Where am I heading with this?

[tenguella]

I have been married for 9 years now. For the last 5 years or so, my wife has systematically rejected all my advances to cuddle, to kiss, to be close, to be intimate. She has never initiated any affectionate gesture or act once. We have a loving 5 years old kid. She wouldn't kiss me back. and I always find myself chasing her to find her lips during occasional lovemaking.. ie when she wants it.
What killed me is that months ago, she had it in her head that she wanted another child. To my surprise. for two days she was responsive to my cuddling in the bed and let me enter her... but nothing else.. no touching, no kissing, nothing... to a point that I was not enjoying myself despite -- sorry for being graphic -- not ending thrusting.... She kept avoiding my kissing or clinch her arms to her chest when I attempt o caress her..

Initially I thought that I should be patient and not expect a flip in behaviour and response overnight. The following day.. same astonishing response to my cuddling as long as I -- again forgive me for being graphic -- I enter her and lay my seeds. After that day, I've decided no to be patient anymore and confronted her... she was having sex with my organ and not me... she just wanted to get pregnant and.. she did!!
I adore my kid and had after that night decided to be happy no matter what and enjoy the many things in life that God gave me and that will make me happy.. with or without her.. I was needless to say DEVASTATED to find out that during that dreadful night.. she got pregnant.
My beliefs wont me allow to seek affection or sexual satisfaction elsewhere.. but I do believe and hope that I can gradually learn to substitute those needs with others that are readily fulfilled.

Am I dreaming? Am I still in denial or isn't this a more than obvious evidence of her not loving me?

I do not exist at all. She won't inquire about how I am feeling, about my needs, she turns down my demonstration of affection, of need for intimacy... not even sex.. just intimacy. I've read many postings.. but I seem to combine many of the problems at once... or maybe simply I must face reality and accept the fact that she loves me not and cant force it. We are tied because we have a wonderful kid together and I am happy to say that we BOTH are great and loving parent and are in that endeaavour together...

Sorry for the lengthy message but I needed to get it out. I would be grateful to share thoughts with you.

[ljohnson]

Have you tried praying with your wife? Have you been honest with her about how she is treating you? If she is still cold, I'd suggest some councelling.

[tenguella]

I have! I have been honest and frank about it.. but I think the problem is deeper than I had expressed it....

I do not get any attention from her.. unless she is in the mood. For years, she never attempted to get close. Love is -- we all know. -- about sharing, giving, providing whatever support is needed. I get none of that. I would occasionally be crippled with pain (chronic back/neck spasms that I can't get rid of) and she would never lift a finger to attempt to relieve my pain through massage or a simple... "are you ok?", or a caress here and there... Total disregard... Even when I have asked for it... she would show that she's annoyed... or when I go like.. "I don't understand how you can see me suffer with pain and not offer to do anything or even give me any kind of support... like a simple "hang in there!"...
To me these kinds of behaviour are not of one in love... no matter how hurt you have been... especiall since I have been nothing but nice to her.. SERIOUSLY.. I'm always here for her... I make it my goal in life to fulfill hers anyway I must. I don't mean to sound corny.. but I really do. I have never refused anything she desired, I always try to surprise her and do nice things.. blablabla I do my share of the chores.. (actually a lot more), I do not pressure her for sex.. I try to set the mood... blablabla.. The difference in my case.. I do not do all those things to trigger something or to go by the book... all these acts come natural to me. They were never pre-meditated with the hope of getting something in return. I still do those things.. I have been more than patient. It's been 5-6 years of feeling miserable, rejected, humiliated, insulted, not cared for.. except -- thank God by my son! She always used sex as a weapon. When I tried mre than a zillion times to have a talk and trying to figure out what I did wrong.. or what I can do better.. all I get in return is that I complain too much and made it un-natural for her to be ... natural. I bought that in the past and stopped making remarks or wondering why she is so distant to me, or why she seems to feel blue.. months passed, then years.. and gradually I got used to the possibility of being emotionally independent from her. I think I am reaching that point. It's been and still is hell but I have decided to change my perception of life if I can't control the things that I need to make me happy.. I will otherwise be happy with the many things I've been blessed with. It's not as easy.

