hello I'm new

[wysi]

Don't know if this has been raised before but my husband's affair resulted in a baby, now nearly a year old. He visits child regularly which of course means he sees ex. This all makes it extremely difficult for me to move on. Anyone else in this situation who can help? I feel stuck and don't know how to deal with this.

[Kate]

Dear Wysi

This is really tough to face as you have a permanent reminder of what happened and your husband sees the other woman regularly.

There have been other postings but not recenlty
here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=901)

here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=777)

here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1389)

here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1568)


Have you been able to tell your husband how you feel, so he can help you cope with this difficult situation.

I hope others will respond to your post

Best wishes

Kate

[shadow]

Kate,

I so much understand how you feel. Please check this site out. it is a forum on there that deals just with Infidelity where a child is resulted. You will find people there that have decided on contact with child and where some have decided no contact. They are a great bunch of people and you will see alot of what you are feeling on there. and can ask how others deal with it and just vent cause trust me another will say I felt the same way. Please try this site out for the help

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0

What you are going thru is awful and I know the pain mine is still fresh and you need to be with others that are going thru the same boat as you and listen to others that have dealing with it for a while to see what your future might bring.
Hugs!

[shadow]

oh sorry I mean wysi not Kate :-)

[wysi]

Thanks Kate & Shadow. I have looked at the other site but not sure about posting there. It has taken a long time to even think about posting anywhere. But it is good to know there are places to look.

[shadow]

I feel the same way, I was soooo ashamed, my hubsand kept telling me I shouldnt feel that way cause I was not the one that did something wrong. And a few times when I tried to talk to others they just didnt understand and basically hurt my feelings with what they said. when i found the group that deals with infidelty pregnacy/child, at first I just read alot of the threads and was shocked how I felt the same way, and when I first posted it felt good to hear others welcome me and knowing they are always there for me. At first just read alot of the threads, there is others that do have C (contact) and you can see that they too have a hard time and what is going on with them.

This forum I just found the other day, seems kind of slow but going to keep a eye on it.
Is it hard when your H (husband) still has contact with OW (other woman). Is your husband really putting 100% into your marriage to make up for his mistake? Do you guys openly talk about the situation? If it really bothers you why not suggest that you guys pick up OC (other child) from a grandparents place. You have every right to feel the way you do, and the constant C is like pouring salt onto a open wound. We have decided on NC (no contact) in our case.

But first what most of them will ask anywhere ... was he proven by dna that he is legally the father, has CS (child support) and V (visitation) been set up legally and by the courts?

[London]

and the constant C is like pouring salt onto a open wound. We have decided on NC (no contact) in our case.

shadow - i am sorry to read that the two of you have decided on this option. By no contact do you mean no contact with the new child? If so, why are you and the father of the child punishing a baby for something that your H is responsible for? What has he/she done to deserve this? To be honest, I think you are being incredibly selish and self-centered by forcing a no contact situation. The OC has a right to his/her father as much (if not more) as you have the right to be with him and your family. Why can't you compromise and have your H be the one that has sole contact? If you don't want to have contact, that is more than fair and acceptable. But if you are insisiting that neither does your H, then quite frankly that makes you a horrible person. Sorry. I just feel really strongly about this.

[shadow]

Well I think your a horriable person for judging someone without knowing the whole story ..... cause for one thing you are wrong and your wrong for saying what you did. You should never ever judge another until you have walked in their shoes.

She said it bothered her for him to see OW, she never once mentioned that it bothered her to see OC. And yes as I told her the contact with of him seeing the OW will always bring up the hurt and the pain, which only ones that have been there understands. It takes 2 years to start and recover from a affair without a child born. The pain comes back everytime the H sees the mother and of course of the fear that what happened before will happen again.

Did I not say to talk to about picking up the child from a grandparents? Guess that would mean no contact you think? Where did I ever mention one thing about NC between child???

Besides EVEN IF that was our decision, she was asking for someone in the same boat, not judgemental opionions from people that are not there.

Even tho I think it is so cruel that you can be so judgemental I still hope you never do have to find out for yourself..... what it does do to your spouse, the one that was cheated on and the cheater themselves and most of all the children....... Because I DO KNOW

[Kate]

Dear Shadow

I agree that you have had to face a tough decision and Wysi is facing it now too. I think that London is concerned for the other child, which hasn't asked to be brought into the world in these circumstances. There is no solution which is not painful and difficult for someone.

Each couple must decide for themselves how to handle it, which you and your husband have done. I don't know your particular arrangments with your husband, but your situation seems to have parallels with adoption where parents allow someone else to bring up their child. Later in life when the other woman doesn't have to be involved would you be happy for your husband to meet his child? Perhaps you haven't explored this possibility yet.

I wish you and your husbadn allt he best for the future.

Kate

[London]

shadow - i agree with you on not judging you or anybody else without the complete story - that is why my words were "By no contact do you mean no contact with the new child? If so...." I predicated my judgement with a HUGE "if" and a question to clarify the actual context - and that context is contact between the father and the NC.

