My marriage is dying...

[Springheeled Jack]

With out going over any of the details, if youve ready my posts then you'll get the jist.

It has taken it til now forme to realise that unless a miracle happens then my wife is going to walk out on me. Over the past month or so, she has become emotionally distant, our sex life hardly exists, she doesnt want me near her, she tells me that our marriage isnt working.

So I need damage limitation. I had a failed first marriage where my exwife just left taking my beloved son. There was no note, no nothing. I didnt know where they were for 5-6 months. Looking back on it, that was clinical, a clean break.

This time round, I hope that my wife spares my feelings and just goes. I couldnt bare to be in the vicinity especially as I love her so much, I cant bare to see her go. I would prefere her to leave with me not there. Like before, me coming home from work and the house is empty.

I couldnt bare saying goodbye to the woman I love more than anything, one that I dont want to leave. I cant stop her, but I dont want her to go.

Im not about to go running after her, and be an idiot, that isnt my style. Like wise I really hope she doesnt say the classic "can we still be friends".

That, people, wont be happening. I cant bare to see her knowing that after all we've been through that she would see me as a friend....

So my question is how do I get through this and cope with her leaving me...

Any hints or tips you could pass on?

[jeannie]

I will be very interested to read any replies you get as I am in exactly the same boat again with H. Last week he first of all told me he did not love me and the next day told me he was seeing someone else !. He had in fact spent the day with her and we were supposed to be on holiday.


I felt so close to him the night he told me and we held each other and talked all night and I felt we could work it out. He is of nature a person who sticks his head in the sand and does not discuss his feelings. So to hear he could talk and laugh with her hurt me. But I feel we have been together for 35yrs and I am not ready to throw that away. Next day he went to see her ( that was hard for me) and told her he still had feelings for me and wanted to try. Apparently she accepted this. Last week was so unreal, we sat around in the sun, and talked like never before. We made love and became so close. He has been under stress at work and we could see it but he would not accept it. Now he has done so and also admitted this is some mid-life crisis.

Now he is back at work ( where she is also so they see each other every day) he has not gone out at night but I do not know if he is in contact. Every morning I die as he walks out the door, I am falling apart I know. I am drinking, not eating and today found it very hard to even get up. I rang him , he did not answer and when he did rang back he was also talking to someone in the background and laughing. I immediately put the phone down. He is a different person at work from what the family see at home, he is telling me one thing and doing another. The fact he is still here and sharing my bed, but we are not so close and no lovemaking we are back to square one.

I still love him, still want to try and not throw egverything away but cannot go on if this is it. He has asked if he goes can he come back if it does not work out and can we be friends. How can we, my family has been shattered. The things my son texted him no son should say to his Father and our daughter is in pieces over it. I know this has to be sorted. I want to talk again but scared of the answers but stilll feel he told me as being a weak person he wants me to make his decision, NO WAY and perhaps he knows he is huting me and does not want to do anymore.

I can totally sympathise with your situation, but where do we go from here. I know I am going to fall apart soon, I have been to calm over all this and despite knowing my family and friends will be there I will still be alone. I already have panic attackswhen I go out in case I see the O/W

Be strong, prepare for the worst andperhaps it will not be as bad as we fear whatever the outcombe.

Take care

Jeannie

[London]

You basically need to get on with LIVING your life to its fullest. If you stop and look at what is going on, you will see your respective partners are doing just that - yet it is you who feels the pain, the agony, the hurt, the betrayal - BUT you haven't done anything wrong.

It may be hard, but the only way your (ex-)partners can ever respect you and not feel "pity" is by you living your life and not just waiting on their every move. They have you tied around their pinky finger while they do what they please.... is that living or existing a life?

[Hope]

Oh yes the "lets be friends thing" has once again been mentioned!!!

Well my ex H and I have recently had the divorce through and now that the tension of that has gone we're not arguing or falling out. He comes over to collect the kids and we're polite to each other and we may do the odd favour for each other but I don't think we can ever be friends..... I doubt we'll ever spend time with each other having a laugh or long chats. I think when a spouse says they want to be friends its just their way of saying they don't hate you and they don't want to be your enemy.... they just want to leave without much fuss and if you can communicate and be civil then it makes everyone's life less stressful.

This friends thing is nonsense really. My Ex H and I will work hard at speaking politely and getting on for the sake of the kids really plus we won't make each others lives unpleasant with constant rows...... but friends?!?!...... we won't be geniune friends, well I can't be, not after having had an intimate relationship as man and wife.... not now. My ex H thinks we can. He still gives me a hug, even though it doesn't feel right to me.... he still asks for favours as though I'm still his wife.... I think he'd keep me as just a friend or even more like a mother figure. I'm not sure how he can adapt so easily! I struggle to make sense of how he sees our future relationship! I doubt his O/W will have any idea he wants to still be this "friendly" with me but then he's never been an open man and has always led a rather private life that he keeps to himself!