I do hear you... about counseling... but I am not sure how possible and useful a joint one will be. I have written to her so many times.. the same things I would post her or repeat in front of a professional/therapist.. but to no avail.. due I think to the lack of honesty and fairness on her part... always pointing the fingers outwards... and I am so afraid that the damage has already been done...

Indeed... I have done everything possible and for all these years I have contained any resentment or bad feelings inside.. as I was of the thought the what I am fighting for is worth going to the rejection, humiliation, disrespect etc... whatever that would make my marriage work... unfortunately.. I was the only one with that goal. At this point, now, all the ignored/contained/muffled resentment has exploded and I am now feeling so much anger that I am not sure anymore what I feel for her.... Is it because I now am convinced (took me a long time!) that she doesn't deserve me, my love, my friendship, my affection that in my eyes nothing she can do can wipe out the damage or erase doubts... I dunno!?!? It looks like a losing position no matter what.... I am no so much confused.. but rather overwhlemed with negative feelings, disdain and am now in scorn with her...

The only thing keeping me around is my god-sent kid and the expected one... they need me now and they will in the future.

It does help to voice it out and again I really appreciate your attention and feedback. Thank you again... I'll try to keep my head up as they say.. http://www.askdeb.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[tenguella]

Folks,

For the last months, I made a new friend and she's very considerate, nice and had been a good therapy for me. I confided in her and she really helped me .. a lot. We have since then became very close friends and spend a lot of time together on the phone or having lunch....

fast forward months later,....

I had been in denial for a while now.. but I did get more and more attached to my friend and despite my resistance find myself.... in love with her! For the longest time, I refuted these feelings assuming that I was just confused and react this way to her generosity and attention towards me. I had lost the habit of meaning something to someone else. I was convinced that it was not love but just attachment.. a feeling that I had lost. Now I am more and more confused... and find it impossible for these feelings that I have, this warmth that I feel whenever we are having lunch together or talking on the phone, ... impossible for those sensations not to be real... love!. A forbidden love nonetheless! How can I shut that down? She's my only friend -- at the moment, and gives me sanity and helps me deal with the negative side of my marriage but just lending an ear to me. Common sense, and personal beliefs and values urge me to cut this friendship short as it is attempting to evolve into more (or has it already!).. on the other hand.. why should I make myself miserable by eliminating my only source of ... therapy. I am so frustated with the choices life is presenting at my face! ...:(

[disbelief]

My beliefs wont me allow to seek affection or sexual satisfaction elsewhere.. but I do believe and hope that I can gradually learn to substitute those needs with others that are readily fulfilled.

Has your moral grounding changed so much in less than two months?

I know you're in a lot of pain with respect to getting affection and feeling wanted/happy in your life, but please really think about the situation. There was no gun held to your head to have unprotected sex - you ultimately made that choice and with choice comes responsibility. Can you honestly say you have tried everything to break through with your W? Is it possible that she has a hidden issue with you or with someone else (eg. in her past) that needs to brought out? Most importantly, is she aware of this new friend?

Whether you realize it or not, this new love interest will further deteriorate any relationship you have with your W. Trust me, I've been on the receiving end and my W couldn't understand how I was on to her about having an affair. Intuition is a strong force - is it possible that your W has had a negative intuition about you prior to this (even if it was wrongly based)?

From what I gather, her affection toward you waned after your first born. Perhaps there's a large psychological factor at play here that needs to be recognized? Your W may have issues, but since you can really only control yourself I think this is where the focus should be at this critical juncture. You have an unborn child and this fact cannot be erased. You also have a son. Regardless of how you feel, I think the only sensible thing to do is put the brakes on hard and stop going down your slippery slope with this OW. Only then can you really think clearly and also convince your W that you are committed to her and your family. There's two sides to every story and I implore you to keep trying to find hers in all of this. There are other methods of therapy, and using this as a "justification" to venture into a forbidden relationship is dead wrong no matter how you cut it.

