How do you know when to give up?

[Unregistered]

I am at the end of my tether. Been with my partner since I was 19 (am now 35), he's 42, married for six years with two children aged 5 and 4.

I suffered badly with depression for many years made worse by post natal depression but after three years of counselling and various medications I feel I am finally finding out who I am and what I want.

Trouble is I think my marriage is now over. I am desparately unhappy and after persuading my husband to attend relate twice in the last two years together with many discussions over what is making me unhappy nothing has changed. It is like he hasn't been listening. He is becoming more selfish, appears to be able to organise life for things he wants, but seems not to want to take responsibility for the family. For example, he goes away every year with his hobby and he has no problems arranging it for him and everybody else, but if I ask him to arrange a family holiday he doesn't have time, or keeps "forgetting".

He has had no involvment in the upbringing of the children to date, no discussions have been held on their education, discipline etc, he just agrees with everything I say.

He acts like a lodger round the house, ie the mess is not his responsibility to clear up - even if he makes the mess.

He is only interested in large re-building projects around the house, ie he will build an extension but not fix a leaking tap - as if it is too low for him.

I am lucky, according to friends, because he will look after the children, take them out sometimes to give me a break, but I have to get them ready and clean them when they come back.

I know I hold a lot of resentment, frustration and anger and have tried to work through this with my counsellor before but I can't get rid of it. The less interest he shows in his family, the more I want out and I have lost the energy to try to make it better any more.

I don't know what to do now, can't stop crying, don't want him around, but do still love him.

Sorry for rambling - but can anybody help me - when do you give up?

[snuggle]

Hi, do not know if I am the best person for advice but here go's. My husband has been the same as yours for years also, if there is something he is interested in he go's for it full speed ahead, anything to do with the family and all of a sudden his life is so busy. He did not take our daughter out alone until she was 5 years old!!!, not once not even to the park or to give me a break, you are not alone a lot of women are in the same situation as you. It is hard for me to say when you give up, I gave up last April could not take it anymore, although different situation my husband is abusive and violent, I was glad I eventually had the courage to leave i felt free like I was floating it felt so good. Until he got to me again, he promised me the world and I fell for it here I am back again 5 months later living the nightmare all over again, I am devestated that I put myself and my daughter back in this position. But I have left once and I will do it again, when the time is right and believe me i am not coming back this time.
You really need to look at the future happiness of you and your children, there is no use in staying in a loveless marriage, we are only here once why not make the most of it. It was not until we left that my husband said that he really realised how bad he was, but unfortunatly in my case that did not last long. Do you have any family or close friends to confide in?, somewhere to go if you do decide to leave, or would your partner leave?. Suggest a trial seperation and see if it is the relationship that is getting you down or maybe there is another issue but the relationship seems to recieve the blame. Good Luck and be happy

[Unregistered]

Hi Snuggle

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I have read your story and I feel for you. We women can be so gullible sometime. When my husband is not with me I am certain that splitting if the right thing, I have confided in a friend and my mother both of whom will support whatever decision I make. When he is home I seem unable to even speak, let alone ask him to leave.

Trouble is I come from a broken home, I know what a crap life I had because my Dad left. I want to give my boys the best life possible that money can buy and at present the only way I see that happening is by staying with my marriage. My husband and I have planned policies, etc to ensure that our mortgage is paid off and we can give the boys a good education etc. All that I know will go if we split. I am not good at putting myself first, I have to think of my children and their future happiness surely.

There's the dilemma.

[Unregistered]

Hello, I have now finally 'given up' and am moving on from my husband. I tried very hard to keep our marriage good, went to relate counselling but he would not come. I realise now that if I had stayed he would have been happy with his life but I would not. It has been a very hard decision to make, it is not what I wanted but it is happening and there is no turning back.

In the end it is a hard decision to make especially when you have children but the little ones do know that the atmosphere is not good and I believe they become affected by this and it can damage them.

Good luck and I hope all goes well for you in the future.