Personally I think the friends thing probably disintegrates when both parties find a new partner because at that point everyone is happy with their new lives and they've moved on. I doubt my ex H will be this friendly when I have a new man in my life!!!

I Hope things get better.... take care.

Hope

[Springheeled Jack]

Thanks Guys, Jeannie and Hope, I feel your pain, I do. Im on the flipside, but whatis the answer. Is there one. The other person makes a life changing descision, one for them they feel is right, but for us, is soul destroying.

some one told me that the best revenge is to have a good and better life with out them. Whilst that may be true, it is still as hard as it can be. I agree with you London when you said "You basically need to get on with LIVING your life to its fullest"

Whilst that may be true, the worst momment is going to be the day after my wife walks out. Waking up and whilst still half asleep, reaching out thinking that they are going to be there. Waking up and finding out and realising that they are gone.

There is nothing that can prepare any one for that momment.

"The Let's be friends" and I so hope my wife doesnt saay that as I with either give her a mouthful, or I will go in to a corner and die. How can you be freinds with someone that you have been intimate with, knows all your secrets, shared your hopes dreams and wishes, and then rips your heart out and stamps on it (ok a bit dramatic but you get the picture).

No, not not not ever will I be friends with some one that I trusted, sacrificed my family for, sacrificed my change of being a father for, no. When my wife walks out the door, then she walks out the door.

I cant ask her or tell her to go as she can use that against me. She has to go of her own free will. Once she does that then she will need a damned good excuse to return.

How can I be in the house when she goes, especially when I dont want her to go? How cruel, vindictive and callous, and dare I say cold can that expectation be.

If she is to go, then she goes when I m not there. so I can come home from work and break apart, without suffering the indignity of her watching me suffer.

[Angel]

when my h went, we agreed that i would go out somewhere and that by the time he got back he'd be gone. i balled by eyes out whilst i was out and when i came back into the house it was the most empty scary feeling ever. make sure you have your friends and family near by to support you. be strong xx you can do it... you are a better person than she is....thinking of u ...i know exactly what your feeling and i know it is scary and it all feels out of control.....

[Springheeled Jack]

Angel, I am scared, very scared. Coming back to an empty house again and reliving the same nightmare. Waking up the next morning and finding noone there. Its horrible.

My family never spoke to me for 3 years because I married my Wife, So I sacrificed my family for her. Im on speaking terms with mum, so thats a start. Ive friends in church and at my martial arts group. Thats outside the house, during the evening or the day, the worst thing is going to be at night time...

Its scary...

[Hope]

Its not an easy decision deciding whether or not you should remain at the marital home whilst your W leaves or not. Personally I wanted to be here when my H left. I had to witness him physically leave just to prove to myself that it wasn't just a bad dream! I also wanted to see if he felt any emotion whilst he piled his black bin liners of clothes into his car!

He was very quiet. One silly little detail that sticks in my mind is that my H has dark hair and I can remember seeing one single long curly blonde hair drapped across his short spiky hair.... she must have given him a cuddle before he set out to my house, for moral support..... that upset me! I know he didn't find it easy taking his things and leaving but I'm glad he had to face up to it all and witness my sadness. That day is still very clear to me sadly.

He came into the house and couldn't look me in the eye.... we had NO eye contact through out the whole time he was walking backwards and fowards to his car! I'm not sure what that meant... did he feel upset about what he was really doing.... did it display signs of having a "consience"?

To this day I'm glad I was at home to watch his official departure from our home. I'm glad he had to face up to the uncomfortable silence and sadness that filled the air that day. I didn't avoid any of these uncomfortable and upsetting moments.... I faced them all..... I cried buckets daily..... I watched him get in his car and drive back to HER.... the woman he'd traded me in for!!!

I know watching your W leave would be terribly painful for you but in a way I think it just helps the reality of what's really going on sink in. Having said that we're all different and if you personally feel it would destroy you to watch her leave then spend time with people close to you and perhaps bring them home to the house.... don't be alone at a time like that.... or on a day like that.

Keep posting and we'll all be thinking about you.

Hope

[Springheeled Jack]

Hope thank you.

My wife had been unemployed for three months, so she had to stop her direct debits at the bank, for her contribution to the bills etc. Last night I innocently asked her if she were going to restart the direct debits, she told me NO that she didint want to.

Well if that didnt speak volumes I dont know what did.

It is the time of the month for her, so I was taking my life in my hands, so I asked her if everything was ok, she didnt answer me. She was so moody:( I said her (ok pleaded..) that I thought that she said that we were going to "try", I quoted an email she sent me in response to one I sent her where I said that we were going through a sticky patch and that I wasnt going to throw our marriage away" She replied and I quote "I know and I hope we can try xxx".

That email was three days ago, now it appears that she has lied and gone back on her word. I told her that I love her and that at this momment I was scared. I said that I hope that we can work things out. I asked her what on earth Ive done that was so bad so terrible that she is treating me like s**t, and talking to me in the same way, now just now, but for the past three months or so.

