Is it possible to be friends after Divorce?

[Hope]

Hi to all who post here,

Is it possible to remain friends with a spouse after divorce? My husband has been living with his O/W for 4 months now and on many occasions has expressed his wish to be my best friend but I cannot see how its possible to go from being intimate and married to just friends. I still feel so very hurt and rejected from being dumped and traded in for another woman.

What is the definition of “best friends” with an ex spouse anyway? Does it mean the occasional lunch or spending the odd evening together? Or does it mean just being able to communicate without arguing? Anyway how can you be good friends when the ex spouse has another woman to consider and care for the majority of the time - wouldn't a close friendship with my ex just cause conflicts within my husbands new relationship? I think most of this “friendship” talk is just to ease ones conscience whilst we all simply drift apart over time. I can’t stand seeing my husband enjoying a loving and happy relationship with his new partner whilst I slowly become just his friend. Sadly I almost feel as though its marriage or nothing.

Has anyone on this forum managed to remain friends? and is there a happy ending in sight? I would love to have some opinions on this subject.

Hope

[Jacks]

HI hope,

this is strange, I was searching for answers the same as you. My H wants us to stay friends, best of friends, even though he has got someone else! We do spent a lot of time together and I do enjoy his company, but then the doubt comes into it, is he only doing this, as he can't spent much time with OW ( her husband is keeping them from seeing each other at the moment). Then I think, it is benefiting the boys, as they seem to be happy seeing us together and having a laugh together. My friends and family say that I am mad to let him come round and to go out together, am I really mad to do so? I get very upset when I talk to him and he tells me that he is seeing OW and that he wants to be with her and so on, but then he finds excuses to come round to see me and the boys, even when the boys go out, he stays and we have a bottle of wine together. The reason I am staying friends with him, is that he has been my best friend for 22 years, we know so much about each other and like each others company! As hard as it is, I love him and when you love someone so much, you only want there happiness and if he can't be happy with me at the moment, then I have to let him do what he things he needs to do! The other night we went out for a few drinks, I drove and H had a lot to drink, out of the blue he kissed me on the lips and then cuddled me for ages, it felt so good, then he said that he doesn't want to give me false hope, I told him that I understand that he wants to be with the OW and it was ok, that we should just enjoy the moment! He turned round and said that this was the least he could do as he has been a real s.. and then he come out with I love you, but I am not in love with you anymore. A few month ago, he told me that he doesn't love me and so on! Maybe in time, things will work out and your H will see that the grass is greener on your side! :-)

Don't give up, I haven't, I have bad days where I feel that I can't go on as friends any more, then I look at my boys and think, even if it doesn't work out, I can teach my boys about unconditional love.

Jacks

[Confusedman]

Interesting. I suppose it is possible to remain friends if both parties are 'happy' to part company because it is a mutual decision. I was once at a wedding where the groom's ex-wife was an invited guest! I think she spent as much time dancing with him as the new bride! In reality though, such things are rare. Its more usual for one side or the other to drop the 'I don't love you anymore' bombshell, and promptly make for the nearest exit with an apparent disregard for the emotional wreckage left behind. Personally, I cannot come to terms with that. How can I maintain a friendship with someone who has utterly betrayed every investment of love, fidelity, trust & commitment I placed in them? True friendship is a life bond, not something which can be picked up and then dropped at the first obstacle. True friends are supposed to stick together and tackle problems as a united front. My wife was, until she left, my closest, most valued and trusted friend - my BEST friend. I bared my soul to her, shared my deepest fears and feelings, and would have given my life to protect her from harm. My reward? Complete rejection, closely followed by cold indifference. I don't recognise my wife anymore. She seems to view me now as the physical representation of whatever troubles rolled around her head prior to her departure. Its hard to see how I could maintain a genuine & lasting friendship with someone who has caused me such immense (and unwarranted) emotional damage, and who has treated me, frankly, like a piece of crap in the process. Furthermore, I don't see why I should now ease her conscience by giving the impression that her actions where acceptable or undertandable. That's assuming she still has a conscience!
Lets be honest here. Maintaining a friendship with the walkaway wife or husband is really just a way of not letting them go from our lives completely - because then we would have to accept complete defeat and the fact that they are gone forever. Is this healthy? It certainly isn't an honest friendship.
Well, that's my tuppence worth anyway. Let the debate begin!

