Loveless marriage [Archive] - 2-in-2-1 Discussion Forums

Unregistered

17th March 2004, 03:24 PM

hi there bill

life is to short to be unhappy. honesty in a marriage is very important. what if the shoe was on the other foot? think about it? what if your wife felt the way you do about you and you didnt know?
i know its not easy and the fact that there are children envolved makes it harder. i know sometimes we all have to bit our tonges sometimes. this way no one gets hurt. but the reality of it is that life is not like that. i wish it could be but its not. i, as a female, would rather know the truth and much as it might hurt everyone involved.
how much longer do you think you can keep faking it (as you say you are doing)? what if it "cracks" one day and she finds out that you have felt the way you do for a long time? i wouldnt like that--as a female. i would feel lied to--and thats not good either.
you are in a rough place, i can sense that in your note. i am to. i have a husband that wont even talk to me. not a word. imagian that. not a word. its like im not even here. yes, i have 2 children too so i know what your saying as far as them being happy. but you know what bill, they arnt. children are smart as a whip when it comes to feelings. i know my children can tell how things are in our home. they have a "sense" so to say. i wish there was a way we could chat more. i know i cant help you make a decision here, but i could just chat if you would like.
wish you the best.
_sky_

Unregistered

17th March 2004, 03:32 PM

Hi Sky,

I knew someone would say something like that :)

Do the hard thing.

I know what you're getting at, but isn't there some alternative?

I'd like to chat. Contact me at Iamnotreallybill@aol.com

All the best,

Ian

Unregistered

17th March 2004, 05:09 PM

I feel exactly the same way. I have been married for 8 years and have 2kids. I have given everything to my family and husband (quit my successful career and I'm now a stay at home mom) and feel as though he doesn't care at all. He doesn't seem interested in me at all, and seems annoyed at whatever I say (unless we are talking about him.) I don't dislike him, the kids are happy, we all get along fine, but there is no sex, no touching, no dates, hardly any talking except small talk. i go out with my friends almost every weekend to get out and have fun. I am set to live like this forever because divorce is too hard and would kill the kids as they are so close with both of us. I feel as though I'm so young (31) to be in a loveless marriage. But I feel stuck. I always beleived marriage is forever, no matter what. I also feel that once I had kids they come first, not me. I couldn't split up their family because I'm not "in love". Anyway, is anyone ever still in love after a while?

Mary

Liz

17th March 2004, 05:13 PM

I don't think that the time is necessarily right to tell your wife how you feel, because I'm not sure that you understand what is going on yet.

If marriage is just based on "feeling" loving then it's not going to last. It has to be based on much more, commitment, companionship, deciding to act lovingly (which you are doing and is a good portion of what love is all about!).

Might I suggest that you have a look at Kate's article on love (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/relbasictopic/loveis/) and also consider taking your wife on a marriage enrichment weekend (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/servprov/). It may be that what your marriage really needs is a bit of a boost.

Just as relationships can go stale, so they can also be restored. You say you don't want it to get any better, why not. Are you unwilling to face the effort or the change that might be needed? I don't think you should tell your wfie, but I actually think she deserves more than your cop out of pretending. Why can't you do the real thing and love her (action not feeling!)?

Liz

Unregistered

17th March 2004, 05:14 PM

one more thing: you say everyone is happy except you. Well, I'm the wife on the other side and I can guarantee your wife is not happy either. You should talk. Not be brutally honest, but gently honest.

Mary

Unregistered

17th March 2004, 07:38 PM

I haven't said anything yet, and I don't intend to for a while - not until I'm sure that's the right thing to do.

I'm here because I don't think this is my wife's problem. It feels like mine. She hasn't changed, I have.

I've raised the issue a couple of times in the past and all this results in is lots of tears because she's scared I'm going to leave her. To be honest, if I did it would either make her or break her - and I'm not callous enough to risk the latter.

I do love my wife as a person, but not as a woman. I'm going to take Liz's advice and look at Kate's article, then scout around for more information before making any decision.

In the meantime you can all rest assured that I'm being nice, considerate, friendly and everything else I'm meant to be.

Call me Bill

Unregistered

19th March 2004, 06:35 PM

i spent many years going through the motions, befor i decided what i wanted to do. i even posted on this site.

then i met someone i wanted to be with, i couldnt because i was still married so it had to end. but it made my mind up as to what i had to do. it was very difficult and still is, but i do not regret ending it. if i have any chance of happiness, i had to end my unhappy relationship first and deal with all the issues that go with it. only you know how unhappy you are !

if there is no feeling or love, then as far as i am concerned there is only one choice. but you must be very sure as i would not recommend it to anyone who isnt sure!

good luck
gary

Unregistered

26th March 2004, 04:09 PM

I'm in a 12 year sexless marriage with a woman I don't love. But I grew up without a father and it messed me up pretty bad. I love my son more than anything and am willing to give up my own happiness so that he can be brought up in a normal secure environment. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in this predicament. It's nice to see that I'm not.

Unregistered

30th March 2004, 04:30 AM

My husband just left me a couple days ago, and right now, I'd say I wish he would have went on pretending so I could be happy--but to be rational, I don't want him to live his whole life being unhappy, and I'm sure your wife would feel the same way. Of course, she's probably going to have a really hard time dealing with it at first--her whole world will turn upside down and she may fall into a depression--but you're really hurting her more by staying with her. As hard as it will be, you both need to lead happy lives, and she can't possibly be happy with someone who is no longer in love with her. But just be prepared--you will be looked at as the bad guy--it'll probably be the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. Good luck in whatever you choose.
~Melissa

yankeeatheart

23rd April 2004, 06:26 AM

"Anyway, is anyone ever still in love after a while?"

Yeah. If you're with the right person then you're still in love "after awhile."
I've been with my husband for 8 years and we have yet to get stale and boring I still look forward to seeing him at the end of the day.
I was in the position too of being in a dead marriage once. It was my first hubby. My best friend. He was the only man I ever had been with. Highschool sweethearts,etc. But something was missing. I guess I started loving him more like a brother. We were married for 4 years, together for 3 before that. I could not picture my life without him, he was all I had ever known - my point being, I didn't KNOW any difference, I thought that was just the way marriage was - that "after awhile" things just go stale.
Anyways, loving your hubby like a brother makes it kinda hard on the ole sex life (made my skin crawl), and he eventually found someone new and carried on with her for a couple of months until I found out about it. BROKE my heart. Oh, how I cried. But at the same time, I was kind of RELIEVED. Because now I had an "out."
I divorced him. We had a 6 mth old baby. These were not easy decisions. His relationship eventually petered out and he wanted me back, but it was too late by then.
Because I soon met my future hubby (exactly one month after my ex left me). After seeing him that first night, there was no going back. We were stuck like glue to each other everyday since.
I realized what true love was and realized that it was something that I never had with my first hubby. Yeah, we were content. We were comfortable. We liked each other. We got along well. But chemistry??? that died about 2 years into the relationship, never to return.
I am so glad for the choices I made. I came thisclose to staying with my ex-husband. Just because we had a little baby and I thought we needed to keep our family intact and because we got along good enough.
Well, good enough is not good enough. There is so much more out there, if you just give yourself the chance for happiness and love.
Leaving is not an easy choice, but in the long run, everyone is much happier. If both partners are not happy with the marriage, well, you just don't have a marriage.

cldbloom

23rd April 2004, 06:41 AM

Love is a choice- Begin to look within and examine why you have chosen to focus on the negatives and not the positives.

Honesty is ALWAYS the right thing, but ONLY after you have fully examined your internal motivations. Are you afraid of or don't know how to love unconditionally and experience joy in your relationship? If you have been together long enough to have kids, there must have been something there- What was it and can you get back to the good stuff? Think about what attracted you in the first place- not the physical- we all get older- but the REAL stuff.

And if you think staying in a "loveless marriage" for the kids is right, I think you are wrong- It would be better to be in a respectful and caring divorced situation. If you stay without committing to make things better, negativity, bitterness and anger will begin to follow you and when you finally do leave, a positive co-parenting situation will not be possible!!! You're children are little emotional barometers and you can't hide from them- their little eyes see and learn from what we do, not what we say.

Charlotte

cricket8

30th April 2004, 09:49 AM

I'm sad to hear of so many unhappy people. I wish I were the only one. What a liar! Misery loves company!
I'm not on here to obtain a cyber date or any of that crap. Yes, I seem to be doing the same as so many others....going thru the motions. Don't get me wrong...I wish my marriage were nurturing and loving and blah blah blah....but ...it really doesn't matter what it is. Coping, that's the only way I can view it at this time...any tips on how to cope without adultery or any of that nonsense?

JustMe

Hopefull????

24th May 2004, 04:23 PM

Hello Bill,

I was surprised to see someone with similar feelings as I.

I am 37 and am in a very simialr situation, I currently told my husbanc how i felt and he would like to try to see if we can find what I have lost, I love him he's a really good person with a big heart but, i love him like a really good friend.

I have no children of my own but, there are children involved, and they and a few other issues are the main reason I stay and said I would try although I don't believe it will change I have felt this way for a while.

I am nery confused now more so than before I said anything. If you can understand that ??

I just wanted to let you know you not alone. I was glad to see I wasn't.

Hopefull????

akafakealiasid

31st May 2004, 06:14 AM

just adding my two cents worth, though it's really not much different than what's been added before

but i'm in a similiar situation. i care for my wife as a person and as the mother of my lovely daughter, but i don't love her as a husband or lover anymore. there's just too many traits i don't like and don't want to deal with.

i don't really blame her so much. we were both stupid idiots for marrying someone we only knew for four months.

but now we got a daughter, and i want to give her the best environment i capable of. as a counselor - our third - told us, growing up in a home full of tension and strife will cause her to have a lot of issues to deal with, but divorce from most studies seem to show that it would make matters worse.

so i stay, and say i want to so my wife will stay. i know she'll be hurt when she finds out i didn't want to, but i will do what i have to for my daughter.

Claire

31st May 2004, 09:50 AM

My thread:- My husband left me after 15 years and 3 children

Just a point from the other side of the fence....my husband left me 9 weeks ago saying pretty much what's been said here he also seemed to be having a breakdown brought on by years of stress. He told me last week that he hated me before he left, all the normal habits I'd had for years annoyed him and he resented everything about me. So to my point, if you do leave your respective partners please do so kindly and by that I don't mean in dribs and drabs please don't give them any cause to think that you just need some time to sort your head out or that you're not really sure of what you want. I don't know if my husband is kidding himself he's being kind to me or not, maybe he is going through a crisis or maybe he just dosn't have the nerve to dump me properly but whatever I can't move on. My life is in limbo until I finally give up hope of him coming home and the hope has come from him not from anyone else....but it means I can't start to draw a line under our lives together. His mum said yesterday she almost wishes there was another woman which would at least give us all a good reason for him leaving not this wishy washy wasteland I am living in at the moment. I have persuaded him to go to marriage guidance but he won't go with me, we are seeing different people so it dosn't look good, and I'm pretty sure he only agreed to it to shut me up, he seems to be happy with his choice, but he stills says things like "I worry in 6 months or a year I'll realise I've made a huge mistake"....there he is with the false hope again, I know I have to move on....but I can't.

dumped wife

1st June 2004, 08:24 AM

My husband felt that way about me or so he told me.We been married for more than 4 years.Unfortunately,his old girlfriend entered the picture.He left me.I beg him to stay as our youngest is not even a year old.We tried for a month.I did my best but he remained cold all throughout.Until one day he just walked away.It hurts.We have problems but nothing that could not be solved thru adjustment.He told me he no longer love me,just like that.Now I'm still hurting but I know one day I'll come through.It's just that I find it so cruel,selfish and heartless.Marriage is a commitment.He did not even give it another fair shot.At least, I find it heartening that there are still men you put their family's happiness above their own.

Claire

1st June 2004, 09:34 AM

There is no other woman here, I wish there was...at least it'd be a reason. I don't mind the fact that he left, but it's like you say he left without trying. If we'd tried everything to sort out the problems but failed then I'd rather he'd leave so that we could both get on with our lives....but the first I knew of any problems was when he told me everything was wrong with his life and he left. Now I am confused, angry and very very hurt. I am trying with all my heart to put things right but it's like banging my head against a brick wall. I have 3 children by him and I feel I at least owe it to them to try everything in my power to put their family back together, (as much as anything I don't want to take more blame when their teenage years go belly up). I owe them to try, but I don't owe them a life of misery. That wouldn't teach them how good strong marriages work, I have no idea because my dad died when I was young and my husband has no idea because his dad walked out on him when he was 3....I think maybe we were doomed to fail and I don't want that for my girls so if I can't put it right then somehow I have to move on and at least be a strong independant person for them who maybe some day will find a man who will deal with what's in his head before it bursts wide open.