I guess you must have read past that becuase of my harsh words following it and I even said, IF that was your decision, THEN I would classify you as a horrible person. I am not trying to judge you as a person in a standalone situation - it has to do with the context I described....

Please don't you judge and react harshly if you don't understand what was actually written.

I understand this is a difficult situation and we all make mistakes in our lives - but it is how we react and deal with those mistakes (and of those we are involved with) that really makes us.

[shadow]

What you should of done london..... was gotten the facts first before you judge.

If you would of just asked ...."By no contact do you mean no contact with the new child?"..... and then dropped it at that until you got my response. That would of been the right thing to do, it shows you are trying to get all the facts before you make your judgement. But you didnt you asked and judge right away. When the reply came that child was never mentioned we was talking about OW. And then you would of probably replied oh ok I was just to be cleared. (lets just assuming you would say that)

But lets say for the agurement that I said no we do not have contact with child, even if you thought that was horriable then you should of said "you personally didnt agree with that and what lead us to that decision, who choice was that, I would like to know your story cause I sure dont understand"

The problem with the world is to many people do not get the facts and just jump to say what their opionions are, and even if they dont agree they should learn to get it all. No one is perfect and until they are they should consider their words. And people should not just give them their opionions or advice unless they have been there and gone thru what the one asking for help or is a trained professional. Cause there was alot of things in my past that I use to say heck no I would never do this and that but things happen and times change to make your views change.

This is a help page not my opionion page. People respond more to kindess and hey I do not agree let me tell me what my views on are (even tho I have never been thru it) and let the other see your side and listen to what they say, if they make a point say well that I can understand and you will find the things you say might just sink in and make the others think, cause sometimes someone well say I didnt think of that and yes that sounds right thanks for the help. If they didnt they could of said well try to understand this. Just like on your thread of your friend having a affair for 5 years, I totally disagree on that but I would of not jumped on you I would just of said here is my pain, this is the nightmare I went thru, please pass it on so your friend can take into consideration, and hope it makes her decision something to live with. Not just call them horriable!!

You was already was giving your opionion of me without first finding out the facts, on a IF question! The question should of been asked YOUR opionion should of not been said until you know the whole story! And with questions and time you would of found out the type of person I was. Get facts, if your really serious about standing up for your opionion do the reserch read on the sites how to survive a affair or a night stand (which tho it still hurts as bad and as just wrong to do, I am glad that my husband was just a one night thing and not humilate me even more by continueing it for months and years)

That is why people ask for help from people that are or have gone thru the same thing they are cause they are the only ones that understand

Did I judge you on your harsh words??? Yes I did! Cause you gave me your opionion without first find out on a IF!!!! they hurt me me cause for you did not first find out for sure the answers, you did not give me time to tell my story or to find out how I feel about things. You said IF I was the one having probs then I was the selfish one, I was horriable. We have done our research (with others that have been thru it or professionals) we have found about affairs and surviing them, about what decsion we should make with what we can live, contact with child only, contact with child and other women, no conact of mother, no contact of either, and yes we even found children who are now adults that were results of affairs, the ones that had contact with fathers and the ones that didnt.

I am the one that swolled my pride and was no way the selfish one, I let my hubby make his own decsion and then we found a way to make us both happy with the decision, even the marriage counslor told my hubby that he should feel lucky that he had such a wife as I, and my hubby does know that I have gone over and beyond what he deserves, and yes he caused me pain but he also lives with the guilt and pain for bring this onto our marriage.

I shouldnt even be defending myself but your words hurt on a IF, and I do feel you should of kept your opionion until you found out more, I can tell Kate dont know but she is addressing it the way it should, she is trying to find out more, she might feel the same way, but she is trying to see others veiw.

LOL all this over a IF question and a statement made when you did even not know, and how it came out about the child I do not know since we was talking about seeing the OW.

Guess what I want the lesson here to be learned is that get the FACTS AND SAVE THE OPIONIONS UNTIL AFTER YOU GET THE ANSWERS, and keep in my mind words hurt just as much as a fist, and unless you have been there dont give your opionion, do like kate, send them to the post on there that have dealt with it. You want to learn about what they are going thru so you can help others, ask nicely and keep a open mind, because how you feel is not the only thing, some day some body might say something and you will say hmmm I didnt think of that I can understand, just like they might when you say something. Remember this is a help page not a London opionion page.

[Helen]

I am uncomfortable when people argue on the site. Especially when it isn't clear what the argument is about. Could you both just agree to drop it and get back to the subject at hand?


Helen

[London]

sorry shadow - but this is actually an opinion site where people TRY to help. If you only want "help" without people's opinion then you need to go see a professional where you can supply all the details in a conversation and not deal with slow postings waiting for a back-and-forth. I stick by my original and subsequent comments.

[Kate]

Ok Helen is right.

You too have both used some strong words. I really don't think London intended any harm - he was perhaps more direct than you wanted Shadow.

London if you go and look back at your words early this morning they could be taken as judgemental. It's ok to express your opinion, but some people who come here are hurting and sensitive.
Please can you two put this behind you and try and move on to a more supportive mode of communication.

