She is hard work any ideas please?

[jamesm1234]

Hi all,

I have not posted for a while (since my marriage broke down) formally seperated now for 8 months and getting over it.

But hey I have sort of met someone else but I am finding it very difficult to understand her.

bear with me but I play loads of tennis for several teams and I played one lady that plays at a very high level (I can still win but only just). Anyway after speaking to her after a match I asked her out and she agreed. We had a nice lunch, we have since played together and we are now going to have dinner this weekend.

Now all sound well but I just cannot read whther she is interested in more than friendship...I have even asked her on an email if she was interested in a relationship or not and she says she does not know.

Herr friend says she is very shy and does not think men are interested in her, well believe me she is very, very good looking and super fit. However she is a single ladt that has moved away from her roots gotten a well paid job and bought her own flat, she has loads of male and female friends that are all sports mad. EVERY day she does Tennis, runs marathons, cycles, works-out, scuba dives and ski's, she basically fills her day with activities and when I asked her if she ever just chills out in fron of the TV she says no I get too bored and go off and exercise!. I was sort of thinking no wonder she is single she does not seem to have time to fit in anyone else in her life and maybe blokes 'give up' trying to get close.

When I am talking to her about squash she is very comfortable and confident but as soon as I mention anything remotley personal or say OK when are we going to do dinner she 'blushes' and seems to clam up a bit. I also make the odd (trying to be funny comment) when sending an email and even commenting on how attractive I find her (without being smutty) but I get no indication back other than she keeps agreeing to go out???

This is not the sort of girl I have ever come across before (but then again I was married for 18 years), but how will I know whether she is interested in a little more than friendship (I am quite naive and certainly out of practice). I like her so much both physically and to talk to but I do need to know if this could go anywhere, if it don't no big deal atying friends is OK, but I hope you do not think I am being unreasonable in wanting more and would like to know where I stand.

Or is it too early and should I just go with the flow continue to meet up and not make any advance until she does??...soory bout this and I hope I am making sense but any advice would be greatly appreciated! http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

[jools]

Basically, James, it's "yes" to your last paragraph. Strong women like her don't give away too much too soon. That's why she's been so successful in other areas of her life.
Jools.

[jamesm1234]

Right I will sit tight and see how it goes but if she is strong and knows her own mind why dys reckon she blushes and gets a bit funny when talking about anything personal. after lunch I kissed her on the check...now she did not 'pull away' but she did go very red?....

Do you think I should try anythying more forward after dinner or just go with the goodnight and a peck on the cheek again and let her make any further moves...I know I proably sound ridiculous but believe me after 18 years with the same person I don't have a clue...the last time I asked anyone out I got my nate to do it down the park when I 17! :-)

Thanks for your support!

[jools]

Hi James
I'm still on the PC cos i'm supposed to be working...and getting too easily distracted! Anyway, having been a squash player myself I recognise the type of woman that you have described. That sounds awful...I know we shouldn't categorise women. I mean, women who are driven to succeed both physically and in business. They are often emotionally guarded. It might be one area of her life that she feels less secure about, less "in control" of (hence the blushes). I bet she wouldn't blush in a face to face with a man while making business decisions. You have to be careful that you don't scare her off by taking things too quickly.

How long have you been seeing her? If it's early stages then just take it slowly. I suspect she's interested in you or she wouldn't be seeing you (or blushing!). Maybe her relationship history might hold clues as to why she's so guarded. Good luck
Jools. X
________

[jamesm1234]

Thanks for your support (but don't get in trouble at work on my account) :-)

But to answer your question...not long at all really, however from my limited experience of what seem to be like these days they seem to be as forward as the man and know what they want.

The other thing about her is she is not really a (girlie girl)..sorry if sounds stero typical of a red-blooded bloke, but she dresses smart but not sugestive and wear little make-up (even more impressice that she looks so great).

Do you think I should still pay the complements and tell her how much I fancy her or totally ease off and just have 'friends' type conversation etc..

Last night after playing her, I said what about Dinner then and she went red and said oh that would be good...I said OK whens good for you and she said oh I wont know til I check my diary.

