How would you have reacted?

[Springheeled Jack]

Me again!

4 months ago I book two tables for my wifes birthday and anniversary.
She then cancelled at the last minute the birthday meal, so I suggested the cinema.
She asks me to see whats on and this I do.
She changes her mind, at the last minute and doesn’t want to go..
5. She then has a bitch fit over the present and the card and her birthday cake. Not thinking that I was shouldering the house hold bills as she lost her job.

She “neglects me “ (nothing new there) for weeks.
Last night she tells me that she is going out on Saturday and going to a dance, as her friend calls her and asked her to go.

She is taking my step son to his nans for the night, my step daughter is staying with her boyfriend, and my wife is stayingout till all hours!

She said next week she is going to London for the weekend!

Guess why I got upset? The long and the short of it is, I arrange a meal for her birthday, she cancels it, so I suggest the cinema, she says ok, and then cancels she gets a telephone call and shes off like a shot!!

What would your reaction have been!!

[jellybelly]

Springhealed Jack,
There must be a reason she is not wanting to spend time with you. Especially not special occasions. Who is she going to London with? Could there be another person.
cheers, Jellyb

[Springheeled Jack]

Ive thought that, but how on earth do I prove it?
I cant throw wild accusations around, especially if Im wrong?
My wife puts everyone first and Im second fiddle, and Im supposed to be her husband.
We are struggleing financially and Im supposed to play stupid when she say "Im off to a dance and you aint coming with me" Whaton earth and I supposed to think?

I complained that she wasnt spending time with me, but it is fallling on deaf ears and she makes me out to be unreasonable.

Tomorrow evening is going to be awful, because at the back of my mind...

[disbelief]

Hi Jack,

How are you holding up? Have there been any further developments?

I totally empathize with your position - being ignored by your spouse is very hard and can't continue in a sound marriage. I went through much of the same events as you and eventually discovered an affair. This may not be the case with you, but one of the biggest indicators is your gut feeling. I think all you can do is be vigilant and try to talk things out as civil as possible to drill down to the truth about her feelings towards you (asking if there's another person in the picture is pointless as this will always be met with flat denial regardless).

I hope things turn around for you. Take Care.

[London]

Ive thought that, but how on earth do I prove it?
I cant throw wild accusations around, especially if Im wrong?
My wife puts everyone first and Im second fiddle, and Im supposed to be her husband.
We are struggleing financially and Im supposed to play stupid when she say "Im off to a dance and you aint coming with me" Whaton earth and I supposed to think?

I complained that she wasnt spending time with me, but it is fallling on deaf ears and she makes me out to be unreasonable.

Tomorrow evening is going to be awful, because at the back of my mind...

SJ - How do you prove it? Ask her - point blank - not in an accusatory way, but in a concerned manner. You point out to her that she makes you feel like you are "second fiddle" and that even when you show her signs of affection, she spurns you, and especially more so on special occasions when the two of you should be celebrating together. You should ask her about what she thinks about the two of you together and if there is somebody else in the picture - again, don't *accuse* her of anything. See what she says at that point.

Anyways, that weekend was a while back, and as disbelief asked, has there been any progress or new developments?

[Springheeled Jack]

Dear disbelief and london

Being "2nd fiddle isnt nice", and that is what I am. Or I feel that I am. In my marriage its "wallet open Good lad Jack" or "wallet closed Bad lad Jack".

Guys if I am wrong in this, that my wife is on the brink or having an affair, then Im finished. I need good concrete stuff that she is. Even asking her out right, she can lie!

As for new developments, well she told me to get used to it as she is going to go out alot more. Next week end she is going to the same night club again with her daughter.

So it looks like I have to "book an appointment" to see my own wife. I have told her that Im 2nd fiddle and Ive even told her that our sexlife is a joke, if I dont initiate it nothing happens. I dont mean to be frank but last time was the 31st May this year and it was me that did the initiating.. That is so frustrating.