Kate

[shadow]

kate, yep got the name right on that one this time :-)

Yes decision are very hard to make in this case, we had alot to learn and I really did alot of reading and asking, in the past I always said I would not ever forgive if he commiteed adultry, I take my marriage vows very seriously. I truely believe that if there is something wrong in the marriage and they should at least try to resolves all that can be done and if no doubt it all has been tried then they should leave the spouse before getting involved. I made that promise to my hubby many many years ago, that tho I loved him now I dont know what the future brings but I can promise you that if I did found that I have grown attached to someone else I would leave the marriage before I got in involved with me. It is to me the right thing to do.

It is a long story and in some way I can understand what brought my husband to have a one night stand, it still is no excuse, there is none for a affair, but I knew my husband, he is a very loving man and is not the type to cheat, we are best friends and do have a wonderful marriage. I am still trying to deal with that the one night stand had nothing to do with me or our marriage, that is hard....

my husband did tell me about it right away, and right away I wanted him out, but after really looking at the whole picture, and the years we have had together and the type of man my husband is I decided to forgive him. One decision I have never regretted, I have basically forgiven him but the forgetting is hard. Even tho I am in pain, it still tears my heart out seeing how much pain and guilt he is feeling too. But he does put his feelings aside and try to help me when I have "trigger" moments, and he really did alot of reading from women that was cheated on so he knew what kind of pain we are going thru and that something I did or felt was basically normal, like I did with trying to understand his point and how he feels.

We have learned that there should be no contact with OW while their is a pregnacy until after the child is born and proven that they are the father. But we was lucky, we did not know about the pregnacy and that their might be a child born until after the baby was born and we got served papers that my hubsand might be one of the possiable fathers listed. So we had some time to work on our marriage before we had to add this to it.

Once we knew we had to really and try to decide what was best, for every one. So we really dug into it so we would hope that we would make the right decision for everyone, our marriage, the OC and my kids (which as stated before which is wrong OC does not come before my children, it should be the same all the way around, but no you did say that)

We did alot of research for ALL types of decision.

Contact with OC and OW.......... some cases tho sadly not to many, OW gets along with family and things are going as best as they can under the circumstances. Sadly to many times there is alot of battling. OW is really out there making it more miserable. From talking to some OW they feel abandon and want the father, and they dont like the idea of wife getting to know and love the child. Which yes the father was married and he was just as much as fault the OW knew he was married and dont really have alot of rights in my opionion. I have heard of some many horror stories and fights and my heart goes out those children. My opionion on it, great if it works out, but dont want the child go thru a mess if it dont, even tho I know I wont be wont be the wont starting the mess. I am not ready for the contact of the mother just yet, my pain is still very fresh, right at this time I am not ready, told hubby that if he decides to be in child life I will show it love but I wasnt ready for contact with mother not at this time. And would it be ok if we picked up at her folks house, the child was still a very young baby and wouldnt notice and it would give me a little more time before there was a need to have contact with mother.

Contact with Child but not with mother..... this stops the child from seeing the fights and just hopefully mother or father are saying nothing bad about each other. Wife has easier time yes, but also it does benefit for OW, anger is not getting in the way, and to some they feel guilty and dont want to have to face the other. It does seem to be a little more peaceful and overall see that it has the best result. Kind of like the saying that you shouldnt stay together for the children sake cause most of the time children would rather their parents seperate then to get torn into from all the fights :-( My opionion is I think it was best for us but not the way hubby wanted to decide they would have to find others ways to make us both happy.

Wife and Husband gets full custody of OW child. These seem to be happiest stories. But not to many of them, not because of the wife, alot of wife are ready to take the child and raise it on her.... but OW says no.... but cant blame them, your asking someone to give up something they carried for 9 months. But some have and the child is well adjusted and they are a happy family. OW that have gave up custody... most are happy that they have given their a child a happy home and know their child is in good hands. My opionion.. I stand up and applaude the wife who can stand up and raise her hubby child and OW and love it as her own. Could I do it? Alot of soul searching ...yes I think I can.

No Contact of others.... alot of them have decided this too. Sometimes it just the husband that has decided on this. Feels it is best interest of them and the child. Yes they still have to pay child support. Some agree that is best Some dont. but have to look at all sides and what works for the others might not work for them. Do I think it is bad of the father, no, cause if you look at this way women number one reason giving a child up for adoption for what they consider is best for the child, and they should not be judge because if you do alot of reserch you will find there is alot more women out there that DO NOT want their children to contact with the father (married at one time or not) then there is men who says they dont want contact. Some cases it is OW that wants no contact at all. If they both agree then it is fine for them, if it is OW that dont and fathers do they take it to court and get their vistitation, just like divorces. My opionion on this.... some part of me says yes some part of me says no. I told my husband if he made this decision to make sure he was making it for himself, not to make it because he was afraid I would leave him, because I didnt want him years down the road to blame me for him not having a realationship, Cause if wanted a realationship I was there and would give my 100% if he didnt I would stand behind him.