Ok I said I will leave it to you (thinking she had gone cold on it) yet today she emails sayin she if free Saturday night so I think she must be somewhat interested.

Don't get me wrong with all this I am enjoying the intrigue and find her fascinating I just do not want to make a hash of it but I can't help being me (which is quite a simple to the point and hopefull light hearted sort of bloke).

Ta

[jools]

Hi James
I won't get in trouble as i'm "working" from home! She's definitely interested! Believe me! That sort of woman wouldn't get past the polite drink after the suash game with you unless she was. Compliment her but don't make it too overt (and definitely not sexual). I know what you mean when you say not girlie. Girlies can be annoying, so another plus. She sounds lovely. No rush, keep it friendly. I'm sure she'll appreciate you for NOT rushing things. You'll know when the time is right, and if in doubt...leave it out! She obviously likes who you are, so be yourself. So pleased for you James.
Jools. X
________

[jamesm1234]

Thanks for the advice, the other thing is got the right ump because I insisted on paying the bill for lunch last time.

In the end the only way I could pay was to tell her she would get the next tab...trouble is (and I might be old fashioned here) but we are due to have dinner and I am going to find it very difficult to let her pay...should I let her or should I insist? (the women paying really does go against the grain)

God, why can't life be simple....you women are a mystery to me http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif

[jools]

No mystery, James. She's not a wittering little girlie..she's a fiercely independent woman. Treat her like an equal. Think how you'd feel if a male friend of yours tried to pay the tab every time you went out. I'd feel exactly the same if I was her. She's a competitive woman and might view your attempts to look after her as patronising. I know you're just trying to be gentlemanly, but you'll have to give way here, or risk making her feel uncomfortable. Let her pay the next one if she wants to...you can always mention that you'd rather pay, but respect her wishes to do so (I think that would cover things...maybe you could go halves to make you feel better?). Female psychology dictates that if you let a man pay for things then you "owe" him in other ways. When you get to know each other better all the things that you are agonising about now will come second nature. She sounds like a decent woman, and I'm sure that everything will fall into place in time.
Jools.
________

[jamesm1234]

Thanks Jools!,

Just to keep you updated she offered to 'pick me up' on Saturday at my house before driving us both to the restaurant (again I would normally do this bit)...anyway after taking your advice I have taken her up on the offer ..I hope your right about treating her equal !!!! :-)

Now at least I can have a few drinks which will certainly help with the nerves!...i wont go mad though as their is nothing attractive about a bloke who is nearly 40 falling over in the car park :-)

Thanks for your advice I will keep you informed of progress, I must sound like a real loser but despite being very assured in every other aspect of my life this dating thing after all these years is very daunting ?

[jools]

You do NOT sound like a loser! You sound absolutely charming. I don't want to confuse matters here but you've got a fine balance to keep between treating her equal while still making it clear that you would like to pay BUT respect her wishes. Don't give up completely on your efforts to pay...just don't push it too much. Generosity is very attractive in a person. Thank her for driving but insist on you driving next time. Do you think she wants the excuse not to drink, so she'll remain in control? Infact, as she's driving you could offer to pay for the meal and when she refuses ask if she'd feel better going halves. Make sure you only drink in moderation as she might find drunk men a turn off...that comes later. :D Sorry if I'm stating the bloody obvious, but I feel responsible having given the advice so far!!!! Let us know how it goes.
Jools. X
________

[Sierra]

I would suggest you try and get her onto the smaller court in your bedroom for an exhibition match, serve her up a ball or two and see what she does with them!!!

If she's just as ready to get sweaty and run a marathon there there then I say you now have a new mixed doubles partner!!

To assist you I have included the rules of bedroom golf here. Much of the same logic applies to bedroom tennis.

