Husband doesn't want sex

[Baroness]

Where is everyone? I had a good day today with my friend. She took me to dinner and then I got to pick out my birthday gift and then we went and had ice cream. A little while ago he asked me where those vitamins were I bought for him. I guess he's going to take them. He's been forgetting about them since I bought them.

I bought vitamins and I'm feeling a lot better. My friend asked me why I suddenly am so accepting of the way things are here and I told her I'm tired of being upset because it isn't helping anything. Of course she hasn't had a man in 20 years. She thinks i'm with him because I don't want to be alone because she has another friend like that.

I said its hard to leave someone that you have been with for a lot of years because you are used to them and they back you up and you can depend on them. I don't think I'm afraid of being alone, I've been alone before. The only thing i'm afraid of is making the wrong choice in staying with a man who doesn't want to make love to me.

But I will at least be able to say that I gave it my best shot. I can't believe how patient I've been and how understanding. Maybe I should just pretend that everything is okay too. Well, at least he's making the effort in taking the vitamins. I only got him one because I didn't know how he would feel about taking more than one pill. This is supposed to help him.

Anyway, I'm still holding on to the belief that I am doing the right thing in staying, not because of my age or because I'm not working. I'm staying because I still have feelings for him but its very hard to be attracted to someone who doesn't seem to notice you in a sexual way.

I've never had a man treat me like this but i'm tired of feeling sorry for myself. I had a good day and maybe that's all we can do; concentrate on one day at a time and not worry about what hasn't happened yet.

[chosen]

baroness you are doing the right thing by not leaving, because when we marry, we make promises for life and we enter into a sacred covenant with our spouse.So unless our spouses commtt serious sexual sin, such as adultery, or commit serious abuse, then we arent supposed to leave/divorce. The promise for better and for worse is what we say and what we agree to.Not always easy but it is true.
It sounds to me that you are following God, and that is always best.

[1aokgal]

For a man to be a "refuser" to deny his wife conjugal rights, is SERIOUS abuse. It exposes the mate to temptation, to seek physical comfort from another. It causes emotional devastation and the loss of equilibrium as one feels unworthy, unwanted and rejected. A refused mate can take a terrible tailspin toward something to mask the pain, in some cases, alcohol, MEDS as antidepressants, eating disorders or other forms of filling in a need to be loved and appreciated.

One beomes a hostage to anothers' refusal to keep HIS marital vows. Most women will stay in vain hope that things will change and as time goes by she is the one who changes. One is isolated in a problem that can't be shared with others. She becomes the social shield he keeps for others so they think he is an OK guy. Meanwhile she suffers in silence. I am not talking about sometimes ED problems but that other less understood dilemma of the loss of sexual desire.

This is a painful and sad problem and a burial ground for the hopes one had in marriage. There will never be a day when she doesn't question whether this is the right course. The divide widens between her husband and herself. I've lived with this dilemma and it is a difficult life to be labeled "married" and live single. It is especially hard to love another who lives behind a wall. Husband and wife who sleep in separate rooms in time will share few other things.

[chosen]

I suppose we all have greatly differing opinions on what constititues abuse. In my opinion a husband with ED doesn't constitute abuse, let alone serious abuse. Its not something that he can help any more than others can help other physical problems.

[Baroness]

I agree about the h using his wife as a shield so everyone will think he's okay. That just happened to me and I also agree that it is a form of mental abuse. However; even though we don't share a bed our relationship is like it has always been; good. Especially lately it is more than good.

That doesn't take away the fact of what isn't happening however. I don't think he will ever admit to it or even want to talk about it. As i've said before, my love for him has changed. How could it not? But I do still love him and I have known him for a long time and we've seen each other through difficult times.

I will say that in those times I am the one who suffered the most. I'm talking about when he was going to the bar all the time, but he did stand by me during the vodka time and now I don't drink hard liquor at all and haven't for over a year. His drinking has diminished quite a bit and he doesn't spend a lot of time in bars.

At times he is so generous and he makes me laugh and there are things that only he and I can relate too. We know each other. I am proud of the things he does for other people and up at the canyon. I am proud of the man he is. Of course I am not proud of how he is handling this. He could get help if he wanted to and even now I'm not sure its ed or the fact that he no longer finds me attractive, even though he says he is.

I know its ridiculous for me to feel this way but even though you may think you know what the problem is, you really could be wrong. Since he doesn't talk about it I don't know for sure but by the way our last encounter went I am pretty sure its ed, but it hasn't been confirmed or anything.

And I am also very sure that he is satisfying himself although I don't know when, it could be any time and I try not to think about it. He is no longer the center of my universe. I have other things to think about and other relationships in my life. I'm still doing pretty good in that I'm not walking around with anger and resentment.

Of course I will admit that the resentment comes to surface from time to time. I just can't live my life in anger and all the feelings this brings because it isn't doing me any good and doesn't change anything. I pray for him as well as for others, including George who posted on here, but I can't be an angry person anymore.

Life is too short. There are many other things that I enjoy in my life. Crafts, cooking, writing, friendships and shopping. I don't want to waste another minute dwelling on this 24 hours a day and i've already been angry too long as it is, for about three years in fact. It isn't healthy for me so I have to concentrate on making my hats.

And if the enemy is trying to get me down with this, well, he loses.

[1aokgal]

Chosen..

You have a great many opinions about a great many subjects. As you stated, you have no personal experience with a sexless marriage.

I am not the poster girl for sexless marriages, but after many, many years I am more knowledgable then most, having lived it and studied the dysfunction. As I said in my post, I do not discuss the physical malady of ED.
There are pills, pumps and devices for a man who wants to operate sexually post ED.

Please do reread my posting. It was a sure thing you would differ with anything I have to say about all subjects, but you have nothing to add on this one from a book you read. I live it, as does Baroness.
I post here that others may understand this problem, not that the facts agree with someones' concept.

Her husband has had some ED problems. That is not the full problem but the truth likely is this , he has lost sexual desire for his wife while meeting his own needs. He will not address the problem so she suffers the negligence. Sex is in the mind and not just in the loins. There are different forms of sex and a man who has desire can go that route. Men in wheelchairs can have sex in many cases, in other forms. It is easier for this man to perform for himself than to seek treatment for ED. Masturbation is as addictive as other personality disorders, as nail biting. It is habitual and takes away desire in the marriage and robs performance in the bedroom.

A woman simple can not scratch where he itches, as good as he can himself! He now has no problem as he sleeps elsewhere and has privacy, while he refuses to discuss this with her. That is the emotional abuse.
He will have a hissyfit with her if she brings it up.

Such a man can also become so agreeable and be a good companion instead of a lover. He will compensate for his failings to keep a facade in place and will be generous and helpful. He keeps her bound by his good deeds and little rewards he will use instead of affection and sex.

A woman can also get a dog who is a most agreeable companion. Personally, I sleep with a sweet grey striped cat and I have a very beautiful large dog to come at my command. I know my animals do not cheat me of love or neglect me emotionally.

I am lucky because my husband is gone six months of the year so I can maintain some peace. I will always admire this decent and intellectually astute man I married 31 years ago. That hasn't diminished, but it also doesn't cure the anger I feel because there has been much of this life unlived as it was meant to be. When he is here we are close and loving and viewed by many as a couple to envy. I keep myself busy and divert energy in my business. I urged Baroness to find something that belongs just to her.

It is sad to realize we may have placed a bet on the wrong horse, however his merits. My h. will always be the man I have most loved. It can be difficult to cope with loneliness at times since he is away but I fill the time with many enjoyable projects, friends and family. Others see us as a successful married couple. Sometimes that makes me bite my tongue. We are matched in all interests and things we like and are great companions. Yet we don't discuss this most sensitive subject because of how he would react. I never let my husbands family think there was ever a problem.

[chosen]

You situation is very different from Baronness's though. Hers is very recent and wasnt this way for a long time. Yours has been for most of the marriage. If a man has ED he can hardly help it, it is physical. He is finding it really hard to deal with and accept.
She otherwise has a close and loving marriage. Why throw that away? Having ED isnt being abusive.
Telling her that nothing will change and that she will just have to accept it or leave, is because that is what you have experienced, every case is different, every marriage is different.

[1aokgal]

Chosen..

When this problem began my husband was 38, robust and healthy since we regularly played tennis, hiked the mountains, biked long trips, enjoyed our boat and worked out together at the gym. The first 12 years we were together was perfect. His job which requires he is gone 6 months a year, developed fully at that time. I see that absence as very hard on a couple. His lifestyle never includes drinking or substance problems and he is still physically in great shape. The many years we have together have been the best I could have with a devoted man, with one exception.

Her husband is 65, with a past drinking problem, plus some bouts of ED, which she believes may have been result of past alcohol use. The other problem discussed here which Baroness talks about, is the same.

Chosen, I am curious why you are so fascinated with this thread? You seem to have a pre-occupation with those of us who come here to discuss these issues with others who understand and share this problem. You want to interpret your knowledge from something you read again?
What is your point?

I told Baroness what I experienced. Where do you get off to say I advised her she should leave her marriage? Rather, I would say realistically, at 55 yrs old, that would be a foolish move for any woman to launch out in the toughest econemy since the depression, in hopes to find job, roof over head and perhaps find another "whole" man or greener pastures.

To the contrary, I advised her to make use of her talents and direct that energy where she is not preoccupied by these problems. I suggested that hats were successful internet items and supplied pattern and design sources so she could launch a business. That guidance steered Baroness to millinery creations she can sell on the internet. She finds pleasure in this path and it eased tensions in her household. That is the best advise she will ever get!

You are typically argumentative.

[Chamomile]

Hi Ladies :)

I appreciate what 1aokgal is trying to say.

I also appreciate Chosen is a dedicated poster on this site and her posts are extremely helpful most of the time (which is a huge positive when no one usually cares quite often in this day and age so her presence is so unique).

Her complete Faith in God is indisputable. And, I do admire her for it. Chosen's character is so solid like a massive boulder which just sits quietly most of the time independently.

I can also appreciate where 1aokgal is saying. I can feel your pain as if it were mine. I often think about this type of situation in my own life. Maybe, it's a matter of expectation we unconsciously possess? We all need to be understood FIRST when we seek help rather than being given a plain, cut and dried reply, along the simple line of "Do this now and you will be fine". When you are bleeding emotionally, you want that to be accepted and recognized. It's very understandable. We sometimes feel better when we are listened properly. I believe it's our spiritual dimension we possess.

In philosophy, they say that the "concepts of logic are far from cut and dried." To be honest, no replies for people who went through life-long sexless marriage should be cut and dried. In a way, it's another insult to a long-standing injury if such is done. The problem of yours is so immense and the huge damage caused by it must be beyond any descriptions. There's a difference between material needs and spiritual needs. When something is missing greatly then one is bound to notice and suffer.

Also, it may be worth thinking re. educational level of ppl who would reply. Some ppl seem to have talents and aptitude without any qualifications. But if you are so academic and are highly educated in Master's Degree or PhD etc, you are bound to be disappointed by the level of reply from someone who merely went to High School. You have an intellectual mind and you may want to seek your intellectual counterpart, which may not be available strictly on this site.

We can be all guilty of this in a public site such as this but we all need not to irritate someone/others by our crass assumptions. Sometimes, dismissive reply could drop like a sharpened knife without realizing. We really don't know ins and outs of everyone's situation that well. We assume a lot of things from reading what is written. We need to stay sensitive to the "feelings" of posters who had laid their faith shown over this site. Some posts contain highly intimate and personal information and that shows the level of faith in us. These need to be handled carefully.

[Forever]

Chamomile,
Very well put. I for one have no idea what being refused is like on any level....I have been totally rejected and then divorced as the result of it, but never lived my life in a "half in, half out" sort of way. I think the reason I wanted to help Baroness is because she does have her faith at her disposal...and I felt that perhaps she could be built up on that particular level as well. She needs all the support she can get, but some of us can only offer part.

That said, I also, if I am reading this correctly, think that Chosen's main concern is that Baroness does not become bitter and toss an otherwise good marriage. This would be a very easy thing to do if the conversations were primarily about how painful and unfair the situation were. There are many other things there that can operate as a means securing some level of wholeness in a relationship, and Chosen may be thinking that if we focus of the feelings of the "abuse" or "betrayal" too heavily, then we can discuss our way out of an otherwise good oportunity to properly exercise that faith to it's final outcome.

So there is a tension here, trying to help someone by whatever means we have as our strongest offering.

[1aokgal]

Dear Chamomile...

Your astute observations on this site are always kind and genrous to all. I liken this thread to a painting of two boats. One is a luxery liner passing by and there are observers at the rail. I see Chosen as one of those who view the world from the rail from a safe distance. Though one can never say that a marriage of hers' (or the liner) of short duration is "safe." One also wonders why there is so much time sight seeing on this thread.

The other image is a smaller boat. Some passengers are in the water and a few are newly aboard this boat who feel frightened and try to maintain balance and establish safe footing. Those on this boat try to help the new passengers hang on and make it to port. I see myself on that boat and
Baroness is there. She feels relieved that others survived and understand her fear. As a passenger, I'm sure that the weather will remain good and we can maintain footing and help others into the boat.

It bothers me that one who sits dry on the liner insinuate their opinions on what happened here. The curiousity and lack of empathy is apparent in deameanor. It is easy to have faith when things are right in ones' world. It is a huge test of faith to live under adverse conditions and still keep faith intact. There are those profess faith, but would never consider serving a meal at a homeless shelter for others or taking someone less fortunate into their home and feed them at ones' own table. I have done these duties of faith, but don't talk much about my beliefs.