Sad

3rd July 2004, 09:10 PM

It's a shame that so many people are in unhappy marriages - myself included. Why is it so difficult for people to communicate with one another? I have tried with my spouse, but he is not interested in going to couseling, etc -- says he shouldn't have to, it's not his problem, I am the one with the problem, yada yada.

He was married before and his wife let him for another man. You would think that the 2nd time he got married, he would really want to make it work!

My husband refuses to tell me he loves me, show me any affection, etc -- states that he "did his duty" by marrying me. He has said some hurtful things to me over the years of which he denies ever saying.

So I stay for the sake of the children. I don't want to screw them up, but I wonder if I am by staying in this marriage?

I keep wondering if by staying in an unhappy marriage, am I teaching my daughters that it is okay to be treated as a second class citizen? Am I teaching my sons that it is okay to disrespect women as I feel my husband is doing to me? Am I teaching them all that you shouldn't be honest and communicate with one another or that there is no true happiness? I am afraid that the pattern will be continued when they become adults. If that happens, then I have truly failed as a parent.

I have tried counseling on my own since my husband refuses to do so. I feel that by staying in a marriage that clearly is not working, only puts me deeper into depression and I am no good for me or my kids. Taking medication will definitely not change anything since it is one half of the marriage does not think they are doing anything wrong or has a problem.

So to the original poster, why haven't you been able to communicate to your spouse? Why is it so hard to talk to her? You don't have to be brutally honest -- think about how you want to discuss your feelings with her. You do not have to respond here on the board -- just to yourself. None of us are perfect and I think that sometimes we forget about that (I know I am guilty of this too).

I still struggle with what I am going to do about my own situation, but I hope that those who want to keep their marriages alive in a loving relationship much success and those that feel they cannot continue in their marriage to find the happiness they deserve.

Angel

4th July 2004, 11:44 AM

Claire - have jut read your posting. Hope you are ok. Have been thinking about you. Spooky - I could have written your posting - all that you wrote, my husband has said to me too.

I too wish there was another person (as an aside I know he is going on a one week course next week and I am now paranoid he is going to sleep with someone else - it has been 4 months!) so that I could walk away but there is still that niggling feeling that he is going through a MLC/depression so how can I walk away?

Have you read Divorce Remedy? There is a chapter on MLC and about the 'limbo' feeling - there is some good advice - basically it is about time and space - if deep down you want him, fight for him and remain strong for you and your kids - either way you will be a stronger person in yourself.

Maybe you need not be in contact with him for a while (I know you have justcome off of hols) but could someone else be at the house when he comes and sees the kids? Maybe not email him for a while. Get him start to realise that you will not always be there.

Also in your posting you mentioned that his dad left when he was 3. Has he ever had conscelling for coming to terms with that? The reason for my question is that my husbands mother left when he was 3 and I have been doing lots of reading up on depression/MLC and a fundamental factor in future mental health status is the lose of a parent before the age of 5. If he has not fully 'grieved' and released his anger it could be that this is a factor in his present state of mind. If he hasn't sought counscelling (not relationship councelling) I think this would be benefical for him. It wont bring answers for you but it will help him - and may help him along the path - whether that is the path that brings you back together or on separate journeys time will tell. :0

sp883hdsporty

4th July 2004, 02:27 PM

Bill,
My husband and I are having similar problems. We talked recently and our solution is to try a trial separation for 30 days. See I have lost the physical attractiveness toward him. I avoid going to bed with him by staying up all night so that I don't have to have sex with him. There is so so much more to tell you about my situation but I hope our trial separation will help me fall back in love with him.
e-mail me at sp883hdsporty@sbcglobal.net maybe we can help eachother.
good luck just don't waste your life if you are not happy.

Patti

smackie9

11th July 2004, 03:37 AM

Buck up bud! You are not being fair to anyone here. Living a lie is way worse that being honest.

usamom45

23rd July 2004, 02:56 AM

I am amazed at so many people who are having problems with their marriage. My husband (age 38) just graduated from college. I supported him and our 5 children for the past 5 and a half years. Still no job. still no financial help. He cannot understand why I am so upset. He says he looks and puts out resumes but no replys. Out of 18 years, he's work about 3 years. He stayed home with our children for a few of those because my income was higher than his and it made more sense for him to be a full time househusband. He makes me feel that I am asking for to much. I just want a partner and not someone else to take care of and be responsible for. I want someone to help me with the bills we have created that I pay. I just resent him. Any type of relationship right now is out of the question for us. We tolerate each other and try to avoid talking. It only leads to arguements. Our kids (age 12 to 20) want us together. I am trying so hard to hang in here and maybe with the financial burden off, we can build some sort of relationship back. I am starting to feel that I ask for to much. Am I?

Kate

23rd July 2004, 10:35 AM

Hi there,

It's interesting how your family situation is the reverse of the usual one of husband going out to work and supporting house wife. I know that some men feel the way you do that they would like to have some of the burden of financial responsibility off their shoulders. The reason I say all this is that many women lose confidence after being at home and wonder if they are employable. I wonder if your husband struggles with this too - he's not known what it is to work for long periods of time. Also I wonder who prospective employers view a man who hasn't worked much i t he last 18 years.

I’m not belittling how hard it is for you, but I wonder what your husband is struggling with. He may be downright lazy, but he may instead be struggling with how to find the confidence and motivation to get a job. How would you like to be treated if you were "in his shoes"? What would help you? Don't push him into a corner and keep on nagging him - try and find a new approach so you can tackle the future together.

Kate

"Daisy"

13th August 2004, 10:38 AM

Okay, I am kind of in the same boat, but-- and please don't kill me for complaining about this-- I am married to a wonderful man. The problem is that I just don't love him the way I think I should. He knows this, and we've talked about it. We've been married for 11 years, have three beautiful children whom we love very much, and he does love me very much. He is a doctor (with a terrible, unpredictable schedule), and the money is nice, but sometimes I wonder if I would have already left if we didn't have that kind of money. We do have a fairly volatile relationship, although we try to be peaceable around the kids. "Volatile" meaning that he is the "oldest" and I'm an "only" so we butt heads and rarely see eye to eye. I don't respect him as a man. He's not masculine, and I don't feel that warm, protected feeling I've had with old loves in the past. I'm still not sure why we married. It sounds odd, but we are deeply religious, and I swear it was an "arranged" marriage. We felt love for each other, and it was one of those things that just made sense. But having been "in love" before... well, I just miss-- desperately miss-- that feeling, that incredible feeling that wells up in you when you think of the one you're in love with. I end up dwelling on the past or daydreaming of things magically working out, but I feel like I"m in a no-win situation. Mostly I don't want to destroy our family. I know he would be honorable with regards to supporting us and staying close to the children, but my kids (all kids, really) are so sensitive, and I am scared to be alone. I want the chance to find love, but I'm such a chicken-**** that I want to do it from the safety of my marriage before I end it, isn't that awful? I actually almost had an affair last year with an old friend who had become much closer than we should have allowed-- I am morally opposed to having an affair, but somehow found myself pulled in by that "feeling" I had been missing for so long. I think I actually allowed myself to fall in love with him (the old friend), and breaking it off and confessing to my husband was horrible. I still think about him from time to time, and I know that doesn't help anything. I feel like a spoiled brat for being so unhappy when I am so blessed in so many ways. We've done all the "regular" stuff-- counseling, reading great marriage books, talking and talking and talking, dating, spending time alone, we do have a pretty good sex life, although it's very much emotionally detached. Everything I read says go back to what initially attracted you to each other, and we don't know! We both have been more "in love" with someone else than we ever were with each other. I know there is more to marriage than this. I think sometimes we fight just so we can feel SOMETHING. Because mostly I feel nothing. We don't even have anything in common that we can do together, and believe me, we've tried to find some. We both love our kids, though, and we both don't want our marriage to fail-- we believe it's something that we've covenanted to for forever. But after several years of off and on bouts of depression I developed a whopping case of it almost three years ago and it still hasn't let up. Thankfully I am on great meds, but I fall right back when I try to go off. And what always comes to the surface (how the depression manifests itself) is how unhappy I am being married to him, and how much I long for true and lasting love. I don't know if I'm fooling myself to think that I could ever find that with someone else, or if all marriages eventually sink to a deep, cold emotional abyss. Sometimes I almost wish I had a concrete reason to leave, like abuse or something, but I know that's not ideal either! Mostly I just feel despair, because I know have "choices" but that ultimately this is the one I have to make-- to stay married. I've done my best to "bloom where I'm planted", I have good friends, I'm active at church and will be going back to school this fall, I have a good hobby-- in other words, it's not just that I'm bored-- at least not in general, but maybe with him. I find ways to keep myself busy, but that doesn't help anything. Any thoughts on this, anyone? My best friend gives me frequent reality checks, but she's never been married and is terrified of that commitment, so it's not quite the same perspective as y'all. Please, I feel like the ball is all in my court, and I feel so unhappy staying, but would feel so selfish and also too scared to try to make it on my own. Even the thought of alimony doesn't help, because things are just now really starting to be comfortable financially. I feel so shallow saying that! But it's true. Please help!
"Daisy"

Kate

13th August 2004, 11:06 AM

Dear Daisy,

You have all the ingredients for a happy marriage and access to the grace to make it happen. What's the problem then. I wonder if you are looking for some perfection or happiness instead of chasing contentment and understanding of each other.

Passionate in love feelings don't last. I don't think any of us could live on that permanent high - we'd wear ourselves out.

I think love is about more than feelings, it's about the daily decision to act lovingly and caringly. I think you are loving each other by your commitment to persevering. I do believe that you can find joy in a marriage - the joy of knowing someone is 100% committed to you, the joy of knowing you are accepted for who you are even the bits about yourself that you don't like, there's the joy of having a common purpose in life of your two stories intertwined.

At the risk of throwing lots of other books at you, I would recommend Larry Crabb's, Marriage Builder (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/books/marriagebuild/) to you. It helps us to understand our needs and emotions and how to meet them in a healthy godly way. I've also personally found marriage enrichment weekends a blessing. I guess from your language use that you are from the USA, so you might look here (http://www.episcopalme.com/). These weekends aren't counselling - they offer the chance to discover for yourselves, within a safe and loving environment, what will make your marriage buzz and how to keep it growing.

Don't give up - I really believe that you can find what will really satisfy you within your marriage.

Kate
:)

Lorrie

24th September 2004, 07:30 PM

To everyone who submitted something in this site:

I thought I was the only one going through this also. But my situation is slightly diffrent. We have no kids, and my husband has told me why he will not touch me. He said because I am fat he has no desire to touch me. That hurts but my big stomach is a medical problem as well as a fat problem. I stay because I have no where to go. No friends or family to help me and so everyday I live with a man who dosn't want me.

I have a job now and am trying to save enough but I pay for things my husband says is fair. I can not save very much to move and I feel that he is being crule about it because he knows I have no one but him he uses it to keep me a slave.

I work at work and then I come here and work and pay more than my share of bills. Now I would not let him touch me if I were a pretty woman.

I work and pray that some day soon I will be away from such a man. The way I feel now I never want one in my life again. I have experienced nothing but mean things from a man so I want to be away from them for a long time.

Concerned reader

24th September 2004, 08:02 PM

Coming from a different culture, I'm a little at sea to find so many people are prepared to make public promises of love but ask for absolution when they find those promises difficult or inconvenient. Don't we say things like 'love, honour and cherish' rather than 'Oops, I did it again'.

Presumably we would all prefer for promises to be kept to us (I do, anyway) and so surely it is only fair dos that we have at least the very best shot at keeping ours?

Besides, a person who carelessly breaks a promise is damaging themselves, they become a little devalued and we can take less notice of what they say in future. Nobody really says this to your face but behind your back people shrug and say 'well, old thingy, you can't go much by what she says'. That is why, despite insisting that private and public life are different, politicians who are caught with their trousers down are laughed at and are never taken quite seriously again.

Of course, if you are in love, then things are a whole lot easier, but if you want a gold star for behaving well, then the people who carry on regardless get my ribbon for having what used to be called 'gumption' or 'stickability' or 'guts'.

Sure, running takes some nerve, but nothing like as much as standing your ground.

In my cultural background, love is what you hope to get to after persevering for years, exactly like learning to play an instrument. It doesn't shrug off its promises just because it is a bit bored, or reject the other because they fail to put up a firework show on demand, or throw a wobbly because the other has dared to get older, balder, fatter, or is just plain tired.

