Is it over?

[Houston-TN]

Guys, I never thought it would come to this and it seems like this is a surreal experience.
Been married 18 years. Been together with her for 20.

We started out dating and partying. We got married and had a boy after five years of marriage. At that point she told me she wasn't sure if she loved me anymore. It affected me pretty bad but I thought we had gotten through that. I let her have as much freedom as she wanted and she made friends with this single girl and they startegoing out and partying together. I thought giving her as much freedom as possible was important to her and it would make her happy. It didn't. It just made her more independent.

Over the years I gave her as much freedom as she wanted. She never appreciated it and seems to just driven us farther apart. We started going to church and she goes too. But she still wants to go to bars and party. She finally got her degree and is now a police officer/journalist. She's called a public information officer. Now she has friends that she goes out with from work and she spends a lot of time with men that I don't know. She even conveniently leaves out the fact that when she goes to lunch, it's usually with men she works with. I wouldn't have known this except for the fact that a friend of mine saw her eating lunch with a guy and a girl on a particular day when she had told me she was eating lunch with a girl only. At this point I don't think she is having an affiar. But she has completely lost interest in me.

She once told me that since our son was born she has had no interest in sex. She didn't want to have anymore kids but after 8 years of begging she says she gave in and now we have a beautiful four year old daughter.

Boy! This is complicated. That's most of the background on her. As for me, because I wanted to get ahead in my career, while she was raising our baby daughter, I've been travelling about 2-3 weeks a month for the past four years. I did this for us as I hate it . Now, thank God, I'm going back to coming home every night but I don't feel like I'm coming home to much of a home...

My wife wants to keep on going to the bars and hanging out with her friends. When I complain about it, she says that she's an adult and can do what she wants, she wants to have fun and the day that she can no longer have fun then she may as well die. ??????????

I don't agree with this stance at all. I thought Christians aren't supposed to act like this. I have no desire to act like this. Is she shallow? I said the word shallow to her and she blew up!

The bottom line is this; I've put up with a lot from my wife over the years. I haven't been the best husband in the world but I've tried to make her happy. I've done everything I can possibly think of to get her to love me back. Materially, I've given her cars, diamonds, an expensive home, and I would do more if I thought it would help. Emotionally, I've been there for her. I have tried guys...

At this point after 18 years of trying, I feel like it's over. I am not on her list of priorities. Her job and her friends mean everything to her and I don't feel like I'm anything but an obligation. In fact, that's where i finally gave up on us. She told me that to her, sex is an obligation. I've given up and it took a long time to get to this point but I'm not going to try try anymore. The ball is in her court. I'm tired of looking like a fool...

[London]

Houston-TN ,

Its a shame its come down to this, but to be honest, the writing was on the wall already BEFORE year 5. The fact that you managed to drag out this marriage for so long is a testimony to the fact that people insist in living in denial and enjoy dusting issues under the rug.

Yes, according to you, you did "everything" to "make her love you" - except you didn't. You just can't "make" people love you. Did her not want to make love to you raise any alarm bells? The fact that you had to "beg" her to have another child was actually very selfish on your part.

You say you gave "her as much freedom as she wanted" but that "it just made her more independent." - Excuse me? You don't own your wife and while marriage is a compromise, you can't dictate to her who she can eat lunch with or whether she is allowed to even hold a job! Maybe she didn't tell you that she eats lunch with men becuase she figured you'd over-react. Do you not eat lunch with any women? Do you not talk to any women?

I'm sorry, but the situation you describe is of your own selfish doing. You insisted on hanging on to a woman for no other reason than your own ego. She stopped loving you so long ago. All of the acts you describe above are her way of saying I want out but I am trapped. The proverbial ball and chain here is not the woman, it is YOU.

[Houston-TN]

WOW LONDON - To say you're ignorant is to defile the word...

1.For the first five years we both loved each other very much. She wanted a baby too. In fact, even before we were married, she said she wanted 2 kids.
2. I never said I owned my wife. Apparently you're jealous that you were never treated like a queen...
3 My wife usually volunteered that she and a friend of hers ate lunch often. But she never told me she was eating with another person-a certain guy whom I silently had suspicions over. If I had known-if she had just told me that was whom she was eating lunch with rather than hiding it from me, then that would be different.
4 If I have had lunch with a woman, EVER, then my wife knew about it as I am truthful.
5 As clueless as you are, I hope you're not a marriage counselor. Because if you are, you really need to quit your day job and do stand-up comedy. Your comments are so stupid that they're actually funny

[helenrw200]

Hi Houston


Firstly ( and correct me if I'm wrong here ,london ) I seem to think london is actually male ?

London's post may have been put a little bluntly, but on the whole I'm sorry to say Houston that I do agree with the ghist of it in so much as it does sound as if your wife is feeling she wants out but is trapped . It does sound as if over the years she has begun to relish her independance and freedom to the point that they are now meaning more to her than her marriage is. If you think about it, is it really up to you to " grant " her as much freedom as she wanted ?

You say you had to travel for your job, and that you have given her QUOTE "cars, diamonds , an expensive home " maybe she didn't want that, maybe she wanted you to be there instead ? Just a thought, I know from experience that being apart can help wreck a marriage, some people HAVE to live this way, but if finacially you don't , it can sometimes be better to " make do " and be together than live apart in luxury. I'm not saying this is what happened in your case, I don't know your circumstances, but , do you think this may have contributed ?

