Battleweary.......

[Confusedman]

Hi. Confusedman returns!

I am passing on some words of advice and warn you that they are harsh, and not easy to write (because they are hurtful to me also). But here goes:

Barring a miracle, our partners aren’t coming back. Ever.

Read through the threads of all those going through what we are going through - people who have had their wives or husbands walk out. The common factor is that, despite weeks or even months of patience, hope and heartache, most of are still grabbing at small straws of hope which are then snatched away on a regular basis.

The simple, painful truth is that if our partners have no interest in reconciliation, it will never happen. It doesn’t matter how desperately or passionately we want it, how genuinely we believe that everything can be put right, or how willing we are to compromise or change. Our partners aren’t in love with us anymore. That unique bond has been severed. They won’t come back out of sympathy or guilt, and we shouldn’t want them to return for those reasons anyway. As time goes on, and they embrace their ‘new’ life and sense of self, they emotionally distance themselves further and further. It would take a giant leap of the imagination to see how this action could ever lead to them falling in love with us again.

My wife has been gone just over three months now. Initially, my health and happiness suffered enormously. I became depressed and needed pills simply to get some sleep at night. I used to be in good physical shape, going to the gym at least four times a week, now I more inclined to reach for a beer. Three days ago, the sale was completed on what was once the matrimonial home. My wife has appointed a solicitor to ensure equal division of the equity, and we are having a Separation Agreement drawn up. Within the past week I have found out she has been on a couple of dates with another man. When challenged, she back-peddled furiously, claiming he was an old school friend, and the ‘dates’ had been nothing more that trips to the cinema. (Sorry, sweetheart, but I am not a stupid man. Dating is dating, is dating!).
That was the catalyst for an enormous row. Shouting and tears on both sides. I would have been prepared to forgive my wife almost anything, to work through any problem, but for me adultery (if it has reached that stage) is the line in the sand. So that’s apparently how quickly one partner can forget and move on after ten years of love, friendship, fidelity and commitment. This was the same woman who, less than a year ago loved me so much that she wanted nothing more than to have children with me. This was the same woman who, as we separated, insisted that the last thing in the world she wanted was another relationship, and that she wanted to be alone and independent, and to ‘find herself’!! Sickening, isn’t it? Now I am tormented by the thought of another man with my wife, and the prospect of that relationship becoming sexual. Every fibre of my being wants to go and kick the head off his shoulders, but where would that get me?
I went out on Saturday night, and fell in with the company of a very pretty young woman. Chatted away the whole night. I wasn’t looking for a date or anything like that, just enjoyed the company and allowed my battered self-esteem a little boost. However, even though nothing happened between us, and I went home alone, I still felt cheap and dirty. Dragged out the wedding album, and cried myself silly over the photos.

Sorry, if this has been a very bleak posting, but what I’m trying to say (and it’s as much for myself as for everyone else), is that there comes a time when enough is enough. A time when we have to resign ourselves (however reluctantly) to the fact that our partners are not who they once were. They are certainly far removed from the people we fell in love with. Additionally, they have caused us an enormous amount of hurt and pain, have utterly betrayed every investment of love and respect that we gave to them, and have treated us with great cruelty and disregard. Why do we continue to hunger for them? My wife is no longer the woman I married. If I had met this ‘new’ version back then, I wouldn’t have given her the time of day.

Folks, it is now time to bite the bullet and start rebuilding our own lives. If we don’t, we will just slide deeper into the abyss and it will destroy us further. Perhaps one day our partners will look back with a profound sense of regret and loss, but it can’t happen until the bubble they are in has been burst by some of life’s realities, and it takes a long time for that to happen.

Good luck to you all, and take care. If anyone out there can prove me wrong, I will begin to believe again.

Confusedman

[Anon]

Confused man - you are obviously feeling very bitter and negative towards your situation which is understandable.
What I do not agree with though is relating everyones situation to that of a failure.
I agree not all marriages work - that is a fact, but some, in fact alot do!!

If you need some proof - log onto divorcebusting.com and read through the thread on success stories.