Cheating is never pretty, although it thinks it is. It is just very taken with its own reflection and chitters at anyone who flatters it.

In my world, love dares imperfection but always tries to be better by observing the other's smile, not its own inane grin.

I think love wears a nicer face in my universe

Faithful

27th September 2004, 10:32 AM

Hi to everyone who has posted,
I am in a similar situation as many of you.. however I am at the receiving end. My husband has "stopped having feelings for me". Yes it has been hard to hear it, but at least he has been honest. I so appreciate that, however hurtful this information was to me. At first I was scared and confused, of course I cried and am still hurt. However I am blessed in that he wants to work it out, that he is not cruel. We have gone on a Retrouvaille weekend... Just a week ago.(I'm sorry if I've done wrong in mentioning this program. Who knows, it might help other couples. It's open to all faiths, and BTW my husband does not subscribe to any faith).
I learned so much during that weekend... a lot has been mentioned in this and other posts:
-Love is a Decision. It takes hard work...

Like concerned reader wrote:
"... love is what you hope to get to after persevering for years, exactly like learning to play an instrument. It doesn't shrug off its promises just because it is a bit bored, or reject the other because they fail to put up a firework show on demand, or throw a wobbly because the other has dared to get older, balder, fatter, or is just plain tired."

TV, books, fairytales in most of our western cultures, give us the wrong impression of what love is....just a feeling.
FEelings change often and are not good or bad. Why base a huge commitment such is marriage on a feeling?

-Allllll marriages go thru 4 stages: romance, disillusionment, misery and re-awakening. So even if you remarried, you'd go thru all stages again... so why not fix this one?
-I never knew that there was such a thing as a Single Married person...
-The importance of dialogue=expressing one's feelings, safely, while the other listens without judging/criticizing, ONLY understanding how the other feels.

The above, were lessons learned by presenting couples, who have successfully passed thru misery and are in the re-awakening phase.... so there is hope.

(As you read what's next , please please do not think I am trying to convert you into any belief. I am sharing with you because this is what has helped me and could /might help you too...)
What I have learned on my own is that when one goes thru painful experiences such as this one, one has a choice: to become bitter or to have FAITH... and by this I mean faith in G_d.
Believe me , I have been far from being a religious person most of my life. But these past few weeks it is Him who has given me strength. It is Him to whom I give my problem for the day and who makes my load lighter. It is in His hands what the future will hold, and It is Him , the only one who loves me unconditionally, and whom therefore knows what is best in my future, whether it be divorce or re awakening...I do pray for the latter, but let His will be done.

Of course I am doing what I can do for myself too. But when I feel afraid or crushed, I give him my life=what the future holds... and I get peace and strenght... All I can do is Trust him... and believe that miracles can happen, and that we will be granted love in our marriage again.

Anyway, I have posted because as I read, oh so many stories, which seem so hopeless... while my story is not necessarily fixed, it's far from that... It is my wish that you who read this will be inspired and feel some hope in your life too.

Lorrie, I can feel your anguish, I am soooo sad that you are in the situation you are. I love you. I know you are beautiful (inside and out), unique, and unbelievably strong. I believe that you deserve only the best that life can give you. I will pray for you that your situation will be better. You do have friends that will help you... just believe in that, and the friends will appear.

Love to you all
Faithful in CA

Spring271076

30th September 2004, 10:04 AM

I am really not sure of anything any more, but I too feel stuck in a loveless marriage. I have been married now for nearly 6 years, together 10 and I too feel as if I love my husband now as a friend or brother rather than a man. We don't have any kids so I am grateful I haven't got that worry and heartache too. It has been, well I can't remember when we last had any sexual intimicy. This problem has been escalating for the last 5 years and recently (last 1 or 2 months) I have been feeling more withdrawn, tearful, and fearful of what decision I have ahead of me.
I have tried speaking to my husband in the past but he never seems to listen and I end up just saying the same thing again and again. It has now got to the point where I feel like trying is getting me nowhere. I can't really speak to any of my friends as they always see us as the perfect couple. I am great at putting on a smile and always the first to say "yes everything is fine" when really they are not.
I just don't know what to do, at 27 years, almost 28, I feel there must be more to life and I yearn to feel alive and like a woman again.

Kate

30th September 2004, 02:15 PM

Hi Spring,

You seem to be struggling with the lack of physical intimacy. Why not have a look at the articles on the site here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/diffsex/).

Another thought is why not try a marriage enrichment weekend (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/servprov/). As your communication builds you may find it possible to talk about this painful area.

Kate
:)

Faithful

3rd October 2004, 01:10 PM

Hi Spring,
Kate has good advice... especially about the marriage encounter.. Definetly important to be able to learn to listen to each other . My husband and I went to one and we are learning to better communicate.. by first learning to just listen without judging/criticizing/ giving advice / etc etc.. and to express our feelings without the need to justify/feel bad about them/ etc etc.
This is the first step to rebuilding our marriage.
The only thing I'd beware of is the first link in the sex articles link
How much sex is typical... a survey... when I did that survey I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... I decided to laugh it just is so unreal... In what fairy tale?
As I looked at the articles I really didn't find one that would apply... personally to my situation.
I think I just have to have patience and lots and lots of faith.... If passionate love was once there I am certain that it can return. Or is maybe it can be replaced by something better?
I've been listening to tapes which speak of 3 kinds of love: EROS romantic/passionate , FILIAL the kind of love you feel for those of your own blood: mom, dad, kids, and AGAPE: which is the kind that you choose to do... this one is the hardest but seems the most fulfilling.
Anyone out there who has been in a loveless /sexless marriage , where both have been somewhat returned thru AGAPE love?

Faithful

Spring271076

12th October 2004, 06:18 PM

Dear Faithful and Kate

Many thanks for your words and advise.
The only problem is matters have got worse. I am really starting to worry if I love my husband at all. In some ways I do, but as a female to a male there is nothing, and I mean not even a little sparkle left. I have tried and will keep on trying as these things tend not to heal over night, but I am in turmoil. I can't stand him touching me, don't want him near me, and I am feeling myself withdraw away further and further.
I don't believe we should stay with partners if we no longer love them, it seems wrong and hishonest to do so. But I have no idea what to do. I have some ideas but they take courage or cowardness, whichever way you wish to look at matters. I feel like I just want time alone to breathe and sort my life out so I can make a decision on where my future lies.
I still can't really talk to anyone. They (our friends) are all "you are both so happy", if only I could show them how empty I am feeling on the inside. It feels as if a small devise has blown awan my insides and I am just a shell walking around. Kinda stressful, but I am keeping a grip on reality, if somewhat loosely!
Anyway I just needed to release some emotions. Thanks for listening.

Spring

Alan

13th October 2004, 02:58 PM

Spring

I hope you don't mind me answering your posting and at the same time asking you a few questions too.

My present situation is well documented on this board ; my wife recently left our home, citing reasons similar to what you have posted, mainly the falling out of love angle.

You say you feel empty. Can you try and explain what this means? What is missing that your H cannot provide?

And as for sparkle, I struggle with this one too.

I understand fully the need for people to grow in a relationship and I realise things change, but I struggle with the concept of just walking away.

It's not dishonest to work things out. I've fallen in and out of love, as I previously understood it, many times with my wife, but I believe in trying to understand the whys and wherefores.

I'm probably way our of line here, but the grass is not any greener over on the other side.

These decisions are life changing, whatever the outcome. Many lives are destroyed by knee-jerk reactions.

Idunnothisgoodenough

13th October 2004, 06:45 PM

I love my husband very much, but I feel that he doesn't love me. He says he does, but I really don't think so. I wish he'd be honest with his feelings so we could both move on. I'm sure there are many women out there who would prefer to be lied to, but in all honesty I'd rather know. If you're that unhappy, odds are if she loves you, she already knows and it's driving her crazy. That's what has been happening with me. My husband drinks a liter of vodka in a night, flirts with women online, even took my 18 month son with him to meet a woman; who luckily for me was someone I knew trying to catch him so I could see what he was about. (I had nothing to do with the set up) I feel bad that she set him up, but being that I am 8 months pregnant it's probably better that I know than not. Although, I do realize there is a difference between loving someone and being in love with the feelings of love all around you. My wedding vows included that I would love him even if the feelings of love faded away.

A great quote I read...
Immature love says: I love you because I need you.
Mature love says: I need you because I love you.
You cannot keep the charade going forever, she will sense your unhappiness. It will cause her more pain later than now most likely. Maybe go to sessions with a therapist together. Maybe you can still have a great relationship, just not a romantic one. Believe it or not, your kids want you to be happy too. IT may take a while to adjust, but they will be happier if both of the parents are happy and get along rather than stay together and be miserable for "the sake of the kids". and people wonder why kids feel guilty when the parents split.

Kate

13th October 2004, 07:03 PM

Hi,

Just wanted to mention that Retrouvaile as mentioned by Faithful is available in Ireland here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/services/retro/). For other parts of the world look here (http://www.retrouvaille.org/).

I also wanted to comment on what Idunnothisgoodenough said about children. Research shows that divorce is not best for children. It's not just about happiness -children from broken marriages often struggle to make good adult relationships when they grown up and are statistically more likely to have health, educational and behavioural problems. There is some evidence that for marriages where conflict is great that it may be better to split up. There is an alternative and that is to try and move on from the misery in the marriage and find a way to sort out the differences. I realise that where there is addiction or violence that may not be possible.

Take care of yourslef, Idunnothisgoodenough. I hope the last few weeks of your pregnancy go well for you.

Kate
:)

Spring271076

14th October 2004, 09:54 AM

Alan

I am not really too sure how to describe how I feel. But I feel like an empty shell. I think that is the closest I can describe it. My head feels as if it is somewhere else most of the time. And I don't know how to react to this. My life feels as if someone else is living it. Perhaps it is a early mid life crisis as I seem to be evaluating everything about my life. I just want to feel like me again. I don't think anything could be said to me at the moment for anything to change, but I want to try. I just feel like time is running out trying to get back on track. I am not sure my husband can do anything to change how I feel as I know I need to change, not to be changed.

I don't think the grass is greener on the otherside, but I feel there is more to life than what I feel at present. Yes, relationships change and move on with time, but surely they should move on to better things. Walking away is not easy, but if you need to find yourself again you need time out to find what you are seeking. Answers won't come quickly or easily and I agree knee jerk reactions are not sensible and do cause pain, sometime needlessly. Believe me there is not a waking moment when I am not thinking about what to do, and what would be the best thing for everyone.

I hope this has helped explain things, but probably not, as I don't even know how to explain things fully yet. If you have any other questions please ask and I'll try my best.

Alan

14th October 2004, 11:14 AM

Spring

I empathise with the empty shell feeling. This only hit me when my wife decided to leave.

I have to confess, I don't really understand the line "My life feels as if someone else is living it". I've had that thrown at me, with the underlying accusation of me being a control freak.

Perhaps though, your husband can change to allow you to grow and overcome what your feelings are telling you.

I'm also interested in your statement "but I feel there is more to life than what I feel at present."

I can't answer that fully, but again, like you, this was a statement, almost word for word, by my wife.

Let me be cold about this ; currently she stays at her mum and dads, has had only one night out (which she gladly and gleefully told me about), has no contact with her son on a daily basis and just generally mopes about (to quote her mum).

OK, in the scheme of things, the period of time that has elapsed has not been long, although I would argue that, every minute seems like an hour, but is this what she means?

I appreciate fully that time away from her problem, i.e. me will help decision making, but as you can see I'm really confused.

I've never, ever seen myself as a selfish person. But again I've been now told that my actions in this respect have led to my wife leaving. Perhaps she is right, after all is it not selfish of me to want her back when at this time she won't? Of course it is, however let me say out loud that the effect of her departure and the potential consequences have been dramatic.

I personally don't believe I will get her back. I will try of course and do what is required, but I would urge any potential WAW's to think very carefully about what will happen.

People can change ; I truly, truly believe that.

Rejectedman

14th October 2004, 11:45 PM

Alan, Spring,
Sounds familiar doesnt it. We are all in the same position. Alan and myself being left and Spring being a WAW, which is uncanny reading the same things being said to us.
I do not see the doubts which may be being felt by my wife, she puts on a strong focused front. All the better to push you away with. If the doubts really are there behind the front, then at least the mind is still active and not lost completely. Is that false hope ?
Why do people allow themselves to get so tied in knots and forget what they have in front of them, built up over the years, has real value and should be cherished and repaired.