No one has the formula to heal a marriage nor is every situation alike here. So we can't offer more than personal experience, sympathy and support.
Belief is the lifeline for most of us regardless of where we are in that painting. It is also difficult to talk about an intimate area of living because most of us learns a woman holds the key to intimacy in a marriage....said my mother. That means when there is a problem in the marriage the woman may feel she has failed.

[Baroness]

I realize that not everyone can understand the current situation I am in. Sometimes I hardly understand it myself. When I first came on here all I wanted was to know there were other women who suffered from the same situation that I did and I was reaching out to understand why this was happening and wanted to know what to do about it.

1aokgal has a similar situation but has suffered longer than I have with it. Of course her husband is different than mine but they have very similar reactions to a similar problem. Who really understands why this happens to a man and why he handles it the way he does. Posting on here has kept me in touch with women of different personalities and different problems.

No one can understand exactly what I'm feeling because my h is different than all of yours. And I am a different kind of person than others on here. And yet I've heard very good suggestions and also ones that don't help me. I take it into consideration but I have certain standards that I believe in. If we didn't have a problem in our life we would not be on here.

I have found comfort on here and indeed, a new way of life that helps me cope with what is happening. There is no stress between him and I now because I let it go, gave it to God and yet sometimes I still battle with it. It has helped me a great deal to talk on here, to know that someone else has a similar problem.

There is a big difference in me from when I first came on here and the way I am now. In the process of posting I reinforced my relationship with God and that helps more than you know. But God isn't making the problem just go away and i'm sure he has reasons for that. I'm not going to be mad at God because he isn't solving this problem as I think he should. Who am I to question him?

But neither am I telling myself that its all going to be okay eventually and I will have a happily ever after. For many years I had that attitude. I didn't want to hear anything negative because I was living in this dream world where I would be happy with the man of my dreams and everything was going to be fine.

I can't live with my head in the sand anymore. Life isn't like that. It isn't like the romance novels I write and one of the reasons I write them is because I can make the man do whatever I want and he's always a gentleman and I assure you he doesn't have ed. I read novels in my youth and was certain I was going to find the man of my dreams.

There is no such man, but that doesn't mean there aren't good men but as human beings we are all flawed in some way and we deal with the things in our life either well or badly. And then we can start out badly and then get better, which is what I hope I have done. I am not in constant stress and anger anymore.

I have times when I am still upset and I think of what I'm missing out on, but most of the time now I am not letting this rule my whole life. Since I have felt this kind of detachment from the situation things have been going pretty well between him and I. He doesn't get mad when I try to bring it up, he just makes excuses and pretends all is okay.

I have made an adjustment to my feelings. Before I was mad and hurt and just wanted to leave because then he'd be sorry he treated me like this. I thought of that scenario a lot. But then I put myself into the future without him to see how I would feel and panic gripped me. To not have him in my life, to not see him or his smile would be horrible.

As long as I'm here there is hope. If I am not here there is no hope because we wouldn't see each other and I think it would hurt both of us very much. Since we still love each other it would be like having a body part missing if we were no longer together. Maybe I would find a man that would pay attention to me and make love to me, and maybe I wouldn't find anyone or worse yet; find someone who betrayed me with someone else.

At least now I know that he doesn't want anyone else, he's told me so on several occasions and to be honest with you, I don't want anyone else either but this is where the problem lies. I feel like I can't have him when I want or maybe never again. It is very hard to want someone and not be able to be with them as you would like.

Eight months ago we made love and it was great and we made love several times during the night. Four months ago we attempted to make love but he had a problem staying erect and I got frustrated and it didn't end well. He has slept with me since and we have held each other but nothing happened. Once I was too tired and then he was, but he hasn't slept in here with me in about 2 months now.

Four years ago when this started almost a year would go by before anything happened between us. At least we got better for awhile. He seemed very angry and quiet then so I assume that's when he realized his body wasn't the same. It comes and goes. I think he is terrified of not being able to perform. He doesn't want me to get upset and he doesn't want to have to face his problem.

Its easier for him to m and I'm not saying he does that all the time because I don't really know. I saw him once a long time ago and its natural to assume that hasn't been the only time. We no longer have the problem of him watching naked women on tv, thank God, and I know he doesn't watch porn.

I also know he loves me. He's been very loving lately and we now have an easy, enjoyable and mostly pleasant time together. I am laughing again with him and he is looking at me with love in his eyes and seems concerned that I believe that he loves me. How would you feel if you loved someone so much but your body wouldn't cooperate?

Wouldn't you feel horrible and helpless and afraid the other person would leave because you couldn't perform the way you used to? Would you want your mate to walk around angry and unhappy? Or would you want them to still love you and to make you feel like its okay and that they would still stand by you?

Would you actually admit to them that you weren't the woman you used to be and that you can no longer make love to him like you used to? Wouldn't you feel like half a woman and depressed that your body wasn't working like it used to? And wouldn't you feel so much better if he smiled at you and told you he loved you anyway?

Wouldn't you be relieved when the stress of the situation was gone? And then maybe you would relax and then feel so loved that you would risk it to try and love him? Or maybe you would be so afraid of failure that you simply couldn't risk it. You don't want him to know you can't do what he wants more than anything. And how can you admit, even to yourself that you have failed as a partner and lover?

Of course, if I were in his shoes I would go and try to get help so that I could have sex with him. I would also talk to him about it and tell him that I love him and it isn't because of anything he did. I would do that, but he has not. I would even make love to him anyway even though my body wouldn't respond.

You see, its different for a man. A woman can lay there and even fake it but a man cannot. If he can't maintain an erection then there is no hiding it. Its on his shoulders basically. Maybe he doesn't want me to feel like I am not attractive or it is somehow my fault. No, I wouldn't handle it like he has but I am not a man and I am not him.

I believe he is relieved that I quit trying to get him to talk about it. But you see, it is not just him in this. I am in this right along with him and yet he isn't making an effort. He has shown me more affection lately and tells me he loves me a lot and is oh so nice. Maybe he feels that's all he can do until his body cooperates.

There are two kinds of people in this world, ones who have a problem and put all their effort into solving it, and there are those who have a problem but don't want to admit it to those around them or to their spouse. The sitters and the doers. He is the sitter. He sits there in front of the tv and tries to forget that his body is changing.

I'm the doer, I will immediately find out what is wrong with my body and then I will do whatever it takes to try and fix it because I don't want him to feel inadequate. I have tried many things and its been a frustrating road to travel down because most of the time I feel I'm out there swimming in the water trying to stay afloat, and he's sitting on the boat watching tv and doesn't even notice I'm starting to drown.

I've said all this for myself as well as to you. I need to remind myself of what it must be like for him. If I was the one who couldn't have sex anymore I wouldn't want him telling all our friends, I would want him to keep it to himself. How helpless he must feel and yet he won't talk to the woman he loves about it.

If there was no love then it would be easy to go away and then neither one of us would have to deal with it anymore. Celebrities get divorces at the drop of a hat and i'm sure they don't divorce because of a problem like this. I'm sure their reasons are much more insignificant that this. Maybe there are real problems but they don't stay and try to work it out; they call their attorneys and before the ink is dry on the divorce decree they have already found someone else.

I am not a woman who gives up easily. I stayed with my two husbands until they cheated on me but before that I tried everything but I never had a problem like this with them. Sure, they would have sex with me but the problem was they had sex with someone else too. That is worse than what I am going through.

I have a man who loves me and no matter what you may think, there in nothing worse in life than to find out your man was with another woman. You feel betrayed and like life is over. Then you get angry but the pain is so intense that you can hardly breathe. That's what it was like for me and today, right now, I am very thankful that I don't have to go through that with this man.

[Chamomile]

Chamomile,
Very well put. I for one have no idea what being refused is like on any level....I have been totally rejected and then divorced as the result of it, but never lived my life in a "half in, half out" sort of way. I think the reason I wanted to help Baroness is because she does have her faith at her disposal...and I felt that perhaps she could be built up on that particular level as well. She needs all the support she can get, but some of us can only offer part.

Chosen may be thinking that if we focus of the feelings of the "abuse" or "betrayal" too heavily, then we can discuss our way out of an otherwise good oportunity to properly exercise that faith to it's final outcome.

So there is a tension here, trying to help someone by whatever means we have as our strongest offering.

Hi Forever

Thank you for your kind words and compassion. I'm with you in your balanced observations. You're often able to provide unique insights and perspectives which no one else seems to be able to. I deeply appreciate your remarkable presence on this site at all times. You help so many ppl and help them heal. You are one extremely devoted God's steward.

Sometimes, we do fall into negativity re. our h's character. I have done this in the past. At some point, I had to come to closure by some means e.g. specialists, shrink, therapist etc even whatever had happened in the past are not reversible.

Thank you for your sweetness and gentleness, 1aokgal. There must be some reason behind your h's behaviour which had nothing do with "you". Yes, I totally agree that empathy is very important on a Christian site like this. :)


"“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12 ESV



"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 ESV



"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 ESV

[Chamomile]

No one has the formula to heal a marriage nor is every situation alike here. So we can't offer more than personal experience, sympathy and support.
Belief is the lifeline for most of us regardless of where we are in that painting. It is also difficult to talk about an intimate area of living because most of us learns a woman holds the key to intimacy in a marriage....said my mother. That means when there is a problem in the marriage the woman may feel she has failed.

Hi 1aokgal xxx

Do you think you may be beating yourself up for this? I doubt it very much that women would need to take all the responsibility when your h's refusal was completely one-sided and you never refused yourself. Mothers can be very critical of Daughters and I know this in my own experience.

Take care xxx

[chosen]

Chamomile thank you for your support and observations.Yes I do have a rock solid faith and that is what kept me going in so many hard times. God is my rock and anchor.

You may also have a point about education levels although I have to say that even though my husband has a pHD and I stopped after A levels, we are very similar intellectually and to be honest, I cant tell any difference between those people who I know that have degrees and those who dont. Its pretty easy to get a degree these days.

1aokgal, your observations are totally wrong. I was talking to a Christian lady counsellor a few years back who was in her 70's and had been counselling for many years. She said that she had never met any one who had been through so many traumatic things in life that I had, so your idea that my life had been wonderful, and that I have only observed from the sidelines couldnt be further from the truth.
Its only in the last nearly 7 years of my adult life since I met my lovely guy, that I have had a happy life, so believe me I do have plenty of life experiences to draw from. God uses all the rubbish that we have been through for good.
I am definately not here out of 'curiosity' as you said, I am here because I am passionate about marriage and helping others. I have seen practically every marriage in my family destroyed, and that is why I spend some of my precious time here to reach out to others and to try and help them. I would never waste time coming her just out of curiosity, there are far more important things to do.

This thread has no more interest to me than any other here, I read new posts on this forum as a whole, and sometimes respond, whether they are on this thread or another.

Baronness Its clear that you are learning so much through this, and as you say, having a good man who is faithful is such a blessing, a real treasure.

[Baroness]

1aokgal, you are a beautiful person. You take time to tell me about the hats and the material needed and give me links and also tell me of your life and share with me difficult moments and you make time out of your day to email me and to give me your opinion on my hats. I consider you a true friend and you are the one I go to when I get upset with my h because I know you will understand.

I am very grateful that we met. You have helped me with your insight and I am doing much better now. I appreciate all positive comments on here as well, the ones who have tried to understand and help me to see all sides of the situation.

I was very angry at my h this morning because I told him my back hurt and he just left me with money to walk to the store while he went off in his van to go play house painter. He could have gone to the store on his way and so I was upset. I was still upset after walking to the store and he came home and I let him know I was upset.

He came over to me and took me in his arms and was trying to talk me out of being upset and I couldn't help but smile but told him the next time I tell him my back hurts, he needs to listen. After all, I am the one who took care of him when he couldn't move when he injured his back. As it turned out the walk was good for me and I was able to get a pretty box to keep some of my hat supplies in.

I am not upset anymore but my back still hurts. I had to do laundry too but I am calmer now. I think I got my point across to him, the time when I just did what I had to do and didn't say anything when I was upset are over. However; I have the kind of personality where I can let things go if someone is sorry and I see no good in staying mad.

I was going through some things and I found some beautiful material that could be used for my hats. The plan was that I was going to work on them today but when I had to go to the store that threw everything off and I probably won't work on them today because i'm in pain now. Maybe I will try after awhile because it relaxes me.

I would like to show you all a picture of one of my hats so you can understand what I've been working on. So things are okay but I was up a lot last night because I couldn't sleep and I was glad he wasn't sleeping with me because I would have disturbed him. My attitude lately has been much improved.

It isn't an act and it isn't fleeting. Of course there will be times when I get upset but I think I am justified to speaking up for myself. I never used to. I would keep everything inside.

Forever, you don't have to worry about me doing something I might regret. I react on feelings a lot but I never do anything major without thinking it through, unlike a lot of people. I never went to college, only a technical school but I have been told I am very intelligent. This comes from experience and having an instinct for the way people think. The patience and kindness and some knowledge is from God.

I am open and honest and will do anything for people and my family and h. But I will not be taken advantage of and when I reach the end of my patience, I have no problem with letting people know. I have ethics and morals that I will not go back on. I can put up with some things from my h but other things I will not.

