My wife told truth after 30 years

[really confused]

My situation may seen unimportant to some. Some people will think I am obsessing but I think not. I have been married for 30 years. I knew that my wife was popular in high school. We went to the same high school, started dating in college and married after graduation. She had always insisted that she was never sexually active before me and that I was her first. She said that she "had never done anything sexual with anyone else" She recently told me however,that she had engaged in some pretty heavy activity (short of intercourse) with some of her high school boyfriends who were and still are my friends. She doesn't understand why I am upset. I know that she has been faithful all these years, this happened a long time ago and should not matter. But to me the info is recent plus we have maintained friendships with a couple of these guys all these years. Am I justified in now feeling deceived having socialized all these years with guys that have intimate knowledge of my wife and not knowing. I don't know why but I feel violated. My wife thinks I'm being foolish. I'm sorry but the picture of who she was has now changed and it is awkward to look at my friends and not picture them with my wife. I have always had in my mind that the girl I married was as sexually inexperienced as I was and that we learned and grew together. We were bith raised as Catholics and went to a Catholic high school. I had never been with any other girls before I met my wife. I don't know why but I feel betrayed. Am I nuts.

[really confused]

Am I a bad Christian for feeling betrayed and deceived. I tried to life my the teachings of my Catholic upbringing and didn't engage in sexual intimacy with anyone except my wife before I was married. I thought she had done the same because she told me so. As a Christian, I can forgive her past indescretions and her deception. It is just the fact that she didn't trust me with the truth and lied to me for 30 years that hurts. Also her attitude that it was no big deal trivialized me feelings, the teachings of our Catholic faith and her actions. Remember that in the mid 60's "good girls" who were 15 & 16 didn't drop their panties for boys.
Somebody please help. Does anybody understand or am I a real jerk.

[Concerned Reader]

Dear Really Confused

On a pettifogging point of fact, nobody has had untoward knowledge of your W simply because she was not your W at the time.

I am not clear whether you wish to really think your way round this, or if you are looking to others to validate your feelings by agreeing your W is in the wrong.

The problem being, that even if you wife was slightly in the wrong for fibbing when you asked point blank (can you remember what you asked 30 years ago?) it doesn't make it to the terrible-person sort of lie. You've said you would have married her anyway, so what difference does a fumble and a fib make over a 40-year span (which is what I calculate it would be if we are talking about the mid-1960s).

Most people have to come to terms with the fact that partners have a past life and learn not to scratch at old scabs. The past cannot be changed and was not really anything to do with them, but you can sure infect the present with that kind of behaviour - and the question is 'why would you want to?'

I'm not an authority on any kind of Church rulings on pre-marital behaviour, but reading your other posts I can't help but notice that you weren't actually, techncially, legally, religiously, married when you first became intimate with this woman. You wrote:

"Yes we were both virgins for each other although we did have sex before marriage. "

If you were so bothered about religious observance, why did you engage in this practice? It makes very little difference that you intended to get married. Or that it was all Clintonesque versions of not inhaling, or whatever. My apologies if I misunderstand it, but if she was in the wrong with the other men, wasn't she just as much in the wrong with you? Weren't you even more culpable if you knew the difference between right and wrong and yet still let her go along that path? Shouldn't you have tried to stop her, even though you were enjoying yourself?

Still, that was all thirty (or forty?) years ago and who can hold a young man responsible for sowing a few tame oats? Not me, and I'm old enough to remember where I was when JFK was shot.

What I do remember about the '60s is that good girls certainly didn't get 'caught' doing anything they shouldn't. Whether they actually did it, I couldn't say because I, naturally, had nothing to do with that sort of thing. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Over the past 40 years I have watched the peeling back of layers of hypocrisy which attempted to classify women in that way and good riddance to it. The last time Europeans got worked up over the sexual purity of someone was the late Princess of Wales, and look at what a disastrous basis for a marriage that turned out to be.

Sexual innocence is not a bad thing, it might be a good thing, but in my view it just isn't that important compared to greater virtues such as kindness, fidelity, tolerance, good humor and co-operativeness. (I ought to add here that the topic is a hot one in Europe because of ethinc groups which regard female sexual purity as a proxy for family honour. I don't think family honour is an issue in Catholicism, is it?)