Children who grew up With Contact..... some say there was alot of stress, and felt is was there fault. Some say that it worked out great, but as they grew up and understood about things like that even tho step mom was loving and great, father was great and mother was too, they still had a little seed of guilt knowing how much pain the way the was concieved probably have brought. My opionion I feel sorry for the ones that had to go thru so much and happy for the ones that it was great but wished I could take that seed away. Even not telling them they will eventually figure it out just by dates.

Children growing up with no conact....some kids were upset.... that the father did not take custody of them and left him with their mother. But your going to find that even with divorced parents and even if the father has vistitation rights. And alot of good ones out there too...... I just read a thread that a wife posted. they had decided on no contact and now the child was a adult. and wanted to meet. The child was did ask if he was the result of a affair and they answered and he looked at the wife and said i am getting married next month I understand and i am sorry the pain my birth had to cause you.... blah blah but it turned out to be a wonderful story.

Now we had stories from all ways and it was left to my husband, and did he make the right decision, only time will tell, we just pray we are making the right one. For us the no contact with mother is what is best for us. But still we have NOT seen the child, we just found out that he was the father and just a couple of weeks ago got the CS payments worked out 2 weeks ago. vistitation I guess is seperate court issue and we need to file for that. And from what i hear that it will be some time before we can get in front of the judge. And until then we dont even know where the child and mother are at. For she still has not contacted us and until we go to court they will not tell us.

And now we have something new to consider.... her attorney contacted ours at the end of last week. The mother was also in a realationship when the one night stand happen, which we did know (we did not hardly know either of them). I knew he broke up with her right away. I didnt know they was back together, he did get back together with her and forgave her and was hoping the child was his since they was very serious and was hoping against the odd it was his child since it was just a one time thing with my husband. he has been there thru out the pregnacy and since the child was born. He was in love with the child before he knew for sure it wasnt his. They are talking about getting married this summer from what the attorney is saying would my husband consider signing away his rights and letting the boyfriend adopt him. I do feel that my husband is leaning toward that cause he asked me if I thought it would be bad if he did, no I didnt think so. To him he said it might be best, the was a father figure there that has loved her before she was born and still loving her after he knew the child was born. But I told him not to get set on a decision just yet. search his soul, and to remember I will always stand behind him, they wont get married till the summer so he didnt have to make a decision yet.

[shadow]

I am always willing to let by gones be gones but please remember I wasnt asking for help I was just trying to help someone that did ask if anyone in same boat, and gave a suggestion since it bothered her to talk to hubby about maybe picking child up from grandparent.


And just please ask ??

[shadow]

Kate and Helen I am sorry about the fight I really hate to fight, but I cant just stand by and let someone say things about me either. I justed wanted to london to realize that he could of just asked me first and dropped it not adding what a bad person I was in his opionion until he knew what my answer would be and then at least listen to me if I did say that there was no contact, which I didnt, I said that maybe no contact with mother would be the best for now. Which is what we had decided on for now (at least until the attorney called the other day with a new proposal) and to right away call me names cause it was my fault if it was..... that was wrong, even if that he's opionion, cause he first should of asked, I know sometimes when people post they are emotionally and it does not come out right and that is why you ask ?? to clear it. To me it wasnt right and very unfair.


To you guys I am sorry, to london yes I could say that if he said to me cause he jumped on me first, and I just wanted to point out that was not fair.

But I wont agrue anymore, I would just like to ask if London will show me the same respect and please dont give me his opionion about my life unless I come right out and ask for advice.

[London]

shadow - i *did* ask and i offered my opinion with the caveat of the IF..... I guess I was just responding to your post and your previous post in one. Thank you for subsequently offering your story and possible outcomes. My concern in my post was clearly for the "other" child. As far as not offering an opinion... well, if you post something then you will get a response. That's what these forums are about.

[Kate]

Well now you have both justified yourselves, perhaps we can get back to supporting Wysi!

Kate

[wysi]

The last thing I wanted was to inadvertantly start an argument between people here.

My situation is that H & I together for 18 years - have 2 C together plus 1 from my previous marriage. A went on for about 1 yr - during which time I was v depressed for various reasons. I don't want to meet OC - to be honest I think the best thing for all is for OW to find her own partner & build a family from there - as H & I did with my own first child.
However I have accepted that he doesn't want to just disappear from OC's life. He still has difficultly talking to me abt it - we tried counselling but that didn't really help. Bottom line is that I don't feel secure, I don't trust him (not that I think he would have another A - just that I don't have that unconditional belief in him anymore.) To be honest if it wasn't for the kids I would separate.

The aftermath of this is going on for so long - I am mentally & emotionally drained and my health (previously v g) is suffering. But I can't face the idea of causing so much pain to my C that separation would involve.

[jools]

Hi Wysi
I really feel for you and the situation that you find yourself in. In many ways this is far worse than the H just having an affair because it will always be so much more than just a bad memory to get over. It's a no win situation for you. I think that London's take of the situation (i.e. an inability to accept contact with the other child makes you a horrible person) is oversimplisticly altruistic. As a woman you not only feel protective as a wife but also as a mother. You want to protect the family unit for your own children; and while you'd wish no harm on the other child you are programmed to protect your own, first and foremost.