The Rules of Bedroom Golf:

Each player shall furnish his own equipment for play, normally one club (or racket) and two balls.
Play on course must be approved by the owner of the hole (or court).
Unlike outdoor golf, the object is to get the club in the hole and keep the balls out.
For most effective play, the club (or racquet) should have a firm shaft. Course owners are permitted to check shaft stiffness before play begins.
Course owners reserve the right to restrict club or racquet length to avoid damage to the hole or court.
Object of the game is to take as many strokes as necessary until the owner is satisfied play is complete. Failure to do so may result in being denied permission to play again.
It is considered bad form to begin playing the hole immediately upon arrival. Experienced players will normally take time to admire the entire course, paying special attention to well formed mounds and bunkers.
Players are cautioned not to mention other courses they have played or are currently playing to the owner of the course being played. Upset owners have been known to damage a players equipment for this reason.
Players are encouraged to have proper rain gear, just in case.
Players should not assume that the course is in shape to play at all times. Players may be embarrassed if they find the course temporarily under repair. Players are advised to be extremely tactful in this situation. More advanced players will find alternate means of play when this is the case.
Players should assume their match has been properly scheduled particularly when playing a new course for the 1st time. Previous players have been known to become irate if they discover someone else is playing what they considered a private course.
The owner of the course is responsible for the pruning of any bushes, which may reduce the visibility of the hole.
Players are strongly advised to get the owners permission before attempting to play the backside.
Slow play is encouraged, however, players should be prepared to proceed at a quicker pace at the owners request.
It is considered an outstanding performance, time permitting, to play the same hole several times in one match.
D

[Kate]

James


I agree with Jools. Hope the date goes well.
Kate

[jamesm1234]

Hi Kate, Jools,

Well the date was interesting!...we had a nice time, she came to pick me up we had a drink at my place then off to the restaurant. We had a nice dinner and did quite alot of talking about each othres likes and dislikes etc...I felt like she started to 'chill' a little more and there was plenty of 'signals' or so the Body language experts say. Things like her playing with her hair, putting it behind her ears, lots of eye contact and using her hands out in front of her to explain things, I don't know how much all that stuff really means but I felt things were going well.

She still did not give any BIG indications away that she was ready to snog my face off but keeping your advice in mind I paid her compliments but did not get sexual...the only thing was when she neary hit me with a big spoon that the restaurant give you whilst waiting for a table and I said 'careful I might like that'...and she laughed so I think that was ok?.

Their was one major spanner in the works at the end of the night tho...my daughter who is 13 and living with me since my wife left rang me up giving me grief coz she had found out that she had been in the house. When we arrived back at my place she was at the window not looking very happy, so I explained a little to my date (she already knew that my daughter is not happy with me having a friend and still thinks I will get back with my wife)...which I WILL NOT by the way and the divorce is under way. Anyway she was reluctant to come in for a coffe and to be honest I would not subject her to my daughters tantrums.

So the night ended there, now I think this is positive but the first time I took her to lunch I kissed her goodbye on the cheek (coz she turned that way)...this time she met me with her lips..still only a peck but progress?.

Anyway two bits of advice required now I suppose....just when to I make my feelings clear and make more of a move (sorry bout this but I am just busting to give her a proper cuddle and kiss).

Secondly I am not sure what to do about my little girl she gets really vicious when I mention that I may one day have a girlfriend again and says that she would be rude to them if they came in the house (I understand this and would never embarss them) but I cannot be dictated to by a 13 year old. I have tried talking to her and I think I might end up giving my wife more money so she can live with her (which she says she wants now)..she will do the same to my wife when\if she gets someone so the problem will just be moved?

I also think this may put my 'friend' off as she does not have any kids?

Any more good advice?

[jamesm1234]

Oh yes and she paid before I could get the chance to argue....I was thinking of sending her flowers to say thank you (and sort of get my own back for the paid dinner)...or do you think that would be too much too early?

[jools]

Hi James
It seems that you have two issues to consider now. Firstly, it seems to be going well with the dating. Sounds like she's interested. I suggest neither of you drive next time so that you can both have a drink...and see what develops! But secondly, your daughter. I can fully understand how she's feeling. I know that my daughters would be equally protective of their father. So how to proceed?

Paying your wife more for your daughter to stay with her would make the dating easier BUT I don't think it would do much for your relationship with your daughter. She must be feeling very unsettled and insecure at the moment. She needs all your love and attention. Does she have to know that you're on a "date"? Can't you just be going out with a "friend" and keep the two of them separate? I know you can't hide the truth for ever but it's still early days for her and she must be very raw regarding her parents' separation.
Jools.
________

[jamesm1234]

Hi Jools, I know it is a dilemma....don't get me wrong I love her to bits but she has been hard work and her mum does want her to stay with her and if she wants to go I do not want to stand in her way. I have told her that this was just a friend but she is a very bright girl and works things out...saying things like you never used to dress up like that for mum?