Hope, Im trying best to try to save our marriage. Heres me jumping through hoops to please her:confused:, she said that she hopes we can "try" but so far she has done nothing. Just sitting back and watching me "perform".

All she did was to stare in the distance and not answer me. When, not if she leaves, her daughter will be helping her, as we just do not get on. She is 20 going on 4.

Hope I cant be in the same house on the day or evening she leaves. :( Ill loose all dignity. In my head I know she's getting ready to leave and will leave me. In my heart, Im scared to death, how can I stand there and watch the woman I love my that anything just walk out the door, Id still beg and plead with her for her to stay.

How came something that started so wonderful, go so wrong. Hope I tried my best, I really did. What I did, or didn’t do. Surely I didn’t deserve this. What ever I said or didn’t say, surely it cant have been that bad for me to deserve this. She said that we would work things, she said that we would try. Sadly she isnt keeping to her word. There will too many people whispering in her ear . I believed her when she said I was her soulmate, I believed and I trusted her. I sacrificed my family for her.

It would destroy me, Id have to go somewhere, anywhere and break my heart...

So then once again, I go home and find the house empty. I cant believe she is leaving me with out giving me a second thought.

Jack

[Angel]

i think about you dialy springheeled jack - keep strong and true to yourself xx

[Springheeled Jack]

Angel, bless you, its nice to know that somebody thinks of me, even if it is in cyberspace.

In my head I know she is leaving, in my heart I cant bare her to leave, I dont want her to leave I want us to patch up our marrige and not just throw it away with out a second thought.

I remember what I went through when my first wife left. I thought everthig was ok, but when I came home and the house was empty. I did think that she was at her sisters. however when midnight came round and then three in the morning, I was frantic. There was no note no nothing. My son was with her.

I heard nothing for month.

I never thought that this would happen again, I keep going over in my head what did I do wrong, what did I say wrong, but if Im not told, how on earth can I know Angel. My wife is saying nothing, she wont even look at me.

Ive never cheated on her, Ive never disrespected her, I would never dream of lifting a finger to her, I dont stay out over night, She always knows where I am so why is she doing this?

Knowing Im going to be in an empty house again, sometimes Angel is going to be too much for me to bare, especially as I dont know what Ive done that is so wrong for my wife to leave me.

I sacrificed my family for her, They want nothing to do with me, I sacrificed being a Father for her, she said she would abort my baby, whats left Angel. When she goes Ill have no one..

:(

[Angel]

you have so much to give - you sound like a loving man who values those close to them. i have realised our spouses are selfish, and that we as lovely people (cos we are!) deserve to be treated better. i have thought that maybe becuase i find it easy to show my love and totally respected my H, that he was unable to and that made him feel uncomfortable. i have realised i will never know. just remember they are the ones who have lost out and you have so much more to give to a deserving person.....you need to find someone who values you as much as you value them. you'll get through it...a year on even tho i still love h, i realiase i have a life to live and the ultimate 'revenge' if you can call it that is to make a success of my life in every way - one day, i think he may regret what he has done as although i am not perfect, i was a doting wife, just like you were a doting h. mayb they think the grass is greener, let them find out that, yes, mayb for a while it is, but reality does set in and they will have their conscience to live with....take care...you derseve to be happy and with someone who treasures you......

[Hope]

Spingheeled Jack,

I felt such sadness after reading your last post. A few painful emotions came flooding back to me actually..... I have a lump in my throat now! I know how you're feeling and those strong feelings of PANIC can engulf you at times... I remember them very well but now I have to push them aside otherwise if I weaken I won't cope with my life alone, even after a year!

I feel the same as you ..... what did I do that was so wrong? I've NEVER been given any real reasons. At first I was told that my ex H thought we'd drifted apart but quite frankly he drifted from me and allowed himself to.... my feelings never really changed. I doubt you have done anything wrong. Ok we all have a few little faults but who is perfect? Our minor imperfections are what make us unique and special!!! None of us who have been abandoned deserve this...... you are a lovely person.... you've begged your W to try again.... you've done your best. I wished my H had wanted to stay with me so badly and I wished he'd shown such loving gestures towards me.

Even though it doesn't take away the pain to hear this but you deserve so much more out of a relationship than your W is willing to give you. One thing that most of the walkaway spouses have in common is that they have a tendency to be selfish.... they think mainly about what they want... what makes them happy! My ex H is even more selfish and arrogant with his new woman..... he tends to have the opinion of take it or leave it. If I'm totally honest I couldn't cope with a relationship like that now and I can only assume that my H's new woman is so desperate to be in a relationship that she's just being a doormat! Most of us who have wanted to work at our marriages have proved to be considerate, kind and caring.... you are that person and don't forget that!

You sound like a good man so please don't let this shatter your confidence. It must be so hard dealing with it second time round. Perhaps you were just unlucky and picked the wrong woman 2nd time round.... don't take all the blame and beat yourself up about it. When I think about my future I feel a little worried about my next relationship going down the tubes! I'm a little afraid that I may pick the wrong partner second time round and I guess I couldn't handle things if it went wrong again so I can understand how awful you must be feeling right now.