There are so many success stories on here from people who have been through seperations / divorces and infidelity BUT have still come through and now have a very happy marriage.

My H left me and my daughter 6 months ago. Today even though he has not moved back home he now stays with us 2/3 nights a week.
To progress to this in 6 months I think is a massive achievement and one worth fighting for...

So for some people fighting for their marriage is worth doing and can lead to positive results.

Anon

[Alan]

The simple, painful truth is that if our partners have no interest in reconciliation, it will never happen. It doesn’t matter how desperately or passionately we want it, how genuinely we believe that everything can be put right, or how willing we are to compromise or change. Our partners aren’t in love with us anymore. That unique bond has been severed. They won’t come back out of sympathy or guilt, and we shouldn’t want them to return for those reasons anyway. As time goes on, and they embrace their ‘new’ life and sense of self, they emotionally distance themselves further and further. It would take a giant leap of the imagination to see how this action could ever lead to them falling in love with us again.
I sincerely hope that your paragraph above does not have the same outcome for all of us.

For my part, I would take my wife back under any circumstance right now. If nothing else to show her that life can be good together.

You are right on the not being able to influence them though. That's the hard part.

[Confusedman]

Hmmmm....
Think the point has been missed. Any marriage is worth fighting for (and potentially saveable) if BOTH parties are actively involved - even when the balance of effort is primarily weighted on one side! My message was aimed at those in situations parallel to myself. Distance and time have only resulted in less & less contact with my wife, and an apparent cementing of that division. Given that my wife has now 'tested the waters' by going on two dates with another man (whether 'platonic' or not), suggests her inclination to be anywhere near me borders on zero. I am a human being, with emotions and feelings, and don't deserve to have my face pushed further in the dirt. I fought for my marriage with all my energy, until I was mentally, emotionally & physically burnt out (and long after those around me advised me to move on) - have a read of my earliest threads to see how devasted I was.
I am glad that things are working out for you and your husband, and commend you for your patience - but at least he seems willing to attempt reconciliation, however slowly. Trust me when I say that I would trade EVERYTHING to have my wife and I back in the loving relationship we once had. But I also have to be realistic. That part of my life has become history. Despite my efforts, and varying approaches, I have seen nothing to suggest my wife has any inclination towards reconciliation. She has not wavered, and is simply getting on with her life without me (despite the hardships she is encountering). That is a fact. It does not matter an iota to her whether I put my life on hold and wallow in lonliness. She doesn't care any more. She has disengaged. In short, my happiness can no longer come from her, or through being with her. She has gone, and I therefore have to start to do things for myself, and by myself. If the future does happen to prove me wrong, and my wife and I can work things out, that's a bonus - and I will duly eat masses of humble pie on this forum. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. I've played all my cards, and haven't won a single hand yet!
Finally, I'm not trying to encourage people to be negative about their situation, but to try and be more positive for themselves. It's easier said than done, I know, and I am the living embodiment! I am finding the disintegration of my marriage, and the loss of my best friend, enormously difficult and overwhelmingly sad. But sometimes it's simply time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Confusedman

[Alan]

I'm so sorry to read/hear of what you have went through.

If you are satisfied that you have done all you can and can't progress it any further, you are the only one able to make that judgement.

The time and distance element of the DB techniques is, from what I have read, are a bit of a hit and a miss.

This is the phase myself and my wife are currently going through. For my part, I will stick to the rules. But so far it has only cemented her belief that going alone is the right way ahead.

In the past 6 weeks I have tried everything. The knife is in my back and it is being twisted.

I hope and indeed pray that your obvious love for your wife is reciprocated. I think, in time, it will.