It would be a good idea to talk to a church person about your feelings as I think it may help to sort out the difference between the levels of observance one can expect from one's self, and the levels it is reasonable to expect from other people.

I hope you can find a way round this and be completely happy again.

[Hopeful]

I have been married for 30 years. I knew that my wife was popular in high school. We went to the same high school, started dating in college and married after graduation. She had always insisted that she was never sexually active before me and that I was her first. She said that she "had never done anything sexual with anyone else" She recently told me however,that she had engaged in some pretty heavy activity (short of intercourse) with some of her high school boyfriends who were and still are my friends. She doesn't understand why I am upset.

Really confused,

Water under the bridge. You should probably think that you are quite a man to have captivated such a 'popular' woman from the clutches of the other beasts. She didn't do it with the others, OK? But she did dedicate 30 years of her marriage with you. I don't know what brought on the conversation to where she felt she needed to tell you. Maybe she wanted to come clean? If she has no desire to flirt with your friends or cheat on you, but told you anyway, she might be wanting to clear her conscience. Would you consider it better if she kept it from you? What you don't know won't hurt you, right? Well, if she is telling you without aim to hurt you, you better wrap it up quick before it becomes something when it is not. End of story. Apologize to that fine woman and thank her for picking you over the others.

My wife thinks I never took interest in girls before we met. Or that I ever dated. But I know if I told her who all I dated before we got engaged, she would probably have a fit. But I don't tell her because I love her too much and they are past history now. Water under the bridge. I know that my wife had several boyfriends, but never admitted to having any type of sexual activity with them. She was proposed to once or twice but dumped the guys. She was looking for something better. Then one day she called me and I answered. What mattered, my friend, was that moment and all the time after.

Hopeful

[Hopeful]

Am I a bad Christian for feeling betrayed and deceived. I tried to life my the teachings of my Catholic upbringing and didn't engage in sexual intimacy with anyone except my wife before I was married. I thought she had done the same because she told me so. As a Christian, I can forgive her past indescretions and her deception.

Really confused,

I am happy that you are an example of virtuous living. Not many around these days. What exactly are the teachings of your Catholic upbringing on forgiveness? You stated in the previous post that she didn't have intercourse with the other boys. So, what is your point?

It is just the fact that she didn't trust me with the truth and lied to me for 30 years that hurts.

Maybe she really love you and didn't trust you with the truth because you probably couldn't handle the truth at the time. She probably knew that you would blow a fuse and that she might loose the one she had love for. Thirty years is a long marriage, ya know.

Also her attitude that it was no big deal trivialized me feelings, the teachings of our Catholic faith and her actions.

Because it was no big deal. It isn't the trivialization of past deeds, but the making a mountain out of a mole hill that is the problem. Pretend you are wearing a t-shirt that reads, "She picked me, guys!"

Remember that in the mid 60's "good girls" who were 15 & 16 didn't drop their panties for boys.

Some did. But what really matters is that your wife dropped hers for you;-) Consider yourself lucky. She gave you something special; her body, her life, and her love. Send her flowers today to remind her that you appreciate her. She just might remind you how special you really are.

Somebody please help. Does anybody understand or am I a real jerk.

Do you really want me to answer that one? I don't think so.

Hopeful

[really confused]

No, no reply necessary. I know the answer. I have forgiven my wife for not sharing the truth. I know some will say that there is no need for forgiveness since she did nothing wrong. I am just hurt and feel that i don't really know her. She has always been a bit closed. She does not share feelings well and has a ever present shell around her. I did feel proud that my wife chose me and still do. It's just that I also have the feeling that there are guys that can look at her and think "I got a little taste and a cheap feel before you"

[heard enough wining]

Get a grip idiot. You forgive her for what? Being popular? Exploring her sexuality? That is normal youthful curiosity, insecurity and growing. She evidently had boundries and maintained them. According to you she kept her virginity (for you) so what is your problem. You should be thankful that a desirable girl who was sought after be so many saw fit to settle for a wining looser. She deserved better. Grow up!!

[Sierra]

Boy you got that right!!! Talk about "inventing" problems.

You've got a lot of nerve. You say she is a "bit closed". I wonder why.

Here's the deal. Other boys (and I mean boys, not men) kissed. Hugged her. They made out. Touched. Whatever.