I know i'd be thinking of the devastation that my daughters would feel if they knew that their father had produced children elsewhere. And please don't try to say that my daughters would want to meet their half brother/sister. Maybe many years down the line...but I can assure you that their anger would far outstrip mine (believe me...I know them!). I would, quite honestly, have no desire to recognise the other child, knowing the devastation and emotional damage that the knowledge would cause my own daughters. That doesn't make me horrible...just horribly protective. I would be SO angry with my H for putting us in that situation that it might well spell the end of the marriage anyway (but I don't know, because I haven't walked that path so I can't judge). How the hell do you find a workable situation in all of this? The child would be a constant reminder of the H's infidelity. I have no answers or advice. I only want to say that I understand your inability to accept the child. You'd have to be some sort of bloody saint to do that. Why should you? It's not a problem of your making...although it has become your problem. Like I said...a no win situation - for anyone.
________
G (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Subaru_G)

[shadow]

Your right jools it really is a no win situtation for anyone. But trying to find what is going to be acceptable and what you can live with, and every one takes different roads and one will work for one but not the other. Finding that road is soooo hard and gives you alot of grey hairs and wrinkles.

Wysi, are you still suffering from depression? Would be a shocker if you said no cause it is normal after a affair to do, alot of drs. will recommend that women going on to a deression med for a while to help them thru this. Your post sound soooo sad and correct me I am wrong but you havnt forgave him yet and this mess it eating you up and you cant seem to let it go?? Like you said it is effecting your health....it will cause you are going thru many ranges of emotions.... shock, rage, hurt, devastation, disillusionment, and intense sadness, you may have trouble sleeping and eating, if your emotional then you will cry alot. Some want to be left alone others get upset when the spouse is not around. These feeling will be around, guess they will get fewer and fewer apart but we will still have trigger moments that will set us again,

Trust is really hard. I just hate myself for not trusting my husband 100%, even tho is has done and is still doing everything to show me how sorry he is, it is still not that blind trust it was before. I have heard that the trust will never be the same as before but it will get to a new kind of trust down the road. Yes are "alerts" will always be on now.

It is not to late for you guys to try and rebuild your marriage. Besides just for the kids do you really want to make the marriage work??? That means the both of you, it is a 2 way street and you both need to be willing to put the work into it. Will your marriage be the same??? No hon it will not. But it can be good again, and in I have found in some ways there is things I like alot better since the affair. You might be telling yourself it wont ever improve but it will, but it will take a long time and it will have ups and downs but if you both are aware of it and willing to work at it...

Lets start with him. Your husband needs to realize that he needs to say sorry alot and that it wont happen again. He really needs to work to gain your trust, yes he will have to work hard at that but then he did put himself into that position. My husband has done alot of little things for me, just simple things but they mean alot, and you too will need to something little here and there and respond to his. We every day since the dreaded day we say one nice thing to each other, a complianment, why i feel in love with you... anything

You guys need to take some time to yourself, doing things you like and just having a quiet moment to bond.... take walks, hold hands. You guys need to put your marrage first and front. You both need to make sure that you and him become first in everything.

And last communcation, is really the most imporant thing!!! He dosnt like to talk about it, sadly that is normal. My husband says he hate to cause he hates to admit what he did was so wrong and he just wants to forget about it, he hates to see the pain on my face when we do. But he really needs to do it, it is soooo important and for the sake of the marriage he needs to put his want away and think about what is best. At first your going to want to know everything, and the why, yes at first you will run of crying, but tho it hurts still that will get easier. He needs to realize that he needs to be very open and very honest about everything, and do not tell a white lie about anything cause right now a little white lie even if not about the affair is going to get your senses up. He needs to be more atune into your feelings, my husband will pick up mine right away. he will ask me what is wrong and I will usually say nothing because I dont want be harping about it all the time and making him more guilty but he will wrap his around me and say tell me please and I break down. He listens and yes he will cry while I cry, one of the things that I like about our marriage now is that he is more in tune and for someone that never hardly cried is more open about his feelings. It came slowly but it did.

But you got to remember not to nag him all the time too, the talks will get less and less and eventually they will turn to other stuff, and do talk about alot of things, I ask about my hubby day every day, you both really need to listen to each and make sure they know that you are listening no matter what the conversation is. Also you both need to be honest about your feelings.

He needs to take in to consideration how you are feeling, and you need to so the same. Dont put request on him that you know is not morally right, the same with him, he needs you to feel comfortable with decsion and if not to find some happy medium.

I can not stress enough about open honest communications, it is the goal, and the only way to make it work. Sweeping the emotions under the rug will only bring years of stress and resement. It is harder for men to open up and you may need to prompt him, you need to let him know that it is important, and things will get better if he just try to understand and try help the marriage. And let him know that you are trying to understand how he feels and mean it.

Counsiling dont work for everyone, but do alot of reading and try and find what way works for you.

The way you wished would happen with OC and OW moving on ... oh man that is all of our betrayed spouses dream!! But it not the way ball bounces... :-( we are one of the few that gets to consider that option. You not wanting to see the child might be putting a wall between you and your husband. And the steps to forgiving your husband might make you decide later on to try and have some sort of contact with your Husband other child since you know your husband wants to be in it. But it sounds like you guys need to work on your marriage first and then bring in the child.