I would always put my kids before ANYONE..I have an older son living at home but he knows the score and whilst he doesnt like it he understands. All I ask is for my daughter to be civl nothing more.

I am talking to her quite alot and I am sure we can work through it, I will keep you up to date tho...

What dya reckon on the flowers good\bad?

[jools]

Mmmmm....flowers or not? That's a hard one. If she's someone that is a bit scared of commitment then it might make her feel a bit claustrophobic. Gotta say I'm not sure on this one. Personally, flowers have always "scared" me but I don't know how she'd react. She might be bowled over.It's your call, James. You keep asking whether it's "too soon". How many dates have you had?
Jools

[jamesm1234]

A lunch, a Dinner and two games of Squash ??

[jools]

Early days then. I'm thinking maybe too early for flowers...but I could be completely wrong. I mean that is who you are...i.e. someone who would naturally send flowers. Maybe you should just be yourself? Not much help on this one, am I? :confused:
Jools
Any of the other ladies want to lend an opinion???
________

[Sierra]

I would suggest paying your daughter instead of your wife. That should work out nicely.

Skip the flowers (or give them to your daughter).

Try this......

Lunch. Make the beast with two backs. Dinner. Desert. Squash. Hot tub. Slumber party.

Secondly, next time you and the new gal talk sports, ask her if she as ever tried co-ed couch wrestling. Offer to demonstrate.

That shoud do it.

D

[Dave]

Why not take a look at the tip on "Love Languages" (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/tips/whatlove.html) and see if you can figure out what hers are - or even make it a topic of the conversation!

Dave

[hoxton]

James
You should tell her seeing as you are taking it in turns to pay it is your turn now so you will just have to go out again.

As regard to your daughter I agree it must be really hard for her. She will be insecure but I think as hard as it is for her she needs to know that you want to live your life again.
Just reassure her that noone will take her place.
If you hide it or tell her it is just a friend and not a date you could run into a few problems.

If you and your date hit it off your daughter may feel you have lied to her by saying you are just friends.
And even more to the point, you don't want her thinking that if she plays up or gives you a hard time you will dump every woman you meet and like.

I know it is hard but as long as you reassure her that it will not change your relationship with her. She will adjust, I am sure there will be tears but you cant live your life on your own just because your daughter is struggling to cope. I know that sounds harsh but you are entitled to move on. She will get over it.
Amanda.

[Sierra]

Try this.....

Take her to a nice Itallian restarant. Tell her you want her to see your man-sized manicotti!!!!!

Take this gal in your arms. Anything else is a detail.

D

[Kate]

Dear James

I feel concerned about some of the advice about your daughter. She is 13 and struggling with her mother walking out and her family breaking up. Being 13 these days is difficult enough with out these added issues for her. I think that it's not just an issue of she can't control your life and stop you dating, it's about trying to ensure that she feels secure and loved. In one sense she actually needs to come first. She won't be around for many more years and she needs all the best you can give her to get her started in adult life.



There is evidence that children from broken homes are more likely to struggle at school and get into difficulties. They also find it harder to make strong adult relationships when they grow up. It doesn't matter whose fault it is that your marriage has fallen apart, what matters surly is ensuring that the damage to your child is minimised and right now you are the one with the main responsibility for that.


I'm not saying don't date, I'm saying, make sure you have done everything you can for your child first.

Kate

[jamesm1234]

Thanks Kate,

I fully agree with you and I would always put my children first EVERY TIME WITHOUT EXCEPTION but I do need to balance that with me stillbeing to have a life.

The fact is my Daughter is at a very difficuly age and as you say needs all the support she can get but the fact is we do have a broken family coz my wife left. However the situation now is that my wife (at the moment) has settled down and would like to have my daughter live with her...I have talked at lengh with both and this is what they both want. I have assured my daughter that whatever happens we are BOTH always there for her and I will keep her room in tact etc....and she can stay whenever she wants.