I dont really want to get obessive about this but how can this be explained, Ive copied and pasted the clues of an affair from this website with my responses:

Pulling Away: when you sense your partner pulling away—creating an emotional distance between you (because they now need to protect a secret).

*Our sex life had diminuished. It is very “infrequent to almost one a month. My wife makes no attempt to initiate lovemaking, She doesn’t hug me, or hold my hand

Changes in Normal Patterns of Behavior: spending more time away from home, paying more attention to their appearance, being less attentive, being less (or more) interested in sex…

*My wife has paid more attention to her appearance. She went to work, in a more that revealing top (220505). She is “less attentive to me, neglecting me to a point where it gets worrying. As for sex she is so not interested,

Comments or Actions that are "Out of Character:" making casual comments about new, unfamiliar interests or acting in unfamiliar ways (like becoming more outgoing, less serious).

*After three years to gether she is developing a “taste” for going to black night clubs with her frriends and staying out to 4 in the morning.

Being Irritable, Vague, Distracted, "In Their Own World:" ignoring or criticizing any effort you make to question their actions or even engage them in discussing personal issues.

*My wife is getting very inrrtatible with me, and she so critizes me. When I asked her about the night club, she refused to tell me till she was just about to go out of the door. Befroe hand she “cancels” two things I had arranged to which she knew about. Days after she cancels she gets a telephone call to go to thi night club and “she accepts”. She doesntt tell me where I know nothing about it, til she leave through the door.

I offer to pay her taxi fare home. She says No as she is going straight her mothers as she might drink.

When she comes back the next day I ask her how she got back to her mothers from the night club. She said she drove there….

Er why couldn’t she have driven back to our house , as she knew how I felt..

Im not imagining it. Ive keep a record of the time she does spend with me and it isnt a lot. Now that she has her "new found night club" friends, she told me that shes of next week to the night club.

How can she just abandon me like that and not expect me to say anything? Going on a Saturday and staying out till all hours and coming back the next day, and not expect me to say anything.

We've two big house hold bills this month. and only me to pay them as my wife has just started a new job, I thought a marriage was supposed to be a partnership. I cant afford to go out like my wife does.

Why cant she see what she is doing. If she is having an affair, how do I survive that?

Jack

[jellybelly]

Jack, who are these friends she going to the clubs with. Have you entertained the idea that the other person isn't a man. Maybe that is making it even harder to tell you. Just a question I get when reading your posts.

cheers, JellyB

[Hope]

I can understand why you're reluctant to ask your W if she's having an affair because as you say she can lie! My H lied for 2 years. He pleaded and even cried whilst he denied it even after I'd found a photo of the woman in question..... so yes you're right, asking may not get you anywhere! As the 2 years progressed I found little clues and confronted my H but he still denied it all and said that I was imagining it all and I felt as though I was losing my mind.... when I think about it all I just think his behaviour was plain and simply cruel. The one thing that didn't change for myself and my H was sex. If anything he wanted more.... what a rotten swine and how used I felt!

Anyway there's not much point me ranting on about my failed marriage but I do sympathise with you. I guess the only way you will get to the bottom of it all is to try to look for the clues and follow them up.... sounds a bit crazy but how else do you discover the truth? My H became a fabulous liar and so convincing.... however I do hope that your suspicions are wrong because it would be very sad to hear of yet another separation on this forum.

Take care
Hope

[Debbo]

Hi Jack,

To me it sounds as if your W is bored with you and bored with your marraige.

Maybe she's not getting some her needs met and she's seeking some real excitement in her life.

I would talk to her and ask her what's wrong. Try to be open and honest with her.
Let her know that her actions are hurting you and your marraige.

But also be prepared to do some changing too.

It may be that she's looking for someone to fulfill needs that you are not fulfilling.

A good book on this subject is "His needs, Her needs" by Willard F. Harley, Jr. How to affair proof your marraige.

Might be worth checking out.

My husband and I read it together and put some of the things pertaining to us to work in our marraige.