Yes I will be totally honest, I may have calmly told my husband that I will forget my pride and hurt and except the child if he decided on that. But yes there has been moments where I am full of hate and do not want nothing to do with it. I tell myself why do I always have to to be the one to feelings aside and it is not right. The child will bring alot of bad memories to me, and then I feel quilty cause the child did not ask to born this way. The roller coster ride of emotions does wear you at and want you to give up. And you did not ask for none of this either.

Yes I get mad at my hubby he did take his part in it but so did she, she could of said no! She was just a selfish for her part of it and did not take into consideration my kids or me and my kids are the only one I have to worry about. Some days those emotions ate at me, and I hated her for the person she made me into by her actions. But these are all naturals feelings. And why tho I still have moments of anger at hubby they are not nothing like toward the other women. Alot of that has to do is that my husband has asked for my forgivness, and the OW has never asked or said she was sorry.

I decided to forgive my husband and that meant I had to put my feelings aside and if he wanted contact then I would find it in my heart to be the best step mom, yes I even giggled at myself and said I can teach the child about morals, since the mother didnt have none lol.... those trigger moments. :-) I have already warned him that the first couple of times I might the next day in bed either crying my eyes out or be the biggest grump but give me time to wear off the shock and find my way around my heart.

I know my post is long but got all the important things that you need to consider out of the way and now we can just talk. Be honest with what your feeling, cause I will never look at you bad, because at time I have felt that way too. and still have trigger moments for them to come back I wont try and change your mind about how you feel or what you should do cause we each need to do things out own way. Crying, venting anger, and hopeleness is all normal, and part of healing. and those that have been there will see it and understand and I will be here no matter what you need.

Hugs

[wysi]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I have been reading some of the other threads on here and it has helped me to clarify some of the things I feel about my situation.

I can't forgive H at the moment and the biggest barrier to this is that he hasn't asked me to. He doesn't truly feel remorse, and I need this so that I can begin to trust him emotionally again.

A couple of weeks ago I sent him a letter by email - something very calm that I had spent a long time thinking about, telling him clearly what I felt the main issues were and asking him to reply with his own feelings and thoughts, and how important it was to me that he replied. He let me know that he had got this - and sounded a bit shaken. I said I didn't expect him to reply right away. Well - he hasn't replied (I know he has had time) and when I gently reminded him he got defensive. In a lot of ways I think this sums up what has been happening with us over the past 15 months.

Do I want to save my marriage? Only if I can see in him the things I have seen in the past, not this person I live with now. BTW - superficially it appears to people that we are making it work - we are doing things together and don't row, we have a good sex life (though I have to fight v hard with myself to keep thoughts of him with OW out of my head here). But to be honest if we didn't have children I think I would be better off w/o him.

[London]

But to be honest if we didn't have children I think I would be better off w/o him. those my dear are very telling words....... best of luck to you no matter how you see fit to move forward...

[shadow]

Any counslor or minister will tell you that the only way it is going to work is he askes for forgiveness. You may tell him that you have but true forgiveness does not come until the other ask to be forgiven. Without be asked to be forgiven the wound in your heart is only going to scab over and with time it will just continue to harden. If he ask then only can then can your heart really heal.

Lets get the bad part done with first... does he love you? Is he only staying in this marriage because of the kids??? If you say yes, do you know this for sure or just think it because he has never asked you to forgive him?

Some men just cannot find it in them to express themselves. Is one of them kind that just thinks that you know without him having to say it?? But he is going to need a realize that he is going to have to put his feelings on the back burner and ask you for forgiviness, your needs has to come first right now (and please remember that you cant abuse that either) If I sent you some sites and you emailed him the links do you think he would read them?

The email I think was a good idea, you said that at first it shook him a little. even tho in no way should you be the one telling him that he needs to ask you to forgive him, he should be doing that on his own. But you said it has been at least year (from the age of child), he might of thought that since it has been this long that their is not reason to bring it up again. And maybe your emailed made him think. My husband does NOT like to talk about it, he hates seeing the pain in my face, he hates admiting that he alone caused all of this, and it makes him feel low and worthless, he wants nothing more then to sweep it under the rug to forget that it has ever happened and go on with life. But he knows that I need to sometime, and he will prompt when he feels a difference in me. Maybe after all this time your husband dosnt want to remember the pain. And yes the pain and guilt could of changed him too like it has you. Maybe a few prompts from you calmly will slowly get him to open up. Let him know that you will calmly talk to him about it. My gosh yes you will want to scream and call him names (pain talking) but try and keep it calm and let him know your feelings. And stress you guys need COMMUNICATION!

I understand about the OW image pop into your head during sex, I have been told that it does get better. Some one suggested to me the other day what she does when it happens is ask her hubby to talk to her during sex, saying I love you etc..... and the sound of his voice drowns out the image.

The big question for you is would you feel different about wanting to stay with him if he did ask you to forgive him. Could it be that you feel that way just because he didnt ask??