[snuggle]

Thanks Unregistered for your reply. bit confused as 2 unregister so not sure if same person??
I am a little confused to your situation, you say you come from a broken home because your dad left and you had a crap life. The reason why you do not want to split your family!, I was brought up with an alcholic father, I used to hide in my room when the fights started and pray he would just leave us alone. I would beg my mum to leave him as we were all so unhappy, I had a brother and a sister also. After years of abuse my mother finally left him, we were floating we were free, we would breath again. Yes times were hard and money was tight, but you know what?, I was so glad to be away from the fights I did not care, we were finally happy.
I guess what I am trying to say to you is that the financial factor in a relationship should not be the base of staying or leaving, the real matter of importance is your childrens happiness, that does not come from unhappy parents. I remember being so happy to just see my mum being able to relax and not worry about my dads agression. It did teach me lessons in life as into the value of money, i have always been careful with money. It showed me how hard my mum tried to make a better life for us and now she has not remarried and she fully owns her own home, through her hard work and determination to be happy.
I hope you work things out, you have friends and family support which is always great to have, good luck.

[Unregistered Original]

From original poster.

Just to clarify for you Snuggle, when my dad left he left behind huge debts for my mum to deal with - he never paid any maintenance and yes my Mum did a good job she worked hard to keep a roof over our heads and give us what we wanted but because she had to work so hard we never saw her, she was also very bitter about the break up and never really got over it. I grew up surrounded by friends who had two parents and in my eyes a better life with holidays, nice cars, money to go on outings etc. They also had better opportunities in life, like going onto university something only a pipedream to me unless I could pay for it. Yes it is materialistic but the majority of life is these days even more so I think that when I was growing up - I don't want to risk my boys going through that.

I understand your views on getting away from a violent or abusive relationship and the relief it would be, but I am not in that situation, nor are we in any danger so my need to leave just because I am not happy seems very selfish, something I'm not good at.

To Unregistered who replied, I would welcome more information especially on what gave you the final push, how and what did you tell him - what was his reaction, did he not offer to make things better or try to change and if so how long did you give him. I have been telling my husband for over two years now that things need work but nothing has changed - he seems oblivious to our problems! Was your husband the same. Do you have children?

[Unregistered]

In answer to your questions......

I am in my early fifties, we dont have children, this is our second marriage and we have been together 13 years.

For around 4 years now I have tried to communicate with my husband about how our marriage was not working. But he chose to totally 'switch off'. He never made any effort to consider my feelings. He would come home in the evenings, watch tv eat his meal, not bother to chat or take interest in my day, then he would go to bed. I would chat with him, ask about his day, but he would just make short answers and say he was watching the tv.

His lack of interest in me was in lots of ways, he never touched me in bed unless I made the effort and months would pass and he was not interested, we would lie side by side, not even touching with our arms or legs. We never cuddled or communicated at all. He never ever made the effort. I was the one who would try, but after a while I was just not bothered.

I would tell him that things were not good, I was not happy, his reply to me was " Well I am so whats the problem". His attitude was he was happy and if I wasn't then I was the one with the problem.

Of course it is difficult to put into words 13 years together. But over the last 4 years I have thought, this cant go on, I am just living to work eat and sleep. We dont laugh together, we dont touch, we dont talk, we dont love. Belive me I tried and tried, I went to relate, asking him to come with me, he would not, he never even asked me what was said, showed no interest at all. He just carried on with his life.........he was happy..... and I became more and more unhappy.

So now we are divorcing. I dont regret making the decision at all, for although I have my fears and concerns for my future, I honestly think it cant be any worse than how it has been for the last years.

I dont think the grass is any greener but maybe it will be a different shade of green.

I have felt I was his housekeeper, and cook, that is how it has been. I am going to look after myself now.

His attitude to my asking for a divorce is strange, for he says "who is going to look after him". He is angry, and bitter and he said he will make me pay for this.......he is doing all he can to make sure that I suffer financially.

[Unregistered]

from Original

Just an little update.

My husband and I went out, got drunk, argued, he accused me of pushing him away and not loving him. I got annoyed because I feel I have spent the last two years trying to save our marriage, so I asked him to stay somewhere else for a few days to give me some space to think.

He got upset, worried about losing his kids, thinking I was kicking him out. I had never seem him that upset. I said it was not the end, merely the beginning of the repair of our marriage.