I wish you well and pray that she is not having an affair as you are suspecting.

Deb

[Springheeled Jack]

Clues:

My previous post mentioned some of the clues.

Sex well thatis a non started. I do all the initiating, but even as something as simple as a good cuddle. In bed last time I tried to cuddle my wife, all I got was "move! you arein my space!!"

I dont know what to do now.

What I have done, Ive set up a speadsheet monitoring when we do have sex, that dear friends is so terrible for me to do. Also when she do go out together and when my W goes out and what time she comes back, just so I can see for myself. If it goes as far as seeing a solicitor then they can see. I dont want it to go that far, I really dont. Cant she see what she is doing??

Debbo, as for changing, I will do what ever I need to do, change what ever I need to change for her. I love her that much. What ever it takes.

But shouldnt she do some changing? What should it always be me. What gives her the right to think hat she is blameless?

What about my needs? What about them? Are they not just as important as hers are? I will talk to her I will try to chose my momment. Even if I have to reherse what Im saying to her, I cant afford to make any mistakes now.

Hope how do I discover the truth? Apart from keeping a record of her going out, hope many times we are intimate. The last time was the 28th May, a month ago today.

I feel horrible keeping that sort of record, but what else to I do. On one hand it shows what she is like and on the other how she is neglecting me.

I will try to talk to her. Her actions are hurting me and our marriage. She has no regard for either. The words a friend used was "She taking the p***."

Harsh words dear friends, but true. She is, but is all lost? How do I get my wife to be intimate again? How do I get her to realise what she is destroying?

I love her and I do want to lose her, but it is so looking like that......

Jack


Jellybelly, I have entertained the idea that the other person isnt a man.

[Debbo]

Jack,

I'm so sorry that you're having such a rough time with your wife and her decisions.

I know how you must feel about who needs to do the changing. But that is the real issue here.

If someone doesnt start though, maybe nothing will ever change.

I know you must feel like you are in this marraige all alone and that she's not making any effort. But can I suggest that you try something different to start changes happening.

You know, Change begets change.
If you start changing some things, she will have to do some changing too. It's a chain reaction.

Maybe you might want to try romancing her in some way before inticiating intimacy.

Buy her something she really likes that will put a smile on her face, take time to talk to her, maybe put some romantic music on and spend some time dancing with her.

Build her up, by, telling her how great she looks, how much you love her, how much she means to you intimately.

Do something out of the ordinary to surprise her. Something you've never done before.

There are lots of books out there on how to romance your wife. Get a book to help you with some ideas.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that women like to feel that they are more to you than just a person to have sex with. They really need to know that they are appreciated as your wife, lover and friend. And they really, really need romance!!!!

Try it. It might work.

As for the changing of yourself or her changing. I guess you need to ask yourself, how much do you want to be with her and what are you willing to change to make it work?

I'm sorry, but probably at this time, she's not going to be willing to change if she is disillusioned with you and with your marraige. Maybe she needs to know how much you really want her.

This is going to be a big decision for you and I wish great wisdom in it.

As for keeping track of your intimate times together and her outings without you. I would definitely rethink that if I were you.

She might "be" having an affair and that would definitely be devestating to you but, what if she isnt? And what would you do if you found out that she was? Would you leave her? Try to make it work anyway? Or what?

If she isn't having an affair it would not improve your image in her sight to know that you were keeping track of those things. It would give her reason not to trust "you".

Have you tried talking to her yet?

Deb

[Springheeled Jack]

Ok keeping track of our intimate times together etc might not be the smartest thing to do but it shows that Im not imagining it. Especially if it goes down the divorce route. I so hope it doesnt. My W doesnt know I keep track, my computed file is on my computer on my work desk.

What else do I do?.

