Trust ?? Or lack of it....

[helenrw200]

I'd be interested on any thoughts or ideas any of you have for mending broken trust.If you read the thread on porn , masturbation and marriage it will be obvious how my trust was broken, I'm now trying very hard to work at this relationship and restore the trust but find myself suspicious of everything he does and I need to move past this if we are ever to survive it. Would be grateful for all thoughts and comments.
Helen

[London]

I'm sure Kate has some leads into rebuilding trust articles....

On your comment about the situation leading upto the trust being broken - have you managed to get an explanation, a real explanation as to why he needs access to live-"physical" porn such as massage parlours and the strip joints etc....? Have you given him an ultimatum - "me or porn?". My experience is that once trust is broken in a relationship, it is never fully mended even if it is "restored" to some workable degree. You'll always be thinking deep down if he is being truthful.... If you can get over that aspect of your human personality and are able to accept that while he is not in your presence he is not "betraying" you then you can move on.

You need to ask yourself why you even have to ask such a "great" guy to choose between porn and his partner..... usually, partners choose to do what is "best" for the relationship and for their partners while ensuring that they are getting "fair" treatment in return.

The lack of respect shown by your partner here is just as bad as the lies he tells and the broken trust you have in him. He clearly doesn't respect your wishes. And while, i think people tend to sometimes over-react in some situations that are against their beliefs, there is usually a concerted effort by the partner to either help the other understand why they continue to do something or they have to make a choice.....

[helenrw200]

not in your presence he is not "betraying" you then you can move on.
This is what I find particularly difficult, knowing what he got up to when I wasn't around.

Yes, I did actually leave and told him it was porn or me, he said his only fear since meeting me was that he might lose me, but, I find this hard to believe since he blatantly did this when he knew I was against it .... and why.

You need to ask yourself why you even have to ask such a "great" guy to choose between porn and his partner..... usually, partners choose to do what is "best" for the relationship and for their partners while ensuring that they are getting "fair" treatment in return.

This is a very interesting point, and one I hadn't considered, I will give that some thought.

I don't expect to ever get back to where I was before, however I have enough love for him to want to at least try to work it through, but w/o trust it is becoming impossible, he has done nothing since to make me doubt him, but still, the gut feeling says " would he ? "
Helen

[London]

he said his only fear since meeting me was that he might lose me,

so even his "fears" aren't enough to stop his porn addiction.... ?

I don't expect to ever get back to where I was before, however I have enough love for him to want to at least try to work it through, but w/o trust it is becoming impossible, he has done nothing since to make me doubt him, but still, the gut feeling says " would he ? "

Okay, I am now a little confused. you said he hasn't done anything to make you doubt him - what do you mean by that? That he has not gone to the the porn since or that while engaged in his "activities" he has not "touched" or not engaged in physical contact with them?

[helenrw200]

What I mean is that since I discovered what he had done , he has not repeated it to my knowledge.
As to his fear of losing me, he says he didn't realise that looking at porn would have that effect, I disagree, I feel I have always been direct about what behaviour I find to be acceptable, and have told him so right from the start . My feeling is that he wasn't aware he would get caught and therefore hoped he could get away with it...
Helen

[London]

Okay, so you are basically saying is that you don't feel like you can trust him. If so, you have to weigh the potential outcome with the "deed" in question (among other factors). Is losing him better than what he does vis-a-vis the porn?

[helenrw200]

That I can't answer, I've always been pretty strong and have not come across this situation before . I don't know what life would be without him, I'm certainly not afraid to be alone, I have done it before, but I do love him. It's a heart versus head situation, I don't want to give up on something that was ( and could be again ) so wonderful , but at the same time if I can't trust him, then I can't respect him, and I'm not sure love without those things is enough..

A lot of it is down to his absolute refusal to discuss what happened , he says I should let it drop and not keep " going on about it " . I feel I have a right to let him know how it made me feel and to have some of my questions ( mainly as to why he felt the need to do it ) answered. He thinks we should just put it behind us, he promising not to do it again, and me trusting what he says is true..........I'm just not sure trust is that easily mended....
Helen

[London]

I'm just not sure trust is that easily mended....

it's not.... similar to respect, trust has to be earned and needs to be in the mix along with intimacy and love as the driver for a solid relationship. Missing any one of the four in a relationship renders it very difficult to continue and makes it a struggle.