I am not looking to get my daughter out of the way so I can date women, the only reason I mentioned my daughter was in the context of keeping people up to date with my hew friend (which I am finding difficult). I would certainly think VERY carefully indeed before trying to introduce another women to the hous...this is way off!!!.

All I expect form my kids is that they try and understand that me and their mum love them very much but do have lives to lead....but never at their expense!

To be honest providing their mum is stable....which she is now I think a tennage girl needs a mum 'day to day' probably a little more than their dad...she started 'womens' things a little while ago and I was NO help http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif yet her mum had her sorted in moments!.

I also have a son who is a lot older and he wants to stay with me..I am basically allowing them to have a large say in what they want.

[jools]

Hi James
From all your postings I really like you and I am rooting for you with your new lady BUT I have to agree with what Kate said regarding your daughterIn one sense she actually needs to come first. She won't be around for many more years and she needs all the best you can give her to get her started in adult life.
While Hoxton's sentiments sound sensible, I actually disagree.
She will adjust, I am sure there will be tears but you cant live your life on your own just because your daughter is struggling to cope. I know that sounds harsh Yes, that does sound harsh. And it sounds to me like the suggestion is that the daughter's needs come second. Which is why I suggested that the less your daughter knows about your dates the better. I KNOW she'll have to accept these changes eventually but I think that now is too soon. She will get over it.
Most people can get over anything, but it's a question of HOW she'll come out the other side. The success of her future relationships will depend to a large extent on her relationship with you. She needs to feel like the number one lady in your life at the moment. I think you're just gonna have to practise juggling for the time being. But to expect a 13yr old to "accept" this when she's still struggling to "accept" her parents' split is, I think, too much (at the moment).

You sound like a loving father and I'm sure that this is tearing you apart, but I think it has to be a slow process where your daughter's concerned. Like I said though I really hope you and your new lady can make each other happy.
Luv Jools. X

PS) Did you send the flowers?
________

[jamesm1234]

Hey Jools,

Thanks for the advice...and support...I am trying to do whats best for ALL concerned and I appreciate all the views and opinions I can get then at the end of the day I will have to consider everything...but above all my daughters well being than do what I think is right!.

I never did send the flowers and things have gone a bit quite (I sent the last email to her)...not heard anything yet, but she did say she was busy at work ? I am supposed to be meeting her and another friend of mine for a game of squash tomorrow so I will see how the land lies then.....I really can't work her out hence the post in the first place in it seems my daughters well fare got dragged in coz of the way she reacted on the second date :-)

Anyway I will keep you informed I keep thinking about calling again or sending emails or txt's but I do not want to seem 'needy'...am I bovered...look at my face AM I BOVERED?? :-)

Keep the advice coming I ain't got a clue anymore :-)

[jools]

You make me laugh :D ! Still, you're right about not appearing needy...not a good look! Just think to yourself that she'd be mad to miss this opportunity! You CAN only be yourself - so stop trying to "work her out" and just go with the flow.
Jools X
________

[jamesm1234]

Well I am glad about that :-)...trouble is deep down I want to contact her but as you say if she aint interested her loss right ?

I reckon if she agrees to another date if I see her tomorrow then its game on and I will just have to make my feelings a little clearer (maybe just go for a snog??).

Failing that watch out girlie squash players I am back on the market !!! (mmmm) coz you get loads of them right ???

[jamesm1234]

Well thats that then...I met up with her on Friday night and we had a drink after till they threw us out!...seemed to get on well again?

At the end of the night I walk her to her car and try and give her a proper kiss good night :-) I only got a closed lip peck back?

I ask her if she could make any time over the weekend but she said she is going out with the girls Saturday and probably working Sunday.

I send her another txt today saying the weather is lovely (too nice to work) and she should let me take her out but no joy!..

Now I might seem to be being silly but I keep telling her how much I think of her and trying to take things a 'bit further' but have been getting nothing in return...so I sent her a txt saying 'I think I get the message but hey I will still buy you a drink when I see you at Squash matches' and if I have mis-read the situation she knows where I am!.