If she told me that she was having an affair (I would be gutted and devastated, how would we surviuve from that. How could I trust her, knowing some bloke has had his hands on my W? I havent confronted her as she make not and it could be my imagination.? Ive run senarios in my head about what I would do if she told me or I found out. Finding out would be a nightmare. I would confront her then. If she was brazen enough to tell me then she would have a choice me or him, if it was me then we would have to sit down and work at our marriage properly. If it was him then it is a case of "dont let the door hit you on your backside on the way out"

I wouldnt leave her, Ive no where to go, She would have some explaining to do. She would get a choice or an ultimatum, "what is it to be. Recover from this and rebuild our marriage. Or you leave, if you leave then go with the thought that you betrayed me, like you promised that you wont" That makes it worse as she promised that she would never do that. My marriage vows meant a lot to me and being a God fearing church going man I have kept to them. KNowing that she had been with a nother man, would be devastating. IT would be for any cheated on husband.

It would be either me or him. That simple.

However, at the momment Im jumping at shadows. My W is displaying EVERY sign that she is having an affair. Some times I think that it would be best if she comes right out and tells me then I would know nd then I could deal with it.

I need concrete proof before I confront her. I cant throw wild accusations about.

I wish that our sex life could improve. The last time was the 28th May. Even then it was me that initiated that. If I didnt, noting would happen. Im not the kind of man tha twould force my attentions on a woman, that is nasty, I would do it because then that would false. I cant engineer something to suit my own needs. I desperately need my wife affection is that wrong. She never hugs me, it is always me giving her a hug, or a cuddle.

Our sex life is a joke. How can I improve it? How can I get it a cross to my W, that ok sex isnt everything but it goes along way to mending things. How much longer do I have to wait for my wife to initiated lovemaking. I have tried since but she just spurns me. I try once and then she does spurn me I leave it. I dont keep on doing it. I try again another time.

I just cant get it out of my head that she is either having an affair, tempted to have one, going to. What other explaination is there for the way she has been acting?

Jack

[London]

I wish that our sex life could improve. The last time was the 28th May. Even then it was me that initiated that. If I didnt, noting would happen.
...

Our sex life is a joke. How can I improve it? How can I get it a cross to my W, that ok sex isnt everything but it goes along way to mending things. How much longer do I have to wait for my wife to initiated lovemaking. I have tried since but she just spurns me. I try once and then she does spurn me I leave it. I dont keep on doing it. I try again another time.

I just cant get it out of my head that she is either having an affair, tempted to have one, going to. What other explaination is there for the way she has been acting?

Jack

Sex, sex, sex, sex. For a chap who keeps saying "sex isn't everything" you sure are obsessed. The fact that she isn't initiating "love-making" with you is becuase it is clear she is just not interested in you. Why can't you deal with that as a fact and start talking to her about it. How much more proof do you need that your W doesn't fancy you (for whatever reason)? Until that aspect is resolved, don't expect any advances from her - and if you keep "initiating" (wc is just another way of being pushy and demanding) then either she will flat out say NO (or a reasonable facsimile thereof), or will just go through the motions - is that what you want?

[Springheeled Jack]

Dont you think I know that London. As frustated as I am Im not about to jump on her. Ive never been that sort of bloke. I have tried to initate, she has spurned me, I dont rety they and then I just leave it.

I just wish she would open open and tell me what was wrong.

Yresterday I wrote down exactly how I feel and I quote from it
.....

" What I fear I create"I heard that phrase watching Dr Phil. It means what I fear most, I “make happen”.

Yes, I have replayed the events since that Thursday if I couyld have reacted differently. I added together you “cancelling” your birthday meal , you cancelling the cinema I suggested, and mixing in the way you had been treating me over the past month or so. You had been neglecting me, at times I was suffering from “frost bite” you were so cold towards me. You were dismissive with me, Id ask you a simple question and get my head bitten off. Every time I tried to put romance back, you shoved me away or froze. Even something as simple as a “cuddle”, of which you don’t do, it is always me. As our love life was also “suffering”. I started to put 2 and 2 together (ok so I made 5, never was good at maths).