[gingerninja]

i totally understand the heart over head situation, its the same here, i have now been through catching my partner six times with porn related matter, six times he has said he wont do it again and six times he has let me down by doing it again. Your partner wont talk about it because he is ashamed of his actions. I have asked myself lots of questions over the last six months does he love me? does he find me attractive? does he really want to be with me? am i enough for him? the last question was answered by a friend when she said is one woman enough for any man, and at least hes doing it with women that are not real and not fullfilling his fantasy out with the woman next door! that made me think, in one way it feels like hes been unfaithfull on the other he hasnt. Ive have decided that im not going to hurt myself more by thinking its because of me, i know its not, im not perfect but im not bad. Im loving, im loyal and im dedicated to my family(we have three children). After about the third act i stopped trusting him in all sorts of ways, it wasnt just the porn. I felt that if he could lie to me about porn what else could he lie to me about? I took a long look at our relationship, when im not well hes there for me, when the kids cry hes there for them, he works hard in a job he hates so the bills are paid. He will do things to help around the home to help me. Its even gone as far as dancing around our bedroom in my knickers just to cheer me up!!!(my idea as i said the only thing that would do the job of making me laugh was that, not thinking for one second that he would)He doesnt really drink, or gamble or smoke. Hes never done drugs in his life, his one vice is porn which gives him great shame and as far as i know everyone has something that they dont like, for me its smoking. All i can say is over the last couple of days i have started to see things a little different, i have looked at all aspects of our relationship, the porn issues hurts like hell i know but th rest of my life isnt so bad, i hate to be lied to and trust issues in this house are raw, but i have decided that i trust my man with my life, i trust him with our children, i trust that he will never leave me for someone else and i trust that he will always be there when i need him for a cuddle and a shoulder to cry on, i just dont trust him with porn. I have seperated that trust from the others and now feel that is just a little bit of the equation. I love my man with all my heart, as my mother would say, hes just a man, feed him, sleep with him, and love him, dont ask him to understand you he never will, his needs are more basic than yours and you have to accept that!!!! Do i still trust my man, well im working on that with my life yes with our p.c NO WAY!!! im just learning to make the two areas seperate.
best of luck i will be thinking of you
gingerninja

[mrb]

I am not sure that trust can be re-established. My husband met people on-line, cheated on me with his ex (who has made my life awful) met a girl downtown that he just had to know and dated her, and he has been a regular on several dating sites swapping pictures with women. Add on his contact with escorts and talk about insane. Oddly enough the emtire time he was madly in love with me, and when I thought he was up to something was hurt and actually cried tears because I didn't know how much he loved me. He did all these things, and played house like nothing was wrong...well enough so that when I was onto him he made me feel that it was all just in my head.

Trust is a tricky thing. I can say that if someone can lie to your face, and you believe them...trust becomes nearly impossible.

[Lovey]

I too am struggling with lack of trust issues because of my husband's previous porn use, Helen, so I know what you're going through. Most days I'm fine, we are fine and everything feels great, then I will think that I see something or have these inner thoughts of mistrust that we do talk about but that don't seem to go away for good.

I have never really been taught how to trust but am realising that once we let go of our anger we're supposed to be able to forgive, then once we forgive we can move on.. I don't know. I'ts all confusing and I get mad that he has put me in this position.

I too wonder when things will be better for good.. no more of this on and off stuff.

[helenrw200]

At least you get to talk things through Lovey, my partner refuses to discuss it, we've had some stand up arguments about it, but tho I've tried not to be confrontational about it, and have tried to " just talk " he won't have it, he gets immediately defensive and angry and storms off. our relationship is tense at the moment and there is a real lack of trust, mainly because of his secret porn, but also because of other things. I have taken a decision not to check up on him, it was driving me crazy and I do feel better for it . OK so I no longer know what ( if anything ) he gets up to when I'm not around, but then if he's going to do it, he'll find a way to do it without me finding out !

I still don't trust him, and can't be " me " around him, I feel I have to guard my emotions , we've lost a lot of the closeness we once had, but hey, it was his choice to use porn regardless of my feelings about it ( and he knew why I felt so strongly about it ), I'm not responsible for his actions, I'm now trying to enrich my life in other ways ...... and waiting to see how things pan out.

Helen

[Sad Wife]

I am also wondering if the trust will ever return. My husband and I finally had a knock-down-drag-out fight over his porn and attention to other women a few months ago when we were supposed to be going out with my friends for my birthday. He went in the office to look up movie times while I was having a drink in the living room with my friends and it was taing awhile so I went in and he was checking out the paint on swimsuits in the swimsuit issue. I was so mad.... it was just like I snapped. We had been arguing about porn for the whole 8 months of our marriage since I found out a few days before the wedding what he was doing. He lied about stopping a few times and finally I just stopped asking but I was always miserable. (I know some people dont think prn is a big deal, but due to some childhood issues I have a HUGE aversion to it).

Anyway, that night I got totally drunk, cried through a movie and basically humiliated both of us in front of my friends because they knew obviously we were fighting about something. That night we had a major fight/talk and even he was crying and swearing it would be all over, he didnt want to lose me. So for three months he hasnt looked at a thing, but that is largely because I got rid of the internet and I make sure he is never home alone. The problem is I am afraid to leave him alone because why should I believe him this time when he has only lied before, but if I never leave him home alone I will never know if he really meant it, and although he is being VERY understanding about my not wanting him home alone I know it must be getting frustrating to always be at work, with me at my work or whereever we are together. He probably needs some alone time.