It's a sad fact that some people reach an age where the children are more independant and they want a second chance at youth, they tire of mariage and having to be there for someone and want to be a little selfish, in this instance there isn't much you can do except reiterate your feelings and hope they feel enough for you in return. You cannot force someone to love you, you can't persuade them to either , all you can do is be the best person you can, and hope that love is reciprocated.

Your wife unfortunately for you seems to be sending out the signal that it's over , that other things in her life are more important, you can keep up a dialogue with her , let her know you still love her ( if indeed you do ) but ultimately only she can make the decision to stay or go. A harsh fact, but reality.

Kind regards
Helen

[London]

WOW LONDON - To say you're ignorant is to defile the word...

Thanks. I re-read my post and I can't really see what in there could have ticked you off so much except for perhaps it hit a nerve. Perhaps it was too much for you to handle.

But lets take your objections (and insults) this one at a time:


1.For the first five years we both loved each other very much. She wanted a baby too. In fact, even before we were married, she said she wanted 2 kids.


No one said anything about NOT loving each upto the birth of your first kid. Point is, you said that she wasn't sure she loved after the birth of your first son and that you BEGGED her to have a second child. That doesn't sound like someone who wanted a second child of their volition. Her saying she wanted 2 kids BEFORE marriage is not a defacto statement of wants over time!


We got married and had a boy after five years of marriage. At that point she told me she wasn't sure if she loved me anymore. It affected me pretty bad but I thought we had gotten through that.

She once told me that since our son was born she has had no interest in sex. She didn't want to have anymore kids but after 8 years of begging she says she gave in and now we have a beautiful four year old daughter.


2. I never said I owned my wife. Apparently you're jealous that you were never treated like a queen...


Yes, I see the relevance between your insult and your statement.

Your words were : "Over the years I gave her as much freedom as she wanted". Freedom is a right, not something you GIVE someone who is your equal.

3 My wife usually volunteered that she and a friend of hers ate lunch often. But she never told me she was eating with another person-a certain guy whom I silently had suspicions over. If I had known-if she had just told me that was whom she was eating lunch with rather than hiding it from me, then that would be different.


Did you ever ask yourself WHY she didn't tell you about her having lunch with another man in the first place? Hmmmmm.


4 If I have had lunch with a woman, EVER, then my wife knew about it as I am truthful.


Of course you are. That's why you are on this board while your wife is having lunch with another man.

5 As clueless as you are, I hope you're not a marriage counselor. Because if you are, you really need to quit your day job and do stand-up comedy. Your comments are so stupid that they're actually funny

So tell me, why are you so angry at what I wrote?

Insults aside, YOU are the one with the issues, not me, and not your wife.

[Houston-TN]

I got on this forum looking for ideas to help save my marriage. I wasn't looking for insults. After I read your reply to my post and replied to your ill-conceived advice, i read through some of your previous posts.

Apparently you are more concerned with a male vs. female point of view.

My advice to you is to stay off this website and to seek counseling for yourself. Here, you're not helping matters any...

[London]

I got on this forum looking for ideas to help save my marriage. I wasn't looking for insults. After I read your reply to my post and replied to your ill-conceived advice, i read through some of your previous posts.

Apparently you are more concerned with a male vs. female point of view.

My advice to you is to stay off this website and to seek counseling for yourself. Here, you're not helping matters any...

1. I wasn't giving advice and I didn't insult you. ALso, I didn't ask for your advice either!

2. No I am not concerned about male vs. female - but what is the current situation as described.

3. Again, YOU can't tell people what to do. Enough already. If you don;t like what I write or others, pass on it and move on.

EXTRA: Strangely enough, many others agree with my point (eg helenrw200 on this thread). I may be blunt and to the point, but what's the point about sugar-coating the situation?

[disbelief]

Hi Houston,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It is tough when the love you try and give is not reciprocated. While I agree that freedom is a right, not something to be granted, I also feel that marriage entails a certain level of commitment and sacrifice for the sake of the family. After all, if we all just went along with our pure wants and desires, the world would be an unbelievably messy place. I guess my feeling on the matter is that love and freedom must be tempered with compromise - by all parties - to survive. It's hard to really appreciate and analyze your situation, but it sounds like a long, frank, honest discussion is required between you and your wife to flush out and deal with the frustrations. Hopefully you can both find the means to do this in the most civil fashion - it's easy for emotion to over-rule...

I have also learned that too much self-sacrifice can be a very bad thing as it ultimately leads to resentment and this does show through, one way or the other. Have material items been a true or perceived demand? I suspect you also feel trapped in the sense that you are at a loss as to what to do to please and get love in return. To reiterate other postings, there may be nothing further you can do - a decision may already be made and your wife should be honest with you on this matter. Trying to draw out the honesty can be very hard, but it may be essential to move on in the best way possible, regardless of the outcome.

Regarding religious beliefs, it sounds as if your viewpoints differ. Having experienced both extremes personally, I can completely understand the disconnect. All one can do is try to understand the other's viewpoint and strive to accept certain behaviours - again, discussion, understanding and compromise are key.

As tough as it may sound, sometimes getting kicked by others while down can offer some sort of insight as well. A harsh reality of total love lost may or may not be the end result, but it's obviously better to know now than years more down the road. Again, communication and open, honest dialogue are the best tools for your situation. There are a number of great websites on the matter and I know there's some pointers on this site as well.

I wish you well Houston.

Disbelief