[hurtnhadenough]

Confusedman,
I think you are confused no more. The only way to heal from the kind of betrayal we have been through, at the hand of our dearest loves, is to move on and rebuild our lives and to find ourselves again.
What I know in my head and what I feel in my heart are two separate things. They seem to be in constant battle with one another. I also see this battle throughout the posts on this forum. For me, It's come down to a matter of self respect.
My H walked out on me and our 2 children 17 months ago. I have used every tactic, scheme and method known to man in order to try to save my marraige. As a result he has used me as a pillow to fall on when he is sad or lonely only to walk away when he feels better. In retrospect, he has shown no reguard for my feelings or welfair.
Recently, I have met someone who treats me like I'm something special. This has been such an eye opener for me. I can no longer justify my H's crumbs of attention and affection as a depressed man who needs the love and support of his wife to get him through his MLC. It is now clear that he is the guilty party.
The hard part for me is that my self esteem is now so low. I find it hard to accept complements or to trust others.
Since our last attempt at reconcilliation, this summer, I have cut off all contact with my H except for quick e-mails and phone calls reguarding child care issues. Would'nt you know, Saturday my H calls to ask if we can talk. He is quite upset, however, he is too busy with his social schedule to know when he might be available for this talk. Could it be that the holidays are comming around?
Anon, I wish you only the best. But from my perspective, your H is the puppeteer and your his puppet. This coming, with love, from the greatest puppet of all.

[Concerned reader]

Dear Confused man

I'm so sorry that it worked out this way.

You said that you had played all your cards and not won a single hand. That is a bleak image. You never were playing a zero-sum game; you were never in a life where your winning was at the expense of your wife losing.

The way I prefer to tell the story, a man is severely tested and does indeed lose what he hoped to keep, but not for want of trying. He never surrenders his integrity. When he opens the photograph album, it is to mourn for what was good.
It isn't the happy ending the story deserves, but neither is it failure.

Suppose he had never tried to be married at all? Suppose he had soured it with a string of pointless affairs? Suppose he had shut the door in an almighty huff and yelled 'well, if that's how you feel about it, I'm off up the club'?

If this were a play, I doubt that you would want to play any of those parts. They are small men from low-budget soap operas.

You really did love her. You really do. When you made promises, you meant them. That is courageous and expensive and it is in the nature of heroes that they get hurt more because they dare more.

I hope you begin to feel better soon.

[Anon]

Hi

I understand your comments regarding seeing me as the puppet and my H as the puppeteer, but if at the end of the day being in these roles enables us to develop a happy marriage then I have done the right thing.

When my H walked out 6 months ago he told me our marriage was over. I was hurt and devastated but I refused to accept it as the end of my marriage. I felt deep down no matter how bad things felt then that things could get better between us and our marriage could work. Even if my H could not see this at the time. I took up the divorce busting methods becuase everything I had been trying previously was not working. I tried everything I could think of to no avail, my H was not having any of it. I knew I wanted to make my marriage work but was not sure what to do next. Following DB methods has restored my faith in myself, my H and my marriage. Yes there are no guarantees and yes I have had to do the lions share of the work, and if this has made me the puppet then so be it. My H was the one who was skeptical about our marriage so it was down to me to prove that our life together can be different. Yes it feels one sided at times but for now I have swallowed my pride and got on with it. I have changed the way I think and approach or react to situations and have replaced all the old ways that were not working with new ideas.
Yes it has been hard, and I have had to find a patience I never knew i had, but the results if you monitor them have been fantastic and have motivated me so much.
To think that 6 months ago my H told me our marriage was over, yet now he spends evey day with us and stops over 3 nights a week just goes to prove that the method I have used does work.
Ok - my marriage is not 100% back on track but we are getting there and I beleive that if I had not applied the DB techniques I would be in a very different situation now. To me it has been well worth the fight and effort!

Anon

[Alan]

Good for you Anon. You have indeed learned a lot in what is very trying times.

I admire your resilience.

I think the puppet/puppeteer line is descriptive but unfair. If you are willing to be the puppet then I agree.

Keep at it. Please.