When my H left I had the children here to occupy me and I suppose the house was still full of life! I can imagine its going to be difficult being in a deathly silent home but perhaps having friends around you may help?

Keep posting and take good care of yourself....

Hope

[Springheeled Jack]

Angel when you said

"one day, i think he may regret what he has done as although i am not perfect, i was a doting wife, just like you were a doting h. mayb they think the grass is greener, let them find out that, yes, mayb for a while it is, but reality does set in and they will have their conscience to live with"

Im ashamed to admit this that I put my head in my hands and wept. Angel, I hope I do get to be happy with somene that will love me. But who? If not now when? At the momment things look very bleak.

Hope thank you for your kind thoughts, after every thing that weve been through, how could she do this to me?

I am in a house full of memories, but now empty of love. Every room holds a memory, of which Im finding really hard and unbearable to face. Every room I go in to I see her, how happy we were when we moved in, how can something special go so wrong? It’s horrible in the morning when in my half sleep Ill reach over to find that there is an empty space next to me. Suddenly realising that she wont be there, the house will be deathly quiet, is unbearable especially as I dont know why shes gone, as I cant get a straight answer..

It is really hard knowing that Ill facing life on my own again. Ok last time I had my parents, and my family. Now, I won’t have any one, no parents, no wife, no family nothing. So what is there left for me..

It will just a case of wanting the day to go on for an eternity, wanting 5 oclock to be far off in the distance, so that I wouldn’t have to go home, which wont bea home, it will just a be house, I live in, that we used to live in.

If I could rewind time I would have done things differently, I would have said things differently, now I will never have another chance, will I. There will be too many people to persuade her other wise.

What will I do. The worst thing will be the evening of the day she goes, trying to force my self to sleep. Like last time I tried to force myself to sleep. I couldnt. I didnt for two days, I eventually slept on the couch as I couldnt face sleeping in our bed.

I go around in a daze wondering what on earth I have done to make her leave me, what have I done that was SO bad? Then realising is all my fault?, what did I do that was wrong, but what makes it worseis trying to figure what have I done to make her go, makes it harder for me to bear. Im losing the one thing that I love more than anything, and was my whole life. She'll be gone, whats left? Nothing for now.

Don’t worry, Im not about to go after her , it isnt and never has been my style. Ive more pride She never wanted me when she was here, so it would be silly for me to think that She'll want me now.

Im dreading it. Im not and never have been a bad man, so why. Id understand if I was a b*gger, and mistreated her but Im not and I have never ever mistreated a woman, I have never mistreated my wife, I would never cheat on her. Ive never cheated on any one. I gave her everthing, which is why Im finding it hard to understand why..

Pray for me Hope and Angel, its going to take a miracle to get through this..

[Angel]

springheeled jack - i am really concerned about you - i think you need to go and speak to someone (counscellor/GP) soon or at least confide in a friend or someone at work/church/hobbie class- you need all the support you can- please keep in touch and remember you have done nothing wrong. i am sorry i made you cry........big hug xx

[Springheeled Jack]

Angel I cant help it, my wifeis leaving and I dont know why she wont tell me why? She hasnt said, there are signs of her haivng an affair.

I do have a friend that I confide in at work. Im an altar server at Church and once morning I was alone or I thought I was alone in church. I looked up at the big crucifix and I scream out LORD WHY! WHY ME! NOT NOW NOT AGAIN!!

And I sank to my knees and wept openly, I was alone so I thought my not. I put my head in my hand and I sobbed. A few momments after there was a hand on my shoulder. I jumped and I said "lord is that you" then I hear "close enough, its the vicar". :o It made me smile breifly He sat me down and I blurted out everthing.

Im 42 years old, Im built like a brick out house, and I cried like a baby.

There is a collegue at work who I confided in, I told them be cause I just couldnt concentrate. At my martial arts class there is a fellow student who was in the same position. I went to him and I asked him if everything was ok with his situation and I said that Iwas in the same situation.

But I cant help feeling so low, MY wife is making me feel like Im to blame, and that Im a horrible man, Im not, Angel, Im not. I wish I was, then I would understand, but I can be as it is not in my nature.

Its like Im on Death Row waiting for my execution. I just want it to be all over and done with..

I just wish she would tell me why she is leaving. Just to leave with out telling me why is so cruel, so vindictive and so cold.

Angel I dont deserve that.:confused:

Thanks for your hug, as at the momment in time, I could really do with one.

[helenrw200]

Jack

Because your W is maybe leaving does not mean it's your fault. It's an impossible position to be in when someone you love dearly turns round and says they no longer love you, and worse when they have no answer to the question why. This is the second time you've been through this and sadly that means you know what feelings to expect. You gave your heart and trust to someone who no longer wants it and so you are bound to feel despair. You may have to face the fact that you may never know why she is doing this, she may not even know herself.