Best of luck with your decisions.

[tenguella]

I thank you for your frank feedback and valued points.... I do agree with you and have -- so far -- totally rejected and ignored my feelings! I do not want to dig deeper and conceal myself from the real problem. About my W, these problems started even before our first born, and I have always been loyal and faithful! I strongly believe in my values and will not -- let me rephrase... do not plan or wish to violate them.. as much as I possibly can. I can not, NOT acknowledge my feelings though. Coming back to your points, I have never given any reason for my W to suspect me of anything as I have never been disloyal or unfaithful in my entire life.... not even to girlfriends!.. but also, since we are being frank... I have never been this miserable. Let's be honest... I would have concluded with a divorce had it not been for my first kid.. and now even more.. for my unborn kid. On my part, I have tried anything in my power to save or restore this relationship.. but these are not the kinds of things you can do alone. It's been years of selfdoubt, humiliation, reject, disappointement, neglect than wore off any hope I had to save this relationship. I a of the conviction that partners should do whatever is necessary to save a marriage. We were married for better and worse.. and for years, I have sustained damage from the "worse" .. with the hope of the "better" part around the corner.. I've had more than my share of the "worse". Again, I've tried anything I could possibly to.. regardless of my own pride, self-respect and... honour... This would have been easy if it were only a sexual intimacy problem.. but it's worse!!! I do not have a wife, a partner or a friend. I am leaving with someone who has no interest in me, shows me no respect, no consideration, displays indiffference, neglect towards me, and would be this way to me .. and me only. My attempts to figure out whether or not I have done anything wrong, of trying to describe whatever it would take for us to have a normal relationship were all in vain. I have reached a point where my love no longer exists. I will never be able to forget all I had been through. It's not revenge or grudge.. it's erosion... irreversible erosion! I see no way out!

I will focus on being the best father I can and will remain a courteous and suportive partner.. despite her neverending disrespect, animosity etc.... I do have enough positive things in my life to concentrate on and be happy with... happy with ... or without her!... I deserve to be happy! I am a good person!... I am!... Regarding my friend, I talked about her.. yes.. she knows who she is.. but doesn't know that we are real friends.. not just acquaintances... my feelings are real... but forbidden. i'll be OK. I hope.. I will remain consistent to my values.. as long as I do not lose my insanity and joy of life... some of which is coming back.... once I realized I no longer love my W, nor do I want to.. she deserves me not!!!!

Thanks again.. this is really helpful! I can't tell you how much it helps me!

Cheers,

[disbelief]

Hi Tenguella,

I'm sorry to hear how abolutely degraded you feel in your relationship and that you're reaching a breaking point. It sounds as though frank communication is your only option. Have you expressed the true degree of your unhappiness to your W? If so, did she show any concern about it or outrightly refuse to acknowledge it? Will she not discuss her feelings with you? Have you taken the approach of asking what she finds negative about you (hey, we're all imperfect...) and then work from there? I understand how trapped you must feel, but please don't see this OW as an escape out of your situation (you sound quite sensible, so hopefully you've totally evaluated all of the negatives including family and financial).

Surely there must have been good qualities about your W that attracted you to her originally - has she completely deviated from these, or is there a chance they can be rediscovered? Please believe that this may not be as irreversable as you think.

Again, I wish you all the best.

Disbelief

[tenguella]