Big god dammed deal.

Its really all about jealousy isn't it. It turns out she may have gotten more than you and you can't stand it.

When you see these guys that "got a little taste" tell them thank you. They helped deliver the woman you love to you in such a way that the two of you have been together 30 years. She is a product of her experiences in life you know, and you seem to love the product.

I you still must whine, think of it this way: they tasted the icing, the cake has always been only for you.

Now shut up, grow up and stop being a jerk.

D

[Kate]

Dear Sierra

Please stop being aggressive. This guy is not a jerk, but your behaviour is rude and what you say is offensive rather than constructive. No doubt you will complain about my commenting on your behaviour and all that rubbish about how hard we moderators are on you (whining?), but we keep telling you that people who come here are hurting and they don't need you to rub their noses in it. There are ways to challenge people with out being offensive. Why don't you learn how!

Kate

[Sierra]

Fine. So be it. But there is a big difference between real hurt and this kind of self-inflicted melodrama.

What about the hurt to the wife. She hasn't done anything wrong and is essentially being shunned.

Women are not possessions. You take them as you find them. I'm sorry his "dream" is destroyed because she kissed someone else before she met him.

He should spend a little more time trying to fill his head with images of her loving him.

D



P.s. The guy before me called him an idiot. How come he didn't get in trouble?

[Kate]

Neither post were particularly helpful, but you have a wonderful way with words. If you used that to challenge gently and be constructive then you could make a really positive contribution to the board!

[Sierra]

I'm sorry. I suppose there is too much cowboy in me, but I think that talking is fine sometimes and other times people just need a trip to the "woodshed" whether they like it or not.

I will try to be less insulting.

D

[really confused]

I have not shunned my wife. Quite the opposite, I have ben trying desparately to reindle a long dead spark. Maybe we are going about it in the wrong way but I felt that we needed to "clear the air" of alot of things that have been going on in our minds for quite some time. I took no offense to anything said here. If you can't take a punch don't stick your chin out. Actually, I think I really wanted to feel secure in the fact that these feelings are unwaranted and I need to put them to rest. It is just hard to do so.

[Sierra]

If you are trying to rekindle a spark what on earth are you doing thinking about this stuff. If your car won't start how do you improve the situation by letting the air out of the tires.

If you want to rekindle a spark, the next time you have a chance come up behind her quitely, kiss her softly on the neck, tell her you love her and that she is all you ever wanted, and kiss her softly some more. Think of HER pleasure when you do this.

If all goes well, the rest will begin to take care of itself.

D

[Hopeful]

No, no reply necessary. I know the answer. I have forgiven my wife for not sharing the truth. I know some will say that there is no need for forgiveness since she did nothing wrong.

Really confused,

I think someone is now ready to ask for an apology. How about it? What she didn't do before you got married is nothing in comparison to what you are doing or have done to her now after thirty years.

I am just hurt and feel that i don't really know her. She has always been a bit closed. She does not share feelings well and has a ever present shell around her.

OK. You felt hurt. But now you hurt her. It would be a dream to think that every spouse saved himself/herself just for the other. But people are human and some experiment. So, she allowed herself to indulge in some relationships that you wouldn't approve of today. But that was, indeed, yesterday way before she committed herself to you. We can never really know the other, including our spouses. If we did, we would have nothing to talk about - or argue. We all have a bit of mystery and some shameful moments we'd rather not discuss with those we truly love; hence the reason for close friends we can entrust our thoughts. She probably held such facts close to her chest like a hand full of cards because she just wanted you to get that much closer. Thirty years of marriage is a good long time to entrust one's whole life and body to only one other person. Now you know a little more about her. But if your actions indicate the type of environment she lives under daily, then it is no wonder why she lives in a shell. Maybe she didn't put that shell there; maybe you did, one layer at a time?

I did feel proud that my wife chose me and still do. It's just that I also have the feeling that there are guys that can look at her and think "I got a little taste and a cheap feel before you"

Good. But they didn't get the oyster. You did, big guy! What they think is only in your mind. They can also be thinking how damn lucky that guy (you) are today. I mean, thirty years with some nice babe, whereas they can only reflect on the crumbs of yesteryear. You got the cake and were able to eat it too.