Have you talked to a professional ? A GP or counsellor ? Talking it through with friends is better than not talking at all, but friends are bound to be biased and that's not always constructive, yes they will be sympathetic and they may very well know what you are going through , some even from personal experience but each seperation is different and a trained counsellor can help you through this.

If your W does decide to leave then you have to start taking care of yourself, emotionally as well as physically, even though it may be the last thing you feel like doing and you shouldn't do it alone, everything is so very much harder to face if you go through it alone.

Your posts are very worrying , we can see you sinking into the pits of despair and I think you are heading for an emotional breakdown. Please jack, seek some help.

Love
Helen

[Springheeled Jack]

IM trying so hard to keep things to gether, its impossible. I trusted my W when she said that she would never treat me like my first wife did. I trusted her.

Like I said in my head, I know she is going. I wish my heart said the same.

Im dreading the day she leaves.

[helenrw200]

Jack

I know , and I know you're feeling distraught , I know you've tried every avenue you can to try to prevent it from happening, but sadly in the end there is nothing you can do to keep someone with you.

let me tell you this, when I was 25 ... a good few years ago... I was totally in love with my soulmate, for complicated reasons , mainly my 6 year old ( at the time ) son, we couldn't be together. He killed himself , what more final way to leave me for good was there ? I went through the agonies that you're going through now, feeling to blame, not knowing why, desperately wondering could I have done anything to stop him, hating him for leaving me, and loving him all the same,scared of the future, loneliness, complete anguish. I was 4months pregnant with our son at the time and I doubted I could bear to go through with the pregnancy. For years I grieved inwardly , I got through each day, smiled when I had to, put on a front, but inside I was slowly dying too. But I got through it , I slowly learned to live again, to find good things in life. I couldn't bring him back, but I was still alive, I had to live, you will too.

Yes it's hard, yes you will feel lonely, yes you will grieve for the marriage and for losing her.... if she goes, but eventually you'll get through it.

We are always here when you want to talk , not the same as " real " people I know, but I wish this group had been here when I was so in need.

Your situation is different to mine, but the feelings of loss will be the same, know you can survive it, and you will.

Love

Helen

[Springheeled Jack]

Thank you for your kinds thought.

You are right, I will grieve. Im ok, Ive come down to the fact that if she goes, then she goes.There will be no "Oh lets be friends as it just will not happen" How can she do this and then turn round and say that?

I survived this once so I suppose Ill do it again. I just hope that somewhere out there will be a genuine woman that will love me for me and mean it.

Jack

[Angel]

I am hoping that too for you ( and for me!!) we deserve so much better - we are good people but are unfortunately married to selfish people who obviously did not mean their wedding vows. they will in the end be the sadder people - we have a life to live - i am slowly realising what an a**hole my h is and really i am better of without him and to be with some one who truly values and appreciates me . take care x

[tom m]

If things are definitely over, some organisations mediate and offer independent advice. Visit relate.org.uk , and http://www.dfes.gov.uk/marriageandrelationshipsupport/marsdir/index.shtml (http://www.dfes.gov.uk/marriageandrelationshipsupport/marsdir/index.shtml) for more organisations who can help.

regards,

tom

[Liz]

Don't bother to use the government address as all the useful organisations are on this site and our contact details are more up to date. For counselling look here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/counselling/). For mediation etc here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/whenover/).

Liz

[Springheeled Jack]

Cheers guys.

I think that fore the best way to deal with it is like with my first wife. She left, I greived for a while, picked my self up and dusted my self down.

For my second wife well, if she going to go then I cant stop her. Legally, she has to go of her own accord. Then she had "intentionally" made her self and her kids homeless. If I told her to go, it could be used against me. As her name is on the mortgage, getting a council place unless she is true to form and "lies", will be difficult for her.

She wont as Ive been told walk of with half as I can argue I sold my house to by this one. I can also argue that I want the money I put in the car, and also the money I paid for her Barclaycard Bill. Ive found all the documents to prove this.

This is a "getting ready to do battle" mode. IT reassures me that I do have the ammo to go to court with should the need arise.

The only person I feel sorry for is my Stepson, he regards me as his Dad.

When she goes, there will be enough people ie the Step Daughter from Hell and her cohort my sister in law. If my wife chooses not to have the sense God gave her and listen to them, there is little I can do.

Ive tried my hardest to save this marriage. At the end of the day "no one" can accuse me of not trying...

And the "lets be friends .." No chance No way. I wouldnt do what she is doing to a friend.

Jack

[Ashamed]

Jack

I am a man, so I can reply to you as a man. Number one, you are blaming your wife for all the trouble. That is hardly ever the case. Number two, just because you tell her you lover her, does not mean it convinces her in her mind and heart. She is telling you how she feels. Relate.

Why does she want to leave? I have read through your posts, and there is so much resentment in your words. You seem to think she owes you something Jack. She is her own person, and what she owed you was the truth. She gave you that. Have you been absolutely truthful to her about what you have been up to? If you have, good on yer mate.