And continue reading the links and everything , they do help and talking out your feelings will too. Be honest with your self and some how you will find the answers

Hugs

[Kate]

Shadow, thank you for your openness and honesty.

I agree that forgiveness is important, but it can be given even when it hasn't been asked for. When someone has hurt us and they ask for forgiveness then the healing is easier, but it is possible to choose to forgive someone who doesn't ask.

Sometimes that choosing to forgive can itself start the healing process. Forgiving first is part of loving unconditionally. Choosing to forgive doesn't just benefit the person who has hurt us, it actually helps us and keeps us from getting bitter.

Forgiving isn't about saying, Hey what you did doesn't matter, it's saying yes you hurt me but I'm not going to hold it against you and take revenge at any opportunity.

Wysi, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that forgiving is easy. It's not. There are some occasions in my life when it has been a real struggle and has taken time, but I know it has been important both for my own health and for the continuing of the relationship.

If your husband is not willing to acknowledge the hurt and damage he has caused it will be difficult to trust (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/relbasictopic/trust/) him again, but the forgiveness can come first. However I expect that he may not be able to express what he is going through at the moment, which may be why he has not replied to your email. Some people need time to process what has been going on and what they want to say. As Shadow has said keep gently encouraging him to talk, but don't judge his silence as proving his lack of love for you.

I hope that your husband can find the courage and the words to reply to you.

Kate

[wysi]

Hello again & tx to everyone who has taken time to reply here. As you can tell I am still hurting dreadfully - and yes, I am still depressed and finding it difficult to concentrate on other things. It is helping to express myself here.

Kate - you said "I agree that forgiveness is important, but it can be given even when it hasn't been asked for. When someone has hurt us and they ask for forgiveness then the healing is easier, but it is possible to choose to forgive someone who doesn't ask". I have been thinking abt this but I am not some sort of god-like figure (I am not religious at all actually) and I don't think I have it in me to forgive H if he doesn't think it is important. But I will continue to think about this.

Shadow "And yes the pain and guilt could of changed him too like it has you. Maybe a few prompts from you calmly will slowly get him to open up. Let him know that you will calmly talk to him about it. My gosh yes you will want to scream and call him names (pain talking) but try and keep it calm and let him know your feelings. And stress you guys need COMMUNICATION!". I desparately want to communicate with him. That is why I wrote the letter - thinking it might be easier for him to think abt it in his own time and be sure what he said wasn't just a reaction. In some ways I think he would prefer me to shout & scream - then he would be justified in reacting badly. But I am not doing this.

Jools "I know i'd be thinking of the devastation that my daughters would feel if they knew that their father had produced children elsewhere. And please don't try to say that my daughters would want to meet their half brother/sister. Maybe many years down the line...but I can assure you that their anger would far outstrip mine (believe me...I know them!)". 2 of my daughters feel like this - abt not wanting to meet. the other has expressed an interest in meeting C but not OW. This is hard. But as you can imagine it is so difficult for us to talk abt this as a family - in fact we have only once done this, when we sat down to tell our girls abt the affair & the pregnancy. I saw a txt OW had sent H saying she would bring C to meet her "sister". Sister! Not how I think of C.

London - I know it is telling that I said if it wasn't for the kids I would be better off w/o him. But I want the person he was to be back! I didn't throw him out at first becos I believed that the strong relationship we had for most of the 18 years we have been together was recoverable - could even be better. I just can't settle for it being worse.

Sorry everyone - I didn't mean to write so much. H is away on a course this w/e and I guess I have had too much time on my hands. It is 16 months since he told me and C's first b'day nxt wk. He is going to her party! This I can't understand - what do all her family & friends think abt him!

Thanks again.

[hoxton]

WYSI
I totally agree with what jools has said,
I have not been in that situation and I would not know how to even begin to get my head round that.
It's easy for people to judge but me personaly I dont think I could play happy familys with OC I know that maybe unfair on the child as it did not ask to be born but the pain would be to much.
You have to do what is right by you and your own children,
And if that means no contact then I for one would not think you was a horrible person.
take care
Amanda x

[shadow]

you would be surprised how many people do agree with jools, alot of people have decided on both having no contact. And my children no matter what are going to come first and on what I feel how and when will be the best for them. I still dont know How I was going to react if my H decided on contact with OC. Truth be told I am thrilled to death with the new option that came up for us about TPR..... I have not let husband on to that feeling cause I want all the decision to be made by him and not influced by me.... in my gut I think he is going to choose the TPR.... but if not then I will just have to find a way to take one hurtle at a time.

Wysi, I really do understand what you mean about forgiviness. I am not a religious person myself, I do believe in what is right and wrong and even moral. And yes you are human, there is some things in life that you can forgive others without being asked. But what your husband did was the worst thing a person can do to a loved one.

Could of I have forgiven him without be asked to forgive him? Maybe a part of me could have, but there would still been a hole in my heart that would of never gone away, and that hole I think would of stopped us from completely healing. My H did say sorry right away in the same sentence when you told me what happened. It did not mean squat to me because I was shocked and hurt and didnt trust that he meant it. 2 months went by and I was trying to forgive him, I was picking up on little things he was doing but we wasnt talking about what had happened and something was missing. Then one night he did get into a deep conversation and he said he was sorry again and would I ever be able to forgive him? Right away I noticed something different in my heart, and in my opionion it saved our marriage. And I think it helped my husband too, it seemed to remove something that was standing between us.