I have always been this way. I wasn't taught this, I have just always felt this way and I am glad I am this way and yet I learn new things all the time. Just because I love my h doesn't mean I'm going to allow him to disrespect me. He knows this and he also knows of my kindness to him and my patience regarding our current problem.

We are different, like night and day in personality but we have one thing in common and that is our love for God and treating people with kindness and respect. Living with him is difficult sometimes, especially lately because I just want to shake him when he upsets me. I know of no other woman who would put up with the things I have to put up with and I'm not just talking about no sex either.

He's a difficult man to deal with sometimes and read and I know none of his ex's could understand him and so they left in anger. I see beyond what he shows me to the reasons behind it. He doesn't really know how to talk to a woman or how to make her feel better about a lot of things. He can be intelligent but in matters of the heart he is pretty stupid.

He was a history teacher when he was younger and then a prosperous painter but he has a lot of pride so he needed a woman who had wisdom on how to talk to him. I know people who have known him for 20 years or more and yet they don't really know anything about him. Not anything personal. He keeps things hidden but has opened up to me and I think this is why God brought us together.

He is totally different from the man he used to be in many ways and that is because an attractive, caring woman took the time with him and showed him that she loves him and always will. He always says God brought me into his life and he is right. But he has also been good for me as well. He has showed me a kindness and loyalty that I hadn't ever had with a man.

He has my back and I feel safe with him. He does nice, generous things for me and we have a lot of fun sometimes. Now I have to deal with us not having a physical relationship and while it is most difficult, that doesn't erase what we have together or what we mean to each other, or the love that we have always felt for each other.

A lot of people wonder why I stay with him, especially now and I don't bother explaining it to them. It isn't because I'm afraid to be alone or I'm older and don't think I could make it on my own. Quite the contrary. Those people don't really know him. I know him more than anyone and he has times when he really shines.

I have told you this because I want you to understand that even though I get frustrated at time, our love goes beyond material or physical things. We may not sleep together all the time but he has shown me a kind of happiness that I never had before. This is why you don't have to worry about me running off and leaving him one day when I get upset.

Our love goes beyond the physical pleasures of sex. It is a precious, wonderful thing and I trust him and he drives me crazy sometimes, but we have history together, we have a beautiful home and as long as he lives I will not be without him. If he ever had an affair or cheated on me it would be over because I cannot tolerate that.

That is why I don't cheat on him. It would change things between us because I couldn't keep it a secret and if I tried it would tear me apart and I can't very well do something that I would leave him for if he did it. I am not hypocritical. He may act stupid sometimes and be self centered, but there are moments that he shines so brightly and I would never give up the opportunity to see this again.

We may sleep separately most of the time and have different interests and not make love as much as we used to but so what? It works for us. I miss the sex, but there is so much more to us than sex. We have a bond of the heart. He would never intentionally do something to hurt me.

He loves me and of course I knew he would get older because he is 9 years older than me and that was bound to make a difference sooner or later. He has spent his life being used by women and treated very badly, which is why he is the way he is. I asked God a long time ago for a man just like him. Long hair, rough around the edges and he gave him to me.

My life would not be complete if he was not in it. Of course I pray that we can have a physical relationship again. But even if that doesn't happen I can't leave this man who has done so much for me and brought me such happiness. There is a lot of negative things he's also brought me over the years and I don't know how I stayed with him, but I did.

He's put me through hell, he's putting me through it now, but I will still remain by his side. It isn't perfect, but every once in a while I still get a little slice of heaven.

[1aokgal]

Dear Baroness...

I am sorry I did not get your post earlier as I would repond right away. My grandaughter is here today and tomorrow so we plan a lot of activities while she is here. I try to share things she can learn from me as painting lessons, sewing skills, a few piano lessons and she helps me put order in my sewing room and projects. We also spend part of the day in the pool which was perfect today. So I didn't check email.

It is my pleasure to share a passion with you and give you direction in using your talent. This stuff sure can add side income into your household. There are customers for the items. They are not difficult to make and are fun to do, just a bit time consuming. Once you establish contacts you will have your market. The fact these are fun to do also takes you away from problems. I love creating so much it is like parting with a kid to ship them out all over the world.

When I have your address from email, I will send you a template for the bonnet pattern. I designed this some years ago and it is easy to hand sew while you watch TV. I will get photos done tomorrow of some bonnets. The photo was taken of me some years ago in a victorian dress that was a redesign. The hat, my favorite, is a frame covered with silk, lace and applied silk ribbon flowers in muted shades. I make appearances at Victorian tea houses here and along with a television documentary done two years ago with me in costume. There were classes of school kids bussed over for this event and it was great fun to do. My husband, dressed in top hat and frock coat, played a part in the production as well. I know you will love creating the bonnets and find a niche exists for them.

I mentioned to you about having pity for your husband in all of this. As we suffer with these problems
I wonder what has happened with these men? I am sure deep down, they withdraw and pull inward. There must be a feeling of shame about all of this for them. When one has a role to perform and feels they fail in that, it must be hard to bear. I try to understand and feel sad for my h. as well. He escapes into his world of work. He works hours of overtime and provides well for me. That is how he meets his requirements to care for his wife.

I am sure he knows how unhappy, at times, these events made me. I found my own world to cope with it. We each sought our safe space.

Sometimes you will find your h. will seek you out, as my husband does. Maybe they feel it is a bit cool as I am a lot withdrawn. That is where the pity comes into this. That's when you take a minute to reward the guy to say, "Thank you for what you do for me." I think it maintains some affection between, even though the intimacy has been neglected. I feel sorry for him, who has a woman who loves him so much to try to understand what might be going on with him. It is not in me to dislike him, though I can be angry at times.

I hope little squabbles don't become the norm, but when things are not right with a couple it can be easy to have little flares. Just don't let a few unthinking words cause upheaval when these things pass like a wind change and is gone as fast as it came.

[Baroness]

1aokgal, thank you for all you kind words and help. I emailed you this morning and told you I asked him if he thought I was a nun and when he said no I said its because I'm not one. When he came home he just looked at me a moment to see if I was mad and I was not so its okay but I mainly wanted to get across to him that even though we are getting along, I still think about it and am unhappy with it.

I don't want him to get complacent as in everything is fine so he doesn't have to worry about it anymore. Mainly, my point was while I can laugh and enjoy his company, I am not accepting this situation. I mean, I am accepting it because I have no choice but I don't want him to think that its okay that we never have sex.

I am doing well regardless of the situation. It is surprising to me how well I am doing when nothing has actually changed. I think God is helping me and my own personality helps as well since I refuse to walk around angry and upset with him all the time. It isn't okay by any means, but I prefer to handle this by not causing any stress day to day for either one of us.

He has been seeking me out a lot lately and hugging me and even kissing me passionately and telling me how much he loves me and he's been doing this for many days now. I am responsive to him and I put my hands on his muscles and said, 'No one gets to touch these but me, right?' and he said right. It cracks me up that he was continually telling me that his body was mine and I could have it whenever I wanted.

He hasn't said that in quite awhile but I know that his body is mine in that he isn't giving it to anyone else. In the beginning I suspected him of having an affair because he wasn't making love to me. I realize that was untrue but all kinds of things can pop into your head when your man suddenly doesn't sleep with you like he used to.

I am still centering on my life and my projects. I have been spending the past week with him in there and we've had a lovely time but when I go to bed alone it always feels like something is missing. Something is missing of course. At least he's taking his vitamins now which should help him with this problem and keep him healthy as well.

My personal opinion is never let a man feel too sure of you. If he thinks you will love him no matter what he does then he will do whatever he wants and not worry about repercussions. I want him to know I love him of course but he needs to know there are limits as to what I will put up with. We all have limits, including him, and respect should always be present.

When you talk of having customers I wonder if I will ever have customers. I'm just starting out and I've thought, what if I'm buying all this material and supplies and it doesn't work out? I don't make any money? I am determined, however, and trust what you say because you ought to know, its just hard for me to see this happening right now.

It has given me a new lease on life, however. I have something to look forward to and everything I look at I wonder if I could incorporate it into a hat. I needed this in my life. It is the same feeling I get when I paint landscapes, like nothing matters except what I'm doing. I have asked God to bless this new business of mine and I know he will because it is his desire that we prosper.

I don't know what I would do without all the crafts and talents I possess. I am thankful that I do because life would be meaningless without them. I don't understand people who don't have a passion for something. Not a man or husband, but something they like to do.

I have to go make a gourmet chinese dinner now so I have to go. This is probably the shortest post I have ever done.

[1aokgal]

Hi Baroness..

I know how difficult it is to live day to day with a man you love and you can't reach out and become close to him intimately. Since you are not his good realtive, mother or cousin, it is hard to be affectionate with a pat and platitudes. He tries to pacify you and avoid conflict. Since he is not
the big communicater, you still have the mystery about what goes on with him. You feel a bit more injured from these efforts perhaps, to fake out everything is alright..when it is far from that.

That is a hard position to be in, but I will tell you that little verbal confrontation works like a hit and run. There might be some satisfaction for a second, but you both need peace so you can schedule time together without performance anxiety, stress. The longer is the space between your intimacy, the harder to breach the bitterness as time passes.

A similar situation is that my husband always puts his arms around me and tells me daily he loves me. Sometimes it is hard not to reach out, give him a wack and say, "What planet do you live on?" He wants to reassure me but it does not make it easier, does it? A passionate person wants a whole relationship and not a sham. I think confrontations now will not keep your space open to talk about the nice things you do have together.

I would say bide your time to a more pleasant moment when you have time to talk, and you open the issue by saying, "I feel this way or that." you say "You do this or you do that"..you will have conflict. Your man is not one to talk, without corralling him in a really nice moment. Keep the talk to what he sees for the two of you, if this continues. I wonder what he might say, if asked?
You want to let him know what you expect and what are your hopes.

It would be good if you could set a night as a "date" or plan to be intimate on a certain day. Maybe you can pin him down to some schedule that doesn't involve your TV set. If the two of you could just get together for a nice evening and without licquor involved.

On the house painting he does free. He may feel it is OK to give his services free, but it would seem to me that isn't help to your finances.
When you make plans to create your items, don't extend yourself with a lot of expenses. Remember there are items in the second hand shop that can be cut for fabric and used for pennies.
I made some great stuff with recycled fabrics. The hardest thing for you is to keep yourself on track to so your time together is better than him staring for hours at TV, while you occupy yourself in another room. Maybe you go for a walk and just spend time together.
Oh, wouldn't it be nice to turn back the clock when things were easy.

[Baroness]

I have tried the 'date night' before and nothing ever came of it. His idea of date night is to go down to that nightclub where we know the owner but he isn't focusing on us or me there, but other people. We have gone to a movie theater before and dinner but not for a long time.

Perhaps when money isn't so tight we might do that but even when it wasn't tight, we didn't do that. We are mainly home together. Even now, he is in there watching tv after dinner. I have movie waiting to be watched that I got from Blockbuster and one he will like and yet its been sitting there for a couple of days. I've reminded him and I'm not doing it again.

The last one I rented he didn't want to see and its taking too long to view these movies when we could be getting another one. Yesterday he was watching a movie I swear he saw two days ago and I told him I couldn't believe he was watching it again. I have movies on the dvr but he isn't interested.

He's stuck in a mode of his own where he keeps watching the same movies or the news. I am just not interested in these things even though I did sit out there with him for a couple of nights. We are big football fans and have our own favorite teams so that is something we always do together. Last night was the first game of the season and he kept reminding me about it for days and then when it came time he didn't want to change it over to the game.

He said he's watching a movie and I said he'd been reminding me about this game for days and now he was going to watch the same movie he'd seen a hundred times? He changed it over finally but on commercials kept going back to the movie and I said I wasn't going to sit there any longer because I was sick of this movie. I said I wasn't sick of it until I watched it every week and that's why I come in here.

I'm not wasting my time watching the same movies. I will only watch a movie I've seen if it has been awhile. It's been a quiet day for us with him not talking much but he liked the chinese dinner. He did have on a funny movie I'd seen some time ago and I was laughing from time to time as I was cooking but after dinner I came in here.

He comes in and says hi and then sits to watch tv and he doesn't tell me about his day or say anything really and so I have to ask and I get tired of that. The past few days he's been volunteering that information and we've been talking a lot and he's been having a few beers. I tell you, the only time he has an interesting personality is after he's had a beer or two.

Of course it isn't always that way but when he isn't drinking he doesn't really talk to me. Oh, once in awhile but not like when he's having a beer. Sometimes he'll only have a couple and sometimes more and I will be out there with him and have one and we will have a good time mostly, but when he isn't drinking he just watches what he wants and doesn't bother to ask me anymore if I want to watch something.

I'm afraid this isn't going to change. It's been like this for going on 4 years now although he's much more talkative than a couple of years back. But when he's affectionate is always when he's drinking beer. When he isn't he doesn't say he loves me or kiss me and if there is any affection between us its me doing it.

He seems to get irritated easier and that has also improved but sometimes he seems agitated but if you ask him if he is happy he'll say yes, he's very happy. He's living the way he wants with the woman he wants in a nice home. He seems to be on another planet when he's thinking and sometimes talks to himself quietly but I can't hear anything he's saying.

He usually does that when he's drinking and when he drinks is when he gets aroused and so I know what he's doing. It used to be he would come in here and make passionate love to me but that isn't the case now and that's why I said what I did this morning. But he just ignores what I say and does what he wants which is to sit out there.

