will be an immediate change in my feelings and my going round and round in circles wondering the same things, I guess thats a consequence of my insecurity but I'm grateful to you both for your help.

Very much indeed.

Best wishes,
Murray (honestly..!)

Tks to you both, very much