18yrs 4kids Nosex? Is It Saveable?

[Knowitall]

I NEED A WOMAN'S ADVICE. I am the perfect husband I thought. Teacher sober fit thoughtful I was always attentive, never violent etc etc. All I wanted was to be a good father and husband. We had three children under 5, and one we discovered is autistic. We struggled through. I know now I took my wonderful wife for granted. She was the most beautiful woman I had ever known. When she felt I had neglected her she started an affair with a lad 15 yrs younger. The discovery of this nearly destroyed us. It was her 40th. A midlife call for attention and help. I could not deny the children their mother. We are well known in my town and so we quietly went to counselling in the big city nearby. We survived. We are catholic and I teach in the high school that is just over the road. After four years I felt that the shadow had passed. We were rewarded with another baby, not planned but he had been discussed. I felt strong enough to leave the school to further my career and earn us more money. My wife had been stressed at her job and I used the excuse of the baby to say she should give up work for a while. So instead of being over the road I was much further away. I was very happy and could not predict the roof falling in. She now says she has been forcing herself to have sex with me and will not do it any more. She has been to a solicitor to determine her rights. She will not go to counselling as she found it humiliating last time. My higher appetite for sex and use of porn in the bedroom has destroyed her love for me. I had brought porn in for her enjoyment too, I thought. When the kids are knocking on the door artificial aids concentrate the mind.

Here is my dilemma then. There are three possibilities, she will stay in the house for a year but will not touch me not even affectionate cuddles. Can I stand to be at such a distance from this woman I love and find sexually arousing after 19 years just as much as when we met? Second she has been unfaithful again and is trying to blame me for the wrecking of our life together. Should I force another revelation to discover this latest affair? And if I do can I forgive her again? Third this has been such a sudden switch from her looking for and accepting affection can it be a kind of breakdown delayed from the first time with issues still unresolved.

The children are picking up signs and say nothing but I look as if I have been in a car crash.

Can the use of toys and porn be that bad? I have never been unfaithful, to my mind anything that does no harm to others in the bedroom is acceptable.

As I stagger through the days I find signs that could be evidence of wrongdoing e.g. she talks to her best friend in secret (female) should I dig to find the truth or does that confirm her view that I do not love her, I just want sex.

Is it saveable? When a woman refuses counselling that is a bad sign.

[Liz]

Dear Knowitall,

It is hard not to know it all, not to know all the answers. Could your wife be suffering from post natal depression?

Would she talk to your local priest as a mediator to sort things out between you?

I'm not sure about the porn and toys. Some women find those things degrading. Have you managed to really listen to what is upsetting her and been able to talk through the possibilities that you might change the way you behave where that behaviour is upsetting her. For example are you able to match your sexual appetite with hers to ensure she doesn't feel under pressure. have you talked about the way you each experience being loved. Gary Chapman's boo (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/healthclose/fivelovelang/)k is very good on this.

I would suggest that you try to get her to talk to a counsellor or your priest or to find a marriage course to go on together. If you can convince her that you want to put things right between you she may respond positively.

Liz

[Knowitall]

Thanks for your comments Liz.


Things have moved on a little. She has booked us into a counselling session but I still feel she is just angling for a separation. She wants to say she has tried all that she can and the relationship is over.

As I read over my first note I think I sound a bit stupid. How could I have done all that work to repair my marriage for 5yrs and still end up ignoring her feelings?

Can I get her to love again? I made a mistake I think, when saying we would go to counselling she asked what would happen if it failed. I did not want to say I would move out. she then said I was being unreasonable and she should stay in the house as the prime carer. What should I do? If she wants it to be over shouldn't she go? The next morning after being very angry she wanted sexual contact with me. But only for her satisfaction. A kind of revenge, but should it give me cause for hope? I need a womans view here> I am struggling to understand what is going on in her head.

[Knowitall]

Update. We just had our first counselling session. It was awful.She said it was only to help me face up to the end of the relationship. I broke down. Now its 4AM and I can't sleep. We talked at length about the abuse she feels she has suffered at my hands for the past 18 yrs. The children will be next to find out. I think the eldest is aware already. I got the book from Amazon. The 5 languages of love. I think I can see a pattern. I have loved her in this physical way and she has tried to love me in acts of service. Neither feels loved and both feel they have loved. Can I pull us back from the brink? She may still be having an affair of some kind. Is this a breakdown? What is the best way to handle a separation? I don't (don@t) want to move out but I don't want to make her either. It would destroy her. I love her so, how can I show her.

[Concerned reader]

You have a little more time than you think as she has done the first counselling session.

That means that although she does not want to negotiate at the moment she is determined that you should know and appreciate why she wants to leave. (Compare this with partners on the board who have not ever received any plausible reason for the breakdown of the relationship.)

Now, if she has given you concrete reasons as to why she is unhappy, you can address those one by one. The counsellor is presumably able to clarify for you what she is saying as it can be very difficult to take that in when one is so distressed.

Can you get a positive change under way, even if it is only in a single area, to show how seriously you take this? Is there anything you could tackle immediately?

After reading these boards and living a peculiar life, I have come to the conculsion that sometimes a partner saying 'I want out' means exactly that, but at other times it is just a loud shout of 'Pay attention. You are getting me wrong"

Unfortunately, I have no way to tell which is which. However, actions do speak very loud and you wife has not, correct me if I have misunderstood, actually gone anywhere or refused to speak to you except via lawyers?