Getting that phone call after you cancelled with me, and off you went, well that only served to fuel my “BF” (Bitch fit). How do you think that I felt. Don’t worry I wont get a taste for BFs. As there will never be a repetition of my reaction like that. It was a Hugmonus learning curve in all areas. I learnt 3 valuable lessons.
…
At least you know now I’m “no robot”. I did ask questions instead of accepting what you told me. I suppose I “overdid it”. IT wasn’t you going out , that bothered me, sometimes I wonder why you don’t. I know you don’t believe me and I cant do anything about that However the way you reacted to me made me feel like I wasn’t that important, that cancelling me was no big deal. It was the way you went about telling me.

I should have just shut up it would have been quieter, it would have been easier But isnt it better to tell you how I felt instead of “hiding it”. Im no robot remember.

It didn’t help matters that I began remembering how it was before. A sort of “here we go again Jack,” I shouldn’t do that, I know I shouldn’t and I wont . Perhaps the good thing about Saturday was you forced me to face up to demons that I wanted to avoid. Pity I had to face the two legged kind too.

You called it insecurity, No, perhaps it was a sort of psychological self harm “hurting myself” before “I got hurt again”.

Instead of shutting up, I mouthed off. “NOT” with possesiveness, no. Lets put that right here and now. I know you don’t believe me, and again I cant do anything about that. I didn’t want to start losing you, that Id never be enough for you. How can I get possesive over someone who doesn’t spend time with me No that sort of time, the sort of time where you and I are “together” , how can I get possesive over someone who abandons me when something or someone better comes along, how can I get possessive over someone who neglects me when the fancy takes them,,,,

You were and had been neglecting me. You were oblivious that you were, Ive been trying to talk to you, but you keep shutting me out. Lets remember why we love each other….please. I want that more than anything. After all I know why I love you . Please lets try.

I was just hurt that I was cancelled twice in favour of someone else. Playing 2nd fiddle isnt nice. Ok its necessary sometimes. Perhaps “male pride” played a part too. Besides that the ONLY silver lining from Saturday was that it was a “moan free” evening, and earning an easy 25 quid, and that I do listen to my instructor even though he thinks I dont!! Next time Ill invited some mates from class.

If anything my reaction was out of “fear”, abject fear.Id be through this so many times before. To quote a Confucious “ If you show a dog that had be beaten, do you not expect it to flinch when you show it a whip..” I know it is really difficult for you to understand that. I can tell you why, if you are willing to listen. All you have to do is ask. You don’t have to, If you do, I need your “undivided attention”.

My “analogy of the pie” that I told you, only served to let you know in around about way how I felt. I could have bottled it up, and not told you but it would have served no purpose.,Im willing to compromise if you are.

I just don’t understand why, you treat me the way you do. You say you love me, well you’ve a funny way of showing it. I didn’t understand why we did a lot together and now you’ve stopped that or you “exclude me” . Its a case of “when you get round to me”. When we do go out now its rare, when I ask you if we could do something I have to wait for your second answer just in case you change your mind.

Compromise. I do love you, no matter what you say or how you think otherwise. I do know what love is. I put up with things because of the love I do have for you, warts and all.

On another level, doesnt my reaction give you an indication on how badly I was treated. Next time my reaction will be to smile and say “have a nice time” and NO MORE.

I just wanted to spent some time with you , is that wrong? with out you being asleep, because that is the only time I do get you to myself. I asked you if we could put the romance back, That means the whole 9 yards not just a few inches.I don’t want to feel Im doing it by myself.


Next time all you’ll have from me is a big smile and a “have a nice time”.
Promise."

She read that and I could tell that it spooked her. If you were here what would you think if you read that?

Thsi morning I didnt say anything but at work I got this text "Sorry 4 making you unhappy but we can try XX"

I rang her back and said that effort must be put on both side 50 50. We need to rebuild bridges and resurect thing that fell by the way side. Im not going to give up on our marriage.

At least no one can sayI havent tried. If or when my W walks, I can look in the mirror and say "You tried, at least it wasnt you"

I dont know what else I can do.