He doesn't have any hobbies like I do so tv is all he does on down time because he loves to do it. He is an excellent musician with the guitar and banjo but he doesn't play either one. The only other thing he likes is to paint and to go up to the canyon but he has nothing he likes to do while at home like I do.

We've never played a game together, whether it be cards or board games and I like to do both. We used to do puzzles together and we are both excellent at that but we've done a lot of puzzles and some of them are framed and in the bedroom. That was the one thing he enjoyed doing. He used to read a lot but doesn't now.

He has my new book I wrote in there and he's reading it from time to time but I don't think he's picked it up in awhile even though he says he really likes it. He's just too busy watching tv! He says that is our entertainment and he won't let me take off any movie channels. This is my life. Is it any wonder that I really like doing the hats?

I keep myself sane by doing things I like to do. I like movies too but there are many other things I like to do. I like photography and a lot of other things. There isn't anything I can do to change the way he is. Most of the time I don't care because I'm busy with my own agenda. Maybe he wants me to sit in there and watch these movies with him but I'm not going to do it.

I've seen them and its a waste of time for me to sit there just because he's in there and likes to watch these movies. I have mentioned this to him several times, why are you watching that again? I can't believe you're watching that again, and Really? You're watching that again? He can do whatever he wants but I'm making my life interesting and rewarding.

Most of the time he's like this old man who has lived his life and now he just wants to sit somewhere and watch tv and eat. This pattern changes from time to time but the tv watching does not. I know there are a lot of women who have it harder than this. I know there are people worse off and very needy and poor, so I really have no right to complain just because he wants to spend his life watching the television.

[1aokgal]

Hi Baroness..

You are alone when he goes to the canyon so when you might feel lonely there is the time to do good things for you. Hope you get out for short walk every day which you need for your mobility.
Movement is a good thing even with a back problem. I went through problems with health and know how important it is to get exercise scheduled every day. Crafts are fun, but sedentary.

A good thing is to plan to sew when it is so hot outside, and you just want to stay in that cool house. I like to do my hand sewing, as hemming and such, in front of the TV in the eve as it is hard for me to sit without some project.

There might be a time when you admit that situation there isn't worth stressing over around another person. That is when I center my life around myself, my animals and things I do to find enrichment. I basically say, "Whatever!" and do as I please and things I enjoy. When he is here or not here, I plan to meet a friend for lunch or go to a movie with them. We do things together..he and I, but he doesn't center my world. I let him know my schedule a day ahead so he can deal with it. That is when he might go to the bookstore or putter in the garage.

Your husband has interests that don't include you. It seems your life is limited to when he is around more than necessary. I would work on your own interests and get busy on that. He doesn't sound like a very interesting companion, so the break for you to meet a friend will get some fresh air. You don't have transportation and your friend can pick you up.
If you bike, get a friend to go on bike trips. My friend and I drive w/bike racks out to the state park and ride in spring and fall, and we boat in summer. My husband likes to do thst when he is around as well.
I guess you overlooked some of his personality in the glow or is he different today?

Women are often attracted to quiet, introspected men who tend to be a little selfish and macho. Attractive up front, but sometimes not so much years later. It is true that a trait that attracts us, sometimes is the very trait we might not like later. What did you find most attractive about this man?
How long did you know him before you married?

[Chamomile]

Your husband has interests that don't include you. It seems your life is limited to when he is around more than necessary. I would work on your own interests and get busy on that. He doesn't sound like a very interesting companion, so the break for you to meet a friend will get some fresh air. You don't have transportation and your friend can pick you up.
If you bike, get a friend to go on bike trips. My friend and I drive w/bike racks out to the state park and ride in spring and fall, and we boat in summer. My husband likes to do thst when he is around as well.
I guess you overlooked some of his personality in the glow or is he different today?

Women are often attracted to quiet, introspected men who tend to be a little selfish and macho. Attractive up front, but sometimes not so much years later. It is true that a trait that attracts us, sometimes is the very trait we might not like later. What did you find most attractive about this man?
How long did you know him before you married?

Hi

I agree with many things which you have pointed out and I have most enjoyed your unique observations as always, 1aokgal :)

Knowing Baroness is gaining more and more awareness of her own situation thanks to your consistent and educated guidance, I'm sure there will be more improvement in her life.

Incidentally, have you received my email via your professional site? I was wondering if it might have ended up in your spam box. If my email lacked sensitivity or sounded rather totally off the mark etc then I do apologize unreservedly. I wasn't sure re. boundaries so I tried not to be too intrusive in my email. xxx

Moving around, I agree, should be promoted. If you have an occupational therapist, then he/she might give you more advice. I myself try to be careful not to over-protect myself only because of my illness. It's important to be with people, which makes anyone's life more rewarding. The more one shrinks back, one loses more function. If you are in so much pain, (as I do), it might be worth consulting someone as to how best to cope.

About driving, isn't it rather unusual for someone who lives in a place like California not to be driving? Autonomy is so important and that will reduce dependency to other people e.g. asking for a lift, need for someone else to get your shopping done etc. It simply gives you more freedom but I'm sure you already know this.

Chosen, I did also say, along the line of "some ppl are talented without formal qualifications". I agree, some qualified people can be quite useless if they do not possess certain unique qualities and values above all. In fact, those could cause more harm only if they got qualifications and lacked respect. I never tried to say that qualifications will automatically create a "better" person. So I do think we aren't in serious disagreement there :)

[Chamomile]

Women are often attracted to quiet, introspected men who tend to be a little selfish and macho. Attractive up front, but sometimes not so much years later. It is true that a trait that attracts us, sometimes is the very trait we might not like later. What did you find most attractive about this man?
How long did you know him before you married?

Hi

I do notice on this site that there are people whose partners appear to come across as having certain personality disorder(s). Mine probably has it as well and my h is a well respected pillar of the community because of his profession but that doesn't automatically mean he's free from "maladies" in his private (hidden) life. I'm sure a lot of marriages have these hidden problems. I got mine and others got theirs. It's no big deal. We all have our share. These are a bit like "pesky flies" which simply keep bugging us from time to time.

[chosen]

Chamomile, no we arent in dissagrement about the 'qualification' thing at all. Everyone has different talents and abilities, and a degree, to be honest, means little these days.

My brother went to uni, and I choose not to, in fact I was married ay 19 and was working full time and earning a living to pay our rent/bills/food/fares. Intellectually we are very similar however.The sad thing about degrees and similar is that most of my childrens friends who got them, have never used them again after uni, so it does seem a terrible waste of all that time and effort. Still its a good life experience going to uni I am sure, and everything that we do helps to teach us valuable lessons in life.:)

[Helen_uk]

My son has a first class honours degree , which he worked very hard for along side working part time to keep himself out of debt ,it did secure him a good job in local government. Qualifications are valuable as long as they are vocational based ... or good general degrees in such things as English or Maths.

For jobs that involve any kind of advice or mental health support such as therapists , where people are vulnerable I would say qualifications are absolutely essential. You wouldn't consult a doctor with no medical training and you shouldn't put your mental health in the hands of anyone who doesn't have both in depth training and lots of practical experience. Life experience or having read books on a subject simply isn't enough in my opinion and advising from that point of view can do more harm than good as you have no yard stick to measure by other than personal experience... and every case is different. That's where training comes in.

That's why, in my opinion we do need to exercise caution on support groups such as this, to give people information of our own experiences but never to " tell " them what they should do.

[chosen]

My daughter too has a good degree which she did as a mature student when she knew what career path she wanted to take. She works with children, and she will go on to be a childrens counsellor when she has done more counsellor training.

Consellors/therapists etc can be very mixed. My husband and his ex saw counsellers who were supposedly trained and qualified who were useless. I cant believe what they did and to be honest they more or less drove an already shaky marriage over the edge. Even with training it doesnt always make people good at their job. We still need common sense and life experiences as well.

yes with serious mental health issues, you do need to have teaching and experience when you are dealing with people who are very ill, just as you need a doctor with training to deal with physical illness. Mind you I met a couple of totally useless phychiastrists who quite honestly didnt have a clue, but hopefully most are not like that.

I think that we were talking about general education levels as opposed to specific instances of where you do or dont need training.

I suppose that most teaching/training/degrees are, after all, mainly reading and studying as well as some practical parts (depending on what it is).

[Helen_uk]

I understand what you're saying, but if you chose to use a non professional for anything then you have no idea of the guidelines they use, nor do you have much in the way of a body to complain to if it all goes wrong.

As a counsellor I sometimes felt it necessary to refer people to a psychotherapist and in that instance I would always recommend they chose one from BACP or similar.

The point of a degree is basically to allow a person to start further up a career ladder in theory, although in practice that doesn't always happen.

As far as general education goes , qualifications express a willingness to learn to a prospective employer and most employers these days , unless it's a training position require both qualifications and experience. It's long been a bone of contention for me that not every child performs well in exam conditions and their true potential is often over looked because of this. However that is the way of the world .

My son went into senior school 2 years early because his primary school informed me there was nothing left they could teach him , he was in 6th form at age 15 and uni at age 17 . However my youngest son has an ASD and required support in school. So I've seen education from both ends of the spectrum. Both sons have managed to achieve high levels of education through different routes , but youngest son , who doesn't have a degree has found it more difficult to find work so far , maybe down to economic climate, but at interview stage he often gets overlooked in favour of people who do have a degree.

However , in my opinion intellect and intelligence are two entirely different things.

[chosen]

yes I agree that intellect and intelligence are very different. MY daughters boyfriend(age 26) is the most intelligent person I have ever met. He must have an incredibly high IQ. He knows anything about anything, and I know that if he has been encouraged more and been guided differently he could have easily got a phd and more. He has got a degree in music production and is in full time work, but I sometimes feel that his great intelligence is so wasted.

My son and younger daughter choose not to apply for uni, but are doing really well in their jobs. One is a senior librarian(and loves it) and one is in IT for a Christian charity and has learnt all that he knows on the job. He may well end up as a minister or full time church/youth worker though.
I dont think that uni would have made any difference to them as neither knew what they wanted to do at that time, and also I was not in a position to support them financially either.

[Helen_uk]

I was the same chosen with my eldest son , he continued to live at home, went to a local uni and worked his way through paying for his keep . I was not in a position to support him financially at that time. He's such a good lad and insisted he pay toward his keep . He was the first person in our family to go to uni , I didn't have that oportunity , at 16 I was married and at 19 raising my son.

I left school with no qualifications despite being in the top grade for all subjects and sitting 9 O level mock exams , I was pulled out of school by my step mother who wanted me to care for her during breast cancer. When my son went to school, so did I . Took my exams and then did A levels before going on to take my counselling diploma , I would have liked to take a psychology degree but finances- and time - didn't permit.

Now when I should have the time to study I'm too ill. I'm proud of BOTH my sons as the have both overcome difficulties to achieve what they have, in very different ways.

My dad is probably the most intelligent person I know and he has no formal qualifications . My son, who has comes a very close second.

Apologies for the thread going completely off course !

[chosen]

My daughter did consider living at home, but the course that she wanted to do wasnt available at the nearest uni(and that was quite a way away) and also by then she had been living away from home for 2 years anyway and didnt want to have to come back.(she was in her mid 20's) I didnt have any room anyway at that time as I had had to move to a smaller home. She also worked all through uni, at one time doing 2 paid jobs and a volunteer job! Even so,and despite managing her money well, she has still come out with a very large loan, which is sad.

Another interesting thing is that it was picked up in her first year at uni that she is mildy dyslexic, so to achieve what she did was even better. Strange that she went all through school and no one picked it up, and her tutor at uni picked it up. If it had been noticed at school she would have had more help there.

Like you I was married and having children early when most are at uni, but was never interested in going to uni for some reason, although did do O and A levels. I never regretted not going. At that time only a small number did go, unlike now, and it was much harder to get in.

I dont study now as in formal studying with exams, but do read and read and read and have a very enquiring mind.

[Helen_uk]

I think back in our day chosen uni wasn't considered the norm , and I think even today too much emphasis is placed on it . Not all young people need to go to uni, and some do so to do degrees that will be of no use whatsoever.

Certainly when I was in school, uni was considered a place only the privileged went to, and for girls it was even less likely .

I'm also a reader as are both my sons , and I think that came from my dad who encouraged me from an early age. We were very close until he developed depression and withdrew from the world and my upbringing . I lack the energy now for studying , which I think is different to reading and I doubt I'd have the good health to cope with lectures.

[1aokgal]

Chamomile...

Sorry, I never received email from you though it is in various areas on the business site. If sent to a partner on the site they would directed on the me. I check my spam mail usually as something can end up there.

I respect education very much. My mother told me when I was young I "didn't need an education as likely I would marry and have children." That was a terrible, demeaning thing to say to an intelligent young woman! Nothing like fostering stupidity. While I was forced out of the home early and worked to support myself, step siblings went on to private schools and later universities.

I doubted myself when I began to take classes as even being able to do it. Yet, I found aptitude and interest to complete classses part time. Later at 31, I entered university for two years as a full time student. I was able to complete two degrees and work full time. There was tution aide available for two years but loans for much of my classes. Later law classes were really pricey but with hard work and loans it was possible.

As an executive secretary for an office on campus for a few years, I got reduced tuition for a time. I was willing to do anything to get the classes needed.