[Jacks]

Hi confusedman,

I think you are right in saying that it is because we haven't let go of them! I haven't and deep down hope that we might have something we could work on! The thing is, yes he walked away and lied to me for a long time, but I think that at the moment I just can't get angry with him and still want him in my life! You would think that after all the hurt and so on, I would not want to be with him in the same room. It has been 5 months now and I think it is still early days and I am still hoping and dreaming! The thing I have found, is that I really get on well with him and we do enjoy each others company, where before we couldn't be in the same room without arguing about silly things! Also I see with my friend the opposite, she doesn't let her H near the house, hardly has any contact with him, the thing is her children are suffering, her oldest doesn't want to see him or go near him and the other 3 are up and down! I don't want that to happen with my boys, also my mum left when I was 6 and my dad always made sure that we went to see her as much as possible, even though it was hurting him so much, he put his feelings on hold for a while and made sure that we kept the contact with her.

Believe me, I have been thinking about keeping him away and not be friends, but at the moment I am not ready for that, I know one day I will have to let go, but at the moment my heart tells me otherwise.

Jacks

[Hope]

Hi Jacks

Your situation is very much like mine only my divorce is underway and I guess by spring next year we will be officially divorced…. That will be a very sad day.

I have also been friends with my husband for a very long time (21 yrs, married for 14 of them) and deep down I know we’re soul mates really …. Well that’s how my husband described us recently. He still seems to want me to be a part of his life and has said many times that he couldn’t imagine his future without my friendship. Mind you with 2 children we couldn’t lose contact anyway. If I didn’t have so many mixed feelings about his new relationship with the OW then I suppose I would just naturally become his best friend. I suppose the barrier I’ve been putting between us is mainly due to the OW and the fact that they are living together and she is his new future. When I think about them together it upsets me beyond belief and I just feel as though I don’t want to give him the privilege of having my acceptance or my friendship. I suppose I still haven’t really accepted the end of my marriage and I’m not sure I ever really will.

My husband has given me the impression that his new relationship isn’t a bed of roses and he doesn’t always seem that happy. Perhaps that’s another reason why he’s trying to hang onto my friendship just incase his new relationship fails. I feel so mixed up most of the time. I wake up some days and feel as though I just can’t cope with my life and then other days I feel strong and positive and could conquer the world!

Jacks, your husband does appear to enjoy your company and that’s wonderful especially if you are both happy plus its nice for your children – and you’re right in saying that you should enjoy whatever time you can share with him. However, how would you feel if the O/W leaves her husband and then moves in with your husband? Your feelings may begin to change at that point, if it happens because the reality of the marriage coming to an end finally sinks in.

I’m afraid that my husband may just want a quiet life ie my acceptance of his new partner and friendship as an added bonus! I’m really not sure if I can do the friendship thing because I just can’t forgive him for leaving me. This is all such an exhausting life at the moment and my 12 year old broke down in tears today because I was upset and he said that he hates to see me upset….. my husband doesn’t see the emotions that we all have to suffer and I feel very resentful at times. I suppose there is no magical cure its just going to get easier over time.

Thanks for the post Jacks, bye for now

Hope

[Hope]

Confusedman and Jacks,

Confusedman I feel the same as you. I have been lied to by the one man I truly loved and I naively thought our marriage could survive anything and always believed we’d work out any problems - I was very wrong. In the ideal world its nice to remain friends with the ex especially if you have children but I’m finding the more I think about the deceit and hurt I had to endure during the time my husband was having his affair I feel its less likely we will ever maintain true friends.

When I say I’m not sure I can do the friendship thing I don’t mean I wont let my husband in the house etc. I just mean I can only be pleasant and fair towards my husband. To be perfectly honest its taking liberties expecting me to be accepting and then to change my role of wife/lover to his “best friend”! I do think that he just wants an easy life!

I think best friends after divorce is a rarity because it’s not easy to forgive the one person in your life you trusted.

Hope

[Alan]

My tuppence worth?

After divorce, if kids are involved, it is important to be civil to each other.

Remaining friends is another matter. I honestly don't know if I could. The pain would be too much to bear I think.

