belated honeymoon

[jasminebose]

Hi guys,

After my latest post 'going crazy' I thought we all could do with a happy post for a change! My husband and I sorted it out and both apologised for our crazy behaviour. Best of all we've just booked a holiday to go and see his sister who lives in Dubai. I am so excited we've never been away together anywhere since we got married 2 years ago (no honeymoon!).
Also I wanted to express my surprise and happiness to you all about how quickly you can feel hopeful again about mariatal problems that you had convinced yourself were impossible. I guess (as Kate says) feelings are really not good guides to base your decisions on and we could all do with bearing in mind that they are temporary states only. You will feel happy again!
Sorry if this comes across as giddy and naive to all of you in despair right now but I figured happiness might be infectious!
JZ

[Claire]

Ah I'm so pleased everything's working out for you...the power of talking eh...so simple and yet sometimes so hard to do. Have a fantastic holiday, you both deserve it :)

Claire

[jasminebose]

Hi Claire,
Thanks. I hope things are improving for you too. Felt bad about my holiday when I read Star's post, I hope she has a fun home vacation too. I still have 2 weeks to go before I go and will have to co-exist with my excitement til then so hopefully no more marital drama to report too soon! Thanks again,
JZ

[Claire]

we'll be away at the same time then...I'm going to Spain with the kids and some friends...it'll be fun but I suspect not quite as relaxing as your holiday :)

[Noddy]

Jasmine

That's wonderful news, I'm so pleased for you...have a great time!

Claire...

Following on my yesterday's posts.. I'm struggling right noe and having a hard time to face my 'fear' head on right now. I really do believe my husband has moved on and the rest of my belongings and the separation agreement I imagine he will get around to when he can be bothered. I'm only reading into the delay with things because I want to save my marriage and clutching on to straws of hope.

Whilst I was encouraged by a call from his sister-in-law, I think it was just a call out of concern that was all.

[Claire]

Ok Noddy, like I said it's not down to anyone else, only you...do whatever you have to to make you happy now. Whatever happens I really do think that some day, hopefully not to far off, we'll all be thinking "well that was the best thing that could have happened..." That's me all over...short term pessimist, long term optomist. I know for sure it'll all work out for the best in the end, but I am equally sure it'll be bloody hard work getting there!

[Noddy]

Thanks, I know...I just wish there was some reassurance along the way that I knew what is happening with him and why the delay with things and no contact at all from him, it's so hard.

[ohm]

HI Jasmine,
Love is a big deception. I bet Jasmine when you return, you would be crying, moaning, regretting why you decided to go..
Did you read the story Three Years by Chekhov.
Today morning, sitting in the bus on my way to the ofice, I read Chekhov's Gooseberries and I relaised that life has so many dimenions and we fools are stuck in 'husband wife ' confusions which has no end.
Recently I read about Kafka in a book:
With his honesty Kafka could write only about what he had himself experienced. He recorded his lonely road into the depths. .... he was unable to severe himself from his father, nor did he bring himself to complete love, that was his abyss.
Best of Luck

[Claire]

Kafka sounds like he needs to get a life

[jasminebose]

Hahaha! Don't know about Kafka, but Ohm you are right to some extent. You are always so cheery! Still haven't got around to finishing 'three years' but I was reading more Chekhov today actually. What you have to remember with Chekhov is that he is a bit jaded. Yes love can be hurtful and selfish (i.e. always in love with someone who isn't in love with you, or worse your sister/best friend) but not always. Its the only real chance we have at being happy and growing as people and improving. I love Chekhov precisely for his miserable attitude and I can see the truth in it but as I originally posted, one can go from feeling miserable in love to happy in love in an amazingly short time. Thats why such strong and confusing feelings can't really be trusted to guide your decisions. I don't think that makes us stupid for trying to be more happy in love though, its why we're here I think.

[ohm]

Hi Jasmine,
We are not trying to be stupid, I agree but our misery lies in not learning from our expereinces.

[ohm]

Ivan Klima in Love and Garbage writes:
Hate is misakenly regarded as the opposite of love, whereas in reality it stands alongside of love and the opposite of both of them is loneliness. We often believe that we are tied to someone by love, and meanwhile we are tied to them only by hate, which we prefer to loneliness.
Hate will remain with us so long as we do not accept that loneliness is our possible, or indeed necessary, fate.

[ohm]

Ivan Klima:
Man is reluctant to accept that his life has come to a conclusion in that most important respect, that his hopes have been fulfilled. He hesitates to look death in face, and there is little that comes so close to death as fulfilled love.

And Finally,
Man longs to get close to the person he loves, and in doing so hurts and betrays that person and himself, and thereby he commits a crime.

All the best

[Kate]

I know you're just quoting from books, but I don't agree that fulfilled love comes close to death, unless it's death to self will for the sake of another. Nor do I think I betray myself or hurt my husband when I come close to him. I know sometimes in life it's hard to believe joy exists, but it does!