She indeed has totally deviated from what made me to want to marry her. I have at numerous times and every other 2-3 months attempted to sit down and calmly figure out what the problem is. I have prepared myself for these interventions.. I have made sure that I do not use an accusatory tone, or point finger... I have written to her those frank letters where I state how miserable I am, why I am miserable and listed all the things she does (or no longer do) that caue me to no longer be happy.. I always gave her time to hear me and refute or explain any of my points. I am not the type that tries to make up things to fight about. I state actual events and points she can't refute. The only sensible explanatioin of those points is her lack of love and attraction for me. I never wanted to hold that against her.. but here is my beef... You can't control your feelings.. they either exist or don't but!! you do control your actions. I read somewhere that loving is a verb... and action.. not a feeling. I could not agree more.... Passion and lust might have worn out (happens to most I heard...:)) but one's commitment to a relationship is reason enough to "love" your spouse... actions of love such as respect, affection (not necessarily sexual), support...
Coming back to your question... everytime I tried to have a frank and open communication, be it verbal or written, she always acknowledge that I did not make anything up.. but she'll end up saying this like:
-- you like drama
-- you are so immature.....(her favorite when she's out of arguments)
-- you complain so much that I can't be natural anymore....
I tried e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g.. I know that people say that very lightly... but seriously. I have! I have totally ignored myself.. my pride... I have let her reject me over and over and over again. Unless I initiate intimacy.. it'll never happen... whilst she makes sure she wears revealing and appealing clothing just to torture me. She is very manipulative.. as a matter of fact. She has not kissed me in the last 5 years!!!! When I kiss her, she moves her head away a second after contact!! this is just on the physical side.... I can live without sexual intimacy... I never separated sex and love... for me it was one and the same.. sex was an act of love.. before a physical need.... Sexual intimacy.. I had learned to live without... and was able to get my mind of it... HOWEVER.. even when I attempt to cuddle.. it feels like I am holding a trunk of wood. It had always been one-way!! I suffer from chronic neck and back problem... and a nice 2 minute massage will provide relief for the rest of the evening.... She would see me in pain.. sometimes groaning as I have acute pain.. she would not react or offer to help me relax.. not even a mere "are you OK?". Many times.. when I ask her for a massage while trying to stretch on the carpet crippled with pain.. she would either take her time.. like wait 30 minutes before coming or simply refuse!! ( I swear to you! I am not lying). I remember one day... a little over 1 year ago... I was so depressed.. I called her at work so that we could meet and just have a coffee or something.. and told her that I was very depressed.. so much so that I couldn't work.. (we work seconds from each other... on the same avenue).. and was so shocked when she replied... it happens.. and as I was so shocked.. and remained quiet.. she went on "OK.. bye!" and hung up on me!!
I am sure many of you -- by now -- are speculating that I must have done something terrible!.. I assure you that I have not! I am always nice to her.. always supporting my family emotionally, being here for everyone.. doing more than my share of the chores (yep! the usual culprit!).. offering to take her away on week ends to relieve stress, trying to be romantic (I am one of those hopeless-romantic).. there is nothing that I have not tried.. I gave her her space.. which means we'd go months without physical contact... she is very pleasant to everyone else... but me! I REPEAT I HAVE DONE NONE OF THE THINGS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE. Even when she's so hostile, rude, obnoxious, unconsiderate... I have never retaliated.. I would brush it off and just move on to the next day. Of course, in the past these would cause fights and would result in days of cold treatment. but nowadays.. I have decided no to let anything depress me or alter my mood.. I can't change it!.. I'll change my reactions to it and my perception thereof..At this point I just want to have a livable environment and figure out a way (and there's always a way!) to be happy.

I do not wish to go on and on listing all the paradoxical elements of my life.. but after these many years of persistence and patience... blocking of all the negative feelings and "abuse" I have been subject to... I have finally reached the "THAT'S ENOUGH!" point! and that's no joyride at that point. You feel all that pain/anger/humilation/pain/pain/pain you've been blocking all those years AT ONCE! It took my a while to "absorb" much of it.
To put it simply...any conduit of love for her has been totally eroded. There is nothing that can be rebuilt... well enough for me to forget everything that I have sustained all these years! Even if she were to have a 360 degree change... I would just get accustomed to it.. and not be as rude and insensitive as she always had been....but I will never forget and give her my love.... I have never stopped those acts of love and support one "owes" to their partner. I am here for her.. I do everything I can to help when she needs anything -- being pregnant and all.... I have stopped approaching her ( with the 90% odd of being rejected!.. ) for the last 6 months. I have stopped trying to cuddle with the "trunk of wood".. or wasting kisses and the like.... Of course.. not once has she tried to initiate anything!!! but hey.. it's been like that for years now.. If I don't try it... nothing will happen.... I was serious by the way about that 90% rejection rate.. actually.. it's more like 96%. and I did compute this! :) for a long enough period....
Regarding my friend... I need her... I will not complicate things... there is true love between friends too.... love.. but love only.. no love --> sex. Some of you probably are smiling.. "yeah right!".... but that's all I got now. I need my sanity.... and she (and this forum) are the only support I got!.. I believe I can respect that boundary that her and I should not violate.... Pray for me and wish me luck! :). I have other things in life I can enjoy and be happy as a result. I will not lose track of that. I have a wonderful kid.. and another one on the way.. I'l do whatever is necessary to give them a stable environment. She has been a good mom and I'd trust my kids lives in her hand.. so not all is negative... right?! :)