[confusedman]

Well there's my answer anyway! First one-to-one contact with my wife in almost 3 weeks. Amicable enough beginning to the conversation as I sat in her car and we exchanged mail and made small talk. Conversation swung around to the ongoing separation agreement and the solicitors roles. My wife made noises to the effect that it was my fault that things had got messy and legal. Oh dear! Meeting ended with us arguing, and me leaving the car and slamming the door hard behind me. After she had gone, I phoned to apologise and was met with hostility and cruel remarks, and the reminder that she didn't need me or my friendship anymore. Mind boggling to believe that a year ago we used to lie in each others arms and talk about our love and the kids we planned to have. So much for a continuing friendship! It seems to have been smashed up also. How can civility and caring ever come back after deteriorating so far? As I said in a previous posting, I need to toughen up now and move on, because events like tonights will never in a million years bring us back together, and only reinforce her opinion that she was right to leave.

Easier said that done though, eh?

[Sierra]

Honest to god, why would you want to.

I guess in you mind it goes like this.


He met you.
He liked you.
He loved you.
He married you.
He met her
He liked her.
He cheated on you.
He divorced you.
He moved in with her.

An now he wants to be friends?

Screw him. Be civil when you have to and find someone who will love you. Period.

Its a self respect thing. You have to value yourself more than valuing him as a part of your life on his terms.

D

[visiting]

Sierra, you seem very bitter and angry. Wanna share your story, or just criticise vunerable people?

[smackie9]

Hey, straight and to the point! Just tell it like it is Sierra!

[Concerned Reader]

My two pen'orth.

It depends on what you mean by friends. I wouldn't be able, or interested, in being friends on a meaningful level, although I would just about be able to remain polite (I hope).

However, I do know of ex-couples who claim to be friends and one pair even say they should never have married as their correct alignment was always as friends.

What I do see, watching another family attempt to make a marriage stick despite a top table crowded with ex-partners, is that the partner who left is often very anxious to create the public perception that this was 'all amicable' and 'we are great friends now'.

Talk to the deserted partner and you will find a tight-lipped person repeating the mantra 'let's be polite, this is not place to go over that again'.

The 'let's be friends' schtick is usually a publicity stunt. Because people are mostly polite, the walk-away partner may even think it has worked! Confused man (I think) coined a wonderful term for behaviours which do not have real emotional content are are done purely for public view: 'a normality glaze'.

I'm not taken in for a moment by normality glazes and, when I'm not feeling polite, I generally say that with friends like that, who needs enemies?

Which gives Hope an even more serious problem (if such a thing were possible). Would you want to be married to someone you wouldn't have as a friend?

[Hope]

The being friends things is such a tough one.

My H doesn’t feel that he can ever be anything other than my friend even though he was the one who had the affair. After being separated for over 4 months now he’s began to display signs of regret and I guess he wishes he could turn the back time. He knows that he has destroyed the trust that we once shared and knows that I would never be happy had I agreed to “try again”. I would never have felt totally relaxed and I would have always been wondering if he was going to begin another affair if he ever began to feel unhappy again.

Perhaps his need to be friends is because he can’t let go of “us” and because we can’t salvage the marriage after destroying the “trust” part. Is he hanging onto the next best thing “friendship”. I wish it was that easy for me. I still have feelings of anger, resentment and love towards my H. My feelings are very messed up most of the time but H just takes anything I throw at him because he seems so desperate to be my friend still.

I’m not sure if friendship is possible when you are the victim of infidelity. It would be nice to hear from someone who has managed to remain friends but I think that it’s probably not the norm.

Confusedman ….. after reading your post I felt very sad that things are so rocky with you and your wife. If your wife were not so angry or upset do you think you would still accept the separation and manage to be friends?

[life eh?]

I'm inclined to agree with confusedman's earlier comments. My H abandoned our marriag e 10 weeks after our honeymoon...yet we spent 4 years together, lived together for a year in our engagement and had a wonderful intimate, catholic wedding, a family gathering of close friends and family. We're both in our mid 30's, not married before or any childen...and just because we had a couple of arguments about petty stuff around the house...he decided that we didn't get on, that he's too independant and wanted out and that I could never make him happy. In fact he didn't give me a chance to talk about it, he didn't want to, in fact he left me a note in a milk bottle and wanted me out of the house asap and that was that. I remained calm and decent throughout all of this and still got treated with cold indifference!