R.man

Spring271076

15th October 2004, 10:15 AM

Dear Alan and R.Man

Again thank you for your emails. I took the time today to look at your past postings and my heart goes out to you. Believe me what I am feeling is truley terrible, but I know not as terrible as the pain any action I take may cause. I am going to stick this one out and will try my honest best to turn myself around. But I only ask what if I can't. Should I stay in a relationship that makes me desperately unhappy? Would you?

I still love my husband, but more as a friend rather than being in love with him. I can honestly say he is my right hand, hence why I am going to try my best not only for him, but for myself. If I could wish anything I would wish for repair to this situation.

I truely hope that I get better. Sounds like I have an illness and I suppose it kinda feels like that, a cold that just hangs around and can't be shifted.

Alan, is your wife trying to make you feel jealous/ get a reaction from you, by telling you about her nights out. Being bruttally honest she is either doing this becasue she wants a reaction from you (which could be a positive sign) or she is trying to tell you she has moved on in a very cruel fashion.

What ever I decide to do. Which I hope to learn to fall in love again. The decision will not be an easy one and one that I could regret for the rest of my life and will affect others for the rest of their lives.

Spring

P.S What does WAW mean?

Alan

15th October 2004, 01:26 PM

Alan, is your wife trying to make you feel jealous/ get a reaction from you, by telling you about her nights out. Being bruttally honest she is either doing this becasue she wants a reaction from you (which could be a positive sign) or she is trying to tell you she has moved on in a very cruel fashion.

P.S What does WAW mean?
My Walk Away Wife (WAW) is trying to tell me many things and possibly to get a reaction.

One of my apparent failings is that I didn't like her going out on her own with friends at the weekends. I perhaps handled this aspect incorrectly over the years by wearing my heart on my sleeve, but never did I attempt, nor even thought of, trying to stop her.

Yes, she knows I'm uncomfortable with this and my gut instinct is that by telling me, she is wanting a reaction. However, I'm trying to learn lessons therefore I won't react.

As for moving on, well I honestly think we are both a million miles from doing that.

Here's a situation for you guys to come back to me on.

Those who have been following my rantings in the last few weeks, and I thank God daily for having somewhere where people genuinely know how to empathise, will be aware that this weekend my son goes to stay with my wife at her mums. Mum and Dad are away on holiday, btw.

The plan, which I agreed to cheerily (with my stomach churning) was that after last night's school show, where my son had a primary role, she would take him to her mums and return him on Sunday. Where I live, schools are off today and my wife was looking after him anyway, so this made sense.

I sent her an e-mail at 4pm yesterday to make sure of the arrangements, where to meet etc - she didn't want to come to our home.

I get a reply almost immediately to say that she is 'not feeling well' and she 'won't be going to the show.'

Immediately I phoned her. I was calm and measured and asked her what was wrong.

Heavy cold coupled with period symptoms. She was tired - busy week? - and she was sure my son would not mind.

This show has been the centre of my son's life for 2 months, with rehearsing and everything that goes with it.

Given our family situation, it has given him and me a focus and it has been for him a real distraction, save for the odd wee waver.

I didn't want an argument and agreed to let him know, gently.

Compounding this, the first of the overnight stays, i.e. last night was cancelled, with instruction to drop him off this morning.

I dropped him off and I have to confess that my wife did indeed look out of sorts. Anyway, we had a quick chat and I got the distinct impression that she wanted to say something.

As we parted we kissed, lightly, and I swear she pressed into me. I didn't react and said goodbye and went to work. Taking the element of my son out of it, which is something I'm angry about, our meeting this morning has been freaking me out.

I'm really tempted to phone her, but I know this is the wrong thing to do.

My head is swimming with the mixed signals, but getting the wrong idea too soon could damage anything we've achieved this week. (It's my new policy not to beg and plead, and while I've still had to do the running on communicating I think this is having some effect).

As hard as it is, coupled with the up and coming lonlieness, I will wait and hop things are moving.

So, what am I to make of all of this? Am I getting excited over nothing? Could it be that her hormones are affecting her? (Sorry, that sounds sexist, but it does happen).

Oh aye, my washing machine is also knackered!!

Concerned reader

15th October 2004, 01:58 PM

Concentrate on the washing machine.

If you must phone her, ask her if she knows how to fix it or has a recommendend repair service. It would not be out of order to ask if you can go round and use the mother-in-laws washing machine just this once; presumably it is for the child's clothes as much as yours.

If your wife missed the performance because she was ill, then that is understandable and should be forgiven. If she missed it - as I suspect - because of being too embarrassed to show up there, then that is a good sign as it shows a capacity to review her own decisions.

Although your son was disappointed, he was also so caught up in the show and that will have protected him. By missing it, your wife misses out most of all.

You could smile sweetly and point this out, but a very good negotiator taught me that it is usually best to 'leave them a ladder to climb down'. In this case, a ladder to climb down would be finding out if there is a video of the performance and getting her a copy. Sometimes either the school or another parent can help.

You could offer to go to the chemists for tissues, cough mixture, what ever, if she is feeling too rough. You could also make it clear that if she is feeling too unwell this weekend, you could take care of your son.

Just do what you feel is right to show the concern and competence of a husband and father.

Spring271076

15th October 2004, 02:19 PM

Hi Alan

It sounds like you have had a confusing few days and event ones at that.
But lets start from the beginning. I really believe that all partners should have time out on their own. The reason, after being with someone for a period of time you tend to feel like each other rather than yourself. I think it gives you confidence to go out on your own with friends and just have some self time. It makes you realise that you are an individual and that you are you. However this is often hard as being with someone you often want to spend every living moment with them and not to share them with anyone else. When they are laughing you want to be next to them laughing as well rather than being told what happened and feeling a bit left out. Personally I rarely go out alone and am usually with my other half, but when I do I come home feeling all alive with plenty of stories to share, and I really enjoy telling the account of my night. Not in a harsh way, but because I want to share my experiences.
The play sounds fab. It is good to have other things to preoccupy your mind. especailly at the present point in time. I hope your son steals the show. I think you handled the whole situation brilliantly. It really doesn't pay to go off half ****ed. It can only aggrevate the situation.
Perhaps your wife does want to tell you something. But as you rightly said it could also be hormonal, there is nothing sexist in that, just how it is. I think you are right not to rush her, but if you never ask you can never get. If she wants to say something she will, perhaps encouragment from your side would be good, not immediately, but perhaps have a chat on Sunday when she drops your son off? I would suggest having a chat not on home territory, but perhaps in a coffee bar or somewhere where you are both on neutral territory.
I can completely understand your excitement and the worry you must be feeling at present. Life is really never easy is it! I agree that you should not rush things as that could have the opposite effect, but make every opportunity work for you. If the shoe was on the other foot, trust me she would be the same.
I read up on WAW and believe me it really hits home as sensible thinking. I could see myself being written about, or rather my feelings. A bit scary really.
All I can say is good luck, I know tonight will go well, and I hope the washing machine starts behaving again!
I hope I helped, if ever you need to talk just drop us a line, no one should ever feel alone.
Spring

Rejectedman

16th October 2004, 12:18 AM

Spring
You give it all you can, you may have been unhappy, but working at making it better is worthwhile. If your h was like me he will have missed all the signs but be willing to make good. Help each other. I would have jumped at the chance before it was too late, now I may never get the chance, so if others can make it work thank God.
R.man

Alan

16th October 2004, 08:55 PM

Well, bit a setback today.

Washing machine fixed, but marriage heading for the rocks.

It would appear that no matter what I do, my wife is determined to heap on the misery.

We had a phone conversation today which descended into chaos. She's further away than ever. I didn't even need to ask about her coming home, she brought it up immediately by saying "beore you beg, no I'm not coming home, I still don't like you."

The phone call got worse after that.

I have to say, in my heart of hearts, I was NOT going to ask about anything to do with her coming home. The phpne call was about my son, but deteriorated very quickly.

Again another lost weekend.

Patience is certainly a virtue ; something I confess I'm short of.

This is our 3rd week apart. It's killing me. Really is.

In those weeks that have passed I've recognised a few failings on my part ; I'm not perfect, and I've attempted to make good some of the wee things that would have annoyed my wife.

I've given up fully my hobby which I do confess was a time killer. Wife complained many a time about it. She finds out about one particular aspect of this and tells me today that "I now have nothing left, not even me, so why give up the football."

Like rejectedman, I feel totally humiliated and it does feel like I've been put out with the rubbish.

This constant line of "I don't even like you" really, really hurts. But you know, she may have a point.

Since all this started my 'friends' and family have virtually shunned me. Yes, I know about pals being uncomfortable about not knowing what to say but the feeling of overwhelming lonlieness is unbearable.

My feelings of pain are not enough reason for my darling wife to come home ; I realise this is a decision she must make and even if she does come back things will be very different, but how do you combat such negativity?

I bought the DB book today. The advice in theory sounds brilliant. But the one nagging point for me is how it all works with only one willing participant?

Thanks for listening folks, I know these postings are pathetic, but it does constitute a form of therapy.

Lid

27th October 2004, 06:48 PM

Ohh my God Bill! I feel so bad. I'm only 23 and have been married for about 1 year and a half and I'm on the other end. I'm that wife. God knows is hard. I love the guy with all my heart, but if it ends I will be hurt and happy that I didn't waist (many years) time in a relationship that wasn't worth it. When you want to be with someone, because you love them, then it's worth it, otherwise is not. Please Bill I know that you wife cries every time you sort of bring the subject out, but you have to be honest with her. Please keep in mind that she will be hurt and so be honest, but not brutal. You have to end it for the own good of everyone involved...
Good luck,
Lid

Spring271076

1st November 2004, 01:07 PM

Hi Alan

How has it been going recently? It is true that these little windows into our lives are like a form of therapy. I think it just helps to get things off our chests.

Well things are getting worse for me. I have been trying and trying but am slowly wondering what next to do. So Saturday morning I told my H that I felt that I did not love him in that way any more. So we talked and talked, we both cried, and I still feel lost in my life at present. It seems like although I have been telling him how I have been feeling, hinting at it, and all manner of other things he chose to ignore it and thought oh she'll get happy again soon. If you are a male or female, and ever think this in your life, don't, ignoring problems only mean they are more difficult to fix. I suppose it kinda angered me that he has been this blinkered, Did I really have to drop such a huge bombshell before he took me seriously? It makes me wonder! But as a lady told me last night, men have a habit of this, apparently! perhaps it is fear of facing up to things. Who knows.

But I am going to try, talk it through. We don't argue, which is a blessing. I feel like I want some time alone, but am not sure if this is the route to take. it only means we won't be talking about saving our marriage. But perhaps we both need time out to evaluate everything. God can someone please tell me what to doas I have no idea anymore!! Bit of a tall order I know.

Spring

Alan

1st November 2004, 01:30 PM

Spring

Hi. Good to hear from you again.

My trials and tribulations are well chronicled under Rejectedman's various threads. Life is not good right now, with no light emerging. But we soldier on.

As for your 'bomb' to your hubby, it will have been exactly that. I feel for you, but empathise more with your H.

I'm at a loss to understand the 'not happy' and 'out of love' statements.

And yes, sometimes it does take what you have done to make others aware.

In the past 6 weeks I've been getting the 'I'm not happy' line tagged to the 'don't love you' part. I have to say it's consistent therefore I believe it.

However, my wife, in that time, is not doing anything different than she would if at home. OK, a few more nights out and less time with me and our son, but essentially doing nothing.

Perhaps though this is the key. Time and space.

Sure, I want her back, but it is a preference not a need. I understand that now.

She is angry. Very angry. At what I'm not sure, but angry nevertheless. And I do believe she hates me for well, just being on the planet!

For you, you will need to define what makes you happy. If your H is not doing this, you have, in my view, an obligation to tell him what irritates you. What exactly are you missing out on by being married to him?

From experience, I would not encourage you guys to separate. Stay with it and work it out. I'm positive you can make it work. Nothing is impossible.

Spring271076

1st November 2004, 01:57 PM

Hi Alan

Believe me Saturday was horrendous. I think I cried for me telling him, and then cried even more for seeing what I did/ have done to him. I never ever want to hurt him, as he has never done anything wrong. It is just me, perhaps I was too young to get married, perhaps I have just changed and not brought him along on my journey. I believe the most awful thing is that we have both been so good for each other. We have decided to think about all the good times we've had, what had each of us love each other and concentrate on that for some time.

I just don't understand how I feel at present. Sounds rather odd, but it is true. perhaps it is the winter blues, perhaps it is worse. But I can put my hand on my heart and say that I will do my best for my H, even if it is not the best for me. I am good at that ignoring myself for the sake of others. perhaps that is how I got into this mess in the first place!