My children worked and with loans got university work. My daughter has a difficult time as her police work is in shifts. She needs to complete one last year for her degree. Lucky there are TV credit classes and classes available off campus to create ease for working students. She will find
upward mobility closed in state employment for one who wants to be an Accident Investigator. That is a highly technical field with certification required.

[Helen_uk]

I think that's exactly it , in some areas qualifications are vital. Such as your daughters 1aokgal.

I decided to study because for one thing I felt I'd missed out as I left ( or rather was removed ) from school only a couple of months before my exams would have started , I'd done all that work for nothing. And secondly because my marriage had broken up and I didn't want to end up doing menial work for a small wage, I needed a liveable income.

[chosen]

Helen
Reading is the key to learning. My son was a prolific reader from 4 years old, and by 6 was reading famous five books and similar. This lead to him being excellent at writing and spelling because he was reading so much, and at 5 he was writing little stories about He-man(do you remember He-man on tv? lol)with pictures etc. It was so sweet.
We always had loads and loads of books around, and all three of them loved books, stories etc They had stories read to them every night of their childhood. It does give them an excellent start.

You are right about when we were younger. When I was at secondary school in the late 60's and early 70's, even the girls there didnt all go to uni and that was a good grammar school. I am guessing that only about 20% overall went to uni then wheras now I think its about 55%. Of course uni then cost little, Tuition fees were free and they were all given a living allowance. I do wonder how many will be able to go to uni next year, when tuition fees treble in cost. They reckon that most will come out with £40,000 to £50,000 in loans to have to pay back, unless they live at home, and even then the tuition fees will have to be found. Its crazy.

yes its sad that you were forced to leave school so early.

[Helen_uk]

I remember He-man well chosen !

I first became aware my son was reading when he was just over 2 , I used to read him a story in bed each night, and he would pick a book . This particular night he had a new book and picked that one. Danger Mouse ! I was really tired and so tried to skip a sentence or two, he fixed me with a disgruntled stare and said " Mummy you didn't read all the words ". He was reading along with me lol.

I was a couple of years too late for the 11 plus and grammar schools had been abolished so I went to the local girls- only comprehensive , it was almost unheard of for girls there to go on to uni , in fact in my year out of around 250 girls only 2 that I know of went on to higher education after 6th form. To be honest the teaching standards were abysmal .

I refused to send either of my sons to the local comp . Eldest sat an entrance exam and went on a scholarship to a local public school and youngest went to a C of E school as a special needs student with a SEN , which meant he got support for his autism both in and out of the classroom . He also has dyspraxia and the school was fantastic at supporting him , I had to fight like a she-cat with the local council to get him that support though. I would have taken the decision to home school either or both sons rather than have them attend the local comp where neither those who are gifted or those that struggle get noticed or encouraged.

I left it to them to decide if they wanted uni or not , I'd have been just as happy had they told me they wanted to be plumbers or electricians !

[1aokgal]

It was the world that showed me how much education counted. When I worked menial jobs for low wages that barely met needs, it was obvious. I didn't want to spend a lifetime struggling so I changed the educational level. Since I had a "thirst" to learn it made sense. Reading is the most
important task for a mother to teach her children. Pre-schools, in the states, help working mothers and reaches younger childen to teach primary subjects before school age.

My mother exposed us to art galleries, great music, the planetarium, the Botanical Gardens and museums to instill a desire to learn. I enjoy today to share such trips with my grandaughter. These are inexpensive afternoons for families and wonderful opportunity to learn. We enjoy to live in a historical area which we enjoy so much. There are battlefields, monuments, restored small towns and great day trips.

When we lived in Europe we did faulous sightseeing. Who can forget a day in the Louvre or walking in Switzerland! Parents can open the world to young children in where they go and what they do together. These experiences with the kids remain all their lives. When we returned to the US our daughter spent two summers in Germany with relatives there. She had a wonderful time.

[Baroness]

I talked to my son today and he is a chemical biologist and never went to college for this. Years ago he got a job working in a scientists lab with cancer research and he discovered something that improved the research and then went on to another scientific job and now he is a chemical biologist. He plans on going back to college to get a degree but that is his title now without an schooling but experience only.

He is very intelligent and I'm proud of him. He's married and has a son whom I adore. My experience is with office procedures and I was an administrative assistant for 8 years at an aerospace co. I was working with dimension on blue prints and identifying aircraft parts among many other things. At nineteen I had my son and then later my daughter so I didn't return to school but worked in the clerical field and have over 20 years of experience.

I wouldn't say that my h isn't an interesting partner at all. He used to be a history teacher and is intelligent in some things, just not in relationships. My time is not spent waiting around for him to be present. He has his interests which I have shared previously and I have mine. There are times when we have a lot of fun and we love each other even though we are different in personality.

I have my quiet time too where I just want to be alone to do what I enjoy and the last thing I would need was a man demanding my time and attention. My entire existence does not center around him but he is important to me and when we do get together and spend time together it is good most of the time. He supports my writing and now my making hats and is easy to get along with most of the time.

We'd known each other for years before getting married and he's always been like this, which is fine with me to a certain degree. We don't demand anything from each other and this is what is important to me. We have the freedom to do what we want with the other ones support. I wouldn't be having a problem with his personality at all if it wasn't for the change in our sex life.

We work. We are exactly what each of us needed. Sometimes I don't want to be bothered with being around people when I'm busy with something and sometimes I do go out with friends or family. We don't have a dependent relationship. I'm glad he has his interests and we used to go to the canyon together but the women I was working with left so I didn't go back up.

I support him in his interests just like he supports me in mine. I don't want a man who is demanding or needy and I don't have one. He has led a very interesting life with his music, traveling around in a band and even his painting was interesting in the sense that it was for highrise buildings and for famous people.

When he was a child he had attention deficit so he thought he was stupid but yet he went on to teach history to children. He lost his hearing in one ear when he was young and they took the eardrum because at that time they weren't that advanced and so he's deaf in one ear. He has accomplished many things anyway and I am proud of him.

My issues with us making love have nothing to do with the man I think he is. He is the kindest man I've ever known and he can also be irritable and hard to deal with but over the years I have learned how to deal with him. I cannot, in all honesty, say that I regret meeting him even though we don't make love like we used to. I still say he's the best thing that ever happened to me, even with all the things we've gone through.

People call him the face of Monrovia because everyone knows him. He is in two parades a year and personally knows the mayor and has a picture with her. Everyone likes him, but everyone doesn't have to live with him. If he is the way he is it is because of the things he's had to go through long before he met me. He has his moments where he is thoughtful and romantic.

I didn't mean for my frustration over this problem we have to color him in a negative way. I get upset with him from time to time but that doesn't change the fact that I love him and I don't have to stay with him but I do. We work together, more than any other man I've ever known. He can be a jerk sometimes but if he is he has no problem with apologizing.

Except for this problem he has always been willing to talk about things and if I was at fault he's willing to just put it behind us. I have had to forgive him for things but I have done so. Yes, I like a macho man a little rough around the edges, if you know what I mean and that is why I miss our lovemaking so much. He was great, like a much younger man.

There is hope for him, there is hope for us, but right now I am happy. My happiness doesn't revolve around what a man does or doesn't do. This is not his fault and he is taking the vitamins to help. He has been more affectionate lately and this is what I like and need. You don't always have to roll around in bed to have affection.

I don't think our lovemaking days are entirely over because I thought that before and they weren't. This is a rough time for him and I have to stand by him, that doesn't mean its easy for me. He's a hard working man who has never had anything handed to him and he has overcome a lot of things to be prosperous.

My regret is that we could be much closer in a physical sense and could still be enjoying the passion we had for years. But as far as our day to day life goes as a couple, it is fine mostly and he was the man I chose and he still is today.

[Baroness]

I don't drive because I like to walk. Everything is close to me and when I did drive I didn't walk anywhere and was close to 200lbs. He takes me to appointments and my mother's and such. I do plan to drive again when I have enough money to buy a car and pay for the insurance.

I lost 20lbs just walking when my car konked out n 2004 and just started walking everywhere. I like to walk and it keeps me in shape and is enjoyable. Sometimes its a hassle if I need to be somewhere and I don't feel like walking but we have a van here at the apts. that will take us around town. Getting my own car is a goal of mine however and it will eventually happen but right now I have other things to think about.

[chosen]

baroness, I've never had a car for myself, and I have never needed or wanted one. We have always had a family car. I could never justify having one, because with a family car and buses and walking it just wasnt needed.
As you say Baroness, walking is so healthy. I walk at least an hour a day with our dog.I see neighbours of mine driving to the local shops which are 5 mins walk away, and driving their kids to school when they are only 10 mins walk. No wonder kids are less healthy and overweight these days.

Helen, all three of mine had to go to the local secondary school, but it does have a good reputation and gets good results, so I wasnt worried.

I feel like you about uni. It didnt bother me whether they went or not, as long as they do what they want to do. To be honest, people like electricians/builders/ plumbers are always in work and always seem to be quite well off, so to me that would have been a good career choice! I know quite a few of my friends children who have degrees who still havent got decent jobs from last year, so I do wonder whether they are always worth having. Sometimes getting an apprenticeship is a better option, and that is what the govt seem to be starting now.

[1aokgal]

In the US, our homes are not built close to the shops. There are zoning laws that limit shops in a residential area, as separate from any commercial use. There are strip mall shopping centers a long way outside the subdivisions of homes. There might be 3-4 housing areas, all with different designs and style houses, built around some theme. Here in my area the subdivsion has a recreation center and swimming pool for residents. Some families will pay a summer membership fee to use the pool and center. Many houses, like mine, an owner contracts to build an inground swimming pool designed to our taste and surrounded by a tall fence. The yards are large and well maintained usually by lawn care company or private gardener. This is a southern city beach resort, and it gets really hot in summer.

The cost of an inground pool is high, with considerable maintenance costs for chemicals for clear chlorine water. We figure it pays off for us to enjoy summers here than travel to a pricey vacation elsewhere. We barb-b-que and socialize in the Florida room of wicker lounge furniture with a luncheon table that overlooks the pool. I serve lunch there and we can sit casual in swimsuits to go back in the water. In the evening it is pleasant by special muted lighting or torchlight, to swim or have snacks and beverages there. We built a large deck by the pool for our barb-b-que grill, and room for loungues. It's hot days out there so there is an overhead fan there. Many pool owners have a Cabana, as we do, which is a small outer house to change swimsuits and store the pool/yard furniture and floats.

Cars ownership with insurance costs are the norm for American families. Most own multiple cars and family members work or go to school in separate directions. Only in larger cities as NYC or Washington, will one find rapid transit trains to take passengers to destinations quickly. They still must drive to the station or take a cab.

There are five major shopping centers in this area, plus a multitude of strip shopping with small shops. Our malls are inside built like little cities and contain as many as 40 shops and stores. They had similar malls in Germanys' larger cities. One parks on levels of a park house and walks through the inner shops. It is not possible to negotitate these far flung city areas without cars to go grocery shop. Walking is done on state park trails or the neighborhood, where joggers and bikers go safely. Dog walking ladies are always taking their animals through the subdivision. We are a nation of animal lovers with the majority of families who own either dog or cat.

Kids in high school have a car by the time they are 16, or a use an extra family car, as the schools are far in outlying areas from the homes. School busses take kids to school, but parents will buy a responsible son/daughter a car to enable them to participate in after hour sports or activities. The busses don't run that late. Since most families have two incomes, a wife will own a car to drive to her work, as generally they go in opposite directions.

The city buses are generally used by the poor, as the routes are limited and schedules with traffic erratic. This is a huge country with long distances usual to our shopping or downtown area. Rapid transit was built this year in my city, with limited routes to downtown. Most own cars and will continue to drive where they need to go. Workers don't want to lose a job for a late bus schedule.

When we lived in germany we biked to shop in nearby town. Here there are no friendly bike trails in the city, only in neighborhood areas, state parks or in the county. Ours is a system of highways and roads congested with workers going to far flung areas and unsafe for bikers. The plan to build more bike trails for recreation is often the subject of planning for more safe trails in nearby parks. We live very close to scenic man-made lake by a mountain on one side, and surrounded by profuse walking /jogging paths. We still have to drive over there to get inside though or cross an unsafe congested interesection.

[1aokgal]

Baroness,

You don't need to be concerned that posters here make judgment calls about your situation in regards to your husband.
It is obvious you love him deeply, even with his niches and habits, whatever. Like many men, he is an idiot not to understand what this does to you. He and my husband should have cattle prod shockers on their ankles to give them a jolt from time to time! Controls in our hands, right?

I paint my husband with the same brush. He is a decent man, hard working, loyal and generous to a fault, but is quite inscrutable to understand. I think we try to explain why we care so much and why we selected the men we love. I think that defies explanation! If I would say I would like another chance at the process, I would still choose the guy.

I know I'd rather spend time with him anywhere, than to be somewhere else. He is still the brightest, most interesting conversationalist I ever knew. I don't trust him to hammer in a nail though, as he is spacey on that kind of repair. He is awfully kind to me and always asks what it is I would like to do. He has the patience of Job to accompany me on shopping trips or gallery viewing or whatever is the agenda. I will tell him if he doesn't want to go there, we can do something different. He says,"What makes you think I don't enjoy to go see things you like?"

I think no one makes judgements here or assigns points when we talk about things of concern. We all just try to figure how to help and what to do. We all love happy endings and want happiness for everyone here.