As it happens I got a work relocation to the US for a year, which I took 4 months after our separation...my H said to drop him an email from time to time and let him know how I'm getting on and that he was sorry that he hurt and wished me every success! I understand he's just started seeing someone in their late 20's and I guess moved on. I expect he only said stay in touch because it eased his guilt...rather patronising!

Can I be friends? NO. Simply because even though breaking up with someone is difficult, it can be done with respect and civility, but not much walkaways give a crap about that because all they are bothered about is themselves. Frankly my H's excuses for abandoning the marriage is pathetic...and he said he felt he's made a mistake marrying me..well as catholics we had to undergo marriage preparation, we spoke at length togther about marriage etc...I asked him on the odd occasion whether was this what he wanted us, forget the preparations and the excitement is this what you really want,..he said yes, he'd found the right woman and a few weeks before we got married he went on holiday with his parents for a golfing trip and told them how happy he was and that he loved me very much...well if he did have any doubts beforehand it would have been kinder to tell me beforehand, sure I'd be heartbroken, but it doesn't compare to what I'm feeling now, having been taken through my wedding day, a lovely honeymoon and 10 weeks later abandoning it all! We're not kids and he's in law enforcement, you'd think he'd be a little more responsible. In fact he was quite brutal how he ended it.

I don't say all of this through any anguish...I just don't have that same respect I had for my husband. I very much doubt he's thinking of me anyway. Both our families are stunned.

We all reach a stage I think where we do move on and forgive...I'm nearly there, not quite...but one thing is for sure, I shall never forget how I was treated throughout all of this. As far as I'm concerned, I don't recognise my husband, he's a complete stranger to me. Whilst love is a choice..I didn't deserve to be treated this way..with such cold indifference, ignoring me and the such like. In fact I could have understood it if I was pestering him with angry phone calls, but I left quietly with dignity and kindness whilst my heart was being ripped out...and still got treated very shoddily indeed. That's not the kind of friend I'd want to keep...I've got friends.

[life eh?]

And whilst I try so very hard to put myself in my husband's shoes..and whilst I realise walkaways that feel guilt and shame and usually run away from the situation...sometimes in life, no matter how hard it is, we need to do the right thing...it's not the decisions that are important in life, it's how we handle those decisions especially when someone else is in the frame.

[Confusedman]

Confusedman ….. after reading your post I felt very sad that things are so rocky with you and your wife. If your wife were not so angry or upset do you think you would still accept the separation and manage to be friends?


Hope,

It's becoming increasingly very doubtful that my wife and I can maintain any definition of friendship. As time moves on I am more and more taken aback by my wife's new found venom towards me. I don't know what I've come to represent to her, but one thing is for sure, every act of kindness and love I have shown towards her over the years seems to have vanished completely from her memory. Frankly, I simply don't deserve that level of contempt from anyone, especially from someone who I loved without condition for a decade. That said, in common with a lot of those who post here, I rarely feel anger - just an overwhelming feeling of betrayal and hurt. Anger may toughen me up. I wonder why it doesn't happen? Despite everthing, I still carry the first photograph I ever took of her (young, care-free and laughing) and my wedding ring, sealed together in a little bag in my wallet. Isn't that stupid?
As for the separation angle, I'm afraid that whereas I am having to accept that it has become an unshakable reality, I will never accept that it was a necessity. I can recollect my wife and I (in happier times) being utterly baffled by how easily some couples allowed their relationships to disintegrate. My wife has now become a hypocrite to every view and belief she once held or voiced. Although I (foolishly?) still hold part of her in my heart (can't seem to let go - it's engrained!) I am being sorely tested and I am astonished at myself for how much crap I have put up with of late. To be honest though, if a new loving relationship were to present itself to me tomorrow, I think I would now be in a position to move on with my life and leave the past in the past. Part of me is appalled to acknowledge that the shutters are being pulled down on a huge chunk of my life and that some of my most precious and happiest memories are being packed in a box marked 'history'. I would have loved to have added to the memories instead. I wanted to grow old with my wife, and pull out dog-earred photo albums for our kids to giggle over. That will never happen now, and our kids will remain unborn. I wonder what they would have looked like? What sort of family we would have been?
Jesus! I loathe being on my own - it only allows me to dwell on the 'what ifs' and the 'if onlys'. I've had enough of sleepless nights and days of deep, dark depression. Three months after my wife has left, and I am no nearer to figuring out what bomb went off in her head. I only seem to end up blaming myself for everything, and while I must accept that I messed up somewhere along the way (my wife did leave me after all!), am I being unfair to myself? A relationship is a two-way process, and my wife had her role to play in resolving any issues she had - nothing would have been beyond compromise for me. Instead, she walked away and left me a shattered wreck.
Oh dear!, I've babbled on more than I meant to. The simple fact is that I miss the comfort, companionship, friendship and love that used to form an integral part of my daily life. It made me feel safe and valued, and gave me strength and purpose. My reinvented wife shows no inclination to share any of these things with me anymore, so I must find someone else who will. I wonder if my wife ever has quiet moments of regret, or reflect upon the enormous amount of love we once shared? Wishful thinking on my part, I suspect. Mentally, emotionally and physically, she has gone, and that's the reality I need to deal with.