During his time away, we spoke every night, chit chat about the day, he said he had some time to think and reflect on our marriage. He came back a few nights later, we had a meal and a long chat about what was wrong. He agreed we needed to make changes, said he loved me and didn't want to lose me.

I thought I had finally broken the camel's back and things were going to change.

WRONG!! Nothing has changed, he hasn't even mentioned it, just gone back to normal routine.

Any suggestions on what I do next would be gratefully received, coz I don't know whether I can be bothered anymore.

[Liz]

Hi there,

I'm sure that something has changed for your husband, but that he probably doesn't know what to do about it. Changing the negative unhelpful behaviours in our lives can be really difficult. Counselling for couples isn't always the answer.

I would suggest that you look at doing some form of marriage enrichment together. This isn't counselling, but the opportunity to learn new skills and ways of behaving, to get a clearer idea of what you want for your marriage and how to find it. You'll find lots of resources here (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/servprov/).

For example, David and I did a Marriage Encounter weekend (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/servprov/marenhres/meang/) when we had been married a few years and had young children. we'd lost our way and become almost single people sharing a house together. There were hidden resentments and fears. On that weekend we learnt how to be really open with each other, to express our love for each other in a really constructive way. What we learnt on that weekend has changed our lives and helped us to live through difficulties like redundancy, post natal depression, family bereavement and mush more. We don't get any training for marriage before we get married and there is so much to learn - we can't just assume we will intuitively know what will make our marriage work.

Best wishes

Liz

[Unregistered]

Hi, just thought I'd update you on my situation now:

Nothing changed, he wasn't interested in trying any form of counselling or enrichment therapy, so I tried to change the way I was with him. I reinstated our sex life, was nice to him when he came in, made plans for us to go out, made areal effort to have a good christmas, etc.

This has made a change in him, he has started doing more DIY around the house, and takes the kids out of my way more often. This is not what I wanted, so I told him he was missing the point, that I wanted to be made to feel special but him doing special things for me and gave some examples. His answer was that it was not in him to do that and wasn't going to change.

I have changed, and now realised we have no future - I have woken up and know what I have to do......question is how?

How do you tell someone you don't love them anymore? That it is over after 16 years. What is this going to do to the children? I don't want to ruin their lives, but surely I'm entitled to a life as well with someone I love and someone who loves me enough to want to please me!

I am in turmoil just now, trying to decide how best to do this, I don't want the children to lose their father and would hope for an amicable split, but I can't see that happening, he is a very proud man and this is going to devastate him.

Any help anyone can give on how to do this a least painful way would be great.

[Liz]

Hello again,

It's good to hear from you, although your news seems mixed. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't find the changes in your husband more encouraging. If he can begin to change in that short time in response to you, don't you think that it's possible there might be more change in the future?

Ok, he said that he can't change and treat you the way you suggest, but then he may still be able to do so. How many times have you been challenged to do things differently and said that you can't and later thought it through and given it a try. Your husband's response may seem negative, but is probably better than him promising to change and not doing it.

I think that perhaps you need to acknowledge your differences and see where you can go from there. There's a good book about the different ways we experience love called The Five Love Languages (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/books/fivelovelang/). It might be worth a look before you give up all together.

I wonder also about this "right to happiness". I think it's a bit over-rated. Life throws all sorts of things at us and just because one situation is not bringing us happiness, what makes us think getting out of it is going to bring any more happiness. This forum is full of people who've bought that lie and regret it.

Contentment is a different story - that's about accepting what we can't change and seeing the positive in what we have. You say you don't love your man - is that a statement about your emotions or your will? I don't know about you, but when I made my marriage vows I knew it wasn't going to be easy and at times it hasn't been, but the joy has actually come through working through the differences and learning to accepts each other as we are. Love is first and foremost a choice and a decision, which wants the best for the other even if it costs us dearly. Sometimes love brigs us warm emotions, sometimes deep pain. How much would you give up to show love to your children? Does your husband deserve less? If so, why?

I know it’s really tough not to experience that your husband loves you, to believe that he’s just taking you for granted, but is the answer to walk away? Will it really bring you the happiness you seek?

Liz