Cheers and thanks for your support.. It really helps me a lot! Sorry about the lenghty reply!.. :)

[disbelief]

Hi Tenguella,

Sorry for not responding sooner - my own life has been in turmoil for the past while! From what I read, saying you're at the end of your rope is an understatement! It sounds like you're W is just "going through the motions" at this point with her concern and attention to you absolutely dulled. Your writings are very dramatic, which I'm sure is triggered by all of your feelings (in this sense, I can see how the "you like drama" line may be used by her). Would you say the ONLY reason you're staying at this point is for the kids?

I suspect any attempt to talk further with your W can only make things worse for both of you as you're boiling over and she's feeling bombarded with your emotions. Maybe the thing to do here is to completely ease off - stop focusing so strongly on the issues - become more independent and pay more attention to yourself and your place in the world both inside and outside of the home. Stop your advancements and discussions on feelings with her. Maybe this will break the routine and really get the wheels turning for both of you. If you can keep your friend/support at arms length, that would be great, but I suspect this can turn into more or serve as a distraction quite easily.

Anyways, keep posting and I really do wish the best for all of you!

Take care.

[tenguella]

Hello again, I hope things get better with you too.. I agree that my writing is dramatic.. but not because I like drama... it's simply because what I am describing is dramatic.. and I could not sugar-coat it... I have completely eased off.. at times.. and now done it for the longest time.. but with the same results. In reality, she is so manipulative.. and instead of being happy to have a man who loves her and always wants to cover her with attention and affection.. she let that gave her some sense of power and she abused that power. Everytime I ease off.. she will also ignore me as long as I am in "Ease -off mode" and by that I do not mean ignoring her.. or being cold. That led me no where... actually. She probably is frustated and no longer have feelings for me.. but since we are stuck together and she obviously does not want a divorce.. although there is no financial impediment to it.. she makes us much as I do and we have enough assets to split among us.... It seems that for the same reason I have decided to endure this.. she doesn't want to create instability for our son...(and the coming one). That being said... knowing that we are "Stuck" together.. why not make the best out of it. I once written to her that I have no problem leaving with a roommate wife.. if that's all I could hope for.. but we'd have to agree on that and redefine our relationships and more importantly ... expectations. Frankly... I've had it! She would devote more creativity and efforts in trying to hurt me or get me upset than she would even in trying to be pleasant and courteous... that is just a nonsense! I expect nothing anymore.... why not be courteous an civilized? I have made this point to her over and over again.. but all she wants to do is vex, irritate or frustate me, and she is always rude and obnoxious!... and only with me! I tried to talk about (i) what could I have possibly done? - I even told her.."whatever you tell me I will accept it and focus on fixing it.. I will not argue.. I just want to know" (ii) how to fix it if I did anything? (iii) where do we go from here?.... and for years without any results... I no longer know what to do. I have ruled out divorce.. although we are essentially separated.. emotionally... I guess there is nothing else to do.. just focus on my kids, my life and strike her out of my mind... I am not short-sided.. but I really do not see any other outcome! It's hard, even impossible to ignore disrespect, provocation forever... but I'll try. :)

Cheers and thanks for your wishes....