[Alan]

Confusedman - your story is a true mirror image of my own, and your words are so familiar.

I feel your pain too sir and fully empathise. I think though we are hardening to the situation we face, but yet, from my point of view, anger is the hardest emotion to demonstrate.

I'm not angry, nor bitter, just very , very disappointed and hurt.

Like you I carried a photo of my wife (still) in my wallet - until yesterday. After a particularly upsetting exchange of texts with her, where she revealed a situation that blew my trust for away, I took out her photo and ripped it up.

I wasn't angry though, just disappointed.

The part where you ask about quiet moments of regret and whether our spouses feel any ; well, I don't think so. If they do, it won't be admitted to anyone, not even to themselves. They have embarked upon a journey which has no return ticket and the route chosen will be littered with unimaginable sadness. Sadness which I think will be more extreme than the reasons for leaving in the first place.

Hard as it is for us, you, me, rejectedman and Hope, we all need to move on. For nothing else for our own sanity. We are good people and deserve much much more than we are getting.

It's unfortunate that our collective troubles are coming to a head at a time of year where the loving nature in us wants to be with our families.

We will survive though. As my old mum used to say "what does not destroy you, makes you stronger". How true, how very true.

You wrote " To be honest though, if a new loving relationship were to present itself to me tomorrow I think I would now be in a position to move on with my life and leave the past in the past"

Good for you. I admire you even thinking that far less saying it out loud. Our wives/husbands have chosen to discard our past efforts at loving them and refuse to let us in to sort what is percieved to be wrong, so why torture ourselves any longer?

Hope wrote that she couldn't just stop loving her H even though he had betrayed her ; I understand that too. I don't have an emotional tap that can be just switched off and it sounds like we are all the same her. My point? We deserve better than what we have received of late.

Everyone try to have a good weekend and keep posting. It's good therapy.

Alan

[Hope]

I’m amazed you gentlemen don’t have any moments of anger! I get angry on my own and then have a good old cry! I was soooooo upset one evening that I took a hammer to my wedding ring and flattened it. My eldest son unfortunately saw it and said what a waste of a good piece of gold! My youngest son snatched it off me and hurled it out of the window…. Its never been found since! I regret that moment and wish I’d managed to control my emotions. Perhaps when you are on the receiving end of infidelity you have more anger? Its very, very difficult accepting that your spouse shares love and affection with another person.

Confusedman,

Its nice to hear that you can look at photographs of your wife and recall sentimental occasions and memories etc. At the moment I can’t look at photos and I’m trying very hard not to even think about happy times we’ve share. I still have many feelings for my husband and to think about the past almost destroys me. The only way I’m coping is to keep busy and block out the memories of “us” so that I don’t get upset. Its nice if you can recall the “good times” and I hope in time I can do the same. You mention you have your wedding ring in your wallet – its certainly not stupid it just shows how much you cared for your wife and hopefully you’ll keep it safe for the rest of your lifetime. I don’t have my ring anymore due to my irrational behaviour!

I am also baffled by how easy it is for couples to suddenly change their feelings and just leave the marriage. I think the worst emotion of all is the rejection. Its good to hear that you have decided that another relationship would be a possibility for you if the situation arose. My worry is that I won’t be able to trust again! I will always be wondering if I will be deserted for the second time and I’m not sure I can allow myself to go through the same pain again. You say you hate being on your own? I do and I don’t – does that make sense? To a certain degree I like being able to devote a lot more of my time to the children plus I am beginning to enjoy my own space. I do miss is the companionship, the cosy evenings with a curry, dvd, a bottle of wine and interesting conversations. At the end of the day we all want to feel loved and needed and one day I’m sure we’ll be able to share this with someone special again.