I understand about being afraid, but all people are afraid. I'm sorry to sound direct, but you need to stop sitting here pouring your heart out to other women (married for that record) and get back to taking care of your family. If your wife does not love you, then accept it and start moving on. If you don;t love her, then admit it and make some decisions. I really think you are over-indulging your emotions. Yours is a saga, that neads an ending mate. Only you can make it end. That is your choice.

Before you accuse your wife of anything, just take a quick peek at how good a friend you have been to her over time. No, you are not a puppet on a string, or a helpless little man in the clutches of a remorseless woman. You are an adult. Adults make decisions. That is life. I am going to challenege you with these words: What are you going to decide Jack? Are you going to fetch your family or just let them slowly slip away, so you can be a victim? From what I have read in your words, you are an intelligent, strong man with a valuable, but soft, heart. Make your heart softer Jack, for your wife's sake. Let you mind settle down a bit. Thoughts are just that - thoughts. Get the facts so you mind and heart could be in harmony. If you truly love her, hear her heart and quiten your own. You are clearly have a "big" enough heart to allow her the emotional space she needs to be free to express herself without any reaction from you. Make that big heart work for you mate, not against you.

I know how you feel and it is like being tormented, but as a man I have to practice to keep the scary voices within my head. I hear your wife saying that it is up to you. Go and find out if it really is. Then you decide what Jack wants from life, and make a decision and live with it.

I apologise for being a bit more direct. I hope you accept my words in the spirit I have meant it, which is to point you in the direction of where you say your pain is originating from. You can't sort it here mate. Reality is where the emotions live and where we have no control, other than over ourselves.

Hope something I said makes sense to you.

With kindness.

[helenrw200]

Ashamed

I'm not a married woman and I don't think it matters what sex you are , when you're going through emotional pain, the same advice applies. Jack has tried hard to save his marriage, he may have "done things wrong " or may not, his wife may just not love him anymore.... it happens.

Jack has had advice from other men as well as women, and if pouring his heart out on here means he can cope with what's happening then I for one don't think that's a bad thing.............this is a message board for support after all !

Helen

[London]

Ashamed - I couldn't agree with your post more! Its funny, I was about to post something very similar today but you beat me to it. SpJack is about the drama and the empathy that this board is so good about - yet, never does he recognise his own responsibility or faults. Its always *her* fault - doesn't matter if it was wife #1 or #2 - they all owe him something.

SpJ - now that you are in "ammo" mode - you have effectively killed any good will towards this marriage. So how long do you carry on in your manless way? How long do you continue to try to "initiate" pathetic moments of "pity-sex"? Or carry on blaming everyone else for your misery?

Why is it that if she chooses to leave then she is wrong or not following the sense that "god" gave her. Have you ever heard of "free-will"? Or are you one of those people who feels like they know best for the everyone in a relationship with you. You know re-reading your posts, it does paint a picture of WHY your wife wants to leave you..... its not that there may be a better option out there - its that you are not an option to continue with.

[Liz]

I think that Ashamed had every right to say what he did - it was done very gently, and I'm sure that Jack will take it in the spirit it was offered.

Hopefully he will also be able to take what you have said, London, which isn't as gently expressed.

Liz

[helenrw200]

I agree with you Liz, ashamed did have every right to say what he did as do we all unless it offends. I do think however that he is incorrect to say Jack has only received advice from married women, he hasn't and I don't think Jack posting on here is necessarily a bad thing, providing it doesn't detract from his communications with his W of course.

jack has had a wide variety of advice from many people and in the end will cope with whatever happens however he can. I have become slightly concered for the state of his emotions in recent posts and hope that things will eventually become easier for him one way or another.

Helen

[Springheeled Jack]

Er esxcuse me Ashamed when you said

"you are blaming your wife for all the trouble. " can I put you right have you read any of my posts properly. My wife will abort a child if I get her pregnant. She told my parents that she couldnt wait to have my baby but AFTER we were married first.

AFTER the wedding she tells me she will abort the pregnancy. Am I to blame?

the only thing she owes is "honesty", she was less than honest before we married. That I find out to my cost.

And as to your challenge "You are an adult. Adults make decisions. That is life. I am going to challenege you with these words: What are you going to decide Jack?"

this IS my decision. I will try to the last day to try and salvage our marriage. I can tell her to go, THAT she has to do of her own free will. I cant stop her. When she does, I will not be in the house when she does. That would be just too much and taking the p***.

When she shuts the door on the house and our marriage. It will be her decision and not mine. I married for love, she married for money and security, and a father for her kids. Harsh I know but that is the bottom of in. Ive been told time and time again that was all she married me for.

I will not go after her, make my self an idiot, not my style. She never wanted me whilst she was in the house why on earth would I think she would want me them.

She betrayed not only me but my trust. She listened to people who's only agenda was to break us up. Its going to be hard being on my Jack again but Ill copy.