I was finally starting to feel like maybe I was getting better and then this weekend we had another long talk about the issue just because I wanted hom to know where I was in the healing process and it came out that he had a lap dance at his batchelor party even though I asked him not to and he promised he wouldnt before he went. So now I am feeling so stupid again because that is just another lie thrown onto the pile and he said it was a year ago who cares but since I just found out it may as well have been yesterday to me.

I just hate this up and down crap. Everytime I start feeling like maybe I can forgive and move on something reminds me and I start to panick again and wonder if we should jst get divorced and be done with it because I am not sure I will ever be able to trust him again. I think all that is keeping us together is that he is trying so hard to be patient and good about always coming to my work instead of going home if he gets off before me because he knows I dont want him there alone. I guess that is a sign that he really means it this time... I just wish I knew how to heal and move on. When we talked this time he even said we could go see someone if I needed to, but I dont see how going to counselling is going to help this.

[helenrw200]

Sad Wife

At least your husband is trying, my partner basically feels it is my fault for checking up on him. I had sworn never to look at his mobile or check the history on his pc again, but he's been acting very distant of late and today, despite feeling really bad about it, I checked his downloads on his mobile.... and guess what ? Yep, piles of porn, both pics and videos. I immediately told him I'd looked as he had said if you find something tell me , don't dwell on it..... the result ? Another huge row, he was only concerned because I looked at his mobile, not sorry for having the porn, again he used the excuse that he put it there to test me , and said he only put it there yesterday. I too have a strong dislike of porn because of things that happened in my past, which he has always been fully aware of and had told me this was the reason he would never do it again. Now he has gone off to work ( he works a twilight shift ) in a temper, left his mobile at home, and I don't know ( or know if I care really ) whether or not he is coming home . I will never trust him now, not ever, I am sickened by the lies and deceit and basically I had enough. This relationship cannot survive all the underhandedness and I can no longer live with these feelings, he now disgusts me. If you love someone and they ask you not to do something because they have a strong and valid reason, you don't go behind their back and do it anyway.

Helen

[Sad Wife]

I am so sorry for you... as hard it may be for you perhaps the time has come to move forward. I dont know if your past is similar to mine in the reasons we hate porn but I fully understand being completely against it and what I have had to realize is that I will not ever be able to live with it. I have accepted and informed my husband that if it happens again I am gone, no more stories or excuses or lies.

I know this excuse never seems good enough when it comes from them, but please know that IT IS NOT YOU. You are trying to be a good wife, to love and to cherish as you promised and he is not holding up his end of the bargain. I am in total agreement with you that if you love someone enough to marry them you should not do something that they have a good reason to be against. You were strong enough to come here and tell your story, which I know isnt easy. I hid it from everyone for so long before I finally broke down and told a friend and even telling I was so embarrassed because I thought it was about me, about me not being good enough or pretty enough, but it isnt. You are beautiful and stronger than you know and I hope if the time has come for you to move on that you will believe you can. You dont need a man like that to be happy. You deserve to have someone who will treat you like you want. Please dont let him destroy you. I know that since my husband actually seems to be trying THIS time maybe I have no right to tell you what you should do or how you must feel, but I do know of painful pasts and lying husbands, and I know right now you are going through the hardest thing you may have ever known. It may seem like it will never get better, but it will! One day at a time you must focus on your own needs, and on your own happiness.

[helenrw200]

I have come through bad times before, and I know I can be strong when I have to be, raising a son with Autism has taught me that . I have been married twice, but I'm not married to this partner , I was wary about marrying for a third time given my lack of trusting ability, and his lack of honesty !

I too don't know if we share the same reasons for our strong aversion to porn, but whether the reasons are the same or not, our partners should understand why we are so strongly opposed to it.

When I first discovered he was using porn it was by total accident , I wasn't checking up, nor was I looking for problems , I was shocked to the core and told him so, and at that time also explained fully my aversion to it and why, he swore that now he knew he would never do it again, sadly that didn't last long. It has gone past being about his prediliction for porn now, it has become a trust issue , for various reasons I had little enough trust before, either in men or truth be told in human nature altogether , the fragile trust I had for him has been totally shattered and yet according to him it is my fault for looking. Yes I checked up , but only because I knew what I would find.... and I did.

I also know the clenched stomach feeling if I leave him alone in the house, wondering what he'll be viewing whilst I'm gone . Regardless of what he says, our intimate life has suffered, after all, porn is a quick fix, he doesn't need to please anyone but himself, and he can stop when he's had enough, to put it crudely, it requires little interaction with anyone but himself and is self gratifying. Now when he leaves the house I wonder just who he is talking to, or receiving message or photos from.

I would sometimes so much like to just walk away, but this is my home, I gave up my marital home when I split with my husband 3 years ago, and have already uprooted my autistic teen son once, I am loath to do it again so soon, but there is only so much one can take.......... and I think I am close to that point right now.

I hope that your situation continues to improve, while you can talk about things there is every chance that it will. I wish you luck, and thanks for the sympathy.

Helen