I have never met a women that is so hard work and I was not getting any inclination that she was interested in a relationship (which I was)...I suppose you will tell me I have done the wrong thing but I reckon I was 'flogging a dead horse' :-)

Things with my daughter are fine at the moment she seems happy and she and her mum are looking forward to miving into their new house and if she is happy then so am I.

Cheers for all the support!

[jools]

Hi James
Been wondering how it went. You've done nothing wrong...just been yourself. She's obviously a very guarded person where relationships are concerned and is not the type to jump in too quickly. She has probably felt that it's all happening too quickly. She seems to have a very successful single life and is (understandably) reluctant to move too quickly here. I still reckon she could "thaw" over time but it's obviously frustrating for you. Just back off and treat it as a friendship. If she does ever "thaw" then it might be worth the wait and the frustration...better than some of these "girlies" that latch on like limpets and get all possessive....and then moan about how often you're playing squash every week! As you've only had 2 or 3 dates I can understand her holding back from the full on snog...emotionally that can be a bit of a commitment for a woman (unless she's drunk!). Only time will tell, I guess.
Jools XX

[jamesm1234]

Hi Jools,

Well I do understand and agree with everything you have said but the thing was I have had 'nothing' back in terms of hints that she is interested in anything more.

I have left the ball in her court now....if she is interested she can contact me (probably doubtful knowing her) but don't know what else I can do?

Also some of the things she say's make me wonder....such as she told me about her last sqaush game (playing a man) and she said oh he was a typical man he beat me 3-1 and then said when do you ladies start ot step it up a bit then. She went on to say that men are always arrogant, want to win all the time and she can't be bothered with the attitude!....Well I aint being funny but I do sometimes think she should just 'chill' a bit...she is bordering on the 'burn the bra brigade' :-).

Also I turned up on Friday with quite smart clothes before getting changed and for after (nothing flash just making the effort for her)...she turns up in her track suit before and after. She still looks great in that but I would have thought that she would of made a little effort if she was interested.

Now I may be way off track here and I might be a little 'old fashioned' but it would be nice to have 'just a little' positive feedback from someone....even after 4 dates??

On well....be good and I will post if anything changes...please feel free to comment on this post as if I am coming across as unreasonable or unrealistic I would rather know!!! :-)...I am still not bovered :-(

[jools]

Dear James
I know EXACTLY where this woman's coming from. Her comment about men's attitudes is exactly the sort of comment that i frequently come up with!!! In fact she sounds like my sort of woman. I've always been very resistant to any man who tries to look after me. My poor husband winces sometimes when we're out socially and I feel the need to put some overbearing man in his place. Speaking in your lady's defence, it can be VERY infuriating for us women at times because there ARE a lot of arrogant men out there who think they're superior to women JUST because they've got a bit of tackle between their legs! A lot of girlies are happy to let these types get away with it but stronger minded women absolutely HATE it! You have the luxury of not having this attitude constantly in your face. I suppose it's a bit like white people not really understanding what it feels like to put up with racist attitudes (though racism is far worse!).

My husband (like you) was oblivious to this problem until I pointed it out to him. His radar's much more finely tuned now. I've never owned a handbag...I've got bags for definite needs..like a school bag (for my books), a kit bag(for training, squash etc) and an even bigger kit bag for hols. But what's the point of handbags? And why "posh up" when you're going to play squash? You said she looked "great" in her track suit, so what's the problem? I think you're reading her all wrong. If I was her I would still be being VERY cautious after 4 dates. You said that she should "chill" a bit...but I think it's you who should "chill", James! Please don't be cross with me for saying that. I hope I'm speaking as a concerned friend who can see that you ARE being unrealistic with this lady. She's NO pushover and VERY hard to impress. But the impressing won't come with flowers. When she moaned about the arrogant men to you this was actually a good sign... she obviously assumes you aren't one so thought you would sympathise with what she has to put up with. She's not a bra burner! To my mind she's normal. Treat her like a friend. And that's it.

Sorry I've rambled. I'm going upstairs to burn all my bras now. Except my sports bra cos I'm goin for a run later. :D

Jools. XX
________

[jamesm1234]

Well that told me eh :-)

You are probably right (dare not say your not now :-)) but the most pertinent piece of advice you have given me to date is to be myself and if I find her views and attitude difficult the last thing I should do is try amnd make myself something I am not in order to accomadate her ie; Be false!.