Sounds like you have had down time too recently. Have you asked your wife why she is angry. She can't be angry at you? It seems like you have done everything right to try and make coming back/ realising her emotions/ etc as gentle as possible. Perhaps she feels you should be angry with her for doing this and being so rational about it. I am sure you don't feel anywhere near rational, but how you display yourself to her, if you get my meaning.

So what am i missing out on? What do I feel I need? At present I wish I knew, if I did I'd tell my husband immediately and say there you go "Home Improvement's it's tool time" fix it quick. But nothing is as easy as that is it. I feel alone in my own home, even if my H is there, he wants different things to me, I don't feel loved, I don't feel needed or wanted, I don't feel attractive to him, I feel empty, sore. I want to feel like I am the centre of someone's universe. Sounds a bit fairytale, and a bit silly. But I don't feel important. I don't feel I have a role in our marriage, just that I am there as a bank and someone to have on his arm. I want to look into his eyes and see that passion, love, whatever it is that betrays our eyes when we look at another person and there is that spark, that recognition that there is chemistry, a bond. Even though I know this is not the case, I don't think me not being in his life would be as bad as he thinks it would be. Well not from the way we are now. I am sure, and I hope that would not be the case, but that is how separate I feel from him. That is how he has made me feel, unintentionally I hope. You are right i should tell him these things, I owe us that much, but how can I do that without sounding harsh, being cruel, hurting him?

I have never yet said I can't. So I will try. I think if we talk more, understand each other a bit more, it may just be the turning point. What should I do though if that turning point doesn't happen for me or him or both of us? Perhaps I expect too much, perhaps I am being selfish, I am really not sure, but for all the pain I will give it my best shot.

Spring

Alan

1st November 2004, 02:53 PM

Spring271076

1st November 2004, 03:14 PM

Thanks Alan, you don't know how much that means.

Spring

Kate

2nd November 2004, 06:14 PM

Hi Spring

Just read your post about not knowing what you wanted from your man, although you do actually say what you want from him in the end. I wonder if some of it is about how he shows love for you. There's an interesting concept from a book by John Chapman (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/books/fivelovelang/), called Love Languages (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/relbasictopic/cftcartoon/whatlove.html). He says these love languages can be descirbed as Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Acts of Service, Giving Gifts, and Physical Touch. If you and your husband tend to communicate with a different one then you'll completely misunderstand and signals of love you are sending out.

Perhpas your husband needs to know what signals love for you and then he can begin to build up that sense of being loved and valued that you long for.

Kate

Bill Too

7th November 2004, 03:30 AM

Bill the answer to your question is a definite NO!!!! Do NOT tell her anything! What she doesn't know won't hurt her. I never loved my wife. I married her for practical and financial reasons. After 15 years of a loveless, sexless marriage I finally cracked and admitted to her that I needed to try and find out what being in love was like before it was too late. Needless to say the roof caved in and I regret now what I did because I have lost her, my house, and a large chunk of my hard earned money. I should have learned to be content with what I had.

Don't think being honest will improve things... just forget it because it won't. Love doesn't last anyway. Many married people who were head over heels in love at one time can hardly stand the sight of each other after a few years of marriage. At least my wife and I were friends. Now that's gone too.

lost without him

15th November 2004, 12:37 AM

greetings,
i pray that someone hears me. i feel that i'm in a loveless marriage, i love my husband, we've been married for 16 years and have 3 children. my spouse has cheated on me numerous time, and i decided to stick things out because i love him. its now to the point that we hardly even communicate, he works all day, comes home and go straight to the bedroom. our sex life is 2 to 3 times a month (when he feels like he wants it) i want it everyday. i believe that he is seeing a co-worker, and it hurts me, i tell him often that if he doesn't want to be in this marriage, i will let him go, i don't want to hurt anymore. we still sleep in the same bed, only he hugs his side, and i'm on my side. please help a hurting soul. i can't talk to our pastor, because its a family church.

Concerned Reader

16th November 2004, 01:19 PM

Dear Lost

If it isn't possible to talk to your own pastor, would it be possible to find another religious advisor? You could really do with someone right there. I'm afraid I don't know how your church works, but in the past I have found them to be very understanding if you ask them to find someone of a similar background but separate from the church.

Most people will understand that sometimes you would prefer to talk to someone outside the known circle. Sometimes it is just easier to talk to someone you don't already know.

This situation does not seem very fair for anyone; I doubt that the co-worker knows that marital relations still exist between you. One wild guess I would make is that in maintaining this unsatisfactory state of marriage, your H creates an excuse to keep both halves of his life in precarious balance. By being cold can maintain the line that there is something wrong with the marriage so it's 'OK' in his mind to have an affair. At the same time, if he maintains the marriage by being coldly present and having infrequent congress, then he can put off the co-worker by saying 'I'm married and I don't want to hurt my wife'.

However, if you can find someone there to talk to face to face, you may be able better to sort out what really is going on, and I urge you to ask for help as any family church worth its name will want to help your family, not condemn it.

I send my very best wishes.

Bobcat

18th November 2004, 07:04 AM

It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved.

After thirty seven years my marriage is finished. No love, no sex, no intimacy, just attachment.

lost soul

18th November 2004, 01:39 PM

Hi there. Sitting here looking through the web for sites with information on marriage problems. Never thought that after all this time I would be doing this.

Anyway, I hope someone can help me understand this, it is really breaking me up so badly.

I am a male aged 38 married for 16 years but known my wife for over 20 years. All things came to a head the weekend before last.

Just under 2 years ago I felt my wife was not acting normally,especially with me and one night she was out with friends and her cousin. They came back in a 5.00am(very very out of character) she slept with one of our twins, both aged 7.

Things got worse for that month because she would not come near me, she slept in the same bed but there was no contact whatso ever.I confronted her one eveing because I was ill and she told me that she met someone. She assured me that nothing happened and that they spoke frequently and texted each other.

Eventually, she apologised and broke down for several days and we spent a few days with each other. I still had a niggle about the truth and i gave her so many opportunities.The day after that we decided to go to the local health centre for a dip in the pool. She came out with a towel round her and when she stepped into and out of the jacuzzi she turned in a way that I was not to look at something. Eventually i grabbed her and said what are you hiding. Again she said nothing. I grabbed and looked at her back, she had a blemish or burn the size of a 10p coin at the lower spine. When i asked she did it outside and her back hit against a wall. Once again, this was annoying me.

Then for the first time I started looking at phone bills by landline and mobile. I was horrified how many times she was calling and texting him. Being told it was only a friendly relationship made me even more suspicious and for 18 months I have been feeling that way. It was going away for a while there, but she started acting strangely once again with me about 3 months ago.

She met him on the Saturday after christmas. The amount of texting going on through new years eve and new years morning was unbelievable. I never saw this as she always went to the house back door to have a cigarrette.

Three months ago, we had an argument and her sister was up that weekend. I explained to her and her sister that I was hurting and still hurting and again I asked about the affair. Her sister who she is close to asked her with me and on her own. Her mum and dad asked her all the time as well. SHE ALWAYS told us the same thing, just texting.

Her cousin is now living abroad. My wifes sister was not happy with the answers and felt that there was more to it. She called her cousin abroad and demdanded answers. She was eventually told, there was a sexual affair. I was blown away. I was certianly suspiciuos but could not believe she had so many opportunities to face it with so many people but turned up to be lying to all including her very close family.

I then said to her that I now know what happened. She then admitted it and I asked for detail. She always said to me that I have always known. I can honestly say that I did not go out my way to find out but always kept an eye on it.

We fell out a week past on Saturday and since then I have walked out for that eveing and slept in the car overnight, punched drunk because she told me that she has never loved my for a long time. I keep asking for an explanation and how far back did it go. I got no response. She was very very distraught but she has never said sorry to me. She is so adamant that this is what she wants even now after telling me. I still have no explanation. Our kids are aged 7 and I feel so bad about this.

I have lead a life of work only, she brought the kids up full time for the first 5 years. It might have happened then.

She wants to split quickly and says that we should share the kids because they have so much love for both of us. The kids are unaware of this but we need to say something at some point.

I do not want to lose this as I love her very much but I dont think she believes me and thinks that she will never be forgiven and that I will always bring this up. She is so adamant that she can no longer continue.

Due to this, I feel that someting else is going on and I am being held back from what is happening. The first Monday after this happened my wife went for personal counselling and has been back twice now. Unfortunately I followed her last time which she knew about because i was right behind her. I jumped out grabbed the phone from her and asked who she was talking to?? She was shocked and later so was I because I have never done that before. It turned out she was calling her friend. Later I called her friend and apologised for my actions.

Throughout these 9 days I have called her friends,family work colleagues to get answers. I shocked a few people because they thought nothing was going on and others did not like being called. My wife has told me that I should not have involved all these people and her family, she is really angry at this. I have only done all of this due to my frustrations because my wife was not talking to me and opening up. I am really sorry I did this and look back.

She has now moved out with our children and moved in with her mum and dad, who are very distraught and angry at her for her deceipt but it is their daugther. She is now saying that the other evening i made her feel very threatened with my use of words.

She has also moved money over the past few days as well.

We both went to counselling last night. We both felt that this did not help and that the counsellor was not helping. When he asked my wife what she was expecting out of this, her reply was that she was here on my behalf and to convince me that her decision is the right one.

I cannot believe that she is not prepared to give it another chance. When I ask her, she says that we have both gone well over the line and their is no return. I cannot stop thinking what I have done to cause this and this is hurting so many people about a break up. I trult want to save it. I love her very much and our children.

She does not want to talk.

Where do I go from here??

Concerned Reader

18th November 2004, 03:00 PM

Dear Lost Soul

If you have a look through some of the threads such as 'Walking the Plank' you will see that your situation is not unique. Right at the moment your drama is very high and this is a bad time to be making decisions. Put off any decision you possibly can and avoid being pushed in to agreeing anything. Despite the emotional feel of urgency, all of this will keep until more facts are known.

Is it possible to get counselling from a pro-marriage service? One criticism which has been raised repeatedly is that some counselling organizations are so neutral that they are almost a divorce service. If there is a church near you they may be able to point you to their preferred counsellors.

One use of a counsellor at this time is for you to have a safety-valve, a place to take the negative feelings. You appreciate what a delicate position your in-laws are in. If there has been a close contact between you these past 20 years they will be unwilling to lose you, and so long as you don't ask them to choose between you both, they will be able to keep a relationship going.

Personally, I would act to strengthen the relationship with the in-laws right now. Apologise for anything you may have done wrong, say you understand their position, say you want to keep a relationship because that is in the best interests of the grandchildren. Your wife may not like this, but it is one of the things which she will have to accept if she wishes to disolve the marriage.

The reason I say to wait for more facts, is that it is unclear whether you W has met someone she is determined to be with, or has just had the most stupid fling. Putting it delicately, there are many 30-something women that have unwise affairs through boredom, flattery, insecurity, whatever, but that does not mean that the object of their affection is going to start a new life with them.

These things can fizzle out and many marriages to my certain knowledge have survived.

Do not do any more talking on this subject to her friends or relatives (and only limited words to the in-laws). The ones which matter know what has happened, the others do not need to know. By making the affair public it makes it more difficult for your wife to come back. Likewise, no more following. It may feel natural, but it will look bad.

Establish quickly the periods when you will look after the children and make it clear that the family home is your W's home; if she wishes to come back to look after them too, that is alright. If she wishes for a separate bed, that is OK, and if she wishes to sleep in her own bed, that is alright.

What you are aiming for is some breathing space where you and your wife can objectively assess the value of the marriage and whether everybody's long-term interests are served by staying married or splitting up. The decision should be taken only when people's tempers have had a chance to simmer down.

Saying 'calm down' is such an ineffectual thing advise, but if you look at other threads you will see that the initial shock of a confrontation seems to take at least a month to wear off, after which it becomes a little easier to think more clearly.

I am sorry this has happened and I wish you well.

lost soul

18th November 2004, 05:31 PM

Thank you for the person who has just advised, it is very much appreciated.

I was really mad for the first time when i asked her to leave for her own benefit. She found this very threatening especially if the kids could hear (they did not as i was speaking and not shouting. I called her all the names which i have never done.

Until June this year I carried a very very good job, which unfortunately saw me working 7 days a week. I think she might be resenting this as well. I eventually stopped and have slowed down while she is now working longer and harder. I dont understand.

I also know she loves her job because she was off for so long. She keeps talking about it, earns well,earns loads of respect(which maybe i dont give her) and she keeps talking about her boss all the time and that they know each other very well ON EVERYTHING as she told me.

I was sure something was going down. Maybe its me being paranoid or she really wants me back working in a good job again. I dont know.