[hurtnhadenough]

Anon & Alan,
I have been reading this mesage board for months now and my heart goes out to each and everyone of you. I am afraid that I allow myself to get more involved with all of your grief than I have a right to.
That being said, I also have been experiencing all of the heartache and momentary joys that all of you are expressing. I have felt more pain and confusion in the last 17 months than in my whole 42 years of life. And when I read that someone is finally taking back control of thier life and feeling that bit of strength that is needed in order to help them heal only to be, once again, encouraged to keep working at a one sided relationship, it breaks my heart!
It takes two people who have a desire in order for a relationship to work.
My puppet/puppeteer comment may have sounded harsh, but my god, is this the relationship you want? Where is the mutual respect? You are demonstrating to him that he has all of the control and you have none! You are setting a precidence now that is not part of a healthy relationship! Your children are watching and learning from you how to behave in thier future relationships and marriages. You are demonstrating to them what is acceptable and what is not.
You can live in fantasy land if you want to, but personally, I think you deserve better. We all deserve to be treated in a loving mannor and if that is not in our H's plan....Then they should stay away until it is.

[Kate]

Dear All,

I don't think there is one answer that fits everyone's situation. Each situation mentioned in this thread is different, the result of two (or more) lives, actions, decisions, attitudes, backgrounds. For some the route Anon has taken will be the right one, for others the "moving on" route may be what is needed.

We only get a glimpse of each other's situation here. It's very easy to superimpose our own experience onto other people's situation, but that's not always helpful.

I don't think images of puppet and puppeteer are very helpful, because when we're feeling insecure, powerful images like that can further confuse us and undermine our fragile progress.

We can support each other and be reassured that we are not alone, but there is no simple straightforward way forward that fits each situation.

Lets try and be gentle with each other wherever possible and encourage each other to take responsibility for our mistakes, our own situation and our own tentative steps forward.

Kate
:)

[Alan]

Kate, wise words indeed - thank you.

I have taken great inspiration from reading and posting on this board and without it, I'm truly not sure I would be able to cope.

'Anon's' points are valid though and as strange as it may sound, I fully understand where she is coming from. For the first time in 5 weeks I'm beginning to realise the wisdom in 'doing things for yourself'.

I still love my wife. I want her back. I've realised I don't need her, but nevertheless I would crawl across broken glass to have the opportunity to fix what is perceived to be wrong.

I've thought long and hard about the reasons why she chose to leave ; and while I understand some of why's and wherefores, I can't influence her decision.

I've begged, pleaded, cried, 'kicked the cat', did the 'why me' thing' and unwittingly tried to get others involved, and those of you out there will know, none of this works. At all. Ever.

I'm not at all sure that my beautiful wife (and she truly is) wants to come back to our home but if and when she does make that decision, I can say, hand on heart, swearing on our son's life, that there will be no recriminations from me.

The decision is purely hers.

If that makes me a puppet, then I'm guilty, but strangely proud of it! Does that make sense?

Of the few 'real' friends who have stuck by me in recent weeks, all have commented that in the last week they have noticed a marked change in my attitude, with one in particular telling me that I was a better person.

Do you know how that feels?

My only wish is that I could demonstrate those changes to my wife, but as I said, I (we) can't influence that.

Time indeed is a healer, and while the pain is constant, it's not as sharp as it was.

I thank God (or whoever) that my son is with me ; he's an angel personified.

Let me say out loud that for an eight year old, he's showing remarkable maturity throughout all of this and I'm very, very proud of him.

He faces long days because of my work situation (own business etc) and has not complained once. Not once. He's his mother's son alright!!

Why mention this? Well, before all of the recent trials and tribulations, I can confidently say that I would not have noticed any of these things. At all. He's a lovely wee man and I think I can honestly say that love is defined by him.

Soppy? Probably, but true nevertheless.

I'm now going to be taking time off from posting here ; I need to concentrate on doing the right things consistently and be mindful of 'Concerned Reader's' comments on priority. My son is No1 on that list, but I'm not going to be third.

Thanks to all who have posted here with kind and considerate comments and real empathy.

I pray that all of us find a resolution to our problems,and soon.

Take Care

Alan

[hurtnhadenough]

Kate, Alan & Anon,

My intention is not to be unkind, on the contrary. I wish only the best for all of us. However, I believe that my message about respectful behavior (on the whole) is the answer to fit all situations. I never suggested that anyone "walk away". I am simply suggesting that we should remember that we deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and not subject ourselves to behavior that will further damage our self worth i.e. hanging on to false hope or being controled by Dr. Jeckle & Mr. Hyde mood swings.