Alan

You say that you don’t think that our spouses feel any regret or if they do they won’t admit it. My husband has shown signs of regret but has said that even if he did come back to the marriage I wouldn’t trust him and that he couldn’t watch me spend the rest of my life not being totally happy. He’s absolutely right in that I would never trust him and yes I suppose there would always be a part of me that wasn’t happy.

It’s a shame that people don’t think more carefully before they act really…… the grass always looks greener over the other side…….but it very rarely is!

Hope

[Confusedman]

Hi everyone, and thanks to all who replied to my last posting.
Just returned from a short break, visiting friends and family. Nice to forget about things for a while - but returned home to find a letter from my solicitor, updating me on the progess (if you can call it that) of my separation!
With Christmas just round the corner, I had forced myself to do a bit of shopping while I was away (my heart's just not in it though). Strange to be walking past things that I would have previously snapped up for my wife. Bought a few toys for my neices and nephews, which was emotionally tough because the way things are panning out, I can't see me being part of their lives for much longer either. As I said in a previous posting, all the kiddies are on my wife's side of the family, and since her family no longer keep in contact with me (still find that one hard to understand), this will probably be the last occasion where I get to be the good uncle. Another sad marker post, and another bitter pill to swallow! I feel like my life is being eaten away a piece at a time, and wonder when I wil be in control of it once more.
I am 'hmming' and 'ha-ing' at present over a small house I am thinking of buying. I suppose that will be the first major step on the road to my new life as a single man.
Scary as hell. Makes everything very final. Made me think how dramatically things can turn on their heads in a short space of time.
Last Christmas Eve, I was having a pint after work with a mate. I remember confiding in him about the problems my wife and I were having trying to start a family.
"Don't worry about it", he said, slapping me on the shoulder, "This time next year you'll be a dad, and you'll be boring everyone with baby stories!".

.........................Well, well, well. Isn't life cruel sometimes?

[Hope]

Hi Confusedman,

I totally understand where you’re coming from Confusedman. I have my two boys and my family to buy presents for and I haven’t brought one single gift yet – my heart isn’t in the shopping side of Christmas yet. I am panicking now because Christmas is just around the corner. This time last year I would have almost brought everything by now and would have enjoyed shopping with my husband followed by a wonderful lunch and cappuccino…. I miss all of that.

I feel the same with regard to my life also being eaten away piece by piece. I feel that my husband has chosen my fate and that I have no choice but to live the life HE has chosen to inflict on me…… its not fair really….. I also look forward to the day that I move into my own home so that I can finally be in control of my own life. This time nobody will take my home away from me!

Unfortunately I don’t have a very pleasant morning today because my husband and I have to meet up for a mediation meeting to discuss finances for the divorce. Last time we had the meeting I broke down because I just couldn’t face discussing the end of the marriage. I should have been composed and business like but I found it very difficult discussing all of this with total strangers! The financial side of things is such a worry to me. I also have to move house and downgrade the property that my husband and I shared during our marriage plus I have to get a job and hope that my husband gives myself and the boys enough money to maintain a reasonable standard of living. I doubt I’ll even be able to afford an annual holiday. I really feel for the children because they’ll end up suffering as a result of my husband’s selfish behaviour.

Last Christmas Eve my husband and I were sharing a bottle of wine followed by rushing around putting the boys presents in their Santa sacks after they’d gone to bed…… this year I’ll drink the whole bottle of wine to myself!!!

Hope

[Concerned Reader]

Dear Hope

You wrote some interesting things about how to talk to children about what has happened.

Why not extend that idea to mediators and lawyers? Why should they be allowed to ignore the human aspects of their job, how their clients hurt and humiliate unimpeachable partners and how they collude with it and try to normalize this squalid behaviour?

If remaining business-like is in your interests, that is one thing and you are the best judge of that. However, if people just want you to be quiet because it is convenient for them, well, tough.

It is, however, a general rule that if you can stay calm when money is being talked about you will negotiate better. Good luck in your negotiations.