As far as the track suit is concerned I realise what you are saying but again I would of thought that if you were interested in someone would you not make an extra effort to look nice?

At the end of the day (and you will probably shoot me down in flames for this) but whilst I firmly believe in equal rights for EVERYONE I still like to be able to treat a 'lady like a lady' and take the 'lead' a little?

Stupid little things like on Friday I said I will walk you to your car, and I get but it is only right outside the door !!..I mean come on I am just trying to be a nice (not too nice) guy and trying to do the right thing. Do women really not want men to be ment anymore and be a gentlemen?

[jools]

James, I am supposed to be working from home today, and I've probably written more to you than I have on my reports....but this is FAR more interesting!!!!

I'm sitting here trying to put into words why some women might not want to be "treated like a lady". TRICKY! How about.."treated with respect, as a person". I think the act of you walking her to her car would signify to others in the club that you were an item (in her mind) which she's not ready for. On the other hand, if her car was parked the other side of a dark car park, then it would be sensible to do so. Also...the track suit thing...dressing up would also signify something that she's not ready to admit. As for "leading a little"...that's gonna be a big "no no" with her. It's got to be absolutely equal (like you would with any other friend). I firmly believe in equal rights for EVERYONE I still like to be able to treat a 'lady like a lady' and take the 'lead' a little?
If she's being lead then it's not equal.
Do women really not want men to be ment anymore and be a gentlemen? My H is a real man's man. Reckons he can't talk to women. Happier talking rugby or mountainbiking. He's not a "gentleman" in the flowers and opening doors way, but he's very kind and allows me to be myself. I suppose the connotation of "gentleman" is that you expect the woman to act like a "lady" (cue "Little Britain"). Does that mean I can't tell a rude joke just cos I'm in mixed company? I wouldn't want to socialise in that kind of environment (wives who "know their place").

Nah! We've all got to be ouselves at the end of the day. If you feel the need to "lead" in a relationship and want to send flowers etc and she's not up for that then maybe she's the wrong type for you. BUT I think you're judging too soon.
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[jamesm1234]

Hey...I am supposed to be working also...but I am enjoying this deabate...I feel quite enlightened by it all :-)

I can see were you are coming from of course I can and maybe I am asking for too much too soon but to keep things in persepective whenever I meet her she bangs on about men this and men that, always seem to want to win and be competitive.

But at the end of the day why on earth does she play squash in a predominatly Male league if she does not like men or competing to WIN???

I am a man and yes I am competitive and yes I want to win otherwise what is the point of getting on court or competing at all if you really do not care about the outcome.

My ego would also not like it if I were beaten by a girl BUT if she were a better player on the day I would shake her hand and accept the defeat with good grace coz despite my Male ego I am a also a 'good sportsman' which has to mean being a good loser as well!

I think I have probably put her right off now anyway because depite her saying she was too busy on Sunday I stated that I got the message (probably implying that she was not that busy)...problem is she lives 10 mins away and even if she was busy could she not have found an hour for a coffee or lunch?...

Maybe I am just one of those people that make up their mind about something then get very impatient til I get it (sort of spolied I suppose).

Trouble is despite ALL of what I am saying there is something about her that is driving me mad with curosity and I still find her very appealing indeed, and sexy and intelligent...just completely frustrating!!!!??...(otherwise I would not still be writing here) I think the best I can do now is totally forget about her for a couple of weeks (she is going home this weekend) and wait until I see her in the squash leagues again (couple of weeks). But what can I do ask fo r lunch AGAIN and keep trying to 'chip away'.

The last txt I sent said if I have read things wrong and you do want to keep seeing me you have my details???

I am really confused now, fascinated, intrigued??

Jools....(help) :-)

[jamesm1234]

Oh yes and just a little something to confuse the hell out you even more....there were a lot of reasons why my marriage split up but one of the things that I did get crticised for was not being 'luvy duvy' enough.

I let my wife have her own life, go to work, go out with her friends (coz I thought this is what she wanted). I used to buy her everthing New cars, clothes etc...but I apparently did not give her enough cuddles or flowers to show I loved her enough.