Kate

[jasminebose]

Ohm,

Interesting quotes- why does Klima think fulfilled love is like death? I wondered whether he meant that once you have what you wanted (after the 'chase') you no longer want it. The grass is always greener idea.
I agree with you about it being stupid not to learn from experience but sometimes you have to go through the same situation (or a variant on it) many times before you learn the lesson. That's what I meant about love being why we are here- it teaches us about ourselves. Love and hate are 2 of the strongest emotions we can feel and you get to feel them both a lot when married! Speaking of which whats happening with you and your wife?
JZ

[ohm]

HI Jasmine,
I feel I have lost my capability to love because she says I want sex not love. All my efforts ranging from folding hands before her to giving her expensive jewellery just to prove that my sexual desire has emerged from my emotional and spiritual longings to be in the arms of someone so near and dear to me have brought no good. Recently I showed her a movie on Tantaric Sex to show her that through love and sex one can fly above the sky and dive deep into the ocean but she is firm on her opinion about me and that hurts me and in bouts of anger I abuse her, blames her for spoiling my life. I had never wept in my life, even when my near and dear ones were on their death beds, I was brave enough to accept the harsh realities of our mundane existence but the other day the whole thames river came out of my eyes, lyng in the bed she just touched my arms to sooth me and as I began to melt with her touch she fell asleep which further hurt me and the whole night I was awake not understanding where to go. Alcohol I avoid and I take it only socially that too for the sake of taste only and not to supress my depression. SO I was very confused the whole night thinking that I have a life stretching before me, the life I have no idea what to do with. And gradually I am coming to the conclusion that my approach to happiness is wrong, that there is some fundamental fault in my perception, so these days I am behaving normally with my wife on physical level, although I get irritated very soon but with all my strength and intellect I try to make myself understand that I must channelise my energy somewhere else instead of wasting it on bickering and arguing. As far as sexual desire is concerened, it occurs to me that the only possible solution is an electric doll.

[jasminebose]

Hi Ohm,
I am sorry to hear things haven't improved much for you. At least she is with you now. I think you really love her and want to make it work but are perhaps focusing too much on the lack of sex and going about trying to improve things in the wrong way. No-one can tell you how to persue happiness or how you will find it but I think concentrating on what's missing will certainly not help.

A woman needs to feel emotionally connected to a man before she wants to have sex and if she feels you are only interested in sex she will not be willing! I am not blaming you but you may want to try spending time with her, helping her around the house, hugging her- anything that is non-sexual caring, without pressure. Giving her presents is nice but at the moment I suspect she sees it as a bribe! The problem of mis-matched sex drives is such a common problam and can be solved..I wouldn't turn to dolls quite yet...

She needs to understand your drive is a reflection of how you feel about her but in order for her to realise you really love her (not just want her) you have to give her attention, listen to her and care for her, while expecting nothing physical in return. Not easy!

I know you are interested in the 'big thinkers' and possibly not pop psychology books but the book 'men are from mars, women are from venus' by John Gray talks about these basic sex differences and how to adapt to them- might be useful for both you and her to read. I know I would be impressed if my husband bought a relationship book!!
Good luck,
JZ

[ohm]

I agree with you completely.
But I believe that I give too much attention to her. I hug her sometimes just to show her that I care for her. But she slips from my hug because she does not like me hugging her. At day time she says, it (just hugging) will create bad impression on the child, at night she believes my moves are based upon 'low calculations'. I am a good listener. when someone talks to me, I listen with patience and attention. My wife when speaks to me, I leave every thimg I am doing as I feel that the time that she spends with me is very precious and I don't want to loose a single moment of it. But when it comes to me saying my feelings on some deep issues of life or expereinces on some trivial matters like who said what to whom in the office, she gets bored, goes to the kitchen or yawns and falls asleep, if in the bed.
She says that I am a boring person. I have forgotton to talk interestingly the way i did before marriage and I am too self centered.
What could I say in such moments but to accept that we are the two opposite shores of a sea, and the only bridge connecting us is our child for whom I feel quite responsible as he is a result of my love (or my fault).
Anyhow this thread belongs to you Jasmine, so let me stop here. You tell something about yourself. You must be having deep understanding of life and relationships( as is clear from your posts), so I hope your husband might have felt fortunate to fall in love with you.

[jasminebose]

Hi again Ohm,

I didn't feel you were taking over the thread at all, your story is as interesting as mine!

Its funny, what you said about your situation is very like what my husband complains about. My husband puts me on a pedastel, gives me everything I want and sometimes feels that he gets my indifference in response. I know I am guilty of that, although I've never told him he is boring, as your wife put it!! I understand how frustrating it must be, to try and tell your wife something about your day/interests and to be met with disinterest. I can't explain it. Perhaps it is a result of what you said- being given too much attention. When my husband is busy I want to talk to him, if he is with someone else (friend/family) I want him back! Women are strangely fickle, they say they want attention but when you give them too much (undivided) attention they don't want it anymore! Bizarre. That is perhaps why I was madly infatuated with an ex who never used to give me attention- it kept me chasing him. So if your wife has grown tired of being chased, let her chase for a change! I'm not suggesting game playing but if you have tried giving attention and she doesn't appreciate it then try another tactic- try being busy!
Although I did a psychology degree and read relationship books avidly I have difficulty applying what I learn to my own relationships! So my best bet is to try and give out advice!

JZ

[ohm]

Hi Jasmine,
Hope you are fine. Read Chekhov's 'A story about love'. It is brilliant.
Regards

[jasminebose]

Hi Ohm,

Cheers for the tip- will def look it up. I am in fact not well! Just got back from holiday in Dubai and was sick in my final days there. I am recovering now and my husband was amazing and so supportive I love him 2 million times as much as before! So body sick but heart very happy and healthy!
Hope you are doing ok,
JZ