We did go to see a minister a couple of times when we first found out, not to many times but we did. It was 6 months into our recovery that I remembered the story that he told us about our hearts and having to ask for forgivness and saying the words will you forgive me, and it hit me that was sooo true.

I dont know your husband, so kind of poking out several different options for why he has not asked for it yet for you to think on and maybe one will give you a answer. Just trying to figure out with you why he hasnt asked. If I had my way I would drive over there and knock on his head and say "helloooooo, wake up in there man!!!" LOL "Do what is right, ask her to forgive you, dont make her ask or beg you for the words cause if she has to do that they still wont mean as much to her!!" "Step up and do it so she knows you mean it and her heart can heal!!!"

I really think he has just swept it under the rug and dont want to bring it all out again, figuring he went this long without saying it why bring it all up again. He just dont realize that by doing that it is just building up more and more. Somehow we just need to get him to realize that. Letting him know how you feel is good, and yes you are probably right he could be wanting you to scream and shout cause then he can justify his feelings and put the blame on you instead of standing up and taken into account his own part in it, that helps him with his own pain.

I would still leave a few more hints and let him think, and maybe do a little things here and there that shows you love him and your ready for the time to heal. Dont ask him to ask you cause then it wont mean anything. But he might slowly start to open up and then maybe you will hear the words you need to hear.

Dont worry about your long post ..... let it all out..... it does help. And if you want ever need to do some one on one just let me know

Hugs

[wysi]

hello again. H still hasn't replied to my email. I am dreading the next few days as it is C's 1st b'day Friday - he will be there on Sat for party & will I know get the full guilt treatment from OW. Because of the stress I am ill again & low energy - have now got (another) tooth falling apart. I am feeling old & pathetic which is not how I want to feel - feeling despairing & low. BTW one thing which complicates all this is that I am older than him to begin with so OW almost half my age.

Thanks to people who have made suggestions - abt sending links for him to look at - I don't think he will as he has only read what I wrote to him once! If he sent me something he had thought abt that was constructive I would know it by heart.

Just needing something right now to improve my self-esteem.

[Kate]

Dear Wysi

You are beimg very big hearted accepting him and the mess he has made of all your lives.

At the moment you must be feeling very insecure and hurt. Is there something constructive and positive you can do on Saturday while he is out? I would try and stay calm and weather through the next few days.

When he comes back from his child's birthday party, you might be able to open up a conversation around how he felt being there. As a dad he can't help feeling love and protective of his child even in the circumstances. However it might enable you to start a conversation where you can gently share the painful feelings you have when he goes there. Perhaps you could tell him what practical and specific things would help you to cope with this situation. How could he reassure you that he loves you? It's about not putting him on the defensive, but making clear that you need his help with coping with this stiuation.

Why not have a look at some of the articles on communicaiton here, to help you identify what partiuclar ways of behaving would help you to work through this constructively with him.

All the best

Kate

[Dede79]

i do know this situation. i had a baby with a married man. He had been married about 4 years when this happened. i thought after i choose to keep my baby and move on he would never have anything to do with me. Unfortunetly he always seems to use the children to get back in the house even though he is still married to her. we now have a totally of two children togeather. she knows about them but has never faced me. when my oldest would visit his dad at thier house (we live 15 min drive apart) she would see it is my number and not pick up the phone if i called to talk to my son. i found out from my son when he was 5 that she was mistreating him when his dad was not looking, it ended his visits with his dad. he tells her that he comes and picks him up or meets me somewhere to see him, but that is not the truth. that is how we now have another child togeather. he said that his marriage is over and that she is getting ready to leave, but i see no evidence of that. he basically now has two families and every time i try to move on with my own life he sucks me back in and scares off any potential boyfriend of mine. i have now been apart of his life in a romantic way for almost 7 years out of his 11 year mariage. i have to say i dont know how she does it or why? all thier friends know he cheated since my oldest used to hang out on the weekends over there and they took him to church and functions along with thier two older children. In any case, i could never do it, i would have left him years ago. when two people have a child togeather that is another bond that you can't break, there are feelings there that are hard to let go of. but i do know i would reather be single and rais my children, then to be married to a man who has children with another women. what message would i be showing my children, i know i am at fault but i don't have to deal with him on a daily basis. i think that if he is going over there with out you to spend time with teh child then you shoudl pay attention. take it from someone that knows.

[callow]

Dede

Why do you spend so much time worrying about what his wife is thinking and why she stays with him. You say you don't want anything to do with him. However I think that is not the case. You want him to be with you. You have had two children together. You really want him to leave her and be with your family.

You have chosen this life (you knew he was married), the man chose it as well. The only one who didn't have any choice was his wife. She is trying to do the best with a terrible situation brought about by your and her husband's selfishness.

I feel very sorry for his wife. If you don't want to have anything to do with him then don't.