Before you let this continue, my friend, get on your knee, take her hand, and apologize to her. It is OK to brief her about your obsessive jealousy and how you let it go out of control because you only love her too much to think straight, but now you realize that it was nothing as long as you have her today. Others may think of ... (whatever in the past) but you are able to hold her right now and kiss her. Let her know that it is OK to tell you things and that you won't hold it against her or get out of whack. Cheap thrills only last for the moment; loving commitments last a lifetime. Show her who's the big daddy. You apology might raise her eyebrows. And then say to yourself, "I have the entire banquet before me!"

Hopeful

[really confused]

I have been doing alot of that "warm and loving" stuff in recent months. She is just very slow to respond and I get frustrated. I will admit that I have been a jerk at times ove the years and when she tuned away I got frustrated and angry. When you work 60 hours a week and come home youdon't expect to run into an icecube or a buzzsaw. That would make me angry and I would occasionaly and mean in response. I confess that I had a feeling all these years that she had never been completely candid about her past from the start and when she rejected me over the years it would get my mind churning up the fact that maybe she had other prior experiences that were more enjoyable than being with me and that was the cause of her coldness. I finally confessed that these doubts of mine have fueled some of my hateful actions over the years and she then confided that my suspicions were true and that she was more active than she had told and had not said anything all these years since to her they didn't mean anything.

[Sierra]

You have got to stop worrying about this stuff.

Tired or not take the woman in your arms and love her. Period.

If you do nothing else will matter. If you don't, nothing else will matter either.

Apologize and start kissing her.

Its that simple.

D

[Sierra]

P.s.

I would rather be remembered by a woman as a bad lover who she felt was special to her than a good lover who meant nothing.

Chew on that one for a while.

D

[really confused]

I know that I need to get past this and I am getting there. I think it is understandable to get a little bit out of focus when beliefs that you held for 30 years are abruptly reversed. I realize that all this "old stuff" doesn't matter. It just came up along with alot of other baggage which has been aired lately and it was just the one that bothered me the most. To me it was symbolic of a lifetime habit my wife has of not sharing or being open. She is extremely non-confrontational and will say or do whatever she thinks will avoid conflict. That is not always wise or healthy. I have been making extra efforts to show my wife the depths of my love. And I have actually been using this forum to vent my anxiety in lieu of dumping the full load on my wife. The feedback has been mostly of the positive nature which has reinforced the conclusion I had already known I had to reach. The problem would have developed if the responses had taken the opposite tone, telling me that she was wrong, my anger was justified and I should punish her for it. that would have confused me even more.

[Caddy]

Dear Confused
I didn't read most of the replies that people posted to your problem because most of them have no idea how you feel because they don't hold dear the idea and commitment you felt you had made with your wife and that you thought she had made to you... SHE LIED for 30 yrs... that is a hell of a smack in the face. I feel your pain and shame. You didn't get to marry who you thought you were marrying, she lied, she lied and again she lied... for 30 freaking years!!!!!! Oh, but she got to marry a proper, honest, loving and amazingly forgiving man. And what did you get?? A wife that is by the sounds of it cold emotionally with you... because she knows in her heart that she's been lying all those years and she knows that you are honest and deserved much much better - the truth for a start... before getting married... you could have come to terms with it then and there and could have discussed it maybe and you probably would have still married her because you loved her and she hadn't actually had sex with any of them... but... at least you would have known the facts and made an informed decision to marry or not. What if she has had sex with one or all of them and she thinks she'll try tell a half truth by saying she fooled around but just forgot to mention it... cuz she knows how hurt you'd be with that thought so she surely couldn't tell you if she had had sex with them... not because she can't tell you things but because she lied so badly for so long. You are brilliant for forgiving her, I know I'd probably not be that forgiving if I was married to someone for 30yrs and then some day be told.. 'oh.. remember that little thing that meant so much to you... etc.. well.. it's not true...'... that messes up your head... would people be so mad at you for being so hurt if you had said... 'my wife of 30 yrs tells me she really is only attracted to women?' that she pretended for 30 yrs to be someone else? Or my wife of 30 yrs just told me that she never loved me, it was just a lie all along... the hurt you have is because she lied, not because she did fool around with others before you.. the hurt you have is because now you don't know how much of what she ever told you is true... the hurt you feel is because she made you feel like your hurt didn't matter. You do not need to apologize for your feelings of hurt and sadness and the feeling that you don't really know her. SHE needs to apologize for misleading you, for lying to you, for keeping secrets from her husband, for being selfish, cold and uncaring towards you when she causes you such incredible pain. It's not an issue to divorce over, but the trust has gone somewhat. Sorry for the rant but by golly, the more I read the replies the more I needed to say!