I would like to answer a question I have heard many times on this forum: yes, I have heard first hand success stories from people in similar situations to ours that have worked out. In fact, separation was the best thing that happened to thier marriages. And in every one of these situations, the spouse who was left, stood up for themselves, regained his/her dignity and started working on becoming the person they really wanted to be or lost track of, prior to any reconcilliation.

Alan, You insinuate that I am not kind or conciderate or one with real empathy. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares enough to say it like it really is. We're all here looking for answers to relieve our pain. I've been where you are and now I am in a position to help. That is all I am trying to do. As a matter of fact, I lost sleep the night that you posted your suicidel sounding post about a month ago and responded to you with my concern. I suppose I could "candy coat" my messages, but what good would that do any of you?

By the way, After 17 months of hearing how my husband dosent love me anymore and how everything that went wrong in his life was my fault. Yesterday, my Husband took the day off work. just to take me out for lunch and ask for my forgiveness. He misses me and he loves me and he wants to come home. He said that he is now willing to do the work needed to make that happen. I never thought he would come around. And you should know that I love my Husband more than life itself. Tell me, do you think that it is a coincidence that once I finally stopped working so hard on getting him back, but instead worked puttting my life back together, He now wants me?

[Alan]

I have to respond to your message.

My way with words sometimes is my downfall ; just ask my wife!! (Gallows humour!!).

In no way was I insinuating that hurtnhadenough did not empathise or indeed care. Far from it. I was agreeing with Kate that one size does not fit all.

I remember well enough your kind words of 4 weeks ago when it did appear thru' my words that I was on the verge of doing something daft and it was very much appreciated.

And believe me, you help is still sought!!

And your final paragraph is an inspiration to us all. I'm glad the corner has been turned. Well done you!

[Anon]

Alan - good luck to you in the next few weeks - I admire your strength and comitment to yourself and your son.

Hurtandhadenough - I am delighted with your H's return, this is fantastic news.

As Kate mentioned, even though we are all working towards similar goals which are:
To improve our marriage AND to enhance our own individual lives, we ALL have different ways of doing this. What works for some does not work for others.
I think it is good to support each other, whatever way we try to move forwards.
I appreciate my way of working through things may not be suitable to others, but it has been the best way for me so far. I have felt much better in myself/ more confident as an individual and the changes in my H have been fantastic. He shows me more respect, listens and acts on my opinions and is more loving to me.

Whatever is working for each of us is what we should continue with. Its when things are not working and we are unhappy that we should look to change our approach.

Best of luck to you all

Anon

[Concerned reader]

Dear Hurtnhadenough

I'm sorry to pester you for details as you must have plenty to be getting on with, but several people have pondered what 'doing things for yourself' actually means.

Since you have 'worked on putting my life back together' and reached satisfying point, I'd be very interested to learn exactly what things you did, what worked for you and what things were a complete waste.

I'm glad to read things are looking up.

[hurtnhadenough]

Concerned reader,
This is the part that is different for everyone.

In my situation, first, I had to distance myself from my husband both pysically as well as emotionally. I asked him not to contact me except for child care related issues.

I forced myself to redirect my thinking whenever I would fixate on the whys & what's he is up to's. I stopped "checking up on him" through his family & friends and cut off contact with them.(temporarily) I constantly remind myself that the best revenge is a life well lived and am determined to plow through this phase of rejection to secure a happy future. I also decided that I could be happy all by myself (This was a big one for me).

So, I blocked his IMs and tried my best to be as short as possible with my contact with him. I stayed as pleasant as possible without being too accomodating. I started saying no!

I started spending the time I would usually spend pineing over my husband, exploring my creative outlets. For me that is fashion, home design & photography. I also began accepting every invitation that came my way. I stopped talking about my husband to everyone who would listen and instead kept conversation as possitive as possible.

I hope you find this helpful.