I appreciate your honesty Ashamed, from one man to another. I took what you said in the spirit of honesty and nothig more.

London - when you said "SpJ - now that you are in "ammo" mode - you have effectively killed any good will towards this marriage. So how long do you carry on in your manless way? How long do you continue to try to "initiate" pathetic moments of "pity-sex"? Or carry on blaming everyone else for your misery? " Oh my dear London I am very much the man.
Being in ammo mode is only trying to protect myself. MY wife made a decision. As for continuing "pity sex" that hasnt happened, as legally that is called "cessation of congical rights" if my wife decided to go down the legal route, then that as I have been told I can use. I would rather my wife "want to" now rather that "feeling she has to". That proves nothing and is meaningless.

London, at least Ashamed did as Liz said offer his thoughts "gently and I have taken it in the spirit as it was offered. You on the other hand were "harsher" (shame on you) in your comments.

Im no Angel, I did things wrong. When I said "for better of for worse" it mean alot to me if they didnt to my wife. Im not saying didnt do thing wrong. I trusted her.

I kept to my marriage vows, it is a pity that my wife didnt to the same as when she walks out the door at least I can look in the mirror and say ..

"At least it wasnt you Jack, you tried your best"

And ladies and Gentlemen I have done exactly that.

Jack

[London]

At least it wasnt you Jack, you tried your best

yes SpJ - I was harsh. But why sugar coat what it is? You admitted yourself a few weeks ago that you initiated sex with your wife and that "she didn't refuse". Couple that with a passionless marriage where she couldn't be bothered to even spend her b-day wth you or any other night with well, that my friend is the definition of pity-sex.

You say you "tried" your best... if that's what you believe, then that's all you'll need to sleep at night and get on with your life.

While its a shame to see a couple break up, I think in this case, it's now just a game....

[Ashamed]

My apologies to those I may have offended. Jack, I do not mean to speak into your life. I have no right to do that. All I am basically saying is..confront it head on..let the truth hurt and get it over and done with. Then let her go, so the next woman in your life (and off course there will be one) won't have to live with the ghosts. How to let go? That's the easy part mate..open your hand..and watch it drift off using its own energy.

Take a few private moments, open your hand and your heart at the same time and you'll see what will happen. Imagine you letting her go so she can be happy as she chooses to be. Imagine letting yourself go so you can be happy as you choose to be. Nature will take care of the rest. Accept and go with the flow my friend. Just accept. What else can you really do? Fight or drive yourself mad? Run away from yourself? Make friends with your shadows (your past). It is what makes you Jack. You were there when they were created. If they weren't there, you would not be Jack. It is what makes you a special individual.

If you have failed, then accept your own failure. Jack, I have two failed marriages and now a 3rd relationship on the rocks. Surely, I must be doing something wrong? Off course I am. Don't ask me what, but my "happy relationship" formula from childhood is simply not working for me.

Would it stop me from loving again and being passionate and to be whom I am? No it won't. I have tasted true love. I am indeed a lucky man. I have been alive like never before. Wow! I am actually doing real life - not fantasy! Real life is hard, and I would have it no other way.

I have my good points and mean no harm to others. I am not ashamed of being me. I can try again with another person. Maybe I'll find a woman who would want to stick around, regardless of my flaws. We all want to be loved and accepted Jack. That is nature. Nothing wrong in being honest about our psychological, emotional and physical needs. Eastern phoilosphy teaches rather simply: When hungry - eat and another thought, more deeper is: leaves fall.

Life is life mate. You are part of it - congratulations!

Living life does not make me a failure. Failing yourself is another matter altogether. Maybe youe xpect too much or too little of yoruself. I think we all do at times.

You can't make excuses for another's failure - it is out of your control. We cannot control others, life or love. We can only control ourselves if we try real hard. I am trying to give you a boost here mate. If you accept the failure of your marriage(s) and let it go..you'll be free. Does not mean because I am a failure at marriage that I am a bad person or a failure as a man. It just means I have a lot more to learn. My heart sits in the right place. Life will be complicated - unravel it a little more slowly - with patience and care. Leave the "fighting" for those who live quick and die quick. No good ever comes of fighting. One can confront without fighting. Just speak your heart's truth and let nature take its course. Accept nature - she sometimes wishes to save us a lot more pain than we already have.

As you sit there now Jack..just practice opening your hand and letting go. Carry on doing it till your emotions kick in. Let them come out and go. When you have had enough of doing that, go look in the mirror and tell yourself that you are all right, and that life is good and actually full of surprises. Try and break a smile. And if you get the doubts..start opening your hand again.

We are all valuable, vulnerable souls. We all have to complete our individual journeys. Mine seems to enjoy many experiences, and my heart is actually strong enough to take it. We are indeed properly equipped. We just need to figure out how to use our strengths and our natural tools.

I have been through the valley of the sahdow of death a number of times in my life Jack. Sometimes, I volunteered for the trip. I used to think I was stronger than what I really am. I used to challenge life, and life sorted me good and proper. My ignorance, arrogance and insecurities did not pay good dividends. Why invest in them further? I was running away..from myself. The day I stopped "running away", I personally started growing.