[Chamomile]

I first became aware my son was reading when he was just over 2 , I used to read him a story in bed each night, and he would pick a book . This particular night he had a new book and picked that one. Danger Mouse ! I was really tired and so tried to skip a sentence or two, he fixed me with a disgruntled stare and said " Mummy you didn't read all the words ". He was reading along with me lol.



Hi

Is that your Son with more pronounced ASD, Helen?

[Chamomile]

Consellors/therapists etc can be very mixed. My husband and his ex saw counsellers who were supposedly trained and qualified who were useless. I cant believe what they did and to be honest they more or less drove an already shaky marriage over the edge. Even with training it doesnt always make people good at their job. We still need common sense and life experiences as well.

yes with serious mental health issues, you do need to have teaching and experience when you are dealing with people who are very ill, just as you need a doctor with training to deal with physical illness. Mind you I met a couple of totally useless phychiastrists who quite honestly didnt have a clue, but hopefully most are not like that.

I think that we were talking about general education levels as opposed to specific instances of where you do or dont need training.

I suppose that most teaching/training/degrees are, after all, mainly reading and studying as well as some practical parts (depending on what it is).

Thank you for that Helen. Maybe, God had spoken through you (I know you would hate me saying that x)

You obviously have had a lot of experience because of your son's condition.

It's really hard to say which therapist is better or OK etc. I have a clinical psychologist mainly for my physical illness but I did actually wish this lady had a direct experience with these type of issues as you seem to do, Helen.

I'm seeing her 4th time and am not quite sure if I like to continue.

[Chamomile]

I'm also a reader as are both my sons , and I think that came from my dad who encouraged me from an early age. We were very close until he developed depression and withdrew from the world and my upbringing . I lack the energy now for studying , which I think is different to reading and I doubt I'd have the good health to cope with lectures.

Have you thought about OU degree/courses? They seem to provide disability support?

[Chamomile]

1aokgal xxx

No problem, didn't realize you have so many email accounts. :)

I am enjoying your posts this morning. xxxx

[chosen]

Baroness,

You don't need to be concerned that posters here make judgment calls about your situation in regards to your husband.
It is obvious you love him deeply, even with his niches and habits, whatever. Like many men, he is an idiot not to understand what this does to you. He and my husband should have cattle prod shockers on their ankles to give them a jolt from time to time! Controls in our hands, right?

I paint my husband with the same brush. He is a decent man, hard working, loyal and generous to a fault, but is quite inscrutable to understand. I think we try to explain why we care so much and why we selected the men we love. I think that defies explanation! If I would say I would like another chance at the process, I would still choose the guy.

I know I'd rather spend time with him anywhere, than to be somewhere else. He is still the brightest, most interesting conversationalist I ever knew. I don't trust him to hammer in a nail though, as he is spacey on that kind of repair. He is awfully kind to me and always asks what it is I would like to do. He has the patience of Job to accompany me on shopping trips or gallery viewing or whatever is the agenda. I will tell him if he doesn't want to go there, we can do something different. He says,"What makes you think I don't enjoy to go see things you like?"

I think no one makes judgements here or assigns points when we talk about things of concern. We all just try to figure how to help and what to do. We all love happy endings and want happiness for everyone here.

I wasnt aware that any posters here have made judgement calls about her husband/marriage to be fair. It was clear from the start that they love each other and that he is a decent man. As you say, we all want her marriage to be a good one. Having a good and decent man is so precious.They seem to have so much good in the marriage, and also Baronness is learning so much about herself and coming closer to God through this,and that can only be good as well.

I babysat for a family last night, a new family who I have just started babysitting for ,and when I put the 5 year old to bed(there is also a nearly 2 year old) she was clearly upset when she told me that she cries a lot, because she misses her daddy so much. Her mum and dad arent together any more and mum has another man there. I almost wept. it was so sad. I babysit for another family where the dad left for another woman. Young children again, its tragic, dont these people realise what they are doing to their little ones for selfishness on their part? I hate to see it.


and

[chosen]

iaokgal
Most women here have 2 cars as well, and most have 2 incomes also, but when we moved here nearly 28 years ago, we choose it because it was near bus stops, schools and shops, so I have never needed one. It unusual for a family not to have 2 cars in thsi area, but when I was with my first husband we didnt have the spare money to run one,(even if I had wanted one) and also when I was a single mum I managed without a car at all for 6 years. I did the main shopping on line and they deliever it to the door and the rest I did at our local shops or got a bus to town. I used the buses a lot at that time.They are pretty good and reliable.

Yes I know that America has more out of town shopping centres, its like in Australia when my husband is from. I noticed that 5 years ago when we went there for 3 weeks. The shops are often sort of isolated from where the people live which seems strange to me, but we are getting far more of these out of town shops here as well now, with very large supermarkets etc. but fortunatly we still have the local shops and the smaller towns that are so easy to get to by car or bus. There are also buses to the out of town shops as well, for those who may be elderly and who no longer drive or who dont have cars. I often wonder how people cope in America and Australia when they can no longer drive through ill health or old age. My MIL had to stop drving and so became completely isolated, and couldnt go to church or even to the shops or doctors. MY husbands brother had to then run around doing everything for her, as well as working full time and having growing family.It was a great burden on him, but now she is in an old peoples unit which is brillant. Cars are great when you can use them, but people are totally lost if they become unable to drive.


Now we could afford 2 cars there isnt any need. One car seems more that sufficient for us. Our buisiness is run from home so my husband isnt out all day, so we usually go out together. His ex had her own car, but I just dont need one. I feel very blessed to have one car after 6 years without one.:)

[Chamomile]

Well, I have to say, Chosen. :) It's clear that Baroness is very sensitive to people's comments. 1aokgal is probably being protective of her Friend who had confided in her personally. It's a Mummy bear and her cub thing lol (mentioned with much endearment and affections x)

Many of these complex issues raised here really need to be dealt by qualified professionals and their therapists who work with them. And, their work may take years of assessments and may run up huge medical bills before they come up with any practical intervention (if ever).

At some point, professional intervention would need to take place after enough personal discussions were made and I guess ppl use a site like this in the interim.

This site cannot be a substitute for a proper professional intervention. It's after all a public site where unqualified and some qualified people contribute and voice what they think, which may be or may not be helpful. Our comments are not supervised by any external professional bodies. So, therefore quality could be hit or miss and it would be useful to have a "take it or leave it" attitude. Public sites or certain movies are not for people who are easily offended. It's largely unmonitored and uncensored. lol

Sometimes, personally I like to say something but I choose not to because it's not my call.

[chosen]

I think that people come here, not to get professional help, but to get others take on their situation and to see what others opinions and ideas are, based on their own life experiences.
I do know that people have been greatly helped by coming to forums such as this, because for many(especially men it seems) its the only place they can talk about it and get support. I think its great that we have places like this.
I am a moderator on a very large Christian forum(based in the USA but has world wide members), and its a great place to go to and talk and discuss and ask for advise.Its not a marriage forum (it has many many sections covering absolutely everything) but there is a marriage part of it. I have also been able to help quite a few people who have sent me private messages as well, so with that and being a moderator I see it as a job/ministry that God has led me into.(albeit an unpaid job. lol)

[Helen_uk]

Hi

Is that your Son with more pronounced ASD, Helen?


No Chamomile , that's my eldest son. Youngest who has the ASD really struggled in primary school. The way they were teaching just wasn't geared up for any child with any kind of difficulty . In the end I started to teach him phonetically at home , which was the way I learned to read although he still attended school everyday . He picked it up within a couple of weeks and went from not being able to read barely at all at age 4 , to having the reading age of a 17 year old at age 8. Youngest has the intelligence but sees things very literally and so if he struggled with anything I tried to find a different way of approaching it that he'd understand. Once he'd grasped the basics of something he would come on in leaps and bounds. Schools on the whole just don't have the resources for that kind of one-to-one teaching.His secondary school I must admit was far more supportive and his EA became a personal friend . Youngest was exhausting to bring up !

He had such behavioural problems from a young age that it was impossible to teach him anything he wasn't interested in , working with his psychologist was marvellous . I owe her a huge debt of gratitude for the support we had. She has 2 autistic children herself and really understood .

As for myself , I'm so ill now for such long periods of time I can barely function some days , let alone study . I doubt I'd have the patience or energy for formal studying.

[Helen_uk]

The UK governments over the last few years have discouraged driving by increasing the costs of motoring to get us all on to public transport .

The cost of fuel, insurance etc is prohibitive of having more than one car for lots of people. Eldest son passed his test at 17 and bought a small Ford fiesta for around £2000 , his yearly insurance costs were almost 3 times that amount ! He gave up driving when he started work as his job is office based , and his office is a 20 minute walk away from home. As he lives near to the city centre he decided he didn't need a car to socialise either and he's saved a considerable amount of money by not owning one.

I think in the US , from what I've seen, driving is far more necessary . Certainly friends who've been on holiday there said it's difficult to get to even local-ish shops without your own transport. I know fuel costs are rising there too , I only hope they don't end up at the same price as here in the UK

[1aokgal]

Chosen..

My post was addressed to Baroness. I picked up on her concern that when she talked about her husband. She said "she was concerned someone might get a negative view." I wanted to reassure her that was NOT the case. Of course, I have not noticed ,Chosen , you are so sensitive about others, feelings or you would not respond to my post to her. You were quick to pick apart my post, weren't you?

Baroness said this:
I didn't mean for my frustration over this problem we have to color him in a negative way. I get upset with him from time to time but that doesn't change the fact that I love him and I don't have to stay with him but I do. We work together, more than any other man I've ever known. He can be a jerk sometimes but if he is he has no problem with apologizing.

I think she feels bad to discuss this and that is obvious here. She is loyal to her man and wanted no one to think badly. YEESH!

[1aokgal]

Chamomile...

Dear lady, you are right on track as usual.:) That was exactly why I posted a reassurance to Baroness.

I think one thing in the states we rely on our multi-cars because of wide flung distances between work and home. My husbands ship, when it is in port, is 45 minutes away in the next city a long drive each day with delays through a bridge or tunnel. The gas for that daily trip at almost $4 gal was something. We cars that require supreme gas, so no econemy cars. Americans will continue the love affair with large cars and pay to drive. We don't drive less, but realize we spend more of the budget today on gas.

We have a propane gas log fireplace in the family room. It is wonderful, cozy to sit with hot chocolate in a toasty room in the morning. It is a large house with electric heat but the fireplace is gas. All the extra things that families support today impacts the quality of life and harmony. Most middle class families have great concern for our retirement funds and how we manage our money and manage to save. The sopping malls are sparse in customers from what I see of the parking lots going by in the week. There was a time when it is hard to find a free space to park. All these factors effect our marriages when people have stress about jobs, or no jobs.

Buses are seldom used by the public, so maybe 10 people ride in a near empty bus. The stops don't go far, don't meet needs and those who use them use them would need to transfer to get somewhere. We are a nation that depends on cars since the work places are far outlying and not cropped into large city centers. When a person needs a ride to clinic, they take a cab or handi-wagon and pay a trip fee. That is a mini bus that goes direct to local clinics or locations needed for handicapped or elderly.

Most of America is not in huge inner cities but far flung system of malls. Employment for skilled and technical trades is far outside edge of the city and homes areas. Nobody wants to live in a ghetto city, but in well planned pretty curved neighborhood streets, as homes with trees and well maintained yards. We employ a gardener who maintains our yard on his route and he has a couple guys. He plants and keeps our flower beds and trees beautiful.

In Germany the yards were small and co-opped with rentals, so we had a garden plot rented outside the city area. That was a laugh for us! It became full of weeds and wouldn't grow as we are not adept at keeping a pot plant alive, let alone a whole garden. It is not one of my skills. I work hard to not kill two hanging plants on the front porch area all summer. I get stress over the blasted things!

[chosen]

The UK governments over the last few years have discouraged driving by increasing the costs of motoring to get us all on to public transport .

The cost of fuel, insurance etc is prohibitive of having more than one car for lots of people. Eldest son passed his test at 17 and bought a small Ford fiesta for around £2000 , his yearly insurance costs were almost 3 times that amount ! He gave up driving when he started work as his job is office based , and his office is a 20 minute walk away from home. As he lives near to the city centre he decided he didn't need a car to socialise either and he's saved a considerable amount of money by not owning one.

I think in the US , from what I've seen, driving is far more necessary . Certainly friends who've been on holiday there said it's difficult to get to even local-ish shops without your own transport. I know fuel costs are rising there too , I only hope they don't end up at the same price as here in the UK

You are right Helen, Running a car here is terribly expensive. For young people especially the insurance alone is rediculous and as you say petrol prices are very very high. It just isnt worth running one unless you have to. My daughter lives in Oxford, and like your son, got a job that she can walk to(a fair walk mind you) and there are such good bus services that she doesnt run a car at this time.Also parking is real problem in Oxford as well, with many residents needing resident parking permits. Her fiance runs a car but he lives in Wales, so there arent the parking problems there, althought its still just as expensive to run one.
My son and his new wife share a car, as he runs her part way to work and she gets a bus the rest of the way, and then he drives to his work. I doubt they will ever get 2 cars, its just not worth it for them, and so expensive.

I believe that petrol cost in the USA are only about 1/4 of what they are here, so that makes an enormous difference.