[packerman]

woman might want to comment... but these cheap thrills are really more for the guys.. the girls are just accomodating... ask her if she really enjoyed it.. she probably did not???

[Debbo]

Dear Really Confused,

Your wife chose to be open and honest with you about something she felt she was holding back. That's part of communication in a marraige.

Maybe what you need to ask yourself is......Can you be trusted with her secrets or are you going to use her past against her?

She needed to come clean with you about something that was probably bothering her for some time now.

Are you going to hold it against her and take it personally or see it for what it really is?

She was trying to share with you a part of herself and not keep any secrets from you. Which makes for a better marraige.

You might want to read the article in this forum on open communication in marraige. It really helped me. Especially the part that talks about unloading old baggage.

[Hannibal]

I have to agree with Caddy, I have somewhat the exact problem happen to me. My wife I met almost 10 years ago and 2 years ago I confronted her about her past. I only did as I knew something wasn't right, when before we were married she said she was raped. She engaged in it when she was engaged to another guy hen she was a sophmore in high school. She was my first and I have been married for almost 9 years to her. I travel and have a lot to think about when I'm away, and this is my demon. My problem is with my wife and yours, is that she did lie to you and it is a big deal of a trust problem. My wife somewhat understands where I am coming from. You will always have these demons, you need to sit down and talk to your wife and explain your problem and try and make her understand. This will help you both. Your problem is easy to fix, get rid of those friends ever so slowly to stop reminding you of her past and move on as you were her first.

PS: You are not alone, as the Devil takes our mind and turns it and us against ourself!

[really confused]

I have not been active here for some time as I had my issue pretty well sorted out and have been working really hard at making my wife feel loved, special and the most inportant person in the world to me. I have also done a pretty good job of burrying the deamons that had been eating at me before. Recently, however, this issue has resurfaced. While conducting a thurough housecleaning and ridding the closets, attic, etc of old stuff I came across a box filled with photos of my wife and her old boyfriends (some of just the guys) as well as letters some had written to her. Now before you jump on me for being a jerk again let me clarify my thoughts and the facts:
They were not just put away and forgotten that thet existed. My wife had been looking for them previously but could not find them. When I told her I had she got that coy little smile on her face and said "oh I thought that you probably thew them away at some point"
She has knowingly kept them for over 30 years of marriage. They mean that much to her. Am I not totally fulfilling her needs.
Some of the letters were postmarked while she and I were dating in a supposedly exclusive relationship and after she had asked for a commitment and a ring and I gave her both. She was dating, being physically intimate and to some extent emotionally committed to others while keeping me on a string. She was trying to make sure that there wasn't someone better out there but at the same time keeping me tethered as insurance. In her own words her friends were getting married, she wanted to get out of her parrents house so it was time fer her to marry. And her exact quote as I was nicer than the others.
I know (believe)that she has been faithful for our 30 year marriage but the old wound is reopened. It's the trust thing

[Helen]

Really confused,

If you will forgive me saying this, I think you are creating a mountain out of a molehill here. Lots of women hang on to mementoes from previous relationships. Usually, these take the form of letters, pictures of happy times, little trinkets - that sort of thing - and these items can go right back to that first love. They could be things as innocuous as a pebble or a shell. Many of these things will mean nothing to most people yet will hold a wealth of meaning for those of us who hang on to them. The fact that your wife has held on to mementoes of her previous life does not mean you are 'not fulfilling her needs' in any way. The trinkets do not mean that she is secretly hankering for someone from her previous relationship(s) either. What she is holding onto is fond memories of a time before you. And that should be okay because no one has the right to try to wipe out a person's past. Past is past - but not necessarily forgotten. And that is how it should be.