I have grown accustomed to keeping my own company, and liking it. As a preference, I would like a female companion to visit with - but I do all right without. Sometimes, we just try too hard Jack. We try to hard to impress, to make it work, to make the break up work and so on.

Lately, my most peaceful place is to give up in a way, and to watch how things work out. Sure, I would like to take my partner, remove the fig leaves from her eyes and make her see how much I love her. Just can't do that mate. Her life, her choices. That is what it means to have a relationship. One decides and the other gets impacted. Better to decide together. Therein lies respect. Go and decide together Jack - no matter what you decide. Make sure you feel that you have a say in the matter. Accept that you are not going to have your own way. Just go with the new landscape and see what good you can have from there. We, nobody, can earn or deserve love. Love is a gift..we hope life would bestow upon us.

May peace come to you more quickly than you can imagine and surprise you with 7 doors of choice. May your courage take you through those doors and may they all lead to a better future for Jack.

And all these words I have spoken, I have spoken to myself.

[Springheeled Jack]

"May peace come to you more quickly than you can imagine and surprise you with 7 doors of choice. May your courage take you through those doors and may they all lead to a better future for Jack."

Amen my friend Amen.

Ashamed, you didnt offend me, not in the slightest, as it went for a healthly debate. I know in the deepest part orf my heart my wife doesnt love me, she is at the house as she has no where else to go. I know it, she knows it. Now Im just a "walking wallet" to her. Get this, and please excuse the capital letters " SHE HANDED ME HER CREDIT CARD BILL AND ASKED ME TO PAY IT FOR HER TILL SHE GOT PAID!!"

I looked at it and nearly died "IT WAS £150 !!!" Like I said a walking wallet.

I did practice opening my heart. I took my self forward to her leaving. I took myself forward to the day after she leaves. It was hard. I did spend 7 years on my own, I did that once and Ill do it again.

When you said "so the next woman in your life (and off course there will be one) won't have to live with the ghosts. How to let go? That's the easy part mate..open your hand..and watch it drift off using its own energy"

Well let's hope there will be a woman in my life again, as for living with ghosts, they will be laid to rest after greiving, as it is a sort of "living bereivment". I have as you advised practised opening my hand, I so hope that one day when I close it that there will be a hand for it to hold.

But being a human soul that thrives on the "tactility" of a relationship, now starved, Im finding it hard, however, as my nan used to say "cross your fingers boy and hope for the best as God pays his debts without money.."

I know what she meant.

I do know and I do realise that my marriage is over. I now wish that my wife would "just leave" instead of prolonging the agony. She made the decision that sadly I had no choice over. Like I said before, I will not be in the house on the day she leaves, I know I will lose my dignity.

She should go like she came in to my life. One minute she was there and the next minute she was gone. As much as I hate my ex wife for what she did to me, at least she spared me the pain of watching her go. That at least I am grateful to her for.

London, this is no game, I can assure you. This is my life and my emotions both of which my wife has no regard over. Whilst she made the decision to leave, I am left with the pain, agony, and the loss.

Not to mention struggling with a mortgage etc.

If my wife asks the immortal line "Can we still be friends" , well what do you think I should say? Personally, apart from giving her a mouthful, it just will not work, as if she doesnt want me as a husband, I would rather not have her as a friend.

I value my friends.

Next time, and I so hope there is. I will choose wisely.

[London]

I do know and I do realise that my marriage is over. I now wish that my wife would "just leave" instead of prolonging the agony.



I said its a game bc of what you wrote right there - you know its over and yet rather than be a man about things, you'll play mind games with yourself and with her to see if she will "leave". Well, if there's a wallet here and now, do you really think that she'll leave as quickly as you'd like? Or are you in some way hoping that by continuing to "pay" for things and not "confront" her with your words you feel and know - "I do know and I do realise that my marriage is over. I now wish that my wife would "just leave"" - that that will make her stay? SpJ - YOU NEED TO BE ABLE MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOURSELF. Again, you say you cannot "stop" her or "make her do what she doesn't want" - but quite frankly, it seems like you can't even run your own life.......

[Springheeled Jack]

London, I can run my own life very well.

As to the mind games. I have sought legal advice (I may sound stupid, but Im not daft). A nd I quote

"Jack, if you tell her to leave then legally she can use that against you in a divorce, or in any legal proceedings. She can say that you threw them out.

However, if she went of her own accord then she volunatrily made her and her children homeless and she would find it hard to get a council property as her name is already on the mortgage."

I sought legal advice as I wander to know where I stand. My decision

I KNOW my marriage is done, Im not stupid London. If my W is going to leave then I just want her to get it over with so I can try and move on. My Decision. Im not going after her. My decision Ive more pride in my self. My decision

There will be NO lets be friends. My decision

So London no mindgames. Just me following legal advice.

…Again my decision