[poppy]

Hi T. I've read through all your posts and sympathise with you. It can be very destructive when two people want entirely different things and especially if one loves, and this is not returned. But all the time I was reading your posts I kept feeling also how smothered and desperate your wife must feel too. My guess is that all she really wants is the children and a life of her own with them. Sadly this happens to a lot of women when they have children as the kids fulfil any need in them to love and nurture. The man becomes effectively redundant. I think that's what's happened here, particularly bearing in mind your wife's determination to get pregnant again.

I think you are wrong to hang on in there come what may. You sound like a bomb just waiting to go off and this could end in disaster for everyone. What you are proposing is to try to compartmentalise parts your life, your emotions and your relationship This won't work, as eventually the anger and frustration will boil over. Perhaps what you do need is some space and time away where you can bring some level of objectivity in to this. Right now in your emotional turmoil, you are not necessarily doing what is best for your child and the one to come. You all deserve some happiness and normality. I don't think you'll find this along your chosen path. Just a few thoughts you may want to consider.

[sevenseas]

T;
I have to agree with Poppy, I'm not saying divorce, but maybe some "space."
Have you ever asked her point blank "do you want to be on your own? do you want a divorce?"
You talked about detachment, but her manipulation, all in the same paragraph...if you are giving in to her manipulation, then you are not detaching. And no, I am not talking about ignoring either. When she does something that you recognize as manipulation, you simply state that you will not stand for it.
Do you think the children are going to truly benefit from being raised in a home with tension you can cut with a knife? From you they will learn that you let people walk on you, disrespect you, and place your happiness in others' hands. From her they will learn to disrespect, to bottle up feelings and emotions, and to manipulate...
That being said T, I can also relate to your wife somewhat because I have problems with intimacy as well, although not to the same degree. But I have rejected my ex-boyfriend in the way you describe, and also my husband...I am in counselling and we are working on it. So far some of the reasons that have come out are; as a teenager, I used my body for attention, most of the time got used by the boy and felt worse and worse about myself (I was used the first time I had sex at age 14, he literally did it,then walked away..it was like a joke to him - not good). Another reason we came up with was the way I would begin a sexual relationship with a man was to make it all about HIM...all about HIS pleasure and not mine. I would not ask for what I wanted because I didn't think I deserved it, I figured he didn't really WANT to please me, and that it took to long for him to bring me to climax. And finally, with my husband, the fact that he didn't want to have children, I think played a major part in it...everytime we had sex I was reminded of our decision, and deep down I was not happy with that decision...I felt robbed of what true, deep, love was about.
Anyway, my point in all this is that I truly believe your wife is fighting a demon from her past here...something happened.
Did you ever feel complete love from her??? in the beginning??
The nicer you are to her, the worse she feels about herself, and therefore, the more she will lash out at you, and the cycle continues....
Is there anyone else that she might be confiding in? a sister or friend, that you could talk to as well expressing your concern?? (not to give details, just to express your concern at how unhappy your W seems to be) maybe they could help you intervene.
Remember, you teach people how to treat you, and you have LET her treat you this way, that is why she continues...
All the others were right in telling you to stay far away from that other woman.....disaster is knocking at your door my friend.
BUT, perhaps if you were to let you wife in on the fact that you felt an attraction to someone else and that it made you afraid and worried...perhaps it would open her eyes...but maybe not.
I also would suggest you get some counselling yourself. It can't hurt and it may help you to "detach with love" in a constructive way.
One more question... is there alcoholism in your wife's past or present? a parent, grandparent, sibling or friend even? She sounds like (but I'm not saying that she is!!) and Adult Child...if you want to know more about that you can ask me. but I will leave it at that for now.
Also, you sound like a spiritual man...how is your wife's spiritual life? Pray, it will help.
Take care.

[sevenseas]

I'm just bumping this because, even though I posted a new reply it was still showing that there were no new replies and I really want the poster to see my response...this has happened before, am I doing something wrong when I post that it doesn't show up as a new response????