This was not the only reason and I do not want to go into any great detail about that otherwise neither of us will ever do any work but can you see my confusion...I think that type of attention is what women want : ??

[jools]

JAMES!!!! You've got me laughing and screaming at my monitor here! Now LISTEN!



whenever I meet her she bangs on about men this and men that, always seem to want to win and be competitive.

But at the end of the day why on earth does she play squash in a predominatly Male league if she does not like men or competing to WIN???




It's not about liking or disliking. She's got something to prove here...that she CAN compete with men as an equal. And if she's a good player she has to play the men to get the really good games (fact!). And of course she gets pissed off with some of the stupid arrogant men that she plays. Cue one of those Hollywood movies, where you swap bodies with her for a week and see how some of these apparently reasonable nice blokes react when playing a woman (i'm speaking from experience).
My ego would also not like it if I were beaten by a girl BUT if she were a better player on the day I would shake her hand and accept the defeat with good grace coz despite my Male ego I am a also a 'good sportsman' which has to mean being a good loser as well!
Ok. So that's one point in your favour. And in time you might learn to drop that "ego" bit and just say you were beaten by a better PLAYER. Full stop!

there is something about her that is driving me mad with curosity and I still find her very appealing indeed, and sexy and intelligent...just completely frustrating!!!!??.

Sounds perfect, doesn't she? Not like the others? So back off and give her space. And when you do next see her DON'T ask her for lunch or anything formal. Buy her a drink in the bar and just chat friendly. How many weeks? Don't know if I can wait that long! If anything does come of this I'll expect a bloody invite to the wedding! Back to the reports, then I'm going for a nice long run. Catch you soon!
Luv Jools. XX

PS) Just seen your last posting (we were typing at the same time!) Those reasons that your wife gave were probably just excuses. And if this new woman is totally different - then so much the better!
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[jamesm1234]

LOL....Have a nice run, I hope that bra you nearly burned holds up :-)

I hate women with black eyes!

[jools]

They wouldn't reach my eyes!! :eek:
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[jamesm1234]

How many weeks? Don't know if I can wait that long!

Jools...what are you asking when will I be seeing her next?..if so My team is due to plays hers on the 23rd March...if she and I both turn out of course...wild horses will not keep me away...

So just to re-cap...talk niceley but DONT ask her out??...how does that work?, that will be the end of the season and so I would HAVE to rely on her contacting me?

[jools]

OK...bra held out...nothing bruised. Think I misread you. So she's NOT going away for a couple of weeks. I also assumed that you were members of the same squash club, which would have meant that you could socialise without making formal arrangements. But it's trickier than I thought. I just meant try not to make your next meeting "formal". Maybe a game of squash and a drink after? But give it a while. I'm trying my best, James! Keep yer racket up!
Jools. X
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[Sierra]

What was that about "bra held out"?

That sounded like a good place to start. Get her to hold out her bra.

Offer help!!!

D

[jamesm1234]

Hey I am glad you do dnot look like a Panda!

No the trouble is that we are in different clubs but in the same league...so we would get to see each only a couple of times a year unless I make some type of effort (thats why I was wondering whether I have totally blown it with my txt too her when she could not see my on Sunday?)

Even bigger problem is that my team are getting promoted all being well which means I will not see her at all next season!.

This weekend she is going home but two weekends after that our teams are due to meet, I was thinking that I should leave things well alone til then and then ask her out again then.

I think the problem is what I said in the txt, she said that she was working so I said 'I think I get the message'...she has not come back to me and she probably thinks that I did not believe her that she did not have time to meet up?

Suppose I would have to apologise for the txt...What a doughnut :-)

[jools]

Yep, I agree that the txt might have been a bad idea. Just say sorry next time you see her. Bloody tricky thing this dating lark isn't it?
Jools. X
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[jamesm1234]

Dya reckon I should email or txt to say I was sorry that I sent it or just wait til I paths cross again?

The more I think of it the worse I feel about sedning it at the end of the day she was interested enough to keep meeting me and having a chat and a drink now I may have cut that off so I will NEVER know if I could have won her over?