[Knowitall]

Thanks for pointing that out. It was obvious but it escaped me. My problem is that she is such an intelligent woman that any artifice is impossible. she sees any return to closeness even a peck on the cheek as the start of the slippery slope. I must just want to get in her pants. So when the counsellor asked what she wanted to change or achieve through the process she could only reply, to show him it is over. How can I start a dialogue to hear her pain and anger when she has cut herself off so totally. The eldest girl 14, now knows we are having difficulties. Their pain is unbearable to think of.

How could I have been so stupid and have let this woman get to such a wilderness of bleak feeling?

All the exercises that build up the feelings between couples require her cooperation and she can see them coming a mile off. How can I play for time and get her attention? I ask god to bless my words but all they get are bitterness in return.

I have read a lot in the past month, typical bloke response, I see it as 18 years of preparation for the real relationship to now have a chance of blossoming. Others all talk of the great love that is possible after this sort of phase in life. I can even stand back sexually to give her space but how long will it take before she thinks I am committed regardless of that?

[Helper]

You are on the right track reading Gary Chapman's book about the love languages. I've got a lot more stuff to go along with Gary Chapman's main ideas if you want them. Email me at ivantraylor@hotmail.com and I will send it to you.

I found Willard Harley's book that covered the 5 most basic needs that women have and the 5 most basic needs that men have to be the most (His Needs/Her Needs) enlightening.

One of the first things you need to do to see into your wife's female soul is to cut the porn completely. This may sound extreme but I guarantee to you it is 100% okay with God and your wife-when you see a woman and a man so much as kissing in a movie-do not look. It is the beginning of the sacred when a man and a woman do something that is inherently private and arousing in nature. As long as those things are firing your sex drive and your overall attitude-you haven't got a chance of rebuilding your marriage. ...And yes, many women find the sex toys very degrading-I would completely get rid of them no matter how much you paid for them. (She wants YOUR love, the pleasure is secondary-the sex toys are a CLEAR statement to her that pleasure is all your after)

I also wouldn't push sex for awhile. If she lets you touch her in anyway for the next few weeks-months, don't do anything but stroke her hair and hold her affectionately unless she completely comes after you.

Guess what else you need to chunk? Anything around the house like internet surfing or TV watching that is causing your attention to be diverted from your wife and children needs to be completely abandoned. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS EXTREME, but Stephen Covey (7 habits of Highly Effective People-best seller) says that to be successful in any endeavor (marriage included) means that you need to put your concern and time into those people in your life that you can influence (influence does not necessarily mean "change" here. Laughing and playing games with your family and children is "influencing" them). So don't let yourself be concerned with people and events that either you cannot influence or cannot influence you. Primetime sports, news, favorite shows-what the heck does any of that have to do with anybody you know or have to do with your family-besides the fact that they all watch it?

NOTHING-it has absolutely nothing to do with it. My wife and I have completely abandoned all forms of broadcast TV and guess what-our family time is usually awesome and filled with laughter! We do not feel this constant pressure to abandon our attentions toward each other to see what is on the dad gum TV!

Here is another piece of advice for you. While many women enjoy sex, most women would MUCH RATHER know that you love them by you bringing them surprise gifts and by spending time talking to them (30 minutes to 2 hours a day with your FULL attention, interest, and involvement in the conversation). My rule of thumb is to bring my wife a surprise gift (doesn't have to cost much-favorite candy bar-earrings-something she has been asking for) as often as I really need sex from her. She needs to know that I think of her when I am away-and getting her something really helps.

Lastly, the biggest part of this battle is spiritual. You can't do all these things I have suggested on your own strength. You must find a way to completely surrender to God in a way that you never have before. You must talk to him directly in prayer and ask him to help you change. God sent his Son to die for you-he wants you to have the very best. Let him be your source!

It would be very good for you to find someone you respect (who has been happily married awhile and believes in God (sorry if that offends but its important)), and tell them what changes you are going to make in your life-BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THEM! Meet with them no less than weekly face to face to talk with you about how things are going.

May God Bless You and Strengthen You,
Ivan

[Kate]

Hi there, Knowitall

You've made a start and your wife now has a way she can express her concerns. That opens up new possibilities for the future. I agree with the other postings that you have na opportunity to show that you can change. I would suggest that you change because you know it's the best thing for all concerned and to avoid doing it just to get her back. Right now it is unconditional love that you want to show her, and that accepts that she may in the end choose to walk away. Any changes you make will be to your benefit and the childrens even if things don't work out.

One key may be to ask her for forgiveness (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/relbasictopic/forgive/) for the ways you have hurt her. This is different from saying sorry, because it hands over control to her to choose whether to forgive you or not. There have been mistakes on both sides that need forgiveness, but the husbadn should always show the way by beign the first to ask for forgiveness. In the end that is the real heart of healing your relationship. Unless forgiveness is asked for and received any future relationship between you will not be healthy.

His needs, her needs is reviewed here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/healthclose/needs/).

I agree that you have resources in your faith that you can draw on. For some spiritual hope why not look here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/tips/hope.html). For more information about how porn can damage a marriage why not look here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/php-bin/jump.php?linkid=69).

I hope that you can find the support and hope you need. It will take time.

All the best

Kate