[London]

sevenseas - it doesn't show up as a new response to you because you posted it and looked at it in the same session.


tenguella


She would devote more creativity and efforts in trying to hurt me or get me upset than she would even in trying to be pleasant and courteous... that is just a nonsense! I expect nothing anymore.... why not be courteous an civilized? I have made this point to her over and over again.. but all she wants to do is vex, irritate or frustate me, and she is always rude and obnoxious!... and only with me!


Its obvious why she does that - she's frustrated at the fact the only option she has is to "stay" with you - its obviously NOT a situation she wants yet she doesn't want to get divorced. It seems she's projecting her anger and frustrations that she has with her self onto you.

That is why, as sevenseas and poppy mentioned, it's not going to be a healthy way of moving forward. You need to sever ties, emotionally and physically and get out of sight for a period of time. While you want to be with her, she doesn't want that, so you'll hav eto accept that your marriage is over. By pretending you can "live with her as room-mates" under the current emotional baggage you are not giving the relationship any chance to heal itself and move to another healthier level.

[tenguella]

hello everyone.. sorry for the late reply. I was "internet-impaired".. :). I do agree with all of you... I really do. I do thank you for your frank feedback. I don't think I am a time bomb ready to go off. at this point in my life.. I really no longer have those feelings for her.. and I do not want them back!.. She does not deserve my love or feelings.. The most I'd ever give her is my support -- which I owe her.. being the mother of my kids. I really really really loved her!.. but ...now... oh well..
I "went off" on her last night actually.. as she was very rude and obnoxious.... I let her know that no more will I allow her or anything she says get me upset or annoyed. I did qualify her behaviour as stupid and idiotic. I told her.. "we got married for better or worse and I've got my share of the "worse"... I've had it with the "worse".. I've had it with you".. you no longer mean anything to me anymore.. hope you are happy now..".....

She knew that I meant it... She knew that one thing about me.. I'll endure as much as I possibly can as long as I believe I have a reason to.. but once I say "ENOUGH".. I never look back. She DOES know that about me.. and that it's real and irreversible.... (she's witnessed this with other events in my life involving other people).... She actually kept quiet after that...

The morning after.. she was more 'civilized' and to my awe and surprise.. was even trying to start conversations with me.... (?)... She could tell that I was not interested.. but she persisted... I've nodded politely at times.. and never engaged in and walked away.. but I don't know what she intends to do... or why she is like this...

Coming back to your comment, sevenseas, about intimacy.. in my case.. I just happened to marry someone who discovered she has some power... some weapon: sex.. and decided to abuse it.. and things escalated and exploded from there. I have endured this for over 7 years.. during which I did not feel loved (I am not whining! guys).. but I did not.. I felt rejected.. actually I was rejected more than 9 times out of 10 whenever I approached her... she would flinch or push me away all the time... yet doing everything to tease and entice me to approach her (sexy lingerie that -- maybe I am the only one -- I assumed one wears when they are in the mood , or at least open to eventual intimacy.. just sick manipulation for her own ego). Whenever we had a fight.. I noticed she would start wearing and parading in those irresistible lingerie outfits the following days... ... anyway!! enough with the sexual stuff... that was the least damaging... What I never could accept is her lack of support, affection, compassion for all the things I've written a few lines above..

Be it as it may that she felt content with love and nurturing from our kid..rendering me redundant... it won't explain her lack of support when I needed it, compassion when I needed it. ... or asked for it.

Be it as it may that she had a chronic and serious problems with intimacy.. still won't excuse her lack of respect and consideration... let alone sexual manipulation.

Be it as it may that she is letting her frustation(s) for whatever reason on me.. I tried to give her support in any way shape or form...tried everything in my mind.. in every book I read or internet page I read on the subject.... to no avail... I 've always been nice to her...