She just keeps saying, we have went too far, you are and still involving loads of people. You have phoned people in my work, my friends and my family. You are even trying to manipulate my parents. I can honestly say that I am not manipulating. She made the mistake not me.

I did listen to your comment about not making any contact with anyone. I now see that as wise advice and I regret doing it, but only desperate to find out more that I was not getting from my wife.

She wont come back and she is adamant about moving on.

She says that I always say one thing and do another. To be honest I probably am at times. She is terrified that I would not forgive and forget and that I would just say this to get her back.

This is very frustrating.

I am trying so hard to get her to keep up counselling but she only wants to do counselling on a one to one basis about herself.

I do not want to lose my family.

Just like you

28th November 2004, 12:16 AM

Sorry for butting in but.....Spring, everything I have read in you quotes could have been writtten by me. I have been married for 21 years and our anniversary is coming up and I guess that's why these feeling that I have (which have been growing for the past 5 years) have become so intensified. My husband is, has been my best friend but for all of these years, but I'm not attracted to him as a spouse should be. My feelings for him are more of the brother/sister nature. The communication of these problems is nonexistant. The time, of course, is never "right" to initiate a discussion that I know is going to change EVERYTHING. I've reached the point now that I must set a date to let the proverbial cat out of the bag. He is always asking me what's wrong and we did, briefly begin to discuss things about a year ago, but other family problems overtook. This is ALWAYS on my mind, not a day or hour goes by that I'm not thinking about our problem and how to approach it. It is beginning, I believe, to take a toll on my physical health (I'm loosing my hair). Emotionally it is tearing me apart. I dread and avoid sex as it is not satisfying to say the least. I cry myself to sleep afterwards. I've pictured in mind my the ways in which I will begin this discussion with him, I've practically versed the entire conversation. There is no easy answers or ways to address this but I cannot find the courage to initiate it. I do know that I will not, can not live the rest of my life this way and I have no one to talk to. We have three children, two grown and one 11. (more to worry about) but I have to take one thing at a time. Hi Alan

Believe me Saturday was horrendous. I think I cried for me telling him, and then cried even more for seeing what I did/ have done to him. I never ever want to hurt him, as he has never done anything wrong. It is just me, perhaps I was too young to get married, perhaps I have just changed and not brought him along on my journey. I believe the most awful thing is that we have both been so good for each other. We have decided to think about all the good times we've had, what had each of us love each other and concentrate on that for some time.

I just don't understand how I feel at present. Sounds rather odd, but it is true. perhaps it is the winter blues, perhaps it is worse. But I can put my hand on my heart and say that I will do my best for my H, even if it is not the best for me. I am good at that ignoring myself for the sake of others. perhaps that is how I got into this mess in the first place!

Sounds like you have had down time too recently. Have you asked your wife why she is angry. She can't be angry at you? It seems like you have done everything right to try and make coming back/ realising her emotions/ etc as gentle as possible. Perhaps she feels you should be angry with her for doing this and being so rational about it. I am sure you don't feel anywhere near rational, but how you display yourself to her, if you get my meaning.

So what am i missing out on? What do I feel I need? At present I wish I knew, if I did I'd tell my husband immediately and say there you go "Home Improvement's it's tool time" fix it quick. But nothing is as easy as that is it. I feel alone in my own home, even if my H is there, he wants different things to me, I don't feel loved, I don't feel needed or wanted, I don't feel attractive to him, I feel empty, sore. I want to feel like I am the centre of someone's universe. Sounds a bit fairytale, and a bit silly. But I don't feel important. I don't feel I have a role in our marriage, just that I am there as a bank and someone to have on his arm. I want to look into his eyes and see that passion, love, whatever it is that betrays our eyes when we look at another person and there is that spark, that recognition that there is chemistry, a bond. Even though I know this is not the case, I don't think me not being in his life would be as bad as he thinks it would be. Well not from the way we are now. I am sure, and I hope that would not be the case, but that is how separate I feel from him. That is how he has made me feel, unintentionally I hope. You are right i should tell him these things, I owe us that much, but how can I do that without sounding harsh, being cruel, hurting him?

I have never yet said I can't. So I will try. I think if we talk more, understand each other a bit more, it may just be the turning point. What should I do though if that turning point doesn't happen for me or him or both of us? Perhaps I expect too much, perhaps I am being selfish, I am really not sure, but for all the pain I will give it my best shot.

Spring

JasonL

28th November 2004, 10:39 PM

Well it makes me feel better to know I'm not the only one married to someone I don't love. What makes my situation a bit different is that I never loved my wife. I married her for other reasons but love was definitely not one. It dodn't bother me at the time because although I didn't get married until my late 30's and dated dozens of women up until then, I can't really say I loved any of them. And despite not being in love and having an almost nonexistant sex life, the rest of the relationship is pretty well perfect. We have been married 16 years now and although we realize the situation isn't perfect, nether of us is complaining or contemplating divorce.So what they say IS true...love isn't everything. You can survive, and thrive, without it.

Spring271076

29th November 2004, 01:58 PM

Dear Just Like You

Spring271076

29th November 2004, 02:20 PM

Dear Just Like You

Firstly apologies, this is a bit of a ranting thread....

What do we put ourselves through. I am happy to meet someone in exactly the same place as I am in now. It is a very lonely place and one I desperately want to escape. As you may have read from my previous threads I have only been feeling like this for a short time, but every day that passes seems to bring darker clouds. So to update you all, Alan and all others on the receiving end, please advise on this one....

Well the last thread explained that I had to do, possibly the kindest (because if you don't tell someone how they feel, how can you expect them to know) and cruelist thing to my husband. And that was to tell him exactly how I felt. Not an experience I really ever want to repeat, but it is looking likely.

So I tell him, the bomb shell drops, finally I hope that something will change, perhaps I will be taken seriously. He went away for a few days so give us both a bit of a breather, which didn't really clear my mind, and I don't think it did his either (not surprisingly considering what I had said). Anyway he told me he had brought me a present. Please don't think I ever expect diamonds, fast cars, and expensive goods, but I thought considering what I just told him and he know knew how I felt, a nice sentimental, thoughtful gift sprung to mind, what a good start, break the ice when he would get home, and put us on a good step forward. Or this was what I hoped. Instead I was brought a mug, not even a nice mug, just one that cost all of 2p to make in Taiwan. Sounds ungrateful I know, and yes it is the giving that is important, but considering what we had just been through I was dumb.

Now Alan and all others out there affected by the WAW, when you are/ were trying to make your wife turn her head back towards you, would you buy her a mug! I wanted to scream, and I still do. Anyway I thought look on the bright side, he was thinking about me (hopefully not thinking that I was the mug!) and that is always a good start. Well it wasn't. We speak less now. I don't know if he thinks all is well again. I have said before to him I tell you how I feel, I suggest ways we could change things, but he never does anything about it, so why tell him? You begin to feel like you are talking to the brick wall. Well again nothing has been said, so what do I say. I am the one fighting for my marriage even though I don't love my husband in the way I should do anymore. But he that loves me doesn't bother! Not really a recipe for encouragement is it?

It is getting harder to as we approach the season of good will. I am dreading Christmas terribly, especially as it is at the in-laws. But I have booked (yes me, not my husband that wants me back, scream again!) us a couple of nights away in a swanky hotel for some "us" time. But to be honest, the closest it gets, the more I am dreading it. But all may turn out well, I like to be optimistic. One of us has to in our relationship!

Still I know there are those worse off than me, have more heartbreaking stories to tell, and are in situations that I just couldn't imagine. I try to think like this, but am slowly tiring of trying.

My health is starting to suffer aswell. Weight loss, tiredness, lack of enthusiam for everything around me, with the except of ensuring I have a blast on Friday nights. I just don't know what to do. Well I have an idea, but it is one I don't yet want to think about, not for a very long time.

Anyway I could carry on here, but won't take up much more room. the lack of those to talk to will probably mean another mail later today. But hey, chin up, keep smiling, you never know what is round the corner!

Just like you

2nd December 2004, 01:42 AM

I feel for you Spring, and I can relate. I too feel the same dark cloud above me. We are going away for the weekend soon as well and I find myself dreading it as the days get closer. It is a shame and I feel extremely guilty for feeling this way but have no way of making myself feel better about the situation. I look around me and see this family, this routine of our lives and the guilt I feel that I alone am going to destroy all of this is almost unbearable. I can't fully enjoy anything in life and I am overwhelmed with the thought that every aspect of my life would be in color rather than black and white as it is now, if only I had my life back. People are going to be hurt by what I choose to do and they are going to be hurt by what I don't do. If I stay in this marriage and endure the unhappiness like I'm sure so many others do, is that going to be better for everyone else in my family? I just don't know. What kind of mother would I be to my children if I were truly happy in life? I can't help but feel that it would be better, in the long run, for my children. How do you choose between your happiness and everyone elses? I cannot live like this the rest of my life and from what I can tell these feelings are not going anywhere, they are getting more intense. I'm glad I have someplace to vent, God knows I can't talk to anyone about this until he and I have discussed it.

My health is suffering as well and as these feelings have developed and intensified over the years, yes years, I can only imagine the havoc I'm wreaking on my body.

I ask myself all the time, what is keeping you from confronting your husband about this. The answer is always, the fear of the unknown (his reaction) could it be violent. The fact that once I say what I need to say there is no way of taking it back (that in itself is both a relief as well as a fear). To let the proverbial cat out of the bag is a scary thing. When, and I am saying 'when' not 'if', I do this; there will be no turning back things will either get better or worse there will be no more living in limbo. I so need that. I am living on the edge right now and I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.

Do you have children Spring? I can't remember if you mentioned that in your earlier posts. I hope that you can find a little peace this holiday season, I know how hard it is. Hang in there, life is all about change, good or bad and we just have to keep on moving along.

matty

3rd December 2004, 11:00 PM

reading thru these posts is good help, I recently put up my own post as im desperately out of luck with my wife just now, im gutted too but until I have tried absolutely everything I will never give up, I would say the same to anyone here wife or husband especially if kids are involved, keep trying no matter what, We all had the love at some time and there must be a way of rekindling, well thats what im hoping for.

I may be panicking too soon as my wife only walked out last week but having been here so many times, I know this one is the biggest test and looks much worse..

as I say everyone should try to work out a marriage, my family was not a broken one in my days of growing up but I seen a lot of struggle and fighting. I lost my mother at 46 years old, she died of breast cancer, I was so glad both my parents worked hard to keep the marriage alive thru the bad times . You never know what can happen in life but marriage is a commitment and these days its all too easy to walk away, ARE WE ALWAYS TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH OUR PARTNERS, maybee some are but I personally think 90% of us at least feel like this at least once in our relationships..

IF ITS GOING WRONG, TALK WORK HARDER AND RESOLVE ISSUES !!

God I wish my wife was on here looking for help and reading this too

ps.my own post probably contradicts what im saying on this but this is my opinion on what should be done and my post is about my wife's stubberness to resolve !

frizzy1

4th December 2004, 01:00 AM

I agree however having tried to convince my HB that I really want to give our marriage a go, and I mean really, he still isn't interested and is insisting on divorce. I am gutted, especially as I know I could have potentially have changed things.

The sad thing is that we have a great relationship, he is my sole mate, we giggle at the same things etc but that isn't enough for him..

Oh well, feel very depressed at the mo.....can't stop weeping at the thought of being without him and all he wants is to complete the divorce pettition!!!

Life is so unfair sometimes...

matty

4th December 2004, 01:19 AM

Frizzy, havn't read all your posts but if no one else is involved then ask for more time to work it out, I couldnt advise much but do not dive in and give a divorce, keep trying if its worth saving, currently my wife is talking about life without me, divorce has not been brought up, house sale in the possible future has but thats giving me a t let 6 months breaving space to work things out and we cant sell for at least 6 months. They say time is a great healer, lets both hope so.

If you are soul mates as you say there must be some kind or reconcilliation, work hard to find out what !!

Spring271076

6th December 2004, 06:27 PM

Dear Just Like You

Reading your email is like looking in a mirror! We seem to be having the very same feelings of dread, fear, confusion, unhappiness, you name it, it looks as if we have had it.

To answer your thread.

No I am lucky that I haven't, we haven't, got children. I dread to think what that would do to me if I did. It is bad enough trying to look after myself and keep things ticking over let alone caring for little treasures. So I can't really say about what you should do, but I shall try to help.