[Helen_uk]

I used to live at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire and even then if we went shopping in Oxford it wasn't worth taking the car , it was quicker by bus than driving round for an hour looking for a parking space, that was over 25 years ago so I should imagine things have only gotten worse.

Where my fiance is just outside Southampton there is a local train station and a decent amount of buses, in Coventry where my house is however the bus services are terrible. They rarely turn up on time , if at all and very expensive and normally full ( we live near the end of the bus route ) , it's quicker to walk if going into the city centre . The government needs to ensure public transport is fit for use if they are going to try to get people out of their cars here. We live in an inner city area,in the more rural areas the buses even worse. I used to live on the outskirts of Coventry and there was a bus every 2 hours into Cov !

Gosh this thread has gotten right off topic !

Apologies Baroness .

[1aokgal]

Chosen...

Stop policing others posts would work as well. Dissecting every post is annoying.

[chosen]

Helen
My younger daughter lived in Southampton for a year, and she said the buses were good there.
I think that Oxford being a university town with 2 uni's, they have made sure that the buses are frequent and reliable. You rarely seem to have to wait long.
Where I live in N.W Surrey we only have 2 buses an hour now, it used to be three, so they are cutting down. I dont need to use them much now that I am married again and we have a car, but they are quite well used, especially by youngsters getting to work/college/school, or the elderly who get free travel and who cant drive any more. My youngest daughter used them for years to get to college, and then work, but since she moved out again she lives nearer and can even walk to work now(about 30 mins walk). Its all good exercise though, but mind you she is on her feet all day at work at the library as well.

You are a long way from your fiances home arent you. Southampton to Coventry is a fair way. Have you set a date yet? My older daughter gets married in April, and has just got her dress.Very exciting!

[1aokgal]

Regarding the transportation issue. That is an example that life is more complicated today as we are not the small towns of yesterday where everyone knew their neighbors. That is one of the reason there is more feeling people have to feel isolated with their problems.

We also share the worlds' problems that come into our living rooms in living color. It is nice to know that we all come from different places, but we do care about others here. Sad to see the riots in London and the distress of many worried about the econemy, jobs and the future.

I agree, Chamomile, that one who shares advise with seekers here has to realize that comes with a liability. Some can be very upset and we are not professionals, so often hear what a person won't tell anyone else.

[1aokgal]

Chosen..

You are the poster girl of annoying last words. YEESH!

[Helen_uk]

No date set as yet ... The house I share with my sons in Coventry is rented until Feb, eldest son wants to buy a flat so needs some time to sort that out , youngest will probably move with me .

Once eldest is sorted I can then think about marriage and move here permanently .

Yes, we are a fair way apart , lots of travelling back and forth to begin with , but lately I've been spending more time in Southampton . We started out as friends who had a common interest in music and it stayed that way for quite a while , we met online and after my last experience it took a while for me to be comfortable with it turning into a relationship. Now I can look forward to the future .

[Chamomile]

No Chamomile , that's my eldest son. Youngest who has the ASD really struggled in primary school. The way they were teaching just wasn't geared up for any child with any kind of difficulty . In the end I started to teach him phonetically at home , which was the way I learned to read although he still attended school everyday . He picked it up within a couple of weeks and went from not being able to read barely at all at age 4 , to having the reading age of a 17 year old at age 8. Youngest has the intelligence but sees things very literally and so if he struggled with anything I tried to find a different way of approaching it that he'd understand. Once he'd grasped the basics of something he would come on in leaps and bounds. Schools on the whole just don't have the resources for that kind of one-to-one teaching.His secondary school I must admit was far more supportive and his EA became a personal friend . Youngest was exhausting to bring up !

He had such behavioural problems from a young age that it was impossible to teach him anything he wasn't interested in , working with his psychologist was marvellous . I owe her a huge debt of gratitude for the support we had. She has 2 autistic children herself and really understood .


Hi

That's really interesting and so delightful to read as to how much you were able to help your Son, Helen.

I used to know someone whose 6 children were on the spectrum in varying degrees that her h had to stop working to care for their children (all boys). I have known some ppl with ASD and one was in fact, close to me when I was growing up. People with ASD tend to have some (unusual) special talent.

[chosen]

Sounds exciting Helen
I didnt realise that you met online. I am sure that you know that we did as well. Its getting a very common way to meet someone these days. I think its great as we are able to get to know others who arent in our area that normally we would never meet.

I do like Southampton. When we used to visit my daughter when she lived there, I always liked it. There seem to be lot of parks, and also you have the sea as well which is a bonus.
Yes its sounds as if you have a good future. Do you sons get on with him?

[Chamomile]

Chamomile...

Dear lady, you are right on track as usual.:) That was exactly why I posted a reassurance to Baroness.

In Germany the yards were small and co-opped with rentals, so we had a garden plot rented outside the city area. That was a laugh for us! It became full of weeds and wouldn't grow as we are not adept at keeping a pot plant alive, let alone a whole garden. It is not one of my skills. I work hard to not kill two hanging plants on the front porch area all summer. I get stress over the blasted things!

Hi 1aokgal xxx

You got mail.

Thank you for your sweet and thoughtful words as always.

I'm no massive fan of ornamental hanging baskets myself, to be honest - you know that Horticulture is a British favourite past time. LOL LOL

[Chamomile]

I am a moderator on a very large Christian forum(based in the USA but has world wide members), and its a great place to go to and talk and discuss and ask for advise.Its not a marriage forum (it has many many sections covering absolutely everything) but there is a marriage part of it. I have also been able to help quite a few people who have sent me private messages as well, so with that and being a moderator I see it as a job/ministry that God has led me into.(albeit an unpaid job. lol)

Yes, I realize you are more than dedicated in helping others, Chosen :)

[Helen_uk]

Yes, Southampton isn't a bad city although where my fiance lives is the other side of the M27 and classed as New Forest District.

I've always loved the sea , and having spent most of my life in the landlocked Midlands, it's wonderful that it will be so close.

I was wary about meeting online, last LTR was met online and it did put me off somewhat . This was different I guess as we met through common interests rather than a romantic relationship and being good friends first meant we built solid foundations. My sons were understandably also very wary at first , we all had such a horrendous experience with the ex... but they get on with him really well, he's a very laid back person and youngest son visits him almost as much as I do !.

Chamomile , youngest sprog was hard work but rewarding ! I guess if you have a child then you do what you have to do to give them a good start in life. The first few years, prior to his diagnosis were the hardest . Once we knew what we were dealing with it got easier. I've often said that had he been the first child he would have been an only child !

[1aokgal]

Chamomile...

Please do come over and save my hanging flower baskets. My family kids me I am the "black death" to these baskets. They are pretty for a couple months before I drown them or starve them of water! I love flowers and buy only rose bushes known to survive people like me.

[Chamomile]

I was wary about meeting online, last LTR was met online and it did put me off somewhat . This was different I guess as we met through common interests rather than a romantic relationship and being good friends first meant we built solid foundations. My sons were understandably also very wary at first , we all had such a horrendous experience with the ex... but they get on with him really well, he's a very laid back person and youngest son visits him almost as much as I do !.

Chamomile , youngest sprog was hard work but rewarding ! I guess if you have a child then you do what you have to do to give them a good start in life. The first few years, prior to his diagnosis were the hardest . Once we knew what we were dealing with it got easier. I've often said that had he been the first child he would have been an only child !

Hi

What type of music :) Sorry for being so nosey..lol lol

I'm sorry to hear your have some Health issues at the moment. Hope things will start to improve very soon (it's been very hot isn't it? - much hotter than last year to my mind).

You have done so well, Helen. You are a Good Mother. You deserve to be Happy with your new man. All the best, xxx

[Chamomile]

Chamomile...

Please do come over and save my hanging flower baskets. My family kids me I am the "black death" to these baskets. They are pretty for a couple months before I drown them or starve them of water! I love flowers and buy only rose bushes known to survive people like me.

LOL! LOL!

"Yes, 1aokgal, on my way...." :D

[Helen_uk]

1aokgal,

Hanging baskets are really difficult to keep looking good ! I recently gave up on mine and replaced them with some wall art that doesn't need watering . I'm all for removing things that cause me stress !

Rock music Chamomile , my fiance's business is websites ( and at one time before the recession, shops ) that sell music merchandise and that's how we got chatting :)

[Baroness]

First, I'd like to say to Chamomile that I don't totally agree that a session with a professional is required, not in my case. I wouldn't accept things said from a professional necessarily because she doesn't know me or my h and if we went together (which would never happen) I wouldn't say such personal things as I do on here.

I'm talking to other women on here, sometimes men, who I know have been through things similar. What I needed I received on this site. I got insights from a christian point of view and also 1aokgal has been through basically the same thing so she has helped me more than anything. I doubt a professional would talk about my creative side such as making hats and if she hadn't experienced what I have then I probably wouldn't accept her advice.

I have talked to a professional years back with my second husband cheated on me and she helped quite a lot but for this problem I wanted to hear what other women said and thought who had experienced it as well. I received the help I needed and as you can see I am in a much better frame of mind because of it.

1aokgal, I didn't say that about painting my h in a bad light because of what any one person would think. I realized that I was only saying bad things about him and to understand my situation fully everyone should know that he isn't a terrible person at all. It was kind of for myself as well because I realize that there are many good things about him that I might not have posted.

The more information you have about him and me, the better you can understand and give helpful advice. Of course you don't have to give me helpful advice, it isn't a condition for me being on here, but I have gotten good advice nevertheless. I have no problem telling anyone about how I feel on here.

I have a problem with talking to my friends and family because of their reaction. They would just say to leave him, like my daughter has told me upon occasion. I told her I know she doesn't understand but we work together as a couple and if I didn't find something good in him I would not stay and she knows this to be true.

Chamomile, I encourage you to post on here any time you like and to me in particular because I always want to hear what you have to say. You don't have to be a professional, you're a woman, aren't you? That gives you all the qualifications you need. I take most things to God because I think he is the real professional.

Reading the bible and praying does help me quite a lot and I will continue to do so. When I get upset with him I tell it on here, I don't even bother telling my best friend anymore because she wants me to do something about it right now, like leave, and she is not a christian so she sees everything cut and dry but then again, she hasn't had a relationship in 20 years.

I do talk to my mother but she only has the view of a christian and tells me that God is going to fix everything and that I shouldn't even admit there is a problem with my man or with my back condition. I don't believe that way anymore, not admitting there is a problem doesn't help because its best to face things head on and deal with it instead of pretending everything is okay.

I used to believe the way she does and was living in a dream world and told myself it will be better tomorrow or next day. Kind of like Scarlett in Gone with the 'I can't think about this now, I'll think about it tomorrow.'

I still get a little upset when I'm in here doing my hats or something and he's in there and I suspect I know what he's doing and it still really bothers me. The not knowing is the hard part and late at night is when I think about it most. I can't believe that he doesn't miss our touching and lovemaking. I'm afraid that he is in a pattern now and although I can't prove it, this is what he has chosen to do, take the lazy way out and not even try. I still have moments when I'm angry about it and sad because its such a waste of our time. We could be enjoying each other.

This will never be okay for me. I know that as well as I know my own name. I have managed to live with it and not dwell on it constantly and of course I am doing a lot better, I don't resent him all the time like I was and I have told my friends and family that I intend to stay with him. I can only speak for my feeling of now, who knows what will happen in the future? No one does but I have to stay with him because I love him. I feel he is slighting me and cheating me out of something wonderful and last night I had a dream and in it he was packing up to leave me.

We were not in our place but somewhere else. I went to him to ask him what he was doing and suddenly we were all over each other and he was kissing me and touching me and he said, "Lets see if this thing will work tonight." We started to make love on the bed and I thought, 'I can't wait to go on the thread and tell everyone that it finally happened!' The dream ended there. Its hard for me to accept that we will never be together again.

I've thought that way before and he suddenly wanted to make love to me so I can't rule it out completely. To do so would be to admit that I will live without this for the rest of my life and I just can't see myself doing that. I don't want anyone else and so this is quite a problem for me. I am handling it the best way I can, trying to acknowledge the good things in our life and everything we've been through together and all our good memories as well. But this is a constant battle and I just would like to know if I'm going to win in the end.

[chosen]

helen
I am glad that your sons get on well with him, that so so important isnt it. My son took to my husband immediately, but he had left home by then. The girls who were still at home were also very wary, like your boys after their terrible experiences with their own dad, and the last thing they wanted was another 'father figure' around again thank you very much.
However with time and a LOT of patience on his part, they came round and now they all have a brilliant relationship with him. In fact he is their dad really, because they have no contact with their own dad.
Its really good to have a guy who is laid back and patient isnt it. So refreshing, and it makes for a very relaxed home.I love my laid back Aussie man!

I also love the New Forest by the way, in fact all that area down to Swanage and Bournmouth and Poole. Around Poole is one of the places that my older daughter anf fiance may live after they marry.They could do a lot worse.

[1aokgal]

The site helped me when I first posted here. I no longer worked 55 hour weeks for a firm and just began to work from the home. There was a transition getting others to repect my time was valuable. I couldn't be on the phone a lot or go to lunch without losing time needed here. The special orders were difficult to get out in time and I needed to work that out. There are customer inquiries and deadlines on the projects. Family had to get it I couldn't always be interrupted or I would fall behind some order.

I felt somehat isolated spending so much time in the workroom or studio. This subject was not a problem I wanted to discuss with others. Just getting it out was better than steaming in silence. Sometimes now things no longer seems to matter. I learned to gift myself with creative joy and enjoy the time I paint or work alone. This paid off in some lovely things I am proud to show. Painters have a voice inside that needs to talk and making something beautiful is peaceful.