I've been good to her.. I've been in relationships before.. and always made an effort to make people around me comfortable, happy, at peace... well... fate has a way to smile at you either with a fortune.. or bad joke! I think I have inherited the latter... Some genuine love was wasted and irreversibly eroded away... her loss! It's been hard for me to reach this point.. it took years.. it was painful...it left scars... but I reached a point where I am no longer crying for not getting the love / support / affection / intimacy / respect / tenderness/etc.. I so deserve.. but rather.. I came to the realization that love can't be forced.. but also that love is also vulnerable.. and can die! Mine did!.. once mine for her died..as a result of erosion... it no longer made me miserable.
Yes! My marriage is over... and I am OK with it. I actually feel good at the moment... I have been able to focus on the many things I am blessed with... Being happy with what you got!.. and it's working for me.

I'll just see what the future reserves for me.. for us... I have kids to raise and protect.

It's nice to be in love.. you live and savour that feeling of being in love.. whether it's returned or not in some cases!.. and that can be nice.. :)... but when that un-returned love somehow deceases.. you are off the hook of misery! :). It took a while in my case.. but unequivocally did! My son, my friend, my family, my job, my many hobbies will keep me busy and... happy.. I am NOW sure of it!

I could not thank you all enough for the support, wishes, advice and listening..

May we all find hapiness!

Cheers,

[disbelief]

Hi,

From your words, this certainly seems like a logical conclusion. I sincerely hope your future is much better - with or without your W. All of you will obviously be on an emotional rollercoaster for the next little while, so take care of yourself and try to maintain composure no matter what. Keep posting to let us know how everything goes - we're here for you....

Disbelief

[tenguella]

Thanks a lot! D. The hardest part was for me to come to grip with that reality. Now that I have absorbed that fact.. I hope things will be easier to bear. Thanks again for everything!


Cheers

[tenguella]

still alive!.... hanging in there.. She's almost due... Things did not get any better.. quite the opposite..and it's not just the hormones.. but I have learned to brush off what I can't change or wanna deal with. There are better days than others.. but other than that.. same disgusting situation. I am coping thanks to the support of my friend... I try not to think too much about all this.. as I can't change it and am stuck for a variety of reasons.. none the least of which my son and the expected baby...as that famous line goes....

what are you gonna do? ;)


Cheers

[disbelief]

Hi Ten,

Sorry to hear your situation hasn't improved, but happy to hear you're coping in your own way. Hopefully the prospect of your new child is a positive thing for you, regardless of how you feel about his/her mother. I also hope your dedication to your kids has its own special reward for you, both now and in the future.

I guess the best thing you can do is find things to make you feel "unstuck", whether it is through some sort of personal enlightenment or finding some time here and there to do the things you enjoy. I really hope things brighten up for you in time.

For now, I wish you all the best with your soon-to-be new arrival!

[tenguella]

It's been ages since I posted here... Well we have a new baby boy.. four months old now. It's been quite a tumultuous three months. A month after my son was born, my younger brother passed away so unexpectedly and I was devastated by it but thank God was able to cope and accept the decision of the almighty... my marriage is not any better... quite the opposite! Just as I thought that things could not get worse... I now find myself in front of an evil person who would not hesitate to use the kids to get to me by trying to interfere litterally everytime I try to do anything with them. I must shield them from this 'feud' and not let them be subject to all this nasty exposure.. but there is so much I can take! I do want to be part of my kids life. unfortunately may have to leave this area altogether when comes the time to separate... the mere thought of the expected fight for custody fills me with disgust. The ideal would be joint custody with both of us in the same city.. being civilized people to one another. It's so much easier that way I thought... but noooooo no no no.. she has to be make my life (and everyone's around her) as disgusting as possible.. to what avail.. I still dont know. Sometimes, I wished my kids were older.. I would have then simply divorced her and would have already formed that.... bond with my kids.. and would see them frequently.. with some joint-custody arrangement. Now they are only 6years old and four months.... I feel trapped.. I do not want to subject them to the fighting and the mess, I do not want to be detached through the acts of their mother if I leave now, I do not want to endure this nonsense any longer than necessary... what a life!!!

[tenguella]

How do I prepare kids for a divorce? That's been bugging me.. How could I possibly tell a 6 year old in terms he can understand?