Unfortunately I come from a broken home, after 21 years (I think) of marriage my mum and Dad split up. After councelling and a few turbulent years (very settled after getting my degree and house now before people get any impressions) I now reflect and realise that my Mum is happier with her partner than I ever saw her with my Dad (Dad left Mum for another woman) and to be honest I would rather them be happy than together and miserable. They never fought, well very, very rarely, and I am glad of that. I think if you see your parents dislike, hate each other, or are always arguing what sort of image does that givce to a child for future relationships. What sort of image does a loveless marriage portray aswell? That marriage is a miserable place to be, a sentence? Now what i have said above is easy, and believe me at the time I did not feel like this. But if any friend asked you if they should stay in a relationship and be miserable, what friend would say yes put up, shut up and get on with it. Not very understanding I am sure you will agree.

The only person I have confidened in is my Mum, she says I should work at it. Oh I wish it were that easy. It also makes me feel trapped and strangled. If my own Mum is telling me I should be miserable for the rest of my life just because what we had once was good what hope is there? I thought of all she had been through she may see where I was coming from. But no, all alone again.

We had the week-end together, no shift work. So I try to make things better, yes I try, but for how many times I don't know. By Saturday night I feel as if I am getting cabin fever just being in the house alone with him. On Sunday I make the excuse to go food shopping and spend 2 hours driving around in tears, not a very safe thing to do when driving. I do not recommend it.

How long have you been feeling like you have? You mention years, I feel scared even thinking it may be that long for me. I am still under 30 and I don't want to say one day yes I was married for 10 plus years, but I never loved him for many of those. And hey now I am too old to go and find love again. (I don't actually believe that by the way, love can happen at any time in your life, but you do have more options at a certain age) How harsh does that sound? Also it scares me that I may have to spend the rest of my life alone. I just want to be happy inside myself, well just to be happy is good.

What I can't understand is all these people that say, try, try again, try harder, keep on trying. Is feeling like pushing your car off the road because you are so alone and miserable and can't do anything about your situation (except the inevitable divorce) I ask you now do I keep on trying? Yes at present my only visable options are my death or divorce. Believe me the former scares me more so I don't think I'll be doing anything silly/ selfish/ don't right foolish like that. But that is how I feel.

So perhaps I can have some suggestions as to what to try next. I am trying to save a failing marriage that I am starting not to want to save. Whilst my husband who wants to save us doesn't give a sweet FA. So all those who have had WAW please tell me as I am struggling to know what to do.

Do I tell him again it is not working, that it has not got better? What do I need to do? I am talking, organising nice little things for us, even tried sex (it was good, but I realised I did not want to be having sex with my husband, although after 4 months I was a bit desperate! Only joking :-) ).

I feel so desperate, God help me please.

Just like you

7th December 2004, 01:32 AM

Spring -

I'm relieved for you that there are no children involved. Although my children aren't little, it is still a consideration in the decisions I make. My husband and rarely fight, and if we do it is not loud and traumatizing and it is quickly resolved. So the children don't witness that type of behavior, but what they do witness, I'm sure of, is the distance between the two of us. Or more importantly, how my husband pushes toward me and how I push away. I can't tell you the last time I told my husband I loved him or initiated anything; even a kiss. I don't compliment him, or show any type of affection toward him. It is extremely one sided and it must be obvious to the children. He has accepted this for years with little if no complaints. I feel guilty that he is not receiving the love he should or could be getting. This feeling of guilt is something else that consumes me every day.

I too keep myself busy and look for reasons or excuses to leave the house. God forbid all of the kids are out of the house at once and we are alone. You can cut the tension with a knife. His first thought is alway to have sex, because the kids are gone and that's just what we should do. I have no desire to be with him. I will think of every excuse to get out of the house and if we do "have sex", I will not call it "making love" because it stopped being that years ago, it is unfullfiling to say the least. I dread it more than anyone will ever know and he has to feel that. He is always asking me what's wrong, but the time is never right to take that huge step. It will be the point of no return and how do you decide when you should let that bomb drop?

My next step is to decide when and how I will do that. It has been easier to just live with the feelings I have, but I've reached the point where it is taking a toll on me. I don't want to live like this for another minute, but I have so much else to consider. I'm afraid I'm just going to explode one day and that will be that. That is NOT the way I want to handle this but I may not have any control over how it all comes out.

I wish you peace and love in your life Spring. Just hang in there, you are stronger than you think.

Spring271076

31st January 2005, 04:54 PM

Well it has been a while since I wrote anything. I think the feeling of emptyness doesn't inspire onesself. Well things have not got better. In fact they are worse, and I feel like I'm just bumbling along with my life. Not getting any where and just drowning. As I have always said I have not given up fighting for my marriage, but as I am the one that is no longer in love with my husband, it is becoming increasingly hard. He still seems to have his head in the sand, ignores what I am trying to say, yell, scream at him (although i dont actually do this I mean metaphorically). I booked a romantic short break over Christmas and although I didn't want the romance part I felt that getting away might just help us talk and see things from each others point of view. As per usual I say, he listens, and nothing changes, again! (That is as well as the other way round, I try to change am doing a lot more chores, thanking him more, and anything else suggested, but at least I try for more than the day it is said on)

One good thing is that we may get to see a councellor, whenever they call back. I really hope it is soon as I am not sure what to do at present. If I am in the house with my husband I feel like I have cabin fever, if I know he'll be at home when I get home I get cabin fever, in fact I am feeling most allergic at present. It is ok when friends are round or I am on my own as I can go into my own world and enjoy that, but with no distractions all is far to clear to see.

Some advise. We both decided a long time ago to renovate our house, we have been in the process of getting all the plans etc sorted. We are now in a situation where our architect wants to start work. Now I see this work as necessary whether we are together or not as it will help with the sale of the house. Personally I also see this work as a deadline to my decision. Should I tell him that I see these works as an end to things (as that is truely where I see things going)? Personally I think this is only fair and the right thing to do. But also this is a timescale I really can't face at present.

It has got to the point that as I can't see him fight (he never has not since the day I told him) I can't hold on any more and that scares the hell out of me. What do you do in these situations? House, living arrangements, mortgage, it is all so horrid and terribly depressing. As there is no one else involved and our friends our both our friends I have no one to go to, to ask for a sofa for who knows how long. I just want to be alone and not have this part of my life that is squeezing me to dead. I just want to cry, hide, recover and begin life again. I apologise to anyone who has been on the receiving end of these feelings, but before you judge can I just ask "Did you fight for your marriage?" I hope you all say yes. If you didn't, or appear as if you didn't, what would you say?

Had to get the above off my chest, even though worse now, each little bit helps!!

Waterman

1st February 2005, 11:12 AM

Are there any examples out there of people who have been in this situation and have come through it together? Can anybody here say that they were in this situation and worked it out? Especially, I want to here of anyone who felt they didn't love their partner, but stuck at it together and learned to see the other in a different light. Maybe the other partner's attempts to change and reform worked. Has it happened or are we clutching atstarws? I read here so often that it is worthwhile to keep on trying, and that success can come but is that true or is it a futile quest? If there are some good examples out there then surely we need to see and hear from them?

girawheen

10th September 2005, 09:22 AM

Are there any examples out there of people who have been in this situation and have come through it together? Can anybody here say that they were in this situation and worked it out?

Its not easy but it can work, though its still ongoing!

Ok. Best I set the tone first of where I'm at. I'm 33 yrs old married 12 yrs, and about 5 years ago my wife said 'to my face' I don’t love you sexually anymore. Though we have 3 kids and one even came about after that day, for a time it looked like my wife had made amends. BUT about a few months after our last child was born. The crunch came. We had a chat and I was told to my face again 'I don't love you and never did’. As you can imagine, I died that day cause I worship the ground she walks on and still do. Well I have to be honest it still hurts and I can not get it out of my head BUT regardless of the situation I AM going to make it work.

Though we still have no sex or even touch, as its something my wife cannot even stand me to do, we are friends and I have made the decision to give her the space she needs. She told me to my face that she cannot give me what I want and that is affection, but at least she is honest that helps

We had a top up chat just last night and even though that door in our marriage is close its only One. It a big one at that I admit but we are still together we talk we still even sleep in the same bed.

My wife is a product of a divorce so if any thing its why she has not walked out the door and do to our kids what her parents did to her and even what her mum did to her father (it was not pretty). I am from a stable home with both my mum and dad still been together and so I am committed to death.

We don’t know how it’s going to pan out when the kids are older but my wife said I am not be part of her getting old (that hurt too as you can imagine) but we are in the here and now.

I can’t speak for everyone who maybe in the same boat especially if you a male who has not had sex for 2 or so years, but first think of the kids think of you wife / husband and put yourself last (I have) and I made a decision and I am sticking to it

I am a Christian and I'm not going to go all spiritual here but it’s helped me to have an outlet in prayer as you need one. I am hoping I can get an outlet through this forum too as this is the first time I have spoken about this to anyone beside my wife.

I have to say its been good to talk about this, I hope this helps anyone that reads this …

God bless

Deb73

10th September 2005, 11:53 PM

Girawheen

I have to say your post was very interesting to me. My H has just told me(2 weeks ago) that he doesnt love me anymore, it devastated my world, he says that he has been battling with his feelings for months now, but has never deemed it necessary to inform me of whats been going on. He is still living at home, sharing our bed(though no sex up to now) and i am still cooking and washing for him.

I can so understand how you say you 'died' the day your W told you how she felt. I feel so in turmoil at the moment. I have been coping ok with the day to day stuff, but my family are really making things hard for me, with the constant demands for answers and offered solutions, i feel like screaming at them to leave me alone to make on my decisions. I wish i could have kept all this from them but events over took us and now they know, did you have this problem?

I feel that i am on the very beginning of the road, but despite my convictions of wanting the best possible outcome for my son and still loving my H, if i should just move on? You have stuck with it for the sake of your family, which i feel should be comended, but would you in retrospect advise this for others?

girawheen

11th September 2005, 04:41 AM

Girawheen
but would you in retrospect advise this for others?

I really don’t know if I’ve got the right to give advice, only to say you have to do what your heart says is right thing to do. In my case it’s the kids that are my number one priority.

I have to confess I have not told any of my family though I know my W has told her mum and her two older sisters. I was glad that she did cause I know in my W's case she needed to let it out. Me on the other hand cannot bring myself to tell my mum or dad. I am my mummy’s boy and with me being an only child, my kids are my parents only grandkids and so telling them at them moment is not high on my to do list. The good thing is when (IF GOD willing) that day comes, my W and I agreed that we tell them together. I know its going to hurt my mum and dad. For the record they are still together. I can understand your pain with your family and friends knowing.

I guess I would say that if I was in your shoes, I would not concentrate on what your friends or family are saying. At the end it’s YOUR life and YOUR heart. They can go home to their own life, husbands and wives; YOU are the only one who can make a decision that affects YOU. I'm not saying to avoid advice I'm just saying don't get forced into anything, that will be the mistake'

I hope this helps

For the record I still love my W even more now and never will stop...

girawheen

12th September 2005, 05:46 PM

To all who read my post from the 10th of Sept. Please forgive me when I said I am strong WELL I am finding after a chat my W and I had on the 9th, reality hit me hard. In that chat she told me what I sort of knew would eventuality happen and that she would leave me (though when the kids were old enough to understand) and its sunk in and its really hurting … OUCH .. !!!

Well in short I am having a real hard time being told. If there are any Christians who read this post (or any God fearing person for that matter) who is praying at the moment, could you please add me into your prayers. I need a boost at the moment especially as she is right beside me most of the time and I can't even touch her and with knowledge I may never again.