Unless you have reasons to doubt her love for you, you do not need to be threatened by your wife's desire to hang on to these things. Those other men are not a threat to you in any way. The fact that she is with you and has stuck by you for so many years should tell you that she isn't hankering after anyone else. If she were, she would not still be by your side. She would have legged it years ago. Which brings me to a crunch point. I am picking up some serious insecurity vibes from you. Your wife made a 'joke' about being sure that you would have destroyed the box of trinkets. But it isn't funny - not really, because your wife's words reveal that you are pretty jealous and possessive. While it might feel flattering to some and they will endure it for a while, after even a good amount of time, most of us will feel stifled and will get tired of offering the same reassurances and explanations. I am not sure where these insecurities have come from. In the grand scheme of things, what you describe of your wife is not enough to justify you feeling this way. Some of the letters were postmarked while she and I were dating in a supposedly exclusive relationship and after she had asked for a commitment and a ring and I gave her both. She was dating, being physically intimate and to some extent emotionally committed to others while keeping me on a string. She was trying to make sure that there wasn't someone better out there but at the same time keeping me tethered as insurance.I would turn your last statement around and say that actually, maybe she was keeping the other 'guys' tethered in case you would not commit. But may I ask how you know she was being physically intimate with 'others' while she was with you? Do the letters say this? How many men was she seeing at the same time as she was seeing you? (Because you refer to 'others'). Or was there a sting of relationships before you and was she just communicating with these guys and you are not really sure of the nature of her relationship with them? I am just a little confused here. Even more confusing - your wife has been loyal and faithful to you for 30 years. She has given you no reason to question her fidelity. So why are a few letters written many, many moons ago, before you and she were married, causing you to question the very foundations of your union? It isn't as though your wife is with you by default. She CHOSE you and she told you this. No doubt you have talked about this before (I get the impression that you must have, reading your earlier postings). Bottom line - your wife sounds like a nice woman and I suspect she didn't part from any of the guys in her life on bad terms. So it is possible that these letters represent friendships as well as fond memories. If I were you, I really would not worry about them. It is not as though she hid them from you. If there were more to those friendships and letters, believe me, she would have burnt them years ago.

I don't mean to be brutal but if you are going to talk about trust, I would do so only when you have real justification. Given that your wife has been faithful to you for 30 years (and pretty tolerant of what must be some possessive behaviour on your part), I think talking about trust being destroyed is a tad melodramatic. I just went back and read your first post. Your wife didn't deceive you. Sexually active technically means full sex. She didn't have full sex. So where's the lie? If she had said 'I am completely chaste and untouched by man' and then you found out about the high school boyfriends and the occasional 'heavy sessions', okay, that would be a lie. This is a similar situation. Your wife never pretended she hadn't had relationships before you. I can't help wondering if your wife knew how serious your intentions were at the point at which she was writing to the other 'guys' ('guys' in parenthesis because I don't know if we are talking singular or plural here). Incidentally, how long after you got together and you gave her a ring did she continue exchanging letters? Are we talking days, weeks, months or years?

Sorry to go on for so long. As a last point I just want to sound a warning. Be careful with all this suspicion and questioning because one day you may drive your wife away. As stated, some women feel flattered when their men display signs of jealousy but many don't. It's tiresome. I doubt I would be amused if I were married for 30 years and my husband started questioning everything I had said to him and felt as though I could not be trusted. I would probably turn around and say if you cannot see or find reasons to trust me after 30 years of fidelity then perhaps we are better off going our separate ways. Perhaps you should think about exploring exactly why you are so insecure about things in your distant past. They should not matter yet clearly they do - to you. I think there is more to your feelings than you realise and it would benefit both you and your wife if you explored what is going on further, perhaps with the aid of a good counsellor.

Good luck to you,


Helen

[1aokgal]

You really are confused if you pushed your wife into a confession of some trivial petting or necking or whatever iintimacy occurred 30 years ago before she ever met you. Honesty is just a big mistake with someone who insists to ask questions which is none of your business to ask.

It sounds to me as if there are big time control issues here. There are no problems big enough in a 30 year relationship so you manufacture jealousy over some youthful sexual exploration? I suspect this controlling behavior on your part may be because there are some sexual problems today and you want to blame your partner.

Be glad you are still together and you got a prize. It is a pity she opened her mouth to tell you anything about her past. Big mistake because you can't handle honesty. You are such a high minded sort and so perfect.