I also created several paintings that I believe were painted through me rather than my skill. Ah...that is a whole different subject and it is a spirit filled time.
Baroness may just beginning to get how sweet is that time.

[Baroness]

I've been looking at hats on etsy for awhile and have saved some, 1aokgal and I was busy cooking so I didn't get to work on my hat but I did yesterday for several hours and I can't remember ever working so hard. The time just flew by. Then I went on line to learn how to make silk flowers with ribbon and I just didn't get it by their directions.

Then I went on line and on ebay to see if I could order some. I have flowers but I don't know if they are silk, I didn't check that and just realized that they should be. I've had that movie I ordered for him and I to watch and its just been sitting there so today when he came home I said I would like to watch it and he agreed.

I thought it was funny but he didn't seem to overly like it, maybe because they were talking about erectyle disfunction but it was a comedy so maybe he didn't appreciate it. towards the evening I asked him if he was tired because he wasn't talking much and he said yes. He was kind of boring today, I have to admit but I was busy anyway.

Regarding him and our relationship there just doesn't seem to be much I look forward to anymore. What is there really? HIm kissing me but not really kissing me? Going to bed alone all the time? Watching reruns with him? No, there doesn't seem to be much to look forward to.

He didn't even rave about the lemon cheesecake with blueberries on top that I made from scratch. He thanked me when I gave it to him and then that was it and I put a lot of work into that. I usually have to ask him if he liked it and he always says yes but i don't feel like asking him anymore. He just sits there like he's dead or uninterested in life.

I know he's tired but he didn't do that much. He mans a kiosk on the weekends so I can't see how that would tired him out. Its almost as if he's worried about something but he won't tell me if i ask and most of the time I don't find out until a few days have past.

I am getting a little tired of this. This wasn't one of our better days and i'm looking into the future and wondering how I'm going to survive years like this or worse. It's my fault. I knew what he was like in the beginning but at least then we had hot sex to fall back on. I suppose I'm just venting and I am rather tired so I should just go to bed and not bore you all with t his anymore.

[Patchouli]

I've stumbled across this post, after what happened with my husband this past weekend (see my post). I am trying to read through and glean some information which will hopefully help me.

May I add myself to the list of christian women who does enjoy sex.

[Chamomile]

Rock music Chamomile , my fiance's business is websites ( and at one time before the recession, shops ) that sell music merchandise and that's how we got chatting :)

Hi Helen xxx

That's fantastic, Helen. My h and I love music of all sorts (rock music included) also. I'm thinking of getting myself a turn table when I could find a reasonably priced one.

Yes, hope changing his routine won't be too upsetting for your Son by moving house, too. I have a cousin with severe ASD and I have no words to describe my deep respect for you. I believe that Southampton has its University hospital NHS which I seem to keep hearing good things on news etc which might be useful.

xxxx

[Helen_uk]

Hi Chamomile,

Vinyl is making a come back at the moment , we are finding we sell quite a bit of it now. Kids today are starting to appreciate that it doesn't have to be on an i-pod to be fun ! Lots of bands also bring out their music on limited edition picture discs or coloured vinyl that is an investment for the future as it gains in value if looked after properly.

When Paul ( youngest son ) first started visiting Southampton , it took him a while to settle, but he loves it now and looks forward to visiting , you're right in thinking autistics don't like change but as life is full of change it's something they have to learn to deal with to a certain extent . I have little tricks that help lol. The one person I will miss is Heather , his psychologist from CAMHS , although strictly speaking she sees children and teens and Paul is almost 22 now , she became such a good friend and still provides a wealth of info and support if I need it. Every child with ASD should have a Heather !

[Chamomile]

Hi Chamomile,

Vinyl is making a come back at the moment , we are finding we sell quite a bit of it now. Kids today are starting to appreciate that it doesn't have to be on an i-pod to be fun ! Lots of bands also bring out their music on limited edition picture discs or coloured vinyl that is an investment for the future as it gains in value if looked after properly.

When Paul ( youngest son ) first started visiting Southampton , it took him a while to settle, but he loves it now and looks forward to visiting , you're right in thinking autistics don't like change but as life is full of change it's something they have to learn to deal with to a certain extent . I have little tricks that help lol. The one person I will miss is Heather , his psychologist from CAMHS , although strictly speaking she sees children and teens and Paul is almost 22 now , she became such a good friend and still provides a wealth of info and support if I need it. Every child with ASD should have a Heather !

Hi Helen xxx

I was wondering if you have got a website for this music store of yours? I realize this site does not have a private messaging system. Do you still have a store going? (Sorry didn't mean to be so nosey lol)

Yes, you are so right. :) It's good that you wouldn't keep him too overprotected and he enjoys what this world has to offer. "Heather" sounds like a wonderful person. I trust that you and your new man will make his life even more enriched, wholesome, fun and exciting.

xxxx

[Helen_uk]

Hi Chamomile,

Yes we have 3 websites . The main one sells all kinds of rock music merchandise , one sells New Rock boots and shoes and the other the more extreme hardcore rock metal music . I'll leave a message for you as I'm not sure the site will allow a web url.

Yes Heather is a rock , a psychologist with personal experience of the problem they are dealing with is always a bonus :)

[Chamomile]

Hi Chamomile,

Yes we have 3 websites . The main one sells all kinds of rock music merchandise , one sells New Rock boots and shoes and the other the more extreme hardcore rock metal music . I'll leave a message for you as I'm not sure the site will allow a web url.

Yes Heather is a rock , a psychologist with personal experience of the problem they are dealing with is always a bonus :)

Hi Helen xxx

That's fantastic, thank you so much!! xxxx

I was wondering if your h used to run a record shop in Southampton if you don't mind me asking this? I know there's none left in SH.

Yes, I completely agree with you re. a psychologist. Mine is a nice person; she seems very young as well but she doesn't seem to have enough direct experience, unfortunately. It's really helpful of you to be so willing to share your experience. I much appreciated it so much. I have been thinking about it. I might start to look out for a "Heather" LOL LOL

xxxxxx

[Helen_uk]

He had a shop in The Marlands shopping centre and one in Totton until a couple of years ago , but he sold band merchandise rather than vinyl .

The recession hit him pretty bad so now he just has the websites , which don't come with a £40,000.00 a year rent !

I'm the same with doctors Chamomile ( of which I've seen a lot lately ! ) I do prefer them to be older .. They always seem more experienced then .
xx

[Baroness]

Hello Patchouli, welcome. I did go back and skim some of your posts. Did you ever get the divorce? I know how painful divorce can be because I've had two of them. I don't know how I could have married such men but there you have it. One was a drug addict it turned out and the other cheated on me.

When there are children involved, and there were, it is especially different. I've never posted on any other post but this one but after looking up your posts I see that there are at least a couple that I would be interested in. If you've read any of my posts you know that I am living with a h who does not make love to me anymore and we used to have a great sex life.

I came on here to see if anyone else was going through the same thing and there were and I am doing so much better now. 1aokgal inspired me to make hats and I love it. When I first came on here I was ready to leave my h because it was just too much to handle.

He is nine years older and says he loves me but I didn't understand and was sure I could go out and find someone else. I'm sure I could but I decided to stay with him and pray for him and I have to say that I am no longer so angry and frustrated. I just found out from him that he has been very worried about finances and that could account for his recent behavior.

He does not watch porn but I'm pretty sure he m and this is very hard for me to take and also the fact that he gives me stupid excuses why he doesn't sleep with me and make love to me, like I'd really believe them! It sounded as though you had a really hard time of it and I hope it is better because if you don't have respect from a spouse it is unforgiveable.

[1aokgal]

Hi Patchouli...

Welcome here. I have seen your name posted elsewhere. I will read some posts later.

Today was a quite lovely day for me. I picked up my grandaughter, 13. She is an exquisite girl with the most wonderful hair and nice personality. We went for lunch, did errands, and came home here to swim. I shortened straps on 3 sun dresses I bought for her last week. I got a nice sewing pattern for a wrap skirt and I will finish that for her tonight.

She is excited to model for my designed victorian dresses. It is a pleasure to teach her basics of sewing and painting. She can work with me in the upstairs studio as I hope to encourage her learning. If only someone had been interested in me and given me what I can give her, which is a seedling for her life! I can teach her sewing, painting portraits and creating fine porcelain vases. So these are skills she might never learn otherwise.

I worked with these skills enough to show at fine galleries. That all developed as I applied myself to these arts. If everything had been perfect, I would have concentrated on my relationship as the world, when it is not. Do you realize how free that is to know that there is a huge world outside the door? We can choose to be more than the limited roles we may assign ourselves.

I was a mother but still could take time to apply my creative talent and ability to other things. It was a gift I gave myself to learn all I could about these disciplines.

When I was younger, it was about survival and childrens' needs. So I was actually 40 when I began to paint on canvas. There were no drawing lessons, more than grade school, though for some years I developed how to paint on fine porcelain, even to portraits on them. These are fired in a kiln. Most people would never consider to learn this rare artform. It was through books I learned the basics of this china painting. It is a beautiful craft and actually was taught to Victorian women. This art was considered a "ladylike" art and takes considerable time, since it is fired in a kiln. European women first brought the skill to America.

The art of oil painting on canvas came in a dream that I could paint. Miraculously, I found that to be true and discovered passion was more than loving another, it was loving me enough to let God enter into my soul as the brush moved on canvas. There are so many hours I lost touch with any mundane events because I did something fine and good that came from inside myself.

All this gives me the notion that we, as humans, are rather minute in the scheme of things. All of mans' thoughts and feelings seem on a plane of spirituality that one can access by reaching beyond the minute that we live now. There actually is a belief about the "Akashic records" being the repository for all the thoughts of man. It is like a lending library and one who creates peace inside can access these thoughts. I won't go into it so much here as that is a study in itself.

In creating a calm place inside myself it is not that I don't love him, rather than I love me and God more. I don't have to turn myself inside out for the convenience of another. When you seek to make another into everything, you lose part of yourself. My world isn't so small as it used to be.

I urge you to give yourself the gift of the world. Go visit fine art galleries. Give yoursef fine music to elevate you heart and lift you from this minute. Find the happiness that lies within and experience that fully in how you regard your surroundings. Make everything around yourself something you can enjoy and find satisfaction in this place. Live in the moment that is better because you don't think about what you lack, you consider all you have. Creativity lifts ones heart and frees the mind and gives a happiness to those who will find something that is a passion.

I'm glad to open that path to Baroness. I hope it will give her what these things have given to me.
Hats are beautiful and inspire one to learn design and execution of fabric and ribbon. Women through history found this a skill path to happiness and in many cases, even wealth. Coco Chanel was milliner.

I think that volunteer work is a great thing. I worked a phone line years ago at a Suicide Crisis Center and often manned the overnight shift, a high stress time for callers. I was a full time mature working student, and had just had met my husband. He took me to morning coffee more than once when my nerves were jangled from those calls. It was good to help others.

So if you can, beyond your own troubles, lift anothers' burden or go beyond self, than do it. We talk about what we wish was different. Make it different for yourself. Truth is, we can't change another. Let them be reponsible for their own space and choices. I will live for me. Perhaps that is selfish? It seems fruitless to ask another to give you what they will not. I am happy with my space and what I have around me. It does take a little work to think through to serenity.

[Chamomile]

Could you go and stay with your mum again for a while? She helped you so much last time and she seems to have an amazing faith. It would give you both a break from all this, and some time of reflection and time to spend with God as well. I completely agree. Hope you will find inner peace soon, B xxxx

[frogprincess]

Hello, have joined this just to make this post, as understand what you are going through.

In my case it is an aspect of the fact that my husband has Aspergers sydrome, to other women, on the outside, he seems like a 'perfect' husband.

Many of the posts here seem to indicate aspects that the husband may have Aspergers, particularly having some interest in sex to secure the relationship, then not responding to enticements, tears or threats to leave due to the emotional and sexual breakdown of the relationship.

It may be worth researching Aspergers and relationships to see if spouses show other aspects of this condition. It helps to understand it, but it doesnt make it any easier to live with. x

[Raymond]

Do husbands with Aspergers not like sex then?

[chosen]

Thats what I was going to ask Raymond.

[Helen_uk]

People with Asperger's have sensory problems, some don't like to be touched at all . I should imagine that would make sex very difficult for them.

My son hated to be cuddled even as a baby and even now ( at 22 ) he dislikes being touched for more than a very short while .

They also have a lack of empathy and so are unlikely to feel someone else's pain easily, this can make getting emotionally close to them very difficult.

[Raymond]

Interesting, but whether the desire to have sex overcomes their dislike of being tactile remains a question.

One of my sons was suspected of having Aspergers at one point but he never really came out one way or the other. His wife is always grabbing him and holding him. He doesn't seem to respond but doesn't resist either. As far as I know they are having sex as she has spoken about birth control until she qualifies to be a doctor.

[Raymond]

Crumbs! He just rang and his wife is pregnant! I have to sit down. Proof of the pudding and all that. Obviously did away with birth control.

[chosen]

Congratulations grandad!!!!!!Has she qualified then?

[Raymond]

No she hasn't yet but they obviously decided to let it happen if it did. They have to work out things regarding her qualification but I think she is set on being a doctor from when she was a little girl.