Regards
A tad bit depressed at the moment

Donna Waldron

30th September 2005, 03:27 PM

Testing Testing

Chocolate Bean

30th September 2005, 09:02 PM

It is very sad to feel one is not in love with one's spouse, or loved by one's spouse. I, too, would like to hear how other couples have come through successfully in this situation. I can only observe it would have to be through a committment on the part of both members of the couple. I do not see how it could work out if only one half of the couple is working at it.

evad

7th February 2007, 05:12 AM

I am going to take a lot of heat for this one. but i want advice one way or another. I too am in similar situation. I have been out of love with my wife for quite a while now. I just dont love her like a husband should. I feel alone at home. and if it werent for my 2 kids who i love very much i would have told her long ago how i felt. this has been going on for a year now. i finally told her how i felt because she has been seeing changes in me. she sees the distance i put between us and the no touching or talking to her. she would probably like to try to save this, but i have been sad and distant too long to try. i want to try separation for a while. dont know how long. I dont have anywhere to go and we dont have a lot of extra money. i dont know what else to do. have tried everything to make it work. we even had a scheduled trip to vegas a few weeks ago. i thought ok this could be good timing. but as much fun as it was to go to a new city for vacation, still nothing changed. i still felt lost and alone.
any advice will be appreciated
thanks
dave

Mike56

7th February 2007, 08:03 AM

Do the decent thing Dave and tell her.

alladender

24th February 2007, 07:43 PM

Well, here I am, making the same pathetic posting as Bill and Dave and other miserable guys.
I'm in the same boat - in a sexless marriage, wanting a big change but scared to death of what a divorce might to do my precious three year old boy.
I can't imagine life without him every day - and yet, I'm just not in love with my wife like I want or should be. We've had sex once in the last four years. That's not a typo. I do love her as a person and would be completely guilt-racked if I had to look her in the face and say I wanted out. But the fact is, I want passion in my life. Oh, and here's where all the women here can get all mad at me - I'm having an affair with a wonderful woman who I feel is more "the one" for me.
So, here are my choices: leave and try and find true happiness for myself and in doing so, make my wife an emotional wreck and abandon my son, who I love dearly.
Or, stay and be a "martyr" for him and end the affair and just be "happy" with a nice house, nice car, intact family unit - and no passion whatsoever. And yes, we've tried things and worked on things, but there's just.....nothing there for me. I don't want sex with her. It just doesn't turn me on anymore - and I'm not sure it ever really did. So why did I get married then? Because she brought a lot of "other stuff" to the table - stability in her job, good head on her shoulders, really was into me, etc. And, yes, we did have sex in the beginning - a lot of it.
But now we're just roommates. She doesn't want sex with me anymore either, I'm pretty sure. She never pushes for it. She's backed off a little when I did try to make it happen a few months ago.
I know what people will say - end the affair or end the marriage, but you can't do both. I know that as well. I feel like I'm nearing D Day with a decision.
But I'm so SCARED of what it will do to the kid. Plus, we don't have a lot of extra money - and I worked hard to have a lot of the creature comforts I now have. I feel I'll be "poor" with a divorce - which could make me unhappy all over again, in a new relationship.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sirena

12th March 2007, 07:41 PM

Well, like many have said before, sorry that they're so many of us. I have been married for 5 years, have a 3yr girl, and a boy almost 2. Thought that because he was previously dumped by his ex wife, and took his son, he would be more mature and try to handle this marriage better. I dealt with rejection (sexually), dealt with the porn, masturbation issue... Dealt with Play station all the time, no help around the house or our first baby. Dealt with comparisson with his ex, he made comments about how "pffed" or how my belly was a little flabby (this was before my baby, and I weighed 108lbs) I mean, how fat could I have been. Now I look at pics, and I wish I could look as hot as I did then now... although I've made sure to still look good, I only kept 12 lbs after 2 babies... (not bad). I got tired of doing everything, trying to keep the relationship sparked.... I had to deal with an ex-girlfriend calling him and vice-versa and him lying about it in my face...I believe I have been emotionally disturbed. I asked for a divorce in 2004, and he cried and promissed to change and help, and blah, blah, blah... At that time I already knew that what I felt for him was dead. Anyways, I warned him that if he stayed, it would be because of our daughter cause as I had managed before, I did not need him, I had only one child not 2 (HIM). No sex for 4 months, and then I did him a favor by giving him some, and got pregnant...He started crying, not even me (what is up with dat). He has in some things changed, but once again things have gotten out of hand, I believe his priorities are mixed up, cause I seem to observe that if things aren't his way, when he says, then the heck with everything else, everyones life is miserable too. I have stayed for the sake of my babies because they love him... yet I see that I am going through exactly the same thing my mother went through. She was also very unhappy, and my dad cheated on her and was very controlling... and for the sake of us, she stayed. I feel like I am trapped, yet I don't want my daughter to end up going through the same feelings and dilema that I am goign through. I told him this past Dec I wanted a divorce one again.. honestly, I don't hate him, but the thought of even kissing him, repulses me. I don't want anything intimate with him, I don't even like to be around him anymore...I just can't deal with it. He said he would do anything to fix the marriage, I wanted counseling, he said ok. It's March, I kept telling Him about it, and he has done nothing, he said he researched the internet and found nothing, yet he can research plasma prices and run out the door and buy one. Like I said his priorities are screwed up, he said he was willing to do anything, yet he has not kept his word. I feel so unhappy, I'm only 26... I feel like there is so much more to life than to just be sad and miserable... I want to fall inlove....I want to start fresh... I want to have what I never had... a wedding in a church, a honeymoon...and to feel like everytime I see my partner I want to bite a piece of Him. My husband doesn't like to talk about anything, he always says I always have an issue, or want a fight... He just backs out, blocks me and recurrs to his little toys, or his freaking sports... on TV and in the pc... He can't take the time to find a counselor.... yet he finds the time to watch a pay-per-view fights, or call a radio station for a free TV... Now he wants to go on a cruise, and I would of loved it years ago... Now I can't even imagine the thought of being with Him by myself, it groses me out. And he's always talking like all he wants to do on board is have sex... To me the thought is repulsive...yet I have stayed for my children... I have talked to Him to whatever extent he has let me, I even told him that if I've stayed with Him it's because I feel sorry for Him and the kids.. he has said he doesn't care as long as he's with me (is this a sick thought?) This is the abbrvtd story of my life, I am sorry there are so many of us in this predicament... I wish I could be happy again... I really do.

Lael

1st April 2007, 08:47 AM

I do understand this situation...there is nothing more painful and heartbreaking than a *dead marriage* as I have been living with this for almost 20 years and lucky to have 1 child. Romance or any intimate contact has been minimal since day one with my husband (I had no idea)...I have felt robbed of what I thought Marriage was suppose to be when it came to the bedroom. We have not had relations in 3 years, but I was lucky in the past to have it seasonally. We are pretty much married in name only, and basically roommates. I do not feel like a *Married Woman* or *Wife*, I have a *companion*. He has never had a desire to be intimate from the beginning of our marriage, it shocked me! I just thought it was an awkward stage that he would outgrow (having a religious background) as we moved along at first in the marriage...it never changed. We have been to many therapists and when they start to get too close he bows out fast...finds an excuse or there is always a problem with *them*. I have thought of divorce so much over the years and we have split 2 times, but again finances as with everyone else here being and issue it is not an easy task. What hurts the most is I am trapped, I gave up much to be a Mom, I wanted to make sure we had a roof over our heads...I cry myself to sleep most nights over the choice I made. Now,we have hardly any friends or family (as he makes it difficult), our child has acted out over all this which causes additional stress to me...SO...take it from someone who knows, let the spouse go if there is no feelings anymore. If you really do not *love them* do not strangle them anymore with holding on to something that is dead or comatose. Do them and you a favour, let them have the opportunity for *joy* in their life before they die...no matter how much it costs. I hope someday, I find my true love...I would love to feel again.

keeponkeepingon

22nd May 2007, 03:15 PM

Although this is a sad topic, I am glad to find so many others in the same boat as me. I found out 3 years ago that my husband had been having ab affair for around 2 years and although he ended it and we are still together, I no longer love or desire him. I am heartened to find that there are other people like me who have chosen to stay in their marriages for the sake of the children (contrary to popular advice). I am the product of a divorced home and it affected me badly. I really believe that having a stable home is the best gift you can give to your children so I have chosen to put their needs first.

For me, this is a choice. Sure it can be lonely but kids are 100% happy. If we were divorced I would still be lonely and they would be financially and emotionally worse off. Knowing that it is a choice makes it easier for me. We are only trapped when we tell ourselves we are. I have no desire to have the emotional and financial fallout from being a single parent.

Since I dropped all my expectations, we seldom row. I know that my husband probably has not loved me for a number of years but we get on well as friends and are both 100% committed to being good parents. When the children are gone we will probably have no reason to stay together but I have had my fingers burned too often to think about another relationship anyway. Just today one of my colleagues told me that a guy that we both know was well known for cheating behind his wife's back. He seemed like such a nice person to me...

I get by by concentrating on what I do have: wonderful children, a good job, good friends. Most of the time I am happy. Sometimes things get to me but then I wonder if that isn't the same in any relationship?

unhappyandtrapped@22

9th July 2007, 07:22 PM

I see this bored is years old, so i may never get a reply. but i feel SO much better knowing i'm not alone. i know my husband doesn't love me. we NEVER and i mean NEVER talk or anything. we have a child and that's why he stay. i feel exactly like you all, i just wish he would tell me. so for you husbands out there. please tell your wife. i wish he can just put me out of my misery instead of prolonging the inevitable.

mikswif

17th August 2007, 09:24 PM

Hi there,
I'm with you. We had the big talk last night, and I was not gently honest, I was pretty blunt. I told him I didn't know how much longer I could live with a man who didn't love me, and that I've come to the point where I feel completely detatched. I feel completely alone and scared b/c I have two sons, ages three and nine. The nine year old is from a prior relationship; his father and I never married but have coparented quite successfully. I can't imagine the chaos of two separate dads, three houses. I feel my older is the best most amazing brother to my younger, and I already hate that the older must be away with his dad. My younger one adores his big brother and misses him terribly whenever he's gone. How would it be if BOTH brother and daddy were gone at the same time???? I know I made this bed for myself and now must lie in it. I need to come to grips with it, I suppose.

jools

17th August 2007, 11:16 PM

Short of emigrating there's no real answer to this. And if you did emigrate it would suit you but deprive the children of contact with their dads. The only answer is for you to somehow come to accept the situation.
________
Airsoft sniper (http://airsoft-shop.info/tag/sniper)

mikswif

20th August 2007, 09:08 AM

HI again,
Listen, this may sound a bit pedestrian, but I'm going to recommend a book. I had a long talk with a friend today, and seems she has been going through something similar. She's an amazing woman -- as I speak with her I feel like her calling was to be a marriage and family counselor. She's so spot-on and eloquent in her descriptions of both the problem/s and solutions. She and her husband went through the exercises in the Dr. Phil McGraw book entitled Relationship Rescue. At first I wasn't crazy about the idea, but the more it came up during the conversation, the more intrigued I became. This friend did a really wonderful job of explaining that this is just a symptom of underlying problems in the marriage, and that both partners deserve to be exactly who they're meant to be; to thrive in the relationship and live in truth. Lack of intimacy is a sign of hiding from truth, I suppose??

Anyway, I ran out and bought the book today, and read the first couple of chapters. I found myself hanging on every word. Love Dr. Phil or hate him... this book (so far) has completely changed the way I look at my marriage. In less than an hour of reading, I felt huge relief and a renewed hope for the future of my marriage.

My husband has agreed to read it too and to do the 14 day set of exercises with me. This is partly because I was so disillusioned that I actually went away by myself this weekend to try and process how I wanted to move forward.

I wish you all happiness, and I'll keep you posted.

miserable

2nd October 2007, 07:16 PM

I am absolutely in the same boat as you. I am too young to be living this way, but I have lived life going through the motions for too long. I am too scared to leave and too miserable to stay

cheleanne

19th October 2007, 03:53 PM

Wow, if only my husband WOULD go through the motions... I would be a different woman... I know my husband loves me, but he has no libido... NONE! 7 years together and maybe sexual encounters 20 times. That's just not acceptable.

Bill, you need to let her know how you feel... things can be changed and maybe the things that bother you about her will change. You can feel love again for her, but it's work on both ends... You can't hold up the charade forever.... it's just not human...think about it and let us know how you make out.... Good luck!

Spliff

8th December 2007, 03:53 PM

I am telling my wife today that its over. Married 5 years, together 14, 1 7 year old daughter. This is the hardest thing because my daughter is my world and Im pretty much her best friend. I cant take anymore mental abuse from this woman. About 3 years ago, our sex life all but diminished to lights out and her facing away from me - get it over. We dont talk. She's driven us to the brink of bankruptcy and continues. She goes out all night with her "friends from work" and lies about where shes going or who shes with cause "she doesn't want me to get mad" I'm sad constantly and sick of it. She pays no attention to my little girl, just comes home, plops on the couch, and doesn't want to be bothered. Not only is this marriage loveless, I Hate her, the sight of her, the thought of her. I busted my rearend for years and supported her while she pursued degrees. The beginning of this year, she took a job in the mid south, (we're from the Northeast), I am a skilled blue collar worker and there are no skilled jobs here, she wants me to stay home, but any dignity I had...is gone...I don't feel like a man. When I do try to talk about it, she runs to her room and pouts for 2 days until I apologize. This is why I hate her, I have no job therefore I have no income and no chance of keeping my little girl. I wish I could just take her back to NY and start over. Anyway, I'm telling her its over as soon as she walks through the door from her recent allnighter. I actually feel a little stronger and sure footed after writing this...thank you all.